Spoiler Discussion Thread

[thegirlsleuth]

I think more than likely she just wanted to go to the wrap party but who knows, seems like she wasn't at the "pre-party" at Emily's house like the rest, but she could have just had other stuff going on who know.

I just don't want anymore masks on this show of any kind, I wasn't exactly happy about Curtis even though I adore Echo and think he does a good job, I just think the show was better when the team wasn't so big.

That's true--she did work almost a full season and so going to the wrap party makes sense. Thanks for helping me reclaim my pink cloud!

I'm with you on the masks.

[spartan]

I'm sure it's her, but it is surely a ghost or flashback

[Midnight Lullaby]

I wouldn't say that KC being at the party is a sign she might be the one filming in the finale. She lives in Vancouver and at the party there were people like Emily's mom, best friend, Steve's bff Drew, other people the cast knows like Carina, Jarret..So it's not "Arrow" people only. I would have been surprised if she wasn't there since she isn't shy when there's the chance to go to events like that one..

[tv echo]

Maybe the identity of the new Black Canary will be a cliffhanger - we won't find out until S5 premieres in October.  Not only would that give people something (else) to speculate about over the summer (like the grave mystery), but it would also give the EPs additional time to decide what to do.   After all, they don't start shooting 501 until July (though they'd have to start writing the script months in advance).

 

Then they would have several options: (1) make her Sara (or future Sara), (2) make her Madison McLaughlin's character, (3) make her a brand new character played by a new actress (yet to be cast) [raising the spectre of a dreaded love triangle in S5, unless she's moved to LoT], (4) make her a future Black Canary, or, less likely, (5) bring back KC as Laurel's BC.  

Edited April 17, 2016 by tv echo

[looptab]

Maybe she's Laurel and Oliver's daughter from the future! J/k

[bijoux]

NM posted this 2 weeks ago.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BDqkhKGJRv4/

I don't think we've seen DD here. Having his TV wife named after his real wife makes it really difficult to decode his comment. Is show Ruve really some source of power for DD or is it just showing appreciation for his spouse?

[DeadZeus]

Does every season have to end with a riot in the city and Oliver fighting the big bad?

[kismet]

Maybe the identity of the new Black Canary will be a cliffhanger - we won't find out until S5 premieres in October.  Not only would that give people something (else) to speculate about over the summer (like the grave mystery), but it would also give the EPs additional time to decide what to do.   After all, they don't start shooting 501 until July (though they'd have to start writing the script months in advance).

 

Then they would have several options: (1) make her Sara (or future Sara), (2) make her Madison McLaughlin's character, (3) make her a brand new character played by a new actress (yet to be cast) [raising the spectre of a dreaded love triangle in S5, unless she's moved to LoT], (4) make her a future Black Canary, or, less likely, (5) bring back KC as Laurel's BC.  

I think this is possible... except option 5, that option is dead, dead, dead. If they do #3, I do not think they will go the love triangle route, I think they have recognized that as a bad story option.

 

I think they are going to let the dust settle after LL/BC's death and see to what extent there is a desire to have BC on the show. It also depends if DC/WB want to have BC on the show. So a lot of this may be driven by TPTB that are not MG & co.

 

I don't think they need to have another mask full time on show or even as a frequently recurring. And frankly, I hope they don't have her heavily recurring. I don't even want Mr. Terrific, so I'm not excited if this girl or even Nyssa stick around too much. But, BC is part of the GA mythos, so perhaps they are laying the groundwork to have a BC character in the future that is separate from the Lance family drama, and able to be there when needed to promote whatever agenda is needed to be promoted.

 

My fear is that this new girl might be connected to LoA & MM, and frankly I'd rather they create some random new BC then make us deal with LoA drama or MM pretzeling again.

[dtissagirl]

Does every season have to end with a riot in the city and Oliver fighting the big bad?

 

Yes.

[Chaser]

I don't think it's a cliffhanger. That leads to a hiatus of 'It's Laurel/KC' and then a hiatus of the Shrowrunners trying to convince the audience that death means something. Pretty sure they are sick of that

[Sakura12]

From those filming pics it looks like the future that the Legends saw is coming true. Rip said Star City was attacked in 2016 and that led to future 2046 they were at.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Sakura12

[bijoux]

But SC is attacked every year. It's an honored event since 2013. I don't think it necessarily leads to that version of 2046.

[ComicFan777]

I think the pivotal event Team Arrow would have to change to avoid what we saw in 2046 is the invasion by Grant Wilson 15 years before 2046 - when Diggle and Lance dies.  I think everything would have to basically remain the same up until then to ensure that Connor is born and is the man that he becomes.

[Morrigan2575]

Time Travel gives me a headache :)

[Guest]

The time travel, alternate universe stuff is one of the reasons I don't watch The Flash anymore. 

[Thundercatmary]

Oh I wonder if Sara comes back to see Laurels grave, I did see a pic of her and Lance there, and stays to help with the situation in the finale. Not sure about the timing with LOT but I think it's possible since we know she does come back to Star City at some point after Laurels death. SO I guess the question is when she gets back to Star City and h ow long they stay.

[Velocity23]

Gimme all things Bratva!

[bijoux]

In another part of the interview, it's all but confirmed that the flashbacks will end with next season. Woot.

I love this photo. It's so bad.

[Primal Slayer]

I feel like they said the same thing they said about last seasons flashbacks not being received well. If only they would've learned that not every episode needs to have a flashback, s3/4 could've had stronger flashback stories.

[lemotomato]

Gimme all things Bratva!

I like that the article had to remind us who Poppy Taiana is.

[kes0704]

The flashbacks in S3 were a chore to get through and it seems like the challenge for the writers this year was too make them even more....boring?

The S4 flashbacks "might" have been better if I found any of the supporting characters populating them Interesting to watch...but I don't and so I don't particularly care what happens to them.

[Lady Calypso]

They really lost their way with the flashbacks, probably a little during last season, but moreso this season. It was like they didn't know what to do with flashback!Oliver. They tried too hard as well to connect the flashbacks to the present day (stupid, stupid magic stuff being introduced). It would have been better if this season had been Bratva and then Oliver spent his last year on the island. Less flashbacks for next season, but we would have gotten to see Oliver be the vigilante that we saw on the island in the pilot. 

 

But no, of course Oliver will probably be in Russia for most of the season. Of course the flashbacks weren't received well. He left the island! That's not what I really expected when I started the series. The Hong Kong stuff, as much as I enjoyed Matseo and Katana, was not needed. Bratva should have been the only off-island adventure, in my opinion. 

 

Also, I miss the flashback hair wig. There, I said it. Oliver cutting his hair this season doesn't make him look like the still young man he was supposed to be. He looks like Oliver from season 4. 

 

I have many, many issues with the flashbacks from the last two seasons, ok? They could have been so, so good. But knowing that they end in season 5 makes me happy. 

Edited April 17, 2016 by Lady Calypso

[Guest]

Bratva flashbacks. Color me shocked. Shocked, I tell you!

 

I do think the flashbacks have seriously lost their way. They started becoming tedious back in s2, although they had the saving grace of Slade/Manu who made anything watchable. I do think they could have cut the flashbacks down to episodes when they're really needed. We really don't need a flashback in every episode. It's become a tiresome storytelling device that kinda feels like they're doing it for the sake of it.

 

If they bring back Anatoli and Oliver finally goes darker like we've been waiting for, flashbacks might finally be good again.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Guest

[Sakura12]

Oh I wonder if Sara comes back to see Laurels grave, I did see a pic of her and Lance there, and stays to help with the situation in the finale. Not sure about the timing with LOT but I think it's possible since we know she does come back to Star City at some point after Laurels death. SO I guess the question is when she gets back to Star City and h ow long they stay.

 

PB was on the LoT set not the Arrow the set. Unless they filmed something the same day for Arrow. I think the people here are lucky, it doesn't look like Sara's going to be in the finale. CL went on a road trip with a friend right after LoT ended, then during the finale filming she was in Utah filming something else, then she went to Cochella. 

[wonderwall]

I get that we're finally getting Bratva Oliver and some of you are excited but... I say this with a heavy heart:

 

Edited April 17, 2016 by wonderwall

[Guest]

I get that we're finally getting Bratva Oliver and some of you are excited but... I say this with a heavy heart:

 

 

Well, that goes without saying at this point. This is Arrow. LMAO.

[statsgirl]

I think the only explanation for the awfulness of the flashbacks this season is that they originally intended them to be in Russia, which is why Oliver was getting on a Russian boat, but then for some reason they switched to island flashbacks, maybe because they wanted an island magic story to propel the totem DD has in the present.  (STAY AWAY FROM MAGIC ARROW WRITERS)

 

It would have made more sense to have had Oliver back on the island next season.

[wonderwall]

Well, that goes without saying at this point. This is Arrow. LMAO.

I knowwwwww but people seem to be so excited lol

[dtissagirl]

I'll be psyched if Anatoly comes back next season, but I have zero expectations of Bratva flashbacks being any different in terms of excitement. Maaaybe if they make Bratva also present time villains, but even then they run the risk of repeating the same problem of every year: Oliver's severe memory problems between October and February. For the love of god, dude, see a neurologist.

And it'll still be useless background story that doesn't matter in anyway to Oliver's character development. He's so far removed from who Oliver was in the pilot, that learning how he became the Oliver from the pilot legit feels like wasting production money in a part of the narrative that goes towards five years and hundred episodes ago.

[Morrigan2575]

I'm excited that next season is the last of the flashbacks...woohoo!

[wonderwall]

I'm excited that next season is the last of the flashbacks...woohoo!

Which begs the question... When do you guys see Arrow ending? 

I think if SA gets another big film role next year he might call it quits after S6 to pursue his movie career... 

 

All I know is we're never going to see another Felicity Smoak again after this and it makes me sad :( (unless EBR makes appearances in other superhero shows like Flash, LoT, Supergirl)

[thegirlsleuth]

I think it will be interesting to see if they can balance a full dark Oliver in the flashbacks with a current Oliver who's grown and re-entered the light--I don't believe these writers will pull it off. I think they will flinch from making Oliver a truly bad guy despite the fact that a) the real life Bratva are not playful puppies, and b) Bratva Oliver in Season One hinted at a cold blooded killer. Even as a viewer, I think it will produce some cognitive dissonance to see this "old" Oliver. With better writers I'd be intrigued, but I don't believe these folks will pull off anything that nuanced.

[Morrigan2575]

Which begs the question... When do you guys see Arrow ending? 

I think if SA gets another big film role next year he might call it quits after S6 to pursue his movie career... 

 

All I know is we're never going to see another Felicity Smoak again after this and it makes me sad :( (unless EBR makes appearances in other superhero shows like Flash, LoT, Supergirl)

If TMNT2 manages to launch him into the movie market ala Chris Pratt, Arrow will end when his contract is up. If he doesn't get much traction outside of TMNT franchise he'll probably renew his contract for another 2 years.

[wonderwall]

I think it will be interesting to see if they can balance a full dark Oliver in the flashbacks with a current Oliver who's grown and re-entered the light--I don't believe these writers will pull it off. I think they will flinch from making Oliver a truly bad guy despite the fact that a) the real life Bratva are not playful puppies, and b) Bratva Oliver in Season One hinted at a cold blooded killer. Even as a viewer, I think it will produce some cognitive dissonance to see this "old" Oliver. With better writers I'd be intrigued, but I don't believe these folks will pull off anything that nuanced.

And it would be a win win... The people who want Oliver to be a cold blooded murderer will have flashback Oliver (aka cool Oliver) and those who appreciate his journey and character development can enjoy present day GA Oliver.

[manbearpig]

I'd actually be interested to see if the CW wants to keep the show on even if Amell leaves. I don't necessarily think that should happen, but it's possible.

[apinknightmare]

I think it'll be interesting to see what happens. Because if he does get some traction from TMNT, he'll have limited time to film another movie over the hiatus, and won't be available for nearly a year after that. If Turtles is a success, and they want to do another movie, then he'd probably film that over the 5th season's hiatus. Which wouldn't leave him any time to film anything else, unless he picks up a small role for a movie that shoots over his Christmas break or something. 

 

If he does want to leave when his contract is up, I'd like them to just end the show. 

 

To keep this on topic, I'm looking forward to Bratva flashbacks if for no other reason than there's the possibility that I might actually be interested in them. 

[ComicFan777]

If SA didn't want to do Arrow anymore, I think it would be awesome if they could develop a spin off with Connor (John Diggle Jr) GA, maybe he could start a legion of superheroes in the future timeline with old man Diggle being their mentor. 

Edited April 17, 2016 by ComicFan777

[nksarmi]

Arrow should not go on without SA - a spinoff? Sure. But not Arrow.

 

I'm on the edge with Arrow right now.  Technically this season has been much better than last, but it hasn't been good enough to make up for last. Flashbacks in Russia sound promising but another BC or a teenage cast member does not.  I might be out at the end of this season - only to come back for the big cross over event and/or wedding. 

[DeadZeus]

wait its confirmed the flashbacks for next season will be in Russia? Come on.. Even dark Oliver wont save the crappyness for me if this is true... "spent 5 years on a hellish island with only one goal.. survive" but spends half of that time OF the island able to go home whenever he wants.. he even was home for crying out loud!

Edited April 17, 2016 by DeadZeus

[lemotomato]

wait its confirmed the flashbacks for next season will be in Russia? Come on.. Even dark Oliver wont save the crappyness for me if this is true... "spent 5 years on a hellish island with only one goal.. survive" but spends half of that time OF the island able to go home whenever he wants.. he even was home for crying out loud!

How exactly did you think Oliver would get the Bratva tattoo and captain status if he didn't spend time in Russia?

[apinknightmare]

wait its confirmed the flashbacks for next season will be in Russia? Come on.. Even dark Oliver wont save the crappyness for me if this is true... "spent 5 years on a hellish island with only one goal.. survive" but spends half of that time OF the island able to go home whenever he wants.. he even was home for crying out loud!

 

He explained last season why he didn't go home. 

[DeadZeus]

How exactly did you think Oliver would get the Bratva tattoo and captain status if he didn't spend time in Russia?

By having a russian on the island, like anatoli in season 2? If things turned out differently he could have spent more time on the island, learned russian from him and got the tattoo... Dno why he has to leave the island for this... As i said, its pretty stupid that Oliver was stuck on a hellish island as he says so himself but he wasn't...

 And he defintely didn't dream of his rescue

[Thundercatmary]

Oliver still struggles with his self worth so for me it's entirely in character that he would hesitate and even delay returning home, just my opinion.

[dtissagirl]

s i said, its pretty stupid that Oliver was stuck on a hellish island as he says so himself but he wasn't...

The saga sell with the words "hellish island" hasn't been around since S2. If you're clinging to what Oliver was saying back then -- sorry to inform, he was lying. To you and I and the entire audience as well as the other characters.

Although technically he's been in Lian Yu for 3 years and Hong Kong ISLAND for a year, so all they need to do is send him to a hellish Russian island and presto, 5 years in islands.

[foreverevolving]

I think people are taking the Island thing way too literal. you can be in a city or whatever and still be on an Island, not necessarily an actual one, but potentially a physical one and/or an emotional one.

I think that's what the term Island really means.

[lemotomato]

By having a russian on the island, like anatoli in season 2? If things turned out differently he could have spent more time on the island, learned russian from him and got the tattoo... Dno why he has to leave the island for this... As i said, its pretty stupid that Oliver was stuck on a hellish island as he says so himself but he wasn't...

 And he defintely didn't dream of his rescue

So if I'm understanding correctly, you think that the tattoo and captain title are just bestowed to someone because they do one big thing, like save another gangster's life? Because that's not how it works. The Bratva are basically Russian Mafia. Members have to earn their way through the ranks, and that would require Oliver to be where the mob organization would be working. Cities in Russia, probably, not nearly inhospitable islands in the North China sea. (All the groups we've seen on Lian Yu are miltary/mercenaries. Not gangsters.)

Edited April 18, 2016 by lemotomato

[Thundercatmary]

I know it might be against popular opinion but I actually hope they show Oliver as pretty brutal in the season 5 FB, like almost to the point of irredeemable bad.  I think it would fit with the whole Bratva back story plus serve as a good contrast to the present time. I might be more interested in the FB if i had any investment of them and Oliver being concerned that certain things will come out and what people will think etc is interesting to me. 

 

I mean we all know Oliver is not that person anymore but lets be real Oliver did some pretty shady things in the past, I think it's ok to show some of that in the FB.

[AyChihuahua]

I wouldn't actually have a huge problem with him getting whatever from the Bratva just for saving Anatoly's life, bc Anatoly is, I believe, a pakhan. I mean I'm on board that it was obvious he left the island as far back as S1, and I do think he actually joins the Bratva v. just getting a title and a tattoo, but I'm fine handwaving a lot of whatever he gets. Especially bc I don't want to see him OR Anatoly, who I like a lot, behave in a way that real Bratva would behave, e.g., sex-trafficking. Sex-trafficking of women and kids, is, IMO, one of the very worst things that exists in real life, and I cannot handle it in my fiction.

 

Drugs, guns, whatevs. Just no human/sex-trafficking.

I know it might be against popular opinion but I actually hope they show Oliver as pretty brutal in the season 5 FB, like almost to the point of irredeemable bad.  I think it would fit with the whole Bratva back story plus serve as a good contrast to the present time. I might be more interested in the FB if i had any investment of them and Oliver being concerned that certain things will come out and what people will think etc is interesting to me. 

 

I mean we all know Oliver is not that person anymore but lets be real Oliver did some pretty shady things in the past, I think it's ok to show some of that in the FB.

Tbh, I feel really confident that's not going to happen. I guess everyone's definition of irredeemable is different, but if he knowingly murders a kid or lets someone be raped or gets into sex-trafficking, that's WAY too much. And, based on what we've seen so far, I just don't think the EPs have the guts to take him all that dark, so I don't even think they'll go dark enough to bother me, and I'm somewhat squeamish when it comes to superheroes. Hey, kill bad guys all day long, but don't kill the good guys (the occasional threat is fine).

 

Plus, he just wasn't THAT bad in the pilot. If he was THAT bad, he would have killed Quentin or some other good guy. He's never, in either flashbacks or present-day, killed a GOOD guy. Not even a random cop.  

 

For the record, I'm fine with that.

[ComicFan777]

It's hard to imagine the current FB Oliver transitioning to badass killer Oliver, especially if whatever happens to Poppy is what sets him off.  I'm sure that he is supposed to be at his darkest during Bratva, but it seems like a pretty big jump since he doesn't seem all that cold/ruthless this FB season. 

[Thundercatmary]

Oh for sure, I wouldn't want it to go that far, not irredeemable just close.