Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Guest]

Schism could work for breaking up both the team and HIVE. *bites nails*

Edited April 9, 2016 by Guest

[Morrigan2575]

I rally hope not. I hope it's referencing the breakup of HIVE.

I like this better...

[Princess Vanellope]

Apparently the Billy Joel song is "Tomorrow is Today"

[statsgirl]

We have a schism in 323 between Oliver and Diggle.that carried into the s4 episodes.  Not looking forward to another one.

 

Is there any other schism that would be new?  Malcolm has split from the LoA, it looks like DD is having problems with HIVE, and Thea has disowned Malcolm.  And Felicity is currently split from Oliver.

Edited April 9, 2016 by statsgirl

[apinknightmare]

Apparently the Billy Joel song is "Tomorrow is Today"

I'm pretty sure he wrote that song about a suicide attempt.

Can't wait.

[Guest]

I'm gonna go with it being about breaking down HIVE but maybe it will only be the start of it and it carries over into s5, much like the LOA storyline crossed from s3 to s4.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Guest

[jay741982]

Maybe Diggle has to leave for reasons that aren't Team Arrow related? I really don't want a Goddamn Cliffhanger. No Felicity being Snatched by her dad or Forced to leave

I'm pretty sure he wrote that song about a suicide attempt.

Can't wait.

Maybe Diggle kills his brother and distraught with himself he leaves Star City?

[apinknightmare]

Maybe they think they defeat and disband HIVE, but the last shot is of Damien in his cavernous underground corn bunker, where he's huddled up with another idol and nursing himself back to health with magic and high fructose corn syrup.

[Guest]

LOL. It's just that they implied a few times that HIVE is more than Damien, that there's a bigger network of people he works with/for, and I don't think stopping him is going to end HIVE completely. I kind of feel like we've only just started the HIVE thing tbh.

The word HIVE is starting to look weird now. Haha.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Guest

[looptab]

I think there will be no more Team, just Oliver alone in the bunker. .

[Princess Vanellope]

I'm pretty sure he wrote that song about a suicide attempt.

Can't wait.

Well....that sounds like a super chipper song to represent the finale of the "lighter season"

[jay741982]

I think there will be no more Team, just Oliver alone in the bunker. .

Yeah no thanks Walking Dead pissed me off I don't want another of my shows pissing me off

[Princess Vanellope]

The lyrics:

I've been livin' for the moment

But I just can't have my way

And I'm afraid to go to sleep

'Cause tomorrow is today

People tell me life is sweeter

But I don't hear what they say

Nothing comes to change my life

So tomorrow is today

I don't care to know the hour

'Cause it's passing anyway

I don't have to see tomorrow

'Cause I saw it yesterday

So I listen for an answer

But the feeling seems to stay

And what's the use of always dreaming

If tomorrow is today

Still I'm waiting for the morning

But it feels so far away

And you don't need the love I'm giving

So tomorrow is today

Oh, my. Goin' to the river

Gonna take a ride and the Lord will deliver me

Made my bed, now I'm gonna lie in it

If you don't come, I'm sure gonna die in it

Too late. Too much given

I've seen a lot of life and I'm damn sick of livin' it

I keep hopin' that you will pass my way

And some day if your dreams are leavin' you

I'll still believe in you

I don't care to know the hour

'Cause it's passing anyway

I don't have to see tomorrow

'Cause I saw it yesterday

Though I'm living and I'm singing

And although my hands still play

Soon enough it will all be over

'Cause tomorrow is today

[jay741982]

Wasn't there some one on Twitter who posted something that has to be translated where they said reportedly the second half of this season would be depressing?

[Guest]

Well, to be fair, s3 ended on a happy note for Oliver. I can't really see them doing that for the end of s4 too. IDK. Just a feeling.

[apinknightmare]

No team though? I don't know if I buy it. How many times do all of these people need to figure out what they're doing and why? Good lord, it's exhausting.

[Chaser]

The Team may not be broken, they may just be separated. 

[jay741982]

No team though? I don't know if I buy it. How many times do all of these people need to figure out what they're doing and why? Good lord, it's exhausting.

Thank our lovely writing team who has Oliver regress every year cause MG gets a boner from Oliver being a idiot.

Well, to be fair, s3 ended on a happy note for Oliver. I can't really see them doing that for the end of s4 too. IDK. Just a feeling.

UGH I get real tired of the dark depression of this show, I hope it ends on a happy note this year. But I can see these fuckheads having Dig kill his brother, then disgusted with himself leave town. Felicity disappears courtesy of her father. And who knows what with Thea and Oliver cause these writers sit around thinking how can we make them more miserable Per AK

[dtissagirl]

The Team may not be broken, they may just be separated.

If we go by schism = division after a difference in opinion, it could mean two separate teams instead of no team?

...Did you know there's a schism in the pronunciation of the word schism? The things you learn on Wikipedia in the middle of the night. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schism#cite_note-1

[Guest]

I don't think the team will break up. I just don't think it will be happy joy joy either.

[Genki]

If "Schism" is referring to Team Arrow I hope it's due to outside circumstances, I don't want fighting, between the Team....Actually, I really don't want it to refer to them at all.

 

Maybe they are separating the factions of H.I.V.E. maybe Ruve and Darhk and separating with DD breaking off form the main body, I mean he must be pissed that they were willing to let him rot in jail, once he was de-powered. They may even want to help TA de-power him again.

 

Warning: Wild speculation ahead based.

 

If the SC Bay was the only source of the algae the supports the corn palace place, maybe they will try to flood SC to mass produce it. Episode 4.22 is titled after the Flood...could be literal ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[apinknightmare]

As long as this difference of opinion isn't about killing bad guys, I guess I might be okay with that, BECAUSE WE NEED TO START KILLING BAD GUYS, OLIVER.

 

If the SC Bay was the only source of the algae the supports the corn palace place, maybe they will try to flood SC to mass produce it. Episode 4.22 is titled after the Flood...could be literal ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think there's going to be a flood for sure, but I think that's how HIVE is planing to kickstart Genesis.

[jay741982]

As long as this difference of opinion isn't about killing bad guys, I guess I might be okay with that, BECAUSE WE NEED TO START KILLING BAD GUYS, OLIVER.

Agreed he says he knows Damien has to die per the Flash forward now present time

[way2interested]

I'm kind of holding off really speculating with the titles until Thursday when we get 420's plot. Since s3 attempted to stuff a whole Oliver-is-evil-and-in-the-League in about 2 episodes, I have no idea where they could go with this.

 

Although my initial thought was more of the team individually tackling down their specific bad guys that seem to be there for the rest of the season (Oliver/Lance vs. Darhk/HIVE, Diggle vs. Diggle, Thea vs. Malcolm, and Felicity vs. her dad if he is back), kind of a divide and conquer strategy with the team trying to cause a schism among the bad guys, kind of like how Unthinkable was really about Oliver's strategy to defeat Slade. Or, maybe it's Darhk's plan to cause a schism between the team in a divide and conquer strategy of his own. But, hey, that's just me grasping at straws to try to be excited. 

Edited April 9, 2016 by way2interested

[Coop33]

Maybe Team Arrow will exist in some form, but not with the usual players. It doesn't make sense for Oliver to quit, and we have those tidbits about Lance relying on Team Arrow. Maybe Oliver works with Curtis and Lance over the summer while everyone else is absent for some reason or another?  Felicity goes off with her dad, Diggle goes after Andy. Idk why Thea would leave, so maybe she stays too.

 

Not that I would want that to happen at all, but I do think after our happy ending last season we're due for a downer at the end of this one.

[lemotomato]

"Schism" also has a lot of religious context tied to it. When the Catholic Church split into Roman and Orthodox branches, it was called The Great Schism. After "Genesis" and "Lost in the Flood", that's a lot of Bible imagery.

Edited April 9, 2016 by lemotomato

[Morrigan2575]

I'm pretty sure he wrote that song about a suicide attempt.

Can't wait.

Yeah, i just found out the story and heard the song when Sirius had it's Billy Joel station for a couple of months. I liked the song but not the meaning.

Granted, I stick to my belief that MG just means the song title not the lyrics/meanings. Which could make this either a positive or negative sign.

[MariaHill]

 

...they implied a few times that HIVE is more than Damien, that there's a bigger network of people he works with/for, and I don't think stopping him is going to end HIVE completely.

 

Hail HIVE. (Appropriate icon is appropriate)

[ComicFan777]

Did the mother box DD have ever come back into play?  I only remember seeing it once and I don't remember if they ever explained what it does or what role it has in their grand scheme...maybe I missed it.

[BkWurm1]

We still have five episodes and now all I'm thinking about is how it is going to be a very long summer. :0

[bijoux]

As always, I really doubt the song has any meaning here beyond the title. As for the episode title, it does end on an actual crater, so I'm guessing it could be just that. Or the team giving the impression of splitting up, being at crosshairs and cross purposes, playing their oponents that way.

[Velocity23]

 

When we killed off Tommy at the end of season one, we did that not just for the effect that it had on Oliver, but the effect that it had on everybody -- particularly Laurel, which we thought would be really, really powerful," Guggenheim continued. "They'll see how the death of Laurel very specifically affects Diggle and it really draws Diggle's story forward for the remainder of the season. In addition, you'll see how it affects Lance, and you'll see how it affects Thea -- including a big decision that Thea will make at the end of the season.

I am still wondering about Thea at the end of the season.

[looptab]

Now I'm glad about all those "Dig&Laurel BFFs" moments - they needed to build that to sustain Dig's story. Maybe Thea decides to go to college, because she wants to become a lawyer, hahah.

[bijoux]

Well, honestly, I've needed for Thea's motivation for being on the team explained for a while. I don't need her to leave, but if it means she reevaluates it, I'm all for it.

[tv echo]

Meaning of "Tomorrow Is Today" (named the #1 bleakest Billy Joel song in 2012 by this site)...

“Tomorrow is Today” is adapted from a suicide note that Joel wrote in 1970 when he drank a bottle of furniture polish in an attempt to kill himself. It’s an explanation of his frame of mind, why a twenty year-old decided that “soon enough it will all be over.”
 

The title of the song has two meanings. The first is that “tomorrow” — the great beyond, the big sleep — would be coming “today,” plenty early. The second meaning of the title, and the one explored by the words of the suicide note/lyrics, is that each passing day had become identical for the musician. “I don’t need to know the hour / because it’s passing anyways.” With no sense of efficacy or esteem, living each moment bereft of meaning, Joel has no need or interest in seeing what the next day brings.
 

The best efforts of the people around him, who tell him “life is sweeter,” make no impact. He submits to his suicidal impulses. In the centerpiece verse of the song, descends to “the river,” where he says his farewell: “Made my bed / I’m gonna lie in it / If you don’t come / I’m sure gonna die in it.”
 

The song ends with perhaps the most haunting, conclusive words Joel ever wrote: “Though I’m living and I’m singing / And although my hands still play / Soon enough it will all be over / ‘Cause tomorrow is today”

Of course, Joel survived his suicide attempt and went on to a personally tumultuous but commercially successful career. It’s strange to think how much the world would have lost if his attempt had worked. Though he was rescued from poison, he was never fully rescued from the melancholy and demons that made him drink it. And we witness that pain linger for decades, speckling his albums with the loneliest, most disheartened, and bleakest songs you’ll ever hear dismissed as “adult alternative.”

http://earnthis.net/the-top-10-bleakest-billy-joel-songs/

 

So S4 will likely end on a downer, leaving everyone depressed.  Then when S5 debuts in October, it'll be the lowest rated season premiere ever and everyone will blame different things for the low ratings - can't wait... :{

Edited April 9, 2016 by tv echo

[bijoux]

What were the songs for the previous season finales? I'm 99% sure that the fact that it's about a suicide will not reflect on the tone of the episode. 

 

Donna is definitely in the episode, CR confirmed she was at the table read. I'm also pretty certain that Sara will be back on Arrow in 4x22. PB is wearing the same thing in his photo with CL and JB, as well as in the one CR posted yesterday. Those final episodes usually span a day, so it makes sense that Lance would be wearing the same clothes in 422 and 423. It makes less sense that he would have the same thing on LoT.

[apinknightmare]

What were the songs for the previous season finales? I'm 99% sure that the fact that it's about a suicide will not reflect on the tone of the episode. 

 

I think it's probably got something to do with whoever's (Malcom's/Damien's/HIVE's, who knows) last ditch attempt at a Star Citypocalypse. 

[Guest]

I'm interested to see what happens with Thea. They've had the bloodlust theme for a while and the idea that she's on the team for the adrenaline rush/thrill of it all. But then there was all that stuff with Anarky which was left hanging and I'm wondering if they're gonna take her to a darker place maybe? IDK. That didn't feel completely finished to me.

 

Also DR once mentioned about Andy possibly coming back for s5 so where will that relationship go? Will Andy be saved or is he just a bad guy now? I like that not everyone can be redeemed. They need to remember that sometimes. 

[Velocity23]

Werent the titles of finales usually references in the show, said by somebody in the show? So i am wondering if the title of finale is said by Darkh/Malcolm or HIVE.

[ComicFan777]

I wouldn't be surprised if the season ends (opposite of the start of the season) with Diggle going off to hunt down Andy, Thea running off to hunt down Malcolm, and Oliver and Felicity left behind to take care of the city after the team takes down DD.

[bijoux]

I can't remember whether they referred to a sacrifice in the S1 finale, but season 2 and 3 definitely mentioned episode titles in the episodes themselves. Just don't have a replay of beacon of hope.

I wouldn't be surprised if the season ends (opposite of the start of the season) with Diggle going off to hunt down Andy, Thea running off to hunt down Malcolm, and Oliver and Felicity left behind to take care of the city after the team takes down DD.

This is I would be fine with. Hopefully with Thea and Dig remaining in contact with Oliver and Felicity and not going completely rogue. Although I'm more inclined towards just one of them (Dig) leaving.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I have a bad feeling about Dig and Thea. I think Oliver will be the one to take what happened best of all of them, Felicity and Lance will come around but I don't know how Dig will handle to betrayal of his brother and his feeling of guilt. And Thea has gone off the rails so much this season I'm nit expecting a level headed reaction.

I'm still for Oliver and Felicity being back together by the end of the season but I think Dig and Thea could leave the team/disappear after they get revenge on Darhk.

But I'm happy GB is involved directly!

[Velocity23]

 

Edward Fyers: [about Shado] Tell me, Mr. Queen. Are you prepared to sacrifice your freedom for her.

[kills Fyers with an arrow]

Oliver Queen: Guess so

 

Oliver Queen: I spoke to Malcolm.

Moira Queen: You what? He could have killed you. He killed your father.

Oliver Queen: No, he didn't. After the "Gambit" went down, Dad and I both made it to the life raft. Then we drifted, for days. In the end, there wasn't enough food and water for both of us. So he shot himself in the head.

Moira Queen: I don't want to hear this.

Oliver Queen: He sacrificed himself so that I could live. Do you really think that I could go on living knowing that you sacrificed thousands more in my name? Mom. Please. You have to help me stop Malcolm. We need to know where the device is.

... Quotes from s1 finale (Sacrifice)

[way2interested]

I just feel like the title wouldn't refer to something that only happens at the end of the episode, if it is referencing a schism in the team that separates them in the hiatus. It can additionally refer to it, like how Sacrifice could also refer to Tommy's death or how Unthinkable was also used to refer to Felicity's thoughts of the possibility of them being a thing or how they did the intro monologue right at the end of 323, but the I feel like the title has to predominantly refer to something else.

[dtissagirl]

I wonder if that thing about the season premiere being a guideline to the entire season is still happening. Berlanti got story credit for 401 too, and he's the one that likes ~symbolism the most among all the writers.

 

The season started with a team schism, and a seemingly united HIVE. Maybe that's the point here?

 

They also need to wrap up the blood family vs. found family thing somehow, and they also need to address the fact that Oliver made that "I'm going to kill him" vow to Barry in the flash forward.

Edited April 9, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah, I've yet to see any of the Billy Joel song meanings play out/be a part of the episode.

I mean seriously MG gave Only The Good Die Young (a song about losing your virginity/sex) to an episode about Thea dying from the Blood Lust.

[nksarmi]

I am still wondering about Thea at the end of the season.

 

I would be so VERY happy if Thea walked away from it all to find Roy and this time she told him she isn't running away from something - she just wanted to be with him and see if they could happy in a "normal" life.  I mean Oliver got the summer of love with Felicity - why shouldn't Thea?  At the start of the season, something can happen that makes Thea go back but not in a bad way with Roy - I still want them to end the show together assuming they are both alive.

 

And on that note, I wouldn't mind if Diggle left on an Argus mission or went underground to protect baby Sara while Lyla was working on something.  Then he can come back next season and take a job as Head of Security at Palmer Tech but be hesitant to go out in the field with Oliver because Lyla is pregnant with soon to be John Diggle Jr.  I love Diggle but I am totally ok if he takes a more strategic or tactical role on the show to let Oliver shine on his own again.

 

*And I don't mean to say that Diggle never goes into the field with Oliver, but I think this show just doesn't do ensemble fight scenes well.  That one training session with the four of them stands out to me as the absolute best they have done all year.  I would be happy if Diggle started planning the missions but not necessarily going out unless Oliver really needed him, Felicity and occasionally Curtis provides tech support, and Thea is the only one out with Oliver for most missions.  It's not about Oliver going all rogue or anything but about going back to what the show did well stunt-wise.

 

But anyway, the team could be "fractured" at the end of the season without it being a bad thing. 

Edited April 9, 2016 by nksarmi

[Belinea]

After I (like the horrible person I apparently can be) checked out the website of the paparazzi guy, I am convinced that the young girl will be another BC. Because they made it very clear that it is not Felicity.

I don't even get why people assume it will be Felicity. At this point the hate is really going to far. Yes, she made decisions that allow you to argue but people assume that it is her fault alone that Laurel is dead. It really angers me because they behave as though Laurel was always the most important character and her flaws were intentional. 

 

I get that people are upset but the way some are behaving should really make you question their sanity. Yes, MG sometimes writes stupid storylines (take your pick) but that is not reason to wish cancer on him and his family.

 

I hope that the team will stick together because we already had that situation last season. Maybe they will break away from doing stuff in the shadows and embraces the light more. I am curious whether we will get a final episodes promo to see where the story will go. I am also curious when Oliver will finally end up in Russia. As for the O/F relationship, I hope that they will somehow find a way to be partners again. Doesn't even have to be romantic for me right now. But I'd like everyone on the team to be a unit for once. That might be one way to honor your fallen friend. That being said, I hope someone ends Andy. I don't know whether I want it to be Diggle.

I don't think that the lyrics will completely fit the story but the title basically says that the future is today. So who knows maybe they will live for now instead of for tomorrow. 

[jay741982]

I wouldn't be surprised if the season ends (opposite of the start of the season) with Diggle going off to hunt down Andy, Thea running off to hunt down Malcolm, and Oliver and Felicity left behind to take care of the city after the team takes down DD.

I could totally see this happening. They take down DD. Oliver and Felicity get back together Maybe Oliver is Mayor so he and his Fiance or Wife as the first Man and Lady of the city stay behind to rebuild while Thea chases after Malcolm and Diggle hunts his brother

[Morrigan2575]

Hmm it's possible but, I don't know if I see both Thea and Diggle leaving. I'm pretty much on an either/or bent right now.

I'm also thinking/hoping that Thea kills Malcolm in 423 but, sadly that's probably a long shot