Spoiler Discussion Thread

[looptab]

Based on her line in the crossover...I'm thinking she's know for a while. 

Yeah, that's my point. I'm sure I said this before, but Oliver was all "Everyone and their mother know my secret, enough" in the crossover, and then he goes and blabbers Barry's? :)

 

not sure it was from Canadagraphs, i don't think he had pictures just tweets about catching all of those people after filming and getting autographs

Oh, okay. Thanks!

[nksarmi]

Missed that.  I would think they would still have to operate from somewhere other than the Foundry just because SCPD knows where they were operating from. 

Maybe Ras will let them use his big Starling City space with all the fire (what were those things - they aren't torches or sconces?).  I'm hoping that by season four, Oliver Queen owns his business again and creates some secret hide-out space in a much more secure room of Queen Consolidated - because really the Foundry is definitely NOT secure.

[AyChihuahua]

I am so not watching him get branded. That is horrible. I'm pretty tired of Oliver being tortured both emotionally and physically.

I really want to watch him marionette Ray, though, so maybe I'll watch the second half of 19.

Oh, and The Flash 22 looks awesome. I am a huge sucker for the heroic faceoff. It does kind of show why a hood isn't the best idea for battle though, as in that one gif it's pretty well obscuring Oliver's vision.

Edited April 3, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah, that's my point. I'm sure I said this before, but Oliver was all "Everyone and their mother know my secret, enough" in the crossover, and then he goes and blabbers Barry's? :)

 

Oh, okay. Thanks!

Maybe another villain shows up and tells her?  Better yet, the villain calls her on the phone...hey that Flash guy over in CC 600 miles away from you...oh yeah it's Barry Allen just thought you'd like to know...peace.

[foreverevolving]

Regarding who may be dying: I don't think it's Akio that's gonna bite the dust- unless it happens in the finale. There's a picture on twitter of colton with the kid playing Akio and according to the info it's from the last couple of days:

https://twitter.com/ColtonHteam/status/583839519407022083

[wingster55]

Yeah, that's my point. I'm sure I said this before, but Oliver was all "Everyone and their mother know my secret, enough" in the crossover, and then he goes and blabbers Barry's? :)

 

I think she figured it out on her own actually. He introduced Barry as his friend from Central City and Laurel remarks that the Arrow was in Central earlier. 

[Morrigan2575]

I think she figured it out on her own actually. He introduced Barry as his friend from Central City and Laurel remarks that the Arrow was in Central earlier. 

the same dumbass that couldn't figure out Oliver was the Arrow for nearly 2 seasons or that her very own sister was the Canary after talking fact to face with her?  Somehow she's smart enough to pick up on the fact that Barry Allen who she met for all of 30 seconds is in fact The Flash?  Yeah, uh huh.

[closer2fine]

Some thoughts kicking around....

 

1. If the spoiled "wedding" is between Oliver and some rando LoA person...is that really binding?  Is there a judge? A marriage license? What's the waiting period in Nanda Parbat? Is it like Vegas?

 

2. If they plan to sell Season 3.5 comics (which they DO), how do they expect to sell comics with Oliver and Felicity separated and Oliver married to someone else. Look at Marc's plea for Olicity fans to "vote with their dollars" regarding the latest issue.  (I have real problems with being expected to purchase secondary material to get the whole story)

 

3. I still maintain that getting Oliver and Felicity married will take the heat off them trying so hard to keep them apart and doing such an awful job of it.  Let the conflict be internal.  Plus, if they really plan to GO THERE with Felicity's father for S4....it would amp up everything.

[AyChihuahua]

NO IT WOULD NOT BE BINDING!

Emphasis not aimed at you. I'm a lawyer and this stuff drives me nuts. The LOA is not a nation so its internal ceremonies have no legal meaning to other nations, plus he's being forced, plus he'd have less than zero emotional reason to try to "make it work" with an assassin he was forced to marry at the threat of death (his or his loved ones').

Think of it like Al Qaeda forcing an imprisoned military member to marry a terrorist's daughter. Is the U.S. really going to make that binding? NO!

Edited April 3, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[dtissagirl]

I really think there's gotta be a deleted scene on the DVD with the press release Laurel issued to alert the public that henceforth, the woman in black leather and blonde wig shall be referred to "Black Canary".

 

 

3. I still maintain that getting Oliver and Felicity married will take the heat off them trying so hard to keep them apart and doing such an awful job of it.  Let the conflict be internal.  Plus, if they really plan to GO THERE with Felicity's father for S4....it would amp up everything.

 

ITA. They will still have the Baby Mama + Surprise Kid external conflict to deal with, let that be THE ONLY ONE.

Edited April 3, 2015 by dancingnancy

[closer2fine]

 

ITA. They will still have the Baby Mama + Surprise Kid external conflict to deal with, let that be THE ONLY ONE.

 

Ugh. Yes. The April Nardini-ness of it all.  But that's an external conflict that is at least ORGANIC to the story. 

Edited April 3, 2015 by closer2fine

[Starfish35]

I really think there's gotta be a deleted scene on the DVD with the press release Laurel issued to alert the public that henceforth, the woman in black leather and blonde wig shall be referred to "Black Canary".

Seriously. Because how did we go from a name her father sneers at her at Sara's grave to being so widely known that Ray Palmer just tosses it out in conversation and Oliver doesn't even blink?

[apinknightmare]

Seriously. Because how did we go from a name her father sneers at her at Sara's grave to being so widely known that Ray Palmer just tosses it out in conversation and Oliver doesn't even blink?

 

She yelled it out at one of the Channel 52 camera guy who was filming as Oliver conveniently lowered himself on a wire fastened to a strategically shot arrow into THE MOON, and then gently lifted her up out of harm's way. 

Edited April 3, 2015 by apinknightmare

[kismet]

Seriously. Because how did we go from a name her father sneers at her at Sara's grave to being so widely known that Ray Palmer just tosses it out in conversation and Oliver doesn't even blink?

The real question is do I even care? Frankly, I have no big issues with LL/BC being part of Arrow. She came with the story and the writers clearly like her. There have been significant flaws in how they have executed her story from s1-3 and I wish they would fix some of those errors. I wish they would make her a strong independent kickass woman that is an asset to the team and not a liability. So I have high hopes for s4 that they find someway for her to interact with TA that contributes and does not detract from the storyline. But honestly, I don't care how her name became public knowledge - just like I don't care to see her training. Tell me she got some quality training, make it a believable time frame and hire a good stuntwoman. Which I think is the path they are on with Nyssa, which is a good move for the show. Then let her be the BC from the comics that everyone says is amazing, stands for justice defends the innocent, etc. I have seen enough of her origin over the last 3 years, I'm ready for her to just be the BC and stop sucking up screen time on stuff they could explain in a few sentences.

[newbie]

Could it be.... the  when you look at 0.56 at sacrifice.... whas it Tatsu and Shrieve ???

[foreverevolving]

You know I was rewatching the promo, and according to the youtube comments the line Oliver says at the end about being the heir: I am Al-Saheem, Warith Al-Gaul, Heir to the demon.

Now.. google says the name Warith means Heir..

 

So I'm thinking maybe the big death that usually happens at the end of the season is in fact the death of Oliver Queen as he is reborn to the name Warith Al-Gaul?

Just a theory, It suddenly came to me watching the promo and Ra's talking about how being born and reborn is essentially painful (well he says violent acts but I think we can assume that it means painful)

[HighHopes]

I wonder if it's not the foundry that gets blown up, but the police headquarters/evidence locker- done by Laurel. Similar to how Team Arrow blew up the Applied Sciences building last year. 

 

Then again there was also a semi-spoiler about if Laurel would get a glass case for her costume too. Someone asked about it and MG's reply was "keep watching".  So maybe it is the foundry after all...

 

And while scrolling through his tumblr: one word to describe Olicity fans in 3x19 is "WTF". They also have "some fairly big scenes together in 3x16, 3x17, and 3x19.  (And DO NOT even get me started on 3x20.)" So it looks like the big sex scene is 3x20 I'm guessing. 

Edited April 3, 2015 by HighHopes

[Starfish35]

The real question is do I even care?

I care. Because it's just another example of them dropping something on Laurel without any basis for it, and assuming we're all going to accept it "because comics". Which....I guess most people are. But personally it annoys me. *shrug* YMMV.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Starfish35

[newbie]

I thougt, that the big bad in Hongkong would be Amanda because Ollie would like to kill her still.

 

But then Ive seen the videol. And how could you bring catana in it. she threatens Shrieve.??? the one how freed Olli ????

[kismet]

I care. Because it's just another example of them dropping something on Laurel without any basis for it, and assuming we're all going to accept it "because comics". Which....I guess most people are. But personally it annoys me.

Fair point. So for your sake, I hope they do address it. The way they drop and manipulate a lot of things can be really annoying. I'm sure we all have out little list of pet peeves. Gosh knows I have my list. I've also just decided to try not dwell too much on some things as MG/the show seem content in some of his mission statements/goals & unlikely to change. But then again I said TRY, so who knows what tomorrow will bring. That's what makes this forum so great we can bring all our rants & frustrations to light. We also can share all the great things about this show too.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I have to wonder if someone was tasked with the job of reading some Olicity fanfiction and reporting back to the writer's room, letting them know what fans want to see in the love scene.  Scar touching?  Check!  I've never seen the glasses removal thing in any of the stories I've read, but that's kinda sweet.  One that I've seen a lot (which obviously isn't going to happen here) is Oliver removing Felicity's ponytail holder.  I'd probably straight up murder a dude if he ripped my very thick really curly hair out of a ponytail holder, but to each their own, I guess.

 

It looks like Oliver is possibly wearing a button down shirt (probably with a T-shirt underneath).  I'm thinking that this love scene is going to be long, is what I'm saying.  And I'm probably not going to be able to watch this live, ahhh!  :(

[dtissagirl]

Fair point. So for your sake, I hope they do address it. The way they drop and manipulate a lot of things can be really annoying. I'm sure we all have out little list of pet peeves. Gosh knows I have my list. I've also just decided to try not dwell too much on some things as MG/the show seem content in some of his mission statements/goals & unlikely to change. But then again I said TRY, so who knows what tomorrow will bring. That's what makes this forum so great we can bring all our rants & frustrations to light. We also can share all the great things about this show too.

 

Responding in the Laurel thread.

[WaitandHope]

So I, like the rest on the Internet, cannot really contain my excitement from yesterdays' sizzle reel.  It's basically the best thing the show has put out all year.  Hot Damn!

 

So moving on, and in an effort to not be repetitive, I do have a different - more optimistic thought - about Oliver becoming the head of the LOA.  While this story has been draining and all over the place, I do think it potentially makes Oliver the biggest badass in his own story again.  I love the Flash, am a total fangirl for all the crossovers, and I don't mind the metahumans being introduced, but it does make a guy with a bow and some trick arrows seem outmatched and creates a huge narrative problem. 

 

But the head of the LEAGUE, that guy would still be a badass - even in a world of metahuman abilities and superpowers.  I'm not sure how they do it exactly and stay consistent with the themes of the show - but I'm not sure I want him to disassociate completely from the League in S4.  Those pics from The Flash do seem stronger with Oliver in the League garb.  They make him seem more relevant - and less outmatched - in this new superpowered world.

 

We can debate whether they should have "gone there" in the first place with all the crossovers and metahumans etc., but since they have, LoA (or League of Shadows - if he changes the name) puts Oliver more on a level footing.   

[nksarmi]

I'm starting to wonder if the "Goodbyes are hard, even when they are scripted" has nothing to do with death or anyone leaving the show.  It looks like ERB and Ray are having a break up and Felicity is going with Oliver to NP, but that would still be an emotional day of filming for her.  Oliver is saying goodbye to Laurel, Roy (and it looks like he is staying in prison even though Oliver wants to break him out), and maybe Diggle (I think spoilers indicated he would go with the team, but I see no reason for him to since he should still have Lyla and baby Sara to care for).  That could be an emotional day of filming for him.  Roy looks like he is going to have some emotional scenes with Lance, Oliver, and Thea.  So the tweets might be explained without any of the core characters dying (though I still see tombstones for Capt. Lance).

 

I guess they might not blow up the Foundry, but if they can do it before Lance is able to confiscate anything - that would put a serious dent in evidence.  I mean, sure it looks bad - but no evidence is still no evidence.

[Carrie Ann]

I think if they were filming a Thea death scene, in which she hung on long enough to basically have goodbye scenes with Roy and Oliver, that could be pretty emotionally draining for all of them. (BTW, I hate that I'm rooting for Thea to die now, but because I know it won't be permanent, I'm just happy to finally feel some optimism that Roy is going to live.)

[kismet]

So I, like the rest on the Internet, cannot really contain my excitement from yesterdays' sizzle reel.  It's basically the best thing the show has put out all year.  Hot Damn!

 

So moving on, and in an effort to not be repetitive, I do have a different - more optimistic thought - about Oliver becoming the head of the LOA.  While this story has been draining and all over the place, I do think it potentially makes Oliver the biggest badass in his own story again.  I love the Flash, am a total fangirl for all the crossovers, and I don't mind the metahumans being introduced, but it does make a guy with a bow and some trick arrows seem outmatched and creates a huge narrative problem. 

 

But the head of the LEAGUE, that guy would still be a badass - even in a world of metahuman abilities and superpowers.  I'm not sure how they do it exactly and stay consistent with the themes of the show - but I'm not sure I want him to disassociate completely from the League in S4.  Those pics from The Flash do seem stronger with Oliver in the League garb.  They make him seem more relevant - and less outmatched - in this new superpowered world.

 

We can debate whether they should have "gone there" in the first place with all the crossovers and metahumans etc., but since they have, LoA (or League of Shadows - if he changes the name) puts Oliver more on a level footing.   

I like the idea of it being the League of Shadows instead of assassins. And Oliver did look good in that league outfit. It does increase his badassery. I can't remember who said it now, but I do like the idea of Felicity somehow giving him the idea to take down the league from the inside. But perhaps, rather than take it down he can just change its mission & purpose to bringing justice not just destroying the evil. The tenets of the league do not seem all that bad, just some of their methods. So then after a few months, will he just find a deputy that can fulfill this mission and manage the league while he returns to SC? Manage from a far, do you think the job comes with a corporate jet? I wonder if Nyssa would be willing to give up killing in honor of Sara and thereby she would be a good leader for OQ to nominate as his deputy. She seems like a likely candidate. I would have said Maseo might have been a candidate, but he seems very stuck in the mythlore and following Ra's mission. Shooting at Felicity was a pretty drastic measure. Maybe Tatsu could be a candidate, but the actress has another show so that is bad from a logistical stand point. Is Akio old enough to be placed in charge? I don't know how they are going to resolve this issue, but my gut tells me Nyssa will be in charge of whatever remains as the league in s4. As much as I love the idea of OQ being heir to the demon for a little bit, I really feel that for a sustained story it would be hard to manage. But I do think they might try to get away with keeping him there for the 3.5 comics and early part of s4. But I was hoping for Bratva & HIVE to really be the focus of S4, so I would hate to see them pulling back & forth from those plots to NP for longer than a few episodes.

[SmallScreenDiva]

 

Finally managed to watch the entire promo and actually retain stuff beyond the love scene ... So Oliver looks like he's channeling Hugh Jackman in "Real Steel" in some of those shots, with Ray being his robot. I don't know why that makes me laugh so much. And I'm still loving the whole high-five thing. Oliver's reaction is priceless. I wish they put Ray and Oliver together sooner. I think that would have actually been a fun team-up just because they're such a study in contrast. One would be reckless, the other super careful. It would have been kinda like Oliver mentoring overeager Barry.

[statsgirl]

I think one of the big mistakes of the show this season (there were a lot) was to put Ray off in a sideplot with Felicity instead of putting him in Oliver's story and playing off their different attitudes.  Ray really took a hit with that, as did Felicity.

 

 

So it looks like the big sex scene is 3x20 I'm guessing.

That kind of makes sense because it means they would have a big audience for 3x21, the first episode of sweeps.

 

Having Thea be LPed and the sex in the same episode would be a call-back to The Climb when Oliver said he knows two things, that he would do anything for his sister, and that he loves Felicity.  But poor Felicity, she only gets kissed when he's breaking up with her in The Calm, and sex when he's going to join the LoA, possibly thinking the break-up is permanent.

 

With that scene....I predict DVD's will sell (there was not a snowball's chance before).

The timing, just as many people are saying they are going to give up on the show, is suspicious.

 

I wonder what the DVD sales have been like so far.

[nksarmi]

So between some Flash spoiler pics for episode 23, news about the new spin-off and all the cross-overs between Flash and Arrow characters in upcoming episodes - I wonder if some support actors will get contracts that look like this in the future....Will get paid $XXXX to appear in 20 episodes of any Arrow-verse show we deem appropriate over the next year.

[Morena]

what's the poin twin 's shado appear on the show? only to know the truth about her sister?as a friend said maybe Oliver is gonna marry Shadeux in flashbacks

[AyChihuahua]

"But perhaps, rather than take it down he can just change its mission & purpose to bringing justice not just destroying the evil. The tenets of the league do not seem all that bad, just some of their methods."

The thing is, to change the LOA into something quasi-okay, Oliver would have to be Ra's, not Ra's Heir. So Ra's would have to be dead. Once Ra's is dead, I see no reason Oliver would stay in the LOA. And I can't imagine the Head of the Demon is really a part-time job he can occasionally commute to. If he tried, he'd probably get a lot of challengers for his job. I think at that point he'd just hand it back to Nyssa, and she can come to Starling occasionally to help out.

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, I'm thinking Ra's is not long for this world.

[lexicon]

Ugh. Yes. The April Nardini-ness of it all.  But that's an external conflict that is at least ORGANIC to the story. 

 

I hope they handle it better than what has become referred to with widespread disdain as "the April Nardini disaster of 2007". Man did GG handle that badly, ruining what had been an amazing slow burn and one of the best relationships on tv, up to that point. 

[closer2fine]

Yeah, I'm thinking Ra's is not long for this world.

Not with them casting another 40s-50s male as next season's Big Bad.

 

Ra's has to be toast. 

[statsgirl]

But if Ra's is toast, does Oliver have to stay head of the LoA?  He could hand it over to Nyssa after he did his thing with it, but unlike the pope or a king, don't you have to die in the position?

[apinknightmare]

But if Ra's is toast, does Oliver have to stay head of the LoA?  He could hand it over to Nyssa after he did his thing with it, but unlike the pope or a king, don't you have to die in the position?

 

Well, MG said the position is one you hold until you die. So, unless they do some weird-ass magic ritual that would somehow actually tie Oliver to the position until he died, I don't see why Oliver would have to stay the head of the LoA if he didn't want to. If there is weird-ass magic involved, the only way I could see him getting out of it is if the LoA didn't exist anymore. MAGICAL LOOPHOLE PLOTLINE COMING RIGHT UP!

[Morrigan2575]

Not with them casting another 40s-50s male as next season's Big Bad.

 

Ra's has to be toast. 

i think i missed this.  I'm assuming you're talking about the Damian Dahrk character TV Line announced a few weeks back.  Did something more detailed come out about the character?

[AyChihuahua]

"But if Ra's is toast, does Oliver have to stay head of the LoA? He could hand it over to Nyssa after he did his thing with it, but unlike the pope or a king, don't you have to die in the position?"

I don't see any reason he'd have to stay. Once Ra's is dead, Oliver's the undisputed boss. I see no reason he couldn't hand it to Nyssa. And that's my point, above...as long as he's just the Heir Ra's won't let him turn the LOA quasi-good, and once Ra's is dead Oliver wouldn't stay with the LOA. He has a mission and family in Starling. All he has to do is kill Ra's (or help Nyssa kill Ra's), and he's out and we're done with all of this Ra's-induced stupidity. If Nyssa strikes the fatal blow it's even better, because the position would go directly from Ra's to Nyssa, Oliver would just have to stand back and stay out of it. Plus I think she deserves to be the one to do it.

I am fairly confident all of this LOA and Oliver-as-criminal stuff will be over at the end of the season. If the virus comes into play that could put TA back in SCPD's good graces, and the way this show's law works, that's really all you need. Everyone may "know" he's the Arrow, but it's not official, and as long as the PD turns a blind eye Oliver should be mostly good. I am a little worried about criminals targeting Oliver and his known associates, but I'm guessing maybe SC's criminals are as stupid as Lance, and they'll believe Roy really is the Arrow.

Edited April 3, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[closer2fine]

i think i missed this.  I'm assuming you're talking about the Damian Dahrk character TV Line announced a few weeks back.  Did something more detailed come out about the character?

Yes. They're casting Damian Dahrk as a Series 4 regular. Appears in the S3 finale. 40s-50s, male, ethnic preferred. 

[AyChihuahua]

That would imply he's not Felicity's father.

[dtissagirl]

If Team Arrow saves the city in 323, maybe the public opinion will be good enough for Oliver to have an I Am Iron Man moment.

 

Or, they can always copycat Batman, Incorporated and say Oliver is an angel investor to the Arrow cause. Palmer can say he also pitches in, or something.

[closer2fine]

That would imply he's not Felicity's father.

Ethnic could also mean "Jewish."  That's what I took from it, honestly.

[apinknightmare]

All he has to do is kill Ra's (or help Nyssa kill Ra's), and he's out and we're done with all of this Ra's-induced stupidity. If Nyssa strikes the fatal blow it's even better, because the position would go directly from Ra's to Nyssa, Oliver would just have to stand back and stay out of it. Plus I think she deserves to be the one to do it.

 

I like this theory the best. 

 

I also would like the murder of Ra's to be a team effort, like taking down Slade was. Felicity could rig up some tech, Dig could do some fighting, Oliver could get in there, Thea delivers a blow or two, then Nyssa takes him out for good and the LoA is hers.

[AyChihuahua]

Really? We're pretty far from the idea that Jewish people look a particular way nowadays, I think. And Felicity's as Caucasian as they come.

[closer2fine]

Really? We're pretty far from the idea that Jewish people look a particular way nowadays, I think. And Felicity's as Caucasian as they come.

Just going with my history working in television casting on the description. YMMV. 

 

FTR, I still think Felicity's father will play a big role in S4.  He might not be this character, but I do believe that we'll meet him in S4. 

[apinknightmare]

Or, they can always copycat Batman, Incorporated and say Oliver is an angel investor to the Arrow cause. Palmer can say he also pitches in, or something.

 

This made me laugh, thinking of Ray writing a legit check, and Oliver scrounging for change between the cushions of his couch and dumping a couple of nickels, a penny, an M&M and some lint onto a table. 

[SonofaBiscuit]

It's weird what DC will allow and what they put the kabosh on.  We can't have two Deadshots, but they'll allow this show to possibly kill Ra's al Ghul and have Oliver Queen become the new Ra's, leading the LoA.  Does any of this stuff happen in the comics?  Could Black Canary please show up in some new project?  I mean, people will totally be confused by two Black Canaries, so buh-bye Laurel.

 

ETA:  But now that I think about it, maybe I read something on here that someone else took over the LoA.  Hmmm.  Confused.

Edited April 3, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit

[Chaser]

It doesn't sound like Felicity's Dad to me and I'm actually glad for it; I want her Dad to be involved in the main plot, but not be the main plot.

[AyChihuahua]

"Just going with my history working in television casting on the description. YMMV.

FTR, I still think Felicity's father will play a big role in S4. He might not be this character, but I do believe that we'll meet him in S4."

I'll take your word on casting, since you have worked in the field. It just seems really broad. Like Asian, African-American, Native American, Indian...none of those ethnicities are likely to have a daughter who looks anything like Felicity.

Totally agree her father will be a big part of S4. That will probably be the main thing separating Felicity and Oliver (bc these writers are hacks who think the main couple can't just be a couple).

[closer2fine]

I'll take your word on casting, since you have worked in the field. It just seems really broad. Like Asian, African-American, Native American, Indian...none of those ethnicities are likely to have a daughter who looks anything like Felicity.

Totally agree her father will be a big part of S4. That will probably be the main thing separating Felicity and Oliver (bc these writers are hacks who think the main couple can't just be a couple).

 

Oh, it's the broadest. And then watch, they'll cast Sebastian Roche or someone like that.  Who knows.

 

If Felicity's father is a big part of S4, I would think it makes an Olicity quickie marriage more likely. I don't know why I'm so hung up on Ray being a minister. But CHEKOV'S MINISTER. I just don't know why they would throw it out there and never mention it again.