Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Scribbles]

Ban1o:  Why kill off Merlyn?  I just have a hard time believing Merlyn has been written as ambigously as he has without it being intentional.  Merlyn is the richest kind of villian in so many ways.  You can't know what he is capable of at any moment.  One minute he will spare Oliver's life and then next he is claiming to have drugged his daughter to kill Sara.  He is loony in ways it would take the writers years to rebuild in another character.  He is the show's wildcard and thus good to have in the hand to play. 

 

We don't have to believe he is redeemed or redeemable as long as Oliver/Thea has reasons to let him live we can at least understand.  Meanwhile Merlyn can be a mischief maker for years to come.

[ban1o]

Scribbles: personally I think they've completely misused Merlyn this season and have made character's act OOC or weird to make him more relevant/on the heroes side. I do like John Barrowman though. 

Edited March 5, 2015 by ban1o

[Scribbles]

Ban10:  Merlyn has always been inconsistent, it is his signature charm and why JB is such a great pick to play him.  Season 1 he is buying off a jury to save Moira and sparing Oliver one minute and then telling Oliver he can watch the city burn and his family die the next.  Malcolm is a twisted soul and a paradox for Oliver to always face.  I agree they haven't hit the marks on him this season so far, but maybe there is hope yet.  In a huge way the question of who killed Sara is tiny compared to why (motive).  Malcolm holds the answers and over the next 8 episodes can give us all new levels of enigmatized crazy.  He honestly could save a beloved character in the same episode he dooms another...and it is just Malcolm being Malcolm.  It would be nice if the writers put a bit more flesh on the bones.

[Starfish35]

We already know why Malcolm did it. Unless you think he still has some motive that he hasn't revealed yet.

Personally I don't have that much faith in the writers anymore. And I am really really hoping Nyssa kills him before the season ends.

[Scribbles]

Starfish, To be honest I don't think we have heard the whole story on why Sara was targeted for death.  The writing this season has been problematic, but I have enough faith to believe that some of the problems may have come from being too coy by half.

 

I am still not sure I believe Ras' offer to Oliver is sincere/real.  As Tatsu reminded us a couple of episodes, there are fates worse than death.  A memancing Ras would toy with Oliver like a cat with a mouse if it served a bigger goal.  Malcolm is a guy who spent years thinking you have to destroy a village to save it.  It is hard to figure out the motives of someone so extreme.  Let Malcolm, Waller and Ras all come together to plot something and you could get crazy/diabolical at levels you have to be crazy (or a comic writer) to begin to seriously entertain.

[Guest]

I love that TEAM ARROW photo with all the right people in it. The shade is real. Haha. No, but seriously now. That is kind of troll-y too, what with all the talk of someone dying. Trust no one!

 

If Roy does die, surprisingly I'm going to be pissed. I didn't really care much for his character, although he has grown on me a lot this season - especially his friendship/relationship with Thea, but he has potential to be so much more if only they knew what to do with him. Why are all the wrong characters dying? Whyyyyyyy?

[Chaser]

DR was very complimentary of KC/LL in his interviews for the big 11-13 arc, but his social media comments are a little different. Tweeting about how his son doesn't know who BC is, the no-emotion impersonation of LL, Team Arrow picture (even tho I see that as equal parts troll-y the audience). 

[TrueMyth]

I suspected that Roy might die for Thea's journey since Stephen's "last time" photo, particularly with the earlier picture of Roy under arrest by the cops (big heroic beat before he shuffles off), but I'm coming to see the narrative pull of Felicity being in mortal danger in 3x19/3x20.  Stephen's camera rig just screams Oliver running distressed through the hospital halls, and I don't see him emoting to that level for anyone besides Thea or Felicity.  Combined with Chekhov's  Lazarus Pit, because I don't believe Felicity would be killed off for good, I feel it.

 

Of course, are we just assuming that Thea is being fitted for a hero's mask?  Maybe Thea was hit in the explosion, Roy dies to save her, she's horribly burned, then dies.

 

Congrats, show.  You've pulled me back in with speculation just as you pushed me away with the Ray and the Buckles. 

[chaos is welcome]

I suspected that Roy might die for Thea's journey since Stephen's "last time" photo, particularly with the earlier picture of Roy under arrest by the cops (big heroic beat before he shuffles off), but I'm coming to see the narrative pull of Felicity being in mortal danger in 3x19/3x20.  Stephen's camera rig just screams Oliver running distressed through the hospital halls, and I don't see him emoting to that level for anyone besides Thea or Felicity.  Combined with Chekhov's  Lazarus Pit, because I don't believe Felicity would be killed off for good, I feel it.

 

Of course, are we just assuming that Thea is being fitted for a hero's mask?  Maybe Thea was hit in the explosion, Roy dies to save her, she's horribly burned, then dies.

 

Congrats, show.  You've pulled me back in with speculation just as you pushed me away with the Ray and the Buckles. 

So much this.  I'm finally interested (and afraid) of what they might do, but first time I've been interested AT ALL. 

 

Edit: That TA pic with all the right people makes me excited and so nervous at the same time. everything I love(d) about the show is in that picture.  I feel like its either going to be Roy or F OR they were intentionally told to drum up "stuff"

Edited March 5, 2015 by chaos is welcome

[Morrigan2575]

So Roy or Felicity dies in 319 but are for some reason still filming in 320?

[Scribbles]

So Roy or Felicity dies in 319 but are for some reason still filming in 320?

Another reason why I believe the actual death is Maseo and/or Akio to parallel with a very critical condition Felicity causing Oliver to have to think a lot of thinks a feel a lot of feels.

[catrox14]

Reasons why they could be filming and still be dead.

Lazarus pits

flashbacks

Dream/memory sequences

Vertigo hallucinations

Malcolm drugs them

mirakuru hallucinations

[Carrie Ann]

Reasons why they could be filming and still be dead.

Lazarus pits

flashbacks

Dream/memory sequences

Vertigo hallucinations

Malcolm drugs them

mirakuru hallucinations

 

Filming as a dead body, a la CL in "Sara."

[apinknightmare]

Another reason why I believe the actual death is Maseo and/or Akio to parallel with a very critical condition Felicity causing Oliver to have to think a lot of thinks a feel a lot of feels.

Could be Maseo, but it's definitely not the boy they were tweeting about-Colton's never worked with him. Unless SA's scripted goodbye tweet was separate from Colton's hardest day of work ever tweet.

Edited March 5, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Morrigan2575]

Filming as a dead body, a la CL in "Sara."

It is possible but then  David Ramsey's long live team arrow is just to rub salt in the wounds?

Edited March 5, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Scribbles]

Could be Maseo, but it's definitely not the boy they were tweeting about-Colton's never worked with him. Unless SA's scripted goodbye tweet was separate from Colton's hardest day of work ever tweet.

Yup.  My thinking is SA is saying goodbye to the boy playing Akio in the gracious way he often does and CH was emotional because seeing EBR all critical and such would be taxing.  The pair of tweets allows for lots of guessing and headlines, but CH doesn't mention death.

[Chaser]

I'm wondering now if the 'Last Time' comment actually refers to Laurel. I don't think she is the one that dies, but maybe that is when she leaves to go train with Nyssa or something. She seems to have been in LA for a bit so I'm wondering how much she is in 3x19/3x20. 

 

Lance is on a crossover to the The Flash so I don't think he dies, the big neon lights pointing to Roy makes me doubt its him, I'm confident Diggle is safe, Oliver can't die again, the subtle 'smoak' spelling is either a hint its Felicity or it's just a way to drum up fear. 

 

I want to say everything they mention could just be a red herring: they haven't teased LL dying (I don't think its her but it would be nice if that was why MG said 'Nope' to the spin off question). I think it may be Malcolm or a someone really supporting.

 

My submission for crazy crack pot theory: Maybe its Mama Smoak? No one would see that coming. It would explain why it looks like EBR lcould have been crying in the photo. It could also be a way to introduce her father next season. Maybe the big dramatic run-thru in the hospital by Oliver is because he thinks Felicity is hurt. Malcolm or whoever goes after Felicity and gets her mother instead. Totally crack pot and the timing is off, but why not throw spaghetti on the wall?

Edited March 5, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[catrox14]

And David Ramsey's long live team arrow is just to rub salt in the wounds?

I honestly took it " Team Arrow is dead. LONG LIVE team Arrow." meaning someone is dying and someone is replacing a member. And that was the salute to the OGTA.

[KirkB]

From the Spoilers Only page:  A new villain known as Murmur, whose mouth has been sewn shut, begins to terrorize Starling City. Meanwhile, Laurel and Nyssa bond over their issues with their fathers and Thea is forced to come to terms with her father after Oliver brings Malcolm to the loft to recover.

 

First of all, what the hell do Laurel and Nyssa have to bond over? Nyssa's father is a murderous despot who has apparently disinherited her and who she has legitimate reasons to hate. Laurel's father is an honorable, usually gentle man who is rightfully pissed at her for lying to him about the death of his daughter, including pretending to be her to fool him. He has reason to be upset with her, not the other way around.

 

Secondly, okay, so Ra's wants Oliver to be the new Ra's? Whatever. But he lets Malcolm go? Seriously? Oliver and Diggle, yes, he frees them so Oliver can go home and discuss things with his friends and family. But why on Earth would be release Malcolm? 

[Chaser]

Because I think Malcolm is a turd who only cares about himself, maybe Ra's allowed him to leave in exchange for something. Something that is probably going to screw Oliver and Thea over.

[catrox14]

From the Spoilers Only page:  A new villain known as Murmur, whose mouth has been sewn shut, begins to terrorize Starling City. Meanwhile, Laurel and Nyssa bond over their issues with their fathers and Thea is forced to come to terms with her father after Oliver brings Malcolm to the loft to recover.

 

First of all, what the hell do Laurel and Nyssa have to bond over? Nyssa's father is a murderous despot who has apparently disinherited her and who she has legitimate reasons to hate. Laurel's father is an honorable, usually gentle man who is rightfully pissed at her for lying to him about the death of his daughter, including pretending to be her to fool him. He has reason to be upset with her, not the other way around.

 

Secondly, okay, so Ra's wants Oliver to be the new Ra's? Whatever. But he lets Malcolm go? Seriously? Oliver and Diggle, yes, he frees them so Oliver can go home and discuss things with his friends and family. But why on Earth would be release Malcolm?r

Maybe Malcolm was never really Ras target and he needed Malcolm to get Oliver to nanda parbat ? And maybe Ras wants to use Oliver to kill Malcolm. Maybe Oliver kills Malcolm and Ras tries to take back the Ras title with another fight on the mountain, but this time Oliver wins for.... Reasons

Because I think Malcolm is a turd who only cares about himself, maybe Ra's allowed him to leave in exchange for something. Something that is probably going to screw Oliver and Thea over.

Your idea is better. Lol

[SonofaBiscuit]

See, the very hopeful part of me sees that KC has been cancelling con appearances, she's in LA right now thus not filming, she was one of the three in SA's photo where he was capturing things for the very last time, she seemed pretty friendly with CH so her death might upset him, and she's not in this Team Arrow photo that DR has posted.  This hopeful part of me wants to believe that Laurel is no more, but I've been burned badly before, so I am just going to push these thoughts deep down so as not to be disappointed again.

[TrueMyth]

Do we know for certain when DR's picture was taken? They started filming 3x20 on... Tuesday? Wednesday? And sounds like the most dramatic 3x19 scene was filmed on Monday. So could DR be posting the OGTeam photo a bit late?

[Scribbles]

Laurel and Nyssa are a misery loves company match.  I don't care to watch their misery mash up, but I can understand the writers playing it a bit.

 

Laurel would have to have a wake up call if the foundry explodes and Felicity goes critical.  Oliver nailed it earlier in the season when he told Laurel she fails to see this vigilante stuff is not a game.  If she is ever to become a hero, she needs to take what she has learned over the past few episodes and step away a while to grow into something hero worthy.  Quentin knows she is playing BC and will be duty bound to arrest her soon if she doesn't step out of it.

[AyChihuahua]

In the story, I think Ra's would let him go to preserve the status quo while Oliver ponders.  Ra's courting Oliver right now, and lopping off the head of someone the courtee is protecting isn't good courting behavior.  Plus, he's not worried about Malcolm.  I firmly believe if he'd really wanted to he could have scooped him up ages ago.  In terms of drama, Malcolm has to be loose to cause trouble (including killing Felicity).

 

Re Black Canary spec from earlier, she's not going to stop being the BC.  There's just no way they would go through all this trouble to make her BC and then have her just quit.  And Sara coming back doesn't change that, especially because she's not coming back to this show.  I do think/hope Laurel will be doing some serious training, though, and also get a new outfit.  Katie Cassidy is far too thin for that outfit, and I say this as a huge Buffy lover.  Sarah Michelle Gellar was too thin to play a superhero too, but she at least had some martial arts training, her character was superpowered so bulk didn't really matter, and most importantly, she wasn't killing vampires in skintight black leather. 

 

Oh, and ETA: I think the whole plot about Lance going after TA will be over by the end of 19.  Most likely the big scene three years in the making is OQ showing Lance that he's the Arrow, they work their crap out, Roy is released from jail and that whole Public Enemy nonsense is over.  IRL a cop can't really do that, but the legal stuff on this show has always been nuts.

Edited March 5, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Scribbles]

In the story, I think Ra's would let him go to preserve the status quo while Oliver ponders.  He's courting Oliver right now, and lopping off the head of someone the courtee is protecting isn't good courting behavior.  Plus, he's not worried about Malcolm.  I firmly believe if he'd really wanted to he could have scooped him up ages ago.  In terms of drama, he has to be loose to cause trouble (including killing Felicity).

 

While Malcolm is a villian driven by grief/vengence, Ras is a cool cucumber who can rise above the fray and plays metaphorical chess with the world.  As long as Ras has raked Malcolm over the literal (see last episode) and proverbial coals he can afford to release him for a while.  Best of all for Ras...Malcolm the maniac now owes him one.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Scribbles

[Morrigan2575]

Do we know for certain when DR's picture was taken? They started filming 3x20 on... Tuesday? Wednesday? And sounds like the most dramatic 3x19 scene was filmed on Monday. So could DR be posting the OGTeam photo a bit late?

SA is wearing the same costume in the DR picture as he was in the Hospital/Hallway picture and both were posted on the same day (yesterday) one early in the day and one late at night.  Seems like they were both taken during filming of 320 just hours apart. 

[Guest]

It is weird that Team Arrow are still filming when supposedly one of them dies in 319, unless of course we still see their body. It's also strange that KC is in LA and has been for a little while by the sounds of it. Does this mean Laurel goes off to NP to train? Possible. They need to do something, although I always assumed she'd just train during the 5 months hiatus between s3 and s4 and then she'd be the best BC to ever BC after that. Who knows?

 

Right now though I don't feel like anyone on TA is safe. Roy is the most obvious, especially after the picture with SA, KC and CH and them 'filming things for the last time' or whatever a week or so ago. But there are hints that it's Felicity too. 

 

I also find it odd that we've not heard anything about Malcolm. And combine this with the fact that they're introducing the s4 big bad at the end of the season, that means the whole Ra's al Ghul thing will be wrapped up this season which leads me to think maybe Malcolm takes over and that was his dastardly plan all along. That way they can keep Malcolm as a lingering threat but he doesn't need to be onscreen all the time. Ugh. I really don't know anymore. Can't make sense of anything.

 

At least they got everyone talking about the show though which is exactly what they wanted. We all played right into their hands! 

[AyChihuahua]

I don't think that tells us much.  Most likely the end of 19 is a cliffhanger, so everyone would be wearing the same clothes for the start of 20, and the sets are likely not far apart.  Plus there's no reason to think they'd immediately dismantle the foundry set, and the characters would probably go back there to check it out/scrounge for anything useful anyway.  Is the DR pic in character or just the actors?  (Can't access instagram at work.) 

[Guest]

 Is the DR pic in character or just the actors?  (Can't access instagram at work.) 

 

They all look in character to me.

[AyChihuahua]

I'm sorry; I should have been more clear.  I meant is it a posed picture of the actors, or is it an action shot of the characters?

[Guest]

Oh. It's a posed picture of the actors on set.

[AyChihuahua]

Got it.  They should really rewatch "The Body" episode of Buffy, and the final two episodes of S2 of Supernatural.  The bits I've seen of Jensen Ackles (Dean) losing it over Sam have been so heartbreaking that I've never been able to watch the full scene.  And from what I read (and I used to be a crazed SPN fan), Jensen put himself into Dean's headspace for that scene so much that he, the actor, was fairly messed up for awhile. 

 

Since then both Dean and Sam have died so many times that it's become a running joke, but back in the first four or so seasons that show could really break your heart.

[MarDelSol]

A part of me still thinks this is an elaborate fakeout for Thea. I'm not sure the writers can resist killing another woman.

[statsgirl]

The one thing that will make the writers resist is the backlash over killing another woman after Shado, Moira and Sara in less than 23 episodes.  They got enough over the TCA panel.

 

Killing Donna would fit that she doesn't have any lines with anyone but Felicity but I don't see any point to killing Mama Smoak.  If they didn't want to use her, they could have just not had her own the show any more.  And if they do bring her back, she's just a delight.

'Broken Arrow' in military parlance refers to a missile gone astray. I don't think it refers to that though.

 

I don't mind Laurel and Nyssa bonding if it keeps Laurel away from Felicity.  Their "friendship" is the most inorganic forced thing on a show that is full of forced things.  Also, someone needs to teach Laurel to fight.

 

I am just wondering why Laurel Lance doesnt seem to be in town for everything that seems to be going down in Starling City.

Shh!  don't let them know.

 

 

Scribbles: personally I think they've completely misused Merlyn this season and have made character's act OOC or weird to make him more relevant/on the heroes side. I do like John Barrowman though. 

This is why MM is my second choice for killing off.  I love Barrowman and he can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear script but they've really blown this storyline if this is all it is.  Oliver protecting him in The Magician barely made sense, going to rescue him at the possible cost of his own life makes no sense, and the whole need to learn fighting from MM when we already know Ra's is better makes even less.  The creative well in terms of Malcolm Merlyn appears to be dry.

[tessaray]

 

From the MG Tumblr post recaps:

Honestly, I feel that Felicity with a costume and a mask would be a bridge too far.  Sorry.

 

First MG quote that I've ever liked.  I would love to see her get to do it for Halloween or maybe a masquerade, though.

[Starfish35]

It's also strange that KC is in LA and has been for a little while by the sounds of it. Does this mean Laurel goes off to NP to train? Possible. They need to do something, although I always assumed she'd just train during the 5 months hiatus between s3 and s4 and then she'd be the best BC to ever BC after that. Who knows?

Yeah I'm finding this odd too. i don't think we're actually losing Laurel permanently, but I wonder if she ends up leaving town with Nyssa for a couple of episodes due to whatever happens in 318?

[Chaser]

First MG quote that I've ever liked.  I would love to see her get to do it for Halloween or maybe a masquerade, though.

I want to see Felicity in the hood. I don't care how; I just want to see it. And I want Oliver to see it. 

[Scribbles]

I want to see Felicity in the hood. I don't care how; I just want to see it. And I want Oliver to see it. 

 

I hadn't thought about Felicity in a hood but...since back when she first entered the foundry and picked up Oliver's bow and then later in S-2 custom ordered him one...............  I have been watching for her to be an archer with a nice shot that saves the day at the right moment.  If Oliver grinned when she impressed on the Dollmaker info, he would go full blown face pride at a Felicity bullseye.

Yeah I'm finding this odd too. i don't think we're actually losing Laurel permanently, but I wonder if she ends up leaving town with Nyssa for a couple of episodes due to whatever happens in 318?

Can you imagine Laurel in Nanda Parbat with Nyssa....Ras meets Laurels attitude?  Ras sees her fighting prowess?...Oh my! I guess even the Demon's Head deserves some comedic moments.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Scribbles

[looptab]

See, the very hopeful part of me sees that KC has been cancelling con appearances, she's in LA right now thus not filming, she was one of the three in SA's photo where he was capturing things for the very last time, she seemed pretty friendly with CH so her death might upset him, and she's not in this Team Arrow photo that DR has posted.  This hopeful part of me wants to believe that Laurel is no more, but I've been burned badly before, so I am just going to push these thoughts deep down so as not to be disappointed again.

The only thing keeping me from getting my hopes up with all these "clues" is that I don't think the actors would post a celebratory pic with the caption "LONG LIVE TEAM ARROW" just a couple days after she has exhaled her last, definitely last breath on the show. 

That's why I'm more inclined to believe it's either a fake, not permanent death (if, in facts, does involve her) or she's just out and about for a couple of episodes.

[KirkB]

Now that you say it, I want to see (and in fact, in my own mind am seeing) a scene of Laurel just finishing up some fighting routine, being all smug and proud, maybe with Nyssa right there telling her how impressed she is, then they turn to see what Ra's thinks and he's laying on the ground, clutching his stomach and laughing so hard he can barely breath.

[Starfish35]

LOL!!

Well I absolutely do not think Laurel is the death in 319. No way. But all this talk about KC being in LA is making me wonder if Laurel's in 319 at all? Do we have any confirmation that she is even in the episode?

Edited March 5, 2015 by Starfish35

[Morrigan2575]

She filmed early in the 319 episode, she filmed the first day. They are currently filming 320 so, she missed the last 2 days of 319 and (so far) the first 2 days of 320. Beyond that, I don't know. I don't know when she left Vancouver,

Edited March 5, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Starfish35]

Thanks!

[Morrigan2575]

Brandon Routh just posted pictures of himself and EBR and DR/SA/BR promoting some coffe thing he loves.  All on the set of Arrow.  So i think we can rule out Felicity dying in 319.

[catrox14]

corpse!Felicity or coma!Felicity still needs the actor on set...

[Morrigan2575]

corpse!Felicity or coma!Felicity still needs the actor on set...

She's in a different outfit from yesterday and she's on the PI set....guess she's dead/coma and changing clothes while fixing bugs in the ATOM suit.

[calliope1975]

The one thing that will make the writers resist is the backlash over killing another woman after Shado, Moira and Sara in less than 23 episodes.  They got enough over the TCA panel.

 

I agree. They've been raked over the coals pretty badly for the number and how they are killing women. If they do kill off a guy, that can be their rebuttal to the treatment of women. MG's already pulled out that argument out before when he's been asked about how they treat women on the show.

[catrox14]

Hey. this show has done dumber things that ! :)

[statsgirl]

Brandon Routh just posted pictures of himself and EBR and DR/SA/BR promoting some coffe thing he loves.  All on the set of Arrow.  So i think we can rule out Felicity dying in 319.

There goes our desperate attempt to make Felicity relevant to Oliver again.  :-(

 

He's got one with Karl Yune too so I guess Maseo is still around.

Edited March 5, 2015 by statsgirl