Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Starfish35]

Something just occurred to me. I know SA's been spotted filming for 313 in the Arrow costume, but since that's the Vertigo episode, is it possible he's just appearing in hallucinations?

Edited December 16, 2014 by Starfish35

[ban1o]

While I don't doubt that 314 could be a flashback-focused episode in the vein of The Odyssey and The Promise (maybe the title follows that pattern intentionally?), is it possible that they scheduled the filming of the flashback scenes together?

 

As far as how Oliver's actual return to the present tense will go...I'm starting to wonder whether the audience will see him at the very end of 312 but no one on the show will (aside from anyone taking care of him, if applicable), and then he will appear in Starling toward the end of 313 (I know he's in the suit for that episode, but he could sort of show up in the middle of the action and shock everyone), and then 314 will cover his previous "return" to Starling, and then yeah, we get the bulk of the team fallout in 315 and beyond. Ugh, if so.

Mm that's interesting. But I feel like they would show Oliver alive before that. They wouldn't want the audience to ACTUALLY think he's dead for that long :P, and thee writers did say that "The Return" did not refer to Oliver.

 

 

Something just occurred to me. I know SA's been spotted filming for 313 in the Arrow costume, but since that's the Vertigo episode, is it possible he's just appearing in hallucinations?

he's with Roy though and an unnamed actor who most likely plays a villain. And they were like chasing after each other on a rooftop. Why would Roy be hallucinating Oliver?  Isn't it like a fear toxin? But I guess him being a hallucination is possible, I just don't think it's likely.

 

Edit: This is probably against rules but here is the link to the pictures of Stephen Amell in costume in 3x13 http://canadagraphs.weebly.com/arrow-blog/arrow-shoots-night-scenes-for-episode-313-titled-canaries-with-a-guest-star-colton-haynes-aaaand-stephen-amell

Edited December 16, 2014 by ban1o

[Carrie Ann]

Mm that's interesting. But I feel like they would show Oliver alive before that. They wouldn't want the audience to ACTUALLY think he's dead for that long :P, and thee writers did say that "The Return" did not refer to Oliver.

 

Yeah, I would think we would get at least little hints in 310 and 311, but then SA did say that there are or "may be" (can't remember whether he was actually definitive about this or not) a few episodes in which he ONLY appeared in flashbacks. Even if they did drop those tiny little flashes of Present Oliver, they could wait until 312 to actually have any action on that front. Like, that's when he wakes up wherever, or when he leaves to get back to Starling.

[ban1o]

Yeah, I would think we would get at least little hints in 310 and 311, but then SA did say that there are or "may be" (can't remember whether he was actually definitive about this or not) a few episodes in which he ONLY appeared in flashbacks. Even if they did drop those tiny little flashes of Present Oliver, they could wait until 312 to actually have any action on that front. Like, that's when he wakes up wherever, or when he leaves to get back to Starling.

true. Like he could be in a coma for all of 3x10, 3x11 and then wake up in 3x12 or something.

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, I would think we would get at least little hints in 310 and 311, but then SA did say that there are or "may be" (can't remember whether he was actually definitive about this or not) a few episodes in which he ONLY appeared in flashbacks. Even if they did drop those tiny little flashes of Present Oliver, they could wait until 312 to actually have any action on that front. Like, that's when he wakes up wherever, or when he leaves to get back to Starling.

 

I thought he would disappear off the grid in 3x10 and 3x11, with no hint of him in the present because everyone thinks he's dead - we'd get flashbacks only (whose flashbacks, IDK. His still, even if he's dead?) for those two eps. Then I figured he'd surprise! show up in Starling at the end of 3x12. 

[ban1o]

I thought he would disappear off the grid in 3x10 and 3x11, with no hint of him in the present because everyone thinks he's dead - we'd get flashbacks only (whose flashbacks, IDK. His still, even if he's dead?) for those two eps. Then I figured he'd surprise! show up in Starling at the end of 3x12. 

yeah this is pretty much I was thinking except maybe they would show some hints he was alive in 3x10 or 3x11 just to assure the audience.

Edited December 16, 2014 by ban1o

[statsgirl]

SA said on the AfterArrowShow that there would be two episodes in which we would only see Oliver in flashbacks. I presume those are 310 and 311, and he was on set shooting one day of 312.

[quarks]

Ban1o, I don't know that I would call anything that this show is promoting "new" except for the upcoming Colton Haynes/The Rock film.  All of these DC characters have been around for awhile.  But both DC and Marvel have had a lot of success focusing on lesser known properties and doing different cross marketing, and Time Warner has been pulling this "hey, you, go promote the product this other division of our supersized company is putting out" even before it became Time Warner.  CW executives have even admitted that one reason for the network's continued existence is that its ten hours of television provide strong but comparatively cheap commercial spots for various Time Warner movies.  So yeah, while I don't think the main purpose for Arrow is to promote other DC and Time Warner products, or even, for that matter, Microsoft products, you can see that aspect in the show if you're looking for it.

 

Statsgirl: That's kind of my point: the producers didn't change the art history sequence in that episode at all, so that they could stick with their original plan in the finale, even though they did make other changes to later episodes. 

 

I have no idea if they are going to try to pull off a similar stunt this season, though. I kinda feel that killing off the main character in the middle of the season counts as enough of a stunt for one season, but that may be just me.  And there's other factors to consider - largely the CGI budget that will be required for any ATOM sequences.   Flash already had to have a bottle episode just a few episodes in, giving a sense of just how much those effects are costing that show. Probably why the shows keep using the same sets and the same hospital hallway. 

[ban1o]

Ban1o, I don't know that I would call anything that this show is promoting "new" except for the upcoming Colton Haynes/The Rock film. 

 

Mmm you probably know more about his than me but you don't think the Roy's role possibly increasing (we don't know by how much yet) and the film Colton is in could be a coincidence. I just looked up the trailer for the film and Colton isn't even in it so it's not like he's a major character in the film. . 

Edited December 16, 2014 by ban1o

[Carrie Ann]

I thought he would disappear off the grid in 3x10 and 3x11, with no hint of him in the present because everyone thinks he's dead - we'd get flashbacks only (whose flashbacks, IDK. His still, even if he's dead?) for those two eps. Then I figured he'd surprise! show up in Starling at the end of 3x12. 

 

That's what I assumed initially as well (though I do think the flashbacks have to be him for 310 and 311 because he did film for those eps, just not much), but now I'm not so sure. I won't be surprised either way if they do drop hints in 10/11 that he's alive, or not at all.

 

And it would make some dramatic sense for our first glimpse of him to be his shocking reappearance in Starling in 312, the first sweeps episode. But then we have to go backwards, right, to find out how he survived and what happened to him? If we haven't seen where he was at all, or had any hint that he was alive? I just don't know that there's time to do that in an episode called Canaries, or in a flashback-heavy episode. So I just started wondering whether the shocking reappearance would take place wherever he's been, presumably near this mountain, in 312. Then his shocking return to Starling in 313, then WhateverTF is happening in 314. Hey, maybe it's just Oliver and Team Arrow in the Foundry and he's telling them the story of how he survived, and in the meantime, we're seeing all these Tommy/Laurel/Thea/Ollie flashbacks.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Carrie Ann

[ban1o]

 

 

And it would make some dramatic sense for our first glimpse of him to be his shocking reappearance in Starling in 312, the first sweeps episode. But then we have to go backwards, right, to find out how he survived and what happened to him? If we haven't seen where he was at all, or had any hint that he was alive? I just don't know that there's time to do that in an episode called Canaries, or in a flashback-heavy episode. So I just started wondering whether the shocking reappearance would take place wherever he's been, presumably near this mountain, in 312. Then his shocking return to Starling in 313, then WhateverTF is happening in 314. Hey, maybe it's just Oliver and Team Arrow in the Foundry and he's telling them the story of how he survived, and in the meantime, we're seeing all these Tommy/Laurel/Thea/Ollie flashbacks.

Yeah it could make for a shocking/dramatic moment for him to appear in Starling in 3x12 after everyone thinks he`s dead. But with 3x13 being Canaries, would they have time to show exactly how he survived? Or would they just gloss over ha completely? And in the promo for 3x10 it does show someone finding him, which leads me to believe we'll see a little bit of him before he gets back to Starling City. 

 

But then your second theory makes sense as well. WE see him alive in 3x12 and then he returns in 3x13. But with all these strange flashbacks in 3x14 I don't really know what is going on lol. And do Tommy/Laurel/Thea have anything to do with how Ollie survived really? Colour me confused. It could be possible that they're filming all the flashbacks at once since this is when they could get Colin Donell back and they are not in this episode. 

Edited December 16, 2014 by ban1o

[statsgirl]

I have no idea if they are going to try to pull off a similar stunt this season, though. I kinda feel that killing off the main character in the middle of the season counts as enough of a stunt for one season, but that may be just me.  And there's other factors to consider - largely the CGI budget that will be required for any ATOM sequences.   Flash already had to have a bottle episode just a few episodes in, giving a sense of just how much those effects are costing that show. 

Nothing says "I really value you and what you do" like dropping some serious money.  Just sayin' since it's Christmas and all.

 

What changes did they make to the later season 2 episodes?

 

Thinking about it some more, it seems to me that the only change they can really make based on the ratings for 310 - 313 is how the season ends.  If Black Canary, ATOM and Arsenal are a hit, then Oliver can decide to be Arrow part-time, and work at QC the rest.  If they're not, then Oliver can say "thanks for helping out guys, but being the Arrow will stay my full time job although I'll take time off for date nights now and then."

[quarks]

The producers talked about a lot of changes that they made, notably pulling Barry Allen out of an episode and rewriting that idea totally, editing the kiss out of "Unthinkable," not making a final decision about Isabel until at least January,  and so on. They didn't specifically mention writing to the "I love you" ruse, but they did mention coming up with that idea in early December, and various scenes in episodes 15-17 are focused on helping to create the foundations for that ruse.  

 

If the producers are planning a similar sort of stunt for this year's finale, and need to start building it up in episodes 15-17, I'd assume it's going to be kept very tightly under wraps, and will be something we won't notice beyond asking "Uh, what was the point of that scene again?"  It's one reason I find this show better on a rewatch.

[ostentatious]

Yeah it could make for a shocking/dramatic moment for him to appear in Starling in 3x12 after everyone thinks he`s dead. But with 3x13 being Canaries, would they have time to show exactly how he survived? Or would they just gloss over ha completely? And in the promo for 3x10 it does show someone finding him, which leads me to believe we'll see a little bit of him before he gets back to Starling City. 

 

But then your second theory makes sense as well. WE see him alive in 3x12 and then he returns in 3x13. But with all these strange flashbacks in 3x14 I don't really know what is going on lol. And do Tommy/Laurel/Thea have anything to do with how Ollie survived really? Colour me confused. It could be possible that they're filming all the flashbacks at once since this is when they could get Colin Donell back and they are not in this episode.

Well, it's always been highly likely that Oliver returned to SC covertly during his years away. The pilot sets that up quite neatly. He is shocked at NOTHING he finds, except that Walter and Moira are recently married. The pilot also sets up the fact that he is lying about being on the island the entire time. It's quite well done.

So with Thea being in schoolgirl form, Tommy being in the ep, and knowing that it is unlikely they'd have two completely different sets of flashbacks in the same ep, I'd say we're going to see Oliver skulking around SC, checking in on his loved ones, learning Tommy and Laurel are hooking up, etc. In the pilot, Laurel notes to Tommy that Oliver didn't seem surprised to learn about them. We are allowed to think that oh well, he was skulking earlier in that ep and saw them, so...but he didn't seem the slightest bit surprised then, either. The ONLY info he reacts to is the fairly recent event of Walter and Moira marrying. And that may well have happened while he was on the island most recently growing that big old beard, which I suspect he grew between mid May and early October, 2012.

[dtissagirl]

Okay, grab-bag of spec:

 

- A few pages ago someone was wondering whether the Hong Kong flashbacks in 310 ad 311 would be from Maseo's POV, and I think this might be happening. They need to deal with the fallout of whatever China White did to Tatsu, and also there's the fact that one of the papparazzi said all the flashback actors were in town up until 311, and then left.

 

- Which leads me to think there are no HK flashbacks in both 312 and 313. One of these episodes most likely will have Malcolm flashbacks, and they were casting a Young Nyssa for one of these as well. If I had to guess, I'd say 312 gets the Malcolm flashbacks because 313 is "Canaries".

 

- Karl Yune is back filming, per the pap pictures from yesterday, and yes, it really does look like the flashback-heavy episode of the season, with Oliver being in SC while his friends and family moved on without him. Remember Paul Blackthorne's instagram picture from the second day of filming 314. He had a ton of hair, and it wasn't greying hair either. Everyone is in those flashbacks [MOIRA PLIS COME BACK].

 

- I'm legit wondering if the Oliver comes back for real episode is 314 because they're flashing back to SC, and maybe will be doing some compare and contrasting between him not coming back that time, and him coming back now.

 

- And then I guess that scene with Roy and Oliver on the roof with the perp in 313 could be a Vertigo hallucination. If Roy's greatest fear is failing Oliver, or disappointing Oliver, or not living up to Oliver's legacy, he could be seeing him. Amell said there was something spoilery in his Arrow suit that he wouldn't let the fans take pictures of, maybe it was related to that, even.

[Ariah]

 

- And then I guess that scene with Roy and Oliver on the roof with the perp in 313 could be a Vertigo hallucination. If Roy's greatest fear is failing Oliver, or disappointing Oliver, or not living up to Oliver's legacy, he could be seeing him. Amell said there was something spoilery in his Arrow suit that he wouldn't let the fans take pictures of, maybe it was related to that, even.

 

Roy's greatest fear can be being abandoned by Oliver - and reliving that again and again. I was thinking Oliver and Sara were both halucinations in the photos we've seen.

 

On the other hand: I'm starting to get really annoyed by Guggenheim's twitts ;)

 

His "Who says Oliver's coming back?" makes me quite furious - not because I have doubts that Oliver will be back, but because promoting your show by stating the core element of the show may not be present after the hiatus is a marketing failure.

 

They should be asking not the "IS Oliver coming back at all?" but rather "HOW is Oliver coming back?". That would be both intrigung and interesting, now it's just eye-rolling.

 

Unless Guggenheim's comment is metaphorical and it's about the fact that Oliver Queen is not coming back, but the Arrow is.

[ban1o]

- And then I guess that scene with Roy and Oliver on the roof with the perp in 313 could be a Vertigo hallucination. If Roy's greatest fear is failing Oliver, or disappointing Oliver, or not living up to Oliver's legacy, he could be seeing him. Amell said there was something spoilery in his Arrow suit that he wouldn't let the fans take pictures of, maybe it was related to that, even.

 

Roy's greatest fear can be being abandoned by Oliver - and reliving that again and again. I was thinking Oliver and Sara were both halucinations in the photos we've seen.

Haha I guess I'll concede that it's possible that Oliver in 3x13 is Roy's hallucination. The way you two say it makes sense., like his greatest fear is not living up to Oliver`s shoes or failing him. I just don`t really think Oliver will be gone for that long. And according to the guy who who posted the picture they were `chasing after the bad guy. But it would be interesting if her was a hallucination. I wonder if Dig or Felicity would hallucinate him as well. 

And Anyway it definitely looks like Oliver and Maseo come to Starling City in Flashbacks. I forgot about this but there was definitely a a picture of Paul Blackthorne having hair. 

Edited December 16, 2014 by ban1o

[Kordi]

[...] The pilot also sets up the fact that he is lying about being on the island the entire time. It's quite well done. [...]

Wow, I wasn't aware of that. Please, could you possibly explain briefly how this is set up in the pilot? Or mayby point out some post in the thread where this topic is dealt with? Many thanks in advance!

[Morrigan2575]

Wow, I wasn't aware of that. Please, could you possibly explain briefly how this is set up in the pilot? Or mayby point out some post in the thread where this topic is dealt with? Many thanks in advance!

For one thing he speaks Russian after being on an island for 5 years.

[ban1o]

Wow, I wasn't aware of that. Please, could you possibly explain briefly how this is set up in the pilot? Or mayby point out some post in the thread where this topic is dealt with? Many thanks in advance!

Mmm I actually don't think it's in the pilot.  I don't think it was outright implied until episode 11 that he wasn't on the island the whole time. In Season 1, Episode 11, Oliver tells Diggle he found a message from Robert about the list, and he wasn't on the island when he did so. There was always stuff stuff like him knowing all these languages and skills but the fact that he wasn't on the island the whole time was said explicitly in episode 11. 

 

I still side-eye the fact that he had seen all his family and friends though. I definitely don't think that's ever been implied. 

Edited December 16, 2014 by ban1o

[Morrigan2575]

BTW - I'd bet good money that DR meant 4-5 weeks not episodes, 310-312 filmed from 10/22-11/25.  I think the original speculation that Oliver shows up back in Starling as the Cliffhanger for 312 and then we get full Oliver/Arrow scenes in 313.  DR already said, in the same panel that DR/CH/EBR/SA had all filmed a scene together (when he told the story about SA trying to get in on the group jokes). At the very latest you will see Oliver back in Starling City with TA in 314 but I think 313 is more accurate, since there are several shots of Oliver filming as Arrow with Arsenal and with Vertigo.

[ban1o]

BTW - I'd bet good money that DR meant 4-5 weeks not episodes, 310-312 filmed from 10/22-11/25.  I think the original speculation that Oliver shows up back in Starling as the Cliffhanger for 312 and then we get full Oliver/Arrow scenes in 313.  DR already said, in the same panel that DR/CH/EBR/SA had all filmed a scene together (when he told the story about SA trying to get in on the group jokes). At the very latest you will see Oliver back in Starling City with TA in 314 but I think 313 is more accurate, since there are several shots of Oliver filming as Arrow with Arsenal and with Vertigo.

Yeah I agree with this. I think we'll get Team Arrow scenes in 3x13 and Olvier will return in 3x12.

 

I wonder how Slade's return fits into this apparent flash back episode in 3x14? 

Edited December 16, 2014 by ban1o

[dtissagirl]

I kinda think they'll use Oliver as the cliffhanger for 310, 311, and possibly 312 as well. Being found at the top of the mountain by the mystery leg in 310. Maybe waking up in 311. And then perhaps being back in SC in 312? They've been ending every single episode this season in cliffhangers that set up the next episode anyway, and one way to hook up an audience for the next week is dangling Oliver at us.

 

Vertigo is throwing me off, but I guess I wouldn't put it past them to use the hallucinations as a gotcha in 313. For all we-the-audience know it's the real Oliver, but Team Arrowless  thinks they're seeing things because of the drug? It's not like this show hasn't used hallucinations and ghosts several times before.

Edited December 16, 2014 by dancingnancy

[SonofaBiscuit]

I have to imagine that it would be ratings suicide to keep Oliver away during episodes 10-13, and then have 14 be a flashback heavy episode.  I imagine we'll see Oliver in episode 12,  Uprising (which can mean "rising from the grave", or "resurrection."  It can also mean "rising from bed" so I'm still holding onto hope of comatose Oliver).  I think that will be a brief scene at the end of the episode, and then he'll return full-time in episode 13. 

Edited December 16, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[ban1o]

I have to imagine that it would be ratings suicide to keep Oliver away during episodes 10-13, and then have 14 be a flashback heavy episode.  I imagine we'll see Oliver in episode 12,  Uprising (which can mean "rising from the grave", or "resurrection."  It can also mean "rising from bed" so I'm still holding onto hope of comatose Oliver).  I think that will be a brief scene at the end of the episode, and then he'll return full-time in episode 13. 

yeah exactly. Even if episode 13 is Laurel centric, I think Oliver will be back full time by then. 

[Morrigan2575]

I have to imagine that it would be ratings suicide to keep Oliver away during episodes 10-13, and then have 14 be a flashback heavy episode.  I imagine we'll see Oliver in episode 12,  Uprising (which can mean "rising from the grave", or "resurrection."  It can also mean "rising from bed" so I'm still holding onto hope of comatose Oliver).  I think that will be a brief scene at the end of the episode, and then he'll return full-time in episode 13. 

Nothing screams Sweeps better than having your lead character dead and not appearing for 3 of the 4 sweeps episodes...I'm sure that's exactly what MG was thinking. 

[dtissagirl]

I think there's a difference between the audience seeing Oliver [which we will, including in 310 and 311 because of the flashbacks], and Team Arrowless seeing Oliver.

 

SA said he'll be in every episode, even if it's just flashbacks, and the average viewer who's not reading anything online will go, "well, if he's in the flashbacks then he's coming back soon". And then you put one short scene in each episode of Oliver in present time -- even if it's unconscious Oliver being nursed to health by Malcolm/Maseo/Nyssa/rando person, then you can milk that for 2 or 3 episodes, and you make Oliver's reunion with Team Arrow an actual thing to look forward to.

 

They have a window for that reunion to happen, because this is television, and this kind of emotional thing only happens during sweeps, so it's got to be at any time between 312 and 315. When SA was talking about the season as a whole during his last Q&A on Facebook, he mentioned 310-313 as a separate block from 314-323. That makes me think the big reunion happens either in 313 -- closing an arc -- or 314 -- opening a new arc.

[ban1o]

So then was Guggenheim just trolling when he said the "return" didn't refer to Oliver? (Well it is Guggenheim so I wouldn't put that past him lol) And the producers keep on speaking of 3x10-3x12 as it's own entity. 

 

LOL all this debating. I guess we'll just wait and see. 

Edited December 16, 2014 by ban1o

[SonofaBiscuit]

Since episode 14 is featuring flashbacks of HK Oliver in Starling City, it would make sense story-wise for this to be the episode where present-day Oliver returns to Starling City, but man I don't really want to wait that long for him to come back.  Ugh.

[dtissagirl]

So then was Guggenheim just trolling when he said the "return" didn't refer to Oliver? (Well it is Guggenheim so I wouldn't put that past him lol) And the producers keep on speaking of 3x10-3x12 as it's own entity. 

 

LOL all this debating. I guess we'll just wait and see. 

 

I think The Return might not refer to any person or persons, but to the past.

 

And really, isn't the entire point of this thread to speculate before waiting and seeing? LET ME HAVE MY FUN! :)

[ban1o]

 

 

And really, isn't the entire point of this thread to speculate before waiting and seeing? LET ME HAVE MY FUN! :)

oh yeah of course. I just find the back and forth kinda of funny. :P 

Since episode 14 is featuring flashbacks of HK Oliver in Starling City, it would make sense story-wise for this to be the episode where present-day Oliver returns to Starling City, but man I don't really want to wait that long for him to come back.  Ugh.

yeah now that I think about it. It sorta makes sense for episode 14 to be the episode where Oliver returns to Starling City. They always try and make the flashbacks link up with present day. And if Flashback Oliver comes to Starling City it kinda makes sense for present day Oliver to come back. But David Ramsey did say that Stephen was already back and he had shot stuff with DR/EBR/CH in the foundry. 

 

Were there any other sightings of Oliver in 3x13 besides the rooftop scene with Roy? 

Edited December 16, 2014 by ban1o

[SonofaBiscuit]

I'm just going to prepare myself that Oliver in episode 13 is actually a Vertigo-induced hallucination.  I'm just going to assume that right now but I'm expecting some rage-posts from people who don't have a clue this is coming, if that's what actually happens.

[blixie]

 

I think there's a difference between the audience seeing Oliver [which we will, including in 310 and 311 because of the flashbacks], and Team Arrowless seeing Oliver.

 

Yeah I still can't imagine them not showing the audience/resolving the is he dead question in 3X10, while they show Team Arrow accepting the opposite.

[dtissagirl]

yeah now that I think about it. It sorta makes sense for episode 14 to be the episode where Oliver returns to Starling City. They always try and make the flashbacks link up with present day. And if Flashback Oliver comes to Starling City it kinda makes sense for present day Oliver to come back. But David Ramsey did say that Stephen was already back and he had shot stuff with DR/EBR/CH in the foundry.

 

But from where I see it, Oliver can be back in Starling as early as 312, and that still doesn't mean the first thing we'll see is him reuniting with Team Arrow. What if he goes after Malcolm before anything else? The first time we knew Stephen was back on set for 312 was a picture Barrowman posted of the two of them in the makeup trailer. It would fit with 312 being Malcolm's flashback episode, even.

 

David mentioned having filmed foundry scenes on Saturday, after 3 days of filming 314. For all we know that story he told happened in those past few days.

Edited December 16, 2014 by dancingnancy

[ban1o]

I'm just going to prepare myself that Oliver in episode 13 is actually a Vertigo-induced hallucination.  I'm just going to assume that right now but I'm expecting some rage-posts from people who don't have a clue this is coming, if that's what actually happens.

that would be hilarious. The picture of Oliver and Roy was posted on spoiler tv and there were almost 100 comments and everyone was like "Oh yeah he'll be back by 3x12 then. That's awesome." If he is actually just a hallucination people will be pissed lol. 

Edited December 16, 2014 by ban1o

[ban1o]

You would think if they were going to make 3x13 Laurel centric that they would have Oliver back by then though lol to offset the hate. 

[Ariah]

What if the spoilery element of that costume on Oliver in the scene with Arsenal was a blood stain on the chest? It wouldn't have been visible on the dim photos...

 

If he's a halucination, Roy could witness Oliver suddenly dying (and abandoning him - again). Arsenal could chase a real criminal, at the same time seeing Oliver running at his side - but then Oliver just colapses and dies => cue the blood stain.

[Morrigan2575]

According to Canadagraph's write up the only thing that might be potentially spoilery was some sort of mini-arrow heads or something.  He was actually hard press to find it, even looked back though older photos.  I have no idea what SA meant but it doesn't sound like blood or anything even noticeable to the average viewer.

 

http://canadagraphs.weebly.com/arrow-blog

 

He said "my wardrobe had a bit of a spoiler on it..." which instantly made me go home and look at my pics. Only immediate difference I could see is what appears to be 6 spots on his shoulder that are in the shape of an arrow funny enough...but I THINK they are some type of arrows, or arrow heads? In any case.... looks like someone gave Oliver a Christmas present.

 

 

Well, unless Roy Harper is hallucinating his mentor running along side him. It appears Arrow is back in Starling City by episode 313 or sooner.

 

 

Remember the new Vertigo is about fear, if Roy already thinks Oliver is dead...he won't exactly fear Oliver dying and he certainly wouldn't fear Oliver running along side he trying to stop the bad guy...  There's more information about the scene in the blog write up.  It certainly sounds like Arrow/Arsenal are back in action in 313, teaming up to stop a bad guy (not Veritgo).  There's also a later scene of Arrow and Vertigo in a ship yard, so unless several people are hallucinating Arrow as their greatest fear (which seems really odd since I doubt 3 separate people would all fear the same thing)...Oliver should be back with his team and fighting in costume for 313 (at the latest)

Edited December 16, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[ban1o]

Remember the new Vertigo is about feat, if Roy already thinks Oliver is dead...he won't exactly fear Oliver dying and he certainly wouldn't fear Oliver running along side he trying to stop the bad guy...

I agree with you that he'll be back by 3x12 especially because he and Roy look like they are chasing after the bad guy in the pics (there was also a video that  I saw of the scene) But to plays devil's advocate, Someone pointed out earlier that he might fear not living up to Oliver's shoes or failing Oliver or something lol. 

Edited December 16, 2014 by ban1o

[Ariah]

So maybe we're misinterpreting the whole "spoiler" thing and the fact that Oliver was wearing his suit is in fact the actual spoiler? ;)

 

Naturally, Canadagraph also writes 'Colton Haynes' when it's apparent this is the stuntdouble, but...

Edited December 16, 2014 by Ariah

[ban1o]

 

 

Naturally, Canadagraph also writes 'Colton Haynes' when it's apparent this is the stuntdouble, but...

Eh I'm sure some of them are Colton. You can barely see his face in a lot of them. And the Canadagraph guy was actually there. 

 

Anyway. Why would it be a spoiler to be in his costume though? 

Edited December 16, 2014 by ban1o

[ostentatious]

Wow, I wasn't aware of that. Please, could you possibly explain briefly how this is set up in the pilot? Or mayby point out some post in the thread where this topic is dealt with? Many thanks in advance!

What Morrigan said.

 

It's impossible that he was on the island for five years (what he "says") while speaking fluent Russian (what he "does"). He had to learn it somewhere. Everyone remarks upon the fact that he didn't know it when he left. It was always impossible that he wasn't lying about his whereabouts. He has been an unreliable narrator from the first words of his voiceover in the first episode.

 

A hint that he returned to Starling City at some point during his time away is in there as well. In the pilot he overhears a Tommy/Laurel conversation while he's lurking and then later when Laurel and Tommy tell him about their relationship, he isn't shocked...but he wasn't shocked when he was lurking either. Then Laurel shines a spotlight on it by pointing out to Tommy that Oliver wasn't surprised at all by the news. In the context of the ep, they wanted you to think it was only about the overheard conversation, but that's just another trick the pilot plays on the audience. Now that we know he was god knows where from 2009-2012, his lack of reaction becomes a lot more clear.

[ban1o]

 

A hint that he returned to Starling City at some point during his time away is in there as well. In the pilot he overhears a Tommy/Laurel conversation while he's lurking and then later when Laurel and Tommy tell him about their relationship, he isn't shocked...but he wasn't shocked when he was lurking either. Then Laurel shines a spotlight on it by pointing out to Tommy that Oliver wasn't surprised at all by the news. In the context of the ep, they wanted you to think it was only about the overheard conversation, but that's just another trick the pilot plays on the audience. Now that we know he was god knows where from 2009-2012, his lack of reaction becomes a lot more clear.

I think overhearing Tommy and Laurel in the pilot was enough to know that they were hooking up and not be shocked .He as very emotionless in the first few episodes and he didn't really have a reason to be mad considering her was "dead." lol  just don't think that really hints he had been in Starling City before. 

 

Also wasn't it implied that they had just started hooking up before Oliver returned Tommy had been mostly a playboy until then. 

Edited December 16, 2014 by ban1o

[dtissagirl]

Those pap pictures look super duper telephoto, so I don't know if it would have picked up "a bit of a spoiler" on his wardrobe. It could be a different mask, or something in his gloves, and no way those pictures show it... but a point blank pic from 4 feet away definitely would.

[looptab]

Eh I'm sure some of them are Colton. You can barely see his face in a lot of them. And the Canadagraph guy was actually there. 

 

Anyway. Why would it be a spoiler to be in his costume though? 

I think those scenes were shot when the crossovers hadn't aired yet. So the upgrades would be spoilery for that time.

 

About  the hints of Oliver not being always on the island, something that cracks me up every time is how not one of the people who must have seen him shirtless before the gambit (Laurel, his mom, Thea) ever questioned where  the hell did he get those tattoos lol.

Edited December 16, 2014 by looptab

[Morrigan2575]

I think those scenes were shot when the crossovers hadn't aired yet. So the upgrades would be spoilery for that time.

 

About  the hints of Oliver not being always on the island, something that cracks me up every time is how not one of the people who must have seen him shirtless before the gambit (Laurel, his mom, Thea) never questioned where  the hell did he get those tattos lol.

Actually that's a really good point.  People keep thinking it's spoilery because of something pertaining to post 309 but if these pictures were taken prior to 308 airing, then yes, the suit upgrade would be a spoiler.

 

Also, you're right about the Tattoos, I forgot to mention that, along with the speaks Russian in the pilot.  The tattoos were a clear giveaway, although I still call BS on Slade giving Oliver the dragon tattoo.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[quarks]

Ban10, "Lone Gunmen" and "Legacies" strongly imply that Laurel and Tommy hooked up shortly after the Queen's Gambit vanished. Both of them felt guilty about this for different reasons, and they broke up until Oliver came back.

[Danny Franks]

About  the hints of Oliver not being always on the island, something that cracks me up every time is how not one of the people who must have seen him shirtless before the gambit (Laurel, his mom, Thea) ever questioned where  the hell did he get those tattoos lol.

 

Laurel and Thea were too busy ogling his chest to really think too much about the tattoos (or the scars actually, looking back at it). Perhaps Moira was too. And you know that Barrowman only stripped Oliver to the waist so he could eyefuck him more thoroughly, at the end of season 1.

 

Seems like no one ever asked about the tattoos though. Not even Felicity, who spends more time looking at Oliver topless than most people. But it still sticks in my craw now that the Shado tattoo was eventually written as being forcibly applied by Slade, when it initially seemed to be an indicator of the depth of Oliver's feelings for Shado. Still, when you're going to fridge a woman, you might as well fridge the emotional connection that went along with her.

[looptab]

 I still call BS on Slade giving Oliver the dragon tattoo.

That was so lame! But they always do that, come up with hints of great things to come and then solve them in the most..not-so-great?ways.

The tattoos thing is hilarious, though. How can they not ask about them?!

 

Danny franks, you're probably right, they were busy ogling ahah. I don't think this applies to Felicity too, though. She didn't know him before, so at first she might have thought he made them before the 5 years away. I'm sure when the time comes and the chinese and the Bratva ones are explained, we might get an explanation in present time, too, to the people in the Foundry, or just Felicity, or whoever will be ;)

Edited December 16, 2014 by looptab

[SonofaBiscuit]

From the Spoilers Only thread, "we're hearing the trio might go more than a few episodes without their hooded leader."  Look, I realize that from spoilers and such, but do they really think that the best way to get people to watch is to advertise that Oliver will be missing for several episodes?  I honestly see this backfiring on them, but that's just me.