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Spoiler Discussion Thread


Morrigan2575
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Felicity's mom is probably going to be notably inappropriate, and visiting the office out of the blue is one aspect of that. But her position means it is fine. I am surprised she got past security, though.

EBR did say that Ray was the kind of boss who understands people have personal lives, so the crying thing will probably be the way they show that. Would not be surprised if Oliver exhibits the opposite during the ep, pointing up the contrast.

I agree with the theory about Oliver disappearing for a while. This season is their do-over of season one, so they may treat it like a mini castaway and then return thing. In that case I expect Felicity to be dating Ray by then. He'll return to find Life Went On Without Him.

I am looking forward to Felicity being in danger that has nothing to do with Oliver. See Oliver, staying away from people is a tradeoff, sometimes it makes them MORE vulnerable.

Edited by ostentatious
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“The crossover (Dec. 2 and 3) pits the supes against each other when The Flash’s Barry has a mood swing and “the only person in Central City who can stop him and hopefully get through to him is Oliver,” Arrow star Stephen Amell teases. “So they have to fight.” Sounds like the handiwork of Baddie Roy G. Bivolo to anyone else?” - Flash vs Arrow! Entertainment Weekly Magazine, November 7 2014 / Issue #1335

 

This sounds super interesting actually! I wonder if his speed affects Barry's mood... Like one second he's happy the next second he's raging? Also, does it make his brain a little more unstable in regards to emotions? Hmm. I guess we'll get the answers in a month. 

Edited by wonderwall
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Oh, I could definitely see Barry's accelerated metabolism messing with his head, but I still don't quite get what Oliver could possibly do to stop him. I know Oliver is good with a bow and all, but what use is an arrow against someone who can cross the city faster than you can blink?

Edited by KirkB
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Oh, I could definitely see Barry's accelerated metabolism messing with his head, but I still don't quite get what Oliver could possibly do to stop him. I know Oliver is good with a bow and all, but what use is an arrow against someone who can cross the city faster than you can blink?

Maybe Oliver is a more experienced fighter? IDK, I suppose we'll see in December :)

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Maybe it's a question also of who Barry respects and listens to.  He does in some way to Joe and Wells but Oliver is a guy he's admired for some time, and the only one to know what it's like being a superhero.

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In one of the flashback promo photos for 3x05, it looks like there's a baseball next to Felicity. I looked up DC comics characters who were baseball players and found one named Fastball http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fastball_(comics) who was created by Gerry Conway (the same person who created Felicity). He was a supervillain who was killed by an OMAC.

 

There's also Sportsmaster http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsmaster, who was Artemis' father.

 

This probably has nothing to do with Felicity though and it's just a baseball :)

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Ah yes...omac. Ostentatious pointed out to me that flashback maybe!cooper has an eye on his shirt. And if you look at comics for omac, the eye is on everything. Remember those sauron/lotr-ish eyes on the tv screen?

It appears they may tie felicity's back story into the thing ray is unknowingly having her help him with. I want to be excited...

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Ah yes...omac. Ostentatious pointed out to me that flashback maybe!cooper has an eye on his shirt. And if you look at comics for omac, the eye is on everything. Remember those sauron/lotr-ish eyes on the tv screen?

 

I think that eye has something to do with Brother Eye, which (I think?) controls the OMACs. Plus, Ray Palmer was looking at a design for an OMAC in 3x03.

Edited by drspaceman10
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If Oliver is really going missing for a couple of episodes,

 I'm anticipating more Laurel and BC trajecotry.It would be a huge mistake IMO. 

@Analyse and Critiqueyou posted this in the Laurel thread and I hadn't heard about this before. Can you expand?

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It was in his interview with the Wall Street Journal (it's on his Facebook page).

This was a page or two back. I think it is more spec as to why but SA clearly has a diminished role for a bit. I'm sure he will make up for it in later eps. However it will be three or four arrow lite episodes this season? It is part of what promoted my Mini novel in the Laurel thread.

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So we have a disjointed Team Arrow, estranged Olicity, lots of Laurel in the Arrow cave, no Sara, a weak (so far) Ra's al Ghul, 50 shades of Ray, boring Hong Kong, and now we're going to potentially have missing/less Oliver (in whatever capacity that means). Do the EPs want me to watch?

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Ah yes...omac. Ostentatious pointed out to me that flashback maybe!cooper has an eye on his shirt. And if you look at comics for omac, the eye is on everything. Remember those sauron/lotr-ish eyes on the tv screen?

It appears they may tie felicity's back story into the thing ray is unknowingly having her help him with. I want to be excited...

You can really see it in this pic (linked, it's gigantic):

http://www.greenarrowtv.com/wp-content/gallery/secret-origin/AR305a_0358b.jpg

I think that one, where he is alone with the laptop, probably follows the one where they're looking at it together, like it's hers and he's snooping into it.

Here is an OMAC (also huge):

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120421121558/marvel_dc/images/9/97/OMAC_Prime_001.jpg

This also looks like the image on all the tv monitors in the 305 trailer:

http://www.greenarrowtv.com/wp-content/gallery/secret-origin-caps/S020A-N05-ARW-110-14.jpg

The thing with Felicity is that she hates mysteries and thinks they need to be solved. If you give her a technical question, she will solve it. Oliver brings her various problems with various bullshit excuses, she solves the problems, because there is something about him she trusts, plus she works for him. Ray wants her to recover the data on a hard drive, he is her boss plus it's his hard drive since he owns the company, she doesn't snoop the data I don't think, she just solves the problem.

So if she was targeted for her genius and this guy was either already her boyfriend and compromised, or he was the one targeting her, and creating this particular virus was solving a problem laid before her and she trusted the guy...I know her, and I know exactly what happened.

We did have that one video clip of what appeared to be the feds rushing them on the street and arresting him. Or maybe they were "arresting" him and he was just being extracted after getting what they needed.

Either way, he was up to something back then. I would guess he's a sort of radicalized type fighting against whatever, but the OMAC eye thing is something the OMACs wear on their chests just where his is. That poster on the wall also says something about cyborgs (Save Earth from the Cyborg something beginning with m, Masters or Menace...?).

In comics the Brother MK I satellite was created to monitor metahumans, and OMECs were humans altered by a virus into assassins that could be controlled by the satellite to assassinate metahumans. They are controlled by the Checkmate organization, which is connected to Waller. It was apparently a nanite virus and the satellite went rogue and started transforming people at will. Just last ep, Oliver uses one of Felicity's nanite-laced arrows to try to track Malcolm, so she plays with nanites, obviously. And her Master's is in Cyber Security and Computer Sciences, so a nanite-based virus that can infiltrate systems and/or protect systems is reasonable.

Interestingly, Checkmate members at various times include Waller, Helena, Roy, Slade, Deadshot, and Vertigo.

If Felicity was a person of interest to Waller even back then, I have a difficult time believing that Oliver had no prior knowledge of her before his arrival back in SC in season one. Of course, I have always had a difficult time believing that, because I have watched tv before. I think that the narrative has always needed there to be lies between Oliver and his LI. They planned Sara being alive as one of/the Big Lie(s) between Oliver and Laurel. They need something big between Oliver and Felicity. And it has to be something ongoing. Just, yo, I used to be an assassin and did very bad things, isn't enough. It has to be personal.

We had AK, I think, at SDCC, saying something about the date/dinner, and that it is difficult when you're in love with someone to tell them things that might make them fall out of love with you. Oliver started to tell her something at dinner. I think it was whatever the Big Lie is between them. Oliver's hesitance with Felicity works so much better for me if it's about not wanting to be with her with something big like that between them, and finally having gotten up the nerve to come clean...and then it is interrupted, and then a few eps later, all this starts to happen and it starts to come out.

Edited by ostentatious
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With the spoilers about SA filming less and the midseason finale will be left off at a literal cliffhanger so my theory for what will happen at the end of the season is:

 

Oliver and Sara's killer (possibly) are on a mountain, they fight with swords and by the end of the episode Oliver will get pushed off a cliff. Team Arrow thinks he's dead and it's all sad, blah blah blah. Then when we get back there'll probably be a time jump of maybe a year. Team Arrow is still Team Arrow except John is out in the field more (and possibly wearing Oliver's leather goods (DR said that he'll be wearing it at one point in an interview I think)), Laurel who has been working out the entire year will have her mask and will help team arrow (ugh), Felicity will still be the eyes and ears. Socially, Laurel will probably be with Grant, Felicity (after a while) will probably be with Ray, and Roy will still be alone (poor guy). Then all of a sudden Oliver arrives at the foundry looking like hell and everyone goes into shock. Then drama ensues. 

 

But yeah, I think there's a fair chance there will be a time jump after the midseason hiatus. Why? The writers love lazy writing. It'll give an opportunity to fast forward Laurel's training, fast forward through Ray courting Felicity and Felicity finally giving in etc. 

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I think a time jump after the midseason finale is very much a possibility, but on the other hand I don't think they would actually do it: it doesn't tie with the story they're telling, where we have present time paralleling the years Oliver went missing. It would mess that up. I see them doing it maybe if they go in a sixth season, then they could have flashbacks on the missing time.

 

ETA: I mean I don't think they would do a significant time jump of a year or more. :)

Edited by looptab
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Don't they normally have a 5 or 6 week time jump over Christmas to match the time they're off the air?  If that's the case, then Oliver could be missing for that period, which would still stress the team out no end and if they don't find him for the first couple of episodes after the break, then they could have been searching for him (or mourning him) for about 2 months before he shows up again, without messing with either the flashback or The Flash cross-over timelines.

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Don't they normally have a 5 or 6 week time jump over Christmas to match the time they're off the air?  If that's the case, then Oliver could be missing for that period, which would still stress the team out no end and if they don't find him for the first couple of episodes after the break, then they could have been searching for him (or mourning him) for about 2 months before he shows up again, without messing with either the flashback or The Flash cross-over timelines.

 Yes, I think this is more likely. 

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We had AK, I think, at SDCC, saying something about the date/dinner, and that it is difficult when you're in love with someone to tell them things that might make them fall out of love with you. Oliver started to tell her something at dinner. I think it was whatever the Big Lie is between them. Oliver's hesitance with Felicity works so much better for me if it's about not wanting to be with her with something big like that between them, and finally having gotten up the nerve to come clean...and then it is interrupted, and then a few eps later, all this starts to happen and it starts to come out.

 

I would absolutely hate that.

 

I think what AK was getting at in that interview is that Oliver has been (and still is) afraid to tell Felicity (and probably anyone who he loves and who loves him) about the things he did while he was away, because he did terrible things when he worked for Waller, and he had to have done terrible things for the Bratva. I think it's more about coming clean about the things that made him who he was when he came back from the island rather than any specific lie between him and Felicity. Oliver is so ready to talk himself out of deserving love - even though Felicity is smart and no doubt knows his past is awful, and would be understanding of what he had to do to survive, he's understandably worried about what bringing all of that out into the open would do to his relationships.

 

I also think AK was overselling in that interview, which is typical. Oliver didn't act like he had a huge secret on his conscience, he just looked hesitant to let her know that he hadn't been on the island the whole time. And we know he was definitely hesitant to tell her that considering she asked him where he learned to fly a plane at the end of "Unthinkable" and it seems like he never answered her question truthfully. That would've been the perfect time to come clean, if he was ready to.

 

He could very well have some big Felicity related secret, but I really hope not. That would ruin things for me, ship-wise.

 

I also agree with everyone else re: the time jump. If there is one, I think it'll be the length of the winter break.

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Hi, I am new to the board and just wanted to speculate with all of you. :)

 

If he does indeed go missing I think it will be for the six weeks and maybe 1/2 episodes at the most. I don't even think we won't see him. We will probably just see the others more. Because he will be seen in flashbacks and usually his storyline triggers those. So if we don't see him why should we see him so much in Hong Kong. Does that make sense?  Additionally, didn't someone say it is 'literally' a cliffhanger. So if the time jump takes place someone has to explain what happened if they don't pick up immediately were they left off. Only Oliver can do that.

 

I do have to admit I was so excited for S3 and it is mostly a complete letdown (for me). I don't understand why the most problematic character gets so much screen time. Would a slow evolution not work better to get people on board? The stuff I liked is not there anymore (Team Arrow) and Sara's death is handled so poorly. (I don't even want to know who killed her, I am just upset about the whole thing) Even the whole identity thing: At the moment it feels as though everyone is ok with who they are. It doesn't feel like everyone is super conflicted and trying to find their place. (Maybe Laurel, but she is mostly angry) 

 

Maybe they are really trying to save everything for 3B, the back half of the season. Maybe then things will finally get interesting and exciting and everything they were trying to sell the audience over the summer will take place. Who knows... Most of the time they are overselling stuff e.g. Ray (so far I am waiting for him to be glorious and his chemistry with EBR to be out of this world, it is alright but nothing more and nothing less)

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I'm thinking if Oliver goes missing, he'll be missing from Team Arrow's POV, not the audience's, and we might see him with Ra's in that brand new set they built for him where the Queen's mansion lobby used to be. :)

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There will be the standard time jump of 5 weeks after mid-winter finale. As people have said it's now a shared universe, a jump on Arrow means a jump on Flash, in addition to the throwing the flashbacks completely off track.

Assuming SA was talking a few episodes in the fall then my guess is he has a limited role until 210-211 (maybe 212) and comes back in time for February Sweeps.

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If he does indeed go missing I think it will be for the six weeks and maybe 1/2 episodes at the most. I don't even think we won't see him. We will probably just see the others more. Because he will be seen in flashbacks and usually his storyline triggers those. So if we don't see him why should we see him so much in Hong Kong. Does that make sense?  Additionally, didn't someone say it is 'literally' a cliffhanger. So if the time jump takes place someone has to explain what happened if they don't pick up immediately were they left off. Only Oliver can do that.

 

But Oliver could still be missing from Starling for several episodes, even if the viewers see him in captivity. I don't want that. It's not just about seeing less of Oliver, it's about seeing less of him with his team. I wouldn't be happy at the thought of any of this in general, but after four episodes of Arrow without the team dynamic I'm used to, and the promise that the rest of 4A will be similarly unhappy, I don't relish the idea of starting off 4B without Oliver in Starling.

 

And I was really skeptical about this line of thought, but now I really think it's gotta be something like this. It looked like CH, EBR, and DR were filming together this weekend, but Stephen wasn't. The supporting cast has posted pictures of themselves together, but I haven't seen Stephen with any of them in awhile. Also, I don't know exactly how their schedule works, because I only "stalk" them by following those four on Twitter and IG, but I know that CH and EBR were up in the mountains the day before Halloween, and then filming on Halloween itself. Seems like the mountain trip was probably for work too? Unless they just felt like taking a 24-hour vacay. Stephen was filming in the mountains a few weeks back too, no shots of any other cast members then, IIRC.

 

Staying positive until we have more info, but I will be sad if Oliver really away from the team for any number of episodes, and I will be livid if there is a significant time jump.

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I'm leaning toward the theory that Nyssa was Sara's killer.  It would be the Big Shocking Twist that producers love.  How would that work?

 

We know from the spoilers that there will be Sara flashbacks this season.  What's the point of having those flashbacks when Sara's dead?  At first I thought they wanted to show side-by-side training sessions of Sara in flashback and Laurel in present.  Now, I think it could be to show motive - how Sara and Nyssa's relationship developed 5 years ago and also what happened during the 5-month hiatus after Season 2.  It could be that the flashbacks will show that Sara became dissatisfied and wanted to leave the LOA again, or that Sara planned to betray the LOA for some reason, or some other reason that led to Ra's al Ghul deciding to terminate Sara.  Ra's could be furious with Nyssa for releasing Sara last season without his permission and wanted to punish Nyssa - or test Nyssa's loyalties.  Nyssa could have been ordered to kill Sara - then Nyssa would be torn between her love for Sara and her love for her father/loyalty to the LOA (works even better if Sara betrayed Nyssa and the LOA in some way).  Nyssa could also have been ordered to frame Malcolm; hence, her appearance in the Arrowcave and pretend surprise at the news of Sara's death. 

 

I've always wondered how Oliver could possibly defeat Ra's and the LOA in order to protect his people and Starling City.  The answer is that he can't realistically defeat Ra's, who is too powerful to kill or imprison.  (The show recently made a point of saying that no prison can hold a LOA member.)  Ra's is a huge figure in the DC universe so he can't be killed off.  The only possible solution is for Ra's and Oliver to reach some kind of stalemate or agreement at the end of the Ra's story arc - perhaps Ra's agrees to leave Starling City alone in return for something or someone, or decides to let Oliver keep Starling City to repay a debt owed to Oliver by the LOA. 

 

However, there needs to be closure to the 'who killed Sara' storyline, so someone needs to be punished.  I can see Ra's making Oliver believe that Nyssa was acting on her own to kill Sara, even though Ra's secretly ordered the kill.  Perhaps Ra's demands that Nyssa and Malcolm be turned over to him, promising that Nyssa will be duly punished for Sara's death, in return for leaving Starling City to Oliver.  As I said, if Oliver knew that Ra's was responsible for Sara's death, then Sara's murderer would have to go unpunished because Oliver can't defeat Ra's.  (I'm not even going to go into the ridiculous possibility that Laurel could be the one to catch/defeat Sara's murderer.)

 

Ra's is both powerful and devious.  I can see him trying to manipulate Oliver, while also manipulating his daughter.  His end goal being to kill Sara, punish Nyssa, and keep Oliver in line.

 

Having Nyssa be Sara's killer could be the culmination of a heartbreaking love story between Nyssa and Sara, involving betrayal and conflict - with Nyssa's loyalty to the LOA & her father ultimately outweighing her love for Sara.  I liken it to the classic mob story when a member of the mob is ordered to kill his disloyal wife (who's gone to the FBI) to prove his loyalty, even though he loves her.

Edited by tv echo
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I'm gonna be afraid of what they will leave out of this episode, 3x05 I mean.

 

Also what if The LOA and Oliver fight, something happens and they save him and  then he goes with them or something?

Edited by olicityfan25
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Yeah, I'm really starting to think the speculation is right and that he leaves town with the league. I saw this quote from EBR the other day and at the time I didn't think anything of it, but if he leaves Starling with the LOA, then it kind of fits. 

 

 

"I think Oliver is like the deep one," she confessed. "There's just so much love for him that she couldn’t imagine not talking to him for the rest of her life ever, and I think that's something to be said." 

Maybe the scene between EBR and SA that AK tweeted about is a goodbye scene with him telling her he's leaving?

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I just thought of something. One thing that might make me not annoyed at a storyline that keeps Oliver away from Team Arrow for multiple episodes is if Oliver isn't captured by Ra's, but is faking it to infiltrate the LoA. Most likely to investigate Sara's murder. Then Oliver could be secretly working with his team, instead of a super angsty storyline of TA thinking Oliver is dead.

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I just thought of something. One thing that might make me not annoyed at a storyline that keeps Oliver away from Team Arrow for multiple episodes is if Oliver isn't captured by Ra's, but is faking it to infiltrate the LoA. Most likely to investigate Sara's murder. Then Oliver could be secretly working with his team, instead of a super angsty storyline of TA thinking Oliver is dead.

Kind of like what Simmons did on AOS with Hail Hydra? Sorry I had to lol always wanted to write Hail Hydra. Because it's so corny but funny.

 

I could see that. I mean they are all in, in finding Sara's killer. Might as well continue them working as a team. Who would have thought? rofl

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Elsewhere in the episode, Ted Grant questions Laurel’s motives and Thea buys an apartment with money from Malcolm, infuriating Oliver.

http://tvline.com/2014/10/31/arrow-season-3-photos-felicitys-mother-charlotte-ross/

 

I'm still uncertain as to why Thea is protecting Malcolm.  Has she been brainwashed by Malcolm or does she feel some loyalty to her father, the mass murderer?  Or has Thea just turned into a selfish, calculating person, who is using Malcolm for his protection and money?  It still irks me that Thea refused to sign those papers last season, bankrupting her family, and then moved from the Queen mansion directly to Malcolm's mansion on Corto Maltese.

Edited by tv echo
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I think a time jump of over the winter break makes a lot of sense.  This show does love it's time jumps to keep pace with the calendar.

 Team Arrow is still Team Arrow except John is out in the field more (and possibly wearing Oliver's leather goods (DR said that he'll be wearing it at one point in an interview I think)), Laurel who has been working out the entire year will have her mask and will help team arrow (ugh), Felicity will still be the eyes and ears. Socially, Laurel will probably be with Grant, Felicity (after a while) will probably be with Ray, and Roy will still be alone (poor guy). Then all of a sudden Oliver arrives at the foundry looking like hell and everyone goes into shock. Then drama ensues. 

 

I'm just imagining David Ramsey trying to fit into Stephen Amell's costume.  Amell's a big guy himself but Ramsey?  LOL

 

 

I'm still uncertain as to why Thea is protecting Malcolm.  Has she been brainwashed by Malcolm or does she feel some loyalty to her father, the mass murderer?

I think it's a combination of both of those.  Emotionally she's still pretty immature and she's been through a lot of trauma.  At the moment, Malcolm is the solid in her life, and that's probably been enhanced by Stockholm syndrome..

 

But mostly it's to create drama in the show, and to have her trained intensively so she can fight later on..

Edited by statsgirl
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Saw a new promo for the next episode. Surprised at how much they showed. Ray meets Mama Smoak in the morning at Felicity's apartment. She is in her PJs and he is in a suit (that's what his third scene?). Mama Smoak made me laugh.

 

Its for sure the Ex. In the promo when she asks who he is, his response is 'I thought you never forget your first love.' - Or it could be tricky editing.

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Saw a new promo for the next episode. Surprised at how much they showed. Ray meets Mama Smoak in the morning at Felicity's apartment. She is in her PJs and he is in a suit (that's what his third scene?). Mama Smoak made me laugh.

 

Where did you see this promo? It feels like a waste to have Ray get to be the one to see Felicity's apartment and meet her mother, because as far as we know he's only a temporary character. Diggle and Oliver have known Felicity for two years and a character who has been there for three episodes gets to see her house/meet her mother?

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Where did you see this promo? It feels like a waste to have Ray get to be the one to see Felicity's apartment and meet her mother, because as far as we know he's only a temporary character. Diggle and Oliver have known Felicity for two years and a character who has been there for three episodes gets to see her house/meet her mother?

 

Yeah, the way they're incorporating him is starting to annoy me, and I'm actually for Felicity getting on with her life and having a love interest that isn't Oliver. Can we see Felicity's place without Ray being there (or anyone but Felicity being there)? Not gonna judge until I see the ep, not gonna judge before I see the ep...

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My understanding of computer codes is nonexistent so I want to ask. That line from Felicity about not being able to stop the virus and her answer "because I wrote it five years ago," does that make sense? If she wrote it, wouldn't she know how to stop it? Or maybe it's been altered too much? Or maybe that's not even how the scene really goes ...

 

I've seen the clip about 5 times and Mama Smoak's wave and squeal crack me up. And Felicity's baffled, slightly scared reaction? Totally relatable, LOL! But yeah, why the heck is Ray at her place that early in the morning (assuming those are pajamas she's wearing; she could easily be wearing a yoga outfit and it's a weekend afternoon)? *wails* Why isn't it Wednesday yet?!?! 

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Omg I love Mama Smoak already. Also I don't like how Ray is at Felicity's house when we haven't even seen Oliver or Digg there. Wtf. Not liking this one bit.

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My understanding of computer codes is nonexistent so I want to ask. That line from Felicity about not being able to stop the virus and her answer "because I wrote it five years ago," does that make sense? If she wrote it, wouldn't she know how to stop it? Or maybe it's been altered too much? Or maybe that's not even how the scene really goes ...

 

 

I'm not too familiar with codes too, but i suppose it is possible that it was written in a way that makes it very hard or even impossible to destroy.

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My understanding of computer codes is nonexistent so I want to ask. That line from Felicity about not being able to stop the virus and her answer "because I wrote it five years ago," does that make sense? If she wrote it, wouldn't she know how to stop it? Or maybe it's been altered too much? Or maybe that's not even how the scene really goes ...

 

Yeah, I'm hoping that's not the way it actually goes. Yeah, Felicity could write a Fort Knox-esque program that is impossible to hack, but as its creator she should be able to stop it - no one would be stupid enough to write a destructive program that they themselves couldn't stop. Unless her boyfriend at the time was a great hacker too, and he somehow altered it. IDK

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