Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

There are non-evil reasons for her to set up an easy-to-follow trail onto her computer, main one being to confirm her suspicions that Oliver is the Green Arrow, since he made it obvious when she confronted him that he wasn't going to tell her. Common sense would indicate that the computer whiz he used to be engaged to and is still in contact with helps him out in his vigilante endeavor, but maybe Susan realizes he's a simp who would need some breadcrumbs if he was working alone. The info she has disappearing pretty much confirms he's the Green Arrow, even though she can't prove it. 

I'd love for there to be more to that - especially since her getting fired for plagiarism does not wash AT ALL - but I'm guessing the whole easy-to-hack thing was set up simply so Susie would be the butt of a joke. 

[Morrigan2575]

44 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I'd love for there to be more to that - especially since her getting fired for plagiarism does not wash AT ALL - but I'm guessing the whole easy-to-hack thing was set up simply so Susie would be the butt of a joke. 

Don't get your hopes up ?

I'm still wait and see because for the life of me I still can't make sense of it. Honestly, if you ignore all the interviews about "all in" and "genuine feelings" what's in show has nothing "good" about Susan. 

I think it's really interesting that most reviewers think Susan is shady as he'll and, that Oliver is an idiot.

I'm left to question what's real. What I see or what they're telling me?

[apinknightmare]

9 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I'm left to question what's real. What I see or what they're telling me?

I guess maybe there's more to it that we might see in the next ep? Otherwise that "all in" business was/is a real mess. As it stands now - and I doubt there's anything they can show onscreen that would change my mind after the last ep - it just looks like she was with him for the story, and he's a fool with some kind of lukewarm, kinda-there feelings.

[statsgirl]

It's a good theory.  Do I think the writers are smart enough to pull it off?  After watching this season, I'm doubtful.

Please let it be Curtis and Rene to disband.  Would Rene really be stupid enough to go off on his own?  Maybe he can team up with Curtis.

Diggle has no reason at this point to give up on Oliver and if Felicity stayed through last summer she's probably going to stay unless Oliver pushes her too hard and given SA's last interview and MG's song choice it doesn't sound like that's going to happen.

One of my big hesitations is the failure in the last episode to tie Thea going after Susan to Oliver's refusal to listen to her and everyone forgetting that Billy was Felicity's boyfriend.  Prometheus' schtick was supposed to be that Oliver ruins the lives of those who are close to him but the writers seem to already have forgotten that.  So it's doubtful the disbanding push will come from  him.

12 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Honestly, if you ignore all the interviews about "all in" and "genuine feelings" what's in show has nothing "good" about Susan. 

This.  Basically it's just WM trying to see that Susan is a good person and her interviews have very little credibility to me.  SA's interviews tend to be more about Oliver trying to move on and build a life for himself (and not look like an idiot for dating Susan).

[Cleanqueen]

I don't know if it was mentioned here or somewhere else but what if Susan is indeed that favour that Anatoly asked Oliver to take care of...what if Thea getting involved disrupted whatever plan Oliver was taking care of. This to me would explain why he was angry with Thea and at the same time feel worried that she's making scary choices and why he didn't really react to her knowing his secret that much. I don't know but I feel like we'll get a lot of our answers regarding Susan this week. 

[Chaser]

I'm going to ignore what WM said about the relationship because it's WM. 

The jist of what SA said was that it wouldn't be an Isabel situation and that there would be feelings. Technically 5x14 fit that bill. She didn't betray him. He said he cared about her (they may have been also trying to show feelings on her part but that was a miss). The 'dynamic' SA talked about doesn't have to be romantic. It could be in the fallout of 5x14.

That's a hopeful spin on it, but I'm prepared for them to get back together for a few more episodes at least. And I'm still thinking it won't make any sense.

[insomniadreams88]

Well, going by the 515 photos, Oliver and Susan are going to have some sort of talk ... which looks like it could take place only a few feet away from every other (actually-good-there-for-all-the-big-stories) reporter in Star City, so that should be ... something? Will it be about their "relationship"? Will it be her trying to get an exclusive? (She does have her notebook out, right?) I think the only thing we can know for certain right now is it will most likely be a mess. And if necessary, no one will hear it even if they're standing only a couple of inches away. 

Edited February 27, 2017 by insomniadreams88

[tv echo]

I've been reading some media speculation that Prometheus might be a woman. I doubt that it's Susan.  And if Prometheus turns out to be Talia, then it will be a total copy of S2 where the Big Bad turns out to be a former flashback friend/ally of Oliver.  However, I can see the motivation.  Talia helped Oliver in the past. Then she learns that in the present day, he killed her (estranged?) father, Ra's, partly due to skills that he learned from her. Cue the guilt and anger.

BUT - that reveal would be inconsistent with previous EP/cast comments...

Quote

-- WM: "[Season 5's villain] is somebody Oliver unwittingly created in Season 1 when he was a killer in a hood... This guy is going to be collateral damage who lost someone to the Hood and [has] spent the last several years training and plotting for revenge. He will be a true dark mirror to Oliver Queen." (Scan of Arrow page from July 19, 2016 TV Guide Comic-Con Special issue, page 40 of Spoilers thread)

Quote

-- WM: "We wanted this season for Oliver to take on a villain that he had never encountered before, and what we like about Prometheus was understanding that he too lost his father... He is determined to make the man who took his father's life pay. We wanted someone to be as close in his backstory to Oliver as we could create." Per WM, we haven't learned everything there is to know about Prometheus just yet: "There are a couple more surprises in store." (Jan. 25, 2017 Eonline article, page 52 of Spoilers thread)

Quote

-- Per WM, Prometheus is an “uber-villain” whose ultimate goal is to prove to Oliver that “he’s not the hero he thinks he is. ... However he can do that -- by hurting the people around Oliver, by hurting the people who work with him -- he’s gonna do that... It’s more of a psychological game, he doesn’t want to kill anybody necessarily, but his ends are to bring Oliver to his knees.” (Jan. 25, 2017 ETonline article, page 52 of Spoilers thread)

Quote

-- WM: “There is absolutely more to the mystery… We’ve never dealt with anybody like this... He’s really playing the long game, and it’s a very long, psychological con that he’s pulling on Oliver. He’s really smart. He’s really good at what he does. So there’s a lot more mystery to unravel in the back half of the season.” (Jan. 25, 2017 ETonline article, page 52 of Spoilers thread)

Quote

-- Brian Ford Sullivan: "Prometheus's origins are to things back to what Oliver did when he first came back [from] the island in season 1 and sort of the triple down effect of what Oliver was doing, um, as a killer, as a vigilante - all these dark things he did that actually produced this thing out there that is now sort of coming back to seek revenge." (Sep. 19, 2016 S5 "A Sneak Peek" video, page 44 of Spoilers thread)

Quote

-- James Bamford: "There’s a duality happening with Prometheus’ origin in a way with Oliver. Oliver and Prometheus are basically a yin and yang, if you will. Two sides of a coin. I can’t really go into the approach of the character without giving too much away." (Nov. 30, 2016 CBR article, page 49 of Spoiler thread)

Quote

-- SA: "One of the things that we do this year that I think is very cool is that the villain, the Big Bad this year, was created by Oliver. It was created based off of Oliver's actions in season 1. I think that's a cool place to take the show."  (SDCC, Jul. 23, 2016: Nerdophiles video of press roundtable interview with SA, page 40 of Spoilers thread)

Quote

-- SA: "And the villain, the eventual villain that we find this year, is the result of Oliver's actions when he returned to Star City at the beginning of the series." (SDCC, Jul. 23, 2016: Video of IGN interview with SA, EBR and DR, page 40 of Spoilers thread and page 178 of Starling City Times thread)

So unless they were all lying in past interviews, Prometheus is going to be a male character who lost his father to Oliver in S1. However, it's still possible that he is working with or related to Talia in some way.  At this point, I think that Prometheus can only be one of the following: (1) a new guy who we haven't seen yet; (2) a guy who we saw in S1 but haven't seen yet this season; (3) Adrian Chase (with multiple personalities, as others have suggested, since the Vigilante is unaware that Oliver is the GA); or (4) a not-quite-dead Billy Malone.

Edited February 27, 2017 by tv echo

[LadyChaos]

We have to remember that if they have changed their mind on the direction of her character, or were forced too,  everything that was said up to the filming of 514 would be null and void.

 

also no one stays dead on this show..... Billy is Prometheus.....that is my 97.5% vote since I don't want to eat a shoe.

Edited February 27, 2017 by LadyChaos

[apinknightmare]

5 hours ago, Cleanqueen said:

I don't know if it was mentioned here or somewhere else but what if Susan is indeed that favour that Anatoly asked Oliver to take care of...what if Thea getting involved disrupted whatever plan Oliver was taking care of. This to me would explain why he was angry with Thea and at the same time feel worried that she's making scary choices and why he didn't really react to her knowing his secret that much. I don't know but I feel like we'll get a lot of our answers regarding Susan this week. 

If they're going to tie Susan to Russia (which I'm guessing they are given all the Russian anvils and the fact that she said she was working on another story when she came across info that placed Oliver there), then I'm guessing she could be the favor that Anatoly asked Oliver to take care of. Although if she was sniffing around the Bratva, I'm not sure why he'd come home and do the one thing (sleep with her) that would give her the info she needed to tie him to it - unless that was the point for whatever reason. It's also makes things gross sexually, since he'd be sleeping with her for his agenda, but she's sleeping with him for hers so IDK if that really changes anything. It's also about the time of year where his past will start showing up in his present.

Edited February 27, 2017 by apinknightmare

[AyChihuahua]

26 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

If they're going to tie Susan to Russia (which I'm guessing they are given all the Russian anvils and the fact that she said she was working on another story when she came across info that placed Oliver there), then I'm guessing the favor that Anatoly asked Oliver to take care of. Although if she was sniffing around the Bratva, I'm not sure why he'd come home and do the one thing (sleep with her) that would give her the info she needed to tie him to it - unless that was the point for whatever reason. It's also makes things gross sexually, since he'd be sleeping with her for his agenda, but she's sleeping with him for hers so IDK if that really changes anything. It's also about the time of year where his past will start showing up in his present.

Dumb question, but couldn't the tie-in anvils just be because she was/is investigating his time in Russia?

(Aside, good lord I hope he didn't bang her for an agenda. It's gross enough when she does it, but idgaf about her. I'd strongly prefer the hero not enter into a seemingly-sincere relationship for that reason.)

[Cleanqueen]

22 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

If they're going to tie Susan to Russia (which I'm guessing they are given all the Russian anvils and the fact that she said she was working on another story when she came across info that placed Oliver there), then I'm guessing the favor that Anatoly asked Oliver to take care of. Although if she was sniffing around the Bratva, I'm not sure why he'd come home and do the one thing (sleep with her) that would give her the info she needed to tie him to it - unless that was the point for whatever reason. It's also makes things gross sexually, since he'd be sleeping with her for his agenda, but she's sleeping with him for hers so IDK if that really changes anything. It's also about the time of year where his past will start showing up in his present.

Yeah they're both sleeping with each other for that so it's disgusting either way. But I get it since she kept bringing up the fact that they haven't slept together and he would need to do that in order to not cast any suspicions from her side...Perhaps explains why he was also looking like he was dead inside.

I was rewatching the scene where she asked him if he was the GA and how he joked so easily, Oliver usually doesn't joke that easily so it's like he was somewhat prepared and his face at the end looked more like "whoops that was close one" rather than "I can't believe she asked if I was the GA"

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Dumb question, but couldn't the tie-in anvils just be because she was/is investigating his time in Russia?

Absolutely! I just wasn't sure if her saying that she came across the info that he was in Russia while she was working on another story was a throwaway line or an indication that she was working on some other Russian story that was somehow gonna bring his past into the present (whether that's what Anatoly wanted him to "take care of" or not), or something along those lines.

[AyChihuahua]

4 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Absolutely! I just wasn't sure if her saying that she came across the info that he was in Russia while she was working on another story was a throwaway line or an indication that she was working on some other Russian story that was somehow gonna bring his past into the present (whether that's what Anatoly wanted him to "take care of" or not), or something along those lines.

I wonder if it could be both. Maybe Anatoly heard someone was poking around in Bratva business, but didn't know who? So Oliver slept with her for whatever stupid but sincere reason, totally unrelated to Bratva, and later Anatoly finds out/tells Oliver that she's the nosy parker he has to take care of.

(And then Oliver snaps her neck.

Lemme dream...I REALLY don't like her.)

Edited February 27, 2017 by AyChihuahua

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Absolutely! I just wasn't sure if her saying that she came across the info that he was in Russia while she was working on another story was a throwaway line or an indication that she was working on some other Russian story that was somehow gonna bring his past into the present (whether that's what Anatoly wanted him to "take care of" or not), or something along those lines.

I thought it was just her lying because she didn't want to say she was investigating him so she could come across as the victim. 

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I thought it was just her lying because she didn't want to say she was investigating him so she could come across as the victim. 

I think she must've been investigating something in Russia, because how else would she (or her PI, I can't remember) come up with a random pic of Oliver with some Bratva dudes, even if she was investigating him on his own? Though to be fair, I thought 5x05 was terrible and never rewatched it, so I could be wrong about the circumstances under which the pic came into play - I really don't remember her conversation with the private investigator.

Edited February 27, 2017 by apinknightmare

[LadyChaos]

13 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I think she must've been investigating something in Russia, because how else would she (or her PI, I can't remember) come up with a random pic of Oliver with some Bratva dudes, even if she was investigating him on his own? Though to be fair, I thought 5x05 was terrible and never rewatched it, so I could be wrong about the circumstances under which the pic came into play - I really don't remember her conversation with the private investigator.

It was the human target that caught her interest. Somehow she knew of him and guessed that was how Oliver faked his death. That's what caused her to look toward Russia fornstuff about Oliver. Although I don't know how she knew of human targets Russian connection.

 

personally I think we will see a return of the Human Target yet. It's the most viable answer as to how Malone could have faked his death if he is Prometheus and it's the connection Susan followed to Russia.

Edited February 27, 2017 by LadyChaos

[Cleanqueen]

Why hasn't anyone asked these producers about a possible return for HT? 

[LadyChaos]

5 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

Why hasn't anyone asked these producers about a possible return for HT? 

Someone could still ask him.... I have a private twitter acct so I can't 

[statsgirl]

As much as I like the idea that Susan is the problem that Anatoly asked Oliver to take care of for him, it doesn't explain why Oliver only slept with her after he got back from Russia.  That makes it a whole lot more gross than if she was just someone he was stupidly dating.

1 hour ago, LadyChaos said:

It was the human target that caught her interest. Somehow she knew of him and guessed that was how Oliver faked his death. That's what caused her to look toward Russia for stuff about Oliver. Although I don't know how she knew of human targets Russian connection.

But was there enough time?  She meets with her CI at the end of the episode so presumably she had asked him to get info on Oliver much earlier. Didn't she tell Thea in 5x03 that she was working on an expose of Oliver?

[insomniadreams88]

4 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Didn't she tell Thea in 5x03 that she was working on an expose of Oliver?

Possibly, though I refuse to rewatch any of Susan's scenes to check. Then there's the original casting announcement: 

Quote

"Susan Williams, a journalist from nearby Coast City who comes to Star City “looking to make a name for herself” by targeting Oliver Queen (Stephen Amell) for a big story."

So based on that, she's specifically in Star City to write about Oliver, which is why I think she was lying about coming across any information about him when looking into another story. 

But who knows what we might get in 515 and the rest of her episodes. Who knows what we'll see, if we'll see her meeting with her PI again, what she'll tell Oliver, etc. 

[lemotomato]

2 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

It's also makes things gross sexually, since he'd be sleeping with her for his agenda, but she's sleeping with him for hers so IDK if that really changes anything.

The show doesn't seem to care about how gross it is that Susan is sleeping with/dating Oliver for a story, so I imagine if Oliver is doing the same thing, we're not supposed to judge him harshly either.

Is it grosser because Oliver is supposed to be the hero? Sure, but then again, he has a history of done really sketchy things for the sake of a mission-- kidnapping Lyla, marrying Nyssa, letting his friends think he betrayed them and left them to die, handing over the LoA to Merlyn. 

[apinknightmare]

20 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Didn't she tell Thea in 5x03 that she was working on an expose of Oliver?

No, I don't think so. She did give Oliver (Human Target) 30 days to prove his worthiness as mayor to her under the threat of her reporting out unfavorably on his administration, and then she slipped him her number - and she mentioned the 30-day reprieve again to real Oliver - IIRC, that's when Thea warned him off of her since she could ruin his career, and he said he hadn't done anything "yet." So, she did give him fair warning that she planned on doing what she did, haha.

3 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Is it grosser because Oliver is supposed to be the hero? Sure, but then again, he has a history of done really sketchy things for the sake of a mission-- kidnapping Lyla, marrying Nyssa, letting his friends think he betrayed them and left them to die, handing over the LoA to Merlyn. 

 If Susan IS the thing that Anatoly asked him to take care of, then Oliver's insistence that she wouldn't actually rat him out makes even less sense since there would have to be enough of a worry where she's concerned to have Anatoly make Oliver aware of her and ask him to do something about her. Unless I guess making himself vulnerable is part of the plan (although why it would be I have no idea) or Oliver plans on blackmailing her to keep her quiet, but it seems to me that he would've done that pretty shortly after she came clean about the info she had on him and it doesn't appear that he did.

Ugh, this show.

[statsgirl]

No matter how I look at it, the whole Oliver/Susan thing is gross.

At least now we don't have to try to figure out how they have real feelings for each other so there's that.

[finnaire]

So, I'm pretty sure the first time Susan met with her informant and he showed her the picture of Oliver in Russia he used the word database.  He said something like, "I looked through the database at HT's activities."   It's one of the reasons why I thought he was some kind of government agent. But, now, I'm wondering if he could be connected to Helix.  If someone remembers what episode that was in, I'll go back and rewatch to confirm.

I don't think he's just a random character.  They shown Susan meeting with him twice. I think he might serve another purpose.

Of course, Oliver just suddenly picked up a new assistant at the mayor's office whom we've also now seen twice. Maybe he'll turn out to be Prometheus.

[bijoux]

It was 505, Human Target.

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, finnaire said:

Of course, Oliver just suddenly picked up a new assistant at the mayor's office whom we've also now seen twice. Maybe he'll turn out to be Prometheus.

I feel like the only reason they gave Oliver an assistant is because they made Rene Lance's - and it would be really weird for the mayor to not have an assistant but his deputy mayor to have one. Plus, it gives Thea someone to use as a spy. 

Now Oliver just needs to replace his security detail with people who won't tell reporters his whereabouts. 

[LeighAn]

One Id love it in a mockable this is fun way of Olivers random assistant is Prometheus haha.

Itd remind me of that Buffy episode where it turned out the Lunch Lady was going to kill the entire Senior Class haha.

[weathered1]

If Oliver chose to sleep with her as part of some kind of long con, I'm sure the writers are counting on viewers thinking that's manly and/or heroic. Because they're dolts. Meanwhile, count me in the group who finds it be gross. 

There is a (recent) precedent for Oliver doing unpleasant favors for Anatoly, so it's not out of the question that he could be doing so again. If he is investigating Susan (if that's what the kids are calling it these days), then that still brings back the issue of him refusing to learn lessons re: keeping his team/friends in the dark. So if his anger at Thea was because she'd screwed up his plan, then it's his own fault because he should've told the people closest to him (who could've helped him) instead of being a secretive douche who gets pissed that the people from whom he's keeping valuable information are trying to protect him from himself and his poor judgment. 

I honestly do think HT will be involved in things somehow, someway before the seasons ends. Granted, the decisions these writers make are largely inexplicable, but I don't think they'd introduce a character like that for seemingly no good reason and then just drop it, particularly after he'd had experience "being" Oliver. 

[BkWurm1]

42 minutes ago, weathered1 said:

I honestly do think HT will be involved in things somehow, someway before the seasons ends. Granted, the decisions these writers make are largely inexplicable, but I don't think they'd introduce a character like that for seemingly no good reason and then just drop it, particularly after he'd had experience "being" Oliver. 

Maybe it's time to start stalking the movement and social media of the guy that played Human Target. 

[finnaire]

I haven't seen any indication that Oliver is carrying on a long con with Susan, at least not one that required  sleeping with her. I think we really are supposed to think that it happened because of "feelings", which I do see on his side (not get, mind you) but not at all on hers. I was actually quite impressed with her ability to lay a thick guilt trip on him for the loss of her job while also sounding righteous about losing the opportunity to out him in a big, splashy expose. Well done.

So, here's the transcript of her first meeting with the "PI":

Informant:  I thought we agreed the last time was the last time, Susan.
S: I know, but then I remembered my money was still good and you still like gambling a bit too much. What do you have for me, [Ian]?
I: The guy who took the bullets for Mayor Queen was Christopher Chance.  
S: Felt like his work.
I: I think I figured out how Queen knows him.
S: Really?
I: I went through the database on the details of Chance’s past ops. Came across this little beauty (shows her the photo). Recognize your boy?  That was taken five years ago when Oliver Queen was supposedly stranded on a deserted island.
S: (Smirk). End Scene.

So, unless you can go to www.superheroeventscalendar.com somebody's tracking and maintaining records elsewhere.  And, that guy is not a PI. 

[BkWurm1]

4 minutes ago, finnaire said:

I haven't seen any indication that Oliver is carrying on a long con with Susan, at least not one that required  sleeping with her. I think we really are supposed to think that it happened because of "feelings", which I do see on his side (not get, mind you) but not at all on hers. I was actually quite impressed with her ability to lay a thick guilt trip on him for the loss of her job while also sounding righteous about losing the opportunity to out him in a big, splashy expose. Well done.

So, here's the transcript of her first meeting with the "PI":

Informant:  I thought we agreed the last time was the last time, Susan.
S: I know, but then I remembered my money was still good and you still like gambling a bit too much. What do you have for me, [Ian]?
I: The guy who took the bullets for Mayor Queen was Christopher Chance.  
S: Felt like his work.
I: I think I figured out how Queen knows him.
S: Really?
I: I went through the database on the details of Chance’s past ops. Came across this little beauty (shows her the photo). Recognize your boy?  That was taken five years ago when Oliver Queen was supposedly stranded on a deserted island.
S: (Smirk). End Scene.

So, unless you can go to www.superheroeventscalendar.com somebody's tracking and maintaining records elsewhere.  And, that guy is not a PI. 

I wonder if Thea or anyone is concerned about where Susan got her info.  Susan is discredited but why couldn't her source sell the info somewhere else?  

[weathered1]

The long con is, well, a longshot, but given this show, it wouldn't be a huge surprised if they decided to play that card out of nowhere. 

As far as Oliver's "feelings" (good grief) for the world's worst and shadiest reporter are concerned, I wonder if it's supposed to tie into the frustration he voiced in the Bratva episode, where he was sulking because he was back to being a "thug," which could also tie into his constant juggling of being Oliver Queen and GA. If he'd been feeling frustrated about so much of his life revolving around the latter, I wonder what the odds are that the writers will say he looks at the "relationship" (which will never not deserve air quotes) with the reporter as being his way of living OQ's life instead of being mired in the violence and darkness of GA since she's not in any way tied to that (that he knows of). In other words, being with her was his attempt at normalcy, at having something/someone in his life that didn't have a thing to do with vengeance, death, and all the rest of it. 

Do I think that's stupid? You bet. Would I put it past this show? No. 

My fear about this next episode is that we find out that the reporter is at the press conference because he specifically invited her in an attempt to help her resurrect her career, and that pic of their conversation is him saying that he wants to do a sit down, exclusive interview about the impeachment . . . and possibly other big, news-making things. Sigh. I can't put into words how much I don't want those things to be the case. 

[insomniadreams88]

I don't want anyone doing anything to help that reporter or her career in any way. I can name at least 10 things they'd be better off spending the time and resources focused on than her. 

[finnaire]

In show, even if Oliver is "all in" and wants to patch things up where does he think their "relationship" is going? And, if Suzy is on the up and up, why on earth would she want to have anything to do with him?  Where do they take this "relationship"?  He gives her the big story so she can be vindicated and then they continue to date (possibly with conjugal visits)? He doesn't tell her, continues to lie, she pretends to believe him and then they just going on dating?  He tells her, she's so "all in" she can't bring herself to reveal his secret and they live happily everafter? He doesn't tell her, she exposes him anyway and he's still so overcome with "all in" that he forgives her anyway and they date until that big shiny promotion in Hub City comes through and it turns out she wasn't quite as "all in" as she had led him to believe?  She needs to be evil so my hate gets the justification it deserves or she needs to get a new job elsewhere so I can forget I ever met her.  She just better not become victim to some foul misdeed ending in major tragedy because I do not need to be subjected to any period of mourning for this character. I've suffered enough.

Edited February 28, 2017 by finnaire

[BkWurm1]

Quote

 

 If he'd been feeling frustrated about so much of his life revolving around the latter, I wonder what the odds are that the writers will say he looks at the "relationship" (which will never not deserve air quotes) with the reporter as being his way of living OQ's life instead of being mired in the violence and darkness of GA since she's not in any way tied to that (that he knows of). In other words, being with her was his attempt at normalcy, at having something/someone in his life that didn't have a thing to do with vengeance, death, and all the rest of it. 

Do I think that's stupid? You bet. Would I put it past this show? No. 

 

It's really not far from what I assumed we were given.  Oliver trying to have a "normal" life outside of the mission.  And him returning from Russia after feeling like he was slipping backwards and then sleeping with Susan was him trying to put his past in the past and move forward with life.  Only worst choice ever.

It comforts me that after constipated face he then avoids and cancels several dates with her.  

[wonderwall]

Just a thought, maybe when Wendy was talking about Oliver being 'all in' she just meant... little Oliver was... all in... places? Because it doesn't seem Oliver was in the relationship emotionally considering he was forced into having sex with Susan, he kept canceling on her, and didn't really react to Susan investigating him saying whatever will happen with Susan will happen... Doesn't really sound like a guy who's all in.

Maybe the writers wanted Oliver to be with the WORST person in the world (yes, she's worse than Samantha) to show that Oliver/Felicity isn't the worst pairing in the world to the antis lmao

Edited February 28, 2017 by wonderwall

[tangerine95]

I really thought all in meant they have sex tbh. If I remember right she talked about that when asked did they hook up in 5. 09. For me actually all in means like being in love, really moving on and planning or imagining a future with her etc.Basically the only relationship we've seen him like that in was with Felicity and I don't think anything with Susan is even close so I don't see an all in at all really. 

Edited February 28, 2017 by tangerine95

[weathered1]

I agree that the "all in" meant sex, as in the first time he physically moved beyond his previous relationship. I think any "all in" feelings he's supposed to have would 100% be him trying to force himself to feel something, anything for a "normal" (in terms of the life she supposedly leads), not-associated-with-his-darkness woman. 

I haven't seen any hint of actual feelings on her side of the equation, and I can't decide if the utter lack of anything between them, regardless of what is stated in interviews, is a fault of the writing, the acting (and SA and CP not working well together), or both. It's probably both. 

I said awhile back that maybe this "relationship" was being written and portrayed so terribly in order to make Oliver's next love interest - be that Felicity or anyone else - look infinitely better by comparison. I definitely think that's the way the writers would operate. 

[weathered1]

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

It's really not far from what I assumed we were given.  Oliver trying to have a "normal" life outside of the mission.  And him returning from Russia after feeling like he was slipping backwards and then sleeping with Susan was him trying to put his past in the past and move forward with life.  Only worst choice ever.

It comforts me that after constipated face he then avoids and cancels several dates with her.  

Yep, and him pushing back so hard when it comes to Thea voicing her (very real) concerns about the reporter and then taking action against her to save him from himself is him desperately clinging to the notion that he can be "normal," too. In his mind, I think the reporter is his last chance to prove to himself that he can be both OQ and GA, and he can keep the former separate from the latter. So the push back isn't really about Susan at all, it's about him being scared that his last chance at normalcy is slipping away (or being taken from him). It still doesn't make him look any smarter, and the fact that he keeps having the same internal struggles and re-learning the same lessons would not make me look upon the writers favorably, if I still felt inclined to do so. Which I don't. At all.

 

FWIW, if they do go that route, I can very easily see that being expressed in a conversation with Felicity, as in after the reporter officially hits the bricks, Felicity approaches him and says she's sorry about his "relationship," and he explains the above to her. That could also be when she explains that she understands now why he's kept secrets. Whether that would lead to a reconciliation, I don't know because I do think some rebuilding is required before that happens (whether the writers would agree with that is debatable), but it could at least lead to that door reopening. Would it stay open or would it fall victim to the end of the season "twists" or flashforwards or what . . . who knows.

Edited February 28, 2017 by weathered1

[LadyChaos]

I assumed that Oliver doesn't really, deep down, think Susan is a good person and want to be with her. I think what is really going on is that he wants to move on from Felicity so bad, as she apparently has done from him, that he is forcing himself to care about the idea of who he wants Susan to be. Which is someone that is more like Felicity,( I. E. Smart, sexy, good person, keeps him on his toes, and sees the real him. ) He wants Susan to be his 'new light in the darkness' so bad so he can move on that he doesn't really see what she she actually is.

Up until he knew about Billy and Felicity he still hoped he and Felicity could get back together, and wasn't it in the next episode that he started hanging out with Rita Skeeter? 

[LeighAn]

1 minute ago, LadyChaos said:

I assumed that Oliver doesn't really, deep down, think Susan is a good person and want to be with her. I think what is really going on is that he wants to move on from Felicity so bad, as she apparently has done from him, that he is forcing himself to care about the idea of who he wants Susan to be. Which is someone that is more like Felicity,( I. E. Smart, sexy, good person, keeps him on his toes, and sees the real him. ) He wants Susan to be his 'new light in the darkness' so bad so he can move on that he doesn't really see what she she actually is.

Up until he knew about Billy and Felicity he still hoped he and Felicity could get back together, and wasn't it in the next episode that he started hanging out with Rita Skeeter? 

Pretty much agree.

As soon as Oliver asked if Felicity was keeping the door open for them and she said no, I think that told Oliver he had to let Felicity go and try and find happiness elsewhere because from his perspective Felicity had moved on and Lo and behold Susan walks in to his life and pursues him.

Which is why I'm hoping that as part of the rebuild/switch to Olicity that they have a conversation where Felicity admits it wasn't real with Billy and that she herself was trying to force/project an idea on Billy then actually having genuine feelings. 

[statsgirl]

The longer and more idiotic Oliver is with Susan, the less I want him back with Felicity.  Well done, Arrow writers, you spoiled the thing that grabbed me into the show.

I'm expecting Oliver to try to get Susan back her job in some way, either through an exclusive or pulling strings, because he feels guilty she lost it.  And guilty is nourishment to him.

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I'm expecting Oliver to try to get Susan back her job in some way, either through an exclusive or pulling strings, because he feels guilty she lost it. 

I think Thea's gonna try and undo what she did last week, nonsensical as the whole thing was.

[tv echo]

8 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Maybe it's time to start stalking the movement and social media of the guy that played Human Target. 

Well, Wil Traval just did a comic-con in February (can't find any video or reports) and is doing another comic-con in April...

Pensacon: Pensacola Comic Con, February 17-19, 2017 (FL)
http://pensacon.com

The Great Philadelphia Comic-Con, April 7-9, 2017 (Philadelphia, PA)
http://www.philadelphiacomiccon.com/guests-and-artists/wil-traval.html

And here's his twitter account:
https://twitter.com/wiltraval

[Scribbles]

Could it all be as simple as:

Prometheus wants to break Oliver by showing him how those close to him are hurt by being close to him.  Thus, they (the writers) need someone close to Oliver, to be the hurtee.  The quandary = finding someone close to Oliver to be the hurt one who hasn't already been targeted so many times it is redundant.  Cue, new love interest who can be someone close to be hurt.  To make the new "someone close to be hurt" interesting, Susan is a shady reporter targeting Oliver herself.  The writers needed new fodder for the villain canon.  The fodder needed to be important enough to Oliver to matter but not so important it meant disposing of a biggie on the show. 

[tv echo]

^ ^ ^ Once again, sacrificing character for plot... which means you're probably right.

[insomniadreams88]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

The longer and more idiotic Oliver is with Susan, the less I want him back with Felicity.  Well done, Arrow writers, you spoiled the thing that grabbed me into the show.

I'm expecting Oliver to try to get Susan back her job in some way, either through an exclusive or pulling strings, because he feels guilty she lost it.  And guilty is nourishment to him.

Yeah, that's the problem with this relationship - it's making me want to see Oliver alone. I don't want this Oliver with Felicity. I think Felicity deserves so much better. (Side note: at the end of last night's Supergirl, when both Kara and Alex had people to lean on - whether you like them with those people or not - I couldn't help but think that Felicity deserved to have someone like that too. Instead, we got that horrible Felicity all alone at the end of 509 scene. Have we ever gotten anything like that for Felicity? Not that I can think of, even with everything she's gone through. And who knows what might happen in the next few episodes.) 

I just have to wonder if Oliver even considers that getting Susan back her job - after she was fired, which will probably be public knowledge or at least known amongst the rest of the media - means that if she decides to move forward with the story she was planning to, people are more apt to believe her. Before, it could have been, "Oh, come on, those photos could have been photoshopped, he was on an island, OQ as GA has been disproved, remember Roy, etc." Now, it can be, "Well, she was fired then reinstated. Maybe someone was trying to discredit her. Maybe we should take a closer look?" 

[LadyChaos]

Am I the only one that thinks that Oliver comforting Felicity after he killed Billie would have been completely inappropriate?

[ladylaw99]

1 minute ago, LadyChaos said:

Am I the only one that thinks that Oliver comforting Felicity after he killed Billie would have been completely inappropriate?

No, I think it would have been inappropriate.  I think she needed someone but not Oliver.