Spoiler Discussion Thread

[dtissagirl]

I'm wondering if Prometheus knows Vigilante is Chase, and is setting this all up somehow to get Oliver/Team Arrow to kill him -- and this time it'll go different for Chase than how it went for Mayo.

[BkWurm1]

33 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I'm wondering if Prometheus knows Vigilante is Chase, and is setting this all up somehow to get Oliver/Team Arrow to kill him -- and this time it'll go different for Chase than how it went for Mayo.

So maybe Prometheus turns Vigilante against Mayor Queen in the hopes that Team Arrow takes him down?  I could see how another player on the board would get in his way.  That's pretty much why Church bit the big one, right?  He was a risk to spoiling his plans?

[Chaser]

I think that quote on Thea highlights how bad WM is at interviews. 

MG: "Its just her contract, we are working around it."

WM: "Remember Moira right before she DIED?! That's Thea."

[Bort]

I promised last week that we would come to a decision regarding the live-posting, so here it is: Live-posting is no longer allowed in this thread, we will keep it to spoiler discussion, emphasis on SPOILER. We are creating a live-posting thread that will auto-unlock a few minutes before the episode starts and auto-lock when it is finished. Afterwards, discussion will take place in the designated episode thread. NOT HERE.

[Trisha]

8 hours ago, Sunshine said:

According to GATV Thea makes her feelings known regarding Reportiver and they are similar to twitter's in 5.13.  This could estrange her from Oliver. 

The more they have characters mention to Oliver that it's a bad idea dating Susan, the less I think Oliver is playing her. Otherwise, he would just tell Thea "yeah, I know. Keep your enemies closer." If that's what he's doing, there's no reason for him to hide his plan from his sister or the team. (Unless of course they want to teach him a lesson about how keeping secrets from his team is wrong - for the third season in a row.)

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, Trisha said:

The more they have characters mention to Oliver that it's a bad idea dating Susan, the less I think Oliver is playing her. Otherwise, he would just tell Thea "yeah, I know. Keep your enemies closer." If that's what he's doing, there's no reason for him to hide his plan from his sister or the team. (Unless of course they want to teach him a lesson about how keeping secrets from his team is wrong - for the third season in a row.)

Yep. If he's playing her, is he so determined to go through with whatever his plans are that he's willing to ruin the real relationships in his life? It would be one thing if Thea was telling Oliver that dating Susan was a bad idea with other people around. But it's just been them, right? Unless he thinks his office is bugged? Which, let's face it, Susan probably could have bugged it since he left her in there alone. He left the reporter alone in his office at City Hall before they even went out for drinks "as friends" the first time. Oh, the stupidity.

I feel like every time we discuss Oliver's maybe playing Susan, we're really practically begging the show, "Please, don't let Oliver really be as stupid as he's coming across. Please." 

[tv echo]

I just posted this week's DC All Access video in the Spoilers thread. You have to watch it (or read my transcription). It's hysterical. I had to laugh at how hard Hector was pushing people to watch 513 ("it's fantastic" and "favorite episode of Arrow of the entire series"). He also talks about Tinah and pimps a Black Canary comics from 2004 ("written by the legendary Gail Simone"). Oh, and apparently Team Arrow has a gun control debate this week.

I also posted a ComicBook.com article in which MG/WM talk about 513 and wanting to do a gun control episode - apparently this is the 1 "vegetable" episode in a season with 22 "candy" episodes.

Edited February 14, 2017 by tv echo

[Sunshine]

Yeah. I guess I have WM's words about genuine feelings in my head as well as both emotional and physical danger.  So I am expecting her to confront him but keep his secret.  Once it's out there something will happen to her.

Her investigation could still lead to cops going after GA.  She's not the bad guy though because she doesn't mean for it to happen. Oliver is proven right to trust her.  SA keeps saying wait and see when people tell him Oliver's a moron so I expect him to be right.

[apinknightmare]

What SA doesn't understand is that Susie ultimately deciding not to screw Oliver over doesn't mean he was right to trust her, it just means she's going against her demonstrated character because she likes him. Ugh. 

[insomniadreams88]

See, I keep going back to the fact that she met up with her PI or whoever that was after sleeping with Oliver. If they would have reversed the order of those scenes, we could have gotten Susan "torn" about her story on him. Instead, the last time we see Susan in 512, she's happily receiving information that could lead to quite the big story. Now, that's not to say that it still won't end up being her not exposing him because of "feelings" or whatever, but what we're seeing onscreen isn't suggesting that. Then again, look at this season, so you never know ...

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

What SA doesn't understand is that Susie ultimately deciding not to screw Oliver over doesn't mean he was right to trust her, it just means she's going against her demonstrated character because she likes him. Ugh. 

Exactly. He's been stupid from the beginning with her. HT tells him to date her? He goes, "Okay, sounds great!"

Even if she ends up not screwing him over, she's still gathering all this information (probably in one place too) and making it easy for someone else to. Although, since her first episode did see her blaming someone else (her producer), I could see them have her blame someone else again. 

I really don't get why they're trying to make this relationship more than it is. She's a temporary LI. Everyone knows that. Or do they really think that the audience might actually think that he's going to end up with a reporter no one likes? 

[Chaser]

It's a no win situation. If she just screws Oliver over, he's an idiot. If she doesn't, then there was zero point because she's a temp and he's still an idiot.

[Morrigan2575]

For those asking, Willa/Thea was in all 23 episodes in S4. Lance/PB appeared in 18 episodes and Barrowman/Malcolm had 14. 

I'm pretty sure PB and Barrowman has always had less than 23 episodes. Willa usually appeased in almost all but, I don't have data going back that far. I think S3 she missed the first two episodes?

[Chaser]

She did. She was off training with Malcolm.

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, Chaser said:

It's a no win situation. If she just screws Oliver over, he's an idiot. If she doesn't, then there was zero point because she's a temp and he's still an idiot.

Yeah - the only potential story is in her screwing him over. If she doesn't there's no lesson in him not trusting randos because he's been doing that so far and it's mostly turned out in his favor so far. There's no lesson in not trusting people in the media getting close to him, because that will have worked out for him too. 

I guess maybe the only point is that her snooping inadvertently sets people off against him, but the intent to expose him was still there...and anything other than breaking up with her immediately also makes him a moron. Susie's not a regular so there isn't any point in redeeming her unless they want Oliver to keep dating her for the rest of the season, which still makes him look stupid because even if she doesn't ultimately expose him the foundation of that "relationship" was based on her snooping around behind his back so...if he stays with her he still looks dumb?

Arrow: THERE IS NO POINT TO THIS

[apinknightmare]

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

See, I keep going back to the fact that she met up with her PI or whoever that was after sleeping with Oliver. If they would have reversed the order of those scenes, we could have gotten Susan "torn" about her story on him. Instead, the last time we see Susan in 512, she's happily receiving information that could lead to quite the big story. Now, that's not to say that it still won't end up being her not exposing him because of "feelings" or whatever, but what we're seeing onscreen isn't suggesting that. Then again, look at this season, so you never know ...

Plus, the order in which they did it suggested that Susan slept with him to see if he had a Bratva tattoo (since she knew what the significance of it was, and it seemed as if she had suspicions that Oliver was in the Bratva - or at least was aware of it - since the PI was specifically looking into the guys with Oliver in the picture and it seemed like the two of them had a convo about it beforehand). Then there was the whole post-coital interview. 

Couldn't they have just given him a female Billy? A Billie? Instead of this sneaky-ass woman who makes him look stupid. He doesn't need help in that department, show!

Edited February 14, 2017 by apinknightmare

[insomniadreams88]

23 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I guess maybe the only point is that her snooping inadvertently sets people off against him, but the intent to expose him was still there...and anything other than breaking up with her immediately also makes him a moron. Susie's not a regular so there isn't any point in redeeming her unless they want Oliver to keep dating her for the rest of the season, which still makes him look stupid because even if she doesn't ultimately expose him the foundation of that "relationship" was based on her snooping around behind his back so...if he stays with her he still looks dumb?

Arrow: THERE IS NO POINT TO THIS

Exactly. And if he stays with her, since we know the relationship won't last, why would anyone want to date him after?

Say they've decided to wait until the end of the season for some big Olicity shocker if they're going to get them back together - why would Felicity want to be with him again after this?

And if they've decided to go the Oliver/Tinah route, I feel like they're just going to be showing Tinah sides of Oliver that make her question why she signed up to work with him - the conversation in 5x12 where she called him out and then him making a horrible choice in a relationship - why would she then look at him and go, "hmm, relationship with this guy sounds good"?

4 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Couldn't they have just given him a female Billy? 

You know, every time I see Billy mentioned, I can't help but wonder why we're spending all this time on Susan if she doesn't betray him when we still don't even know how Felicity met Billy - especially every time WM mentions how important his death is for Felicity's current arc. 

[Trisha]

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I feel like every time we discuss Oliver's maybe playing Susan, we're really practically begging the show, "Please, don't let Oliver really be as stupid as he's coming across. Please." 

Yup. There's no way this storyline can resolve without Oliver looking like an idiot. Even if he makes an impassioned speech and convinces her not to expose him, he still looks like a moron for putting himself in that position in the first place.

The only *tiny* glimmer of hope is that the repeated mentions of how much Thea hates Susan makes me think she's the one who will ultimately take Susan down, fulfilling her promise in 503 ("If you cross me again, you'll be lucky to even have a blog"). WM said Thea begins to act like her mother in 5B, and that was Thea's most Moira-like line ever.  Of course, to hope for this implies that I still have faith the writers can pull of that kind of full circle plotting, so maybe not...

[LadyChaos]

12 hours ago, Chaser said:

The interview said this weeks episode and the interview was released for 5x12. Where was 5x13 referenced?

It was released the day after 512 aired. Plus, it fits nicely with the rumors that the team finds out about HELIX in 513, but decide not to tell Oliver, and that he won't find out until 515.

 

My thoughts on the Reporter are leaning this way:  She'll get her story,  maybe she publishes it maybe she don't, regardless Oliver will find out and ditch her, somewhere along the lines she'll grow repententant for the damage she did to him after realizes everything he has been through,  so in the end 520-223,  she'll use her reporter status to try to undo some of  the damage that Prometheous has done to GA reputation so people believe in him again.  That's what I think will happen......If not that, then Prometheous will kill her off before she publishes her story.

Edited February 14, 2017 by LadyChaos

[AyChihuahua]

1 hour ago, Trisha said:

The more they have characters mention to Oliver that it's a bad idea dating Susan, the less I think Oliver is playing her. Otherwise, he would just tell Thea "yeah, I know. Keep your enemies closer." If that's what he's doing, there's no reason for him to hide his plan from his sister or the team. (Unless of course they want to teach him a lesson about how keeping secrets from his team is wrong - for the third season in a row.)

If he's okay telling his sister to screw off bc she doesn't like his girlfriend...how serious are they making the girlfriend?

Gross. This is all gross.

(And I really have never bought that he's playing her. Went to her at one of the lowest points of his life, and has now slept with her, may ruin his relationship with his sister for her. SHE IS JUST A REPORTER. It makes no sense (though admittedly the show's the show) that he would go to all this effort to keep a regular reporter close to prevent a story. It'd make sense for a supervillain or major henchman, but not a regular reporter.)

[Cleanqueen]

That's why I can't wrap the idea that she doesn't have feelings for him out of my head. She slept with him to find out about the tattoo and I think in that moment she still might have had some sort of feelings but when she realized he wouldn't truly open up to her she made up her mind about what she wanted to do. Then the next scene we see her with the PI. So I can't see her not sharing what she has on him unless somehow Oliver finds out and pleads her not to. Which at this stage seems unlikely, felicity threatening her sounds more plausible.  

[LadyChaos]

3 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

That's why I can't wrap the idea that she doesn't have feelings for him out of my head. She slept with him to find out about the tattoo and I think in that moment she still might have had some sort of feelings but when she realized he wouldn't truly open up to her she made up her mind about what she wanted to do. Then the next scene we see her with the PI. So I can't see her not sharing what she has on him unless somehow Oliver finds out and pleads her not to. Which at this stage seems unlikely, felicity threatening her sounds more plausible.  

I'm secretly hoping she has a file on Susan on Helix and hasn't found it yet....

[Morrigan2575]

40 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Plus, the order in which they did it suggested that Susan slept with him to see if she had a Bratva tattoo (since she knew what the significance of it was, and it seemed as if she had suspicions that Oliver was in the Bratva - or at least was aware of it - since the PI was specifically looking into the guys with Oliver in the picture and it seemed like the two of them had a convo about it beforehand). Then there was the whole post-coital interview. 

What really confuses me is that 512 was the perfect opportunity to redeem Susan and they didn't take it. They already had Susan mellow on Lance because of Rene's story. The next logical step, to make this whole Susan story work, is for Susan to tell the PI stop investigating OQ before she sleeps with him. Bam! Susan doesn't look shady, Susan gets a redemption that shows she's really a good person underneath. They could still use her story to do whatever (out GA, get Prometheus/Chase to target Mayor Quern, etc) by having her information leak. Have the PI go to another reporter or have some shady reporter/editor at the network publish the story without her permission, etc.

Instead we have shady Susan still being shady and, apparently in 513 we have Thea letting Oliver know how dumb it is and how much she doesn't like Susan.

I'm baffled by their choices in this storyline. Not only that but, I get the feeling they (once again) didn't realize how this story would be perceived.  So, now they are just going to pull a last minute double down, telling us Oliver was right to trust Shady Susan while everything on screen, scream Dumbass!

Edited February 14, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[tv echo]

It's unclear as to when Diggle will call Felicity out. In the context of the quote, it sounded like this would happen in 512, but I don't believe we saw that happen last week. So it's possible that it happens in 513 (this article was posted on page 53 of the Spoilers thread)...

Arrow's David Ramsey Previews the End of 'Sad Diggle,' Return of OTA Moments and Spartan vs. Prometheus
By Matt Webb Mitovich / February 8 2017, 9:13 AM PST
http://tvline.com/2017/02/08/arrow-season-5-preview-david-ramsey-diggle-felicity-dinah/

Quote

TVLINE | What is Diggle’s mindset now that he has been sprung, with regards to Walker? To deliver what is due the general?
I think so. And not just that, but he’s full throttle with the team now. We’ve seen “internal, sad Diggle” for long enough — but for good reason. It isn’t every day that your dead brother comes back to life, who you then kill! Also, there’s a direct line between his choice to trust Andy and the death of the Canary (played by Katie Cassidy). Theres a straight line there, so his grief and guilt was well-placed. But I think he’s on the other side of that now. Now it’s time to get back to business, and he does. It’s about getting Prometheus, and for this [week’s] episode particularly there’s a crisis in terms of what Felicity is doing. Diggle will call Felicity out on where she’s going, emotionally and morally.
TVLINE | With regards to the dark net and her new Helix buddies?
That’s correct. Who are they? Who are these people? Obviously that’s a running theme on our show, the team members helping others who can’t see through the fog. We have “blinders,” as Felicity called them when Oliver was helping Black Siren, trying to find redemption. That theme is repeated with Diggle and Felicity, as she taps into her dark side, the way John did last season, the way Oliver does every Wednesday, to try to find a way of gaining an edge for the team. Diggle is the one that calls her out on that, for good reason.

Edited February 14, 2017 by tv echo

[LadyChaos]

9 minutes ago, tv echo said:

It's unclear as to when Diggle will call Felicity out. In the context of the quote, it sounded like this would happen in 512, but I don't believe we saw that happen last week. So it's possible that it happens in 513 (this article was posted on page 53 of the Spoilers thread)...

Arrow's David Ramsey Previews the End of 'Sad Diggle,' Return of OTA Moments and Spartan vs. Prometheus
By Matt Webb Mitovich / February 8 2017, 9:13 AM PST
http://tvline.com/2017/02/08/arrow-season-5-preview-david-ramsey-diggle-felicity-dinah/

the [] around the word 'week'  means its implied....so the writer assumed he meant 512.....all things I'm hearing makes it seem like 513 would be a better fit.....I mean....Dig was in no place in 512 to be talking sense to anyone, certainly Felicity, and I don't see where they could have put it in to have cut it from.  No, I'm still betting DR meant 513. but the reporter assumed 512

[Cleanqueen]

Yeah him calling her out this week makes sense because he was shocked last week to even find out that she was headed down a dark path. So now that he's dealt with his demons it makes sense that he would want to advice her against following hers. 

[theOAfc]

I think the reporter storyline will go like this : she will eventually decide to not snich on oliver . She will be shown to form feelings for him. Eventually in 5x15 she will get hurt (probably the limo scene) and somehow she will end up finding out about him being the green arrow(maybe in his effort to save her he will reveal his identity?)  while oliver will find out about her looking into him the whole time(I don't know if the team will tell him about it first but I think they will keep it a secret, mainly because it's arrow, and eventually one of the team members will let him know). They will simply break up because of all this situation and she will promise to not tell about his green secret. She will leave town. The end. Lol  

Edited February 14, 2017 by theOAfc

[Chaser]

1 hour ago, LadyChaos said:

the [] around the word 'week'  means its implied....so the writer assumed he meant 512.....all things I'm hearing makes it seem like 513 would be a better fit.....I mean....Dig was in no place in 512 to be talking sense to anyone, certainly Felicity, and I don't see where they could have put it in to have cut it from.  No, I'm still betting DR meant 513. but the reporter assumed 512

It makes sense. I hope you are right.

Helix comes out in 5x13? How did I miss that spoiler.

[way2interested]

Just now, theOAfc said:

I think the reporter storyline will go like this : she will eventually decide to not snich on oliver . She will be shown to form feelings for him. Eventually in 5x15 she will get hurt (probably the limo scene) and somehow she will end up finding out about him being the green arrow(maybe in his effort to save her he will reveal his identity?)  while oliver will find out about her looking into him the whole time(I don't know if the team will tell him about it first but I think they will keep it a secret, mainly because it's arrow, and eventually one of the team members will let him know). They will simply break up because of all this situation and she will promise to not tell about his green secret. She will leave town. The end. Lol  

But wouldn't that have to extend to 516 then, since CP is supposed to be in that episode too?

[theOAfc]

Just now, way2interested said:

But wouldn't that have to extend to 516 then, since CP is supposed to be in that episode too?

Yeah I don't pay much attention to bts pics but I think the accident is the cliffhanger of episode 5x15 and the fallout is the next episode, also her last episode for the show (?)

[Chaser]

I think CP is not in this episode, but is in 14 - 17.

[LadyChaos]

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

It makes sense. I hope you are right.

Helix comes out in 5x13? How did I miss that spoiler.

It's speculation from another site.....I logged on there for the first time in awhile,yeaterday so I don't where they got it from....but they said that speculation is that the team finds out about Helix in 513 but keep it from Oliver, and he will find out in 515....there is also no evidence that the actress playing Susan has been on set since 516.

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, theOAfc said:

Yeah I don't pay much attention to bts pics but I think the accident is the cliffhanger of episode 5x15 and the fallout is the next episode, also her last episode for the show (?)

I think they'd have to be complete idiots to make Susan the 5x15 cliffhanger during the short hiatus until 5x16. (So that might fit with this season.) 

[Velocity23]

I still think the 5x15 is Talia. 

[wonderwall]

5 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I think CP is not in this episode, but is in 14 - 17.

I don't think she's in 17. I think she's only in 14-16. 

[calliope1975]

Just now, insomniadreams88 said:

I think they'd have to be complete idiots to make Susan the 5x15 cliffhanger during the short hiatus until 5x16. (So that might fit with this season.) 

Hah! If they do the limo recreation of Olicity's accident with Suze, I will LOL forever. 

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, Velocity23 said:

I still think the 5x15 is Talia. 

Maybe we'll see Talia in Star City with Prometheus - and that final scene of 5x15 will be the official Prometheus reveal too? 

[LadyChaos]

Just now, wonderwall said:

I don't think she's in 17. I think she's only in 14-16. 

From my understanding, she is in 16, not in 17, and we have nothing on 18.   My opinion is after 16, if we see her again it will be in the 521-523 eps.

[Velocity23]

So Chase is gonna be the one attacking the limo?

[LadyChaos]

I just don't see the motive of Tahlia teaming up with Prometheus,  unless he is blackmailing her, which I would think she would have just ended him.  So unless she put him up to it, it makes no sense.

[theOAfc]

7 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

 

 

5 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Hah! If they do the limo recreation of Olicity's accident with Suze, I will LOL forever. 

I think they might do something similar. Isn't it also the episode cupid appears? The actress quoted Stephens tweet of the crashed limo so it makes me think cupid will attack them(if it's them anyway). 

Edited February 14, 2017 by theOAfc

[Velocity23]

2 minutes ago, theOAfc said:

Yeah. Or maybe oliver is also in the limo when it's hit. I really don't know but I think it 

 

I think they might do something similar. Isn't it also the episode cupid appears? The actress quoted Stephens tweet of the crashed limo so it makes me think cupid will attack them(if it's them anyway). 

They show up in 5x14 already. (Cupid, China White and  LadyCop). 5x15 is when Chase goes after the mayor. 

Edited February 14, 2017 by Velocity23

[LadyChaos]

Do we have anything that points to Oliver being with anyone in the limo at all?

[Cleanqueen]

21 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I don't think she's in 17. I think she's only in 14-16. 

she could honestly just be in 14 and 15. We know she was shown to be on set during 16 filming but she could've been doing pick ups for 15. She was on set supposedly during 13 filming but we know she's not in the episode so her 13 filming was probably for 12 inserts. I think we don't see her past 15. 

[theOAfc]

11 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

Do we have anything that points to Oliver being with anyone in the limo at all?

I don't think there's anything to indicate it's  even oliver inside the limo apart from Stephen posting the actual pic. I don't know, I feel like Susan will either get hurt, kidnapped or whatever in this episode.  

[LadyChaos]

I wonder if maybe its not what we think it is all at.....could be a flashback thing.....or maybe a reshoot of something else to mislead...

[dtissagirl]

29 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

I just don't see the motive of Tahlia teaming up with Prometheus,  unless he is blackmailing her, which I would think she would have just ended him.  So unless she put him up to it, it makes no sense.

Yeah, the speculation we came up with here a few weeks ago is Talia is the big bad, Prometheus is her muscle, because they're copying The Dark Knight Rises. Talia is Talia, Prometheus is Bane.

[Cleanqueen]

26 minutes ago, theOAfc said:

I don't think there's anything to indicate it's  even oliver inside the limo apart from Stephen posting the actual pic. I don't know, I feel like Susan will either get hurt, kidnapped or whatever in this episode.  

Well the synopsis said Vigilante attacks Oliver Queen, and we know Vigilante loves guns and Oliver loves limos. 

[LadyChaos]

22 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

Yeah, the speculation we came up with here a few weeks ago is Talia is the big bad, Prometheus is her muscle, because they're copying The Dark Knight Rises. Talia is Talia, Prometheus is Bane.

Except that TPTB have specifically stated that Prometheus is the big bad this season. So the only way I can see it playing out is in the end, after GA kills Prometheus,  Tahlia just randomly walks in and tells him that it was just another lesson she was teaching him or something equally stupid.

[Velocity23]

[Cleanqueen]

wow, will they complain in the comments about how this is the Green Arrow show and not the WD and family show?