Spoiler Discussion Thread

[BkWurm1]

Quote

"How dare you pass yourself off as the Black Canary!"

Quote

Since I am more interested in what is going on behind the scenes this year I totally read this in a meta kind of way. As in the show / the writers / me / whoever telling the actress. I can't stop my thoughts from going there.

I must confess, the meta was what I was going for, lol.  But only as a joke.  I don't really think the show will go there.  Well, beyond blowing up that terrible statue.  Side note, am I the only one that thinks it looks like it's made out of chocolate?  I keep waiting for someone to break off the head and eat it.  

Edited December 28, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Chaser]

I'm 99% positive CG just tossed in Olicity fans out of spite. He was on twitter going on about the show killing Olicity and giving Olicity fans the finger. There is a logic fail in the arguement that Olicity fans are powerful enough to kill off to write off LL and fire KC but the show feels comfortable dumping Olicity. Can't have it both ways.

IMO, even tho I think there are ways it could work, if the show has Felicity punch BS in a 'moment' there is no way the online fandom wouldn't read it as a slight on Laurel and/or KC. I don't know how the episode is going to turn out (or even if BS is the one Felicity punches), but I am kind of surprised that Felicity is the one investigating "Laurel." It's totally in character for me, but much like they kept Felicity out of 11:59, I would think they would put Felicity in 'so happy my friend is back' category and let the newbies do the doubting.

[BkWurm1]

Felicity doubting is probably supposed to be a sign of her slide toward darkness as opposed to her thinking logically.    

[arjumand]

49 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I must confess, the meta was what I was going for, lol.  But only as a joke.  I don't really think the show will go there.  Well, beyond blowing up that terrible statue.  Side note, am I the only one that thinks it looks like it's made out of chocolate?  I keep waiting for someone to break off the head and eat it.  

Oh, most definitely. The minute I saw that thing I thought, oh dear. What an unfortunate expression. Also, many chocolate Easter bunnies died to bring us this statue.

[Belinea]

Does the spoiler summary say that Felicity punches someone? Or is that just based on prior spoilers given by the tweets?

As far as CG goes, even though he seems unpleasant to certain fans and people, (He apparently really dislikes CP from the Flash and used to tweet unkind things about EBR) he sometimes has a bit of inside info. I doubt any fandom can get a character killed off that easily. Especially if that fandom is then dumped as well. 

I could imagine that it might be more than one thing: Maybe they ran out of things to tell and/or after a few seasons they'd need to negotiate contracts again for more payment... Maybe they couldn't come to an agreement on salary or screen time or general storyline development. (less action, more romance plot) Who knows. I do however feel that since killing LL off, she has become much more prominent. Now character X can tell us who she was and nobody cares about whether that has been accurately portrayed the last four years because in that character's mind she represents this or that. Furthermore Laurel cannot contradict their opinions with her behaviour as well. So in some aspects it is certainly a win for the writers. They don't have to write for her, just about her. But I wish they'd gradually phase that out a bit because I watched the show the last four years and if LL deserves a statue for being heroic, then for example Sara deserved the same kind of ugly statue. 

Edited December 28, 2016 by Belinea

[insomniadreams88]

5 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Felicity doubting is probably supposed to be a sign of her slide toward darkness as opposed to her thinking logically.    

And maybe the beginning of a divide of sorts between her and the others, since she turns to new people instead of the team for her upcoming storyline? 

[way2interested]

4 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Felicity doubting is probably supposed to be a sign of her slide toward darkness as opposed to her thinking logically.    

Well, in this case doubting actually gets positive results (I doubt that this is our friend despite supernatural/sci-fi history, and what do you know, I was right, like always)and is the "logical" way of approaching the main problem of the week, so maybe this and whatever she might be doing in 511, since I'd guess she and Rory would be doing something since they aren't on the Tina field trip, does kind of reinforce "hey, maybe doing things my way instead of the team's way actually gives results."

Edited December 28, 2016 by way2interested

[BkWurm1]

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

And maybe the beginning of a divide of sorts between her and the others, since she turns to new people instead of the team for her upcoming storyline? 

Well if the spoiler summery is right, didn't it imply that Felicity let BS go on her own to lead to Prometheus even though Oliver didn't want to take the risk?  So yeah, acting on her own and willing to take darker risks.  

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Well, in this case doubting actually gets positive results (I doubt that this is our friend despite supernatural/sci-fi history, and what do you know, I was right, like always)and is the "logical" way of approaching the main problem of the week, so maybe this and whatever she might be doing in 511, since I'd guess she and Rory would be doing something since they aren't on the Tina field trip, does kind of reinforce "hey, maybe doing things my way instead of the team's way actually gives results."

We don't know that Rory's with Felicity in 511, right? We're just assuming since he's not on the road trip. He could just not be in the episode at all. (I hope he is. I want more Felicity/Rory scenes.) 

[Chaser]

For clarification, this was a response to BkWurm1

I thought about that too but I have no clue how that would work. Because she isn't trusting her zombieLaurel she is going dark? Because she looking at the logic fails of her story she is going dark? 

Maybe its because she doesn't trust Olivers judgement here. It foreshadows her believing she is going to have to look outside the Team for taking down Prometheus. Maybe her and Oliver flip. Oliver decides killing isn't a way to honor Laurel anymore and Felicity believes its the only path they can take. So Oliver heads back to S2 and Felicity starts searching out Vigilante.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Chaser

[Lily-n11]

I do hope 5-10 will give me a clear picture on whether they are finished with LL/BS/KC or if they leave any openings for her to come back. And I will wait and see if 5-10 will give me any hints on bts stuff.

If the BS take down goes down in a sort of meta way* then I will continue to believe that KC was back this season solely Because Contract and not because the showrunners like her so much. The more I hear (gossip, blind items that go back to summer 2013) the more I do believe the reason she managed to stay on the show as long as she did was due to the involvement of lawyers.

* By meta way I think of:

• someone / FS punishing her, maybe with the BC baton?
• BS commenting on that ass ugly statue
• BS / KC taking down that ass ugly statue herself accompanied by a similar tagline like on the Flash (I'm still not over it. They really made her say Bye Bye Birdie!)
• something like characters telling BS (and indirectly KC) she would never be a worthy BC

Whatever. I hope they close the chapter on all things LL/KC with 5-10. I have enough stuff to wonder about with rest of season 5. Stuff like: what exactly was a showrunner decision and what was dictated from above /network.

[Lily-n11]

10 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Well, in this case doubting actually gets positive results (I doubt that this is our friend despite supernatural/sci-fi history, and what do you know, I was right, like always)and is the "logical" way of approaching the main problem of the week, so maybe this and whatever she might be doing in 511, since I'd guess she and Rory would be doing something since they aren't on the Tina field trip, does kind of reinforce "hey, maybe doing things my way instead of the team's way actually gives results."

I like this. Her sending out one person (be that Ragman or Vigilante) would accomplish things faster than the normally what 4, 5 or 6 people out in the field. That one person would not need to waste time to pause to pose for The V. (You know that thing they do to remind viewers it's a comic book show.)

[tangerine95]

I actually do believe that the reason KC got that deal is the same reason she managed to stay on the show for almost 5 seasons which is her lawyers and whatever connections she has on the CW. I don't think we would have seen her at all this season if it wasn't for that tbh. Idk if this will be her last appearance tho,if it isn't I don't think there's more than another one left. 

[Belinea]

12 minutes ago, Chaser said:

So Oliver heads back to S2 and Felicity starts searching out Vigilante.

Sounds plausibly. Although I am still annoyed by the fact that it took the off-screen BF that nobody cared about to push her over the edge. The destruction of Havenrock didn't but the BF who wasn't relevant for anyone watching the show did. I get it but I don't like it.

[way2interested]

12 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

We don't know that Rory's with Felicity in 511, right? We're just assuming since he's not on the road trip. He could just not be in the episode at all. (I hope he is. I want more Felicity/Rory scenes.) 

I was just thinking about whatever Felicity's plot might be in 511, since I think that she would have a higher chance of actually having one if the someone on the team isn't on the field trip and is able to support her story (and even higher chances since the one person who isn't on the trip is the one newbie who actually had a previous emotional connection with Felicity) and the fact that Rory and Rene have literally been in every episode since introduced.

11 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Maybe its because she doesn't trust Olivers judgement here. It foreshadows her believing she is going to have to look outside the Team for taking down Prometheus. Maybe her and Oliver flip. Oliver decides killing isn't a way to honor Laurel anymore and Felicity believes its the only path they can take. So Oliver heads back to S2 and Felicity starts searching out Vigilante.

Yeah, overall I'm thinking this is where they're going with this and describing it as "dark" might just be a way they are choosing to promote it in terms of where she's going vs. Oliver. Although now that I'm thinking about it, it's ironic that Felicity is going to be the one who's looking outside of the team when she was the one who always insisted on Oliver using/confiding in the team in the first place, but hopefully they will address that?

[Belinea]

3 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

Idk if this will be her last appearance tho,if it isn't I don't think there's more than another one left. 

Maybe they hope that BC 3.0 will be such a hit that the comic fans will forget about LL and they won't have to bring her back. I assume that she might be back in the last couple of episodes but I doubt she will let go of this role for good. She'll be back. 

2 minutes ago, way2interested said:

when she was the one who always insisted on Oliver using/confiding in the team in the first place, but hopefully they will address that?

Knowing them, they probably won't. But they'll be happy you make the connection. They'll you know in a post-episode interview.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Belinea

[AyChihuahua]

I am one of the most pessimistic (imo realistic) ppl about this show, and the one thing I am sure of is that KC is not coming back in any meaningful way. She wasn't just terrible as Laurel. She didn't just have terrible chemistry with Steve (not her fault, or his). She was TERRIBLE, awful, horrendous, as Black Canary. At least six of my top ten films are action movies, and most tv shows I watch have a large action component. I LOVE action. KC's powered-down robot stance and utter inability to land a simple punch were genuinely embarrassing for a network tv show. I am so uncoordinated that I nearly knocked myself unconscious the other day opening my front door. I am still more coordinated than KC.

Imo THAT is what finally killed her off. (Not saying there wasn't some personal drama, but the network cares about dollars.) She failed in every one of her roles and showed absolutely no improvement in arguably her most important role: BC. She was also likely one of if not the most expensive cast members.

She ain't coming back.

Edited December 29, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[insomniadreams88]

6 minutes ago, Belinea said:

Although I am still annoyed by the fact that it took the off-screen BF that nobody cared about to push her over the edge. The destruction of Havenrock didn't but the BF who wasn't relevant for anyone watching the show did. I get it but I don't like it.

I just hope they address everything she has been through since last year: the shooting, her father's return/parents, the breakup and everything that entailed, getting fired, Havenrock, etc. I'm fine with the death of the BF no one cared about being what pushes her over the edge if it's acknowledged that she was bottling all this up and using him as a sort of distraction. I don't want everything else to be an afterthought.

I want to see some acknowledgement from the others that they should have been there for her and they weren't (like, say, by surrounding Oliver instead of her in 509 - I'm still mad we didn't get at least a "I want to be alone" line if the writers were so adamant about Felicity grieving alone), which means this

5 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Felicity is going to be the one who's looking outside of the team when she was the one who always insisted on Oliver using/confiding in the team in the first place, but hopefully they will address that?

makes some sort of sense. 

I would also love it if at some point during this arc, they remember that Felicity and Diggle are friends. (Hey, they can even bring up the fact that Felicity was right not to break Diggle out of prison earlier this season and Oliver - and Lyla - didn't listen to her then and look how that turned out.) Considering how stupid Oliver is being this season and since Thea's been stuck in the mayor/Lance plots of the season, Diggle might be the best bet out of those three to notice that something's off about Felicity. He did, after all, know that she wasn't on board with the prison break. But that's probably just my wishful thinking.

[way2interested]

4 minutes ago, Lily-n11 said:

I like this. Her sending out one person (be that Ragman or Vigilante) would accomplish things faster than the normally what 4, 5 or 6 people out in the field. That one person would not need to waste time to pause to pose for The V. (You know that thing they do to remind viewers it's a comic book show.)

Also by sending out Ragman or Vigilante, you get to send out someone you don't need to be concerned about. Ragman is magic and can stop bullets, and the only problem with him could be the moral factor (ex: he might not be too cool on killing people). Vigilante is down with killing his enemies/anyone who's in his way (especially with people who are terrorizing the city, which, Prometheus is doing), and the only problem with him could be a logical factor (ex: he might be hard to talk down if they go to far). Granted, with Vigilante, Felicity doesn't even have to worry about his well-being or psyche, since she doesn't know him or care about him like she would the other members of the team. They would both want Prometheus dead, and all Felicity would have to do is point him in the right direction and then look the other way if something goes wrong.

Sorry, I'm getting away with this. I just really like the Felicity working with Vigilante spec. 

[insomniadreams88]

10 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Sorry, I'm getting away with this. I just really like the Felicity working with Vigilante spec. 

I am so into the idea of Felicity working with Vigilante that if it doesn't end up being what happens, I'm going to be so disappointed. 

Speaking of Vigilante, have we gotten any teasers at all about what's coming up for Chase in 5B? I know we have the 510 leaked spoilers and we see him in the promo, but anything beyond that? 

[Lily-n11]

4 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Sorry, I'm getting away with this. I just really like the Felicity working with Vigilante spec. 

Don't be. At first I was not into a story that would take her away from the team. But the more I think about it the more I want it. At least with less people present the more chance we actually get to hear her POV on things. And I do want the show to finally allow her to talk about everything that happened to her since 4-09. 

And I do like the idea that this might also bring back that Diggle / Felicity friendship that definitely existed on the show and that the writers have basically ignored for years. 

[bijoux]

50 minutes ago, Belinea said:

Does the spoiler summary say that Felicity punches someone? Or is that just based on prior spoilers given by the tweets?

 Bamford posted a photo with EBR and commemted on her mean right hook (or something of that ilk) during the filming of this episode. That's where it comes from.

[way2interested]

11 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Speaking of Vigilante, have we gotten any teasers at all about what's coming up for Chase in 5B? I know we have the 510 leaked spoilers and we see him in the promo, but anything beyond that? 

I don't think so, although I would guess that the team has to find out that he's Vigilante eventually. Also, TvLine said that Felicity would be confiding with someone outside of the team, which I took to be Vigilante, but who knows.

[popgoesculture]

Quote

I do want to see Felicity punch BS. And really, who else could she be punching in 510 that would make sense?

I would actually be okay with Felicity punching almost anyone on the show. My top contenders are Oliver and Wild Dog... maybe punching Oliver would get him to wake up and act like himself and not the total idiot he continues to be (which, considering his levels of idiocy he has reached in the past is impressive), and Wild Dog... because he's Wild Dog. 

That said, I'm sure there will be weird tension between Oliver who suddenly is like "YUP, THAT'S TOTES LAUREL AND I LOVE HER" and Felicity "When has anyone coming back from the dead ever turned out well right away?" 

[statsgirl]

There must be a story reason that they made Josh Segarra a regular while the actors playing Rene, Rory and Evelyn are recurring.

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

 Well, beyond blowing up that terrible statue.  Side note, am I the only one that thinks it looks like it's made out of chocolate?  I keep waiting for someone to break off the head and eat it.  

Is it supposed to be bronze?  (How did Oliver ever get the city to pay THAT much money?)  Maybe it is chocolate and going to help feed the people of the Glades.

I don't know if Felicity investigating "Laurel" is supposed to show that she's going dark or not, but I can see it showing that she's becoming more cynical, less trusting, and less of "the Light" than she was in her early seasons.

On the even better side, it shows she hasn't lost all of her brain cells this season.

2 hours ago, Belinea said:

I could imagine that it might be more than one thing: Maybe they ran out of things to tell and/or after a few seasons they'd need to negotiate contracts again for more payment... Maybe they couldn't come to an agreement on salary or screen time or general storyline development. (less action, more romance plot) Who knows. I do however feel that since killing LL off, she has become much more prominent. Now character X can tell us who she was and nobody cares about whether that has been accurately portrayed the last four years because in that character's mind she represents this or that. Furthermore Laurel cannot contract their opinions with her behaviour as well. So in some aspects it is certainly a win for the writers. They don't have to write for her, just about her. But I wish they'd gradually phase that out a bit because I watched the show the last four years and if LL deserves a statue for being heroic, then for example Sara deserved the same kind of ugly statue. 

My takeaway from giving Chase the 'DA by day, Vigilante by night 'and the lack of any real Laurel storylines other than to brings Sara back is that the writers didn't have any interest in writing stories for Laurel.  For them, it was the image of Laurel rather than the character on the show.

I wonder if her prominence right now is a combination of pacing (e.g."Let's get the Laurel appearances over with before we move into the big arc of the season") and a directive from above to make a new Black Canary.  It's the latter that I don't understand at all.  I don't need a new Black Canary, I don't want a new Black Canary especially in a season that is full of new characters I don't care about and wish were gone so the show could get back to the dynamic and characters that I care about, but they're determined to give me one.

I can understand getting into the idea of Felicity/Vigilante.  She's been so  underused this season  in terms of getting a story of her own as opposed to propping up "Oliver and the n00bs" that I'll take anything.

Edited December 28, 2016 by statsgirl

[Belinea]

Hopefully there won't be an epic Felicity/Vigilante romance to go with the storyline... 

[AyChihuahua]

14 minutes ago, Belinea said:

Hopefully there won't be an epic Felicity/Vigilante romance to go with the storyline... 

Oh boy.

[insomniadreams88]

32 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

There must be a story reason that they made Josh Segarra a regular while the actors playing Rene, Rory and Evelyn are recurring.

Is it supposed to be bronze?  (How did Oliver ever get the city to pay THAT much money?) 

I wonder if her prominence right now is a combination of pacing (e.g."Let's get the Laurel appearances over with before we move into the big arc of the season") and a directive from above to make a new Black Canary.  It's the latter that I don't understand at all.  I don't need a new Black Canary, I don't want a new Black Canary especially in a season that is full of new characters I don't care about and wish were gone so the show could get back to the dynamic and characters that I care about, but they're determined to give me one.

I can understand getting into the idea of Felicity/Vigilante.  She's been so  underused this season  in terms of getting a story of her own as opposed to propping up "Oliver and the n00bs" that I'll take anything.

Yeah, I'm hoping we get more Chase in 5B, especially considering how much WD we've gotten for a recurring character as opposed to a series regular.

I honestly do wonder how Oliver justified that expense (especially since the city should probably have money set aside to repair all damages from the inevitable May attack) - they could've given her a plaque, which would've been cheaper and frankly, probably looked a lot better. 

Part of me might be okay with all these new characters if they're all gone by next season. (Except Rory. He can stay. Even with the magic rags of his that annoy me.)

I do kind of worry that Felicity's storyline will end up being used to prop up Chase though if they do have a Felicity/Vigilante partnership. 

15 minutes ago, Belinea said:

Hopefully there won't be an epic Felicity/Vigilante romance to go with the storyline... 

I can't see that happening. And if it does - or if they give Felicity another BF at all this season - it would just be so that Oliver can have another LI, and I'm hoping the backlash from 5A stops them from doing that. 

[catrox14]

I have no issues with Felicity investigating not!Laurel.  Felicity has seen too much. She had kind of strange friendship with Laurel that IMO was always overplayed emotionally. Felicity was basically forced to be friends with Laurel because gods forbid women just not be friends because they just don't like each other. IMO, the writers were afraid of it be interpreted by the audience as  "Felicity and Laurel don't get along because of Oliver" but IMO Laurel was IMO was pretty rude, dismissive and condescending to Felicity early on and more often than not. There was no organic friendship growth on screen. They suddenly had Felicity propping Laurel and then they were insta-besties.  And for me, now knowing that Laurel still saw Oliver as the love of her life makes me side-eye Laurel's motives for being friends with Felicity. Because I still say Laurel was nuts, but that's just me.

Felicity not trusting not!Laurel is the only proper response from any of them. 

I can fanwank that Oliver's guilt over Laurel's death makes him suppress his own doubts vs him just being a dumbass or hoping that he can be with not!Laurel. 

But truly the idea that the entire team is not side-eying not!Laurel from the get- go is stupid. YMMV

[bijoux]

7 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I have no issues with Felicity investigating not!Laurel.  Felicity has seen too much. She had kind of strange friendship with Laurel that IMO was always overplayed emotionally. Felicity was basically forced to be friends with Laurel because gods forbid women just not be friends because they just don't like each other. IMO, the writers were afraid of it be interpreted by the audience as  "Felicity and Laurel don't get along because of Oliver" but IMO Laurel was IMO was pretty rude, dismissive and condescending to Felicity early on and more often than not. There was no organic friendship growth on screen. They suddenly had Felicity propping Laurel and then they were insta-besties.  And for me, now knowing that Laurel still saw Oliver as the love of her life makes me side-eye Laurel's motives for being friends with Felicity. Because I still say Laurel was nuts, but that's just me.

Felicity not trusting not!Laurel is the only proper response from any of them. 

I can fanwank that Oliver's guilt over Laurel's death makes him suppress his own doubts vs him just being a dumbass or hoping that he can be with not!Laurel. 

But truly the idea that the entire team is not side-eying not!Laurel from the get- go is stupid. YMMV

Hear hear. On top of this, I don't see how Felicity striking dumbass Oliver is more okay than hitting a known villain who will have manipulated them all and threatened her specifically if things actually go the way I predict them to.

[statsgirl]

3 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I want to see some acknowledgement from the others that they should have been there for her and they weren't (like, say, by surrounding Oliver instead of her in 509 - I'm still mad we didn't get at least a "I want to be alone" line if the writers were so adamant about Felicity grieving alone), which means this

Quote

Felicity is going to be the one who's looking outside of the team when she was the one who always insisted on Oliver using/confiding in the team in the first place, but hopefully they will address that?

makes some sort of sense.

It makes a lot of sense that Felicity would go outside of the team because they didn't care about her, only Oliver, when Billy died.  But they won't do it because that would be admitting that how they write the Team isn't perfect.

[Cleanqueen]

I really don't think Felicity is teaming up with Vigilante, people she turns to might be questionable folks from her past. I do believe whatever she created in her college days could somewhat be helpful to her right now. I was rewatching 4x13 the other day, do we know what happened to that flash drive her father gave her? Maybe that gets brought up.

And if Oliver and Diggle won't realize she's doing questionable thinks, I think either Rory or Curtis will. Most likely Rory, didn't they make a pact to each other or something.

[statsgirl]

I was watching the CW last night and they played the Arrow promo for 510 except now there was no Oliver saying "that's not Laurel" and "Finally someone figured it out" (or whatever the dialogue was).  Instead it was replaced by a shot of Oliver tenderly cradling Laurel's cheek.  I guess someone figured it out that it's not the best idea to give away the plot in the promo.

[BkWurm1]

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

Instead it was replaced by a shot of Oliver tenderly cradling Laurel's cheek. 

Sigh.  A hug I get, but Oliver and Laurel haven't had a "tenderly cradling" her cheek kind of relationship in years.  Just feels wrong.  

[apinknightmare]

9 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

A hug I get, but Oliver and Laurel haven't had a "tenderly cradling" her cheek kind of relationship in years

If you don't tenderly cradle your ex's cheek after "she" returns from the "dead," then you aren't super serious about the deathbed promise you made to "her." It's the only way to show it!

[insomniadreams88]

11 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Sigh.  A hug I get, but Oliver and Laurel haven't had a "tenderly cradling" her cheek kind of relationship in years.  Just feels wrong.  

The writers probably forgot about that, like they've forgotten about a lot of things this season. 

[DrSpaceman10]

Yeah, I'm super over them acting like Oliver was in love with Laurel. They were barely friends when she was alive. It's almost like they're pretending that all of the Oliver/Felicity emotional beats happened with Oliver/Laurel instead. It's bullshirt. 

[way2interested]

That just seems really ridiculous and counterproductive to me then since CW's own site and YouTube page already has the other spoiler promo though. Like, do they care about the spoilers or not? I guess they want to keep it a secret from the people who only casually watch Arrow as their Wednesday night at 8 viewing, but why have a spoiler version of the promo at all?

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, DrSpaceman10 said:

Yeah, I'm super over them acting like Oliver was in love with Laurel. They were barely friends when she was alive. It's almost like they're pretending that all of the Oliver/Felicity emotional beats happened with Oliver/Laurel instead. It's bullshirt. 

Sometimes I wonder if O/F's relationship was a dream. Or if, this season, the writers think it was a dream. Then I read interviews about not wanting to get them back together right away and how they know they did things wrong with their relationship, and I wonder if they realize that they're making mistakes yet again. 

3 minutes ago, way2interested said:

That just seems really ridiculous and counterproductive to me then since CW's own site and YouTube page already has the other spoiler promo though. Like, do they care about the spoilers or not? I guess they want to keep it a secret from the people who only casually watch Arrow as their Wednesday night at 8 viewing, but why have a spoiler version of the promo at all?

Maybe they're trying to pull in O/L fans with that promo now? They've seen people are pissed that it's BS and not really LL, so they're hoping that they can throw them something to make them want to watch? I don't know. 

[AyChihuahua]

9 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Then I read interviews about not wanting to get them back together right away and how they know they did things wrong with their relationship, and I wonder if they realize that they're making mistakes yet again. 

I don't think that what they consider mistakes and what most Olicity fans consider mistakes are the same.

[Mrs. de Winter]

42 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Sigh.  A hug I get, but Oliver and Laurel haven't had a "tenderly cradling" her cheek kind of relationship in years.  Just feels wrong

I am sure it is not what Chico was going for but I find it hilarious that Oliver seems to care more for fake Laurel than he ever did for real Laurel.  I do wonder if SA will be able to avoid his patented NOT face since he knows she is not back for good.

I am fine with Felicity punching not-Laurel.  Then again - given the way her team has failed her recently - I would be fine if she takes the precious red pen and stabs one of them (Rory excepted) in the neck with it so I am probably not a good person to comment on this.  I hope Felicity does get to partner with someone who will appreciate her talents.  My guess is that whomever they stick her with will only be working with her so they can hurt poor little Oliver and cause him more pain - but here is hoping Felicity gets to build something that is her own.   

Edited December 29, 2016 by Mrs. de Winter

[EmilyBettFan]

That's stupid that they would change the promo. 

[insomniadreams88]

Thinking about it, what does it say about the real Laurel's relationships with the team if Black Siren can fool any of them so easily? I don't think another Earth's Oliver, Felicity, Diggle or probably Thea would be able to fool them long enough to put together a welcome back gathering of any kind. Because as much as they can retcon about Laurel now that she's dead, those are just words they're using. Now they're trying to put actions to those words with the relationships (and lack of) she had when she was alive. 

I'm actually pretty interested in seeing how they sell this episode in the producer's preview. Didn't WM say that LL was "alive and well" in 510? Will the producer's preview try to act like it's not BS? Because while the CW can put together a promo like they did for 510 and reveal it's BS, I have to wonder if WM is going to talk in the producer's preview like it could be the real Laurel.  

[Velocity23]

WM was pretty smart in that interview and not actually mentioned LL. 

[Belinea]

So, I wonder...Do the people who write this show care at this point that people paid attention to the show beforehand. It just truly feels like they neither care that their storylines don't have any consistency nor any logic to them. 

Also I wonder...If they wanted LL to disappear from the show, then why are they positioning her right now in a manner that KC always saw her as (Badass, Love of Life etc...) They never cared before. But maybe they thought nobody cared that everyone got a personality transplant over the summer. Shouldn't Oliver be more worried about Diggle or about Felicity? He probably had to forget they existed...

Edited December 29, 2016 by Belinea

[insomniadreams88]

Just now, Velocity23 said:

WM was pretty smart in that interview and not actually mentioned LL. 

That's something at least. (I've sort of lost any desire this season to go back and re-read any of the interviews.) I do feel like there's a disconnect between what the EPs want to promote and what the CW does in the promos though.

I'm kind of reminded of the international promos that spoiled Felicity's paralysis last season. I'd have expected the BS reveal in one of those, not the CW's to be honest. Maybe that's why they backtracked with a different promo for TV spots? 

[Cleanqueen]

Interesting, how long was the promo was it also 30 seconds? Oliver hasn't even caressed Laurel's cheek in the present since he last slept with her so why would he tenderly touch her now? I find it odd to even include something like that in there. 

Speaking of International promos, whatever happened to those?

[LeighAn]

So the writers are going for the double whammy of having pissed off Laurel and pissed off Olicity fans up in their social media feeds then? Haha.

Im curious if Stephen will have blank face during the cheek cradling scene? 

I just really feel like this episode is going to make Oliver look so dumb up one way and down another? First with being so easily and fully taken in by Not Laurel and then by ending the episode thinking he can find Laurel/good in Not Laurel. Sigh. 

Edited December 29, 2016 by LeighAn

[catrox14]

Quote

nstead it was replaced by a shot of Oliver tenderly cradling Laurel's cheek. 

I saw that promo and it was the other way around. Laurel cradled Oliver's cheek and he responded with a sigh and closed his eyes. He didnt touch her in the snippet I saw.

I rewound it like 5 times to make sure  because I couldn't believe my eyes.

Edited December 29, 2016 by catrox14

[Trisha]

4 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Instead it was replaced by a shot of Oliver tenderly cradling Laurel's cheek.  

It's actually Laurel reaching out and cradling Oliver's cheek, not the other way around (looks like it's a continuation of the scene when he walks in and sees her). It's still bad and Lauliver-baiting - especially because he closes his eyes and sighs deeply - but it makes more sense for her to initiate it than the guy who remained silent when everyone else told Laurel they loved her on her deathbed.