Spoiler Discussion Thread

[BkWurm1]

15 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

If they are intending to reconcile them (and grumpy bitter me just assumes the worst most days) I wonder if they would put a moment in 508 to kickstart it. Since 408 was the start of blowing them up they could put in something hopeful in 508.

Or they could just send him off with Tina forever and ever! 

If that happened I will be begging Barry to come back and redo Flashpoint all over again.  

[Morrigan2575]

6 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Very. And it might happen sooner than the majority expects.

My money has been on February Sweeps since the summer. I've been saying they're doing a reverse temp LI thing from the beginning. Right or wrong I'm sticking to it. 

I'm also expecting a good/major Olicity scene/moment in 509. We've had one every MSF since she got moved into the LI role (209 - putting on the mask, 309 - I love you and last image before death, 409 - engagement). I think it'll be closer to S2 than S3 or S4 since they're slightly estranged but there's going to be something.

These guys like their patterns, for example we're back to revealing the Big Bad in 509 (same as S1, S2, and S3). So I definitely think, 509 we get a reveal on Prometheus, we get a big Olicity moment that paves the way for a February Sweeps reunion.

Which is mostly been my spec from the summer. I did (at one point) move it up to 510/511 mostly because of the title "Second Chances" just screamed reunion to me. However, that could refer to any number of things.

Quote

If they are intending to reconcile them (and grumpy bitter me just assumes the worst most days) I wonder if they would put a moment in 508 to kickstart it. Since 408 was the start of blowing them up they could put in something hopeful in 508.

There's already been a ton of spec pointing out that there's going to be an Olicity scene in 508. We have very good indication from BTS pictures that they're doing some sort of 307 redux. It's possible thst this meeting helps Oliver break free from the dream world.

The whole point seems to be that this is Oliver's It's A Wonderful Life moment. This is where he sees what would happen if he never went on the Gambit.  In this world he's with the wrong woman, he's probably still a screw up, probably still cheating, everyone else's life is better without Oliver in it (unlike the movie) but, Oliver has to choose that being the GA is more important. 

Will it carry forward for the characters? Probably not because 508 is supposed to be an independent episode from the season. However, I think it's supposed to be a clue for the audience.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[dtissagirl]

If Arrow is really coming back from hiatus Feb 1st, that puts 510 in Feb Sweeps. The period is January 26 – February 22, 2017.

[Morrigan2575]

8 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

If Arrow is really coming back from hiatus Feb 1st, that puts 510 in Feb Sweeps. The period is January 26 – February 22, 2017.

Are you sure? This site lists it as February 2 - March 1 2017

https://www.tvb.org/Portals/0/media/file/Nielsen_Local_Survey_Dates_2016-17.pdf

[dtissagirl]

Well, now I'm not sure, lol. That's probably more accurate than my info, which is from an old PDF I saved months ago.

[insomniadreams88]

6 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

There are steps between taking steps toward reconciling and a reunion and all it entails.

 

5 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

If they are intending to reconcile them (and grumpy bitter me just assumes the worst most days) I wonder if they would put a moment in 508 to kickstart it. Since 408 was the start of blowing them up they could put in something hopeful in 508.

Maybe they'll have Oliver have a light bulb moment in 508 and then have Felicity have one in 509. So we'll know as an audience that they're headed back towards a reunion, but it might take them a few episodes on the show to get there. 

[statsgirl]

Yes, I'm also expecting Olicity to somehow play into Oliver's realization he's in a dream world in 508 simply because they need to give us hope so we will come back after the winter hiatus.  I don't expect much from 509.

Since the show isn't coming back till February, that means that 510 - 512 will be the February sweeps episodes (maybe 513) and I don't think that's enough time to put them back together given where they are now which is pretty far apart.  Break them up, yes, but not put them back together because that takes more time.

Also Tina will be appearing in 511 so the show will need to take the time to set that up, finding her, giving her backstory and then convincing her to join the team.

There just doesn't seem to be enough time for the February sweeps.  And I suspect their big draw for the sweeps period will be Tina and the making of a new Black Canary.

[Velocity23]

I really dont see how Tina Boland would be the draw.

[statsgirl]

Not Tina as a person but the new Black Canary.  It would appeal to the people they seem to be appealing to this season, comic book fans who want more masks and more fighting.

[Velocity23]

Yeah but will the accept a non-Lance as a BC. Which still isnt confirmed.

[Sunshine]

My google search has Feb sweeps Feb 2 - Mar 1 so episodes would be 5.11-5.14.

[dtissagirl]

WHEN has Arrow ever taken enough time to set up new superheroes? WHAT show have you guys been watching, seriously.

Edited November 18, 2016 by dtissagirl

[insomniadreams88]

Well, we might also have to take into consideration any time jumps between episodes. For all we know, they'll come back after some time has passed, ignore any issues and say conversations took place off-screen. They'll put Oliver and Felicity back together, and then have the time to focus on everything else going on in 5B: introducing new characters, setting up the finale, etc. 

[dtissagirl]

Guggentroll said this time around they're taking their time if/when they put O/F back together, because they might have done the breaking up too quickly. The last time he said they were gonna take time with something it was before S4 started -- he said they'd wait as long as possible to put Felicity in danger. They waited 9 episodes. O/F have been broken up for 15 episodes now. 15 Arrow episodes is like 17 years in human years.

[statsgirl]

They don't need to take the time to set her up as a new superhero -- she comes in already full of angst and "the best fighter [Oliver or whoever is her LI] has ever seen."

But I think they'll want to take the time to play with their new toy, as they are with Wild Dog, and any time spent on Felicity/Olicity will take the emphasis away from Tina Nu Canary.

[Velocity23]

because they took so much time with Laurel?

[insomniadreams88]

It's not just Tina that they're going to have to introduce in 5B, remember. We know Talia is coming in, and I wouldn't be surprised if we get at least one more "new recurring character" announcement. There's still the matter of the flashbacks (which do take up time in an episode, whether they're enjoyable or not). There's probably at least a couple of minutes to wrap up Diggle's military storyline and something for him to do in 5B (I hope). There's Felicity's arc. Maybe we'll be lucky and get something for Thea and Lance beyond what we've gotten so far. There's still going to be Prometheus out there. There are other threats to the city. There's Oliver as mayor (assuming they don't have him get kicked out of office by then so he can focus on being GA). Etc.

And that's just what we can assume now. (I probably forgot about something we already know about too.) 

[Morrigan2575]

I'm going to LMFAO if Tina is nothing more than a Cop who hates Vigilantes but has to work with (and against) them (as per the episode description) and that the Black Canary the Paps mentioned in 510 is nothing more than a one off character brought in to support KC/LL/BS return episode

Edited November 18, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[tarotx]

Isn't Talia going to be a flashback character? 

[Morrigan2575]

Yes, Talia is a Flashback Character

[statsgirl]

7 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

because they took so much time with Laurel?

We had known Laurel for more than two seasons at that point.  We knew her past with Oliver and Tommy, her loss of Tommy, her drinking arc, her relationship with Sara, with Quentin, with Oliver....

And even though she became InstaCanary, 310 - 312 did spend a lot of airtime on Laurel, as they are spending it now on Wild Dog.  That's why I think 510 - 512 will spend the time on Tina rather than putting Oliver and Felicity together.  Anyway, that's just my speculation.

[Velocity23]

We also knew WD would WD from the scratch. There is no such thing with Tina. She was cast as a cop hating vigilantes.

[apinknightmare]

I think that whenever Oliver and Felicity get back together - regardless of when it is - there won't be a lot of time spent on it, and they'll probably immediately go 4A-style back into the background - a time when it seems there was the least amount of complaining about them, and the show didn't spend a whole lot of time on them as a couple. Most scenes we got of them together also advanced the plot. 

[Chaser]

Does anyone else think this could be PBs last season?

[looptab]

To those concerned that the show won't reunite Oliver and Felicity  because of the other thousand things that are supposed to be happening, I'd like to remind you of episode 413, which had Nyssa escaping from prison, an appearance - with fight - from Tatsu, Thea on death's doorstep, Felicity's father reappearance, the introduction of a magical cure for Thea, a League of Assassins duel, Malcolm Merlyn losing his hand, Nyssa dismantling the League, Malcolm swearing vengeance on Oliver, Felicity's father being arrested and Malcolm revealing William's existence to Dahrk.

This was just one episode.

[statsgirl]

I think it depends on whether they think we're lemmings or not.  If they figure all will be forgiven as soon as Oliver and Felicity get back together, they may rush it in February sweeps and get on to more masks!  more fighting!  If they think telling the story itself will bring in (back?) viewers as it did originally, they'll spend more time on it.

Quote

Does anyone else think this could be PBs last season?

I hope not, because he could be a real asset working with the police department instead of being on Lance/Thea island as he is this season.

Sometimes the CW feels like Soylent Green -- once you reach 35, you're too old and get recycled to make way for younger characters.

Edited November 18, 2016 by statsgirl

[AyChihuahua]

10 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Lol how many times is she gonna leave the lair.

 

I am not confirming or denying. Last season was a lesson that people will find excuses to hold on to their own ideas and fears. It was very exhausting last season and not doing that again.

LOL like how we were told KC would never set foot on a DC/Berlanti production again?

[Midnight Lullaby]

From the way they rush through plot sometimes it's entirely possible they are bringing O/F back together after the winter break without a gradual progression but they could also decide to tease the reunion for a while and bring them back together at the end of the season since for now we had no sign that they are heading towards a reconciliation. Teasing a reunion would also be smart IMO, it would get them a bit of buzz on the internet.

[wonderwall]

12 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

LOL like how we were told KC would never set foot on a DC/Berlanti production again?

I don't understand the point of this comment other than to argue for the sake of arguing tbh... Why point fingers?

Edited November 18, 2016 by wonderwall

[Belinea]

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

There's Felicity's arc.

Crying about her dead BF or realizing trusting blindly isn't the best way to go and maybe Oliver was sometimes right in having trust issues?

 

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

she comes in already full of angst and "the best fighter [Oliver or whoever is her LI] has ever seen."

Which is also kind of weird considering he has seen some really good female fighters in his time. But whatever sells the plot I guess. 

Also BS is going to be around for a bit as well, so that storyline will also be mixed in with NewCanary on top of everything else. 

Additionally, I still don't care about Wild Dog.

[Chaser]

You guys are killing me with the audition sides. Lol

Regardless of Tina and basically any future storyline, I think the buildup of Olicity is going to be a few meaningful looks and a couple conversations. Not a lot of time spent on it.

[Morrigan2575]

32 minutes ago, Chaser said:

You guys are killing me with the audition sides. Lol

Regardless of Tina and basically any future storyline, I think the buildup of Olicity is going to be a few meaningful looks and a couple conversations. Not a lot of time spent on it.

Which, IMO is exactly as it should be. Arrow is not a RomCom or a Relationship Drama.  Romance should support the show and characters, it shouldn't BE the story, IMO.  Olicity worked well in 4A because it wasn't THE story, it was used to support THE story and the characters

Edited November 18, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Midnight Lullaby]

It shouldn't be the story but going from Felicity trying to figure out if she and mayo are real and Oliver developing a friendship/relationship/whatever that is assuming that it's real to Oliver and Felicity back together the next episode simply makes no sense to me. As a natural progression I mean to explain how the characters get to one point to another, not to make it the story, just to not spring it on me and make me guess the rest.

If they throw a couple of hints before putting them back together IMO it would work for them too in the sense that could win them back a bit of online engagement. Make people excited. It doesn't have to be anything big, just give a hint that's the direction, if it is. I know they like their "shocking" that are never shocking moments but maybe this time something different would work better.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[Velocity23]

31 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

LOL like how we were told KC would never set foot on a DC/Berlanti production again?

except for guest appearances. But then you guys never believed it when people even suggested KCs character is gonna die.

[Chaser]

I know some are about the journey with Olicity, but these writers are just not good at that at all. So I say rush it. The writers made the break up contrived and the rebound relationships ridiculous, that I will willingly buy them being like "I'm so sorry, that was so stupid, I love you, that's skip the dating and get married.'

Bring it. I need some S4a Olicity back. I need some heart.

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I know some are about the journey with Olicity, but these writers are just not good at that at all. So I say rush it. The writers made the break up contrived and the rebound relationships ridiculous, that I will willingly buy them being like "I'm so sorry, that was so stupid, I love you, that's skip the dating and get married.'

Bring it. I need some S4a Olicity back. I need some heart.

I miss 4A Olicity too, but at the same time, I don't want them to rush their reunion and then stick their relationship in the background after spending time in 5A on their rebound relationships. 

Oh, and yeah, I'm going to need an "I'm sorry" from Oliver. I don't care if MG thinks he "apologized in his own way." 

[Midnight Lullaby]

12 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

except for guest appearances. But then you guys never believed it when people even suggested KCs character is gonna die.

I have trust issues because last year I believed someone who swore she had inside informations and that LL was dying only to find out she lied. She had no inside info and she only end up guessing right. It's entirely possible you are right but after last year, after this year people swore the boyfriend was going to last two episodes I think I'm out of trust to give, LOL. I hope you won't take it the wrong way..

[tv echo]

From the DR/NM panel at Fan Expo Vancouver (video just posted in the Social Media thread)...

-- On what they'd like to see happen for their characters, DR: "Well, I think Diggle should now have yet another baby that Flash - (audience laughs) I'm like, you know, Lyla could've just had another child. Um, I don't know, man... I kinda thought that they might squeeze in John Stewart someplace for John Diggle... Well, they've talked about that, but I don't think that's going to happen... I think you'll continue kinda seeing, um - ... Felicity and John Diggle, probably more so than any other characters, really facilitate the evolution of our hero, Oliver Queen. And, um - and I think the question of whether or not he's going to [burr?-unintelligible word]. I think that's going to come back under the table. I think you're going to see Oliver [I think he meant to say Diggle here] and Felicity in particular kind of, um, help our hero even become more of a hero, believe it or not. And I think they kinda facilitate that evolution. So, I think that's a big part of that. And I know that kinda takes away from their personal lives, but that's TV Land too. You have a hero and it's called Arrow for a reason. And it's about the evolution - and though you have these offshoots and these other relationships, it really is about Arrow - and these other characters kinda facilitate that. So I think that's a big part of it. And, I think the other part of is, I think you're going to flesh out what's happening between Lyla and Diggle because Lyla is now Amanda Waller. She commands, um, you know, a kinda shady, nefarious group of superheroes in the Suicide Squad. And, um, even though we aren't really talking about Suicide Squad, she's still part of that organization. So I think we'll kinda flesh that out. And maybe we'll see some type or another, what happens in the future in terms of JJ and how he becomes Connor Hawke and all this other stuff... There's a lot more story to tell with Diggle, but the big part of it is how he helps Oliver become [a more effective hero? - not sure of these words]."

-- On whether Oliver and Diggle will continue to alternate being the voice of reason for each other, DR: "I think so. I think you'll see more of that... I think for the most part - and you'll see some of it this season - Stephen has a moment where Diggle is there once again to console, exhort, and, uh - because Oliver [gets/is?] going through something very traumatic. And, um, I think, even though you see that kind of see-saw in terms of who takes the lead role in kind of being the mentor, I think for the most part you'll see Diggle taking that [mantle?-not sure of word]."

-- DR: "Even though we've kinda gotten away from it so far, it'll be going back to kinda that core three because we really do think that's kinda the core of the show [not sure of these exact words]... But we'll find out through these - this new blood in terms of who fits into that. And I think they're kind of trying to figure that out right now. I think there will be additions to the team. Right? We lost a major piece of it. There needs to be - I think there needs to be more - some more feminine energy. It's kind of male dominated. And, um, we'll see. We'll see what happens with that." 

Edited November 18, 2016 by tv echo

[ComicFan777]

I'm all for a fast olicity reunion as long as they don't make Oliver pull this crap again because he didn't deal with these issues and didn't learn his lesson.

[Cleanqueen]

I want them to get back together but acknowledge that they want to take it slow, that they would like to be in each others lives but still try to explore the beginning stages of dating. I'll forever be bitter we never got the summer of longing looks and sexual tensions before Oliver asked her out on a date. Or the summer in IVY town when they were trying to learn about each other. This isn't a show about that but I'm ok with little crumbs here and there and in the finale they decide to get married during a serious situation. Oliver in his GA costume, felicity in a red dress, with her hair and ponytail all messy and then all of a sudden Diggle says he's now an ordained minister and can perform marriages.

[statsgirl]

Quote

There's a lot more story to tell with Diggle, but the big part of it is how he helps Oliver become [a more effective hero? - not sure of these words]."

I like how he knows his place on the show, and that it's not about him, it's about supporting the title character.

[Chaser]

Normally I would agree, but I'm kind of over Oliver needing so much support. Both physically with all these boobs and emotionally with all the pep talks.

[statsgirl]

I meant "support" in the sense of a supporting player.

But yeah, at this point I'm so over Oliver making stupid decisions (like confiding in a reporter who wants to bring him down) and needing pep talks.

[insomniadreams88]

8 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Normally I would agree, but I'm kind of over Oliver needing so much support. Both physically with all these boobs and emotionally with all the pep talks.

 

4 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I meant "support" in the sense of a supporting player.

But yeah, at this point I'm so over Oliver making stupid decisions (like confiding in a reporter who wants to bring him down) and needing pep talks.

Maybe that's the real reason he spoke to the reporter. He knew that anyone else would be like, "Uh, Oliver, you've been given this pep talk X times already..." 

[Morrigan2575]

Why do I have the feeling that Oliver skipped his wedding?

[Chaser]

Lol Those looked hand picked by Chico.

[apinknightmare]

"Laurel, I have to know. What in the f*ck are all those rings for?"

 

 

Looks like Felicity and Ray are engaged or married as well (based on the ring on her finger - the only ring on her fingers thank god). 

Edited November 18, 2016 by apinknightmare

[calliope1975]

I feel SA's NOTP coming through in a still photo. Also, Laurel looks like a robot. Anyhoo, looks interesting.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I have to say, KC actually looks gorgeous in those photos. 

[Angel12d]

What is it with this show and their badly-fitted wedding dresses? LOL. She still looks pretty though. But same as Felicity's dress in s4, it doesn't fit around the top. I know! Stupid detail to focus on. I can't help it!

Can't wait until they kill the aliens who created this world full of NOTP's. Kill 'em all! Haha.

Susanna Thompson continues to look gorgeous and ageless. How does she do it?!

Also...are they in a shared delusion/dream world? It seems like it, especially as Oliver tells Thea "We can't stay here." I guess that's why Felicity is left to team up with Flash and Supergirl?