Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Guest]

Yeah, I hope SA not filming with DR and EBR (I think, the tweet didn't really make it clear whether it was just DR or EBR and DR) is just about the scheduling of filming two episodes at once right now and not an indication of things to come. Because if they remove Felicity and Diggle and lessen their screentime to introduce the newbies who IDGAF about, I will have ragey face. 

[AyChihuahua]

30 minutes ago, Chaser said:

SA was asked on Twitter about an OTA picture and he said they haven't worked together since April. Looks like no Diggle in the first 2 episodes. :-(

Huh, so the sizzle reel WILL be light on the OTA. 

I would be very surprised if Digg wasn't in the first two episodes at all. I mean, apparently they're fine with not having him/OTA in the sizzle, bc they knew what footage they'd have for that, but I expect him in at least 5.02.

Edited July 21, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[TimetravellingBW]

I'm beginning to think they don't even want anyone to watch S5. At this rate I'm expecting the show to be Oliver chilling back in the lair smoking an old-man pipe and watching an army of newbies head onto the streets with Laurel Lance  memorabilia. Occasionally he might get calls from these other folks called Felicity and Diggle about how life is going. And who is this Thea person you speak of?

Edited July 21, 2016 by TimetravellingBW

[AyChihuahua]

3 minutes ago, TimetravellingBW said:

I'm beginning to think they don't even want anyone to watch S5. At this rate I'm expecting the show to be Oliver chilling back in the lair smoking an old-man pipe and watching an army of newbies head onto the streets with Laurel Lance  memorabilia. Occasionally he might get calls from these other folks called Felicity and Diggle about how life is going. And Thea? Whose Thea? 

At least Thea has been in a picture with him. She apparently matters enough to him to be at his mayoral event. Felicity though...who dat?

[TimetravellingBW]

1 minute ago, AyChihuahua said:

Felicity though...who dat?

I don't know but I've heard she's got pretty cool friends and they have a show together. 

[AyChihuahua]

3 minutes ago, TimetravellingBW said:

I don't know but I've heard she's got pretty cool friends and they have a show together. 

Ooh, what time, and what channel? That sounds like a show that won't piss me off most of the time!

Oh wait, Oliver was in a pic with Thea, and Thea was in a pic with Felicity. So there ya go, there's the Olicity! Just one degree of separation!

Edited July 21, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[foreverevolving]

11 hours ago, quarks said:

Now, now, let's not be too harsh on Flash. Or rather, let's be harsh on Flash, but not regarding the Jitters set - that was a brand new set with two trick moving walls and one trick window wall, similar to the QC/PT set. I would like it quite a lot if it would stop making occasional appearances on Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow, but I am perhaps being too picky.

The Jitters set didn't take over the Verdant set - those two sets were standing sets throughout most of Arrow season three and Flash season one. I'm not entirely sure what happened to the Verdant set although the props have been popping up into multiple scenes, which is nice and efficient. Given its comparatively large size, my guess is that it was written out to allow the shows to fit two smaller standing or temporary sets into that soundstage area. Or somebody was sad that the Verdant set didn't have any trick windows for vigilantes to leap through.  Possibly the Star City window repair lobbying group, wanting to make sure that they can keep the city's one successful business going. 

Is it possible that Verdant set became the new lair set?

the overall size of both sets looks pretty similar to me.

[wonderwall]

Just gonna leave this here and go...

[AyChihuahua]

[Chaser]

That's just make sure no one is looking forward to anything.

[way2interested]

I always thought that second tweet was just trying for damage control/defensive tweeting since it was partially his episode that was getting hated on. Oliver/Diggle is something that I kind of have more confidence on since there's really nothing about them in the show that's bothered me thus far, other than not having it.

[AyChihuahua]

8 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I always thought that second tweet was just trying for damage control/defensive tweeting since it was partially his episode that was getting hated on. 

His tweet is dated the same day as the episode, so he's pretty quick on the draw if that's the case.

[way2interested]

Just now, AyChihuahua said:

His tweet is dated the same day as the episode, so he's pretty quick on the draw if that's the case.

I just remember the tweet coming out a while after I saw the episode (I'm on the east coast and the tweet has 10:10 p.m. on it, so fairly after the immediate response from the episode came out), and I was honestly trying to figure out if he was being serious or not. 

[quarks]

1 hour ago, foreverevolving said:

Is it possible that Verdant set became the new lair set?

the overall size of both sets looks pretty similar to me.

Very possible. 

[bijoux]

A few people on Twitter have floated the theory that Oliver gets kidnapped like he did in the pilot. With the repurposed original lair and blood on SA's dress shirt, it certainly seems plausible. And with DR in the production office, could it be that it's Spartan who comes to save the mayor? Oliver can certainly afford to draw attention even less than in the pilot and he's not using the same methods he did then. I'd find it beyond awesome if Felicity and Dig organized a swift extraction while the newbies are adrift. Or even better, if they were like, mayor, schmayor, I don't even bother to learn their names anymore.

[tv echo]

Laurel's last words to Oliver?  Here's my guesses ;) ...

1. "Earn this."

2.  "I'll never let [you] go."

3. "If you build it, [they] will come." (referring to new vigilantes)

[tv echo]

For those who couldn't read the scans, here's a summary of all Arrow spoilers from TV Guide's Comic-Con Special issue...

-- WM: "When we come back in Season 5, [Star City's] overrun with crime." Per WM, Star City is a soft target for gang activity and corruption.

-- Aiming for more integration between Oliver's past and present, WM: "We're going to Russia in the flashbacks [to explore our hero's time with the Bratva]." At the same time, the current storyline will see the Russian Mafia making trouble for a wave of self-appointed vigilantes running amok in Star City.

-- On GA's next nemesis:  WM: "[Season 5's villain] is somebody Oliver unwittingly created in Season 1 when he was a killer in a hood... This guy is going to be collateral damage who lost someone to the Hood and [has] spent the last several years training and plotting for revenge. He will be a true dark mirror to Oliver Queen."

-- Per WM, Team Arrow will need to be rebuilt. Since Diggle was heading back to the military "to find his moral compass" after killing his own brother, and Thea retired her Speedy alias to work in Mayor Queen's office, WM: "Oliver's is going to have to go out and find some new people."

-- On what we should take from Oliver & Felicity being together in the last scene of 423:  With the team essentially dismantled, the exes "were the only two people left in the bunker, which we felt was symbolic," WM said. But don't assume that means Olicity lives again. WM: "We deliberately left it ambiguous."

-- Per WM, Curtis will attempt to become an official member of Team Arrow. WM: "We will be doing a real origin story for Mr. Terrific in Season 5."

-- On whether Roy Harper might return, WM: We would love to bring Colton [Haynes] back... If Colton's available and we can make everyone's schedules work, we would absolutely do it." 

-- On what Laurel whispered to Oliver before she died, per WM, her last words will be revealed in 501. 

-- On Laurel's controversial death and whether someone else will take up the mantle of BC, WM: "I can't say too much about that... I can say with confidence that, in Season 5, our decision will make more sense...even to the fans who were really vehemently opposed to it." 

-- In response to question of whether KC could show up as Black Canary (a JSA member in the comics) on LoT, MG (with a laugh): "No, that conflicts with other plans we have...he said, intentionally misleading and hopefully teasing." 

Edited July 21, 2016 by tv echo

[Chaser]

Regarding SA saying they hadn't worked together since April, I took that to mean OTA hasn't. 

[AyChihuahua]

2 hours ago, Chaser said:

Regarding SA saying they hadn't worked together since April, I took that to mean OTA hasn't. 

DR just came back, though. So it would make perfect sense that he meant DR.

[Morrigan2575]

Why are they putting her statue at the end of a freaking pier? 

They're going to sink it or blow it up aren't they? ?

[TrueMyth]

Off the BTS picture just posted, with the possible statue under a tarp at the end of the pier: I'm just groaning now.  I'm sure they'll dress up the location to make it look a bit better, but it brings to my mind all kinds of jokes about Laurel taking a walk off a pier and sleeping with the fishes.  Or, worse, pining after Oliver when he went off in the Queen's Gambit.

[statsgirl]

15 hours ago, AyChihuahua said:

At least Thea has been in a picture with him. She apparently matters enough to him to be at his mayoral event. Felicity though...who dat?

Didn't WM say that Thea had quit being Speedy and was working in the mayor's office now, meaning the red suit is empty in case Roy ever comes back to the show (and takes it back to the tailor's to let the seams out)?

2 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Why are they putting her statue at the end of a freaking pier? 

They're going to sink it or blow it up aren't they? ?

Think of the story possibilities!  (not to mention the metaphoric ones).

[Chaser]

Birds are going to poop on that. 

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

Didn't WM say that Thea had quit being Speedy and was working in the mayor's office now, meaning the red suit is empty in case Roy ever comes back to the show (and takes it back to the tailor's to let the seams out)?

Yes, that's what WM said in the TV Guide interview which confused me because that's not something they set up at the end of last season. I just thought she was leaving town, not hanging up the hood and sticking around town

[apinknightmare]

Quote

Didn't WM say that Thea had quit being Speedy and was working in the mayor's office now...

Yeah. Thea hung up her hood and is working for Oliver per that TV Guide interview with WM. That's why she was present at that event with all the cops. 

 

ETA: what @Morrigan2575 wrote-we posted at the same time!

Edited July 21, 2016 by apinknightmare

[statsgirl]

Where would Thea go if she left town?  She has no relatives that we know of that she could visit, she did the (fake) touring thing in 2.5 and she's not the kind of person who would do a study year abroad.  It makes a kind of  sense that if she's trying to find herself she would stay close to her only relative but hang up the hood because that's something she was thrust into because of MM.

I just saw that picture with the possible statue.  Wow, that's ridiculously big to put where people gather for pleasure.  If someone put something that big at the end of my pier, I'd be tempted to things at it, like tomatoes.

[AyChihuahua]

Thea works for Oliver bc the writers made the choice for her to work for Oliver. So they care enough about THAT relationship to keep it close.

Thea doesn't need to leave town to have a life outside of her brother. There are many story possibilities in-between them continuing to be the closest siblings since VC Andrews and her leaving town.

[statsgirl]

If Thea doesn't work for Oliver in the mayor's office, then she hits the Laurel s2 problem where the character is completely tangential to the show.  Oliver is no longer affiliated with Verdant so it wouldn't help to have her open that, and they're not living together any more (presumably Thea still has Laurel's/Curtis' set and Oliver is living whereever.

At least Felicity still has contact with Oliver because they're both working in the lair together.

[apinknightmare]

Thea worked on Oliver's campaign, why wouldn't she work in his administration? Isn't that usually how it goes?

Edited July 21, 2016 by apinknightmare

[kismet]

Could it be possible that the Pier was the cheapest or the only available set to film the statue and then they are just going to CGI it into another part of the city? It's certainly harder for fans/paparazzi to get to the pier to spoil the big reveal. If they are crossboarding, perhaps they needed the pier to film some criminal activity & stunt sequences - so they just took the opportunity to multi-task and get the statue reveal done. Perhaps it was too expensive to find a new place for one scene.

Since the statue spoiler was revealed awhile back, I suggested that its sole purpose was to be destroyed to trigger TA to defend LL's legacy. A big visual scene. Putting it on the Pier might be any easy way to make that happen.

As for the poster above who said it brings up ideas that LL is forever pining for Ollie and looking out over where the Gambit left, well that seems very plausible. They already destroyed her character with that deathbed confessional. It's only fitting that they would put a statue up that would further that goal of making LL look pathetically weak & hopelessly in love with Ollie. Bonus points if the engraving references her eternal love for the love of her life.

[foreverevolving]

37 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Why are they putting her statue at the end of a freaking pier? 

They're going to sink it or blow it up aren't they? ?

One can only hope.

[tangerine95]

I think its good that Thea works with Oliver. It gives her a day job when she goes back to being speedy so she's not just all about the mask ,it keeps her connected to Oliver while she's off the team and it gives Oliver someone familiar to work with so it's not all new characters around him. I like Thea and Oliver scenes, i just dislike the show constantly using Thea to connect Malcolm to Oliver by making her a victim and needing to be saved all the time. 

[calliope1975]

That statue is going to be engraved with "Laurel "Black Canary" Lance - Always trying to save the world." That guarantees it will be destroyed within the year. (Also, Buffy did it better.)

[AyChihuahua]

25 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Thea worked on Oliver's campaign, why wouldn't she work in his administration? Isn't that usually how it goes?

IRL, sure. In Arrow, it goes however the writers want it to go. They want to keep Oliver and Thea EXTREMELY close, again.

Someone tell me another elected officeholder of a relatively major position who has his 22-year-old sister working for him.

Ooh, maybe they'll live together in the loft again. Because 30-year-old dudes and their 22-year-old sisters do that. (I mean on Arrow, we know that 29-year-old dudes and their 21-year-old sisters live together.)

[kismet]

I would like to see TQ go to university and get an business degree, so that she can take back her parent's legacy and run a version of QC. But that is a pipe dream at this point. I think she has the acumen for a CEO more than OQ. And I would like to see them show that women can run/start companies on their own without being evil or handed the company by a guy. I also have a feeling OQ is going to be Mayor for awhile, so he won't be needing a job.

Maybe she can be doing some classes and helping her brother out at the same time. It does make sense to me that she would be working for the Mayor, since she did work on his campaign and he needs familiar people around him. I don't find it weird or that it keeps them extremely close. If they move in together again, that might be a little odd - and definitely weird at this point. But them working together seems pretty logical from both a TV & real world mindset.

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, AyChihuahua said:

IRL, sure. In Arrow, it goes however the writers want it to go. They want to keep Oliver and Thea EXTREMELY close, again.

Someone tell me another elected officeholder of a relatively major position who has his 22-year-old sister working for him.

She pretty much took over his campaign and ran things with Alex, and was inexplicably good at it despite not having graduated from college or having anything to do with politics previously. So at this point her working for him in a similar capacity once he's actually elected isn't much of a stretch.

I'd rather watch her with Oliver than off doing dumb, nonsensical shit with Merlyn or however else they used to tie her story into the main narrative. 

[statsgirl]

On a show where a 4 college drop out was running a multi-billion dollar company like QC,  it seems reasonable that 22 year old Thea would be working in the mayor's office. 22 isn't that young and she's had experience both at Verdant and Oliver's campaign.  (At 21 I was booking major Hollywood stars for a TV talk show.)

If this were real life, aimless Thea would work with Oliver in the mayor's office (because you know Star City has to be a mess after DD and Ruve killed so many officials off) and she'd realize that she was pretty good at this organizational thing, just like she was at running Verdant, and decide that she was going to take some business courses, finding that as a focus to her life.  As a bonus, in the mayor's office she can cover for Oliver when he has to run off and don the green leather.

 

13 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I'd rather watch her with Oliver than off doing dumb, nonsensical shit with Merlyn or however else they used to tie her story into the main narrative. 

Anything but that again!  Two and a half years of that was enough.

[bijoux]

Not that it matters in the scheme of things, but Thea still hasn't turned 22. She will be sometime in the first part of the season. I don't really remember which S1 episode it was that she turned 18 off the top of my head.

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Why are they putting her statue at the end of a freaking pier? 

They're going to sink it or blow it up aren't they? ?

That's my fervent hope, that some baddie will do it at one point :P Also, pier? Man, that statue is going to get crapped on by seagulls and that makes me laugh so much.

Edited July 21, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva

[Sunshine]

Build a memorial and it gets destroyed.  They then realize the best type of legacy might be intangible?

[Belinea]

So maybe someone asked that already and I just completely missed it (then I might be incapable of reading) So Thea will already be back in 5x01 and PB will be back by 5x01 or 5x02. 

So did QL and DS break up because she obviously isn't back with him?

God knows, I couldn't care less about the golden statue.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Belinea

[Guest]

I really hope Quentin and Donna have broken up. I can't stand SmoaknLance. Actually, tbh, Donna annoyed me a lot in s4 so I'm quite happy for her not to be around much at all.

As for BC's statue, I'm expecting Oliver and/or Thea or pretty much any of them to have a few scenes where they go and stand in front of it and wonder what would Laurel do? Like somehow they gave a crap about her opinion this whole time. I love retcons! Haha. 

[Starfish35]

You know, I'm not sure I care whether Quentin and Donna are still together.  I used to be aboard the SmoaknLance ship, but I reaalllly didn't like her guilting Quentin into confessing that he knew Laurel was BC and costing him his job.  Especially when in the next episode she turned around and ran Felicity's dad off, and then lied to Felicity about it.  

I'm not saying it's irreparable, but my love for Donna took a major hit at the end of the season.  

[statsgirl]

Guilting Quentin in to admitting he knew Laurel was the BC is one of those things the writers thinks was awesome and the right thing to do.  sigh

Quite possibly revealing that she was the one who left Noah was their attempt to justify Oliver Oliver's actions with BMD.

I still like Donna because she's fun and lightens up the show, and Felicity needs someone to talk to, Curtis is just not going to cut it.  I'm not surprised CR's not back with PB because she's a recurring character, if she's back for s5 at all, rather than main cast.

[Guest]

Donna is fine in small doses. She was too much in s4. And that whole business with Felicity and Noah just turned me off completely. Hopefully they just keep her scenes to minimum every now and then.

[Morrigan2575]

I like Donna and I like Donna/Lance. I hope we get to see.more of her and them. However, I think 3-5 episodes a season would be a good amount of Donna. 

I also want to see Noah come back for a couple of episodes, I don't think that was wrapped at all. Way to much left underdeveloped.

[kismet]

I hope Donna & QL are not broken up. If only because I do like them together & QL deserves happiness. The whole Donna guilting him is something I can forgive only because I think it was done for plot purposes & St. Laurel. And so if I can forgive many other characters for the plot purposes lapse of judgement, I can forgive Donna for that.

I was not mad with what Donna did with Noah. I just think there are more behind that interaction than we know. Or at least that is how I justify it in my head. I also think they saved stuff to bring Noah back.

I will agree that Donna is better in small doses. I'm glad she is just recurring and not a regular. She can still be with QL and offscreen.

Edited July 21, 2016 by kismet

[Starfish35]

I wouldn't have been bothered so much by what she did with Noah if she had not, just in the previous episode, made a huge huge deal about honesty.  And then she turned around and lied to Felicity, making it sound like Noah decided to leave all on his own.   Not cool, Donna.  

And I know it was plot point to get Quentin out of the police for good (I'm not sure I understand why yet), but I just had a really hard time with that rigid stance she took with him on the subject.  

Edited July 21, 2016 by Starfish35

[apinknightmare]

31 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Donna is fine in small doses. 

I like her in small doses too, but I don't really care for her and Quentin, and I wouldn't be upset if they broke up and Donna stayed away for a while. Or longer than a while, haha.

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

And I know it was plot point to get Quentin out of the police for good (I'm not sure I understand why yet), but I just had a really hard time with that rigid stance she took with him on the subject.  

Maybe it was to make room for the new cop who is going to serve as an antagonist to Oliver/GA.  Having Quentin be the power of the police dept and 100% on Oliver's side could get boring.

What I really hate is that Donna offered to give Lance a blow job in his office to relax him or rather how she offered.  That moved beyond fun into crude.

I don't mind her leaving Noah because he wasn't going to change, he made that clear when he never tried to contact Felicity until he thought he could use her.  Should she have told Felicity that it was her decision to leave and not Noah's?  In theory yes. In practice, Felicity would have been out looking for him as soon as she could, which given her computer abilities would have been when she was 12.  Could she have handled it and put him into perspective?  Donna apparently thought not.

I think Donna is a good character the writers went too far with. That's a problem they often have with female characters (Dinah, Thea, Laurel).  With the men, not so much other than Lance's vendetta in s3 when he projected Sara's death on to Oliver and Barrowman in seasons 3 and 4 because they love him so much.

I wish they would tone her down to s3 levels but often on this show, I'm just glad for anything I can get that isn't depressing or male-heavy.

Edited July 21, 2016 by statsgirl