Spoiler Discussion Thread

[looptab]

I think we should bring this over to the relationship thread.. :)

[HJCougar]

3 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I understood why she forgave her mother, even if I wouldn't have faulted her if she got mad in the moment she found out before forgiving her because the lie was about something big. But I think what Donna did was understandable. What I didn't like was Donna making the decision for Felicity at the end of the episode because now Felicity is an adult and more than capable of making her own decisions.

I'm conflicted at what Donna did.  I do see your point but I just don't know that I buy that Donna was a making a decision for Felicity at the end so much as I got the feeling she just wanted Noah gone because of something sinister she knows about.  I think there is more to the story than just what was spilled the other night and she is still protecting Felicity from whatever that is.  And Noah leaving was ultimately his own decision.  Donna couldn't make him do anything.  I didn't like her lie to Felicity when she returned to the loft though.  She could have told Felicity that she asked Noah to go and he did.  I don't think he's really gone though.  If I remember correctly, when PB & EK were taking snapchats and BTS photos the last couple of days of shooting, EBR was in the make-up chair and TA was standing in the door of the make-up room, so wouldn't that mean he's going to be in the finale?

1 minute ago, ComicFan777 said:

As much as I understand why Donna lied and why Felicity quickly forgave her, I wish that Donna had told Felicity the truth sooner - when she was old enough to understand her mother's reasons, but well before she was 26.  It's heartbreaking to think that Felicity grew up thinking: "When I was a girl, I hated myself.  I thought I was broken.  That no one could or ever would love me.  It's the only way a child can grow up when their father abandons them.  All I ever wanted to know was, what was so wrong with me, that you would leave."

Does Donna even know that Felicity feels that way?  For years Donna thought she would lose Felicity because she wasn't as smart as Felicity and Noah.  I have to wonder if she was so certain of her own inadequacies that she didn't realize that Felicity would feel unloved because Donna loved her so much.  I don't remember a scene where Felicity ever said she felt that way to Donna.  Maybe I am forgetting that scene?  Add in the fact that Felicity left home early to go to college and never really ever went back, I don't know when Donna would have felt the time was right to tell Felicity.  Although, regardless of time, I don't think she ever would have told her since she thought that Noah was out of their life forever, unless Felicity had told her that she felt no one would ever love her because her father abandoned her.  If she had, I think Donna would have owned up to the lie/decision to protect her by taking her away from her father.  I don't think Donna would have let her suffer that way for something she, herself, did.  But maybe I'm blinded by my love for Donna and her love for Felicity.

[Midnight Lullaby]

33 minutes ago, HJCougar said:

I'm conflicted at what Donna did.  I do see your point but I just don't know that I buy that Donna was a making a decision for Felicity at the end so much as I got the feeling she just wanted Noah gone because of something sinister she knows about.  I think there is more to the story than just what was spilled the other night and she is still protecting Felicity from whatever that is.  And Noah leaving was ultimately his own decision.  Donna couldn't make him do anything.  I didn't like her lie to Felicity when she returned to the loft though.  She could have told Felicity that she asked Noah to go and he did.  I don't think he's really gone though.  If I remember correctly, when PB & EK were taking snapchats and BTS photos the last couple of days of shooting, EBR was in the make-up chair and TA was standing in the door of the make-up room, so wouldn't that mean he's going to be in the finale?

Does Donna even know that Felicity feels that way?  For years Donna thought she would lose Felicity because she wasn't as smart as Felicity and Noah.  I have to wonder if she was so certain of her own inadequacies that she didn't realize that Felicity would feel unloved because Donna loved her so much.  I don't remember a scene where Felicity ever said she felt that way to Donna.  Maybe I am forgetting that scene?  Add in the fact that Felicity left home early to go to college and never really ever went back, I don't know when Donna would have felt the time was right to tell Felicity.  Although, regardless of time, I don't think she ever would have told her since she thought that Noah was out of their life forever, unless Felicity had told her that she felt no one would ever love her because her father abandoned her.  If she had, I think Donna would have owned up to the lie/decision to protect her by taking her away from her father.  I don't think Donna would have let her suffer that way for something she, herself, did.  But maybe I'm blinded by my love for Donna and her love for Felicity.

Honestly I don't think there's more to what Noah did. He just let Donna down too many times for her to trust him again, which is fine, but her story doesn't have to be Felicity's story. If there was something more I wouldn't be fine with it either because in that case she should have come clean with Felicity because she has a right to know. She made the decision IMO because she pressured him into leaving. If she didn't say anything he wouldn't have left and Felicity could have chosen if she wanted to have him around or not. Donna told her over and over again he is a terrible person and people don't change. Fine, that's her opinion, I'm sure Felicity understood her POV, the rest for me is overstepping boundaries because Felicity is an adult. I think the best relationship between a parent and an adult daughter/son is the one where the parent recognize they are equals and respect the daughter/son decisions.

I don't remember TA being with them in the make up room, I don't think he will be in the finale.

I think Donna knows Felicity has issues because she believed her father abandoned her. When Felicity was fighting with Oliver in 4x06 the first thing Donna told her was that Oliver isn't her father because she realized Felicity's lack of trust in men comes from that.

I find what you said about Donna loving Felicity so much and feeling inadequate because Felicity is so much more like her dad very interesting because that's the vibe she gave me in the last episode when Felicity called Noah dad after he complimented her for her hacking skills and Donna clearly was hurt. I think she did what she did in the end because she honestly believes Noah can't change (and as I said I think Felicity should be the judge of that) and also because she was afraid she was going to lose her, which I can sympathize with but find a questionable behavior.

I would move it into the relationship thread if someone told me how to quote something in another thread because I have no idea, I'm sorry :/

Edited May 20, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[Genki]

14 minutes ago, tv echo said:

-- On whether there's a relationship or aspect of Oliver that he hasn't gotten to explore yet that he's hoping to explore in season 5:
SA: "The public visage and version of Oliver Queen within Star City is something that we really haven't touched on. And I think that something happens in the finale that will help change that."

I'm still wondering if they are going to do Oliver revels himself as the Green Arrow. There was a time in 4.22 where the awful family was complaining about not having hope, which made me think maaaybe. This quote gives me hope that is will not happen. I really would like more of Oliver's relationship with the city, but in double life way.  

I wonder how they will advise people of Ruve's death, will they out her as being Mrs Evil? I wonder if he will get the Mayorship in 4.23.

[looptab]

What Stephen said about the flashbacks..that he might line up with Y5 fb Oliver...uh? How???

[nksarmi]

Before this goes to the relationship thread.... I just wanted to say that I understand Donna so perfectly. But I have a personal bias - I haven't seen my bio dad since I was about 7 or 8 and I think if I found out it was because my mom prevented it and not because he chose it - l wouldn't care. But I'm 40 (ouch that hurts to type!) and I guess I figure he's had more than long enough to get ahold of me if he wanted it.

In Felicity's case, she knows her dad is a criminal so there is very little reason for her to even question Donna kicking him to the curb. And she is 26 and he has been following her. And he had no problem popping into her life to steal her tech. So while it's great that Noah helped save the world - he's not a good guy and I'm still on Donna's side.

If my bio dad had showed up when I was 26 and my mom told him that he needed to skidaddle - I wouldn't have been mad at her either. I wouldn't have looked him up or anything and I would have totally understood where she was coming from. And I'd bet money that Donna had/has no idea that Felicity ever felt unloved because her dad was gone. Donna sees Felicity as a beautiful, smart, amazing woman - of course she never questioned that Noah's absence made her daughter feel bad. She probably could never imagine anyone thinking badly of Felicity when she thinks so well of her.

And honestly, I'd say the only questionable thing I've ever found is that Felicity was insecure about not being lovable because he dad was gone. I had some issues to deal with but I never felt unlovable and I was never as cool or together as Felicity. I know everyone has irrational issues, but I just don't buy that one for Felicity. I think it was a "text book syndrome" (ie girls who grow up without dads have love life issues) rather than an "in character" moment.

[apinknightmare]

9 minutes ago, Genki said:

I'm still wondering if they are going to do Oliver revels himself as the Green Arrow. There was a time in 4.22 where the awful family was complaining about not having hope, which made me think maaaybe. This quote gives me hope that is will not happen. I really would like more of Oliver's relationship with the city, but in double life way.  

I wonder how they will advise people of Ruve's death, will they out her as being Mrs Evil? I wonder if he will get the Mayorship in 4.23.

I think he's probably talking about becoming mayor.

[AyChihuahua]

Yeah, I'm betting mayor.

I'm a bit nervous about SA saying FB Oliver and present-day S5 Oliver might line up. I really cannot take another serious regression from him.

Maybe it'll just be the hair and beard.

[Velocity23]

[tv echo]

Quote

-- On next season, playing that flashback Oliver that came right into season 1:
SA: "I mean, that'll be fun, man.... Maybe he'll lie just in complete juxtaposition to the Oliver that we see in season 5 in the present day. Or maybe they'll start to line up together again. You never know. Things change."

I think SA was just being coy - present day Oliver will either contrast with flashback Oliver, or present day Oliver will regress back to match with flashback Oliver.

At HVFF-Chicago in March, he had said that Oliver would be a more finalized, balanced Oliver at the end of season 4. If so, then why would Oliver start regressing next season?  What worse things could happen that haven't already happened on the show?

Edited May 20, 2016 by tv echo

[Midnight Lullaby]

Yeah, I doubt Oliver is going to regress in present time, Arrow is a hero's journey, Oliver is supposed to learn and be better and better. I do hope he will start to regress in the FBs because this year they promised dark Oliver and we got zombie poppy instead. Boo.

Also I might be completely superficial but I can't buy Oliver's "pilot look" and Oliver being the mayor. I get that living in SC you can't afford to be picky but I don't think the voters would find the caveman look particularly appealing.

[AyChihuahua]

4 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Also I might be completely superficial but I can't buy Oliver's "pilot look" and Oliver being the mayor. I get that living in SC you can't afford to be picky but I don't think the voters would find the caveman look particularly appealing.

I was totally joking about that. Although now, I kinda want it.

[bijoux]

13 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Yeah, I doubt Oliver is going to regress in present time, Arrow is a hero's journey, Oliver is supposed to learn and be better and better. I do hope he will start to regress in the FBs because this year they promised dark Oliver and we got zombie poppy instead. Boo.

Also I might be completely superficial but I can't buy Oliver's "pilot look" and Oliver being the mayor. I get that living in SC you can't afford to be picky but I don't think the voters would find the caveman look particularly appealing.

Hey, the dude wants the job and is not a pot of evil stew. I don't think they'd care if he wanted to wear a floral bonnet. At least they shouldn't.

[Midnight Lullaby]

11 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Hey, the dude wants the job and is not a pot of evil stew. I don't think they'd care if he wanted to wear a floral bonnet. At least they shouldn't.

Judging from the previous mayors I think the residents of SC are way better at judging good hair/facial hair than evilness. ;)

[kismet]

8 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I thought they cleared the path for redemption with Noah, not Donna because they showed him taking a bullet for Felicity and being there for her when she needed him. He broke her trust the first time they met again this season but he proved he can be worthy of that trust if given another chance and that I think can be applied to the Oliver situation as well.

With Donna I have my doubts because I understood why she left when Felicity was a child but I can't find excuses for what she did at the end of the episode.

With Oliver and Felicity I would have been more than happy if they put them in a situation where Oliver could prove that he meant what he told her about being different but we don't have time for that because poor Thea has to be drugged again and we have to watch zombie poppy going crazy, LOL.

I do think NK's redemption was set up by the bullet he took. I also think NK is going to betray FS the first chance he gets in s5.

I meant redemption for OQ, DS & Baby Mama. Because as much as I don't want it to happen, I do believe SA when he says that we might see the BM again. MG & Co can be pretty stubborn and I don't think they'll let BM go without trying to force it down the audience's throat in s5. I found it interesting that out of all of the ways they could have connected or made a parallel from DS/NK to FS/OQ, they did it by having DS lie to FS and make a decisions for her which is exactly what BM did. They tried to canonize BM in the kidnapping episode and the audience was not buying it, I think they are going to take another swing at it by paralleling it to DS. DS's past lie is connected BM's redemption & her present day choice is going to be linked to OQ's redemption.

I would have been happy if they had never had DS lie to FS so many years ago or at least not make a decision to send NK away again without FS's knowledge. But I've come to expect that they will throw certain characters under the bus because they feel they can. DS is just one of this season's sacrificial lamb for the writers.

[tv echo]

After all that spoiler speculation about Jara Zeimer's role as "Daughter" in 422, I don't think she even spoke a word!

[Midnight Lullaby]

4 minutes ago, kismet said:

I do think NK's redemption was set up by the bullet he took. I also think NK is going to betray FS the first chance he gets in s5.

I meant redemption for OQ, DS & Baby Mama. Because as much as I don't want it to happen, I do believe SA when he says that we might see the BM again. MG & Co can be pretty stubborn and I don't think they'll let BM go without trying to force it down the audience's throat in s5. I found it interesting that out of all of the ways they could have connected or made a parallel from DS/NK to FS/OQ, they did it by having DS lie to FS and make a decisions for her which is exactly what BM did. They tried to canonize BM in the kidnapping episode and the audience was not buying it, I think they are going to take another swing at it by paralleling it to DS. DS's past lie is connected BM's redemption & her present day choice is going to be linked to OQ's redemption.

I would have been happy if they had never had DS lie to FS so many years ago or at least not make a decision to send NK away again without FS's knowledge. But I've come to expect that they will throw certain characters under the bus because they feel they can. DS is just one of this season's sacrificial lamb for the writers.

No, I meant that I think they paved Oliver's path for redemption showing Noah not being as bad as Felicity thought (he didn't really abandon her, he took a bullet for her, he proved she could trust him to help her) because at the end Curtis and Felicity talk about Noah "not having much of a choice" and Felicity thinking her mom was right to think he couldn't change because being a criminal he was going to fall back into old habits (that is what Felicity fears/feared? with Oliver) and Curtis points out how similar the two situations are. So in this scenario Oliver is Noah and Felicity is Donna. I don't think Donna's lie is that significant, but her belief that people don't change is. Obviously Felicity will end up doing the opposite because she believes Oliver can change.

I also don't believe the writers have any plans to bring back BM and the kid next season. SA is insistent because playing a dad was what he wanted for a while, he was enthusiastic about the idea, the writers took it and used it as a plot device, the fans hated it and he will defend it with his last breath even if I honestly doubt that is what he had in mind. The writers didn't even treat BM and the kid as characters. When they weren't on screen Oliver didn't remember they existed, when we saw the worst moments of Oliver's life what happened with the kid wasn't on it..they used them to break up Olicity and now that they served their purpose the writers are fine with the audience forgetting they ever existed until I bet the series finale when they'll remember Oliver has a kid. If he was Connor I would bet on a FF of him being the GA but since he isn't I guess he will still be shown doing something meaningful with his life, possibly following Oliver's legacy in his own way. Also I don't think Donna needs a redemption arc since Felicity was totally fine with her lying to her.

[AyChihuahua]

I personally don't expect BM and/or the spawn to return. I both believe and hope that Guggie and SA would get overruled.

[lemotomato]

I had to do a double take at the comic preview because I thought it was from last week. The first panels with  "Overwatch, nothing's here" and "That's impossible." were so similar.

Who is Felicity talking to in the last panel? Lyla? And is she in the lair? I remember a BTS snapchat with EBR and JB in the bunker.

Edited May 21, 2016 by lemotomato

[Morrigan2575]

Huh, I'm confused. I guess figured Darhk would take Felicity but, it seems that maybe he doesn't?  Basing this on the pics of Felicity/Curtis working together in the publicity pics and the comic preview (which is usually an early episode scene). 

So maybe CRs Snaochat of them on the loft set was them actually filming a loft scene? TA goes to the loft and fends Darhk off?

Quote

Who is Felicity talking to in the last panel?

Lyla

Edited May 21, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[kismet]

Is it lyla?

I was confused to because the dialogue was reminiscent of both the rubicon nuke reveal & the nobody is here. Does seem like a repeat of other shows dialogue.

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Who is Felicity talking to in the last panel? Lyla? And is she in the lair? I remember a BTS snapchat with EBR and JB in the bunker.

Yeah, it looks like Lyla to me.

[Chaser]

Maybe Terrific Curtis fights off DD

[ComicFan777]

...maybe Felicity picked up a few things about magic from the shaman and was able to channel magic without a totem to repel DD...or Donna's long-kept secret is that she is a wizard and Felicity is her totem...

Edited May 21, 2016 by ComicFan777

[way2interested]

36 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Huh, I'm confused. I guess figured Darhk would take Felicity but, it seems that maybe he doesn't?  Basing this on the pics of Felicity/Curtis working together in the publicity pics and the comic preview (which is usually an early episode scene). 

So maybe CRs Snapchat of them on the loft set was them actually filming a loft scene? TA goes to the loft and fends Darhk off?

I'm thinking that Oliver comes back miraculously in time to fend Darhk off with magic tattoo and then on with the plot. The only things that throw me off about that idea though is that I don't remember if EK was around that set (if this is what they were filming), but I could be wrong, and that Darhk still ends up sending out the missiles anyway (per the comic preview). Who knows, but SA did say that the episode doesn't really focus on them trying to rescue Felicity, so I guess he sends out the nukes some other way?

13 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Maybe Terrific Curtis fights off DD

One of Curtis' many other convenient hobbies: magic 

[kismet]

I totally expect Curtis to get in on the Harry Potter references. If someone doesn't mention OQ needs a patronus by the 9pm EST next weds I will be greatly disappointed.

[Genki]

Does Felicity know that TA has Darhk's daughter? Maybe that is what gets rid of him initially.

[kismet]

I can't imagine TA be willing to use DD's child of the corn as a bartering chip. That seems a little too dark for the show.

[Genki]

I didn't say they were bartering, her, but as far as DD knows she is dead.

[kismet]

I sorta don't want to see DD be moved by his daughter being alive. I've had enough fatherly rehabilitations I can take over the past 2 seasons. Even if his daughter is alive, I still want him to take out the whole city for whatever crazy reason the show writes. He needs to be 100% full speed bad guy, I'm glad he felt sad about his wife but I don't want him to change his mind because of his daughter.

[ComicFan777]

I think that DD doesn't know if his daughter is alive or not - he just knows his wife is dead and there were survivors from the dome.  Was Malcolm the one that DD talking to when he mentioned that there is one person that can unlock rubicon?  If he knows DD's plans, I can see Malcolm turning on DD, taking DD's daughter from Team Arrow, and using her as leverage to stop DD from getting Felicity because he doesn't want the nukes to launch since there is no longer a safe haven for him and Thea.

[Password]

Noah is an interesting character because, the show might have been implying in episode 22 that people change, but the way they introduced Noah seems contrary to that. Even a couple of months ago he still blackmailed Roy into stealing something and then still connected with Felicity to steal from Palmer Tech. Dude is pretty self seeking and one day of camaraderie between a woman who seeks approval from the man who abandoned her doesn't take away from the fact that Noah's actions still imply a strong sense of selfishness. And this happened 20 years after he abandoned them (didn't try to contact them) so unless he has a very short learning curve, you could say Donna was very right in saying people don't change. 

Whereas Oliver had months of openness with Felicity and years where Felicity saw his growth personally. I can't help but defend Oliver (grudgingly) because we've seen so much more from him to contradict the "people don't change" stance. 

But I don't think Donna should've told Noah to leave. Just as I don't think he should've left if he really wanted a relationship with Felicity. They're both wrong IMO and it'll be interesting to see if Felicity's reaction is at all explored. 

[BkWurm1]

12 hours ago, kismet said:

I can't imagine TA be willing to use DD's child of the corn as a bartering chip. That seems a little too dark for the show.

I know the original post was actually just thinking Dahrk would back off if he knew she was aliver, but I'm not seeing the downside if they did use the kid unless it's that maybe it would be wrong to stick him (evil guy) back in the kids life.  Of course they won't harm her nor should that ever be threatened, but if they are planning on returning her to her dad, then why shouldn't they make the condition of her return that DD doesn't harm their people?  Again, the only moral quandary I can see is returning her at all.  I think mass murderer would be enough to interest child services. 

[AyChihuahua]

5 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I know the original post was actually just thinking Dahrk would back off if he knew she was aliver, but I'm not seeing the downside if they did use the kid unless it's that maybe it would be wrong to stick him (evil guy) back in the kids life.  Of course they won't harm her nor should that ever be threatened, but if they are planning on returning her to her dad, then why shouldn't they make the condition of her return that DD doesn't harm their people?  Again, the only moral quandary I can see is returning her at all.  I think mass murderer would be enough to interest child services. 

Are superheroes mandatory reporters?

[SmallScreenDiva]

18 hours ago, kismet said:

I can't imagine TA be willing to use DD's child of the corn as a bartering chip. That seems a little too dark for the show.

Wasn't there a comment from Stephen about his team doing things they wouldn't normally do, that Oliver is surprised by how far they would go? I wonder if that was just a reference to Digg killing Andy or if there's more to that. I would love for the team to be smart and use the kid as a bargaining chip. I mean, I'm not talking about dangling the girl at the top of a really tall building, but c'mon. You've got a chip, use it. 

[kismet]

If it was s1 I could see OQ using any chip he got because that was how he rolled. But since that time, TA & the writers have become more reformed in TA operational tactics - that it would be hard for me to imagine TA agreeing to use a kid as a chip. Also the writers were hesitant last season to use Baby Sara in the kidnapping, and many people here had a lot of problems with baby Sara being used at all in the plan. So I have a feeling between the less pragmatic TA & more moralistic writers the kid will be forgotten about as a tactical option.

If it was me on TA, I would suggest using the kid in some way - but then again I'm more pragmatic. I just find it interesting that its OK to use the kid this time because we are just asking DD to stop because he loves his kid. However, other times a father's love is not enough or repetitive and kids are off limits. I just wonder why its OK to use the kid of the bad guy but not the kid of the good guy, when really the motive is the same to force someone to comply to your wishes.

[looptab]

Well, this time the whole world is at stakes? 

They are two completeely different scenarios.

[way2interested]

All I kind of see is Oliver mentioning to Darhk that he saved his daughter and that he dropped her off with the other dome survivors to get him to leave Felicity alone for the time being, kind of like throwing Darhk off his track instead of actually using a kid as a bargaining chip.

[tv echo]

I just really hope that Felicity isn't forced to put Rubicon back on line in order to save the lives of her mother and Curtis, which then enables Darhk to launch the nukes, because that'll just lead to more criticism of her character (like that whole wanting to save Oliver issue last season). Then we'll get into the whole rebuttal again about perfect Barry risking the entire universe to travel back in time to save his mother. And so on and so forth. Just no, please. 

Edited May 22, 2016 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

Ballistic missiles are mentioned in the preview, so it seems like something other than Rubicon threatens them in finale? I'm not up on my weapons though, so maybe they're the same thing. 

[BkWurm1]

18 hours ago, kismet said:

If it was s1 I could see OQ using any chip he got because that was how he rolled. But since that time, TA & the writers have become more reformed in TA operational tactics - that it would be hard for me to imagine TA agreeing to use a kid as a chip. Also the writers were hesitant last season to use Baby Sara in the kidnapping, and many people here had a lot of problems with baby Sara being used at all in the plan. So I have a feeling between the less pragmatic TA & more moralistic writers the kid will be forgotten about as a tactical option.

If it was me on TA, I would suggest using the kid in some way - but then again I'm more pragmatic. I just find it interesting that its OK to use the kid this time because we are just asking DD to stop because he loves his kid. However, other times a father's love is not enough or repetitive and kids are off limits. I just wonder why its OK to use the kid of the bad guy but not the kid of the good guy, when really the motive is the same to force someone to comply to your wishes.

The kid is IMO off limits to target or kidnap for extortion, but they just saved her, if anything DD OWES them one.  Plus, the show is the one that keeps bringing the kid up.  The first time we saw her it was establishing DD as a family man but since then she's been a prop that they just have there reminding us she exists.  I have to think she must have some other purpose beyond having Ruve' ask the team to save her.  (Why was she even there?  Shouldn't she have been off at Dome Daycare while mommy and daddy were busy destroying the world?) 

I don't really think there is a double standard when it comes to leveraging the kid.  It's not ok to use a kid to force someone to do something bad, but I have no issues with if the kid happens to be with them to insist the bad guy does NOT do something bad.  That's really just bringing them to the status quo that any normal person would be expected to do (not do).

 

2 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

Ballistic missiles are mentioned in the preview, so it seems like something other than Rubicon threatens them in finale? I'm not up on my weapons though, so maybe they're the same thing. 

Yeah, I'm waiting for clarification as well.  I'm assuming they are different because these missiles are going to take two hours.

[AyChihuahua]

ICBM (what people mostly think of when they think of nukes) stands for Intercontinental Ballistic Missile. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercontinental_ballistic_missile

Edited May 22, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[apinknightmare]

I just wasn't sure if it was an all nukes are ballistic missiles but all ballistic missiles aren't necessarily nukes kind of situation. 

[AyChihuahua]

9 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I just wasn't sure if it was an all nukes are ballistic missiles but all ballistic missiles aren't necessarily nukes kind of situation. 

I think ballistic has to do with the trajectory, mostly, so theoretically this could mean non-nukes. ICBMs do take awhile, though...that was one of the goofy things in 22, that an ICBM went all the way from Russia to the DC area in a couple minutes. Nope. 

So I'd say, overall, it's probably a reference to the nukes and Rubicon, but not absolutely for sure. I think they'll just come up with some new MacGuffin-y way for DD to launch them. I rather hope he doesn't make Felicity do it, bc I think she'd be too smart for that. (Option A, Miss Smoak, you don't help me launch and I kill everyone you love. Option B, you do help me launch and...I kill everyone you love (plus EVERYONE ELSE). I mean I guess they could play it as she does it with the idea that they'll be able to stop it somehow, but I'd prefer not.)

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, AyChihuahua said:

Option A, Miss Smoak, you don't help me launch and I kill everyone you love. Option B, you do help me launch and...I kill everyone you love (plus EVERYONE ELSE).

This is why I very much doubt that Felicity helps to launch them. The math is simple enough for Arrow writers here, let alone her.

[Morrigan2575]

i'd be OK with 2 different scenarios

1 - Darhk threatens Curtis/Donna and Felicity refuses at which point the Calvary arrives 

2 - Darhk threatens Curtis/Donna and Felicity agrees to help but pulls a fast one that doesn't unlock Rubicon and stalls until the Calvary arrives

The problem with #2 is that I'm pretty sure that's what happened with Cooper in 305.

[bijoux]

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What kind of finally are we getting next week…  last year we ended with Oliver and Felicity riding off into the sunset. Maybe something different than that ? 

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I've been thinking about this. What could he mean? Last year Oliver prayed for Ra's after killing him, wanted to get to know the person he had become if Felicity went with him, he said goodbye to Dig and Thea, handed over the ring to Malcolm and rode off into the sunset with Felicity. So what could look the same? Donna and Lance driving off, team members once again saying goodbye, Oliver and Felicity being on their own, only this time in SC, not on the road? Oliver once again asking something of Felicity or maybe this time she asks something of him? There better not be another reveal of working with Malcolm. I'm not in favor of Oliver giving another big bad a respectful send off, but I'm afraid it's inevitable, especially after his promise to Ruve in 422. You don't owe evil people respect, man.

[dtissagirl]

I don't know whether he's talking about the whole finale, or just the final scene? Do we end on Oliver/Felicity again?

I've been thinking -- if the cavernous space stuff happens in the flashbacks, then the final present-time scene might be  Oliver and Felicity in the cemetery. But whenever that scene happens in the finale, I suspect it'll have some type of heavy-handed "where do we go from here" conversation, that shows their relationship is on the mend.

[AyChihuahua]

43 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

i'd be OK with 2 different scenarios

1 - Darhk threatens Curtis/Donna and Felicity refuses at which point the Calvary arrives 

2 - Darhk threatens Curtis/Donna and Felicity agrees to help but pulls a fast one that doesn't unlock Rubicon and stalls until the Calvary arrives

The problem with #2 is that I'm pretty sure that's what happened with Cooper in 305.

That's like twelve generations ago in Arrow-world. They think repeating stuff from three episodes ago is somehow super cool. (Not callbacks, etc., but flat-out repeating storylines.)

[looptab]

Well, not exactly. In 305 when Cooper threatened Donna, Felicity simply did what he asked, no tricks. It's only because she realized she had wifi (thanks to Ray's watch) that she was able to signal her position and ask for help. So option #2 would be slightly different :)

Edited May 23, 2016 by looptab