Spoiler Discussion Thread

[dtissagirl]

Technically she can't even take a complete break from the team because she's gonna need to keep paying their bills.

[AyChihuahua]

But we know he's back trying to save her next epi, so at worst they'll do what they've done before, which is that the post-hiatus episode happens more or less immediately after the prior episode, THEN there's a time lapse. So she could take a month or whatever away from the team bw 16/17. I know the show mostly follows real time, but it also often doesn't.

[dtissagirl]

Ooh, that makes sense, if they time-jump a month or so between 416 and 417. Then Felicity's off the team for a few weeks, but we don't have to watch it.

[looptab]

I really don't want her to leave, though. No matter whether we watch it or not, I don't like it.

What I like, is EBR's face after she says "marrying..". Perfect. And also the bun. I wish they would do it more often.

 

@tv echo, I thought she said "Makes sense to her" as in Cupid? Not "Makes sense to me".

[AyChihuahua]

I've been on board with Felicity taking a break from the team for eons now, bc I think that's a pretty human response. But I don't want to watch multiple episodes of her on any kind of island, even Curtis Island, any more than anyone else. So a mention in 17 that they haven't seen Felicity much lately bc she's been doing whatevs having a life totally works for me. She gets her human response and I don't have to watch a bunch of episodes of it.

 

I really feel like a fair number of viewers hold Felicity to a very unfairly high standard. She shouldn't have to be perfect while other characters get to screw up constantly. For example she's apparently going to snark at Oliver a little in this episode. GOOD. He lied to her and broke her heart. Yes, he's sad, but he caused it, so he can darn well suck it up and take a little snark.

Edited March 23, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[Morrigan2575]

I don't want her to take a break at all, even if it's in offscreenville.

[apinknightmare]

Oh my god, the "It's not like...I don't know what it's like" dialogue was the most convoluted way to get Felicity to outright tell Oliver that they're through. It took me way too long to figure out what in the hell they were talking about. Maybe if she hadn't walked out on him in the middle of their convo he would've gotten that message sooner.

[Password]

I really feel like a fair number of viewers hold Felicity to a very unfairly high standard. She shouldn't have to be perfect while other characters get to screw up constantly. For example she's apparently going to snark at Oliver a little in this episode. GOOD. He lied to her and broke her heart. Yes, he's sad, but he caused it, so he can darn well suck it up and take a little snark.

This is a fantastic post. I'm so here for Felicity snark because frankly, she's ME this episode. I want to throw shade at Oliver so seeing her do it will fulfill my need.

Also yes to Felicity taking time. She needs and deserves it. It would suck terribly for anyone to have to work with their were-going-to-be life partner everyday.

[dtissagirl]

This is a fantastic post. I'm so here for Felicity snark because frankly, she's ME this episode. I want to throw shade at Oliver so seeing her do it will fulfill my need.

 

Omg yes, me too. I sort of want her to go full wattage snippy, and I'll be cheering her on.

[Password]

I just know I'll be waiting impatiently through Laurel's trial while Felicity and Oliver and Cupid hold my attention.

This is why I want Laurel off the show. She takes time away from me that I want to spend with characters that interest me.

[Chaser]

I don't think Curtis in the lair is an indication of Felicity taking a break. It seems to happen in the same episode that Felicity is held hostage. I know that there was a shot of Echo filming in PT and Curtis in PT, but we don't know the timing on that. He could escape early on or he could be apart of the rescue for one reason or another.

[looptab]

Personally, it's not that I hold her to a higher standard, or that she's not allowed to screw up. I just wouldn't like her quitting, because  she has done that, ot try to do that before - as recently as 411. I don't want her to be labeled a quitter (and not even by haters, by me). However I do think she has a right to act as she sees fit in this circumstances, so we'll see.

As for the snark, I won't mind at all, quite the contrary. :) The thing that made me cringe was the comment about Cupid not being insane after all. 

Edited March 23, 2016 by looptab

[calliope1975]

Oh that clip hurt but in a good way. I don't have any alcohol! I guess I'll use sugar instead and eat my emotions. 

 

Her hair looked super cute, too. 

Edited March 23, 2016 by calliope1975

[BkWurm1]

This is a fantastic post. I'm so here for Felicity snark because frankly, she's ME this episode. I want to throw shade at Oliver so seeing her do it will fulfill my need.

Also yes to Felicity taking time. She needs and deserves it. It would suck terribly for anyone to have to work with their were-going-to-be life partner everyday.

I think she needs to take a break.  She absolutely has a right to feel the need to snip and snark but it is hard for the rest of the team probably (I'm thinking long term) and the only way she's going to get to a place where she doesn't feel so bruised is to give herself a chance to heal a little and that's nearly impossible if Oliver is there everyday to reopen the wounds.  So yeah, I think I want her to have the distance she needs for a little while. 

Edited March 23, 2016 by BkWurm1

[AyChihuahua]

Oh that clip hurt but in a good way. I don't have any alcohol! I guess I'll use sugar instead and eat my emotions. 

I'm actually planning to watch tonight, first time I've watched an episode since 4.7, and I'm DEFINITELY hitting the liquor store on the way home.

[tv echo]

@tv echo, I thought she said "Makes sense to her" as in Cupid? Not "Makes sense to me".

You're right.  I watched the video again.  Felicity does say "her" - but the unspoken meaning was that she was also referring to herself.

[looptab]

Oh my god, the "It's not like...I don't know what it's like" dialogue was the most convoluted way to get Felicity to outright tell Oliver that they're through. It took me way too long to figure out what in the hell they were talking about. Maybe if she hadn't walked out on him in the middle of their convo he would've gotten that message sooner.

I hadn't even realized that until you mentioned it. I interpreted that part completely differently. What was he even going to say then? "It's not like.." what?

[apinknightmare]

I hadn't even realized that until you mentioned it. I interpreted that part completely differently. What was he even going to say then? "It's not like.." what?

I thought that when she apologized for poor choice of words (by saying "married"), Oliver was kind of implying that maybe the choice of words wasn't so poor, because when Felicity gave him the ring back all she said was that she needed space, so that he wasn't clear on their relationship status (like, he was going to say, "It's not like we're not together" or something). And when he said, "Actually, I don't know what it's like" was an indicator that he wasn't sure where their relationship stood, so she spelled it out for him.

Could totally be wrong. I'm not sure what that dialogue was about, but that's what it seemed like to me? I mean, she was moving out, but maybe he thought that was part of her needing space, and that they were still going to try to work on things?

Edited March 23, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Chaser]

Just watched the clip. I agree with those that said it was a good type of angst.

That preview clip plus the producers preview actually made me want to see the episode. Color me shocked.

No mention of DD. That surprised me. I'm wondering how much of a role that actually plays in this episode. I'm thinking it may just marinate in the background until 4x18.

[Password]

I assume when Oliver says he can save the city but not his own relationship is in episode 17? It would make sense if Felicity takes a break from the team that he would moan about it after a while.

[bijoux]

I can't watch the video at work: is it now public info that Oliver has a baby mama and kid? That's a bummer, bc the ONE good thing out of all that was that at least Felicity wasn't publicly humiliated, as it didn't seem anyone, even the cops(?) knew the kid was Oliver's.

 

No, there was no indication of any of that being public knowledge. It might be revealed in the episode, but it wasn't in any of the sneak peeks or the preview.

 

Looking at the sneak peek of Oliver/Felicity post breakup in the loft, I thought it was a nice touch on EBR's acting that she was jabbing herself with her pen around the spot where Oliver was shot (first time he actually let her in on his secrets and let her know that he was the Arrow)...seems kinda poetically ironic I guess that they broke up because he didn't let her in.

 

Whoa. Did not even notice.

 

What I like, is EBR's face after she says "marrying..". Perfect. And also the bun. I wish they would do it more often.

 

The bun is super cute, I can't believe they haven't done it yet with Felicity either stressed or at home. They both look so pretty in that scene.

 

Personally, it's not that I hold her to a higher standard, or that she's not allowed to screw up. I just wouldn't like her quitting, because  she has done that, ot try to do that before - as recently as 411. I don't want her to be labeled a quitter (and not even by haters, by me). However I do think she has a right to act as she sees fit in this circumstances, so we'll see.

 

Any of my objections, if I had any, were based on the fact that Felicity loves being on the team. So if she's off it, it's another thing she loves that she loses in short succession.

[doesntworkonwood]

Honestly I predict I'll spend half the episode cheering on snarky Felicity, and the other half yelling 'It's your own fault Oliver' at my screen. I'm quite happy with what we've seen so far, it looks like it will be a pretty decently written episode at least (with the parts I care about anyway).

[ComicFan777]

Personally, it's not that I hold her to a higher standard, or that she's not allowed to screw up. I just wouldn't like her quitting, because  she has done that, ot try to do that before - as recently as 411. I don't want her to be labeled a quitter (and not even by haters, by me). However I do think she has a right to act as she sees fit in this circumstances, so we'll see.

As for the snark, I won't mind at all, quite the contrary. :) The thing that made me cringe was the comment about Cupid not being insane after all. 

 

I could never fault Felicity for wanting to take a break in any of the circumstances when she wanted to step away from the team.  In 4.11, she had just gotten out of the hospital after multiple surgeries and she didn't feel ready to come back.  I wouldn't call it quitting if she needed to take a break and heal.  Her mind is her superpower, if she is drugged up on pain killers for her body to heal, it is the responsible thing to step away from the team to not endanger them since she runs comms.  In 4.16, Felicity seems to be good with working with the team - I am guessing she may realize that it will not be as easy to pretend things are ok with Oliver after the fake wedding - it will probably push her to realize that she isn't as ok as she thought she was after everything.  A break is very different than quitting - she needs time to heal - it will definitely be better for the audience if the time-off is offscreen.  I am so looking forward to her snark.

 

[Password]

Any of my objections, if I had any, were based on the fact that Felicity loves being on the team. So if she's off it, it's another thing she loves that she loses in short succession.

To be fair it would be her decision though. Being in a wheelchair, having a crappy father come back into her life to be crappy, Oliver lying to her and proposing a life she wanted then having the rug pulled from underneath her were all outside her power. This actually grants her a little control. Besides she's not losing the team, she's taking a break from them.

It would be great if Oliver left but Felicity tends to put in action big gestures when she's had life upheavals.

[BkWurm1]

The trial is destined to be a bunch of hooky crap since this show is the worst I've ever seen at legal stuff, but if the rest of it is good, I'm good. 

Edited March 23, 2016 by BkWurm1

[bijoux]

If she does decide to take a break, I'll be fine with it, don't get me wrong. I don't care if some start viewing her as a quitter, because it's not what she'll look like to me. It's just that I don't need her to take a break.

[Angel12d]

It would be great if Oliver left but Felicity tends to put in action big gestures when she's had life upheavals.

 

Oliver wouldn't/couldn't leave. It's his show, he's the Green Arrow. LOL. That just wouldn't happen. I personally wouldn't want it to. But then, I don't want Felicity to leave either.

[Password]

I know he wouldn't leave but I can dream.

ETA: nevermind, Oliver has to learn to stick around, even if he asked Felicity if it would make her more comfortable to have him go.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Password

[Chaser]

AG loves that scenery. I wonder if the new writers were told to be as subtle as a bull in a china shop.

At one point it looks like the female victim got tired of pretending to cry. lol

[looptab]

Could totally be wrong. I'm not sure what that dialogue was about, but that's what it seemed like to me? I mean, she was moving out, but maybe he thought that was part of her needing space, and that they were still going to try to work on things?

Yeah, I think you are right. It certainly explains her spelling it out way better than my own interpretation, where I chalked that as usual awkward exposition.

[AyChihuahua]

No, there was no indication of any of that being public knowledge. It might be revealed in the episode, but it wasn't in any of the sneak peeks or the preview.

Thanks! So the trial is (SO STUPIDLY) about the spawn kidnapping, but without mentioning that the spawn was Oliver's kid? I'd think people would wonder why Oliver and fam would be attending it.  

 

Easy fix, MAKE THE TRIAL ABOUT DD's PUBLIC KIDNAPPING OF DIGG, THEA AND FELICITY, FFS!

[Belinea]

Maybe it is a stupid question but will the episode they are currently filming have not as much of SA? He seems to have a little bit of free time at the moment....

Edited March 23, 2016 by Belinea

[Password]

The writers still want the irrelevant child to be relevant so there we have it. Nevermind that Diggle, Thea and Felicity could testify to being gassed and nearly killed.

Maybe that's Laurel's secret weapon?

[kismet]

It's FS choice whether or not she takes a break from the team. TBH I have no strong feelings one way or the other, since there are valid points on both sides. Whatever she chooses, I just hope that it is well written so that is doesn't look like she's quitting again.

 

I do think that it was important for them to establish in script that FS will and has always had a place on the team regardless of their relationship status.

 

As for FS' snark, I have no problem with her being snarky. It does seem like an appropriate time. Bring it on, I just want it well written.

[AyChihuahua]

The writers still want the irrelevant child to be relevant so there we have it. Nevermind that Diggle, Thea and Felicity could testify to being gassed and nearly killed.

And once again the kid and his horrible lying hag of a mother are plot devices, not even important enough as characters to be in the episode.

 

Honestly, as an attorney, although not a criminal attorney, prosecuting him for kidnapping a kid who then completely disappeared, along with his mother, and to which the only witnesses are anonymous vigilantes, would NEVER EVER HAPPEN. The trial scenes are going to make me blow a gasket. So tonight, please forgive me for any drunken rage posting.

 

Actually, doesn't Digg testify at some point? Maybe they try him for both kidnappings. Still dumb, but slightly less dumb.

Edited March 23, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[looptab]

Any of my objections, if I had any, were based on the fact that Felicity loves being on the team. So if she's off it, it's another thing she loves that she loses in short succession.

Yeah, I meant to mention that too, and then I forgot, haha.

 

I could never fault Felicity for wanting to take a break in any of the circumstances when she wanted to step away from the team. 

I feel like I'm not explaining myself - I don't think I can on this, haha. I don't fault her either. I didn't when she didn't feel like coming back in 411, nor when she left in 310. I don't think I'd even fault her if she left now. It's just that it happens kinda often, and I wish they wouldn't do that, because it's starting to become a main trait of hers.

[apinknightmare]

The writers still want the irrelevant child to be relevant so there we have it. Nevermind that Diggle, Thea and Felicity could testify to being gassed and nearly killed.

Maybe that's Laurel's secret weapon?

Maybe they do? They aren't at the hearing for the kidnapping in the preview, and since it seems like it's going nowhere, maybe Laurel decides to bring in witnesses that can attest to being there and seeing what he did during the holiday party? And that's why the team is in the other courtroom scenes, but not this one. There was a BTS pic of DR on the stand, so...seems likely.

Why she wouldn't have done that first doesn't make any sense, but this show doesn't make sense half of the time, so whatever!

Edited March 23, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Password]

I don't know much about law but Felicity, Diggle and Thea testifying to seeing Darhk there whilst they were being gassed, and the numerous eye witnesses that saw Darhk kidnap the three of them should make that case a close and shut right?

[AyChihuahua]

In an actual criminal trial if DD wasn't charged with kidnapping Digg, et al., they couldn't testify to his prior, uncharged bad acts. Digg couldn't testify that while he knows nothing about DD kidnapping this rando kid from Central City (bc of course he's not supposed to know about it as DIGG, v as Spartan), DD did this other unrelated bad thing, so he probably did the charged bad thing, too. 

 

Guggie knows/should know this, regular L&O viewers should know this, but this show is THE WORST at legal stuff. I'm going to be optimistic that they just start with the spawn kidnapping charges and move on to the Digg/Thea/Felicity kidnapping/assault/attempted murder, etc., charges later.

[Chaser]

No but really, where is Felicity going to go? Diggle didn't know about the broken engagement so that shoots down my hope of her staying with the Diggle.

[apinknightmare]

I don't know much about law but Felicity, Diggle and Thea testifying to seeing Darhk there whilst they were being gassed, and the numerous eye witnesses that saw Darhk kidnap the three of them should make that case a close and shut right?

Her going after Darhk for the crime where the victim and his mother have disappeared, the father doesn't want to be publicly identified, and the only witnesses to it were masked vigilantes is *so* Laurel, though.

[AyChihuahua]

I don't know much about law but Felicity, Diggle and Thea testifying to seeing Darhk there whilst they were being gassed, and the numerous eye witnesses that saw Darhk kidnap the three of them should make that case a close and shut right?

YES. And they can actually TESTIFY, bc Felicity, Digg, and Thea were kidnapped, not Overwatch, Spartan, and Speedy. Plus numerous witnesses, and LBR cell phone video, of the kidnapping at the party. If Laurel only charged DD with kidnapping the spawn and not with kidnapping/trying to kill F/D/T, Laurel is THE WORST PROSECUTOR IN THE ENTIRE WORLD. 

[lemotomato]

FWIW, dialogue tease from SA's live Q&A: "Oh... that's incovenient."

[AyChihuahua]

No but really, where is Felicity going to go? Diggle didn't know about the broken engagement so that shoots down my hope of her staying with the Diggle.

My guess has always been an executive apartment at Palmer Tech.

[bijoux]

No but really, where is Felicity going to go? Diggle didn't know about the broken engagement so that shoots down my hope of her staying with the Diggle.

 

Maybe she bunks with Laurel. Seriously, as much as I would love Felicity and Dig having late night bonding sessions, she's got the means to go wherever she wants.

[ComicFan777]

...maybe she bought her old place...Felicity's super rich, she could stay in a hotel and then buy another loft across the street from Oliver if she wanted to.

 

Heck, she could buy the queen mansion, restore it, and live there...

Edited March 23, 2016 by ComicFan777

[doesntworkonwood]

FWIW, dialogue tease from SA's live Q&A: "Oh... that's incovenient."

Oliver forgets to cancel the venue maybe?

[bijoux]

Double post.

Edited March 23, 2016 by bijoux

[Morrigan2575]

Maybe it is a stupid question but will the episode they are currently filming have not as much of SA? He seems to have a little bit of free time at the moment....

From what I understand he filmed last night or had a late afternoon/evening call last night. It's possible he is off today to compensate for an overnight shoot.

[dtissagirl]

Heck, she could buy the queen mansion, restore it, and live there...

...And build a superhero cave underground AND BECOME BATMAN.