Spoiler Discussion Thread

[kismet]

Make-up is the only part that really works for me with this character. She's slave labor. She's supposed to look like crap.

Oh the make up is nicely applied to make her look like crap, I just thinks its adding to the she's too ugly for OQ comments. I was simply trying to not blame everything on the actress, least of all her looks. But I do wonder why she doesn't look better after some r&r in the cave. She really hasn't labored since the first or second episode.

[bijoux]

The part about her supposedly being more rested now is true. I have to admit I didn't even think about that. Maybe the make-up department isn't paying attention to her either.

Ballroom of the hotel where the wedding was filmed: https://twitter.com/olicitykisses/status/691981848071835648

Edited January 26, 2016 by bijoux

[calliope1975]

 

Weird double post. Nothing to see here.

Edited January 26, 2016 by calliope1975

[HighHopes]

What if the reason Oliver loses the Mayor election/is no longer running is because Felicity decides to stop funding it after all of his lies? 

 

 

(Please can this happen?) 

[apinknightmare]

What if the reason Oliver loses the Mayor election/is no longer running is because Felicity decides to stop funding it after all of his lies? 

 

 

(Please can this happen?) 

 

So that a woman who wants to kill everyone so they can repopulate the world can run unopposed? No thanks. Even the height of anger, I can't see her doing this - she lives in Star City too, it's in her best interest to have someone who cares about it running the place. 

Edited January 26, 2016 by apinknightmare

[HighHopes]

So that a woman who wants to kill everyone so they can repopulate the world can run unopposed? No thanks. 

 

Does Felicity know that though?  Honestly if I found out my fiance had been lying to me and keeping secrets while I was funding his campaign (and basically supporting him every other way financially) I may be angry enough to act first than think later. My guess is that the mayor thing will be over by 4x23 anyways so it doesn't even matter who wins. If DD's wife wins, DD will be defeated and so will his wife. If Oliver wins, DD will be defeated and so will his wife and then Oliver Star City Mayor will never be mentioned of again. 

[AyChihuahua]

I'm guessing he's either forced to drop out or he loses. I realize the timing of the election wouldn't match the timing in S2, but special elections for empty positions have totally different timing. I'm cool with it, bc I never thought the mayor thing would be a long-term storyline for him.

[apinknightmare]

Does Felicity know that though?  Honestly if I found out my fiance had been lying to me and keeping secrets while I was funding his campaign (and basically supporting him every other way financially) I may be angry enough to act first than think later. My guess is that the mayor thing will be over by 4x23 anyways so it doesn't even matter who wins. If DD's wife wins, DD will be defeated and so will his wife. If Oliver wins, DD will be defeated and so will his wife and then Oliver Star City Mayor will never be mentioned of again. 

 

Well, I suppose it all depends on how the kid secret comes out - if this woman is threatening Oliver with that secret, or is somehow connected to the kid's kidnapping, I would hope she wouldn't stop funding him so that someone who would do such a thing would win. Either way, *we* know she's evil, and outside of the story, I'd really not give people more ammunition to hate her. But that's just me. She should cut him off personally, but it seems uncharacteristically petty to stop funding his mayoral campaign when it's in the city's best interest (not to mention the team's) to have someone on their side in charge.

Edited January 26, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Morrigan2575]

Did we have an election with Moira or did Blood just got sworn in because Moira died and there was no opposition?  Just trying to figure out where the mayoral storyline might come to a resolution 

[apinknightmare]

Did we have an election with Moira or did Blood just got sworn in because Moira died and there was no opposition?  Just trying to figure out where the mayoral storyline might come to a resolution 

 

The election was still held IIRC.

[Guest]

I'm all for Felicity breaking up with Oliver because he needs to pay for the lie but let's not turn her into a petty spiteful ex. I would hate that so much. 

[hogwash]

I'm still hoping he wins. Oliver needs a job. 

[apinknightmare]

I'm still hoping he wins. Oliver needs a job. 

 

There would for sure be some logistical challenges, but I agree. He needs a job, and it would be interesting watching him juggle the two things. I miss him having to do that with QC.

[Morrigan2575]

The election was still held IIRC.

Thanks, couldn't remember, just remember the scene of Blood getting sworn in.

[AyChihuahua]

I'm still hoping he wins. Oliver needs a job. 

There are lots of other jobs. It's not really mayor or bust.

[lemotomato]

There are lots of other jobs. It's not really mayor or bust.

It kind of is? I mean, he's not really qualified for anything and he doesn't exactly have a resume. The only reason why he had a chance at becoming mayor was because no one else was running. And we all know lack of applicable experience and qualifications has never prevented a politician from winning.

Edited January 26, 2016 by lemotomato

[way2interested]

There are lots of other jobs. It's not really mayor or bust.

Partially agree with this. I don't like the idea of Oliver having to oversee the city pretty much 24/7. Being a mayor is a lot, and he wouldn't really have time to do it believably while being the Green Arrow. Although I do like him being a public figure actually being recognized for wanting to help the city, giving him a public identity as Oliver Queen along with him being the Green Arrow, and I can't immediately think of a job that could do that as well.

 

I would just like him to have a job and an actual identity of some sort though. Heck, I loved the jokes from last summer that suggested that Oliver become Felicity's EA since that would have just quickly solved the job problem as well as been hilarious.

[Velocity23]

I guess this is for LLs court appearance

https://twitter.com/okradeel/status/692050719248031744

[AyChihuahua]

It kind of is? I mean, he's not really qualified for anything and he doesn't exactly have a resume. The only reason why he had a chance at becoming mayor was because no one else was running. And we all know lack of applicable experience and qualifications has never prevented a politician from winning.

Okay, so your theory is that if he loses/withdraws, which based on spoilers, etc., seems fairly likely, he'll never be employed ever?

 

He could easily be a consultant or lobbyist or open another club or whatever. It really is not mayor or nothing.

[apinknightmare]

I'm sure he could do something else, I'm just a little confused as to why they'd make the mayoral campaign such a huge storyline, with no one challenging him but a villain's wife, if he's ultimately going to lose, throw his hands up, and then go do something else. 

 

I mean, they very well could do that, I just think that ultimately, somehow, he's gonna become mayor.

[Morrigan2575]

I'm sure he could do something else, I'm just a little confused as to why they'd make the mayoral campaign such a huge storyline, with no one challenging him but a villain's wife, if he's ultimately going to lose, throw his hands up, and then go do something else. 

 

I mean, they very well could do that, I just think that ultimately, somehow, he's gonna become mayor.

He quits/loses then Mrs Darhk revealed as bad guy, gets killed and Oliver ends up Mayor?  LOL

[nksarmi]

Ok I know a lot of people here think the lying about the kid and baby momma is enough to cause this break up, but am I the only who thinks if it's a hard - "we are done" - type of break up, that there needs to be something more to it?  Now, I know that Oliver is perfectly capable of making things so bad that Felicity would dump him over this.  But in a world where people actually talk and explain things - are Oliver's action really enough for Felicity to end things altogether?

 

I say this because she forgave him for the LoA stuff (which in so many ways is bigger than this) and she knows there is something he wasn't telling her at the end of the crossover.  I always thought her reaction in the cross-over was out of character AND that Barry got it wrong when he said it look like a break up.  We really don't know what would have happened if everyone hadn't died and time was reset.  It could be when they sat down to talk, Oliver told her he just found out and that the baby momma didn't want him to tell anyone and doesn't want him in the boy's life and maybe Felicity would have calmed down and they would have decided what to do together - as a couple.

 

So if Oliver or the mother bothers to explain it as - Oliver just found out a couple of months ago and hasn't seen the boy since because he's been focused on Felicity being hurt, stopping Darhk, and running for mayor then I don't see that as permanent break up material.  My problem is that I don't see how anyone finds out about the boy if Oliver is staying away from him (which he should be given the fact that Felicity is hurt).  And I don't see why the mother would just show up after she made it very, very clear she wanted no one to know.  So it seems like something stupid is going to happen here or they are going to make Oliver a dirtbag for sneaking off to see the boy when he has bigger fish to fry.

 

Then there are these MM spoilers and if the "him" really is MM (and Felicity hates him so I can totally believe it is).  So if something is going down with Nyssa and the LOA and Oliver and Malcolm - that makes me wonder if the breakup is more about Oliver doing something with Malcolm that Felicity really doesn't approve of than about the baby momma lie.  I mean that would be both overdue and totally in character for her.

 

I mean given the spoilers for the episodes between now and when you guys think the break up is going to happen - it seems like there is plenty of time for Oliver to do something really stupid with Malcolm and get screwed over by it again.  That seems like the kind of thing that would be the final straw for Felicity.  Then I'm guessing between the break up and the flash forward, it could be anyone in the grave (save Thea of course) and Felicity would be furious because of Malcolm.  And Oliver might say it isn't his fault, but Felicity seems to think it is with the way she said, "you know you have to kill the son of a bitch" which makes perfect sense if it's someone Oliver has failed to kill numerous times and even protected when others tried to do the deed.

[AyChihuahua]

I'm sure he could do something else, I'm just a little confused as to why they'd make the mayoral campaign such a huge storyline, with no one challenging him but a villain's wife, if he's ultimately going to lose, throw his hands up, and then go do something else. 

 

I mean, they very well could do that, I just think that ultimately, somehow, he's gonna become mayor.

The show has done weirder things. The writers seem to have short attention spans.

 

If they want him to be mayor, they can write him becoming mayor, regardless of what happens at the debate or if he quits or loses. Throw in a line about the governor appointing him or whatever. None of their political/legal storylines have made a lick of sense, anyway. As you've pointed out, Moira was winning, which, of course, is batshit crazy.

[tangerine95]

It never made much sense to me that Oliver will actually be mayor in future seasons.I don't really see it as a job that would work with being the GA.I mean it would be pretty weird that when there's a crisis in the city the mayor should be there like giving press conferences and all that but Oliver is busy being GA.Maybe they gloss over that though.I think maybe he wins but then once the city is safe from DD and no one is trying to kill the mayor he will resign and let Moira's friend from 4.02 be the mayor.But he does need a day job tbh.

[AyChihuahua]

I think Walter should be mayor. He'd be such a great mayor, and then we could actually see him occasionally. 

Edited January 26, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[Ann Mack]

The ballroom setting and the aisle leading up to the altar area for the wedding is beautiful though!! That is all. Courtesy of: 

(NO)ra
‏@olicitykisse

 

 

Edited January 26, 2016 by Ann Mack

[HighHopes]

I believe those photos are from the hotel's website (The Georgia Hotel in Vancouver) and not the actual set-up for the wedding that is being filmed. Either way it is pretty beautiful. 

[statsgirl]

Is that the pr shots for the hotel?  It seems like a huge expense for the show to go through to waste it on a non-sweeps episode.

 

I think they did the "Oliver runs for mayor" because it was something for Oliver to do this season. And I have to say, I like it much better than the Ra's al Ghul storyline.

 

I don't know if they would want to waste the "him" on MM this season rather than have it DD and save MM for the Big Bad of season 5.

 

 

I've been expecting this season to end with Felicity going somewhere since before the season started.  Oliver's left, Thea's left, Diggle's commitment to the team was in doubt while both Oliver and Felicity left.  Someone is going to take off but maybe the twist will be that it's not voluntary.  (Just to be clear, she'd be back for season 5)

I hate the idea that Oliver and Felicity are still apart over the summer but since you 100% called the bookends of season 3, I can't dismiss it.  So I'm preparing myself for the worst.

 

It's also a nice twist on the "gone for 5 months" they do each summer, this time making it Felicity and not Oliver.

 

I'm not looking forward to the comments though.  Felicity is still thought to be a traitor and unworthy because she left for half an episode when they all thought Oliver had died, I hate to think of the reaction if she actually left town.

 

ETA:  thanks for the clarification, HighHopes.

Edited January 26, 2016 by statsgirl

[Ann Mack]

I think Walter should be mayor. He'd be such a great mayor, and then we could actually see him occasionally. 

I would love the return of Walter. He had such a presence and the accent didn't hurt either!

I believe those photos are from the hotel's website (The Georgia Hotel in Vancouver) and not the actual set-up for the wedding that is being filmed. Either way it is pretty beautiful. 

Yes she stated that she googled these from the website of the Hotel but I'm just stating that the set-up is beautiful.

[NumberCruncher]

I hate the idea that Oliver and Felicity are still apart over the summer but since you 100% called the bookends of season 3, I can't dismiss it.  So I'm preparing myself for the worst.

Given the choice I would rather they keep O/F broken up over summer hiatus than the usual alternative. If I have to watch them slog through the back half of yet another season of major relationship angst only to reconcile them the last 5 minutes of the season finale I'm going to be pissed. Let Oliver spend some time being truly repentant for his lie and give Felicity some time to reflect and then choose for herself whether to trust him again. They can slowly start working their way back to each other in S5. I swear 90% of the problem is that they immediately shoved them together in 3x01 instead of letting the slow burn play out and we've had to endure the utter relationship stupidity of S3 and now S4 in order to give them a story.

[tangerine95]

Tbh I don't think they would have Felicity leave this season or have them still be broken up at the end of the season.They might do something like that at some point but the fact that they're breaking up in 4.15 makes me think they're following the usual pattern of angst in the middle of the season and resolution at the end.If they did the break up in like episode 4.20 I would think a hiatus apart would be likely.

[Morrigan2575]

I'd much prefer Olicity being broken up at the end of S4 then a last minute reconciliation like S3 (I freaking hated that reunion and hated that Felicity left with him).  However, I don't know if I believe Felicity is the one to leave at the end of S4, need more information than what we've gotten so far.

[tangerine95]

I wouldn't want them to stay broken up during the hiatus,at least at this point.Maybe Oliver screws up some more and worse and I change my mind but I think from 4.15 to 4.23 is enough time to resolve their issues.I do wish they don't leave it for the last moment.They can get back together in the finale but I hope there's more build up and resolution to it than in season 3.

[statsgirl]

The problem is that the writers don't like writing them happy, they like writing the angst. That's why traditionally the summer has been the good times for the team.

 

Don't they usually have the last two or three episodes take place within the space of a day?  They need time after the graveside scene for Oliver to kill "him" so it's got to be 4x21 or 4x22, making the death in 4x20 or 4x21. The break-up has to happen before that since they're broken up in the limo.  Broken Dreams seems likely. Broken for both Felicity, who realizes Oliver isn't honest with her as she thinks he is, and for Oliver when she gives him back the ring.

 

It kind of is? I mean, he's not really qualified for anything and he doesn't exactly have a resume. The only reason why he had a chance at becoming mayor was because no one else was running. And we all know lack of applicable experience and qualifications has never prevented a politician from winning.

 

This reminds me of one of the best responses ever.  On the The West Wing thread of the old TWoP board, someone was complaining that since Donna hadn't graduated from college, there was no way someone unqualified would ever be given the administrative job she had.  A poster replied "you mean she'd be stuck in some shit job like Karl Rove?"

 

Edited to correct the bizarre double posting.

Edited January 26, 2016 by statsgirl

[AyChihuahua]

I'm not looking forward to the comments though.  Felicity is still thought to be a traitor and unworthy because she left for half an episode when they all thought Oliver had died, I hate to think of the reaction if she actually left town.

Easy fix: she's forced to leave.

[kismet]

Tbh if FS breaks up with him solely for the lie in 408, I think that is ridiculous and OOC. Everyone close to OQ knows he withholds secrets and compartmentalizes. No one is immune from that treatment regardless of an engagement or not. He should maturing and doing it less. But it is who he is, it comes with the package and FS knew that when she said yes. OQ is a work in progress.

I predict that he is going to do something else to mess up. It might & mosy likely will involve BM. It will probably be another lie. But something else is going to happen in additition to the events of 408 that will cause the break.

[Chaser]

I'm confused. Is there a spoiler that indicates Felicity leaves?

[AyChihuahua]

I'm confused. Is there a spoiler that indicates Felicity leaves?

No, just speculation.

[dtissagirl]

I dunno. Maybe there's more, but especially after what Steve said this weekend -- I think the lie was constructed the way it was for one single reason: the break up. If there's no break up because of the lie, what's even the point of the lie?

[tarotx]

Well I guess they could always have felicity running off with her dad after her mom is killed (in a way like what happened with Thea after Moira died) and laurel and Oliver get friendly over the summer (the way Olicity got friendly in that Hiatus).

 

I hate unpleasant endings. I like closure heading into the summer. I'm not sure what I want but Felicity running is just the same as Oliver (for his development. Felicity isn't a runner neither and that would be Oliver washing off on her a little much for my liking. Oliver needs to be present in the drama and a part of the team in the emotional lows. He has never had to be present. If the the writers want to be true to Oliver rebuilding that is what needs to happen.

 

As for why Felicity would break-breaks up with Oliver? I think we already have it. Oliver runs and is never present in the emotional "worse"  moments. He's still Ollie in that way. He doesn't think well under personal emotional stress. He doesn't talk with his partners. He makes decisions that affect them but don't include them in the process. Even last season he made the decision to leave Starling with Felicity. He didn't talk it over with her or the team. Then we have him not being there in 4.10. Felicity understood but I think she will come to realize that while she understands Oliver, he doesn't understand her.

Edited January 26, 2016 by tarotx

[NumberCruncher]

Tbh if FS breaks up with him solely for the lie in 408, I think that is ridiculous and OOC. Everyone close to OQ knows he withholds secrets and compartmentalizes. No one is immune from that treatment regardless of an engagement or not. He should maturing and doing it less. But it is who he is, it comes with the package and FS knew that when she said yes. OQ is a work in progress.

Really? Because I would think it's completely rational and would be 100% in character for someone like Felicity. If I were in her shoes and my fiance withheld the fact that he was willing to marry me without telling me I'd be an instant stepmom I'd be beyond livid. IMO, that's not even remotely like Oliver withholding the fact that he's working with Malcolm to save the city. Oliver lying about the existence of a kid directly impacts Felicity and her relationship with him. I'd be disappointed if she isn't hard on him about such a thing.

[apinknightmare]

I dunno. Maybe there's more, but especially after what Steve said this weekend -- I think the lie was constructed the way it was for one single reason: the break up. If there's no break up because of the lie, what's even the point of the lie?

Yep. If it was important that he lie, then the lie is the reason for the breakup.

I would give anything to be a writer on this show. Ugh. To me a more in character split reason is because Oliver has a kid out there that he's NOT being a father to. That would cut Felicity deeply, and there's no need for some dumb ass lie.

Edited January 26, 2016 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

I understand why people want more than the stupid lie. Because the lie is stupid, and a weakass plot device if we ever had one. But neither the narrative nor the writers think the lie is stupid, so I have to abide to their internal logic, regardless of it being INSANE TROLL LOGIC.

[AyChihuahua]

Really? Because I would think it's completely rational and would be 100% in character for someone like Felicity. If I were in her shoes and my fiance withheld the fact that he was willing to marry me without telling me I'd be an instant stepmom I'd be beyond livid. IMO, that's not even remotely like Oliver withholding the fact that he's working with Malcolm to save the city. Oliver lying about the existence of a kid directly impacts Felicity and her relationship with him. I'd be disappointed if she isn't hard on him about such a thing.

Also, all this lying and running when things get tough would have a cumulative effect, and also also, they weren't together during the LOA lies. I mean, I HATE the LOA lies, but they were clearly not in a relationship and they were not engaged. I don't know if I just take being engaged/being married more seriously than others, but it's a big deal. So is being a step-parent to a young child. 

[tangerine95]

I don't think there will be a reason beyond the lie.They did that imo so they can have something that stalls Olicity but isn't that hard to resolve at the end of the season.I don't think its an overreaction that she breaks up with him.It was in 4.08,and tbh I don't think she did break up with him,imo she just did her usual I need some air thing.But after he lied for months,proposed while lying and if she finds out in a bad way which is most likely,I don't think its overreacting that she breaks up with him.But I do think it would be hard to sell as in character that like Felicity is gone during the hiatus because of it or doesn't want to be on the team.I don't see that happening.

Edited January 26, 2016 by tangerine95

[way2interested]

I would give anything to be a writer on this show. Ugh. To me a more in character split reason is because Oliver has a kid out there that he's NOT being a father to. That would cut Felicity deeply, and there's no need for some dumb ass lie.

For the longest time I thought that that was what they were going to do. Oliver would push himself away because of Arrow reasons as well as being aware that he is not emotionally prepared to be a father, Felicity would push back at him. They would have to air out the issues they have through this one event, and they would have some of the important pre-marriage conversations (do we want kids? are we emotionally ready to commit to this kind of relationship? How do we deal with big events in our lives together as a couple?). Then they would either sink or swim relationship-wise.

 

I wonder now if Felicity's daddy issues are even going to play into this whole probable argument that will come with the outted secret. Probably not, but I would kind of like to see something from her hopeful confrontation with her father in 413 to carry over.  

[tangerine95]

Honestly I would have hated any storyline with the kid.I just don't think this show needs dad Oliver and I do think its dangerous for Oliver to be in his life.Its different with Felicity since she's fully aware of the danger and accepts it.MB and the kid would always be clueless about it but they would still be in danger.I just don't think Oliver needs to be in this kid's life.

My ideal storyline would have been finding out the kid isn't Oliver's after all but all that still leading to olicity talking about kids in the future and Felicity's dad,how Moira lying about this affects Oliver now etc.But after that I have no need to see this kid or Oliver being his father.

The lie is one of the worse ways they could have dealt with it though.

[statsgirl]

I agree, there is no reason to have the kid on this show and he would just drag Oliver and Team Green Arrow down..  So how are they going to get rid of him?

No... Apparently people think she's going to act out of character and leave the 1 thing in her life that gives her purpose, that and her job as CEO, which is a position she cares about. 

Guggie writes for plot.  He's got an endpoint and then they figure out how to get there.  I can see him thinking it's a great idea to have Felicity be the one to be away this summer and leave the fighting masks in Star City and then the writers are going to try to come up with a decent reason for it.  Maybe it's for treatment for her paralysis and there's not enough time for Guggie to put them together by the end of the season. Or maybe

 

To me a more in character split reason is because Oliver has a kid out there that he's NOT being a father to. That would cut Felicity deeply, and there's no need for some dumb ass lie.

although I think Oliver would try if he could... unless he's too afraid it would bring harm to William or they're off in witness protection.

 

Really? Because I would think it's completely rational and would be 100% in character for someone like Felicity. If I were in her shoes and my fiance withheld the fact that he was willing to marry me without telling me I'd be an instant stepmom I'd be beyond livid.

I agree, if she were becoming a stepmom. But she's not except in the technical sense.  Oliver is barely allowed any contact with William, it doesn't look like he will be any responsibility of Felicity's, especially if Samantha has anything to say about it.

[Chaser]

This is going to sound weird.

 

GothFelicity sounds more like EBR than Felicity does. Tone wise.

[Morrigan2575]

Going back to the wedding spoilers for a second. I just had an awful thought. Could it possibly be a political thing? Oliver starts going down in the polls after secret son comes out and Alex suggests a public wedding to help Oliver win? Yeah Felicity totally broke up with him in 415 but to help fight the very bad Darhk's she agrees to a political marriage?