Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Genki]

I think the problem, for me, is once again the Hack writing job. It by handling the BM and William the way they did in 4.08 they are telling me that they are going to go with cheap writing tactics to create DRAMA.

 

I think I can get past the Oliver proposing to Felicity and not telling her about William, if certain things are indicated. For example, because BM hit OQ hard with the your life is shit, people die, you were an irresponsible douche, things Oliver finds hard to defend, he could be trying to demonstrate to BM that he is changed, including I'm in a committed long-term relationship. We know Felicity is the world to Oliver, but "Girlfriend" compared to "Fiancé" is a weak term in these circumstances. I'm not saying Oliver is proposing to show BM he is responsible, but I think he has taken the "you can never be his father, because...." and he will be trying to sub-consciously prove BM wrong. I think he has accepted that he cannot be in William's life now because of Vigilante life-style/DD so I don't think he really has plans on visiting anytime soon. 

 

I do think it will come out and be used as a comparison to Felicity's Father abandoning her and I think the Fall-out may be different this time round because it will be about Oliver knowing he a kid and not trying to be a part of his life. Calculator telling Felicity that your mad at me but you Fiancé is just like me too....she is defending him and then boom Oliver is proven to be a dead-beat-dad in her eyes. 

 

Cue upcoming Episode will be "William" in danger and Felicity meeting him for the 1st time in perilous circumstances, and Oliver opening up to her about stuff and start of reconciliation. 

 

If the writers didn't have such obvious patterns, this whole thing wouldn't feel like such a chore to get through as a viewer. Also we know the show is at it's best when they have Oliver/Felicity as a team and it worst when trying to force them to be apart. 

[Kordi]

By the way, are there any ideas why the kid is called "William"? I read some speculation that this refers to "William Tell", a famous folk hero from Switzerland:

 

"William Tell was known as a strong man, a mountain climber, and AN EXPERT SHOT WITH THE CROSSBOW. In his time [14th century], the Habsburg emperors of Austria were seeking to dominate Uri and Tell became one of the conspirators of Werner Stauffacher vowing to resist Habsburg rule. Gessler, the newly appointed Austrian Vogt of Altdorf, raised a pole under the village lindentree, hung his hat on top of it, and demanded that all the townsfolk bow before the hat.

On 18 November 1307, Tell visited Altdorf with his young son and passed by the hat, publicly refusing to bow to it, and so was arrested. Gessler—intrigued by Tell's famed marksmanship yet resentful of his defiance—devised a cruel punishment: Tell and his son would be executed, but he could redeem his life by shooting an apple off the head of his son, Walter, in a single attempt. Tell split the apple with a bolt from his crossbow".

But Gessler noticed that Tell had removed two crossbow bolts from his quiver, not one. Before releasing him, he asked why. Tell was reluctant to reply, but after Gessler promised he would not attempt to kill him, he replied that if he had killed his son, he would have used the second bolt on Gessler himself. Gessler was angered and had Tell bound, saying that while he had promised to spare his life, he would imprison Tell for the remainder of the life he had been granted.

Tell was brought to Gessler's boat to be taken to the dungeon in his castle at Küssnacht. But, as a storm broke on Lake Lucerne, the soldiers were afraid that their boat would founder, and they begged Gessler to allow them to remove Tell's shackles so he could steer the boat and save them. Gessler agreed, and Tell used the opportunity to escape, leaping from the boat at the rocky site now (and already in the White Book) known as the Tellsplatte ("Tell's slab"), since the 16th century the site of a memorial chapel.

Tell ran cross-country to Küssnacht. As Gessler arrived, Tell assassinated him with the second crossbow bolt along a stretch of the road cut through the rock between Immensee and Küssnacht, now known as the Hohle Gasse.[1] Tell's blow for liberty sparked a rebellion in which he played a leading part, leading to the formation of the Swiss Confederation" (from Wikipedia).

 

Do you think the legend of William Tell might come into play in S4? Like DD kidnapping William and Oliver having to rescue him by a Tell-like shot with his bow or something? To make it clear: I don´t want this kind of plot, but would you put it beyond the writers to produce a rip off from such a legend? (At least it wouldn´t be Nolan this time :-P).

[Carrie Ann]

(From the Media thread)

I honestly think/hope they're scrambling in the writers room to fix their fuck up and be more careful in terms of their relationship (I think they're writing episode 15/16 now?)

 

I think so too, but in a broader sense. Unfortunately, I think they've written themselves into a grim, angst-soaked corner for 409-415ish. Whatever happens to Felicity, her dad showing up, finding out about the kid, breakup, etc. There's just...no way those episodes aren't going to be full of depressing, stressful crap. And last season, 316 was when we had an abrupt change in tone, and change in the dynamic with O/F. Suddenly they were friends again! Suddenly they were both smiling, touching each other. It's pretty obvious the writers had received the message at that point that people were NOT happy with the direction things were going.

 

This season, it's like the reverse situation. I don't think they're scrambling just because of 408, but because of how well-received 401-407 have been. There seems to be a pretty clear critical and fan consensus that this season is way better on almost all fronts. So I think maybe they underestimated how strong that reaction would be, or how successful all this more mature and happy Oliver/Team Arrow/Olicity would be.

 

Also pursuant to the convo in the Media thread: I don't care what any of them say, love and hate is not the same to them. They may prefer them to apathy, but that doesn't mean they don't care about the balance. SA admitted that he has an ego, like all actors, and writers are sensitive babies, too. :) They certainly want people to love the things they make. And I'm sure the network wants people to love things. So if they're scrambling to fix things now, I'd say it's to rescue the show (and to a lesser extent, the ship) from reverting to the doom and gloom of S3, before they lose all good will. We'll see if they're successful.

 

So as I said in the Ep thread (I think?), I imagine 415-7 is about where there will be a thaw between O/F. Not a rekindling, not a reconciliation. But something that says, "We can be friends again, we can smile at each other, we're all going to be okay here."

Edited December 9, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[bijoux]

By the way, are there any ideas why the kid is called "William"? 

 

I had a brain fart for a second and wanked about him actually being Slade's kid. Billy Wintergreen was his godfather so I thought he was named after him. And that way he and his mother could have a purpose beyond ruining Oliver's love life. Alas, Wiki tells me that Slade's kid is named Joe. 

[catrox14]

Here's a thought. For those that think Oliver is too unemotional about Felicity's panic in the cell...

 

I took his face at either him trying to calm her, so she doesn't breathe in more of whatever is in there....or he's trying to calm her because maybe this is gassing thing is a fake out and part of a plan that he hatched with Malcolm like the fake out in Nanda Parbat?

 

Am I way off base on that one?

[apinknightmare]

Here's a thought. For those that think Oliver is too unemotional about Felicity's panic in the cell...

 

I took his face at either him trying to calm her, so she doesn't breathe in more of whatever is in there....or he's trying to calm her because maybe this is gassing thing is a fake out and part of a plan that he hatched with Malcolm like the fake out in Nanda Parbat?

 

Am I way off base on that one?

 

I think he's probably trying to calm her, and is going to say something like, "Hey, I'm going to get you out." If she panics with low oxygen, that's bad. I think he probably goes in there with a plan, and that Laurel, Malcolm and maybe Curtis are also in there working on a way of getting the cell open. I also hope that Diggle got Andy to work with HIVE as a double agent, and let him out of that cage and sent him back inside and that he'll have a hand in it, too. 

[dtissagirl]

I think the gas is likely real, but Buckles and her Bark Collar [hee!] are coming to the rescue anytime now, so if Felicity could stop hyperventilating gas, that would be neat.

[bijoux]

I don't think he's unemotional at all. The eyes are killing me.

[dtissagirl]

OH, and I saw a reference on Twitter, and, well. ~*IN THE COMICS*~:

 

 

From Final Crisis #4: http://www.dccomics.com/comics/final-crisis-2008/final-crisis-4

Edited December 4, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Morrigan2575]

Why, why, why do fanboys want SA to done that ridiculous facial hair

[catrox14]

Why, why, why do fanboys want SA to done that ridiculous facial hair

 

It's so dumb

[apinknightmare]

LMAO, her kissing the glass, his face while she's doing it.

[AyChihuahua]

LMAO, her kissing the glass, his face while she's doing it.

Please no one kiss the glass in 4.09. 

[Genki]

WTF Anti-Anti life Arrow???

[looptab]

That last one actually scared me.

Yes to no kissing the glass. Never.

[dtissagirl]

WTF Anti-Anti life Arrow???

Hahaha, comics. There's an "anti-life equation" in DC lore. It's exactly as dumb as it sounds:

http://www.comicvine.com/anti-life-equation/4015-42524/

[Starfish35]

Why is he making that horrible face in the last panel?

[Morrigan2575]

WTF Anti-Anti life Arrow???

  

Hahaha, comics. There's an "anti-life equation" in DC lore. It's exactly as dumb as it sounds:http://www.comicvine.com/anti-life-equation/4015-42524/

Darkseid in da house.

[dtissagirl]

Darkseid in da house.

Poor misunderstood Darkseid, all he wants is to eliminate free will and turn every single being in the universe into mindless obedient slaves, what's wrong with that?

Actually, I think there's some Darkseid-inspired qualities to DD on Arrow. The thing about destroying everything to create something new, for example. Except DD has a great sense of humor, and an awesome taste in suits. Darkseid has no sense of humor, and his fashion sense is high knee boots and a leotard with a hoodie, so.

But anyway, I hope 409 reveals at least some of DD's plans, especially since it looks like some of the HIVE partners are in town.

[kismet]

Oliver better stay the fuck away from Central City and that kid after whatever happens in the midseason. If I was the BM (so perfect) and he tried to see my son after that shit went down, I would gut him like a fish.  

 

Anyway, I think breakup 3.0(?) will be the opposite of the timeline 1's contrived-as-fuck breakup. I hope Oliver tells her and they talk about it even if it ends with them breaking up. They better avoid any implications that it's "Felicity vs the kid" thing. It needs to be about the incessant lying. Like the spat in 406 bringing up other issues.

It's so funny because in my line of work BM stands for bowel movement. So it's perfect in so many ways... Because BM & this plotline is shitting all over my story. And I'm mad.

 

The funniest thing is I've watch(ed) shows with tons of lying for lying sake... but there is something about this lie that just gets under my skin. Maybe because it's predictable. Maybe because it follows a pattern. Maybe its because they suck at writing lies & secrets. They honestly haven't been good at it since s1. So what is the point of ruining a perfectly functioning element of your show for drama... When you have proven that you do not write drama & it's fallout well. They keep on thinking they are these amazing soap operatic drama writers with all their secrets, lies & game-changing twists but at baseline they barely get a passing grade on that element. And it certainly always falls shorts when the try to add it to a romance. I really wish I could avoid having to put up with their learning curve.

[kismet]

They've drawn comparisons to Oliver and Papa Smoak before (2x13 and 4x06). What are the chances Papa Smoak has a secret family too?

I've actually always liked the idea of Papa Smoak having a secret family. It sorta makes sense as to one of the reasons he might have stayed away. Plus I've always enjoyed the thought of FS having secret siblings.

 

I do not like the parallels drawn betwen OQ & Papa Smoak. But whatever.... at this point I'm still trying to figure out why they chose to write BM storyline this way. When they had so many better ways to write it. Still bitter.

[catrox14]

Is it possible that Baby Mama and Felicity are half-sisters via Papa Smoak? I thought her response to "Felicity" was odd. Maybe she has massive resentment towards Felicity and is more interested in fucking with Oliver's life with Felicity than keeping  her son safe?

[kismet]

I think so too, but in a broader sense. Unfortunately, I think they've written themselves into a grim, angst-soaked corner for 409-415ish. Whatever happens to Felicity, her dad showing up, finding out about the kid, breakup, etc. There's just...no way those episodes aren't going to be full of depressing, stressful crap. And last season, 316 was when we had an abrupt change in tone, and change in the dynamic with O/F. Suddenly they were friends again! Suddenly they were both smiling, touching each other. It's pretty obvious the writers had received the message at that point that people were NOT happy with the direction things were going.

 

This season, it's like the reverse situation. I don't think they're scrambling just because of 408, but because of how well-received 401-407 have been. There seems to be a pretty clear critical and fan consensus that this season is way better on almost all fronts. So I think maybe they underestimated how strong that reaction would be, or how successful all this more mature and happy Oliver/Team Arrow/Olicity would be.

 

Also pursuant to the convo in the Media thread: I don't care what any of them say, love and hate is not the same to them. They may prefer them to apathy, but that doesn't mean they don't care about the balance. SA admitted that he has an ego, like all actors, and writers are sensitive babies, too. :) They certainly want people to love the things they make. And I'm sure the network wants people to love things. So if they're scrambling to fix things now, I'd say it's to rescue the show (and to a lesser extent, the ship) from reverting to the doom and gloom of S3, before they lose all good will. We'll see if they're successful.

 

So as I said in the Ep thread (I think?), I imagine 315-7 is about where there will be a thaw between O/F. Not a rekindling, not a reconciliation. But something that says, "We can be friends again, we can smile at each other, we're all going to be okay here."

I know its probably been written before somewhere.... But as of right now where are we in terms of writing and prepping episodes? Is it possible for the writers to change the course with O/F & the lying? How much can they fix? Could they possibly try to fix it before it goes too far?

 

As pissed as I am I can actually see them being able to write themselves out of this corner. It was lying but there were conditions on it. So perhaps FS will be understanding. I still think it will result in a definite cool off period. But it's not a lie to hold against him until the end of time... it also is not unforgivable unless he manages to screw up more and pile too many lies on top of the existing lie. And I realize he will most likely do this, since this is the show's pattern. Let's not forget FS has kept secrets & lies from OQ in past. She also seemed rather forgiving to RP with his lies. And I am prepared for the drama to some extent, but I am hoping that perhaps they can real time retro fit the existing scripts that have not been shot. Unlike s3, they know that the angst did not go over well. And certainly fan response does mean something. I wonder if going radio silent with the eps is the best thing to do. They want apathy, I can give it to them.

[statsgirl]

They're shooting 4x13 now, I believe, so they would be planning 4x14 and breaking 4x15.

 

I think it's a lie she could forgive, maybe, IF HE WEREN'T STILL LYING WHEN HE PROPOSED and she accepted.

 

I thought Felicity was too forgiving of Ray's lies.  But her lies to Oliver -- that she was helping Team Arrow do the job he had recruited them to do when he bailed?  That's not even in the same ballpark.

Edited December 5, 2015 by statsgirl

[AyChihuahua]

Ray lied about doing stuff to save the city.  Felicity lied about doing stuff to save the city.  Oliver is lying about THE EXISTENCE OF HIS SECRET CHILD.  And he's going to propose, which would make her the child's stepmother, WITHOUT INFORMING HER OF THE CHILD'S EXISTENCE.

 

It's completely hideous, and LBR, there ain't no chance she doesn't dump him.  

[Morrigan2575]

They're filming 413 now, which looks like it'll be the last episode they film this year. Last year they completed 314 on 12/19 but I don't see them having the time to do 314 since 313 just started filming.

They should come back 1/6 (around there) with 314. As of last year, 315 was written before the break and prepped while they were filming 314.

My guess would be that they're an episode behind this year. 314 is being prepped now and will film on 1/6, 315 will most likely be written over Christmas.

I would think the earliest they could course correct (if they decided to change) would be 316?

[quarks]

They can still course correct 415, and possibly do some pickup scenes for 414 - according to the season 3 Blu-ray, a couple of the scenes in 309 were filmed while Arrow was filming 310. 

 

The larger question is whether or not Arrow thinks it's financially worth it. Last season, Arrow decided that it was financially worth it to add a couple of last minute pickup shots to 309, but not to correct the 316 scene where poor Roy was left twitching in a puddle. And as we just saw, Arrow decided not to reshoot, or even clean up, the scene with the escaping donkey.

[Morrigan2575]

But the Donkey was the best part of that scene! LOL

[kismet]

Is it possible that Baby Mama and Felicity are half-sisters via Papa Smoak? I thought her response to "Felicity" was odd. Maybe she has massive resentment towards Felicity and is more interested in fucking with Oliver's life with Felicity than keeping  her son safe?

I want secret siblings.... but I do not want that type of secret family. I do wonder if her & FS will have crossed paths at some point in the past. Because how can these writers not pass on that opportunity. But I do not want FS potential secret family to be anyone close to BM. The world is not that small - even by TV standards.

[quarks]

But the Donkey was the best part of that scene! LOL

 

And see, that's the exact argument for cleaning it up. You don't want people saying that your actors were outacted by a bored donkey making his escape.

[AyChihuahua]

Ha, I love that they're currently filming the probable top contender for the Big Dump, and SA isn't chatting on FB.  Getting dumped, even fake-dumped, isn't fun.

Edited December 5, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[apinknightmare]

Ha, I love that they're currently filming the probable top contender for the Big Dump, and SA isn't chatting on FB.  Getting dumped, even fake-dumped, isn't fun.

 

Technically he's chatting on Facebook - liking posts and commenting on them. He just isn't posting his own stuff for...who knows why, haha.

[Ann Mack]

http://www.seventeen.com/celebrity/movies-tv/news/a36285/arrow-writer-blasts-oliver-felicty-shippers-over-their-reaction-to-controversial-storyline/

[lexicon]

Is it possible that Baby Mama and Felicity are half-sisters via Papa Smoak? I thought her response to "Felicity" was odd. Maybe she has massive resentment towards Felicity and is more interested in fucking with Oliver's life with Felicity than keeping  her son safe?

 

So once again Oliver would've been banging sisters? Yikes, and I thought all I had to worry about on that front was Felicity becoming an honorary daughter of Quentin's because of his thing with Donna. No thank you. 

[catrox14]

So once again Oliver would've been banging sisters? Yikes, and I thought all I had to worry about on that front was Felicity becoming an honorary daughter of Quentin's because of his thing with Donna. No thank you. 

 

At least this time Oliver wouldn't have known about that relationship. I wouldn't put it past the writers though!

[EmilyBettFan]

Oh. So, pulling a Zoolander (same expression/stance/approach in almost everything ever) is better acting than one that ends up making someone look less than attractive to show actual desperation/fear/emotions? Coolio.

I, on the other hand, actually prefer actors to act and not just look like they're trying to act. YMMV, though. :)

I'm thinking that post was meant for me considering I said I don't like crossed armed acting and no facial expressions or being a robot. Lol

At least EBR acts with her entire body.

[EmilyBettFan]

Here's my spec: Felicity and the Calculator realize they're father/daughter and current enemies. They agree to a meeting, but she's on comms, with Oliver and the rest of TA. Felicity has a bit of a cruel streak, which she doesn't get from her sweet-as-heck mom, so I'm going to guess she gets it from daddy. He mentions that he left her and her mom for his other family. She says that she could never want to be around a man who would do that. He says "What about your fiancé and his second family?" Oliver's on the comms freaking out telling her he can explain, just let him explain. Then daddy dear could twist the knife by pointing out weirdness Felicity has already noticed, like Oliver being weird about his phone and visiting CC a lot.

Tom Amandes would kill that scene.

omg I can so totally see that. I need that now lol. Tom, Emily and Stephen would be awesome but Tom would totally own it.

[Happy Harpy]

Why, why, why do fanboys want SA to done that ridiculous facial hair

I'll raise you a why, why, why do fanboys want Arrow to look like that in  any way or shape. 

[BkWurm1]

If they felt that strongly about her, maybe they should have cast her as Poppy... cuz those dailies must be duds. It's all a matter of comparison.

 

TBH, I don't hate the actress that plays her, but the character is HORRENDOUS & the worst cliche. Arrow already has a wanna be nice-girl that comes off as a

bitch that supposed to be the girl next door. We don't need another drama inducing character. At least LL is comic canon legacy, we have to keep her around cuz comics, Samantha doesn't have any legacy rights to mess up ARROW any more than she has.

BM actress is a good actress but she does IMO usually get characters that lean toward bitchy which worked wonderfully for her last character on Defiance since she was getting jerked around and was pissed (rightfully so) but it's IMO probably going to make her really easy to keep hating even if they try to give her more flattering material to work with.  I'm just petty enough right now to be very pleased about that. 

 

Wendy Mericle said in an interview that he is not going to tell her.  She's going to find out some other way.  Additionally, they've said his lies come to a head "around the middle of the season."  That's not 4.10, it's more like 12-ish...aka February sweeps.  In show time, that's 2-3 months.  He's going to lie to her and visit the kid, piling on more lies, for 2-3 months.  Lie to her face, in their home, while living off her money.  And PROPOSE MARRIAGE to her while lying with basically every breath he takes.

Oh Gawd!  I forgot about the Oliver being a kept man.  Suddenly the lying is that much worse, like it might cross Felicity's mind for a split second that he was just using her for her resources. 

 

I think the proposal will happen because Oliver has just been threatened with the possibility of actually losing Felicity for real (and not just by breaking up but by, you know, death, if the gassing is any indication) so he'll just be so high on the fact that she's alive and they're together and he'll want to show his love and commitment by proposing. I don't think he'll even be thinking of his secret son at that moment. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if he doesn't start to tell her in the limo, once the high and the emotion has had a moment to settle and then of course, DOOM. 

I could handle this.  She's still going to dump him but it would let me not feel sick over the proposal the next time it comes around (note to self, find wood and knock on it)

 

They've drawn comparisons to Oliver and Papa Smoak before (2x13 and 4x06). What are the chances Papa Smoak has a secret family too?

Oh!  Maybe the blackmail PS has over Roy is that...dun, dun, dun...he's his daddy!  I kid but Roy as Felicity's younger brother would so cute.

 

 

 

I can see Felicity's dad telling her about Oliver's son, although I'm not quite sure how he would know that. Details! 

 

But I can totally see them coming up against each other and Felicity maybe defending what she does with Oliver and her dad will be like 'Do you even know the kind of man he is?' or whatever and then totally drop him in the shit. 

I'd enjoy it if he was actually trying to be a good guy and look out for her by telling her about secret kid.  Kind of how Malcolm in his twisted way loves and wants to look out for Thea, Papa Smoak could acknowledge that he was a deadbeat but it didn't mean he didn't care in his own way.  The actor can pull of sincere just as well as snarky.

Edited December 5, 2015 by BkWurm1

[BkWurm1]

if there’s a secret somewhere, it’s going to come out and it’s going to have some serious consequences. We’re really excited about how that’s going to change things

 

This line from WM puzzles and concerns me. 

 

Ok, consequences of the secret coming out, I understand that.  Seems like a given at this point that they would break up - but would WM really be saying she's excited about them breaking up?  I could understand spinning it as 'will be interesting to see how it plays out' but "excited about how that's going to change things" kind sounds to me that she's excited about what storyline possibilities happen once Felicity and Oliver have broken up.  Because we basically did Oliver and Felicity broken up last year and NOBODY found it exciting so it seems to imply she excited about what will happen with the character(s) but not in the context of them interacting with each other.

 

 

Would that translate to BM scenes?  Have her be interested and  Oliver consider trying to create a family since it would be good for the kid and he’s sure Felicity would never have him back.  He’s still the GA and on DD naughty list so how they’d justify him claiming them as family is murky (maybe the secret is outed and he has to stick close to protect them?)

 

 

Ack!  What evil seed is sprouting in my brain?  This is what happens when I stop trusting that the writers are not assholes.    

 

There's also a tiny nagging worry I have that they will throw the Lauriver shippers a bone around that time.  I still don't expect them to actually go there, but even having Oliver consider it in a moment of despair, weakness and likely a lot of booze would sicken me.  I mean, I can just imagine them have Laurel the one to sensibly push Oliver away.  Or I'm wrong and they really did binge Gilmore Girls and nothing stops them.

 

 I think I just made myself sick.

Edited December 5, 2015 by BkWurm1

[lemotomato]

BkWurm1, are you spending too much time on that other board again? It's really not good for your health...

[Ceylon5]

How about this:  Darhk does find out about the kid, and the only way to keep him safe is for the mother and kid to disappear, assume new identities in some far off land and never be in contact with Oliver ever again (which I imagine the mother probably never would want to do anyway, after he basically blew up their lives the moment he came near them).  Kid problem solved!

 

That doesn't solve the stupid, lying Oliver problem, but Felicity is such a compassionate soul that maybe she'll feel so sorry for Oliver losing his son like that, that she'll give him a chance to redeem himself (again)?

Edited December 5, 2015 by Ceylon5

[BkWurm1]

BkWurm1, are you spending too much time on that other board again? It's really not good for your health...

Nope.  This is me spiraling all on my own.  :(  That line in the sand that I was certain the show just wouldn't ever cross...I can't see it right now.  I'm so all over the place, mostly convinced that my love for Oliver and Felicity's relationship can survive after all even if he does propose but at the same time now half expecting Oliver to regress to the point where I'll only feel comfortable calling him Ollie until he gets his head out of his ass. 

Edited December 5, 2015 by BkWurm1

[lemotomato]

How about this: Darhk does find out about the kid, and the only way to keep him safe is for the mother and kid to disappear, assume new identities in some far off land and never be in contact with Oliver ever again (which I imagine the mother probably never would want to do anyway, after he basically blew up their lives the moment he came near them). Kid problem solved!

I think that's pretty much exactly how Nikita handled the surprise kid problem, and it worked rather well.

[BkWurm1]

I think that's pretty much exactly how Nikita handled the surprise kid problem, and it worked rather well.

Didn't Nikita also have Nikita say, go, be with them as a family and take me out of the equation and see if you want to stay with them?  And he took her up on it for a couple months before he came back to her? 

Edited December 5, 2015 by BkWurm1

[lemotomato]

Nope. This is me spiraling all on my own. :( That line in the sand that I was certain the show just wouldn't ever cross...I can't see it right now. I'm so all over the place, mostly convinced that my love for Oliver and Felicity's relationship can survive after all even if he does propose but at the same time now half expecting Oliver to regress to the point where I'll call him Ollie until he gets his head out of his ass.

I feel like I should be freaking out, but I'm kind of... not. I think it's because Oliver has done so many shitty things that if him being forced to lie to Felicity about his son is the inevitable big relationship-wrecking mistake he's going to make, it is probably not the worst thing he could have done. For me, this is bad, but fixable. Cheating is where I draw the line.

And this is me being stupidly optimistic, but this is Oliver's first big screw up this season. I haven't seen anything else that indicates he's going to spiral out into bad decision-ville like he did last season, so I'm not going to panic until there's more to panic about.

Didn't Nikita also have Nikita say, go, be with them as a family and take me out of the equation and see if you want to stay with them? And he took her up on it for a couple months before he came back to her?

Yes, but he did choose to go back to her. And then a couple episodes later they promptly wrote out the kid and his mom and they were never brought up again. I think I can live with that, depending on how they fix the Oliver lying part. Edited December 5, 2015 by lemotomato

[looptab]

Given the new pic of CR and EBR they must be on 13 already. Do we know how it's titled? Did Guggie post the front page?

[bijoux]

Didn't Nikita also have Nikita say, go, be with them as a family and take me out of the equation and see if you want to stay with them?  And he took her up on it for a couple months before he came back to her? 

 

That couldn't really be viable until the end of the season. The whole reason Oliver is back is DD. And he's going to leave before H.I.V.E. is dealt with?

[dtissagirl]

Given the new pic of CR and EBR they must be on 13 already. Do we know how it's titled? Did Guggie post the front page?

 

I think they started 413 yesterday, but only because the 412 script cover said Dec 3 was their last day.

[statsgirl]

We’re really excited about how that’s going to change things

    

This line from WM puzzles and concerns me.

I'm sure it's only "we're really going to stir up a lot of drama and mess with the characters' minds and because we're writers, we're going to have a lot of fun with that"

 

I don't think I would like it if Felicity told Oliver to "go be a family with them" even for a little while. He never had a real relationship with BM, ever, and after what she's pulled here, he should never want one..

 

I'm strangely zen about it all because I expect them to be back together at the end of the season.  Maybe it's because I hate the alternative (3 years spent apart dating other people as Castle and ER did it)so much that I'm okay with this.  Or maybe it's because I'd rather have Felicity on my screen in a story about Oliver than off it for 6 episodes (s2) or with Ray (s3).

Edited December 5, 2015 by statsgirl