Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Morrigan2575]

S2 and S3 they filmed through 14 before Christmas Break. I wonder if they'll get through 14 this year. I think they started a week late and added a day to filming schedule.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Happy Harpy]

So, I do not dislike the Poppy actress or Poppy BECAUSE she's a love interest.  I think the actress is fairly blah and not very charismatic, and the character is kind of shitty, what with letting one guy get killed and another guy tortured because of what she did (and then she berated Oliver for not knowing the torture victim's name, when hello, she was the REASON the guy was being tortured, like get off your high horse, woman!).

I hope I didn't sound like I meant otherwise. It annoys me when people assume that dislikes are the result of an agenda, and not a simple reaction to a character, so it wasn't at all my intention. I had to state enough times that I disliked Laurel on her own demerits.

I think it's quite normal that shippers aren't going to be enamored at the idea another LI for a half of their couple, even a past one, but it doesn't mean that people who don't like the character or the actress are automatically shippers, or that non-shippers would automatically love her and think she deserves an Oscar.

[Guest]

I couldn't care less about the flashback love interest. I do think Oliver falling in love with her is gonna be pointless in the long run but whatever. It happens in the past. I don't care. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Also, I still have no interest in the crossovers. I watch this show mainly for the characters beneath the masks so when there's just gonna be two hours of nothing but hyping the importance of masks over everything else, I zone out. And I'm sorry but 8 episodes of the season are essentially setting up that crossover whether MG believes that or not. I'm sick of Arrow being used this way.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Guest

[bijoux]

Holy crap on a cracker levels of crazy!

If it turns out they've been writing Laurel towards a full psychotic break throughout this terrible storyline, I will actually bow to them.

Also, way to keep lying, Laurel!

Well, my first reaction was, wow, Laurel, this is a new level of deliberate obtuseness even for you, but this would actually make čomplete sense and I really want it to happen now.

I

That's really dumb. No thanks to new lair getting all busted up. It's too pretty.

That's not the new lair. It's Oliver's campaign HQ.

Idk how no one is using this gif yet:

While much appreciated, this gif does not do justice to this. Honestly, I don't know what would.

I was coming to make this exact comment. Didn't Laurel just witness Thea trying to kill her brother a couple of weeks ago? JFC.

In Laurel's mind that's probably because it's Oliver. And this is her so everything will be fine. How on Earth do they get over this? She manipulates Thea to go to NP, resurrects Sara over Nyssa and Malcolm's objections, and Thea's sizeable amount of doubt, then keeps her in hiding, in turn making Thea keep lying to her brother because she doesn't need his judgement, only to have him pull strings to at least minimally correct her errors?! What's the opposite of the hallway scene after that? Instead of walking away from her, Oliver charges at her in a blind rage?

I wonder if this will result in a breach bw Thea and Laurel and Thea moving back into the loft?

Jesus, it should. If she doesn't make the decision herslef, Oliver and Felicity should stage an intervention, pačk all her shit and just move her! She needs and deserves someone who will keep an eye on her anyhow.

ETA: I don't really expect Oliver to fall in love in the flashback.

Edited October 26, 2015 by bijoux

[Guest]

I just hope Thea tells Oliver the truth about Sara otherwise she'll be looking real hypocritical with her 'no more secrets and lies!' train she's been on since late s2. Saying that, she did lie about knowing Malcolm was alive and going away with him so yeah. I just talked myself out of that one. Haha.

[kismet]

The snarky part of me wants to believe that the opposite of the hallway scene would be OQ throwing a glass or something else.

 

But the realistic part of me understands that it will probably be an emotional hugging scene and a reconnecting of O/L. Honestly, I just wish they had written LL's choices better in s4, that I could actually be behind a reconciliation. Instead, I'm wondering why OQ is not staging an intervention on behalf of LL.

[TwistedandBored]

But this is WAY better than the typical Lance family drama! Laurel peruses photo books with Sara, a possessed Sara tries to murder Laurel, Laurel gives Daddy a surprise!, Lance contemplates murdering his resurrected daughter. Crazy fun!

LMAO! When you recapped everything that is coming...I just died laughing.

Edited October 26, 2015 by MuuMuuChainsmoker
Fan talk

[bijoux]

The snarky part of me wants to believe that the opposite of the hallway scene would be OQ throwing a glass or something else.

But the realistic part of me understands that it will probably be an emotional hugging scene and a reconnecting of O/L. Honestly, I just wish they had written LL's choices better in s4, that I could actually be behind a reconciliation. Instead, I'm wondering why OQ is not staging an intervention on behalf of LL.

Well, now that you mention it, Oliver did wash his hands of her last time. An intervention could be considered the opposite. Edited October 26, 2015 by bijoux

[Morrigan2575]

So how do we think Oliver/OTA finds out about Sara? I'm wondering if he even finds out in 404, maybe it happens in 405 which is why he calls in Constantine?

[Guest]

I think it will happen near the end of 404.

[kismet]

Can we please have OQ searching through the loft looking for chains, you know for reasons... and then TQ walks in and asks what he's looking for? And then she says "well, funny story". Cut to priceless SA/OQ facial reaction as TQ spills the beans. Then the big reveal of crazy SL, cut to black.

[AyChihuahua]

I hope I didn't sound like I meant otherwise. It annoys me when people assume that dislikes are the result of an agenda, and not a simple reaction to a character, so it wasn't at all my intention. I had to state enough times that I disliked Laurel on her own demerits.

I think it's quite normal that shippers aren't going to be enamored at the idea another LI for a half of their couple, even a past one, but it doesn't mean that people who don't like the character or the actress are automatically shippers, or that non-shippers would automatically love her and think she deserves an Oscar.

No, I hear ya, I just am not at all interested in Poppy and it's not because of shipping.

[kismet]

Well it looks like from the video on SA's FB we will not be getting any skinny dipping anytime soon. He walked fully clothed into the Pacific Ocean :(

 

Looks like "Dark Waters" title could be taken literally.

[statsgirl]

there is so much comic gold to be mined when Laurel reveals Sara and how she is these days.

 

I hope there is a storyline that comes with the crossovers this season because I've never been impressed with the masks. Usually this show takes shortcuts with the character if he/she is wearing a mask.
 

I can't see why the writers could think that having the campaign office above the Lair 2.0 is good idea, since they get attacked by so many villains, also the location would only be convenient during the campaign, not when (if) he is in Office.

This.  It made sense to have the secret lair under Verdant because it was deserted during the day and gave Oliver a reason to be around at night.  The campaign office is going to be busy 20 hours a day, 7 days a week and someone is going to notice that the Green Arrow appears every time Oliver disappears suddenly.

 

Not to mention even seemingly endless campaigns end as some point and then Oliver will be spending his time in City Hall and his campaign office will be rented to someone else.

 

Seeing bugs is sometimes a warning sign of mental illness, drug or biologically induced hallucinations. Perhaps we are headed for a breakdown. OMG, if LL does have a real breakdown maybe they can rehabilitate her character in a psych ward and it will be a whole new day for LL. Just like it was a whole new day for Barbara on Gotham. Don't worry SL can visit her and bring family photos to bring her back. And if not, there is always opening on the Suicide Squad.

That's an interesting way of looking at it. But it's Thea seeing bugs (how does she know what a cockroach looks like? From Roy's place?) so maybe it's the LP influence again.

 

Yay, Laurel says that Sara just needs a few more days. And SOME of you, not naming names, were critical when I said that Sara might just need some Cymbalta!

Or you could try giving it to Laurel instead.  Girl needs something.

[AyChihuahua]

 

What's the opposite of the hallway scene after that? Instead of walking away from her, Oliver charges at her in a blind rage?

OMG, yes, please!

 

When does that scene happen?  4.06?

[Guest]

LMAO. I genuinely think the O/L scene is them becoming better friends. Oliver will probably say how much he admires that Laurel believed in Sara's soul SO MUCH!!!! I'm getting ready to roll my eyes already! 

[wonderwall]

you know this resurrection was more about LL than her love for Sara when she refuses to let people know so they can help her figure out how to save Sara's soul... Apparently LL Loves her pride more than her sister? 

 

Yeah that seems fitting. 

[Morrigan2575]

No, no, no Laurel is the most loving, selfless, strong, brave, heroic character on the show.

Make no mistake somehow/someway/someone will thank Laurel for being the only one who loved Sara enough and, who was brave enough to "save" Sara's soul.

Make no mistake Laurel will suffer no consequences for her actions, there is no story line or character growth just an infinite number of characters tossed under the bus in order to make her stupidly selfish actions be the RIGHT course

Edited October 26, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[kismet]

That's an interesting way of looking at it. But it's Thea seeing bugs (how does she know what a cockroach looks like? From Roy's place?) so maybe it's the LP influence again.

Good catch, I looked at the comic quickly and saw the bubble above LL's head, so I just assumed she had said it. Either way I'm still hoping for a full out legit LL mental breakdown.

 

As for TQ knowing what cockroach looks like, who knows the girl lived a sheltered life but she's not dumb. And my guess is running Verdent she was exposed to some vermin & bugs.

[Chaser]

Chances are Laurel doesn't even fess up to what she has done. I'm betting Lance or Thea tells Oliver at the end of the episode. I can totally see the episode ending on a shocked Oliver whispering "Sara."

 

That would mean Oliver and Laurel hit a rough patch for half an episode before he is reassuring her that her friendship means so much to him and he will be there for her.

Edited October 26, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[Morrigan2575]

Chances are Laurel doesn't even fess up to what she has done. I'm betting Lance or Thea tells Oliver at the end of the episode. I can totally see the episode ending on a shocked Oliver whispering "Sara."

That would mean Oliver and Laurel hit a rough patch for half an episode before he is reassuring her that her friendship means so much to him and he will be there for her.

Where did that spoiler come from?

[lemotomato]

LMAO. I genuinely think the O/L scene is them becoming better friends. Oliver will probably say how much he admires that Laurel believed in Sara's soul SO MUCH!!!! I'm getting ready to roll my eyes already!

I can totally see the softer, more understanding season 4 Oliver sympathizing with Laurel over how they both went through SO MUCH to save their sisters. As if Laurel's experience is even remotely comparable to Oliver giving up his life and being tortured by the LoA for 3 weeks. Whatever, show!

[apinknightmare]

Where did that spoiler come from?

 

I think that comment is conjecture based on MG's tumblr post about Oliver and Laurel getting closer after hitting a rough patch.

[Chaser]

Where did that spoiler come from?

It's just speculation on how 4x04 and 4x05's hallway scene goes down.

[Morrigan2575]

Ah, ok. Thanks

[bijoux]

I can totally see the softer, more understanding season 4 Oliver sympathizing with Laurel over how they both went through SO MUCH to save their sisters. As if Laurel's experience is even remotely comparable to Oliver giving up his life and being tortured by the LoA for 3 weeks. Whatever, show!

Ah yes. Signing away your life and soul = tossing your sister in the pit to see how it goes, then being basically, "but daddy, what's wrong with her, she won't play with me?"  

 

ETA: Morrigan2575, I was actually convinced you were being facetious. :)

Edited October 26, 2015 by bijoux

[Guest]

I can totally see the softer, more understanding season 4 Oliver sympathizing with Laurel over how they both went through SO MUCH to save their sisters. As if Laurel's experience is even remotely comparable to Oliver giving up his life and being tortured by the LoA for 3 weeks. Whatever, show!

 

Yep! It's so predictable at this point it's boring. I don't even care. I knew Laurel would never suffer any consequences. 

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

That's my go-to expression for Laurel now. Just whatever. 

[Happy Harpy]

No, no, no Laurel is the most loving, selfless, strong, brave, heroic character on the show.

Make no mistake somehow/someway/someone will thank Laurel for being the only one who loved Sara enough and, who was brave enough to "save" Sara's soul.

Make no mistake Laurel will suffer no consequences for her actions, there is no story line or character growth just an infinite number of characters tossed under the bus in order to make her stupidly selfish actions be the RIGHT course

The idea of O/L ever being OK at all after what she did to Thea infuriates me, let alone being OK so fast, but maybe I should count my blessings in the light of this "Laurel is right" perspective plus the obviously sour state of mind of Laurel when it comes to Oliver (comic preview).

The opposite of the hallway scene, otherwise, could very well be Laurel tearing into Oliver for not telling her about the LP, giving up on Sara therefore being unable to love etc.

 

I'm certain, too, that someone will thank Laurel. I'm afraid, for my stomach, that everyone will thank Laurel.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[AyChihuahua]

I discovered during Supernatural's excellent first season that I have a thing for fully-clothed hot dudes diving into water.  So it turns out the Oliver beach scene (from SA's twitter) works for me.

[apinknightmare]

I'm certain, too, that someone will thank Laurel. I'm afraid, for my stomach, that everyone will thank Laurel.

 

Come on, Sara herself is going to thank her. It's a given.

[kismet]

Maybe they'll have big Thank You Celebration party (minus the wine glasses).... Maybe Joe West can even stop by and spew some his delusional thoughts about why LL was definitely "in the right". He seems to wax poetic delusions on the Flash on a regular basis. LL is clearly the savior of the show. I mean why is the show even still called ARROW? (sarcasm intended)

[dtissagirl]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That's my go-to expression for Laurel now. Just whatever.

It's a more engaging expression than the Blank Stare of Nothingness.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edit: as infuriating as it is that everyone else will probably suffer consequences but Laurel, otoh... Her actions being framed as right give her the least amount of story beats. Consequences for Laurel means extra storyline for Laurel. And so I'll take Laurel being right if it keeps her as far away from the A plot as possible?

Edited October 27, 2015 by dtissagirl

[bethy]

Edit: as infuriating as it is that everyone else will probably suffer consequences but Laurel, otoh... Her actions being framed as right give her the least amount of story beats. Consequences for Laurel means extra storyline for Laurel. And so I'll take Laurel being right if it keeps her as far away from the A plot as possible?

Ooo, I like it.

It's better than the ragey/sick feeling I get when I contemplate everyone telling Laurel how awesome and right she was about this stupid storyline. I will close my eyes, push the fast-forward button, and chant "It keeps her out of the A-plot. It keeps her out of the A-plot."

[Morrigan2575]

It's a more engaging expression than the Blank Stare of Nothingness.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edit: as infuriating as it is that everyone else will probably suffer consequences but Laurel, otoh... Her actions being framed as right give her the least amount of story beats. Consequences for Laurel means extra storyline for Laurel. And so I'll take Laurel being right if it keeps her as far away from the A plot as possible?

I saw the same logic/feelings last year. If they half ass her evolution to Because Comics and rush the story less time will be spent on her afterwards. It didn't work for me last season, just annoyed the hell out of me that they killed Sara off for LL stupidity and she was always around afterwards, IMO Edited October 27, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Primal Slayer]

I'm hoping that they at least let Laurel break the news to the team, ask for help, and how she thought she could make Sara better but is in over her head.

[wonderwall]

I'm pretty sure they're going to make LL tell the team after Sara chokes her to near death and Quentin's 'solution' to the problem is to kill Sara...... So........... really... It's still not that great because then apparently something will have to happen to LAUREL in order for her to do something about fixing Sara... -_-

Edited October 27, 2015 by wonderwall

[calliope1975]

Edit: as infuriating as it is that everyone else will probably suffer consequences but Laurel, otoh... Her actions being framed as right give her the least amount of story beats. Consequences for Laurel means extra storyline for Laurel. And so I'll take Laurel being right if it keeps her as far away from the A plot as possible?

 

I know it's coming so I hope the Laurel tongue bathing is brief and quick. Then, throw her back into the background so I can go back to ignoring her. I predict we'll also get some commentary from Rip Hunter on how what ever would the universe have done if Sara had stayed dead. 

 

However, I will not abide by Constantine giving any kind of blessing to this debacle. There shall be no mischaracterization of John Fucking Constantine to justify Laurel's actions.

[SmallScreenDiva]

That's a good step if the writers have Laurel do that, acknowledge her mistake and ask for help. But it also depends on how Katie Cassidy plays it. Sometimes it's just so difficult to feel any empathy for Laurel because of how standoffish KC plays her. Fewer arm-crossing, fewer blank stares. Not saying it's going to bring the audience to her side, but it might soften the rage-y feeling I feel. 

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited October 27, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[Morrigan2575]

However, I will not abide by Constantine giving any kind of blessing to this debacle. There shall be no mischaracterization of John Fucking Constantine to justify Laurel's actions.

OMG, if they screw over John Constantine for Laurel I will break out the voodoo doll and force MG to repeatedly bitchslap himself.

[Primal Slayer]

I'm pretty sure they're going to make LL tell the team after Sara chokes her to near death and Quentin's 'solution' to the problem is to kill Sara...... So........... really... It's still not that great because then apparently something will have to happen to LAUREL in order for her to do something about fixing Sara... -_-

I think something drastic would have to happen though for Laurel to finally see that her sister is not in there. She wasn't there when Thea set Anarky on fire and Oliver is keeping that a secret so all Laurel has seen of Thea going "off the rails" is beating up bad guys and when she lost her temper with Oliver. 

[wonderwall]

I think something drastic would have to happen though for Laurel to finally see that her sister is not in there. She wasn't there when Thea set Anarky on fire and Oliver is keeping that a secret so all Laurel has seen of Thea going "off the rails" is beating up bad guys and when she lost her temper with Oliver. 

And seeing her chained up like an animal in a dungeon didn't do it? Um.......... At least LL could've put her in a spare bedroom or motel or something. It's just telling that something has to happen to Laurel to finally get things to click in her mind but not Sara if my scenario plays out. But let's be the judge of that after the episode though lol. 

[apinknightmare]

And seeing her chained up like an animal in a dungeon didn't do it? Um.......... At least LL could've put her in a spare bedroom or motel or something. It's just telling that something has to happen to Laurel to finally get things to click in her mind but not Sara if my scenario plays out. But let's be the judge of that after the episode though lol. 

 

Not trying to be devil's advocate here, but I get Laurel not wanting to bring Sara home or put her in a hotel. At least she's smart enough to realize that Sara IS a threat, and she needs to be contained to some place she's less likely to choke someone out (oop@Laurel - she'll find that one out the hard way).

[Primal Slayer]

She knows that Sara will be all rage-y after coming out of the pit so she is trying to contain the situation until (as she thinks) Sara regains a sense of who she was. She doesn't have a nice mansion to chain her up in like Buffy had with Angel but I can't imagine there were that many places she could put her, yeah the location sucks. But something would have to happen to someone, Laurel is at least doing one thing smart by keeping her away from others for the time being.  

And seeing her chained up like an animal in a dungeon didn't do it? Um.......... At least LL could've put her in a spare bedroom or motel or something. It's just telling that something has to happen to Laurel to finally get things to click in her mind but not Sara if my scenario plays out. But let's be the judge of that after the episode though lol. 

[wonderwall]

Not trying to be devil's advocate here, but I get Laurel not wanting to bring Sara home or put her in a hotel. At least she's smart enough to realize that Sara IS a threat, and she needs to be contained to some place she's less likely to choke someone out (oop@Laurel - she'll find that one out the hard way).

 

But that just means that LL knows that her sister is not there? The fact that Laurel has to chain her up like an animal should be evidence enough. But that's just my opinion. Unfortunately, it's Laurel's pride that's keeping Sara from regaining herself becuase she doesn't want Oliver to judge her. Yikes. 

 

ETA: But you're right about the hotel thing... At least give her an air mattress lol

Edited October 27, 2015 by wonderwall

[apinknightmare]

But that just means that LL knows that her sister is not there? The fact that Laurel has to chain her up like an animal should be evidence enough. But that's just my opinion. Unfortunately, it's Laurel's pride that's keeping Sara from regaining herself becuase she doesn't want Oliver to judge her. Yikes. 

 

Laurel seems to be fairly aware that Sara isn't Sara, and I don't think that's the problem. It's Laurel believing—against all evidence to the contrary, and people telling her otherwise—that Sara's going to come back. 

[Primal Slayer]

Laurel thinks that since Sara was dead for so long, it will take her longer to regain who she was before, that's why she doesn't want anyone to know about it yet. She thinks that Sara will calm down and the Sara she knows will start showing. 

[wonderwall]

Laurel seems to be fairly aware that Sara isn't Sara, and I don't think that's the problem. It's Laurel believing—against all evidence to the contrary, and people telling her otherwise—that Sara's going to come back. 

 

I'm truly curious how this will play out and whether or not it will seem like this. 

 

Laurel thinks that since Sara was dead for so long, it will take her longer to regain who she was before, that's why she doesn't want anyone to know about it yet. She thinks that Sara will calm down and the Sara she knows will start showing. 

 

Well LL said she wanted a couple of days. I don't think that's long at all especially considering Thea's still suffering from her LP aftereffects after 6-7 months. 

 

I just think that LL is being a dumbass basically, and her pride is getting in the way because she clearly said she doesn't want Oliver to judge her yet. Of course, a few photos aren't going to work. Sara's in a worse state than that. 

 

I mean, her hope that there's something that resembles Sara in her body should be heartbreaking right? But all I see is her being a dumbass. And I really do wonder why. 

[apinknightmare]

But all I see is her being a dumbass. And I really do wonder why. 

 

It's because she's been acting like a dumbass for the past couple of eps.

[Primal Slayer]

Thea is suffering from side effects still but she is still Thea majority of the time. She only loses control when she is fighting. I don't think she expects Sara to be 100% cured but to at least carry a conversation and act halfway normal.

 

Well LL said she wanted a couple of days. I don't think that's long at all especially considering Thea's still suffering from her LP aftereffects after 6-7 months. 

 

But I don't expect it to play out like I think it will so I think it will probably come off way worse.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Primal Slayer

[wonderwall]

Thea is suffering from side effects still but she is still Thea majority of the time. She only loses control when she is fighting. I don't think she expects Sara to be 100% cured but to at least carry a conversation and act halfway normal.

 

But I don't expect it to play out like I think it will so I think it will probably come off way worse.

 

Meh Thea wasn't dead. Sara was for a year. So, really, the severity of Sara's condition is way, way worse that LL should know a couple of photographs won't fix it. I mean she's being super naive and it's making her look like an idiot. 

 

And lol when it comes to LL, always keep your expectations low. I do and even then i"m super disappointed in her arcs.