Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

It's this promo at around 1:15. Although now that I've watched it again, it sort of looks like they edited to make it look like Oliver is talking to Nyssa, but they're not actually in the same scene, it's hard to tell. 

 

 

Sadly, I think that's Malcolm. 

 

My bet is that she's a goner on Wednesday. I'll be pleasantly surprised if she isn't.

[Velocity23]

Isnt the Can you handle this from episode 2? When he checked with Thea?

[Angel12d]

But if Nyssa dies, Laurel's actions basically set in motion her death. They wouldn't do that, right? No?

Edited October 19, 2015 by Angel12d

[foreverevolving]

For that matter so is FS's name. But the writers have not inferred or written anything since that random name drop of Harbinger in one episode. Lyla is still technically considered a non-mask. But there is the possibility for the writers to go there if they wanted to. Not denying its a possibility, but as it stands now IMO Arrow's Lyla Michaels is not DC comics version of Lyla Michaels/Harbinger.

 

Whereas, almost every episode since reverse flash did whatever he did to CIsco, the show has implied that he is headed for a mask. SO in script its more obvious that Cisco is becoming more than just a non-mask.

 

Actually they ended up making Felicity alot like her comics counter-part, job wise anyhow. FS in the comics owned a tech/computer company.

Lyla doesn't need to wear an actual mask, what I mean by bringing her closer to her comic counter is by making her the connection person between all the heroes, the one who goes out and finds them for when they need multiple heroes to fight a big threat one they can't fight by themselves; in the sense that she'll be the recruiter and a sort of liaison person (possibly sharing it with Felicity) for what will become the DCTV Justice League. Also Barry (Caitlin and Cisco too I think) obviously knows her, as he contacted her last year when they needed help with Wells (well he was looking for Oliver, but still), I'm gonna assume she knows Sara, she knows Ray, and I'm sure over the crossover she'll become acquainted with Jay Jackson, Stein (if she isn't already) and Kendra.

So now she may not end up wearing an actual mask, but her position will be similar to that of her comic counterpart.

Edited October 19, 2015 by foreverevolving

[AyChihuahua]

But if Nyssa dies, Laurel's actions basically set in motion her death. They wouldn't do that, right? No?

There's really no basically about it. 

[dtissagirl]

Isnt the Can you handle this from episode 2? When he checked with Thea?

 

Yes it is. 32:23 mark of 402.

[Starfish35]

I really don't want Nyssa to die. :(

That said, if she does, I have this mental image of her haunting Laurel for the rest of her life - becoming the snarky angel in her shoulder. The Mike Franks to Laurel's Gibbs (if NCIS viewers will pardon the comparison). Not that I think that is likely to happen at all - just the idea of Laurel having to deal with Nyssa looking over her shoulder and critiquing her for the rest of her life amuses me. Yes, I know, I have a warped sense of humor.

[Morrigan2575]

I don't want it to happen either and really hope we're wrong but I'm prepared for it to happen. Of course my ultimate reaction will depend on the how/who kills her...I'm fully expecting the worse case scenario on this and my rage will be epic if that happens.

[Starfish35]

Yeah I'm prepared for it. I'll be relieved if it doesn't happen, but I'm bracing myself.

I figure there's two options if she does die. Either Sara kills her because of being crazy from the LP, or Malcolm kills her for defying him on it.

Both options are bad. I'm not sure at this point which would make me more angry.

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah I'm prepared for it. I'll be relieved if it doesn't happen, but I'm bracing myself.

I figure there's two options if she does die. Either Sara kills her because of being crazy from the LP, or Malcolm kills her for defying him on it.

Both options are bad. I'm not sure at this point which would make me more angry.

Crazy LP Sara killing Nyssa is my worst case scenario. Poor Sara having to carry that guilt/sorrow/anger/self loathing around with her.

[apinknightmare]

I don't want her to die, but I'm 85% convinced that she will. 

 

I specifically don't want her to die at Malcolm's hands. I also don't want Sara dealing with knowing that she killed her in a post-pit rage from a resurrection that she didn't ask for. Since Malcolm says no and is vocally against using the pit, and there was a spoiler that Nyssa is against it as well (wasn't there? Maybe I'm wrong about that), I don't really know how exactly she'd die. Like, why are Nyssa and Malcolm fighting - that part doesn't make sense to me. 

 

The most fucked-up scenario my mind can cook up is Malcolm making Laurel fight/off Nyssa in order to use the pit, but no way would the show ever go there. 

 

So, I've got nothing. 

 

I just really hope they don't have Sara do it.

 

 

Regarding the preview: Glad that WM said that Thea has her own agenda for going to NP, although I'm confused, because wasn't getting Thea help supposed to be like...part of the actual agenda? 

Edited October 19, 2015 by apinknightmare

[bijoux]

Soooo, Thea's part vampire now?

Yay. OTA scenes. Multiple times. All the time. Those are three costume changes for Felicity! I know Oliver probably raises his hand defensively durng the loud voice but I like to amuse myself imagining he does it asking to speak in class.

[AyChihuahua]

Both likely Nyssa-death options suck.

 

I expect MM will say no initially but eventually cave, presumably in response to Thea's entreaties, whereas Nyssa will not cave.  Thus the fight bw Nyssa and MM.

 

Wow, Oliver's already done trying with Digg?  In the third episode?  I do not agree with your decision, Oliver.  And here you and I were doing so well this season!

Edited October 19, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[apinknightmare]

I wonder why he'd cave though? I mean, Thea could ask beg him to do it to ease her guilt, but wouldn't he be worried about Sara going after Thea since Sara knew Thea was the one who killed her? 

 

No, no, Self. Don't expect it to make sense. 

Edited October 19, 2015 by apinknightmare

[AyChihuahua]

I wonder why he'd cave though? I mean, Thea could ask beg him to do it to ease her guilt, but wouldn't he be worried about Sara going after Thea since Sara knew Thea was the one who killed her? 

 

No, no, Self. Don't expect it to make sense. 

You and your excellent questions.  

 

I think MM is in the resurrection scene, and while it's idiotic, he is the boss, so I basically figure they simply couldn't do it without his permission.  He'll probably just cave bc of guilt over Thea and her guilt, and maybe figure at worst he can just re-kill Sara?  

 

On the plus side, I always knew Nyssa, and Sara once she gets her brain/soul/whatever back, wouldn't blame Thea.  Honestly I kind of blame Thea, bc she knowingly left town to get "trained" by a mass-murdering psychopath, but both Nyssa and Sara are far kinder than I and wouldn't blame a woman for being drugged and manipulated by a man.

Edited October 19, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Velocity23]

 

ROFL

[apinknightmare]

LMAO, what is Oliver mouthing?

On the plus side, I always knew Nyssa, and Sara once she gets her brain/soul/whatever back, wouldn't blame Thea.  Honestly I kind of blame Thea, bc she knowingly left town to get "trained" by a mass-murdering psychopath, but both Nyssa and Sara are far kinder than I and wouldn't blame a woman for being drugged and manipulated by a man.

 

Oh, definitely. I meant post-pit cray Sara might go after her. But maybe she'll be so discombobulated that she won't remember her murder? IDK.

[hogwash]

How's Malcolm gonna help? He made her murder someone... blegh

[bijoux]

 

Wow, Oliver's already done trying with Digg?  In the third episode?  I do not agree with your decision, Oliver.  And here you and I were doing so well this season!

Oliver: I'm done waiting for him to come around. This needs to be dealt with now!

Felicity: how? ... You're bringing out the slow cooker, aren't you?

Oliver: By God, I am. There will be food and desserts aplenty. Dig's heart and stomach shall be wrapped in my delicious baked goods and he shall forgive me!

[Velocity23]

Isnt that the episode Stephen bit his tongue?

[AyChihuahua]

Oliver: I'm done waiting for him to come around. This needs to be dealt with now!

Felicity: how? ... You're bringing out the slow cooker, aren't you?

Oliver: By God, I am. There will be food and desserts aplenty. Dig's heart and stomach shall be wrapped in my delicious baked goods and he shall forgive me!

Hee, yes, please!

[Primal Slayer]

 

Wow, Oliver's already done trying with Digg?  In the third episode?  I do not agree with your decision, Oliver.  And here you and I were doing so well this season!

It is kind of surprising that they have Oliver already over it and tired of trying. Of course we haven't actually seen him try to ease things over with him at all (go figure) but I guess we'll see it at the beginning of this episode. 

 

It's cool that they have Thea going on her own accord but they should have written that in there in the last episode since she didn't seem like she was interested in going to her father to get answers. That entire last scene should've been re-written.

[Ann Mack]

Did anyone else catch how Wendy is making it seem like it was some what Thea's idea to go back to Nanda Parbat and get answers. IIRC she didn't want to go any where near any hot tubs of any kind. Some how I feel the EPs are already trying to wiggle their way out of the majority of backlash they probably saw last week in regards to Laurel digging up Sara so she could resurrect her and using Thea's condition as a means of manipulating the situation to get what she wanted. 

 

Any who really excited for the scene where Felicity is using her loud voice and I swear Diggle storming out with that gun tucked in the back of his waistband is sexy AF he needs to storm out more often. Each episode involving OTA/Olicity seems to keep getting better and better. That clip has me even more excited for Wednesday and my OTA3 in action.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Ann Mack

[KirkB]

It's a no lose situation for Malcolm really. If the pit doesn't work for some reason, oh well, he gets the credit for letting them try. If Sara comes back wrong and needs to be put down he can always get Nyssa or Laurel to do it, which makes them feel bad while he points out how he warned them. Even if everything works perfectly there is little chance Sara would stay around and Nyssa would more than likely go with her, which rids him and the League of two potential problems. Really, no matter how this works out Malcolm is coming out ahead. As usual.

[lexicon]

Oh I definitely picked up on that but too late Wendy. Of course this also means that it's going to go exactly as I feared, with little to no repercussions for LL. Instead it'll be played like Thea went for her own purpose and of her own volition while Ll just tagged along with her dead sister in tow. 

[Primal Slayer]

It's a shame that we can't get more Nyssa because seeing her power struggle with Merlyn would be such a fun storyline to explore for an episode. If we are going to continue to see the LoA, they need to develop them beyond just two people. There has to be some that would want to see Nyssa in charge.

[Ann Mack]

Oh I definitely picked up on that but too late Wendy. Of course this also means that it's going to go exactly as I feared, with little to no repercussions for LL. Instead it'll be played like Thea went for her own purpose and of her own volition while Ll just tagged along with her dead sister in tow. 

This very much pisses me off. If that was the way they wanted it to be then that is the way they should have wrote the script. Just because this season is dealing with mysticism and magic I hope they don't think they can try some mind melding, slight of hand, Jedi tricks on the audience and make them forget what they saw and heard (yes the nerd in me is breaking out Star Trek and Star Wars). So they are setting this up for the sympathy route for Laurel and I call bullshit. Her ass knows exactly what she's doing but she has yet to say why especially knowing the side effects.

 

All that to say this: Thea DID NOT say she wanted to go to Nanda Parbat she thought she was going on a relaxing spa vacay not a digging expedition to retrieve Sara's bones and dip them in the springy reviving frog waters at Ra's Al Ghul place at the League Of Assassins but whatever show y'all keep writing her dumb and then try to make up it later at other characters expense but we know better.

[Sunshine]

Does Oliver take a bullet for Diggle before this scene or after it?  I am thinking the scene with drinks is after this one.  Perhaps the confrontation with Double Down leads to some thawing out on Diggle's part.

[Freckles101]

I read this interview with Katrina Law (which is great BTW - I love the bits about how she was cast) and she says that she's gonna be "in and out of Arrow throughout this season" but can't say whether or not she's gonna show up in LOT yet. Although it is suspicious that Katrina hasn't filmed since 4x03, I really don't believe that the writers would kill Nyssa. It seems like that would be TOO much baggage for Sara to bring with her to LOT, and how would Sara ever be okay with Laurel resurrecting her if Nyssa died as a result?

Edited October 19, 2015 by Freckles101

[Angel12d]

Haven't watched the preview, going on comments here. If Thea was going to NP of her own accord, then they should have showed that. IMO, that didn't happen at all. If they wanted us to think that, Thea should have been the one to suggest it. She didn't. Laurel made the decision and dragged Thea into afterwards. Now, I accept that Thea might build herself up to wanting and hoping for some answers for herself on the way there but there's no way Thea was going based on her own choice. Nope. Sorry.

 

This is gonna work out exactly as I thought though. Saint Laurel, never does wrong. Someone polish her halo!

 

 

Isnt that the episode Stephen bit his tongue?

 

 

I think it is. I was just about to say his tongue looks kind of weird in that gif. Haha, we're gonna laugh so hard. I wonder if they let him record his voice to add in later.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Angel12d

[apinknightmare]

Wow, Oliver's already done trying with Digg?  In the third episode?  I do not agree with your decision, Oliver.  And here you and I were doing so well this season!

 

By being "done waiting for him to come around," I wonder if he's going to pull a Laurel and stop being kind of passive with the apologies - that he's going to have it out with Digg in the hopes that they can move past it?

Edited October 19, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Angel12d]

Oh, also, I don't like that Oliver's done with waiting for Diggle to come around. He hasn't even tried, at least we've not seen it. Stop telling us and start showing us these things, show! Grrrrrrr.

[Chaser]

SAs tongue looked swollen in the gif with Curtis from 4x06 too. I wonder if those scenes were filmed out of order.

I can't with any bonding between Thea and Malcolm. He is the reason for EVERYTHING.

[apinknightmare]

Oh, also, I don't like that Oliver's done with waiting for Diggle to come around. He hasn't even tried, at least we've not seen it. Stop telling us and start showing us these things, show! Grrrrrrr.

 

It seems like I'm in the minority, but I didn't get that Oliver was giving up on Diggle at all? Just that he wasn't going to wait around for Diggle to forgive him and was going to confront him about it?

[Balaclava]

This very much pisses me off. If that was the way they wanted it to be then that is the way they should have wrote the script. Just because this season is dealing with mysticism and magic I hope they don't think they can try some mind melding, slight of hand, Jedi tricks on the audience and make them forget what they saw and heard (yes the nerd in me is breaking out Star Trek and Star Wars). So they are setting this up for the sympathy route for Laurel and I call bullshit. Her ass knows exactly what she's doing but she has yet to say why especially knowing the side effects.

 

All that to say this: Thea DID NOT say she wanted to go to Nanda Parbat she thought she was going on a relaxing spa vacay not a digging expedition to retrieve Sara's bones and dip them in the springy reviving frog waters at Ra's Al Ghul place at the League Of Assassins but whatever show y'all keep writing her dumb and then try to make up it later at other characters expense but we know better.

 

And i'm still wondering if the worst part is not yet to come after Sara is resurrected, i'm wondering how QL is gonna find out about this (not that i care, i'm done with him) how Oliver, Diggle and Felicity are going to find out about all this? Is Laurel and Thea going to tell them or will the lies go on? Tbh i think we're about to see so much worst in the next eps 

[apinknightmare]

And i'm still wondering if the worst part is not yet to come after Sara is resurrected, i'm wondering how QL is gonna find out about this (not that i care, i'm done with him) how Oliver, Diggle and Felicity are going to find out about all this? Is Laurel and Thea going to tell them or will the lies go on? Tbh i think we're about to see so much worst in the next eps 

 

I hope she just shows up all, "I'm back, bitches!" 

 

And then Quentin has a heart attack and dies for real. 

[Ann Mack]

It seems like I'm in the minority, but I didn't get that Oliver was giving up on Diggle at all? Just that he wasn't going to wait around for Diggle to forgive him and was going to confront him about it?

I'm with you. I don't think Oliver is giving up I think he's tired of his current approaches that has failed and is going to take it up a notch to demonstrate to Diggle that he truly is sorry for what he did and wants to make amends. Hey they're brothers they'll be back to ride or die soon enough hopefully this episode or the next.

[Primal Slayer]

There won't be any long term secrets between L/T and the rest of the team. With Constantine coming in 3x05, Laurel/Thea must come back towards the end of 3x04. Laurel explains what she has done, Oliver gets pissed, Laurel asks/wishses for some kind of solution, Oliver opens up his rolodex and suddenly remembers his supernatural friend that he placed in the mystic section that he keeps skipping over.

[Angel12d]

It seems like I'm in the minority, but I didn't get that Oliver was giving up on Diggle at all? Just that he wasn't going to wait around for Diggle to forgive him and was going to confront him about it?

 

Oh okay. I'm just basing this from comments here. I didn't watch the preview. I just really hope it's not like it sounds. I hope he confronts him about it. He needs to be proactive about it because Diggle is not going to make the first move.

[Primal Slayer]

I'm with you. I don't think Oliver is giving up I think he's tired of his current approaches that has failed and is going to take it up a notch to demonstrate to Diggle that he truly is sorry for what he did and wants to make amends. Hey they're brothers they'll be back to ride or die soon enough hopefully this episode or the next.

Didn't quote fast enough.

 

I think Oliver will be done trying to make amends but Felicity will step in and act as couples counselor between the two.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Primal Slayer

[SmallScreenDiva]

I don't think Oliver is really "giving up" on Digg. I think it's more like I gave him space, I tried to go the gentle route, I'll be a bit more insistent? I try not to get to worked up over previews, just because everything is so out of context. I am laughing though watching Oliver try to calm Felicity down. I really do want to know what he's mouthing. 

Edited October 19, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[AyChihuahua]

By being "done waiting for him to come around," I wonder if he's going to pull a Laurel and stop being kind of passive with the apologies - that he's going to have it out with Digg in the hopes that they can move past it?

They're boys, they should just beat each other up for awhile, have a few beers and some nachos, and then play Super Mario Kart for a couple hours.  Friendship repaired!

 

Re Nyssa, it's not as if Katrina Law can just say "Hey, I won't be around after 4.03 because they're totally killing off Nyssa."  For big deaths they probably have non-disclosure agreements....but even if not, actors would try not to spill to avoid gaining a reputation.  Also, a lot of these guys are liars.  I mean, I get it (except for Guggie, who is just foul), but the EPs made a big deal of locking in Caity Lotz for four episodes in S3, and post-3.09 Stephen Amell answered every question re Oliver with "Who knows, since he's dead and all."  I mean, I ain't mad at 'em, but they will totally lie to keep story points under wraps.  (I get it, but personally I would prefer a "no comment" to an actual lie, but I'm generally creeped out by people who can easily lie.)

 

Oh, re Oliver and Digg, I'd like it much better if Oliver meant he's going to confront Digg, rather than just say eff it.  I will be upset with him if he's at eff it already.

Edited October 19, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[apinknightmare]

Oh okay. I'm just basing this from comments here. I didn't watch the preview. I just really hope it's not like it sounds. I hope he confronts him about it. He needs to be proactive about it because Diggle is not going to make the first move.

 

Oliver actually said that he was "done waiting for him to come around," which to me sounds like he's going to stop waiting and actually do something about it. I could be wrong. 

Edited October 19, 2015 by apinknightmare

[AyChihuahua]

Oliver actually said that he was "done waiting for him to come around," which to me sounds like he's going to stop waiting and actually do something about it. I could be wrong. 

I hope you're right.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I really don't think they're killing Nyssa. I don't know why, but after the brouhaha over Sara's death and the fridging of female characters, I really doubt they're gonna kill her. Maybe I'm just naive. 

Edited October 19, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[Ann Mack]

This they have a resurrection story happening and CW_Arrow and Wendy are talking more about Oliver and Diggle coming to a boiling point. Laurel keeps getting leftover love. I ain't even mad these 2 matter more to me than what they have Laurel doing this episode any way.

 

https://twitter.com/CW_Arrow/status/656229265524965376

 

https://twitter.com/MericlesHappen/status/656240183994544128

[Angel12d]

Oliver actually said that he was "done waiting for him to come around," which to me sounds like he's going to stop waiting and actually do something about it. I could be wrong. 

 

I think you might be right. Fingers crossed! 

[tarotx]

Neal is suck a talker-LOL

 

http://www.eonline.com/news/706614/neal-mcdonough-arrow-s-new-big-bad-teases-death-destruction-damien-darhk-s-dictatorship-in-season-4

[kismet]

Oliver: I'm done waiting for him to come around. This needs to be dealt with now!

Felicity: how? ... You're bringing out the slow cooker, aren't you?

Oliver: By God, I am. There will be food and desserts aplenty. Dig's heart and stomach shall be wrapped in my delicious baked goods and he shall forgive me!

My grandma always said the way to a man's heart is through his stomach! :)

[Starfish35]

Oliver actually said that he was "done waiting for him to come around," which to me sounds like he's going to stop waiting and actually do something about it. I could be wrong.

That's what it sounded like to me too.