Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Happy Harpy]

I'm curious about the circumstances under which Laurel wants Sara back.

Imo, they'll be as half-assed as the circumstances of Sara's death -which for me ruined Malcolm in the process, two birds with one stone if I can say so.

It isn't as if the writers tried hard to make any sense out of it, imo not hiding the fact that she died solely in order to give her place to Laurel. So I, for one, see Sara's comeback as an admission that Laurel as the BC doesn't work as well as TPTB thought, and as damage control for the (justified, imo) backlash against the "jacket thief". After they freaking fridged Sara and treated her more like a ghost impeding Laurel's destineeeee than like her inspiration imo, I know I'm going to have trouble to see beyond those BTS reason and buy the in-universe "reasoning".

 

I'm so glad for CL that she goes to LoT, although I don't plan to watch it and I'll miss her, since finally her (infinitely superior imo) character might stop to be used only to service Laurel's storylines and will have the opportunity to shine as the real Canary of the Arrow universe.

 

Does Arrow want to take the Sleepy Hollow route, with a LI in the flashbacks? Bad, bad audience that won't let the main male character change women like he changes socks or shirts. Is the solution this new kind of cheating by proxy? [sarcasm/]Let's see how well this works.[/sarcasm]

 

Is it me or does this just sound like another round of oh nooooos  Moonlighting Curse!? 

 

I'd be TPTB, I'd fear the Moonlighting fatigue, viewers leaving in droves because they've had enough of waiting for any kind of lasting payoff, and not the so-called Moonlighting curse. I know that O/F are supposed to be together and happy in the present, but no matter the timeline in-universe, it won't change anything to the fact that the viewers will see Oliver with two different women at the same time. After a frustrating S3, I'm not sure it's the best option.

I know it could be another Shado, but Shado/Oliver was romantically a mistake for me, and the track record with new characters in general and LI in particular being rather appalling for S3, I'm not too optimistic.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[Sakura12]

I do find it hilarious that Sara was killed to make Laurel BC, now Laurel is probably being used to bring Sara back to life.  

[EmilyBettFan]

I don't even know how she would be used to bring Sara back. Is she going to dig up the grave?

[kismet]

I do find it hilarious that Sara was killed to make Laurel BC, now Laurel is probably being used to bring Sara back to life.  

Its called karma or poetic justice :)

 

I don't even know how she would be used to bring Sara back. Is she going to dig up the grave?

Do they have fingerless work gloves?? :)

[tarotx]

I feel the audience isn't stupid and will grasp that the contrasting love interests. Oliver is a man whore and it's his relationship with Felicity that changed that. For now any way. In a lot of ways I feel that Arrow has divided up the Dinah comic character among Laural, Sara and Felicity. Felicity has the fern/florist nod, saving Oliver, running off with him to a new city as well as helping him not be as much a womanizer.

[AyChihuahua]

I don't think he's been that much of a womanizer since the island. Six women in three years is probably below average for a man in his late 20s, and he was in relationships/had feelings for all but Isabel.

[kismet]

Hmm yeah I guess it's probably unlikely. :( Ah well.

ETA: well maybe they just want it to be a major OMG moment when it's suddenly "Dad!" And Double Down with the playing cards connection.......... Ok ok I'll admit it - I just really want JR Bourne to be playing her dad. :( *sigh* Oh well.

I'm still hoping for an Alias or Scandal like cliffhanger moment at the finale. That "Mom??" no real visual as to who she's talking to & end season was still one of the best non-violent cliffhangers I watched. Same thing on Scandal finale in the limo when Olivia was like "Dad?" after setting up the entire season with this random bad guy that in one moment everything made absolutely every sense & completely blew the whole story up.

 

That's what I want for FS ~ a big moment that leads into a big arc. That gives her the story meat & screen time that she deserves.

[NumberCruncher]

Was just thinking about how must better it would have been had they completely skipped the lame triangle storyline last season and instead used this flashback fling this season to create the will-they-or-won't-they drama between Oliver and Felicity with Oliver choosing not to be with her because of what happened in the past and the two of them learning how to overcome it and be together. Added bonus--no Ray or at least a much, much less creepy version of him.

I've also been thinking more about how they're going to handle this mystery woman and I just don't foresee them spending a bunch of time showing romantic scenes between her and Oliver. It just doesn't make sense from a narrative perspective since it would undermine Olicity in the present day. My bet is that they for sure let the audience know that it was a real relationship but spend most of the time on whatever peripheral shit goes down between them.

[dtissagirl]

They can barely develop relationships with the 75% of screen time present time gets, just trying to imagine any in-depth exploration of a flashback relationship is giving me the giggles.

[Velocity23]

https://tvline.com/2015/08/11/arrow-season-4-preview-oliver-felicity-flashbacks/

 

Arrow EP Addresses Our Concerns About Workplace Romance, Felicity's Spark and Season 4 Flashbacks

Edited August 11, 2015 by Velocity23

[dtissagirl]

From that article:
 

As a result, the Season 4 flashbacks, which kick off in Coast City but then head to places unknown, have Guggenheim “really happy.” Raved the EP, “I feel like we have our best flashback story ever.”

♫♪ Back to the USSR. You don't know how lucky you are, boy. ♫♪

[Velocity23]

Matt Ryan will reprise his role as Constantine on Arrow

https://twitter.com/JarettSays/status/631209397159460864

[apinknightmare]

Matt Ryan will reprise his role as Constantine on Arrow

https://twitter.com/JarettSays/status/631209397159460864

 

Happy for Constantine fans, but hopefully it's just for one ep.

[Starfish35]

I'm just going to say it. Ugh. :( there's a reason I didn't watch Constantine in the first place. I am not even remotely interested in the magic side of the comics, but I'd resigned myself to that. But now demons and demon hunting? No, that is not what I signed up for here at all. Ugh.

Sorry. I won't continue to grump about it I promise, since I'm sure there are others that are excited about it. I just needed a brief rant. :(

[dtissagirl]

Apparently Pedowitz called it "a great one-shot episode", so I'm gonna concentrate on the "one-shot" part:

 

https://twitter.com/thesurfreport/statuses/631210928206315525

 

The magic/mysticism aspect that they're bringing in fits with having Constantine appear, at least.

[Morrigan2575]

Considering everyone figured Oliver would head to Russia at the end of S3 I have no idea why they're treating this like some huge spoiler. Unless it's not actually Russia and he goes somewhere super special...

Edited August 11, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Starfish35]

Yes I will focus on the "one shot" part - thank you. :)

[dtissagirl]

Considering everyone figured Oliver would head to Russia at the end of S3 I have no idea why they're treating this like some huge spoiler. Unless it's not actually Russia and he goes somewhere super special...

 

Maybe they'll be hopping a few different locations before Russia? I mean, we're all just assuming Russia because he speaks the language, but maybe it's somewhere else the Bratva is operating.

 

 

I'm gonna be cautiously optimistic about Constantine, because he can serve a purpose as someone who knows a shit ton about magic and mysticism and Lazarus Pits. So instead of hiring some rando to play an expositional part, they can bring in an Easter Egg and be all winky and shit.

Edited August 11, 2015 by dtissagirl

[apinknightmare]

Maybe they'll be hopping a few different locations before Russia? I mean, we're all just assuming Russia because he speaks the language, but maybe it's somewhere else the Bratva is operating.

 

Fingers crossed it's an island location that requires shirtlessness. 

[Morrigan2575]

I'm just going to say it. Ugh. :( there's a reason I didn't watch Constantine in the first place. I am not even remotely interested in the magic side of the comics, but I'd resigned myself to that. But now demons and demon hunting? No, that is not what I signed up for here at all. Ugh.

Sorry. I won't continue to grump about it I promise, since I'm sure there are others that are excited about it. I just needed a brief rant. :(

You know I loved Constantine and the world they created and while a part of me is happy to see him again I'm not thrilled that Arrow is going the magic/demon route. I know it's odd since I loved Constantine and love Supernatural and both deal with magic, demons, monsters and angels but I loved realistic (ish) Arrow. I never wanted powers, magic, aliens etc, ah well nothing to do about it just pick and choose what episodes are worth my time

[Velocity23]

Matt Ryan response

https://twitter.com/mattryanreal/status/631211617859059712

[tarotx]

Magic and Demons can fit a realistic aspect. I wonder if his apearance will be in the flashbacks or present

[catrox14]

Well this is gonna be awkward.  I am seriously wondering if they are going to make Castiel lose his wardrobe which has long been an homage to Constantine because both on the same network.  AND they both air on the same night.

 

Sorry I don't mean to belabor this but this is really chapping my SPN loving hide. Sorry

 

YES I know Constantine came first, and SPN acknowledges this.

Edited August 11, 2015 by catrox14

[tarotx]

Constantine is DC. What is Supernatural based on? It's story is original to the show?

[NumberCruncher]

I'm happy about the Constantine news. I get that some people didn't like the show, but that's the beauty of it taking place on Arrow because you get the character without all of the old show baggage. I personally think it will be fun to see such an irreverent, snarky guy like John Constantine interact with Team Arrow. I have a feeling we're in for some classic character interactions.

[catrox14]

Constantine is DC. What is Supernatural based on? It's story is original to the show?

 

Supernatural is it's own thing. It's built it's own mythology based on urban legends, Judeo-Christian lore, other religious lore, angels, demons etc but it's own universe.   That said, SPN has long acknowledged the character of Castiel is an homage to Constantine. He dresses similarly.  It's not the same character by any means but on the superficial level they look the same. 

[calliope1975]

I liked Matt Ryan on Constantine, too, though the show could have been better. 

[Starfish35]

I'm gonna be cautiously optimistic about Constantine, because he can serve a purpose as someone who knows a shit ton about magic and mysticism and Lazarus Pits. So instead of hiring some rando to play an expositional part, they can bring in an Easter Egg and be all winky and shit.

That is probably best case scenario for me. No demons, just a supernatural expert.

[Velocity23]

Constantine will appear in episode 5. Called the Haunted.

https://twitter.com/JarettSays/status/631220281487462400

Edited August 11, 2015 by Velocity23

[catrox14]

Have they crossed Constantine with Arrow or any of the other DC characters before in the comics?

[tarotx]

So Constantine is the he's coming he...

[AyChihuahua]

Constantine will appear in episode 5. Called the Haunted.

https://twitter.com/JarettSays/status/631220281487462400

I think he's going to have to exorcise either Thea or Sara. He was a pretty big dick with a major case of smartmouth (IMO in a funny way) in his show, so honestly seeing him interact with Oliver, etc., (PLEASE INTERACT WITH OLIVER) could be awesome.

[quarks]

Let's see if I have this right:

 

Episode 1: Green Arrow. Oliver/Felicity return to Starling. Things blow up.

 

Episode 2: The Candidate. The why would anyone want to be mayor of this city plotline starts up.  Possibly Mr. Terrific's first appearance. Things blow up.

 

Episode 3: Restoration. Hello, Lazarus Pits. The Lance Family Drama blows up.

 

Episode 4: Beyond Redemption.  Fans ask why Malcolm hasn't blown up. Other things blow up.

 

Episode 5: Haunted. Constantine appears on Arrow. Supernatural fans grit their teeth. Demons blow up.

[Morrigan2575]

Why would Supernatural fans grit their teeth over Constantine?

Edited August 11, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[kismet]

SA seemed really into saving Constantine the show & getting him on ARROW. I can only imagine the writers are eager to give him that opportunity. I can't see SA just sitting back and not fighting to have a lot of interaction with Constantine.

 

As for the destination.... part of me wonder if it will just be multiple locations. Perhaps a pleasure cruise... Maybe Oliver becomes a Pirate. Who knows? I'm just excited they realized the FB were not good and needed to be revamped. So fingers crossed we get better FB & MG is not just using his usual hype with no substance.

[Sakura12]

Because he's dressed similar to Castiel. Which I don't see why that makes a difference. Plenty of people have similar tastes in clothing. And it's just clothes.

Are they finally going to check demon possession off their soap opera trope list with Sara and maybe Thea?

Edited August 11, 2015 by Sakura12

[kismet]

Let's see if I have this right:

 

Episode 1: Green Arrow. Oliver/Felicity return to Starling. Things blow up.

 

Episode 2: The Candidate. The why would anyone want to be mayor of this city plotline starts up.  Possibly Mr. Terrific's first appearance. Things blow up.

 

Episode 3: Restoration. Hello, Lazarus Pits. The Lance Family Drama blows up.

 

Episode 4: Beyond Redemption.  Fans ask why Malcolm hasn't blown up. Other things blow up.

 

Episode 5: Haunted. Constantine appears on Arrow. Supernatural fans grit their teeth. Demons blow up.

Let's hope it doesn't all "Blow UP" in the writers face... :) I wanna believe in a better season than last year.

Edited August 11, 2015 by kismet

[apinknightmare]

Let's see if I have this right:

 

Episode 1: Green Arrow. Oliver/Felicity return to Starling. Things blow up.

 

Episode 2: The Candidate. The why would anyone want to be mayor of this city plotline starts up.  Possibly Mr. Terrific's first appearance. Things blow up.

 

Episode 3: Restoration. Hello, Lazarus Pits. The Lance Family Drama blows up.

 

Episode 4: Beyond Redemption.  Fans ask why Malcolm hasn't blown up. Other things blow up.

 

Episode 5: Haunted. Constantine appears on Arrow. Supernatural fans grit their teeth. Demons blow up.

 

Seems like Sara is getting resurrected in Ep 5? 

 

“It’s a great one-shot episode,” CW President Mark Pedowitz said. Following the panel, Pedowitz teased that “a character will get resurrected” during the installment.

 

Unless someone else dies and gets resurrected.

[quarks]

Why would Supernatural fans grit their teeth over Constantine?

 

I was just going off some of the posts here.

[Velocity23]

 

Without spoiling the whole story, Guggenheim hints that the master of the dark arts will factor into the fallout from bringing Sara Lance (Caity Lotz) back to life via the Lazarus Pit. "Unlike Thea, who wasn’t fully dead, the consequences of using the pit on someone as dead as Sara was creates some unforeseen difficulties...and John Constantine is uniquely suited to help our team deal with those."

The news is huge for disciples of the gone-too-soon series, as many hoped the character would find a new home somewhere within DC Comics' growing TV empire. "This is something the fans were clamoring for," agrees Guggenheim, praising DC for being so "magnanimous and generous in giving us this one-time dispensation." In addition, since two share a studio (Warner Bros.), Arrow has been able to secure not just the original actor, but his original outfits, as well. "The trench coat, the tie, the shirt...the whole wardrobe is being taken out for storage and shipped up to Vancouver." John Badham, who was a director on Constantine, is also on board to helm the episode. "He is familiar with Constantine and Matt Ryan, so it’s a wonderful combination," Guggenheim says.

As for how Team Arrow will handle the supernatural situation and Constantine's approach to the occult, Guggenheim offers that Oliver (Stephen Amell) will actually be the one who gets it the most. "If you go back and rewatch Season 3, he refers to having some experience with the mystical. Oliver knows that the world is a larger place than most people think. So the team will have one reaction, but Oliver will have more of an experienced reaction."

And based on how twisted Diggle (David Ramsey) was over The Flash's metahumans, we can only imagine that Starling City's hottest daddy will be freaking out. "Oh yeah," laughs Guggenheim. "Diggle has some choice lines, I will say that!

http://www.tvinsider.com/article/33819/constantines-matt-ryan-conjures-up-magical-return-on-arrow/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=TVGM

[Morrigan2575]

Because he's dressed similar to Castiel. Which I don't see why that makes a difference. Plenty of people have similar tastes in clothing. And it's just clothes.

Are they finally going to check demon possession off their soap opera trope list with Sara and maybe Thea?

That makes no sense. So because SPN ripped off Constantine's look for Castiel SPN fans should be annoyed/upset by Constantine being on Arrow?

I don't get it. I love both shows/characters and see no reason why one should have any impact on the other

[dtissagirl]

I'm now wondering what would happen if fans of ALL THE BILLION THINGS Supernatural ripped off got super duper mad AT SPN. Those would be huge riots.

 

...

 

Back to spoilers. So Pedowitz said someone gets resurrected in 405, and Guggie says Constantine is gonna help out deal with resurrected!Sara. Does someone ELSE get LPed? Did the Pedowitz quote got garbled? Stop zombifying people, Arrow, that show is called iZombie.

Edited August 11, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Morrigan2575]

I'm now wondering what would happen if fans of ALL THE BILLION THINGS Supernatural ripped off got super duper mad AT SPN. Those would be huge riots.

...

I'm sure Columbo is ready to kick both Constantine and Castiel asses for ripping off his look (which probably was ripped off of some 40s Gumshoe to begin with

Back to spoilers. So Pedowitz said someone gets resurrected in 405, and Guggie says Constantine is gonna help out deal with resurrected!Sara. Does someone ELSE get LPed? Did the Pedowitz quote got garbled? Stop zombifying people, Arrow, that show is called iZombie.

My money, Sara getting resurrected is the 404/405, cliffhanger. So both are correct Edited August 11, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Sakura12]

Stop zombifying people, Arrow, that show is called iZombie.

 

Next Crossover Event! iZombie is part of the DC verse. 

 

I'm thinking they resurrect Sara and she's crazypants or possessed. Oliver probably met Constantine on Grand Central Island, or China, or Russia or Coast City and gets him to help. Or he gets a sense about the dead rising in Star(ling) City and comes to investigate.  

[calliope1975]

I'm thinking they resurrect Sara and she's crazypants or possessed. Oliver probably met Constantine on Grand Central Island, or China, or Russia or Coast City and gets him to help. Or he gets a sense about the dead rising in Star(ling) City and comes to investigate.  

 

As I've learned from every horror movie ever, dead things should stay dead. They always come back evil or not alone. I hope Constantine performs an exorcism; he's pretty good at those.

[dtissagirl]

Next Crossover Event! iZombie is part of the DC verse.

 

Star City and Seattle are in the same place, even. Alternate realities collide, Oliver and Liv meet and compare and contrast first names and tragic stories.

[Angel12d]

I don't know much about Constantine but as long as he fits seamlessly in the episode and it doesn't seem forced, I'm fine with it.

 

But I am having a real issue with the sheer amount of guest stars this season has. It's like Special Guest Stars featuring Arrow. Grrrrr. 

[catrox14]

 

Episode 5: Haunted. Constantine appears on Arrow. Supernatural fans grit their teeth. Demons blow up.

 

Just this particular fan.  I don't speak for the entire fandom. And I have acknowledged twice that Castiel is an homage to Constatine.

 

 

I'm now wondering what would happen if fans of ALL THE BILLION THINGS Supernatural ripped off got super duper mad AT SPN. Those would be huge riots.

 

I'm the only person who has commented about this. Supernatural has ALWAYS said that it's paying homage to horror tropes and has built it's own mythology and universe by how it handles those things. I never said anything about riots or whatever.

 

Boy has my comment gotten twisted out of proportion. 

Edited August 11, 2015 by catrox14

[NumberCruncher]

Isn't episode 4 (i.e the redemption ep) the one that Stephen was all "Meh." about? Now I'm really curious why that is.

Edited August 11, 2015 by NumberCruncher

[dtissagirl]

Most shows have 2-3 guest stars per episode. Procedurals usually have even more, if they need to go through multiple suspects before solving the case of the week. I think it's just that 1. Arrow goes after cult-favorite talent on purpose, which turns into them announcing every single one of their guest stars, because it generates free buzz; and 2. this is a fandom of stalkers who find the day players and the minor guests on social media, so it all adds up.

 

I don't think the problem was ever too many guests stars. They need to populate the show somehow, I mean, S3 looked like 17 people total lived in SC. The problem is they sometimes suck at balancing the amount of storyline for guests vs. the regulars. But this season they don't have to sell a spin-off, nor tell any greater origin story [except maybe Mr Terrific], so. Cautiously optimistic.

 

Also, and this is something fandom never thinks of -- regular cast of every tv show ever asks for less screen time as the seasons go on. No, really. 14 hour shoots 5 days a week ending on a Fraturday are unsustainable. Every single actor is gonna go to the producers and ask if they can get a day or two off in the near future, pretty please. And the golden rule is you don't fill that void by overworking another regular -- you bring someone else in.