Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Soulfire]

I'm a little thrown by this. I find Oliver getting a love interest in the flashbacks completely and utterly unnecessary. The show already established he was a complete jerk in the past. I'm not interested in watching Oliver with other women. While I'm well aware it's too early in the stages to make such assumptions - as well as that Guggenheim's probably off cackling somewhere - but I really do feel it's unnecessary and, instead of contrasting, might end up taking away from his relationship with Felicity in the present.

 

But I probably have nothing to worry about.

 

We really need that season 4 trailer soon...

Edited August 10, 2015 by Soulfire

[Morrigan2575]

I'm a little thrown by this. I find Oliver getting a love interest in the flashbacks completely and utterly unnecessary. The show already established he was a complete jerk in the past. While I'm well aware it's too early in the stages to make such assumptions - as well as that Guggenheim's probably off cackling somewhere - but I really do feel it's unnecessary and, instead of contrasting, might end up taking away from his relationship with Felicity in the present.

But I probably have nothing to worry about.

We really need that season 4 trailer soon...

I cackling myself but probably not for the same reason you're suggesting

[apinknightmare]

I cackling myself but probably not for the same reason you're suggesting

 

He's still got that picture somewhere. Stuck to the bottom of something, probably. 

[Velocity23]

So another sidepiece while he was so in love with LL.

[AyChihuahua]

Wait, I thought Oliver spent five years longing for Laurel?

I wonder if they would have had him sleep with Shado if they hadn't decided to kill L/O.

[Morrigan2575]

He's still got that picture somewhere. Stuck to the bottom of something, probably.

The length that they're going to is both hysterical and amazing to watch. I'm really not sure what else they could do except to have Oliver sleep with Dinah.

I wonder if they would have had him sleep with Shado if they hadn't decided to kill L/O.

It's an interesting question. I mean there's "comics" to support an Oliver/Shado relationship of some kind. However, I think if O/L worked they might have gone more comics with Oliver/Shado sex happening while Oliver was drugged/sick/drunk etc. Edited August 10, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[AyChihuahua]

Who wants to bet she'll show up in the present?

[apinknightmare]

Who wants to bet she'll show up in the present?

 

If she's not killed tragically in the past, the chances are high.

[Soulfire]

I cackling myself but probably not for the same reason you're suggesting

 

I'm a living example of WHY Gugg's is cackling. ;)

[steeledwithakiss]

Remember when Tommy thought Oliver hadn't gotten laid in 5 years? Good times. The way Oliver reacted I always thought he had various relationships while away. I just don't think, given the way he was haunted by Shado's death, they are going to repeat the "she died because of me" theme. However knowing Oliver he probably cared for that woman too, because in s1 it looked like he fell for every girl he dated.

 

Anyway, I'm not sure I like MG's idea to use that past relationship to contrast with the one with Felicity because I'm afraid they won't resist cutting from a loving scene of F/O in bed to a purely sexual scene in bed with Oliver and that woman. That's just not something I want to see.

[Guest]

Bahahaha. I find it kind of hilarious that Oliver has yet another love interest in the flashbacks. BUT HE PINED SO HARD FOR LAUREL. Haha. Sorry!

 

I kind of expected this though. I never expected Oliver to be celibate in the flashbacks, so I'm not surprised. Just not sure what they could be paralleling to O/F. As long as it doesn't take away from O/F in the present, I really don't care. 

 

I bet she shows up in present day though. If she's not dead, that is. LOL.

[Morrigan2575]

I never thought he'd be celibate but I always figured he'd have dalliances not a season long relationship. Basically IMO, if O/L worked Oliver would have sex with guest stars who had no real relevance to Oliver, the show or the audience. All the while showing Oliver holding onto Laurel to get through the emptiness of his life.

[apinknightmare]

The only thing that concerns me is that MG said that this relationship serves as a "parallel or potentially a contrast" with his relationship with Felicity. Do not want bad things. Not at all, not even a little. No.

[Guest]

We're reaching the part of the flashbacks where Oliver goes really dark, I'm assuming. So I can't really see how any relationship he has will be a good thing, if that makes sense? Whatever happens is not going to save him from his darkness, is it?

 

I'm not saying his relationship with Felicity will be fluffy happy perfect all the time. That's not realistic at all. But I can see them using a relationship in the past to solidify the one in the present. Or they could mess it up. It's a toss up really. Haha. 

[wonderwall]

I never thought the show could kill L/O even more, but I was so wrong :p I am amused. 

 

But I think that this could be good for Oliver/Felicity in the long run just as long as they use that relationship to show just how good Felicity is for Oliver. 

[Guest]

I never thought the show could kill L/O even more, but I was so wrong :p I am amused. 

 

 

One day flashback Oliver is going to find his crumpled picture of Laurel and be like 'Who dis? Oh yeah.' Hahaha. I shouldn't laugh but omg.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Guest

[NumberCruncher]

I'm not saying his relationship with Felicity will be fluffy happy perfect all the time. That's not realistic at all. But I can see them using a relationship in the past to solidify the one in the present. Or they could mess it up. It's a toss up really. Haha.

Yeah, I think this is what they're going for. My guess is that the flashback girlfriend ends up doing something horrible either to Oliver or someone he cares for which causes the relationship to end badly and that will be the contrast to his relationship with Felicity in the current.

[AyChihuahua]

One day flashback Oliver is going to find his crumpled picture of Laurel and be like 'Who dis? Oh yeah.' Hahaha. I shouldn't laugh but omg.

Just died laughing.

[Guest]

Yeah, I think this is what they're going for. My guess is that the flashback girlfriend ends up doing something horrible either to Oliver or someone he cares for which causes the relationship to end badly and that will be the contrast to his relationship with Felicity in the current.

 

Same. My first thought was that she'll betray him and further help turn him into a killer or something. Meanwhile, Felicity is the complete opposite of that. I don't know. Maybe that's too positive considering this is Arrow but it wouldn't surprise me.

[DrSpaceman10]

I don't see the point of introducing a love interest for Oliver in the flashbacks, I mean he's dated/slept with/married every single woman not related to him under the age of 30 on the show. Maybe they're trying to appease both Olicity and non-Olicity fans? I definitely wouldn't put it past the writers to find a way to have Oliver date this woman in the present too (if history is any indication). 

 

I don't think this will work well as a compare/contrast type of thing, especially if they transition from a romantic scene in present day to a romantic scene in the past.

[NumberCruncher]

Same. My first thought was that she'll betray him and further help turn him into a killer or something. Meanwhile, Felicity is the complete opposite of that. I don't know. Maybe that's too positive considering this is Arrow but it wouldn't surprise me.

I'm with you on being very cautiously optimistic because this is Arrow, after all. ;)

I don't know--call me a complete fool but I just don't foresee them yet again using trope of having a woman Oliver loves die because of his actions. Let's see...Sara (multiple times), Shado, Moira, and Thea (at least temporarily). That has been done to death. I know these writers aren't fabulous, but I would think even they aren't that stupid.

[catrox14]

What. The. Actual. Fuck show.  Seriously? another love interest for Oliver in the past.   Absurd. 

[Morrigan2575]

I'm with you on being very cautiously optimistic because this is Arrow, after all. ;)

I don't know--call me a complete fool but I just don't foresee them yet again using trope of having a woman Oliver loves die because of his actions. Let's see...Sara (multiple times), Shado, Moira, and Thea (at least temporarily). That has been done to death. I know these writers aren't fabulous, but I would think even they aren't that stupid.

Aww but fridging has worked so well for them in the past.

[wonderwall]

I'm pretty sure she's going to turn out to be evil... I can just feel it

[Chaser]

I don't like it. Mostly because I don't want to watch Oliver sexing it up with another woman when I could be watching him with Felicity. And I don't want to watch him have a meaningful relationship when we finally get to see him with Felicity. 

 

I hope that this isn't a season long thing parallel/contrast thing. That sounds like a bad idea. It's a version of a long triangle. So done.

 

That being said. I'm totally petty and I did laugh at the implications of Oliver and Laurel.

[dtissagirl]

I'm pretty sure she's going to turn out to be evil... I can just feel it

This was my first thought too.

[quarks]

The complete failure to mention this love interest prior to this season does seem to suggest that this ended badly. He dreamt of Shado, not whoever this is, in "Three Ghosts."

 

ETA: Granted, Shado ended badly too. Maybe I should stop assuming things.

Edited August 11, 2015 by quarks

[apinknightmare]

This was my first thought too.

 

Fingers crossed, that would be awesome.

[Guest]

I'm pretty sure she's going to turn out to be evil... I can just feel it

 

Same. I can see them having a little flirty flirt, kiss, sexy times, she'll lull him into a false sense of security and he might start to trust her and then BAM. She'll betray him. He's on a darker path, whatever happens.

[kismet]

Didnt Wendy talk about strong female villains at SDCC. I could imagine Rutina playing a villain.

This is where I see her strength. She killed it in TrueBlood.  Especially when they made her mad/crazy at points. I can see her pretty convincingly playing a villain. I can see her playing off of Neal McDonald. I hope they do not waste her. I think she is worth the cost... but there does seem to be some cast bloating going on. Unless some of these are only one on/one off and therefore not as expensive. But I hope she is not one of those only 1 episode characters.

[statsgirl]

Didn't JB comment at a con that they recently (over the summer) signed a new contract? Maybe he's doing less then 18 episodes of Arrow S4 which freed up money?

He tweeted that he's going to be a regular next season.  Maybe they weren't sure about how s3 was going to go and so signed him for only that one season.

 

 

Remember when Tommy thought Oliver hadn't gotten laid in 5 years? Good times.

LOL, I bet Oliver got laid more than Tommy did during those five years.

 

So far, every one of Oliver's love interests has been good except for Isabel.  I'd be interested in seeing a story where one pulls him further down the dark path. But as a recurring character contrasting to Felicity?  No thanks.

 

ETA:  to the question of who had been cast so far for Arrow.  Courtesy of TVAfterDark:

 

Young, Wesley and Rotaru joins previously announced actors Neal McDonough as Damien Darhk (the big bad of season 4), Echo Kellum as Curtis Holt a.k.a. Mr. Terrific, Alexander Calvert as Lonnie Machin a.k.a Anarky, Jimmy Akingbola as Baron Reiter, JR Bourne as Double Down, Jeri Ryan as Jessica Danforth as well as the DC’s Legends of Tomorrow actors Falk Hentschel as Carter Hall a.k.a. Hawkman and Casper Crump as Vandal Savage that will be introduced in the next Arrow/The Flash crossover before they head over to the new series in 2016.

Edited August 11, 2015 by statsgirl

[Morrigan2575]

He tweeted that he's going to be a regular next season. Maybe they weren't sure about how s3 was going to go and so signed him for only that one season.

I can't be be bothered to track it down but I'm pretty sure he commented about a new contract at some event because it resulted in a renewed round of "this totally means MM is the Floater" discussion.

[kismet]

Possibly. I was just looking forward to watching Oliver getting to the point where he was in the pilot, all cold and detached. It seemed like we were getting to the point where we were gonna get that when he was cutting off Shrieve's fingers and whatnot. That kind of dude doesn't date. Hopefully this chick is involved in the Bratva or Shadowspire somehow and it's at least interesting.

I'm okay with him having a LI in the FB. I can't really see him as celibate for 5 yrs, but you gotta feel bad for LL, we all were supposed to think that he pined for her for 5yrs, when really he had multiple relationships. Here's hoping she is more morally grey or dubious. It would be nice to see OQ have a darker relationship, perhaps its both of them spying/using each other.

 

Sadly, I was also looking for him going dark, but I think that will be with Bratva & its seems that Bratva has been pushed for Coast City. Here's to s5 i guess... :/

[dtissagirl]

At this point I find the flashbacks so completely superfluous that anything they add to it that makes me *react* in anyway is a bonus. [My usual reaction to flashback scenes is reading Twitter.]

And if I may overanalyze a bit, I find it amusing that Guggie said "parallel", but then amended it to "contrast". That opens up possibilities. Like maybe Oliver is banging a married woman, or something.

[BkWurm1]

Who wants to bet she'll show up in the present?

Yep, totally reading my mind. 

 

IF Oliver isn't just using her, then I expect her to do something to betray him and just to torture us, to have Felicity do something that seems to parallel the same betrayal in the present.  I think I would rather see Oliver just go all evil and heartless....but that is probably year five. 

 

Kind of random, but anyone else really worried about what is going to happen when they run out of their flashbacks?  Pushing that back down to worry about more in the future. 

[Chaser]

I think she is probably going to an encourage him to go dark. Make it easier for him to lose whatever is left of his humanity. I don't (at least I hope) think he is going to fall in love with her or anything. 

 

I just don't want a lot of time spent on it. 

[AyChihuahua]

So far, every one of Oliver's love interests has been good except for Isabel.  I'd be interested in seeing a story where one pulls him further down the dark path. But as a recurring character contrasting to Felicity?  No thanks.

Helena was bad. Not pure evil or anything, but she was fairly bad. And since Oliver is so very easily led by women (seriously, the guy has no backbone when it comes to women, whether the relationships are romantic, sexual, platonic, or familial), she didn't exactly help him find his light.

[DrSpaceman10]

Thinking back on the flashbacks vs. present day, Oliver's never had overlapping love interests. Shado happened, then that mostly ended when she found out about Sara, then Isabel happened in present day, then Sara also happened in present day. So there's never really been a time where he's been dating two different people in flashbacks/present day.

 

I could see the writers breaking O/F up (at least temporarily) around mid-season and ramping up the romance in the flashbacks at the same time. Who knows what'll end up happening, but I don't think it bodes well for Oliver/Felicity being a stable (ie: not on-again/off-again) couple. 

[kismet]

Wait, I thought Oliver spent five years longing for Laurel?

I wonder if they would have had him sleep with Shado if they hadn't decided to kill L/O.

 

I think they would have. One for Comics, but quality usage in this case (Shado was good for his development). Two it makes sense that he would be drawn to her. And lastly, to set-up the Slade revenge/betrayed BFF.

Who wants to bet she'll show up in the present?

Well, maybe not her. I think she's headed for the fridge. Frankly, I don't want a redo of dead lover/friend as present-day villain. But definitely a twin, long lost sister/cousin will make an appearance. :)

Edited August 11, 2015 by kismet

[dtissagirl]

I still haven't completely given up on them making their way to Russia in the flashbacks this season, and the actress they hired sure looks like she could pass for Eastern European? Maybe this is Oliver's Russian bride in his arranged marriage into Bratva Captain from every Bratva fic ever.

[AyChihuahua]

I still haven't completely given up on them making their way to Russia in the flashbacks this season, and the actress they hired sure looks like she could pass for Eastern European? Maybe this is Oliver's Russian bride in his arranged marriage into Bratva Captain from every Bratva fic ever.

So Oliver's a bigamist already?

My guess, she'll come back in present day and either he's married to her (although maybe not bc of Nyssa?) and that will mess with O/F, or Felicity will think he wants her/truly loved her and that will mess with O/F, or she'll think he's cheating with her, or something along those lines. Felicity's been pretty insecure about several of his past relationships, so that seems very likely to me.

[kismet]

Yep, totally reading my mind. 

 

IF Oliver isn't just using her, then I expect her to do something to betray him and just to torture us, to have Felicity do something that seems to parallel the same betrayal in the present.  I think I would rather see Oliver just go all evil and heartless....but that is probably year five. 

 

Kind of random, but anyone else really worried about what is going to happen when they run out of their flashbacks?  Pushing that back down to worry about more in the future. 

I think she will lead him to the dark side as well. I don't see it threatening O/F in present day. Consider me optimistic about O/F in s4.

 

As for the last part, if the fb are going to be like s3 then I will be happy when they are done. If they are like s1&2, then I'm not sure how I feel, I might miss them - but I can't worry about it right now.

[kismet]

I still haven't completely given up on them making their way to Russia in the flashbacks this season, and the actress they hired sure looks like she could pass for Eastern European? Maybe this is Oliver's Russian bride in his arranged marriage into Bratva Captain from every Bratva fic ever.

Here's hoping they make it to Russia, but it may only work if they split season FB (which Im all for). Unless of course he goes to Russia to avenge her death by the end of the season cliffhanger.

 

I hope we are done with OQ marriages for plot purposes. I just don't want all these random ex-wives. Its bad enough we get stuck with ex-girlfriends & love children. Can't he join Bratva without a marriage. Most of the Bratva fics I read have FS as he arrange/forced wife.

Edited August 11, 2015 by kismet

[dtissagirl]

Well, Felicity obviously can't be his Bratva wife, but maybe the show will go for the cliché? They like those.

I'm still not 100% sold on the flashbacks staying on Coast City for too long. Maybe not even past 401.

Edit: and if Oliver and Felicity are settled in Coast City, they can do their parallelling thing by having Oliver leave CC twice in the same episode.

Edited August 11, 2015 by dtissagirl

[jay741982]

So Oliver's a bigamist already?My guess, she'll come back in present day and either he's married to her (although maybe not bc of Nyssa?) and that will mess with O/F, or Felicity will think he wants her/truly loved her and that will mess with O/F, or she'll think he's cheating with her, or something along those lines. Felicity's been pretty insecure about several of his past relationships, so that seems very likely to me.

I really hope not. They said we would see Felicity cry less this year and if she cries even 2 or 3 times here comes the "she cries every episode" bullcrap

Edited August 11, 2015 by jay741982

[catrox14]

 

So Oliver's a bigamist already?

 

One has to be in a legally binding marriage to be a bigamist.

 

Even though I'm against Oliver having ANOTHER love interest from the past, I like the actress. She had to guest roles on SPN and I thought she acquitted herself well.

[AyChihuahua]

One has to be in a legally binding marriage to be a bigamist.

 

Even though I'm against Oliver having ANOTHER love interest from the past, I like the actress. She had to guest roles on SPN and I thought she acquitted herself well.

I know; I was teasing. I'm the lawyer who wrote a whole analysis re why his marriage to Nyssa is entirely non-binding outside of Nanda.

Here's hoping they make it to Russia, but it may only work if they split season FB (which Im all for). Unless of course he goes to Russia to avenge her death by the end of the season cliffhanger.

 

I hope we are done with OQ marriages for plot purposes. I just don't want all these random ex-wives. Its bad enough we get stuck with ex-girlfriends & love children. Can't he join Bratva without a marriage. Most of the Bratva fics I read have FS as he arrange/forced wife.

The going to Russia to avenge her idea is pretty interesting. That could work. And then it could turn out she didn't die but was evil (HIVE, maybe?) so she can still show up in present day to mess with O/F.

I don't see any in-show reason he has to do anything more to become a Bratva Captain. He already saved Anatoly, who ended up quite liking him even outside the life-saving. He COULD do more, but he doesn't have to.

[BkWurm1]

As for the last part, if the fb are going to be like s3 then I will be happy when they are done. If they are like s1&2, then I'm not sure how I feel, I might miss them - but I can't worry about it right now.

 

I'd be fine if they dropped the flashback but I'm pretty sure they will not let go of them altogether and it is what they might do to fill them that has me worrying. 

 

Edit: and if Oliver and Felicity are settled in Coast City, they can do their parallelling thing by having Oliver leave CC twice in the same episode.

 

Well something happens right away in the Flashbacks that they are being very hush, hush about.  Maybe he gets kidnapped again? 

[tarotx]

Perhaps Oliver is going to start the season in a relationship in both the past and presents and we will see one taking him dark and the other taking him light. I have a feeling this new crime organization is what this girl will get Oliver mixed with. Magic is going to come into play and perhaps this girl is the source in the Flashbacks and then DD in the present.

Edited August 11, 2015 by tarotx

[calliope1975]

I can't say I'm thrilled about a flashback LI, but if it makes the flashbacks worth watching, I can't complain. (Yet.) Rila Fukushima and Karl Yune were excellent, but Hong Kong was a snoozefest. 

 

TIIC are going to need to amp up Oliver's descent into darkdom if I'm to believe HK Oliver turned into S1 murdering anti-hero Oliver. The torture scene at the end of last year was a good start. While I wouldn't be a fan of this per say, perhaps new LI is evil and flashback Oliver has to fridge her himself.