Spoiler Discussion Thread

[statsgirl]

Those are good arguments in favour of the marriage, and I could believe that if this were episode 16 rather than 22.  (And they really should have done that, got Ray his suit by then and spent more time on Evil Oliver instead of all the filler they did.)

 

I'd love to have one scene of Nyssa and Oliver talking about teaming up, Nyssa talking about Sara and Oliver about Felicity but if we're supposed to believe that Oliver really is brainwashed at the ceremony point, and I do think finding out he still has his soul will be a gotcha either at the end of 322 or early 323, we can't have the audience see he still loves Felicity.

 

Nyssa and Oliver throwing out Ra's from the plane (snake on a plane indeed) works for me, as long at this storyline gets wrapped up by the end of the season and  hopefully Nyssa is running the LoA.  It would also be cool for CL's character on the spin-off to have Nyssa and the LoA for storylines.

 

 

I can understand Diggle not forgiving easily the Lyla/Sara part but not telling his plan? I don't know how he could have told his team about the plan, they were never alone.

I think he couldn't tell Diggle because Diggle might have tried to talk him out of it, or done something to subvert it e.g. if he wasn't worried enough when Lyla was kidnapped.  Besides, there's nothing Diggle could do to help Oliver with the plan, it has to be Oliver alone.

 

My guess for when he thought of it was at Nanda Parbat after Thea had been LP'd.  When Felicity knocks on the door, Oliver says "Thea" (not scripted) so he'd been thinking about Thea then, and later when he was at the window looking up at the sky.  In the original script, Oliver says "I won't get throught this" and Stephen changed it to "I won't survive this".  I think he knew at that point he was going to go all mole and take down Ra's from inside.

[apinknightmare]

My guess for when he thought of it was at Nanda Parbat after Thea had been LP'd.  When Felicity knocks on the door, Oliver says "Thea" (not scripted) 

 

Didn't he say "yeah"? 

[statsgirl]

You're right, he does.  (I had to check)

But it still supports my theory, that the "everything he did brought him to this point in time" could have been deciding to take down the League by playing along with Ra's because that's the only way he would be done with them.

Edited May 2, 2015 by statsgirl

[steeledwithakiss]

I really think Oliver was honest with Felicity with what was going through his mind: feeling the brother he once was died on that boat and if all that he did led him here what was it all for? If he's faking it I wonder if they'll show us a flashback of when he decided on the plan, maybe a conversation we didn't get to see between Maseo and him.

Edited May 2, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[AyChihuahua]

Out of curiosity, does anyone have any theories re why Oliver would have allowed Felicity not to be searched if he were truly brainwashed?  That seems like a pretty big clue that he's not, at least not anymore.  I mean, Oliver would have hated to see a man's hands on Felicity without her permission, but I can't see why brainwashed bad guy (NEVER calling him that stupid LOA name) would care.

[MostlyC]

Sheesh!  I go away and in my absence you post 18 pages worth of posts? Have mercy!

 

I owe the nice and wonderful mods who covered for me in my absence about a trillion dollars worth of drinks.  I said, "it's just one episode, there's no way they will post that much.  I'll even pay ya per page."

 

Thank you wonderful wonderful mods: Stacey, Lisin, and Silverstormm!  Your checks are in the mail, and drinks are on me for the next trillion dollars.

 

I may not even have to watch the episode now, after reading your 18 pages of your posts.

 

I don't know if I should be terribly terribly proud of you, or terribly terribly worried.

[catahoulamama]

Those are good arguments in favour of the marriage, and I could believe that if this were episode 16 rather than 22.  (And they really should have done that, got Ray his suit by then and spent more time on Evil Oliver instead of all the filler they did.)

 

While not a popular opinion, after this season, I think this show could benefit from a reduction in the number of episodes per season. It really has felt like there was an abundance of filler this year. Which is odd because it also felt like they didn't have enough time to fully flesh out all of the many stories they were trying to tell (and spinoff they were trying to sell). If they had less airtime to work with perhaps they'd be more effective in the execution of the story and more streamlined in the finished product.  That said, I agree with you, it seems like this brainwashing/marriage story should have been somewhere near the midpoint of the season instead of three episodes before the end.

[Starfish35]

Out of curiosity, does anyone have any theories re why Oliver would have allowed Felicity not to be searched if he were truly brainwashed? That seems like a pretty big clue that he's not, at least not anymore. I mean, Oliver would have hated to see a man's hands on Felicity without her permission, but I can't see why brainwashed bad guy (NEVER calling him that stupid LOA name) would care.

I actually don't have any theories, but it made me think. Now that indications are strong that he is not in fact brainwashed, his pissed off big brother glare at Thea should have been a strong clue as well. :) Oh, all the things he probably wanted to say so badly right then!

Edited May 2, 2015 by Starfish35

[statsgirl]

I was thinking that if Oliver does walk away from being The Arrow at the end of the season, the 3.5 comics could be about the Black Canary and the Atom working with Diggle to fight crime in Starling City. I don't know if they would have Sara in there too or if they would wait to introduce her new character/old character? on screen first when the spin-off airs.  They might even bring on Captain Cold, Firestorm and Hawkgirl for the 3.5 comics too. Maybe Nyssa if she's not running the LoA at the time. Or even if she is.

 

From the News thread:

Convinced about...?

We've talked so much about MG saying that there will be another wedding, I forgot that it's technically a spoiler.

 

jbuffyangel's theory that it's Oliver and Felicity who are the ones who get married. When I'm here and in my sane moments, I think that Thea's going to marry Roy. Or Ra's does force Oliver to marry Nyssa and their alliance carries on into season 4.  But she's got some convincing arguments why it could be Oliver and Felicity especially because MG promised big surprises in the next episode and Thea/Roy or Oliver/Nyssa would not be a surprise since Thea is presumably going to find Roy now that she has an address, and Ra's said Al Sah-him will marry Nyssa.

[kismet]

I made a pact that I wasn't gonna speculate on weddings anymore. But if we're placing bets I think O&F will be married in finale. I think the wedding will be O/N, but the marriage will be O&F. Its crazy but MG promised us crazy. So Im embracing it.

[TrueMyth]

Maybe the "Queen Incorporated" from the Flash future newspaper is actually named after Felicity Queen!

 

Oh, god, I think I broke my brain.

[Starfish35]

It seems to me that this entire O/F wedding/marriage theory revolves around the idea that there is going to be something shocking about the wedding other than that Ra's forcing Nyssa and Oliver to marry. Is there really any evidence for that at all? I mean, I know MG said there will be a lot of surprises in this episode, but why do people think they have to do with who Oliver marries, other than this weird determination that he IS going to marry Felicity?

For the record, I don't think there's a chance in hell that Oliver and Felicity marry this season. I wavered for awhile, but now that the Oliver/Nyssa thing has been confirmed, and we have pics of the ceremony, I'm going back to my original position.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Starfish35

[TrueMyth]

I would call Felicity catching the wedding bouquet and having the camera reference it twice is somewhat substantial narrative evidence as far as foreshadowing goes.  Not that I think it trumps all the images of Nyssa and Oliver from the promos.

[Password]

Someone on tumblr pointed out in episode 20 that Oliver made a toast to them and called Digg the "best man" he ever knew.

But I mean I'm not speculating.

[Starfish35]

The wedding bouquet theory to me is like the red/blue theory. Something that fans are ascribing a whole lot more significance to than the writers actually are. I honestly don't think it had any more significance than just a moment in that one episode for the fans. The writers do not put as much thought into these things as the fans do. I am confident of that.

It might turn out that I'm wrong, but to me all the pieces fit for it being Oliver/Nyssa. Particularly Marc saying he didn't know whether the marriage would last into season four. There's no way that happens if the marriage is Olicity or Thea/Roy.

[calliope1975]

Maybe the "Queen Incorporated" from the Flash future newspaper is actually named after Felicity Queen!

 

Oh, god, I think I broke my brain.

 

Join me over here in Delusional City. That's been my head canon since I first saw that headline. Felicity used her married name on the company she founded but keeps Smoak professionally. And while I adore Oliver, he's not savvy enough to broker a merger with Bruce Wayne. Felicity is. 

 

What? I said I was delusional.

 

I've given up trying to figure out MG and his spoileriffic tidbits. He both confuses and enrages me. I just have to keep repeating - two episodes. Two episodes to end this nightmare of a season. Next week - one episode. One episode to end this nightmare of a season. I can make it!

[Starfish35]

I just have to keep repeating - two episodes. Two episodes to end this nightmare of a season. Next week - one episode. One episode to end this nightmare of a season. I can make it!

Totally with you on that.

[kes0704]

I just have to keep repeating - two episodes. Two episodes to end this nightmare of a season. Next week - one episode. One episode to end this nightmare of a season. I can make it!

Totally with you on that.

This is where I'm at as well and it says a lot about the season for me. In seasons 1 & 2, I was waiting for the final episodes with excitement and anticipation. This season I'm waiting with a large amount of dread and a small amount of curiosity to see if it turns out to be as bad as I'm imagining - particularly in relation to the wedding plot point.

Part of me thinks the EP's couldn't possibly undermine their characters (particularly their hero) by proceeding with such a horrendous plot. How do you ever make your audience care about a potential future wedding down the track for the hero if you've already given away a first wedding so cheaply and under such terrible conditions. But then there is another part of me that thinks they will absolutely go through with it and disguise it as the shocking/surprising plot twist and justify it by saying "well the villain is evil", as a way of explanation.

Oh well, I guess I'll be put out of my misery with this season soon, after which I never want to hear about the LoA again.

[tv echo]

I'm probably wrong, but I'm now leaning toward the completed wedding being Thea/Roy.  Hear me out...

 

If the spoilers are true, then we know that:
-- Ep. 22 has the "most insane" cliffhanger they've ever done.
-- Ep. 23 will have Ra's targeting Starling City.
-- Ep. 23 ends in "kind of" a cliffhanger.
-- MG felt like they were writing "a series finale" (when writing Ep. 23).
-- S1 through S3 have been a trilogy of sorts, and Ep. 23 puts a "punctuation mark" on that trilogy.
-- The EPs haven't decided yet if the marriage will carry into S4.

 

If Oliver & Nyssa actually get married, then I don't see how their marriage is consistent with the above spoilers.  Who would end a series with a main character still trapped in a forced marriage?  (Also, I'd like to believe that the EPs do realize how terrible an idea it would be to force Nyssa to marry Oliver.)  Plus, the EPs do love their fake-outs.

 

So here's my current crack theory:

 

In 3x22, with Maseo's help, Team Arrow escapes from the dungeon and interrupts Oliver/Nyssa's wedding.  They fight the LOA.  Ra's and Oliver just watch.  Nyssa may be forced to watch.  Team Arrow is overwhelmed and losing when ARGUS agents (contacted by Maseo) sweep in and help them, but Ra's, Oliver and Nyssa have disappeared.  Cut to Thea and Roy getting married.  3x22 ends with Ra's, Oliver and Nyssa on a plane headed to Starling City with the bioweapon.

 

In 3x23, Oliver and Nyssa turn on Ra's - who is maybe defeated when he finally shows a sliver of human weakness of love for his daughter at the end (maybe Nyssa is indeed his daughter by his dead beloved?).  Nyssa becomes the new Ra's (so she can continue to train Laurel in Nanda Parbat over the summer hiatus).  Diggle and Lyla agree to help ARGUS in the future.  Oliver doesn't know what he's going to do with his life now that the city thinks the Arrow is dead, but for now he enjoys a drive with Felicity in his new Porsche (he either left Nanda Parbat with some treasure or was gifted some gold by Nyssa, giving him new assets with which to buy back QC in the future?).  We see Damien Dahrk for the first time.

 

The EPs may not have decided whether WH/Thea is returning as a regular cast member next season.  On the one hand, Thea could stay married to Roy and live far away from Starling City.  Then Thea & Roy would only return in recurring roles, and Thea never fulfills her comic destiny as Speedy (unless she shows up as Speedy in the same way that Roy shows up as Arsenal on Arrow, The Flash or the Spinoff).  On the other hand, sometime during the summer hiatus, Thea & Roy decide that marrying was a mistake (she's only 19 or 20 and was grief-stricken at the time of their marriage, he's still on the run and starts to feel guilty for dragging her into his fugitive lifestyle).  They divorce or annul their marriage, and Thea returns to Starling City to become Speedy.

 

P.S. When the EPs said that we'd find out how CL returns for the spinoff, I don't think they were talking about finding out on Arrow or The Flash.  I think they were talking about the spinoff teaser that is going to debut at the May upfronts in NYC.  The CW Upfront is scheduled for May 14.  (source)

Edited May 3, 2015 by tv echo

[steeledwithakiss]

It seems to me that this entire O/F wedding/marriage theory revolves around the idea that there is going to be something shocking about the wedding other than that Ra's forcing Nyssa and Oliver to marry. Is there really any evidence for that at all? I mean, I know MG said there will be a lot of surprises in this episode, but why do people think they have to do with who Oliver marries, other than this weird determination that he IS going to marry Felicity?

For the record, I don't think there's a chance in hell that Oliver and Felicity marry this season. I wavered for awhile, but now that the Oliver/Nyssa thing has been confirmed, and we have pics of the ceremony, I'm going back to my original position.

I agree with you, a lot of the speculations are assuming that. Who knows what the big surprise is going to be? Usually when the show spoils something it's because a lot more is going on that episode. They showed us basically every F/O scene of The Calm because the big shocker was not about them, it was Sara dying. Not a lot of people guessed it even though the second episode was named after her. Or they were in denial.

 

Actually usually when MG says there's a lot more than what the promos are showing it's almost never relationship related. He said there was a lot more to the sex scene, people were expecting sweet after glow scenes we got Felicity drugging Oliver (not that I didn't enjoy it, I loved it).  Also the way MG is getting defensive on Twitter about people attacking him on marrying their only lesbian character to a man, kinda confirmed to me O/N are definitely getting married. If I were to speculate on something is that MG thinks we're going to be so surprised to know Oliver was faking it all along and works with Nyssa to bring down Ra's. Him being on The Flash the following week also confirms it. MG doesn't have any control on the promos and the promotional stills (he was not happy they had spoiled Maseo being in NP in 3x09) so he probably didn't expect Oliver helping Barry would be spoiled weeks ago, pretty much ruining his Oliver is in the League and is not brainwashed anymore surprise.

Edited May 3, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[apinknightmare]

Actually usually when MG says there's a lot more than what the promos are showing it's almost never relationship related. He said there was a lot more to the sex scene, people were expecting sweet after glow scenes we got Felicity drugging Oliver (not that I didn't enjoy it, I loved it). 

 

People expected a sweet morning after scene because one of the reviewers who was at the early screening said there was (she said it was sweet, playful and intimate IIRC). Pretty sure she's the one who said there was a lot more to the sex scene than what we saw, too - and to be fair to her, there was.

 

I'm not sure why anyone thinks that the shocking twist or whatever has anything at all to do with the wedding. It could, I guess, but I'm guessing the wedding takes place earlier in the episode - seems to me the shocking twist/cliffhanger is going to be us finding out that someone's not working for the side we think they are, or there's some other evil plot afoot. I seriously, seriously doubt that it's wedding related. 

 

I'd love it if they address in-show that the marriage is meaningless outside of Nanda Parbat (at some point this season, not necessarily this ep). I know MG said he wasn't sure if it would last into S4, but that's a troll answer if I've ever heard one.

Edited May 3, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Starfish35]

I think WH/Thea is back next season - MG answered a question about the effects of the Lazarus Pit on Thea, saying they would get their answer in season four. So it doesn't sound like they're done with Thea.

Also, when asked "is the wedding in 3x22 born of love or convenience?" he answered "Did tonight’s episode (3x21) answer your question?" I think 3x21 was supposed to answer the questions about who the wedding was and why. I agree with steeledwithakiss. The "shocker" is more likely to be "OMG Oliver was faking it all along!" They likely didn't count on the Canadian promo spoiling that.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Starfish35

[catahoulamama]

It seems to me that this entire O/F wedding/marriage theory revolves around the idea that there is going to be something shocking about the wedding other than that Ra's forcing Nyssa and Oliver to marry. Is there really any evidence for that at all? I mean, I know MG said there will be a lot of surprises in this episode, but why do people think they have to do with who Oliver marries, other than this weird determination that he IS going to marry Felicity?

For the record, I don't think there's a chance in hell that Oliver and Felicity marry this season. I wavered for awhile, but now that the Oliver/Nyssa thing has been confirmed, and we have pics of the ceremony, I'm going back to my original position.

I'm so exhausted by all the wedding speculation and adamant insistence that it will be an Olicity HEA. I'm an Olicity fan, but I'm more cynical and slower to embrace the idea that it's gonna be sunshine and rainbows, as this show's desire to and track record of completely screwing with the audience trumps all for me...LOL. Despite feeling that it would be simultaneously lovely yet somehow a ripoff if we get an Olicity union by the end of 3x23, I truly fear for a large portion of the heavily invested Olicity fandom if the wedding/marriage they're all banking on does not happen.

The wedding bouquet theory to me is like the red/blue theory. Something that fans are ascribing a whole lot more significance to than the writers actually are. I honestly don't think it had any more significance than just a moment in that one episode for the fans. The writers do not put as much thought into these things as the fans do. I am confident of that.

It might turn out that I'm wrong, but to me all the pieces fit for it being Oliver/Nyssa. Particularly Marc saying he didn't know whether the marriage would last into season four. There's no way that happens if the marriage is Olicity or Thea/Roy.

I agree. I think the fans ascribe alot more meaning and symbolism to things in the show than the show actually does.  I can see both sides. If they do marry off Olicity, then, yeah, there's been alot of symbolic bread crumbs along the way this season, but all of those could also be seen as little teases and easter eggs for Olicity fans in an otherwise dark and depressing season over all.

Totally with you on that.

Me too. I've been counting down the episodes for the last month.  Truly looking forward to the hiatus and then, hopefully, Bratva next season.

[apinknightmare]

^I actually don't think that many people want or expect Oliver and Felicity to get married. There are a few people clinging desperately, but I don't know that anyone will be all that upset with Oliver and Nyssa getting married, ship wise. I mean, it's gross for other reasons, but it means absolutely nothing as far as Oliver and Felicity's relationship is concerned. 

[quarks]

I think WH/Thea is back next season - MG answered a question about the effects of the Lazarus Pit on Thea, saying they would get their answer in season four. So it doesn't sound like they're done with Thea.

 

I don't know if the show is done with Thea or not, but it's possible that they could drop Willa Holland from regular to recurring/guest status and still not be done with Thea.

 

My own theory is that we are all going to have huge issues with fitting Oliver's appearance over on Flash into the Arrow timeline.  Let's hope I'm wrong.

[catahoulamama]

I don't think the "shocking twist" is wedding related either.  I'm more inclined to think it's something along the lines of Maseo is undercover in the LoA for Argus and he and Tatsu may be working together with Oliver at this point to take down Ra's and the LoA and get the AlphaOmega (like they've worked together all season in the flashbacks).  They could even tie it back to them helping Oliver recover from the original fight with Ra's....they needed his help again on this mission. Maseo may have known about the prophecy "whoever survives Ra's sword, yadda, yadda" and let Oliver in on it (offscreen) back then, so they all knew they end up here at some point. 

 

Logistically, I just can't see how they're going to tie all of these loose ends together in a believable manner in the remaining roughly 90 minutes of airtime left this season. 

[quarks]

Oooh, wait, I do have a theory. Not about the wedding - but about Oliver still in the LoA costume over on Flash.  If he is completely back to Oliver Queen at the end of 322 (and not midway through 323, the other possibility) Is is possible that he's just wearing that to continue to hide his Oliver Queen identity (although why he's bothering at this point, I couldn't tell you) - because he can't access his Arrow suit since that's still impounded by Starling City police?

[Starfish35]

Makes sense.

[catahoulamama]

^I actually don't think that many people want or expect Oliver and Felicity to get married. There are a few people clinging desperately, but I don't know that anyone will be all that upset with Oliver and Nyssa getting married, ship wise. I mean, it's gross for other reasons, but it means absolutely nothing as far as Oliver and Felicity's relationship is concerned. 

IDK, it seems to be being pushed pretty hard on tumblr and in some circles on twitter in recent weeks and the theories are recalculated and spun every week to adjust to show developments to still make it work.  I've not really understood that desire for it to be them at this point, because I'd feel kinda ripped off if they did a quicky wedding with them after they were at odds (romantically) for most of the season. 

Oooh, wait, I do have a theory. Not about the wedding - but about Oliver still in the LoA costume over on Flash.  If he is completely back to Oliver Queen at the end of 322 (and not midway through 323, the other possibility) Is is possible that he's just wearing that to continue to hide his Oliver Queen identity (although why he's bothering at this point, I couldn't tell you) - because he can't access his Arrow suit since that's still impounded by Starling City police?

I could buy that.  It's the only suit he has at this point.  He's gonna need a new one for next season for sure though. I don't want any reminders of this interminable season of "The World According to Ra's" or the LoA after 3x23, thankyouverymuch.  I will still mourn the loss of those green leather pants locked up in the the SCPD evidence lockup though. :)

[foreverevolving]

I've given up trying to figure out MG and his spoileriffic tidbits. He both confuses and enrages me. I just have to keep repeating - two episodes. Two episodes to end this nightmare of a season. Next week - one episode. One episode to end this nightmare of a season. I can make it!

 

I've never given much stock to anything MG (or the other ep's) says through twitter or tumblr or interviews(which i don't even really read). makes the entire viewing of the show much more pleasant.

[Chaser]

I don't think the wedding theory would be nearly as popular without the support of some really big bloggers in the Olicity fandom. Their followers just jumped on the bandwagon. Which makes it sound cultish which I don't mean it too.

[apinknightmare]

IDK, it seems to be being pushed pretty hard on tumblr and in some circles on twitter in recent weeks and the theories are recalculated and spun every week to adjust to show developments to still make it work.  I've not really understood that desire for it to be them at this point, because I'd feel kinda ripped off if they did a quicky wedding with them after they were at odds (romantically) for most of the season. 

 

I guess I just follow all the right people then, because the only person I've seen really pushing it is jbuffyangel. I think the reason some people are clinging to it is because it has been a super shitty season for Olicity and Oliver marrying someone else does sort of put a cherry on that shit sundae, but I would actually be surprised if a large amount of people were upset if it didn't happen. There are the heavily invested shippers, but I that is a relatively small number of people based on the whole. 

I don't think the wedding theory would be nearly as popular without the support of some really big bloggers in the Olicity fandom. Their followers just jumped on the bandwagon. Which makes it sound cultish which I don't mean it too.

 

Yeah, I think it's just a way of people clinging to a little bit of hope there, especially since it seems like the general consensus at the beginning of the season was that Oliver would be fighting for his Oliver Queen identity by deciding he could be a hero and be in a relationship with Felicity and get his company back. No one imagined the craptastic left turn into LoA ridiculousness this season would take at the time. So I get holding onto the thought that it's been a rough ride for some reward, but I think that reward if it comes will be one or two minutes of not completely depressing interactions between Oliver and Felicity, if we get that at all. I can see why it would be nice for some people to think that they've sat through all this angst for something good. 

[statsgirl]

Oh, those green leather pants.  I think my love for them is as great as my love for Sally.  I hope whatever Oliver gets to wear after the LoA outfit (which is not at all sexy and makes him look like the Pilsbury dough boy), is equally lust-worthy.

 

MG said that there are going to be two big surprises in 322 and if you're not surprised by them, you're unsurprisable.  Since we know about the Al Sah-him (I'll be glad when I no longer need to type all that out) and Nyssa wedding, it's not that. And everyone has been speculating that Oliver isn't really brainwashed and that Maseo is working for ARGUS/going to chance sides, hopefully there is more than that.

 

Also, when asked "is the wedding in 3x22 born of love or convenience?" he answered "Did tonight’s episode (3x21) answer your question?" I think 3x21 was supposed to answer the questions about who the wedding was and why.

The Oliver/Nyssa wedding is out of convenience (for  Ra's?  no one else) but is the marriage the same as the wedding?  I'd say yes except that it supposedly carries into s4 and I can't think of any reason for Oliver and Nyssa not to get out of it as fast as possible, especially if they've killed Ra's. Please, show, my requests at this point are so low. All I want is Ra's dead dead dead.

 

 There are a few people clinging desperately, but I don't know that anyone will be all that upset with Oliver and Nyssa getting married, ship wise. I mean, it's gross for other reasons, but it means absolutely nothing as far as Oliver and Felicity's relationship is concerned. 

For me, it's gross because it's such bad writing.  It's the sort of thing a 12 year old girl would write.

 

I really wonder what MG is playing it and whether it's just cat-and-mouse games.  If it is, hopefully it will bite him back.  Realistically, I think few people wanted Oliver and Felicity to get married at this point but now that he's opened the door to it..... if it doesn't happen, there will be a lot of upset people

Edited May 3, 2015 by statsgirl

[Chaser]

I'm really struggling with these last two episodes because of the LOA. Ra's the Wedding Planner finished off what little interest I had in the character to begin with. I was cringing during so many lines this last episode. The only scenes I could enjoy were the Diggle Family and Felicity/Thea ones. Not even SA could save the LOA storyline.

I want to hang on for Diggle and Felicity storylines next season and a Big Bad Division Type, but if they don't listen to feedback carefully on the season then I have no hope for this show.

[apinknightmare]

I really wonder what MG is playing it and whether it's just cat-and-mouse games.  If it is, hopefully it will bite him back.  Realistically, I think few people wanted Oliver and Felicity to get married at this point but now that he's opened the door to it..... if it doesn't happen, there will be a lot of upset people

 

Oh, see. I don't think there will be a lot of upset people, but I could be wrong. MG opened the door for speculation by mentioning the second wedding, but we know it's Nyssa Oliver's marrying now, because Ra's is going to make him do it. I understand that there will be some people who are upset there isn't a twist that winds up with him marrying Felicity, but the writing's on the wall now. There's not even a crumb of anything suggesting that Oliver and Felicity are going to get hitched at this point, apart from Felicity catching that stupid bouquet, and we know from MG that he just couldn't resist throwing that in there (because he is a hack). I think that if they even give a glimmer of hope about the two of them then I think most people, even the ones who were hoping for the twist, won't be all that upset about it. 

Edited May 3, 2015 by apinknightmare

[AyChihuahua]

 

Oh, those green leather pants.  I think my love for them is as great as my love for Sally.  I hope whatever Oliver gets to wear after the LoA outfit (which is not at all sexy and makes him look like the Pilsbury dough boy), is equally lust-worthy.

I don't get the love for the evilOliver outfit, either.  Not just because it's evil...I don't find it at all flattering on him.  If I didn't know better I would think he was rather chubby.  He'll obviously get a new green outfit next year, which is fine, but I hope it's not overly buckle-y.

 

Also, him wearing the same LOA outfit in the Flash episode makes perfect sense, if he's still undercover at that point.  My only problem with him going to Flash is that it's right in the middle of the big finale push, so for him to jet to CC is just weird.

 

I am trying to figure out who will buy the DVDs for this season.  Masochists?  Anyone looking for Olicity or Laurel or OGTA or even Roy moments would be far better going with individual episodes.  So maybe someone in one of those categories who doesn't do streaming?

[Starfish35]

The Oliver/Nyssa wedding is out of convenience (for Ra's? no one else) but is the marriage the same as the wedding? I'd say yes except that it supposedly carries into s4 and I can't think of any reason for Oliver and Nyssa not to get out of it as fast as possible, especially if they've killed Ra's.

I think things are going to happen pretty fast in the last couple of episodes, so there may not be time to address it, if in fact there is anything to be addressed at all (as others have pointed out, the wedding isn't going to be legal outside of NP). So I think the thing about not knowing whether it will carry into season four is that they honestly don't know yet whether they're going to bring it up in season four, or whether over the hiatus Nyssa and Oliver will just quietly decide to bury it and never ever let it be spoken of again.

He'll obviously get a new green outfit next year, which is fine, but I hope it's not overly buckle-y

Agreed. I don't know what's with the costume designer's fascination with the buckles. It wasn't just BC, though hers is the worst. The Arsenal costume had a lot of buckles too.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Starfish35

[AyChihuahua]

Oh, and I am enraged about the Oliver/Nyssa weddding, not for Olicity reasons, but because (1) I very much find it to be homophobic and retrograde; (2) it is an overt Batman ripoff; and (3) it makes no story sense.  Also, the fact that it's meaningless outside the LOA is good for Olicity, but also shows how very meaningless it is.  I mean, this is the penultimate episode, it won't last into S4, so they'll be "married" for like 2 hours.  

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

I don't get the love for the evilOliver outfit, either. Not just because it's evil...I don't find it at all flattering on him. If I didn't know better I would think he was rather chubby. He'll obviously get a new green outfit next year, which is fine, but I hope it's not overly buckle-y.

Also, him wearing the same LOA outfit in the Flash episode makes perfect sense, if he's still undercover at that point. My only problem with him going to Flash is that it's right in the middle of the big finale push, so for him to jet to CC is just weird.

I am trying to figure out who will buy the DVDs for this season. Masochists? Anyone looking for Olicity or Laurel or OGTA or even Roy moments would be far better going with individual episodes. So maybe someone in one of those categories who doesn't do streaming?

There is nothing in this season worth forking over a dime for. The good stuff will live on YouTube. The extras will eventually get a YouTube address. Why spend hard earned money on this pile of poo? I'm in the red with Arrow s3. I've already wasted too much time. Why work a few hours in order to afford to buy this crap that I will never want to take the plastic off of. It needs to stay wrapped up. I don't want it to contaminate any other tv seasons on my shelves.

[apinknightmare]

So I think the thing about not knowing whether it will carry into season four is that they honestly don't know yet whether they're going to bring it up in season four, or whether over the hiatus Nyssa and Oliver will just quietly decide to bury it and never ever let it be spoken of again.

 

I think he said that just so he didn't tip his hand that it's a meaningless, plot-driven marriage that won't last. He can't very well say, "well...it basically only sticks for 45 minutes," haha.

[Carrie Ann]

The "unsurprisable" thing doesn't mean much to me because given the 20 new pages in this thread this week alone (hi MostlyC and other mods, you are nice and patient!), there are surely people who have suggested or at least considered basically everything, even if they didn't have enough evidence to suggest it out loud somewhere. If I had to guess, I would say one of the two things involves Malcolm in double-cross mode, but I don't know if he's working with anyone else or just for his own ends. So if that does happen, there will be some surprise as to who and how long and to what purpose. But it's not going to be shock. (Like with the Roy fake-out. When he "died," I felt sort of numb about it, and it was because I saw how much time was left and thought there was an even chance that something was up. I wouldn't have guessed how it all went down beforehand, but we did guess that he was just leaving the show, not dying, so it's not like the end result was a huge surprise.)

[catahoulamama]

I'm really struggling with these last two episodes because of the LOA. Ra's the Wedding Planner finished off what little interest I had in the character to begin with. I was cringing during so many lines this last episode. The only scenes I could enjoy were the Diggle Family and Felicity/Thea ones. Not even SA could save the LOA storyline.

I want to hang on for Diggle and Felicity storylines next season and a Big Bad Division Type, but if they don't listen to feedback carefully on the season then I have no hope for this show.

The promised Diggle and Felicity storylines are what are keeping me invested enough to return next season too - that, and the hope of the Bratva story (and Anatoly) in the flashbacks.  If it's gonna be LoA part deux with some sort of tie in with D and F's stories it'll be tough to stick with it for just more of the same. I'm just so absolutely DONE with Ra's and this LoA stuff after this season.

[catahoulamama]

I don't get the love for the evilOliver outfit, either.  Not just because it's evil...I don't find it at all flattering on him.  If I didn't know better I would think he was rather chubby.  He'll obviously get a new green outfit next year, which is fine, but I hope it's not overly buckle-y.

 

Also, him wearing the same LOA outfit in the Flash episode makes perfect sense, if he's still undercover at that point.  My only problem with him going to Flash is that it's right in the middle of the big finale push, so for him to jet to CC is just weird.

 

I am trying to figure out who will buy the DVDs for this season.  Masochists?  Anyone looking for Olicity or Laurel or OGTA or even Roy moments would be far better going with individual episodes.  So maybe someone in one of those categories who doesn't do streaming?

I don't get how anyone finds the LoA outfit hot either and they're out there. It hides every bit of SA's ridiculous physique AND his face. Who's bright idea was that? LOL Yeah, lets essentially put our uber attractive lead in an outfit that's pretty much the male equivalent of a burka...cover every asset he's got but the eyes. Great idea.

 

I'm interested to see how his appearance on Flash shakes out timewise though. Wondering if it'll just be out of sync again like the last Raylicity to CC crossover was and they'll just put out disclaimers on it like they did with that one.

 

Re: DVD's of this season, I'm of the mind that DVD sales were likely on their mind when they decided on Olicity sex this season. They had to throw something into this season that people would want to see again. It's just easier to buy that episode and 3x01 for happy Olicity times and leave the rest behind if you're so inclined. I'm passing on all of this season for sure.

[catahoulamama]

The "unsurprisable" thing doesn't mean much to me because given the 20 new pages in this thread this week alone (hi MostlyC and other mods, you are nice and patient!), there are surely people who have suggested or at least considered basically everything, even if they didn't have enough evidence to suggest it out loud somewhere. If I had to guess, I would say one of the two things involves Malcolm in double-cross mode, but I don't know if he's working with anyone else or just for his own ends. So if that does happen, there will be some surprise as to who and how long and to what purpose. But it's not going to be shock. (Like with the Roy fake-out. When he "died," I felt sort of numb about it, and it was because I saw how much time was left and thought there was an even chance that something was up. I wouldn't have guessed how it all went down beforehand, but we did guess that he was just leaving the show, not dying, so it's not like the end result was a huge surprise.)

My money's on Malcolm being part of the "surprise", too, because it seems that while he's been present all season on the canvas, they've almost gone out of their way to keep him low profile through most of it. The fact that it feels like it's been deliberate, like "look over here, and not at Malcolm" leads me to believe it's so they can do a big reveal and have their "gotcha" or "Ta-Da!" moment in the end.

[apinknightmare]

I'm one of those people who find the League outfit super hot. Especially when Oliver's all dead behind the eyes in it, I don't know why.

[Chaser]

I'm so surprised I don't find Evil!Oliver hot. I'm totally a villain girl. Klaus S3 TVD? Sign me up. Not!Wells? Yes Please. Smallvile Lex Luthor? Yep.

I think it's my total annoyance for this whole storyline. If he came back mid season brainwashed so there was time to build? Maybe.

[kes0704]

I won't be disappointed if there isn't an O/F wedding this year because, for me, it would be another odd plot choice in a season full of them. However, I will detest an O/N wedding if it acts as nothing than a signal that Ra's is evil. I got that from the plan to release a bio weapon against a city full of people and Oliver doesn't need to be "married" to anyone to do that.

I also think it's short sighted to write off any criticism as people not being able to tell the difference between plot and political speech (per MG on Twitter). I can tell the difference and I still hate it because it feels like it's designed as a media talking point at best and an attempt to rile up fans at worst and not as an important part of a larger story arc.

For me, they will need to address how O/N get out of it onscreen (not in a comic) otherwise it will always be a dangling thread in the back of my mind that Oliver is "married" - legal or not. I know they love to leave plots dangling to pick up later but this one needs to disappear...immediately.

[statsgirl]

Do you think if we all post at SA's FB page or tweet him, he'll use his influence to limit the buckles?  BC's is more than I can stand, I shudder to think what the new costume for the Green Arrow could be.

 

I am trying to figure out who will buy the DVDs for this season.  Masochists?  Anyone looking for Olicity or Laurel or OGTA or even Roy moments would be far better going with individual episodes. 

The one two times this season this show has surprised me in a good way are the fake-out for Roy's death and the amount of Olicity interaction in ep 320.  Sara's death surprised me but in a very bad "Seriously, what is your problem?" kind of way.

 

The rest of the season has been like paint-by-numbers plotting, which wouldn't be a problem except that the stories it told were ones I didn't care about.

 

Re: DVD's of this season, I'm of the mind that DVD sales were likely on their mind when they decided on Olicity sex this season. They had to throw something into this season that people would want to see again. It's just easier to buy that episode and 3x01 for happy Olicity times and leave the rest behind if you're so inclined. I'm passing on all of this season for sure.

Yeah. It's a cynical move to sell DVDs, possibly made worse that most of their big storylines this season -- Sara's death, Ra's, Laurel becoming BC, Ray becoming The Atom -- went over like a lead balloon to many of the viewers.

 

 

For me, they will need to address how O/N get out of it onscreen (not in a comic) otherwise it will always be a dangling thread in the back of my mind that Oliver is "married" - legal or not. I know they love to leave plots dangling to pick up later but this one needs to disappear...immediately.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the season ends with the marriage still on and then in 4x01 we hear that it's over and it gets resolved in the 3.5 comics.  I don't think they got the message that people want to see development on the screen, not read about it in comics six months later.

 

But I could roll with it, as long as it's a dead plot point by the start of next season.

Edited May 3, 2015 by statsgirl

[catahoulamama]

 

 

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the season ends with the marriage still on and then in 4x01 we hear that it's over and it gets resolved in the 3.5 comics.  I don't think they got the message that people want to see development on the screen, not read about it in comics six months later.

 

But I could roll with it, as long as it's a dead plot point by the start of next season.

That's been a huge pet peeve of mine this season - telling so much of the story (and, at times, a much BETTER story) via the comics. I get the cross promotion angle and all, but the comics shouldn't be used to correct mistakes and/or tell more of the story we'd prefer to have seen on the show.

 

I'm a bit fearful they'll adopt this method with the spinoff and crossovers as well. Congrats to them on scoring another spinoff, but I don't want it to be mandatory I watch ALL of their shows to get the whole story for the characters I care about on ONE show.

[Sunshine]

From the Print TV Guide interview w/MG re: Is Oliver redeemable? Can he still be a hero? Indication of where S4 is going in the finale and "Viewers may not be able to handle the truth"

I, like others, was thinking he hangs up the hood and embraces Oliver Queen only (at least for a while). Nyssa would take over the LOA. Assuming that Oliver defeats Ra's (which will really anger some viewers), I am wondering if he doesn't stay with the League as Ra's Al Ghul to try and reform them. This would also give him their resources to take on Damien Darhk and HIVE. In 3.21 they set up Ra's and Darhk as rivals. Nyssa could remain in SC with Laurel. This would definitely change the TA dynamic which I keep reading.