Spoiler Discussion Thread

[looptab]

When do you think Barry's next appearance will be? 3x22 or 3x23?

[apinknightmare]

I saw an interesting theory on Tumblr - that Oliver goes to Central City in 3x22 so he can visit STAR Labs to get Caitlyn to help with the virus. Seems plausible to me, but THAT'S AN IMPORTANT THING TO HAVE HAPPEN ON ANOTHER SHOW. 

[looptab]

So he would conveniently find himself there for the battle against Wells? Sounds likely.

[Belinea]

They only remember that Barry exists when it is convenient. I don't think it was a super plan by ARGUS because that would be giving Oliver too much credit. And he could have accepted Ra's offer the first time before waiting for Ra's to kill his sister. Strangely through all this mess, I don't even consider Laurel as one of the weak parts of the show anymore because the storylines this year are so unappealing that she becomes a nonentity for me. There are things way more agitating this season.

 

BTW: Is Quentin in the finale? Does that storyline still go somewhere? Are they gonna resurrect Sara at some point or will it happen over hiatus?  

Edited May 1, 2015 by Belinea

[kismet]

Anyway, terrible bitch alert: I don't think anything Oliver's done has been so awful that it would be bad if he was faking. If the drugs are having an effect on him, then at the beginning when he saw Diggle, he might have known that wasn't Diggle. He'd been being drugged for 3 weeks - surely that wasn't his first hallucination. Maybe he didn't know who it really was, but he could kill the whole League of Assassins if it made Ra's believe he was brainwashed and allowed him to carry out whatever plan to neutralize the LoA and I wouldn't hold it against him or think he'd regressed. I feel the same way about Nyssa, sorry to say. Not that I think he wouldn't have been upset by having to do it, and I'm not saying it's right, but dude's in deep now - he has no choice but to go with it. If he refused him, Ra's would surely kill him, and then who even knows what he'd do to the people Oliver loves for retribution. I'm actually not sure he was going to kill Diggle in that fight in that warehouse or whatever. And I wrote yesterday that I don't think he did anything terrible with the kidnapping either - it was honestly the most boring kidnapping I've ever seen.

 

Anyway, I'm on the faking train now, because I don't see any reason why Oliver would be faking being himself to whoever he was talking to when he said "we need help," (Maseo or Malcolm) unless Ra's thinks there's a traitor in their midst and is trying to get Oliver to suss him out. That traitor would obviously be Maseo.

 

This whole thing is making my brain hurt. I want this season to be over so I can stop trying to figure it out because like Felicity, I hate mysteries.

Gotta agree. Feel bad for scarf guy, but he's not OQ's first or last unintentional kill. Kidnapping Lyla? Low blow, but pretty much lure them out 101. Im mean Im not criminal mastermind, and even I thought of kidnapping her as one of my first moves. Even his fighting, don't agree with SA's Mom ~ it was your average double sword fight. Looked pretty badass though & at least OQ now has decent sword skills. Oliver having a lot of blood on his hands. Who knows what MG is trying to stir up. This was the same guy that swore Oliver Queen was dead. For all we know, maybe OQ decided to crash a blood donation van.

 

Still think the irreparable thing will be related to Andy, but that will likely not happen until s4, but perhaps the seeds of mistrust our sowed this season after Lyla & Al Shahim's shenanigans.

[Pyramid]

The single biggest failing this season for me (apart from the Canary Cry, lol) is the utter lack of motivation or explanation of Ra's plan. We're nearly at the end of the season and I've no idea why Ra's is doing what he's doing. Honestly, what a lot of old bollocks.

 

Oh and fridging Sara. That was a big fail.

[tv echo]

I'm hoping that Ray's jacket has some secret technological gadget embedded in it and isn't just a fancy jacket...

 

Edited May 1, 2015 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

I'm hoping that Ray's jacket has some secret technological gadget embedded in it and isn't just a fancy jacket...

 

I think it must be what he wears under his ATOM suit.

[Genki]

The neckline is not very flattering on him.

[kismet]

The single biggest failing this season for me (apart from the Canary Cry, lol) is the utter lack of motivation or explanation of Ra's plan. We're nearly at the end of the season and I've no idea why Ra's is doing what he's doing. Honestly, what a lot of old bollocks.

Ras is clearly obsessed Oliver. He failed to keep Malcolm as his prized obsession, so he moved to a younger model. He is giving Nyssa everything he can't have while stripping her of everything she is. But in his warped & twisted mind he is doing the best for his daughter. Its really misplaced jealousy and affection. As I type this it was supposed to be a joke, but maybe its not. I mean clearly beyond him really really wanting OQ, their is no clear motivation. Even replacing his own title, there are so many other willing & talented candidates for the post - to be gunning  so hard for Oliver makes no sense.

[nksarmi]

The single biggest failing this season for me (apart from the Canary Cry, lol) is the utter lack of motivation or explanation of Ra's plan. We're nearly at the end of the season and I've no idea why Ra's is doing what he's doing. Honestly, what a lot of old bollocks.

 

Oh and fridging Sara. That was a big fail.

Yea, Slade was a crazy bastard who was holding something against Oliver that was definitely NOT Oliver's fault.  But at least he was a crazy bastard with a story that made sense when you looked at it from his nutzo point-of-view.

 

But Ra's story makes no freakin sense given what we have been told....

 

From what we know prior to this season, the LoA is a group of assassins who kill people that I suppose Ra's decides need killing.  Nyssa apparently has enough honor that she could be persuaded to help save SC at the end of season two, but she does not represent Ra's in all things.

 

So this season, Malcolm has a blood debt for the Undertaking because killing innocents broke their code....ok but this has a lot of problems, because:

 

1. Merlyn was not part of the league when he did this - he was released

2. Ra's was threatening to kill 100 innocents in SC for every (hour? day?) that Oliver didn't turn over the party guilty for Sara's death (a person he does. not. care. about) which would seem to violate his code, right?

3. The new Ra's has to destroy their home town to become the new Ra's even though the old Ra's apparently has a tendency to threaten their loved ones to make them join to begin with AND this is another exception to the code that got Malcolm in trouble?

 

So the code and motivations make zero sense.  Then we examine the whole Malcolm's killing of Sara and Ra's knowing Oliver didn't kill Sara thing...

 

1. Why Sara?  Malcolm had to drug Thea and bring her back to SC to kill Sara of all people.  Sara was only in SC because she had a tip that Malcolm was there - who provided that tip?  Malcolm could have achieved his goal of manipulating Oliver to fight for Thea with just any random LoA person, but somehow both Sara and Malcolm/Thea come back to SC for this murder?  This seems to target Sara very specifically. There has to be a reason it was her besides meta reasons or this was bad writing.

 

2. Why did Malcolm think Oliver could beat Ra's?  From everything we have seen Oliver had never picked up a sword before that fight on the mountain top.  Malcolm would have known that Oliver stood zero chance against Ra's - hell, Oliver should have known that as well but Oliver is an idiot.  Malcolm is supposed to be smart.  There has to be a reason he wanted to put Oliver on that mountain with Ra's - there has to be a plan behind it.

 

3. Oliver only survived because of Maseo AND Malcolm knew about the prophesy beforehand.  It seems like it was orchestrated that Oliver would survive and fulfill the prophesy.  The questions is who arranged for his survival - Malcolm? Ra's? Darhk?

 

If we say that Malcolm was working for Ra's because Ra's wanted Oliver to be his heir and wanted Malcolm to help him make that happen - all this crap makes sense.  If we say that Malcolm was working for Darhk and wanted Malcolm to cause dissention in the LoA so he could kill Ra's and take his place - a lot of this crap make sense.  If Malcolm is working for himself to take over the LoA or something like that - then some of it makes sense but not all.

 

So I really need a big reveal in the next two episodes that involves Malcolm or this season is a wash for me.

[kismet]

Have we figured out why Ray is even there? I mean besides to possbily officiate a wedding and/or marriage....perhaps see if he can expand his services when the LoA love dens go public... :)  I get its all hands on deck to save OQ, but really the flying tinman? Did the league confiscate the tin suit? Does nobody care to stay & protect the city. Let's just all go to NP in leather, electronics & tin on search for a magical cure. It really is like the Wizard of OZ- Arrow Style.

Edited May 1, 2015 by kismet

[apinknightmare]

Have we figured out why Ray is even there? I mean besides to possbily officiate a wedding and/or marriage....perhaps see if he can expand his services when the LoA love dens go public... :)  I get its all hands on deck to save OQ, but really the flying tinman? Did the league confiscate the tin suit? Does nobody care to stay & protect the city. Let's just all go to NP is leather, electronics & tin on search for a magical cure. It really is like the Wizard of OZ- Arrow Style.

 

I don't think it is all hands on deck to save Oliver - I think it's mostly all hands on deck to keep that virus away from Starling City (with a very small side of hopefully saving Oliver). There's not going to be much to protect if some psycho unleashes a bioweapon there. 

[chaos is welcome]

Yeah, I suspect they need "All hands" to make sure the virus stays out of starling. His presence actually makes sense (for once).

I think gugs is playing the hell out of us on this wedding, I am not going to even try to guess what's going to happen, but I really don't think N/O end up really married. But it won't be shocking if they do, just plain dumb.

I really wonder if this is an exceedingly long game with argus involvement. That whole "everything that's happened has lead me here" before the olicity bang from oliver makes me think this. I don't think Oliver is brainwashed and Felicity either knows by "the we trusted you" or she is really, really desperate for him to be Oliver and not Alsahim. I can buy either, but no matter what this whole plot makes <0 sense.

[Carrie Ann]

The three-episode reign of Al Sahim feels really crowded, and I have no idea how they're going to satisfyingly resolve all of this in two episodes while hitting all the emotional beats they would need to in order for it to be worthwhile.

 

I would just assume that they won't satisfyingly resolve it, and it won't hit the emotional beats, and it won't feel worthwhile. I say this based on...every other big game-changer that's happened so far this season. Particularly Oliver's death, which suffered from the same problems--it happened too fast, the team accepted it too easily, and the emotional payoff never came through. The Sara-murder plot had the opposite problem--it dragged on WAY too long, made everyone involved seem stupider, and the emotional beats were hit over and over to the point of exhaustion. There's basically no way this LOA thing is going to feel satisfying.

 

I've now convinced myself that Oliver and Nyssa are going to actually marry, ugh. I didn't think the wedding was supposed to be "shocking," but I had hoped that it would get interrupted and they'd surprise us with another wedding. 

 

Anyway, terrible bitch alert: I don't think anything Oliver's done has been so awful that it would be bad if he was faking. If the drugs are having an effect on him, then at the beginning when he saw Diggle, he might have known that wasn't Diggle. He'd been being drugged for 3 weeks - surely that wasn't his first hallucination. Maybe he didn't know who it really was, but he could kill the whole League of Assassins if it made Ra's believe he was brainwashed and allowed him to carry out whatever plan to neutralize the LoA and I wouldn't hold it against him or think he'd regressed. I feel the same way about Nyssa, sorry to say. Not that I think he wouldn't have been upset by having to do it, and I'm not saying it's right, but dude's in deep now - he has no choice but to go with it. If he refused him, Ra's would surely kill him, and then who even knows what he'd do to the people Oliver loves for retribution. I'm actually not sure he was going to kill Diggle in that fight in that warehouse or whatever. And I wrote yesterday that I don't think he did anything terrible with the kidnapping either - it was honestly the most boring kidnapping I've ever seen.

 

Same to both. Oliver stabbed that dude through the shoulder. And maybe he is dead, who knows, but there was never a chance--faking or no--that Oliver was going to get through this without killing someone. When he agreed to go through this, his goal of not killing was going to have to be compromised, period. And I don't think he looked even close to killing Dig in the big fight scene. I think he would have kept giving him chances to get away. With Nyssa...I agree that he may have seen that as a part of the price he had to pay, and he would have hated himself, but he would have done it.

 

And I honestly don't think there's anything more coming that's specifically directed toward Diggle. I could be wrong of course, but based on how people involved with the show tend to oversell almost everything, I'd say that what's happened so far is enough for Dig to feel betrayed. No matter the motive, Oliver risked Lyla's life and even put little Sara in some danger by leaving her alone. And, if he is faking, then he also lied to Dig. Frankly, that level of betrayal is more interesting to me than something huge, because I think that normal human beings would have a human reaction to that, and I liked this show better when the characters acted like humans sometimes. The last time Dig got seriously mad at Oliver was when Oliver chose to go after a hitman who'd just killed a kid's parents (and then tried to kill the kid, Laurel, and everyone else in the vicinity), instead of going after Deadshot with Dig and ARGUS. I mean, you can see Oliver's reasons there too, but that didn't make it okay for Dig.

 

The neckline is not very flattering on him.

 

I actually think BR looks pretty hot there, though I agree the outfit is silly-looking.

[quarks]

I'm assuming Ray is there because a) spinoff - so far, he's only done a couple of cool/heroic things on both shows, and Arrow's got about two episodes left to convince us to follow his superhero career, and b) within the context of the show, assuming Tatsu explains the virus, it makes sense to bring along another scientist type, especially since none of the characters on the show are really scientists, c) Team Arrow needs his plane. 

 

I've had a number of issues with Ray this season, but bringing him along to Nanda Parbat really isn't one of them.  The real question is why Team Arrow isn't using the mystical one hour transport system between Nanda Parbat and Starling City. And also, why no one on this show seems to be suffering from jet lag. I know people in Starling City are primarily night people, but night still starts at different times in somewhere vaguely in Asia, maybe, and the U.S., and yes, it does take a couple of days to adjust to the time difference after flying back and forth to Japan even when you aren't running around in leather fighting people.

 

Though I'm increasingly convinced that Nanda Parbat is actually in Oregon, since that's the only location that fits this zipping back and forth thing.

[kismet]

Sorry apinknightmare, I let my own wishes & desires cloud my thinking. :) Perhaps I just want an all out mission to save Oliver. If I'm being pratical & logistical than of course I will concede that the mission is about saving SC from the virus.

 

But anyway, back to the matter at hand. If everyone is in NP trying to stop the virus, who is protecting SC from people infiltrating there? Its a poor tactical decision to leave your home unprotected. Its like installing a top of the line security system, forgetting to turn it on and leaving the door unlocked. I understand there needs to be plotholes for it to work in TVland & BR needs a paycheck. Nevermind to put all the heroes in the same spot, its why the President & VP never fly together. But Im really concerned that no one thought to leave someone behind to watch over the city. And the SCPD does not count as able to protect the city from this. They have enough problems protecting the city on a good day.

 

ETA - I have no issue with Ray being in NP. It does make sense to bring him along to a certain degree. I have an issue with no one being in SC.

Edited May 1, 2015 by kismet

[Morena]

I would just assume that they won't satisfyingly resolve it, and it won't hit the emotional beats, and it won't feel worthwhile. I say this based on...every other big game-changer that's happened so far this season. Particularly Oliver's death, which suffered from the same problems--it happened too fast, the team accepted it too easily, and the emotional payoff never came through. The Sara-murder plot had the opposite problem--it dragged on WAY too long, made everyone involved seem stupider, and the emotional beats were hit over and over to the point of exhaustion. There's basically no way this LOA thing is going to feel satisfying.

 

 

Same to both. Oliver stabbed that dude through the shoulder. And maybe he is dead, who knows, but there was never a chance--faking or no--that Oliver was going to get through this without killing someone. When he agreed to go through this, his goal of not killing was going to have to be compromised, period. And I don't think he looked even close to killing Dig in the big fight scene. I think he would have kept giving him chances to get away. With Nyssa...I agree that he may have seen that as a part of the price he had to pay, and he would have hated himself, but he would have done it.

 

And I honestly don't think there's anything more coming that's specifically directed toward Diggle. I could be wrong of course, but based on how people involved with the show tend to oversell almost everything, I'd say that what's happened so far is enough for Dig to feel betrayed. No matter the motive, Oliver risked Lyla's life and even put little Sara in some danger by leaving her alone. And, if he is faking, then he also lied to Dig. Frankly, that level of betrayal is more interesting to me than something huge, because I think that normal human beings would have a human reaction to that, and I liked this show better when the characters acted like humans sometimes. The last time Dig got seriously mad at Oliver was when Oliver chose to go after a hitman who'd just killed a kid's parents (and then tried to kill the kid, Laurel, and everyone else in the vicinity), instead of going after Deadshot with Dig and ARGUS. I mean, you can see Oliver's reasons there too, but that didn't make it okay for Dig.

 

 

I actually think BR looks pretty hot there, though I agree the outfit is silly-looking.

perhaps he trusted that Ra's would stop him before actually killing Nyssa. After all, she is his daughter, even if Ras seems not to care her.

conjeture: last scene 3,x- MM talking to someone  and said:  well, everything turned out as planned. Now what?

unknown - Let's go to phase 2

Edited May 1, 2015 by Morena

[apinknightmare]

Sorry apinknightmare, I let my own wishes & desires cloud my thinking. :) Perhaps I just want an all out mission to save Oliver. If I'm being pratical & logistical than of course I will concede that the mission is about saving SC from the virus.

 

But anyway, back to the matter at hand. If everyone is in NP trying to stop the virus, who is protecting SC from people infiltrating there? Its a poor tactical decision to leave your home unprotected. Its like installing a top of the line security system, forgetting to turn it on and leaving the door unlocked. I understand there needs to be plotholes for it to work in TVland & BR needs a paycheck. Nevermind to put all the heroes in the same spot, its why the President & VP never fly together. But Im really concerned that no one thought to leave someone behind to watch over the city. And the SCPD does not count as able to protect the city from this. They have enough problems protecting the city on a good day.

 

Given Tatsu telling Felicity that she needs to fight for Oliver, I'm guessing some of it is about getting him back. But I think that's a back burner mission. :)

 

And logistically I can see why they'd all go to NP and leave the city unprotected. Getting that virus back isn't going to be easy and they'll need all the help they can get - there's not going to be anything left to protect if Ra's manages to get Oliver to unleash that bioweapon. What's letting a villains complete their evil deeds for a few days in order to keep the whole city from being wiped out?

[Morena]

maybe the wedding is interrupted because Diggle, Felicity, Tatsu, Laurel, Ray, MM arrive in NP and then the marriage will be between Roy/Thea (surprise)

Edited May 1, 2015 by Morena

[AyChihuahua]

I really, really think we should all be prepared for none of this to make any sense.  None of the actual completed storylines have so far (seriously, a major US city officially abandons an entire section to a crime boss because he threatens some city councilmen? really?), and the threads left dangling are many and varied.  I genuinely believe this is just a totally terrible season of a show that is likely never to recover. 

[steeledwithakiss]

In the canadian promo who Oliver is talking to when he says they need help? Maseo? I say Oliver because he used his Oliver's voice not Al Sahim's. So it means he's the one sending Tatsu to warn TA about the biothreat. The promo pretty much confirmed to me Oliver is faking it (I'm sure the Asian one will be even more revealing). And Felicity "if you want to do something now is the time" and then Oliver closing the door on them yeah, pretty obvious he's playing them. Also it would explain Diggle still being angry with him because he might forgive brainwashing faster than using his family to convinve Ra's he's all in.

[statsgirl]

I hate this Ra's arc so much, I can't wait for it to be done. But now that Damian Darhk is connected to it too, it's going to ruin season 4, I just know it.  I want Felicity's father to be nowhere near this mess.

 

3x22 is the episode that is supposed to have "the most insane cliffhanger we've ever done".  So what could that be?

Ouch. So Oliver isn't going to come clean yet and regain his real identity.  Either that or they let the audience know Oliver was doing a long con but he finds himself trapped  as Al Sah-Him and unable to save whatever/whoever needs saving.

 

I am also leaning toward Oliver and Nyssa actually marrying (sigh), but I cannot for the life of me figure out how this will advance the plot in any way. It seems like a completely offensive and useless wrench to throw in the plans, and I can't imagine how they're going to go anywhere interesting with it. 

Comics!  It happened in comics therefore they must do it on the show.  I really think that 90% of what went wrong this season is because they thought that what worked in comics was going to work on screen. A clue:  no. Different audience, different media, different times.

 

Other than that, it's yet another stall for Olicity. You remember how much we loved Sara/Oliver and Raylicity, right?  So now Oliver and Felicity have Nyssa and all her baggage between them.

I hate this Ra's arc so much, I can't wait for it to be done. But now that Damian Darhk is connected to it too, it's going to ruin season 4, I just know it.  I want Felicity's father to be nowhere near this mess.

 

3x22 is the episode that is supposed to have "the most insane cliffhanger we've ever done".  So what could that be?

Ouch. So Oliver isn't going to come clean yet and regain his real identity.  Either that or they let the audience know Oliver was doing a long con but he finds himself trapped  as Al Sah-Him and unable to save whatever/whoever needs saving.

 

I am also leaning toward Oliver and Nyssa actually marrying (sigh), but I cannot for the life of me figure out how this will advance the plot in any way. It seems like a completely offensive and useless wrench to throw in the plans, and I can't imagine how they're going to go anywhere interesting with it. 

Comics!  It happened in comics therefore they must do it on the show.  I really think that 90% of what went wrong this season is because they thought that what worked in comics was going to work on screen. A clue:  no. Different audience, different media, different times.

 

Other than that, it's yet another stall for Olicity. You remember how much we loved Sara/Oliver and Raylicity, right?  So now Oliver and Felicity have Nyssa and all her baggage between them.

[nksarmi]

I really, really think we should all be prepared for none of this to make any sense.  None of the actual completed storylines have so far (seriously, a major US city officially abandons an entire section to a crime boss because he threatens some city councilmen? really?), and the threads left dangling are many and varied.  I genuinely believe this is just a totally terrible season of a show that is likely never to recover. 

No!  Not giving up hope until Wednesday!  They can still recover some of it - enough for me to hang on to season four anyway!

 

Malcolm can be evil and working with someone for a greater plan....the wedding can be Thea and Roy still... and Oliver can show an ounce of intelligence at some point and they can tell me it was a con - TA did it with Roy in prison - Oliver can do it still with Tatsu and Maseo!

[AyChihuahua]

I think the cliffhanger could be Oliver about to kill Felicity on Ra's orders, except that right after that he heads to CC to help Barry.  Really, though, any cliffhanger involving Oliver at all has that same issue.  It will have to be somewhat addressed on another show.  So weird.

[chaos is welcome]

I think the cliffhanger could be Oliver about to kill Felicity on Ra's orders, except that right after that he heads to CC to help Barry.  Really, though, any cliffhanger involving Oliver at all has that same issue.  It will have to be somewhat addressed on another show.  So weird.

I think it's a possibility Alsahim does something really heinous (killing f is a possibility) and it's all fixed on flash the following week by an alternate time line scenario. Then even if marriage happens, it doesn't matter.

Maybe the virus actually gets released and Oliver goes to Barry for help, reverse flash battle, alternate timeline. Who knows. It's Shocking, after all.

[nksarmi]

You know I just can't figure out how to fit Oliver's trip to CC on Flash into any of this.  It can't be before the wedding.  If everyone is in NP in the next episode, the cliff hanger is that he leaves them there locked up and flies out to destroy SC.  So he just happens to swing by CC in the process and what - gets Star Lab to cook up a cure real quick? Didn't they say Barry was coming to Arrow in the finale?  Maybe Barry has to run all over the city giving people antidote?  So then what Maseo stays behind to free everyone on NP so they can get back to SC for the finale?

 

And is the plane scene with Nyssa, Oliver, and Ra's the two of them finally killing Ra's?????

[AyChihuahua]

I personally don't think time travel is going to be a thing in any meaningful way on Arrow, and I very much doubt the CW would let the "hero" kill the primary and quite popular love interest, even temporarily.  But, who the heck knows with this show.

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, I'd be surprised if time travel figured in, but who knows. I wouldn't put it past them, especially since they do take for granted that viewers of Arrow also watch The Flash. 

 

I know the wedding topic has been exhausted, but I was just reading wedding theories on Tumblr and saw this quote from MG: 

 

 

Think the event will get interrupted somehow? Executive producer Marc Guggenheim assures EW the duo really are getting hitched: “It’s both a wedding and a marriage,” he says. “The ceremony actually finishes. It does reach a conclusion.”

 

Why doesn't he just come out and say they'll be married? He makes it sound like the wedding ceremony and the marriage are two different things because a ceremony finishing and reaching a conclusion does not necessarily mean the couple is married and I JUST WANT THIS TO BE OVER ALREADY. 

[TwistedandBored]

Based on the clothes and what I have seen so far…the LoA has a very deep Middle East culture. Too bad Ra's is not. Honestly, if they were going this way…why didn't they hire an actor from those Countries? I can believe Nyssa is from there but not Ra's. 

[looptab]

Weren't we supposed to learn why Nyssa went back to Starling City? If it was just that she had stolen the virus, then *slow clap* You're so clever, writers! /sarcasm

Why would she take the virus with her in the very city Ra's was planning to have his Heir release it? Or was it so she could keep an eye on Oliver and if/when he accepted the offer?

 

ETA: I ask this here since I don't remember if we were supposed to find out in episode 21 or the next.

Edited May 1, 2015 by looptab

[catahoulamama]

Yeah, I'd be surprised if time travel figured in, but who knows. I wouldn't put it past them, especially since they do take for granted that viewers of Arrow also watch The Flash. 

 

I know the wedding topic has been exhausted, but I was just reading wedding theories on Tumblr and saw this quote from MG: 

 

 

Why doesn't he just come out and say they'll be married? He makes it sound like the wedding ceremony and the marriage are two different things because a ceremony finishing and reaching a conclusion does not necessarily mean the couple is married and I JUST WANT THIS TO BE OVER ALREADY. 

I've seen some theories that Ray is there in NP because he officiates an Olicity wedding on the sly BEFORE Oliver's wedding to Nyssa so the wedding to Nyssa isn't valid.  I can't really see how they'd even make *that* work at this point.  Ra's would surely kill Felicity to get his way if that was the case.

 

Everything has been so rushed and crammed together this season. It feels like the final episode needs to be an hour of "While you were watching Arrow, here's what really happened" and they show us everything we should have seen all season to make it all make some kind of sense. It just feels like there has to be a lot that's occurred that we've not been privvy to, but this is a TV show, so we should have seen it!  I'm fully prepared to write this entire season off unless they pull some astounding magic out nowhere, but I'm not holding my breath. 

[AyChihuahua]

I'd be glad for Barry to help in the finale, especially since Oliver is helping him.  (Plus I just love the Barry/Oliver dynamic.)  More importantly, Reverse Flash is a Flash villain specifically, whereas Ra's is a Justice League villain.  Battling Ra's should be the real All-Star Team-Up. 

 

"I've seen some theories that Ray is there in NP because he officiates an Olicity wedding on the sly BEFORE Oliver's wedding to Nyssa so the wedding to Nyssa isn't valid.  I can't really see how they'd even make *that* work at this point.  Ra's would surely kill Felicity to get his way if that was the case."

 

Totally hear you that this isn't your theory, but that is the silliest thing I've ever heard.  Ra's would so not care if a legally meaningless ceremony precedes his own chosen legally meaningless ceremony.  It's like these people have never been married...you can't just randomly have an officiant pronounce you man and wife and suddenly it's so...there are license requirements and, in most states, waiting periods.  Plus again there are requirements for overseas ceremonies to be recognized in the US.  Plus agreed, if Ra's did care he'd just chop off her head, and boom, Oliver's available again.

Edited May 1, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Carrie Ann]

Why doesn't he just come out and say they'll be married? He makes it sound like the wedding ceremony and the marriage are two different things because a ceremony finishing and reaching a conclusion does not necessarily mean the couple is married and I JUST WANT THIS TO BE OVER ALREADY. 

 

I think he has tried to say this in every way he can, and it's probably just an accident that he hasn't yet used the words "they are married." I think the only reason he's leaving any part of this in question is because it's "only" a League marriage, not recognized by any law. Hoping against hope to be wrong, and that there's some other twist, but am fully expecting the O/N wedding to complete without an O/F wedding first to invalidate it further.

[apinknightmare]

It just seems ridiculous to me that with the pics out and the jig up why he wouldn't just say "the ceremony is real. Oliver and Nyssa will be married by League custom" or something.

Edited May 1, 2015 by apinknightmare

[looptab]

Because he is cackling like a troll reading the crazy wedding theories! :)

[catahoulamama]

Because he is cackling like a troll reading the crazy wedding theories! :)

Absolutely THIS!  Marc lives to troll.  Some of the theories are so detailed and amazing all I can think is that the fandom gives the writers/showrunners too much credit sometimes - the theories are way beyond what they'd ever do or be capable of putting on the show.

[tarotx]

I'm trying to find some kind of plot reason for a potential Nyssa/Oliver marriage. I wonder if there is a chance Nyssa will be connected to the big bads next season. If she has issues with her dad what are the chances she would be in contact with his arch nemesis Damien Darhk? Plus isn't she half Russian? Perhaps she will have some kind of Bratva connection as well.

[Chaser]

I like Nyssa and I think she would be awesome on a recurring status But I don't want her to be another Ray Palmer, a special special guest star. In fact put both her and Laurel on a recurring status and she can just pop in every once in a while. Fix Quentin and he can go back to being the Commission Gordan of the Arrow verse.

 

I'm missing the days of it being about Oliver Queen.

 

I'm still decorating my bubble in regards to this whole wedding thing.

[Menrva]

Is it confirmed that the "marriage" is between 2 people and not some sort of abstract "marriage" of two disparate things, like Team Arrow and LoA?

Also, is it possible that the ceremony and the marriage are two separate things? Or that the wedding is somehow invalidated? I seem to have The Princess Bride on the brain, because I keep thinking about the wedding ceremony where Buttercup seems to have married Prince Humperdinck, but Westley deems it invalid because she never said "I do".

Really, the only conclusion I really want is Ra's head on a pike, preferably at Nyssa's hand. Lazarus Pit your way out of that, you sick SOB.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Menrva

[catahoulamama]

I'm trying to find some kind of plot reason for a potential Nyssa/Oliver marriage. I wonder if there is a chance Nyssa will be connected to the big bads next season. If she has issues with her dad what are the chances she would be in contact with his arch nemesis Damien Darhk? Plus isn't she half Russian? Perhaps she will have some kind of Bratva connection as well.

It's so funny. So much of the fandom this year is trying *so hard* to find reasons to have this all make sense and in the end, will it?  I'm just beyond ready for Season 4. I'm hopeful next season will get into the Bratva storyline and I'll thoroughly enjoy the return of Anatoly (and, NGL, Amell speaking fake Russian is smokin' hot).  If they can tie Nyssa into that somehow, I'm cool with that, too.  I like her. She's badass, although the more she's around (especially in fight sequences) she helps demonstrate how inept Laurel still looks, so not sure how keen they'd be on keeping her around on a regular basis. ;)

[AyChihuahua]

There are kind of two separate "is the marriage valid" questions: (1) is it valid/completed by League tradition; and (2) is it valid/completed outside League tradition.  Frankly, the fact that Guggie has said he doesn't know that it will continue into S4 implies pretty strongly that it's Oliver and Nyssa married in terms of the League, because that would meaningless outside the League.  If it were Roy and Thea I don't see why they would get divorced before S4.  It could have been a fakeout with Felicity subbed-in for Nyssa (although I still don't see why TA would do that) under a heavy veil, but the pics clearly rule that out.  So it's almost certainly Oliver and Nyssa, for-real married according to the League, but it doesn't continue into S4 because by the end of the season Oliver's no longer in the League.

 

I'd actually now like the League to be just totally destroyed.  Before I was okay with Nyssa killing Ra's and running it herself, but I just hate this whole thing so very much that any mention of it in the future will taint any moment during which it's mentioned.   

[Angel12d]

Yeah, I kinda think the O/N wedding will go ahead because everyone seems to think it won't. I bet the real twist happens outside of that. But I wouldn't be surprised if Oliver hallucinates or pictures Felicity in Nyssa's place because of course.

 

And I can totally see MG getting a kick out of writing Nyssa dropping into town next season and saying something soap-y and cheesy like 'Hello husband' just as he's about to make out with Felicity or something because that's how MG rolls. Haha no. At least the marriage won't be real though. That's something. 

[AyChihuahua]

"And I can totally see MG getting a kick out of writing Nyssa dropping into town next season and saying something soap-y and cheesy like 'Hello husband' just as he's about to make out with Felicity or something because that's how MG rolls. Haha no."

 

If they didn't try to play it like anyone was trying to make the "marriage" work, that would probably make me laugh.  I can just picture Nyssa's contemptuous/amused face as she says it.

[Angel12d]

If they didn't try to play it like anyone was trying to make the "marriage" work, that would probably make me laugh.  I can just picture Nyssa's contemptuous/amused face as she says it.

 

Oh, I think it would be played for laughs. It won't be a real marriage outside of the league and if Ra's is defeated and Nyssa takes over, maybe a link to the league would be beneficial for SC. Just theorizing but it's possible. No way will they try and make the marriage work though.

[nksarmi]

"And I can totally see MG getting a kick out of writing Nyssa dropping into town next season and saying something soap-y and cheesy like 'Hello husband' just as he's about to make out with Felicity or something because that's how MG rolls. Haha no."

 

If they didn't try to play it like anyone was trying to make the "marriage" work, that would probably make me laugh.  I can just picture Nyssa's contemptuous/amused face as she says it.

If KL was married to SA in real life - it would be amazingly funny.  As is, if done right, it could be a cute gag and they can even have Sara make a playful comment about both Oliver and Laurel trying to steel her girl and make me laugh.  Heck, it would almost be worth it to have any amount of comedy back on Arrow!

[Angel12d]

One thing I'm pleased about in that canadian promo is how Laurel is shouting at Oliver too, so all the negative comments about Felicity whining at Oliver can STFU. 

[Soulfire]

And I can totally see MG getting a kick out of writing Nyssa dropping into town next season and saying something soap-y and cheesy like 'Hello husband' just as he's about to make out with Felicity or something because that's how MG rolls. Haha no. At least the marriage won't be real though. That's something.

Add in that comment in the presence of both Felicity and Baby Mama for ultimate soap-value.

(I should probably delete this later so Guggs doesn't get any ideas.)

[Morena]

I read this theory:  What if Thea injected something in Oliver's arm when she shot him with the arrow

then Oliver's memories begin to resurface

[Starfish35]

Thinking a little more about this. Yeah, I think when Diggle finds out that Oliver's been faking the whole thing (which is my current belief even though not everything makes sense) he's going to be seriously angry, and that's going to be what he has a hard time forgiving going into season four, not any kind of physical injury. I think Felicity will probably forgive Oliver pretty quickly, if the sunset highway thing is any indication, but Diggle is going to see what happened as a serious betrayal of their friendship/brotherhood.

I don't know how they will have Laurel react - whether this will driver her even further away from Oliver, or whether they'll have her be understanding. I'm leaning toward the former, but I could see them doing the latter.

I think Thea will forgive him too. So maybe he ends the season reconciled with Felicity and Thea, but not so much with Diggle and Laurel?

Edited May 1, 2015 by Starfish35