Spoiler Discussion Thread

[BkWurm1]

I wonder if Akio was also LP'd, hence Maseo being in the LoA? 

 

I wonder if that's how they recruit for the LoA?  We save you from drowning, or we'll bring back to life someone you love.

If that had happened, would Maseo be so estranged from Tatsu?

 

Perhaps part of his sign of allegiance was to forswear any other commitments, which would include his marriage bonds.  So to save my son I must give up my son type thing. 

[Guest]

I don't care that Laurel is getting the canary cry. But I don't think it should be this season. I feel like everything has happened way too fast for her this season - even being called Black Canary which started pretty much as an insult by her own father. I don't know. All the newbie heroes this season just seem to have everything handed to them. Meanwhile we're 7/8 years into Oliver's journey and he's still dealing with so much shit and oh yeah. He's still not Green Arrow. WTF. 

[BkWurm1]

Felicity offers an observation about the kind of man she's attracted to in the next episode of #TheFlash

https://twitter.com/FlashTVNews/status/584818204045811713

 

Attracted to but doesn't love since she's more passionate about hospital Jello. 

 

https://twitter.com/FlashTVNews/status/584818486561509376

Oh good lord.  Does that mean that she's going to open her mouth and a sonic scream is going to come out?  I am going to be rolling around that floor if that actually happens.  Anything else is just a variation on Sara's gadget.  Frankly, if I was Laurel, I'd want a reusable sonic bomb like before, plus maybe one that does an electric magnetic pulse, and another that shocks people, maybe even get a mini freeze ray or something.  Why stop at only a sonic scream? 

I don't care that Laurel is getting the canary cry. But I don't think it should be this season. I feel like everything has happened way too fast for her this season - even being called Black Canary which started pretty much as an insult by her own father. I don't know. All the newbie heroes this season just seem to have everything handed to them. Meanwhile we're 7/8 years into Oliver's journey and he's still dealing with so much shit and oh yeah. He's still not Green Arrow. WTF. 

I'm at the point where I don't want the Green Arrow, that sound to my ears too comic book silly.  Why state the obvious when there aren't Black Arrows or pink Arrows competing and the one we would have called Red Arrow is known as Arsenal?  I have to assume Quentin was pissed and started spreading the Black Canary name around to set Laurel apart from her sister the more pure Canary so now I'm conditioned to think the added color, if Oliver gets it, is not a good thing.  

[nksarmi]

I don't care that Laurel is getting the canary cry. But I don't think it should be this season. I feel like everything has happened way too fast for her this season - even being called Black Canary which started pretty much as an insult by her own father. I don't know. All the newbie heroes this season just seem to have everything handed to them. Meanwhile we're 7/8 years into Oliver's journey and he's still dealing with so much shit and oh yeah. He's still not Green Arrow. WTF. 

Wouldn't becoming GA mean that Oliver would have to actually be a little funny and smile once in awhile?  I mean, isn't GA supposed to be a lighter, snarkier version of Batman?  Even Batman smiles and cracks jokes now and then for goodness sake!  I will take GA in heartbeat if it means Oliver - and the show - can lighten up a little bit.

 

I know I'm in the minority, but I'm glad they are giving Laurel something that can make her capable in the field.  This is Black Canary for goodness sake.  She is a full fledged member of the Justice League.  In the Young Justice cartoon, she was the designated combat trainer for the likes of Aqualad, Kid Flash, and Superboy.  Come on!  The woman is supposed to be a bad ass - let's move her along a bit so I can enjoy her.  I don't expect the show to go 10 years like Smallville so I'm not sure I want to invest 4 seasons watching her "journey."

[Starfish35]

Eh. Short of a recast and a costume redesign I'm not ever going to like Laurel as BC no matter how much training she gets, so....whatever. I don't care about Cisco building her a Canary Cry device - like apinknightmare I haven't understood why she wasn't using Sara's already. But an actual sonic scream? Uhhhh. No.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Starfish35

[Guest]

Wouldn't becoming GA mean that Oliver would have to actually be a little funny and smile once in awhile?  I mean, isn't GA supposed to be a lighter, snarkier version of Batman?  Even Batman smiles and cracks jokes now and then for goodness sake!  I will take GA in heartbeat if it means Oliver - and the show - can lighten up a little bit.

 

Um, that's exactly my point. I have nothing against Oliver becoming GA. All I was saying was I'm kind of baffled that he's still not there yet while Laurel basically has all the things that make her BC in one season. It just doesn't seem right. He's the protagonist. Laurel is not.

[apinknightmare]

 But an actual sonic scream? Uhhhh. No.

 

Yeah, if it's going to be more like her comic book capabilities, then I'm guessing it'll be something she either holds up to her mouth or is like a collar around her throat, lmao. Whatever, I really don't care enough about Laurel to care about this, haha.

[Chaser]

Yeah confused as to why she only used the sonic scream for one episode. She needs all the help she can get and I've thought this would be how she would get it anyway.

I'm annoyed for Oliver's story again because it's another rite of message for the character that is done at wrap speed. The others being the mask and the name.

If it is a device that allows her to scream literally .... I can only imagine the snarky comments. Lol

[Morena]

it's funny that this season tried to sell LL as BC, but the kids still want to dress as Sara or Felicity, I dont see anyone wanting to be BC

[statsgirl]

The thing for me is that this isn't the real Black Canary, she isn't even a reasonable facsimile.  Sara was that.

 

I have accepted that the characters on the show are different than the ones in the comics (and that Dinah Laurel Lance's motivation isn't to be a superhero like her mother), so I don't see why they have to end up identical to the comics when the characters themselves and their journeys are so different.  I really don't want to see Felicity break up with Oliver and marry Ed Raymond, and I don't need to see Laurel with the sonic cry, unless it's like the one Sara used..

 

Um, that's exactly my point. I have nothing against Oliver becoming GA. All I was saying was I'm kind of baffled that he's still not there yet while Laurel basically has all the things that make her BC in one season. It just doesn't seem right. He's the protagonist. Laurel is not.

Either they really, really love her, or I'm wondering if KC is leaving the show and that's why they're giving Laurel everything right now.

[Chaser]

I really do want to watch Felicity with the Flash crew so I may have to watch this with the FF button. Hoping against logic that the line reads better on screen and her and Barry have a BFF talk like the train conversation.

I have no desire to watch Quentin on the Flash anymore. Not after this last episode and not with Laurel there. I imagine it's going to be a lot of hero worship from Cisco, which fits his character, and a lot soaking up the praise from Laurel, which fits her character. No thank you.

[calliope1975]

Could it be Slade Wilson or Nyssa? Both are popular I would love to see more on my screen, both can hold their own against a range of characters. I'm not sure how they would write Slade in, but I always thought he would make a good addition to the Suicide Squad if they ever spun it off.

 

I'm betting it's not Slade. MB has his new show, and he hasn't been shy recently about throwing shade at the writing. It's beyond deserved shade, but EPs generally don't like actors badmouthing their work. 

 

More, in my eyes, unearned things for Laurel. Whatever. I'll just try to pretend she doesn't exist. I'm developing quit the skill for only seeing the Arrow that I want to watch. Lately, it's been, like, 10 minutes long each week. 

 

The thing for me is that this isn't the real Black Canary, she isn't even a reasonable facsimile.  Sara was that.

 

 

I agree with statsgirl. Black Canary was Sara. Full stop. Anything else is a poor facsimile, and I'm glad CL is coming back. 

Edited April 5, 2015 by calliope1975

[steeledwithakiss]

Fastforwarding has been the only way for me to enjoy the show but when some people share scenes with people I like or keep showing up in the lair and the action scenes I used to like it's become mission impossible.

On the plus side, I really really like the Barry/Felicity friendship. They were what on 5 episodes together? But the rapport between the actors and the characters is so good you believe they are friends who can trust each other and confide in each other. Damn now I'm tempted again to watch the crossover.

[statsgirl]

I'd watch the crossover if it weren't for that line, and the fear that I have that Felicity will be Ray propping the whole time.  Hopefully she will have enough scenes with Barry and Barry's fears about Wells that will take the Ray taste from my mouth.  I wonder if she tells Oliver about Wells and that's partly how he ends up in the Flash episode in LoA gear.

 

I had a totally crack thought -- what if KC is leaving the show to do other things and that's why they brought Sara back (if CL will be playing Sara) from the dead, dead, dead because Laurel's BC will be off-screen and they don't want to leave the universe without a Canary?

[Guest]

Either they really, really love her, or I'm wondering if KC is leaving the show and that's why they're giving Laurel everything right now.

 

They really really love love love her. She's not going anywhere.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Guest

[steeledwithakiss]

That theory about KC leaving the show is really cruel, because then it gives me hope and you know how that show likes to crush any kind of hope. Anyways I don't think KC is leaving. MG keeps reassuring her fans CL coming back won't affect her storyline at all. As for her getting everything so fast, the writers are (according to last season interviews) convinced people didn't like LL because she was not in the action and not BC. The canary cry for me is maybe the only good idea they had, because LL should rely on gadgets until she can actually hold her own. That's the "now she can fight LOA fighters after 2 weeks of training with Nyssa" that's completely unbelievable for me (well that and the whole BC storyline if I'm being honest).

Felicity only there for propping Ray comes, unfortunately, with the territory. I'll probably watch in mute.

Edited April 6, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[Morena]

That theory about KC leaving the show is really cruel, because then it gives me hope and you know how that show likes to crush any kind of hope. Anyways I don't think KC is leaving. MG keeps reassuring her fans CL coming back won't affect her storyline at all. As for her getting everything so fast, the writers are (according to last season interviews) convinced people didn't like LL because she was not in the action and not BC. The canary cry for me is maybe the only good idea they had, because LL should rely on gadgets until she can actually hold her own. That's the "now she can fight LOA fighters after 2 weeks of training with Nyssa" that's completely unbelievable for me (well that and the whole BC storyline if I'm being honest).

Felicity only there for propping Ray comes, unfortunately, with the territory. I'll probably watch in mute.

perhaps CL's does not affect LL storyline because she will leave, ie  are independent events.anyway, if it is going, dont think Marc would say nothing now. And this applies to everyone. Remember Colin / Tommy.

[Chaser]

Its funny. They always say it's apathy that is worse then hate but that seems to be the biggest response to the Black Canary arc. The hate seems to be toned down but fans aren't jumping up and down for it either.

I am curious to see the reaction to her on The Flash, if the dynamic with Cisco is going to make her more likeable to audiences. I think it may work if the keep her the straight Man, when she tries to be funny IMO KC can come across as condescending.

I'm glad to hear HIVE is going to be a big part of season 4, but can we please get something on Felicitys storyline next year?

I'm getting concerned she gets the Job of the floater and that's her only storyline.

[strikera0]

Cisco & Laurel is one of "our most fun stories" per @AJKreisberg. Cisco builds her a new Canary cry like the one from comics.

 

Yeah, sounds to me like they are going to give Laurel a device that is going to morph and amplify her natural scream to make her more like the BC in the comics. This is probably the closest we are ever going to get to an actual Canary cry on the show. I just hope they find a way to not make it look too silly.

[Sunshine]

I will be shocked (pleasantly but none the less shocked) if Felicity's role isn't that of the floater. They established her as the main bridge to Flash with Barry, Caitlin & Cisco. They have even name-dropped her a couple of times. She is getting a nemesis on Flash.

It's possible there is more than one reason (LI) they sent her to Palmer Island for most of S3. If her father is introduced next year I won't be surprised if he shows up on the spin-off. We got our first real hints in a RP centric story. If he is sciency, tekkie, it seems like that would be the best fit between Palmer & Stein.

They made her supportive of Laurel. She encouraged her when she was giving up. Potential Birds of Prey set-up for down the road?

The only hero-in-waiting they haven't had her interacting with is Thea. Thea as Speedy will be more GA sidekick than hero on her own.

They could establish Felicity and Oliver as a couple during the finale and then push the relationship to the background. He just mentions her or something when she's not around. My guess would be that S4 would be about establishing the comic book fighting team of Green Arrow & Black Canary. If they land that relationship successfully then they might take it further. Meanwhile Felicity has options in other cities if her relationship with Oliver falls through but she can still provide tech support for Arrow and Co.

No one on any of the shows has Felicity's technical & hacking abilities.

Also, assuming that the spin-off shoots in the same area, she could be in more than one show a week. Her screen time would just be very limited. They could even turn her back into the one-dimensional awkward character that some people miss.

[wonderwall]

You know, the reason why they're rushing Laurel's arc so much MAY be because they want HER to be the bridge? I mean, Cisco will love her, Sara will be in the spinoff... I think she could definitely be the bridge. 

[Guest]

I can't think of anything worse for Felicity's character than floating between three shows. It means they're trying to push her out of Arrow and lessen her storyline there while giving others (likely Laurel) more focus. Not interested in that at all. 

[wonderwall]

There's literally nothing FOR Laurel in Starling which is why I think it's her. She doesn't have anyone there (well except for Quentin except he hates her guts right now and they don't really hang out a lot in the first place). Felicity has Oliver, Diggle has his family, Roy has Thea who has Oliver... Laurel doesn't have that same connection. So it makes very little sense for it not to be her.

 

I'm going to try to remain optimistic :) Although we all know what good that did this season :p

[AyChihuahua]

I think KC would like that, too.  More visibility.

[HighHopes]

You know, the reason why they're rushing Laurel's arc so much MAY be because they want HER to be the bridge? I mean, Cisco will love her, Sara will be in the spinoff... I think she could definitely be the bridge. 

This was my thought as well. And if it's true that KC only signed a 3 year contract, her's would be up after this season. If she were to do all 3 shows, I'm sure it wouldn't be a full 23 episodes a season put together (and if so, it wouldn't be as intense of a filming schedule). It would probably leave KC time for her to focus on her fashion blog and attend whichever fashion weeks she would like to. And if she does have a more superpowered sonic cry, that does seem to fit better on shows like The Flash and this upcoming spinoff. 

Edited April 6, 2015 by HighHopes

[SleepDeprived]

Lol if they do give Laurel the canary cry from the comics that comes from her scream and it turns out to be a choker-like device that has to be attached to the neck of her costume. That will totally complete her dominatrix-inspired, buckle-happy BC costume. Do it, costume designers!

 

I can't think of anything worse for Felicity's character than floating between three shows. It means they're trying to push her out of Arrow and lessen her storyline there while giving others (likely Laurel) more focus. Not interested in that at all. 

 

This. Her character has suffered enough hits this season. Hard pass to her becoming the floater between the 3 shows. I don't care how flower-y the EPs or actors try to describe the floater's status as the "inter-connective" tissue between the 3 shows. I fear that, if it is Felicity, she won't be getting the focus on her and her own storyline but on other heroes and their crisis of the week, much like how she was used for Palmer's and Laurel's "hero" journey. Hard no to the floater being Diggle, as well, since I want both Diggle and Felicity to stay on Arrow and not keep leaving/missing big episodes for "connectivity" purposes.

 

I do like the idea that it could be Laurel. It would definitely give her more experience in the field if she gets to work with all the other costumes of the 3 shows. This goes for Roy, as well. I'm also partial to the Lyla idea. I definitely think an organization similar to A.R.G.U.S./actual Justice League-like watchtower command, with Lyla at the helm, would be a logical way to handle the team-ups and superheroing in the 3 shows, especially the spinoff.

[Chaser]

This is driving me crazy. Someone needs to ask who the floater is going to be right now.

[looptab]

You know, I like the idea of it being Laurel because it could also be a way to test her with other audiences. She's forever ruined for a good chunk of the Arrow fandom, but maybe on another show where she is written consistently she could gain some love.

But, as much as I'd like her to float around, I believe it's unfair saying she could go because she has no connections in SC anymore. She has her father, her job-if she doesn't quit/lose it- and the Queens are old friends-at least we are supposed to believe that. Apparently she must have formed a strong bond with the rest of the Team as well.

Edited April 6, 2015 by looptab

[Sakura12]

It's funny the Arrow fans want Laurel to go to the spin off. As a non Arrow fan I want her to stay far away from the other shows I watch.

[wonderwall]

But, as much as I'd like her to float around, I believe it's unfair saying she could go because she has no connections in SC anymore. She has her father, her job-if she doesn't quit/lose it- and the Queens are old friends-at least we are supposed to believe that. Apparently she must have formed a strong bond with the rest of the Team as well.

 

I agree Laurel has Quentin and her job. But I don't think any of the other points you made are reasons for her to stay in Starling. I didn't say that she has no connections in Starling, I did point out that she has Quentin (I forget that she's a lawyer at times), but Oliver/Thea/TA aren't reasons for her to stay. She simply doesn't have a strong bond with them. And when I mean strong bond, I mean, I can see her going months without ever talking to them and not be affected. Laurel's strongest bond is with her father. Granted, right now it's a bit severed, but even then, I don't see the need for Laurel to hang around Starling for him. 

 

Laurel's job is a bit trickier. I really wonder what they're going to do with that because I simply can't believe that she has the time to be a decent lawyer and go out at night and be a vigilante. Regardless, if Laurel can go to CC for a day or two, then she can totally float. The writers aren't really known for their common sense though lol

 

Regardless, even though Felicity's job is  more lenient when it comes to taking days off, Felicity has her own arc coming up (regarding her father) in the next season, she has stronger ties with Roy/Digg and if Oliver is in Starling then she obviously has stronger ties with him. Felicity's heart is set on helping her team. I don't see her abandoning that because they're family to her. They aren't, however, family to Laurel. 

 

Also this is coming from a person who is planning on watching the spinoff just for Sara and Rory the Roman. I just think it's best for Laurel to be in all shows instead of just the one that she's most resented in. 

Edited April 6, 2015 by wonderwall

[kismet]

I was hoping this line won't make it to the episode. It's disrespectful on so many levels.

It's gonna be a hard episode to watch already from a r/f standpoint. Between the way he treated her in 317 & her jello response in 318, the writing is on the wall. So cheesy insulting lines like that are just gonna be harder to take. Add to that the events of the sizzle reel, im just really irritated that the cw is messing up the timeline. The flash is generally happier but sometimes I don't really like the characterizations because they make them juvenile sounding. That line is classic juvenile material something you would hear out of sweet valley high. Its one of the reasons I dread diggle or felicity being considered fornthe floater.

[statsgirl]

There's literally nothing FOR Laurel in Starling which is why I think it's her. She doesn't have anyone there (well except for Quentin except he hates her guts right now and they don't really hang out a lot in the first place).

She has her job as ADA, especially if Quentin dies when she'll be needed to be the city liaison for TA, and she's now a full fighting member of Team Arrow.

 

The other shows don't need her limited fighting skills.  The Flash has Barry and Laurel has nothing she can add to that show. The spin-off has Ray with his Super Suit and CL's character who has real fighting skills. If she comes on as Sara, it's going to make Laurel even more superfluous and silly on the show.  And if Rory is a regular, even less need for Laurel.

 

If Laurel stays next year, she'll stay on Arrow because it's the only show that has a use for her.

 

Felicity's tech skills (or being the  Starling City site head for PT) or Lyla's administrative ones are the only things that I can see making sense to link the three shows.

Edited April 6, 2015 by statsgirl

[looptab]

I agree Laurel has Quentin and her job. But I don't think any of the other points you made are reasons for her to stay in Starling. I didn't say that she has no connections in Starling, I did point out that she has Quentin (I forget that she's a lawyer at times), but Oliver/Thea/TA aren't reasons for her to stay. She simply doesn't have a strong bond with them. And when I mean strong bond, I mean, I can see her going months without ever talking to them and not be affected. Laurel's strongest bond is with her father. Granted, right now it's a bit severed, but even then, I don't see the need for Laurel to hang around Starling for him. 

 

Laurel's job is a bit trickier. I really wonder what they're going to do with that because I simply can't believe that she has the time to be a decent lawyer and go out at night and be a vigilante. Regardless, if Laurel can go to CC for a day or two, then she can totally float. The writers aren't really known for their common sense though lol

 

Regardless, even though Felicity's job is  more lenient when it comes to taking days off, Felicity has her own arc coming up (regarding her father) in the next season, she has stronger ties with Roy/Digg and if Oliver is in Starling then she obviously has stronger ties with him. Felicity's heart is set on helping her team. I don't see her abandoning that because they're family to her. They aren't, however, family to Laurel. 

 

Also this is coming from a person who is planning on watching the spinoff just for Sara and Rory the Roman. I just think it's best for Laurel to be in all shows instead of just the one that she's most resented in. 

I see what you mean, but my point is that this is not an argument we can really hold on to. Yes, you didn't say she has no connections, but that there is nothing for her in SC from your POV. But that's debatable, and besides, we've seen them twisting the relationships-and everything else- as they please: for example, Diggle naming his daughter after Sara, or exchanging very few words with Felicity all season. From what we've seen this season, there is not that much of a difference between his relationships with Felicity, Roy, or Laurel. Aside from Diggle/Oliver, no other relationship has been given a strong family-like characterization. The same argument you made for Laurel could be made for Felicity- we don't really know what the state of her relationship with Oliver will be, Diggle- his strongest bond (main characters-wise) is with Oliver, but that wouldn't prevent him from going around, and his family wouldn't either, and Roy. 

 

We've seen them having no problem shipping Felicity away even though she has unique skills; they worked around that once, they could very well do it again. All this to say, except Oliver, they could find a way-if it makes sense or not, it doesn't concern them- for pretty much everyone. 

Edited April 6, 2015 by looptab

[steeledwithakiss]

Yeah I agree trying to apply logic, like who'd be the more useful or who wouldn't be missed, is useless. If they want to make it work they will, like a lot of things they did this season. I hope they are taking into account other factors though. Like Arrow without Felicity or Diggle just wouldn't be the same and it could be a risky move ratings wise for the show.

Edited April 6, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[Chaser]

Normally after a SA con appearance, I find something in the show to get excited about again. I got nothing after this one. 

 

In fact I'm seriously doubting its going to get any better. Someone mentioned that SA seemed subdued or not so excited, anyone else get that impression?

[kismet]

The more I read people's responses across the threads the more I like the idea of Laurel as the float if we're pulling from arrow cast. I just see more positives than negatives. It also could set the stage for a birds of prey or female based series/mini series. I wonder if they kept her role on flash out of the media intentionally to help amp or design her role as floater. Perhaps they are trying to keep it under wraps.

I'm not opposed to Lyla but I see her prioritizing raising her baby than focusing on travelling around managing crime teams. I also can't see arrow willing to shell out more money to pay her to put her under contract.

Unless oq is hanging out permanently in np, I can't see him functioning effectively or enjoyably (for us or him) without diggle or felicity. Didnt he say they might try something new & actually have him smile in s4? Fs & jd are 2 of the main people that make him smile. They are critically to a good & effective TA. Plus if u move ll into a more independent role than dig can get back in the field. And I disregard SA when he talks about the possibility of not knowing about future of olicity. He tends to sell whatever is currently happening on show, not future eps. Like people said when he was "dead" most of his interviews revolved around fact that his character couldn't do much since he was dead. So I don't connect that line with the potential of felicity as the floater.

Edited April 6, 2015 by kismet

[looptab]

I haven't seen the panel yet, but I guess what's worrying people after his response regarding olicity, is that other times he is been more encouraging, even if vague; see "It's always darkest before the dawn", or his answer at Paley Fest. I don't know how to interpret his latest comment, honestly.

[statsgirl]

He may just have been really tired.  He's been working 14 hours days for months now.  IIRC last year at this time he seems really low-key too and people started worrying.

[SonofaBiscuit]

On the one hand, I want Laurel to be the floater since it would reduce her role on Arrow.  On the other hand, I quit watching this show because I just can't deal with her, so the thought of her ruining two other shows for me is not appealing.  Hmm.  Feedback for Laurel has not always been so kind, so IMO, this would be a risky move.  

 

Don't want Diggle or Felicity to be the floater, either.  I'm basically 3/4 of the way out the door already, but I think that losing Felicity, in particular, would crush any tiny amount of investment that I still have.  Since she's got a contract, I wonder if they could force EBR to move between shows like that if she didn't want to.

[BkWurm1]

I don't care how flower-y the EPs or actors try to describe the floater's status as the "inter-connective" tissue between the 3 shows. I fear that, if it is Felicity, she won't be getting the focus on her and her own storyline but on other heroes and their crisis of the week, much like how she was used for Palmer's and Laurel's "hero" journey

 

That's exactly what would happen while the whole time MG will claim that she now has three storylines and is now more essential than ever and it's all such a terrible idea and we know how far in advance they write and film during the summer before it goes to air -- is it too soon to start flooding MG with how much we hate this idea?  I mean seriously if they did that it very likely would ruin by association all three shows for me.   Felicity is such the obvious choice it's either definitely not her or definitely her.   I'd rather she married Ray.  At least that is something that could be quickly fixed early next season but this floater idea once they pull the trigger on it, the quickest fix if by some miracle the network made them still would be sometime in January!

[Sunshine]

This might belong in the spin-off thread but my only concern is how it relates to Arrow.  AK was quoted at Wondercon as saying S4 of Arrow and S2 of The Flash will both work to set up the spin-off.  Some have all been assuming that Palmer leaves and somehow Oliver gets his company back.  I thought that might be where they were headed too.  What if they are not?  Assuming the spin-off is a mid-season replacement Palmer Island could exist within Arrow like it does now.  Felicity could still run between scenes in each "show".  Oliver could pop in but so could Sara, Laurel and all the other characters they plan on introducing.  SC has a population of 500,000+.  The city could certainly be home to more than one group of vigilantes. Oops I mean heroes. This could also leave an opening for the Black Canary show when Palmer Island moves to its new show.  You could have a Green Arrow (Diggle, Roy, Thea) story. A Black Canary story might feature Nyssa or some new character.  You could also have GA/BC team ups.  It would also allow Quentin to interact with both daughters assuming he survives this season.   

 

I do think they will set up Oliver in some sort of business.  My only experience with comics recently is the New52 (after Felicity was added).  He had a company but he was never shown there.  He just called the girlfriend who was running it whenever he needed something.  Green Lantern, Batman & Lex Luthor all dropped in for cameos.

 

I wonder if instead of a TV show based on DC comic characters we are going to get a Live!Action! comic book.  The emphasis does seems to be on costumed heroes. I think the stories would be a little more continuous than the comics though.  Otherwise I think they will lose viewers. (In 2.5 there is a kidnapping story that started in an issue and then was not touched upon again for a couple of issues.  It picked back up about the same time F decided to go for it with R onscreen).

 

They could do the same on Flash except with Stein Island or Cold Island.     

[AyChihuahua]

The issue is that the CW is a network that needs to make money on these (fairly expensive) shows.  They are not as driven by "art" as Guggie is...they want cash.  Only like 10% of viewers have come from comics.  If they switch them all to full-on live action comics, they will definitely start bleeding viewers.  So I wouldn't worry too much about that.  

 

I've noticed people on Tumblr getting pretty maudlin about Oliver joining the LOA and never seeing Felicity again.  If this were a comic book, he might stay in the LOA for a year or something...but there is just no way they're going to switch the show from the story of Oliver becoming the Green Arrow to basically a spy/assassin show.  It really would be like changing Alias to Gilmore Girls.  And yes, they'll probably be all melancholy during the sex scene because they THINK they'll never see each other again, but they're going to be a team again in an episode or two...because this is NOT a live action comic book.  I think the only things that will piss me off about that scene is if it is a dream or hallucination, or if time resets and neither of them remembers it.  Otherwise, even if they can't be together in S4 because of REASONS, they will finally have admitted their feelings for each other and actually had sex.  That is a HUGE step forward in their relationship.  

 

That is easy for me to say, though, because I'm watching Flash 22 (sucker for the heroic faceoff and love Gustin's chemistry with SA) for sure, but otherwise waiting until the season is over to make sure the ending doesn't totally suck before I watch.

[Morrigan2575]

The issue is that the CW is a network that needs to make money on these (fairly expensive) shows. They are not as driven by "art" as Guggie is...they want cash. Only like 10% of viewers have come from comics. If they switch them all to full-on live action comics, they will definitely start bleeding viewers. So I wouldn't worry too much about that.

Thank You!

Fandom always seems to forget that Guggie isn't the power behind the show, he has masters. Personally I think TPTB are CW and DC/WB. The CW wants a show/shows that will make $$, DC/WB is looking to build a connected DCTV universe. There are times when both powers are in sync and others where one will bend to the other. The CW needs a show that appeals to a much larger audience, including one that watches it's other (non comicbook) shows. Actually, DC needs a show/shows that appeal to a much wider audience as well, best selling DC c is less than 200k issues per month.

I know people will counter oh the CW only cares about masks...just look at TCAs. However, in hindsight that wasn't about promoting masks, that was obviously a pitch for the spin-off (Cold, Heatwave, Stein, Ronnie and Ray), hell I'm still wondering if KC/Laurel was also being pitched for the spin-off but for whatever reason they went with CL/Sara instead.

Back to spoiler/speculation

I think any time travel affect will be minimal on Arrow, probably a reset that allows Oliver/Team Arrow to go back to SC and being unknown

I think the Olicity sex scene is real but has a feel of last night on Earth sex. I don't think Olicity will be destroyed or anything in 321, merely Oliver embraces his new role, which causes issues

I think Felicity taking matters into her own hands (320) means she's going up against Ra's, MG said we'd be shocked/surprised who she stood up to next.

I think Roy goes to jail/prison for 319-322 or possibly goes on the run. I also think Thea is killed or mortally wounded in 319, forcing Oliver to take Ra's deal.

I think Damien Darhk may in fact be both the man who hired Deadshot to kill Andy and Felicity's father. I don't think Felicity will get shafted or cut from Arrow (as series regular) but I do think she'll be the "floater". she'll probably get 2 Flash episodes and 1 spin-off episode nect year.

As for AJK's comment about S4/2 setting up the spin-off, I wouldn't expect much, an episode of each show used to show what cause these characters to end up on the spin-off. Maybe 2 episodes of The Flash one for Firestorm/Stein and another for Cold/Heatwave.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

With AK saying that S4 of Arrow will be used to set up the spin-off (groan), I wonder if this "floater" that is going to drift between shows to tie them together hasn't even been introduced yet? If they're giving this person a storyline that will make it necessary for them to travel between cities/shows/whatnot, then maybe they'll get introduced at the beginning of next season when whatever storyline they're on will kick off on Arrow?

[Sunshine]

The only thing I feel sure about is that by the finale Oliver will decide he not only wants to be both Oliver Queen and the Arrow but that he can be.  How they get from here to there is beyond me but it is what I expect.  What happens with the other characters I have no clue. 

 

As for the CW, most of their funds comes from after-market IIRC. (Quarks has mentioned it several times and I may be using the wrong terminology.)  They are not as dependent on ratings to generate revenue for them.  That said, I am aware that MG is not the power behind the show.  However, when AK starts talking about both shows being used in S4/S2 to set up the spin-off I have to wonder if the almost disconnected Palmer section of Arrow is going to continue for a while.  The jarring difference in tone is one of the things I have hated the most about this season.

 

As for masks, until someone without a preordained destiny gets a real storyline as opposed to a one and done it is easy to think only the masks matter.  

[Sakura12]

 

I just don't see how that power isn't going to look stupid in live action. I liked Sara's device because it was a gadget not her screaming like an idiot. I liked the BC for her martial arts skills, but I'm sorry her power is dumb. But it's fitting to go to Laurel since she can't fight. Screaming like an idiot works for her.

[Morrigan2575]

With AK saying that S4 of Arrow will be used to set up the spin-off (groan), I wonder if this "floater" that is going to drift between shows to tie them together hasn't even been introduced yet? If they're giving this person a storyline that will make it necessary for them to travel between cities/shows/whatnot, then maybe they'll get introduced at the beginning of next season when whatever storyline they're on will kick off on Arrow?

I don't know, SA said an Arrow character, seems to imply someone already on Arrow? Yes, I suppose it could be someone introduced on Arrow next season but I would think he he'd have worded it differently.

ETA: nevermind

Edited April 6, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Chaser]

The wording was just weird all around. When I first read it, I thought he meant the person originated on Arrow but wasn't a main character and then I realized he meant they wouldn't be a main character on the spin-off.  That to me sounds like its a supporting character on the spin off who is the Floater, because otherwise why not say apart of the main cast. But I could just be trying to talk myself out of believing its Felicity.

 

The snark potential of a Laurel who just stands there and screams at whoever she is fighting. It would be like Christmas around here.

 

I'm okay with the thought of time travel if Oliver, Felicity, Diggle and Thea are protected from it. I don't want it to just be Oliver. They have to be careful with that though.

Edited April 6, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[tv echo]

I really like the idea of it being Lyla that ties the three shows together through a mysterious organization. Or even a baby Justic League. She's a solid character, originated on Arrow and relatively popular, and she doesn't fight except like a normal person so it wouldn't get in the way of the superheros on the other shows.  It also helps keeps the shows in somewhat different universes which they need to do otherwise whenever Oliver gets into trouble, Barry with his superspeed and Ray with his supersuit can get him out of it.  I just hope she gets paid for it though, one of them needs a paying job.

Reading your "baby Justice League" comment made me envision baby Sara in a mini superhero costume and brandishing a nerf baton.

 

This "who is the floater" question is being discussed on three threads here - it's confusing.  I've given my thoughts in the Spinoff thread on this issue here - basically, I'd like it to be Lyla as the new head of ARGUS (replacing Waller, who could be written out because of the Suicide Squad movie).  I don't see Laurel having anything that would qualify her for the job.  I don't want it to be Felicity or Diggle because it would reduce their roles/screentime on Arrow.

Edited April 6, 2015 by tv echo

[Sakura12]

If Sara's alive I hope she gets to meet baby Sara and baby Sara gets to know her namesake.