Indian Summers - General Discussion

[taanja]

30 minutes ago, Deanie87 said:

Welp, one thing was made certain to me this episode: given all that he has seen, I expect and Alice and Charlie's son to grow up to be more of a psychopath than his father and uncle combined.  He was just grinning away hours after his father was murdered next to him and Mummy shacked up with the nice, albeit sweaty and hysterical brown man.  Yeesh.

Not everyone got a happy ending.  I feel for Ralph's wife and, especially, Sooni and Aafrin's younger sister.  All of Mrs. Bennett's hopes and machinations are going to fall around that poor girl's head.  

Haha! Thanks for the laugh! I don't care about Ralph's wife, Madeline (she seems to be able to take care of herself thank you very much) but yes. Aafrin's youngest sister---whatshername -- will now be the focus of all her mother's aspirations.

[Matty]

Yes. It definitely snows in the northern part of India where Simla is located. That's where the Himalayas are!

[mojito]

And Simla is in the mountains, that's why it's a summer retreat. The snow made sense to me, although it seemed to be a freakish flurry.

Baapi did attend the after-wedding party, didn't he? That's where he was when he seemed to be praying. He just didn't show himself to Sooni and Aafrin. 

Ralphie's wife seemed amused by the idea of living under the same roof as Cynthia. Guess if you can't go home to Chicago, you can at least count on some fun drama between Ralph and Cynthia. Speaking of Cynthia, she seems to have been the character who evolved the most.

Aafrin and Alice should move to the Caribbean. They could blend in pretty well in some of those islands. I hope someone tells them that....

[candall]

Well, I was pretty happy with the finale--for a show they expected to spool out three more seasons.

I would have liked Charlie's death to have been longer and a little more satisfying.  They gave me that freeze frame of his horrified realization that Alice wasn't going to unlock the car door, but it's true that she wouldn't have saved Charlie so much as sacrificed all three of them to the mob, so:  partial credit.  (Closed captioning didn't have her whispering, "Suck this, Charlie," which is a shame.)

 

I did not understand at all what Ralph was trying to accomplish by telling His Excellency all about the pregnant spurned lover, the murder and Adam.  If felt as though he had some goal connected with getting Aafrin out of stir, but maybe he just enjoyed getting everything off his chest after a whole career of ass-kissing, soul-sucking diplomacy.

Chekov's poison pill went nowhere.

When Aafrin and Ralph were zipping along to save Alice, I really wanted Ralph to say, "I tendered my resignation" and Aafrin to say, "Me too!"

 

I liked Sooni with Scottish Pete better than Mustache, but I suppose they couldn't have both Dalal kids hooked up with the overlord race.  Although she said they were the "pioneers," eh?   In the next season, that will never happen, I'd have been interested in learning more about her family's conflict with Sooni's religious conversion.

Is everyone absolutely sure that wasn't Mami and Papi Dalal sitting at the wedding reception, right before the dancing started?  I'm a little face-blind, but I thought it might have simply been a weird camera angle on Roshan Seth, making him somewhat unrecognizable.  That older couple got a good solid moment of camera-time and they were dressed exactly as the Dalal Seniors always dressed.  I think the little pillbox-style hat the man was wearing is even Parsi, and not Muslim, so who were those people if not the 'rents?

 

Agree that a member of the "fabulously wealthy" Sood family wouldn't have been hustled off so quickly to a CYA execution--AND that a drowned homeless Indian beggar-woman wouldn't have caused such a ruffle in the first place--but I'll overlook it since Cynthia's storyline had such a tidy conclusion.  (WOW, it would have been the steal of the century for her to land that "house & contents" for 35,000 rupees instead of 400,000.)  Meanwhile, I am a huge fan of the Soods owning The Club!  Extract that revenge one small humiliating dram at a time, please.

 

Obviously the minority voice here, but I would have happily followed along to see the Maharajah's karma bite him--no doubt through the agency of one bitter Silene (with an assist by Madeleine?)--and all the Indian Summers stories through the years of mounting civil unrest until Mr. Ghandi finally starved himself to his nation's independence.

 

Namaste, everybody.

.

Edited November 23, 2016 by candall

[Constantinople]

3 hours ago, candall said:

Chekov's poison pill went nowhere.

The plan was for Aafrin to pour it into someone's tea in the Season 5 finale.

Alas, fate intervened.

[candall]

31 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

The plan was for Aafrin to pour it into someone's tea in the Season 5 finale.

Alas, fate intervened.

That's not true, right?  Facetious font?  Because if you have insider information, I'm going to come bang on your door until you let me in and tell me.

[Matty]

I thought the final episode was excellent. I'm so sorry that it was the finale for the series rather than just the season. Season 2 got better and better. Aafrin was really coming in to his own. He was commanding in his speech to the new Viceroy's right hand man explaining what was coming between the British and Indians. Sooni and her three suitors were very sweet. Ian McLeod turned out to be one of the best characters in the show and was truly in love with Sooni. She, unfortunately for Ian, was in love with Mr. Kahn. The parents' choice of an arranged marriage with the Parsi lawyer wasn't the right one for Sooni but he too seemed like a decent man. You go, Sooni. Three fine, young men in love with you! Sooni became a favorite character. The last scene at the wedding when it started to snow was beautiful.

This season Ralph Whelan went from being King of the Hill and pretty much running Simla to being a broken man who finally was free of all the trappings, climbing and striving. I think in the future he would have become even more Indian, and less British, in his political leanings and sympathies. He had no desire to ever leave India. When Madeline suggested they go to Chicago and start over he said, almost wistfully, "I can't leave. This is my home."

I really wish the series hadn't been cancelled. I want to know what happens to these characters in the future and now we won't find out. Seasons 3-5 were supposed to span the years to 1947 and India's independence. I think Adam would play a major part in the last season fighting for India's independence as he would be a young man in his early twenties by that time. It would be ironic for Ralph's son to have such a role after Ralph had been at the highest level of the British Raj.

I think there was more to the secrets that Cynthia was keeping regarding Ralph's parentage. She told him that his mother had an affair with her husband and that he was the child of that illicit affair but there seems to be more. Was she Ralph's mother? She cared about him so much. It seemed maternal. When she was smashing all of the antiques she said she wanted to wipe out the Whelans presence from the house for good.

All and all, I thought the characters were complex and interesting to watch. I still have questions. What was the trajectory of the storylines going to be for Cynthia and Ralph, Aafrin and Alice, Sooni and Mr. Khan, Ian McLeod? The acting, costumes, set designs were well done. I wish they'd change their minds and bring it back and finish what they started. I know that won't happen but I wanted to put it out there. Wishful thinking! As you can tell I really enjoyed this series.             

Edited November 24, 2016 by Matty

[Constantinople]

3 hours ago, candall said:

That's not true, right?  Facetious font?  Because if you have insider information, I'm going to come bang on your door until you let me in and tell me.

I was just joking.  My post was a reference to 

Spoiler

Breaking Bad

(name of show).

[Constantinople]

15 hours ago, Matty said:

I think there was more to the secrets that Cynthia was keeping regarding Ralph's parentage. She told him that his mother had an affair with her husband and that he was the child of that illicit affair but there seems to be more. Was she Ralph's mother? She cared about him so much. It seemed maternal. When she was smashing all of the antiques she said she wanted to wipe out the Whelans presence from the house for good.

If Cynthia is Ralph's mother and her husband Reggie is Ralph's father, why was he raised by the Whelans as one of their own rather than being raised by Cynthia and Reggie as Ralph Coffin?

[LiveenLetLive]

On 11/24/2016 at 11:35 AM, Constantinople said:

If Cynthia is Ralph's mother and her husband Reggie is Ralph's father, why was he raised by the Whelans as one of their own rather than being raised by Cynthia and Reggie as Ralph Coffin?

well that was the question that will never be answered, also they went out of their way to cast an actress as Ralph's sister that looked nothing like him, so, yes, more to the story...

[Matty]

Exactly. So much more to the story and these character's story arc that we'll never know. Was Cynthia an illegitimate daughter of Ralph's great grandfather? Is that why she was so pissed off at the guy in the photograph, the Whelan ancestor, and spit on it before shattering it on the ground? Also, she was full of glee at smashing all of the Whelan's antique porcelain and crystal. She hated them for a reason and yet she seemed to love Ralph. Another question that's raised is how Cynthia and her husband came to own the Simla Club. How did they have the type of money and resources needed to acquire it? Did Cynthia, as an illegitimate heir to the Whelan's fortune, receive a payoff kept in trust if her mother kept the secret? I'm now heading into pure speculation territory but I'm sure there's more to it. She had such a tight bond with Ralph. Even swapping the house with the Soods for the Simla Club pointed to the fact that she wanted to keep that house for Ralph to continue live there. Oh well, we'll never know will we?

[lidarose9]

On 12/5/2016 at 1:06 PM, Matty said:

Exactly. So much more to the story and these character's story arc that we'll never know. Was Cynthia an illegitimate daughter of Ralph's great grandfather? Is that why she was so pissed off at the guy in the photograph, the Whelan ancestor, and spit on it before shattering it on the ground? Also, she was full of glee at smashing all of the Whelan's antique porcelain and crystal. She hated them for a reason and yet she seemed to love Ralph. Another question that's raised is how Cynthia and her husband came to own the Simla Club. How did they have the type of money and resources needed to acquire it? Did Cynthia, as an illegitimate heir to the Whelan's fortune, receive a payoff kept in trust if her mother kept the secret? I'm now heading into pure speculation territory but I'm sure there's more to it. She had such a tight bond with Ralph. Even swapping the house with the Soods for the Simla Club pointed to the fact that she wanted to keep that house for Ralph to continue live there. Oh well, we'll never know will we?

Belatedly binged, sorry to comment so late. I agree it doesn't hold a candle to Jewel In The Crown, but I also was not able to stop watching. In spite of its problems, a really good, compelling story. I also agree with those who point to the inadequate acting of both Afrin Nasal Spray and Alice. Really, neither of them had much breadth. Alice in particular was like walking stuffed animal. I had no idea why she did what she did and I had trouble caring. It was all the more evident because of the crowd of really top notch actors all around them. I really enjoyed seeing Art Malik again, with the shoe on the other foot, character-wise. If the story had gone on, I predict we would have seen Sooni's happy marriage to her Muslim Mustache man tragically cut short by his death in some war-related action or maybe independence or partition unrest. She then would have gone back to her one true love, the Scotsman. I also predict after some back-and-forth, Ralph would have torn up his resignation and stayed on to help ease the transition. His new boss would have been that really tall guy who obvs has a past with Madeleine.

Meanwhile, I predict Cynthia would ultimately have confessed that she had been lying about her lies, that she was in fact Ralph's mother and Whelen was his father. Cynthia and Pater Whelen were the ones who had a big long hot passionate years-long affair. Cynthia's hubby Reggie was indeed shooting blanks as a result of VD, so when Cyn fell preg, they knew it was not his. Whelen had not been able to have children with his own wife and wanted a son and heir, and so -- ta da. They made some arrangement leaving Cynthia in possession of the club if she gave up all claim to Ralph and promised to never reveal the truth. Ralph and Cynthia even look alike. In the eyes. There really is no possible other explanation for her attachment to him.

I have no speculation about what would have happened to Alice and Afrin in the future because I just don't care.

I believe Bappi was saying a prayer at Sooni's wedding, praying for Mama's heart to open enough to accept her daughter's marriage. I was thinking he was just like Tevye in Fiddler on the Roof.

They were building up to something with Whelen's sidekick Bupinder. He had mental turmoil about murdering what's her name, plus he was getting seriously fed up with the British status quo. Wasn't that his wife whose finger was broken by Snidley Whiplash? -- oops I mean Alice's nasty husband Charlie. His death did turn that whole 2nd season plotline into a big waste of time. Whatever: I love that actor (from Da Vinci's Demons, as someone else mentioned) and since I have no great love for Alice, it was almost entertaining to watch him ham it up. Anybody that nasty has got to die, and I loved the way Alice neatly did and yet did not make it happen.

Yes, young Matthew and Adam would have been the next gen protagonists. I would have been interested to see where they would go. The actor cast as Matthew really did look a lot like his father Dougie. Oh, I was also wondering about the return of Lena? - the beautiful woman whose name I can't remember, the one who went to prison to save Adam.

Also I very much enjoyed very much reading your comments here. I'm not sure I would have finished otherwise.

Edited January 7, 2017 by lidarose9

[lidarose9]

http://asianculturevulture.com/portfolios/indian-summers-creator-paul-rutmanstill-looking-to-revive-epic-drama/

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 11/22/2016 at 2:50 PM, taanja said:

Haha! Thanks for the laugh! I don't care about Ralph's wife, Madeline (she seems to be able to take care of herself thank you very much) but yes. Aafrin's youngest sister---whatshername -- will now be the focus of all her mother's aspirations.

Shamshad.

On 1/6/2017 at 11:55 PM, lidarose9 said:

Cynthia and Pater Whelen were the ones who had a big long hot passionate years-long affair.

Oh, I was also wondering about the return of Lena? - the beautiful woman whose name I can't remember, the one who went to prison to save Adam.

Even if they did, the picture of Mrs. Whelan and Mr. Coffin together indicates they had one, too. Maybe one was revenge for the other. Or Cynthia didn't lie.

Leena Prasad.

[lidarose9]

1 hour ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Even if they did, the picture of Mrs. Whelan and Mr. Coffin together indicates they had one, too. Maybe one was revenge for the other. Or Cynthia didn't lie.

Leena Prasad.

Thank you for her name. She would finish her 10 years in prison during the war. I imagine she would be released and rush to find Adam and Matthew. -- I was assuming the people in the picture were not who Cynthia said they were.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 1/15/2017 at 5:22 PM, lidarose9 said:

Thank you for her name. She would finish her 10 years in prison during the war. I imagine she would be released and rush to find Adam and Matthew. -- I was assuming the people in the picture were not who Cynthia said they were.

Ralph recognized them as being his mother and Mr. Coffin.

[Gloriosa]

OK, I know I'm years late to this conversation, but if anyone can answer this, I'd really like to know ... what the hell was Sarah doing rooting around in someone else's garden?  I take it that was her old house and the Dalals have it now, but she felt entitled?  What a strange one she is.

Edited February 21, 2020 by Gloriosa
I'm referring to Episode 1 of Season 2.