S04.E04: Pies and Tarts

[Athena]

I did not know it was possible to make filo outside a commercial kitchen.  After seeing what is involved, my conclusion is I have the same chance of making a successful filo as I do of winning the lottery.

 

Many commercial kitchens and restaurants do not make filo or puff pastry in house anymore because of the work involved. They order it from big suppliers or outsource it to other producers and bakers. I've seen travel food shows where a bakery/factory in the Middle East still make it and it is very time and labour intensive.

 

Kimberley's smile gives me life.

[Qoass]

 

I so love this girl!  She delights me!  I hope nothing ever ever makes her sad because it will break my heart if I see a sad face on her.

 

(Edited because sometimes that "spoiler" tag makes things sound worse than they are.)

 

The departure of a fellow contestant gives her a sad face in the next episode-- beware!

Edited October 5, 2015 by Qoass

[Rinaldo]

Remember, for the Brits a cookie is called a 'biscuit'.  

Except when a biscuit is a cracker. Apparently they are trained from birth to know which is meant by any given use of the word "biscuit."

 

There's an account of how a Brooklyn grandmother would make strudel dough (which is in the same general family as filo, though I expect to be assured that there are essential differences :) ) in Mimi Sheraton's From My Mother's Kitchen, an entertaining and informative memoir of (non-kosher) Jewish home cooking and baking in the 1940s. It includes clearing the formal dining table so it can be used from all sides, covering it with a special cloth, removing all rings, manicuring so that nothing rough on the hands will catch the dough, guarding against drafts, and not answering the phone till it's all done (to minimize drying out).

 

I just discovered an article in which Ms. Sheraton is much more encouraging about making thin pastry sheets at home.

[Zahdii]

Except when a biscuit is a cracker. Apparently they are trained from birth to know which is meant by any given use of the word "biscuit."

 

I had no idea that in Great Britain both cookies and crackers were called biscuits!

 

Since cookies and crackers are so different, I'm surprised that the two are still called by the same name.  I'd have thought that by now someone would have started calling one of them by a nickname that would eventually have become the accepted name of said 'biscuit'.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Zahdii

[DeLurker]

(Edited because sometimes that "spoiler" tag makes things sound worse than they are.)

 

The departure of a fellow contestant gives her a sad face in the next episode-- beware!

Thanks for the advanced warning - I mentally prepared myself for her sad face, but it still crushed me.

 

I had no idea the in Great Britain both cookies and crackers were called biscuits!

 

Since cookies and crackers are so different, I'm surprised that the two are still called by the same name.  I'd have thought that by now someone would have started calling one of them by a nickname that would eventually have become the accepted name of said 'biscuit'.

I need to go back and find it, but when they were doing the judging, Paul complimented someone on getting the cookie and the biscuit right making me think there was some distinction between the two.

[Rinaldo]

I think (subject to correction) that in our modern well-connected era the UK has adopted the word "cookie" for the big gross uncouth kind we like in the US -- chocolate chip, oatmeal-with-raisins, etc. -- as opposed to the proper dainty biscuit that truly cultured people nibble (just one, please) with tea.

[Rickster]

Except when a biscuit is a cracker. Apparently they are trained from birth to know which is meant by any given use of the word "biscuit."

 

There's an account of how a Brooklyn grandmother would make strudel dough (which is in the same general family as filo, though I expect to be assured that there are essential differences :) ) in Mimi Sheraton's From My Mother's Kitchen, an entertaining and informative memoir of (non-kosher) Jewish home cooking and baking in the 1940s. It includes clearing the formal dining table so it can be used from all sides, covering it with a special cloth, removing all rings, manicuring so that nothing rough on the hands will catch the dough, guarding against drafts, and not answering the phone till it's all done (to minimize drying out).

 

I just discovered an article in which Ms. Sheraton is much more encouraging about making thin pastry sheets at home.

I've made strudel dough via the Jewish grandmother technique a few times, and believe it or not, it's easier than anyone would think. The big downside is getting flour all over the floor and it seeps through the cloth as well.

[ceebee]

I think (subject to correction) that in our modern well-connected era the UK has adopted the word "cookie" for the big gross uncouth kind we like in the US -- chocolate chip, oatmeal-with-raisins, etc. -- as opposed to the proper dainty biscuit that truly cultured people nibble (just one, please) with tea.

Ha, ha! That about sums it up.

I posted about this in the Baking on Both Sides of the Atlantic thread, but just to recap, biscuit is an umbrella term for cookies through to crackers (just like 'cake' covers lots of different things!)

Cookie is as described by Rinaldo

Cracker is usually unsweetened. Often sold as 'biscuits for cheese'. Crispbreads are a sub-section of crackers.

Everything else is probably thinner and snappier than a cookie and just called a biscuit (or a Hob Nob, ginger nut, Garibaldi, digestive, shortbread, oatcake or whatever type it is).

[Quilt Fairy]

Ha, ha! That about sums it up.

I posted about this in the Baking on Both Sides of the Atlantic thread, but just to recap, biscuit is an umbrella term for cookies through to crackers (just like 'cake' covers lots of different things!)

Cookie is as described by Rinaldo

Cracker is usually unsweetened. Often sold as 'biscuits for cheese'. Crispbreads are a sub-section of crackers.

Everything else is probably thinner and snappier than a cookie and just called a biscuit (or a Hob Nob, ginger nut, Garibaldi, digestive, shortbread, oatcake or whatever type it is).

Please answer this question I've had for years (of reading classic British mysteries): What then, is a digestive biscuit?

[ceebee]

Please answer this question I've had for years (of reading classic British mysteries): What then, is a digestive biscuit?

I believe it's similar to a Graham cracker (but I've never had one of those, so not sure how similar!).

Pic: http://nadiashealthykitchen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/27715_mcvities-biscuit.gif.jpg

No idea where it got the off-putting name, but it is a wholewheat, slightly sweet biscuit, with a nutty flavour (can be covered in chocolate). Good for dunking in tea, used as the crumbs in a biscuit base for cheesecake or even eaten with strong cheese like Stilton. 99.9% of people will not have made their own version but they're easy to make and are much lighter and crumblier than the bought version:

This recipe works (and tastes even better if made with wholemeal spelt flour in place of the wheat flour). You need a light touch or they will be hard rather than buttery and light:

https://www.epilepsy.org.uk/involved/involved/fundraise-events/teabreak/celebs/recipes/gary-rhodes/digestive-biscuits

Edited October 11, 2015 by ceebee

[Rinaldo]

Wikipedia agrees that the closest US equivalent is a graham cracker, though that is drier and more brittle. The "digestive" part apparently got attached early in the biscuit's history because some thought the baking soda in it would have antacid properties.

[editorgrrl]

Please answer this question I've had for years (of reading classic British mysteries): What then, is a digestive biscuit?

I'm meh about grahams, but love digestives. I'm in the US, and my local supermarket has them. Check the cookie aisle near the Walkers shortbread or (if you have one) the international foods section.

[stillshimpy]

Do you have a Cost Plus World Market where you are?  They specifically sell digestive biscuits there :)  

 

I've had them, as I've said elsewhere, my mom is from Scotland, so I grew with them.  

 

They are not particularly like graham crackers in flavor, by the way.   I don't know why that comparison gets made as often as it does, I think because of the texture, more than the flavor, to be honest...but digestive biscuits are crumblier. 

Edited October 11, 2015 by stillshimpy

[chessiegal]

Thanks to this thread, I looked for digestive biscuits at the grocery store today. They were in the International aisle. The brand is McVitie's. The only kind they had have chocolate on one side. I thought they were good. At 90 calories each, I'll be taking them to a potluck I'm going to later this month.

[Lamb18]

My guess (after puzzling about it for a couple of decades) is that they are whole wheat and therefore have more fiber.

[SophiaD]

My Armenian grandmother used to make her own filo dough.  She didn't mind it when I bought my own to make baklava, but she was HORRIFIED when I admitted I didn't butter every leaf. 

 

She also made a wonderful savory filo pastry with Muenster cheese and pastry.  It was literally *soaked* in butter.  I don't eat it any more, but it was definitely the food of my childhood.

[Neko]

On 10/6/2015 at 7:50 AM, Rinaldo said:

I think (subject to correction) that in our modern well-connected era the UK has adopted the word "cookie" for the big gross uncouth kind we like in the US -- chocolate chip, oatmeal-with-raisins, etc. -- as opposed to the proper dainty biscuit that truly cultured people nibble (just one, please) with tea.

I realize this was posted three years ago, but really?  Chocolate chip cookies warm out of the oven are "gross" and "uncouth"?  They're tiny little gifts from heaven! ;)

Edited February 19, 2018 by Sweet Summer Child

[Rinaldo]

I'd hoped that it was clear I was using "gross, uncouth" in a joking way, as the imagined British attitude toward such things. (And I should stress again that I'm both an Anglophile and a chocolate-chip cookie devotee. I bake a terrific version of them, through I prefer them NOT warm out of the oven.)

[Macbeth]

I liked Ali and was sad to see him go. But I was shocked that he doesn't like fruit pies. Really shocked. 

I empathise with him as an American I am not generally a fan of fruit pies or jelly donuts  (although I have begun to like apple pie.)

But he is on a British baking show. The Brits put fruits and jelly into everything.   It is unavoidable.