Season 6 Speculation WITH Spoilers (UK)

[Eolivet]

I see Mary as the "Queen" of Downton and Tom as the "Queen's escort". A man how doesn't have his own agenda and who will loyally support her in her life's goal, which has to be perserving Downton for George.

 

But Mary will never be the "Queen" of Downton. She'll be the...manager of Downton. It will never be her house -- she will never be its mistress as long as Robert is alive. And even after he dies, she'll be the Earl's mother. She'll put sweat equity into Downton, but never reap the benefits. Unless one thinks Mary is going to become a hermit and never leave the estate, toiling tirelessly to see that it's preserved, one assumes she'll go to London.

 

I really don't see where you see her wanting to go to parties and enjoy a society life, when all her life after Matthew has been about becoming the mistress of Downton and the manager of the estate to save it for George

 

And we've seen her in London, with Gillingham, Blake and now Henry. At fashion shows, at dinner, just taking the train up. She loved dancing in the season 3 Christmas special when Matthew couldn't stand it. She can do that as a widow -- and seems to enjoy it (we never see her pining for Downton in those scenes, for example). I don't see her doing that as a woman married to a man of no standing or a man who actively hates (or used to) that type of lifestyle. Henry may be "adequate," but he has some money (he can obviously afford and enjoys London).

 

I suppose I feel a marriage to Tom cuts off the part of Mary's life that is uniquely Mary -- her likes, her interests beyond Downton. I don't see Mary as Carson: Downton 24/7 -- she's more varied, and has had more opportunities than that. A single Mary at Downton keeps that part of her life viable, to me. Mary married to Tom makes her All Downton, All the Time. And again, the reason Mary wanted Downton was to be Countess of Grantham. She wanted to be its mistress, with all the rights and privileges therein. She enjoys and finds fulfillment rolling up her sleeves and working, but to me, that shouldn't be her whole life. I think that's just depressing.

[Andorra]

Well,we seen her very differently then, because for me the whole show has been about Mary and Downton. And her life's goal has been Downton and will remain Downton.

 

"My destiny is to save Downton for George, by spending every penny and every waking minute holding it together." (Mary season 4 CS)

 

The fact is that with Robert ill and possibly dying she WILL be leader of the estate. That's what I mean with "the Queen of Downton". Remember that Robert said "I believe you could even lead a kingdom" in episode 1? And now Tom had this "long live the Queen" line. 

 

I'm sorry, but I don't see any sense in making the story about Mary wanting to have a life outside Downton. It never was that story it has always been her ambition to lead and inherit the estate.

 

In season 5 we saw Mary restless, but did it make her more "satisfied" or more likeable? In the contrary, she was awful and seemed out of focus. Now she's back concentrating on what really matters to her. For me that's not at all depressing. It is satisfying that she will have all she wanted to have in the end, even if it comes in a whole different package. Allen Leech says it will all be about "resolution and happiness" and I think that would describe the situation perfectly. 

 

And will her life all be about working if she marries Tom? They seem to get along very well, they share jokes, they both have children and want to give them a happy childhood. Isn't that a nice life? Marrying Tom doesn't mean she will never go to London again or see friends. She does in his company all the time right now, why should that change?

Edited October 24, 2015 by Andorra

[saki]

I agree with Andorra that Mary has always been all.about.downton. It's Tom who I think this doesn't work for - as tedious as this has been, the last however many seasons it's been have been all about how Tom doesn't see his future at Downton. I won't find it very satisfying if after all of that whining from him about this if he decides that, actually, he does want to live out his days in aristocratic privilege given his previously expressed political views. And what about his Irish family? Are we supposed to believe that he doesn't care about them at all or Sybbie having a connection to his family?

[Andorra]

Well he came back because he realized that "Downton is his home" and the Crawleys are "his family".That made it very clear to me that his days of wondering and "not fitting in" are over. We could see him very much being the man of the house in the last episode, taking over the role of Robert even before Robert fell ill (when he rescued Chamberlain from Violet). 

 

BTW Allen Leech has given an interview at the BFI and he was asked about Downton, too. 

https://youtu.be/7d84YPROd0c

 

Interesting for me his answer about his favourite moment of Downton (from 2:18). He says that he can't pick one single moment, but that some of them will actually be at the end of the show with Michelle Dockery.

 

Also his face at the very end of the interview when he tells the fans: "I hope you'll be happy how it ends". I really can't see him grinning like that, if Tom's storyline would end with him staying single and that's all. 

Edited October 24, 2015 by Andorra

[RedWolf]

Well,we seen her very differently then, because for me the whole show has been about Mary and Downton. And her life's goal has been Downton and will remain Downton.

 

The fact is that with Robert ill and possibly dying she WILL be leader of the estate. That's what I mean with "the Queen of Downton". Remember that Robert said "I believe you could even lead a kingdom" in episode 1? And now Tom had this "long live the Queen" line. 

 

I'm sorry, but I don't see any sense in making the story about Mary wanting to have a life outside Downton. It never was that story it has always been her ambition to lead and inherit the estate.

 

In season 5 we saw Mary restless, but did it make her more "satisfied" or more likeable? In the contrary, she was awful and seemed out of focus. Now she's back concentrating on what really matters to her. For me that's not at all depressing. It is satisfying that she will have all she wanted to have in the end, even if it comes in a whole different package. Allen Leech says it will all be about "resolution and happiness" and I think that would describe the situation perfectly. 

 

And will her life all be about working if she marries Tom? They seem to get along very well, they share jokes, they both have children and want to give them a happy childhood. Isn't that a nice life? Marrying Tom doesn't mean she will never go to London again or see friends. She does in his company all the time right now, why should that change?

I noticed the correlation between those lines as well, Andorra. I also think that Mary's ambition was and is to "Rule" Downton Abbey (IMO she will be in charge of it when her parents, or more specifically Robert dies, and George is still a child) if not then what was the whole point of trying to break the entail in series 1 if she didn't want to take charge of it.

[saki]

For me, if two (or three? Don't even remember) seasons of whining were resolved by 'Oh, yeah, I belong at Downton' it would not be satisfying. I don't really care about Tom but am genuinely surprised that a Tom fan would find that OK.

[RedWolf]

Does anybody have any theories on the pictures for episode 7? They are up now on the site that shall not be named. If you do not know what I am talking about you can PM me.

[RedWolf]

For me, if two (or three? Don't even remember) seasons of whining were resolved by 'Oh, yeah, I belong at Downton' it would not be satisfying. I don't really care about Tom but am genuinely surprised that a Tom fan would find that OK.

Sometimes we do not realize how much we will miss someplace or how much we belong somewhere until we move away. IMO it actually shows how mature he is to be able to say that he made the wrong decision. Although, I do not believe that Tom only came back because he missed Downton Abbey and The Grantham's.

[Andorra]

I think Tom came back because he realized he missed Mary. I became suspicious when he looked at Mary in the CS. When she sang? It was as if he noticed her for the first time.

 

I saw the pics of Episode 7. 

 

My thoughts:

- good for the Anti-Braries: The pretty editor is there, so there's hope

- a few pictures of Mary/Henry holding hands, kissing obviously very flirty

- two pictures of Henry at the phone looking shocked

- a picture of Tom in a racing car

- a picture of Mary and Tom smiling at each other

 

The pictures don't give anything away. Everyone is smiling and happy at the race, but we know something dreadful will happen. I'm glad that we know Tom will be okay, otherwise I would be very worried if I had seen him in the racing car!

 

The editor is interesting of course. Is she there to meet Tom? There's no picture of them alone, just them standing in the group so no clue if something is going to happen. 

 

What will happen? I'm really curious. Mary is all smiles at the pictures. She doesn't look as if she's going to end the day in a fit, but we know she will!

[Eolivet]

I think this issue comes down to whether you're a Mary person or a Tom person.

 

Mary/Tom works out great for Tom. He gets a happy ending, a life of security for him and Sybbie, he gets truly assimilated into the family, he gets a beautiful second chance with a (now nice) beautiful woman who treats him as an equal.

 

But he is not Mary's equal, and I do think that matters in terms of Mary. Mary/Tom is a very limiting existence for Mary. Saying "her life is Downton" reduces her to its caretaker. It reduces her to her job (because that's what Downton is: a job. She has no formal position there except mother to the heir).

 

Now she's back concentrating on what really matters to her. For me that's not at all depressing. It is satisfying that she will have all she wanted to have in the end, even if it comes in a whole different package.

 

And to me, I can't think of anything more depressing, because she won't' have all that she wanted at the end -- not even close. Saying she'll be satisfied with "keeping Downton for George" reduces Mary to a worker and a mother. It says that Mary should be happy with the scraps of Downton, ignoring the fact that the entire premise of the show is Mary cannot inherit. There's such a history with Mary and Downton -- it might as well be one of her suitors. But she always wanted to be Countess of Grantham. She wanted to take care of it as the lady of the house, not as the manager. I mean, "long live the queen" sounds like a nice compliment, and I'm sure there was no malice behind it, but it's a stinging reminder that Mary won't ever be queen of Downton. Ever.

 

It's hard to explain, I guess, but the fact that she won't ever have Downton as she wanted it makes it more important to me than ever that she have a life outside of it. She needs to have something that is just hers -- not her father's, not George's -- but hers. And to me, that is her life in London and her enjoyment of society. It's the only thing about her that is uniquely Mary, and nobody else.

 

Because of that, I think the fact that Tom has no money is a big deal. Mary has matured, but she's not Sybil. I believe she enjoys the finer things in life -- she's said so on a number of occasions. And they would literally be living off Mary's money and the kindness of her parents. Everything that is Mary's alone would be swallowed up by Downton (her house, her son, her new husband).

 

I want Mary and Downton in an open marriage -- committed, but free to do other things. Free to leave and go have fun. Free to forge an identity that isn't tied to men and their titles. As a Mary fan, I will take any alternative to an all-Downton life. And if that means running off with Henry in his race car, and leaving George with the nanny, then I say: gentlemen, start your engines.

[MissLucas]

Mary can't run off from Downton - she's tied to it by her son. I really don't see the great tragedy here but that's maybe because I've always seen Downton-Mary as this show's OTP.

 

Buy yes, if they marry Tom can't take over the lord of the manor part because he simply isn't. The show will have to find a part for Tom where he can be his own man. Even right now I find his role as co-manager of Downton somewhat precarious because from the looks of it Mary is capable of doing that on her own if needs be. I suspect Tom's new-found love for cars might become important here.

[RedWolf]

But Mary can or will be able to inherit because of legislation that will pass this year (1925) in Downton Abbey. IMO They have shown in this last episode that Tom can take over and is comfortable enough to take over.

 

I don't think it's a new found love for cars ( actually Julian Fellowes has been pretty consistent about Tom's love for cars we just haven't really seen it until this series). When Tom was first introduced he told Lord Grantham that he had previously worked for a Lady who would not let him go above 20mph (or was it 2mph) and that it was boring. So we know he likes speed and knows how to take care of cars, he was going to move in with his brother and fix cars after Sybil died, he fixed Buntings car and took a look at Lady Anstruther's car in series 5, and he went to Boston to sell cars.

[Andorra]

I'm sorry, eolivet, but IMO your vision of Mary just isn't the Mary we've seen! Mary and Downton is THE big love story of the show! And certainly not Mary breaking free of Downton. No matter with whom she ends up with. 

[MissLucas]

I know that Tom always loved his cars but the show gave him little to do with cars during his previous days as estate manager. And although I'm firmly on team Mary/Tom I don't want him to run the estate with Mary. So I do hope this whole arc about racing cars will turn out to be more significant for Tom than Mary.

Edited October 24, 2015 by MissLucas

[Andorra]

I know that Tom always loved his cars but the show gave him little to do with cars during his previous days as estate manager. And also I'm firmly on team Mary/Tom I don't want him to run the estate with Mary. So I do hope this whole arc about racing cars will turn out to be more significant for Tom than Mary.

 

I hope he won't be racing though, but I do hope he might find a business that he can manage from Downton and that will give him the opportunity to be financially independent. It would be great if he was his own man and not dependent on Mary. Even though I do hope for them ending up together, I would hope for them to be on a more equal footing than they are now. 

[MissLucas]

I don't think he'll be a racer. It was (still is actually) a job that requires you to have some money/financial backing in the first place. But he might go into engineering (and turn Downton Abbey into a 20's version of Easton Neston where Lord Hesketh had the HQ of his F1 team in the 70's, he!)

Edited October 24, 2015 by MissLucas

[Brn2bwild]

Prediction: Tom and Henry race and get into a car accident.  After she's forced to wait hours for news, Mary's feelings will finally be revealed... for Tom.

[ElizaD]

- two pictures of Henry at the phone looking shocked

 

I saw a photo of him with a friend, maybe that man is the one who is injured during the race and Henry later hears that he's died. That way Mary could be shocked by seeing the worst that might happen to Henry one day but the family isn't personally affected.

[Eolivet]

Some spoilers are saying there's a funeral in season 6, along with "Mary gets a surprise" and "Mary goes to a dark place." I was going to say maybe Henry really does die, but that photo would seem to indicate it's not Henry -- but it could be the impetus to push him away. Maybe after that, Mary realizes she's happier alone. That would fit Dockery's "surprise" at where Mary ends up.

 

(It begs the question of whose funeral, though. I still say it has to be someone we know, because they've started using the "heartbreaking" and "it's happy and sad" descriptor for the final season, and the last time they did that...well...)

[TheGreenKnight]

Is is possible the funeral could be for Tom? Maybe Mary's dark place comes when he leaves his daughter to Edith rather than her (somehow I couldn't see him leaving her to Robert/Cora...).

[Lokiberry]

I don't suppose it could be Carson's funeral, could it? I suppose that's just wishful thinking; but if he keeled over while his lips were firmly planted on some member of The Family's ass, that would clear the way for Barrows to remain and take his place, plus free Mrs. Hughes from her unpaid, and unappreciated, servitude. Everybody wins.

 

I'm torn on what they mean to do with Tom and Mary. On one hand, they seem to just be establishing him as a fully integrated member of the family, who calls Mary his sister and plays matchmaker. On the other, I believe all of his scenes were with Mary, or the family including Mary (except for a brief word with Edith), and he WAS waiting up for her to get back from her walk with Talbot, AND he was looking a bit cross reading that newspaper. If only they'd developed Talbot into something more than a vapidly handsome guy who likes racing cars. I mean, look at Bertie Pelham, he's already proven himself a worthy suitor for Edith, and I don't think he's had much more screen time. It could go either way; they're really playing their cards close to the vest.

[sunflower]

 

I'm torn on what they mean to do with Tom and Mary.

 

I'm curious, as I'm spoiling myself (have to know!), but not actually watching the episodes.  Does it seem that Tom is overcompensating by playing matchmaker with Henry and Mary?  Oh, he's so awesome, isn't he, sister?!

[Lokiberry]

I'm curious, as I'm spoiling myself (have to know!), but not actually watching the episodes.  Does it seem that Tom is overcompensating by playing matchmaker with Henry and Mary?  Oh, he's so awesome, isn't he, sister?!

It's really hard to tell. He's encouraging her to give Talbot a chance, but all of his scenes are with her. As for Mary, she has a scene with Tom, goes and flirts with Talbot, then comes back and has more scenes with Tom. He's her shadow, he's everywhere she is; and all the while has what might be described as a knowing smile plastered on his face. And, to make matters more confusing, Talbot is so insubstantial. There's no there there. He likes cars and is good looking and that's it. Gillingham and Blake were complex characters compared to him. I don't know what's the intent behind it all.

[hafo]

He is being a bit aggressive about it but he genuinely likes Henry. It actually feels awkward that he's so enthusiastic about it, especially when Mary is so hesitant. He's coming across as a little pushy, imo. Are we supposed to like Henry because Tom does?

 

I imagine the reason for bringing Tom into all of these scenes is to establish a partnership with Henry, and they will go into business together at the end of the series. As for Tom/Mary, I think the next episode will decide that. If Tom is involved in the car crash, I think we will see Tom/Mary. If not, it will be part of Henry and Mary's romantic arc. After the latest episode, while I'm not ruling out Brary, I would be surprised. Not shocked, but somewhat surprised. They really aren't giving anything away.

 

Also, I think Mary is serious when she says she'll be upset if Tom has kept Marigold a secret from her. I really hope Mary will take this information and act with grace instead of spitefulness. The U-turn Michelle Dockery mentioned could be Mary's relationship with Edith.

Edited October 26, 2015 by hafo

[Tetraneutron]

Does anyone think life won't end happily for anyone upstairs? Besides, what's the worst that could happen? Mary finds out about Marigold and is a cow to Edith? That's the status quo. What else could Mary do that's so devastating?

[Hecate7]

Does anyone think life won't end happily for anyone upstairs? Besides, what's the worst that could happen? Mary finds out about Marigold and is a cow to Edith? That's the status quo. What else could Mary do that's so devastating?

 

What does Mary always do? Spoil whatever Edith has got going on. In this case, she could tell Bertie Pelham that Edith is a fallen woman who had Marigold by a secret lover, and then of course smugly tell Edith that she brought it on herself.

[Tetraneutron]

I just don't see it. When she did it last time she had a reason, dumb as it was. She was getting revenge for Edith possibly ruining her life and that of her immediate family. Now she has everything she wants and hurting Edith would just be petty and would be seen by the audience as such. Mary is the favorite, the hero. Do you really think Fellowes would do that to her?

[sark1624]

From diferent sources we know that Bertie is going to know about Marigold and that becomes a mayor impediment in the relation with Edith, in the press pack says that a mayor betrayal damage the relation. If Edith tells the truth to Bertie  its not a betrayal its only honesty (another thing is how he reacts), but if Bertie somehow know the trhut through another source (Mary) he is going to fell betrayed because he will think that Edith is not completely honest with him.

 

I insist in my prediction that the "dark place" of Mary is going to be when she realizes that she was the only that didnt know about Marigold, in this episode she already said that is a real betrayal on Anna´s side on this subject, and also she is going to have a problem in the relation with Talbot. For that reason i think that when she realizes all that she is going to be angry and isolated, plus we know that Lord Hexham dies in Africa, maybe she is going to fell very jelaous that her sister, the biggest loosers on her eyes can become a marchioness outranking her. 

[MissLucas]

I'm starting to wonder if the much talked about death could be Carson - he's as much a symbol of times gone by as Violet. Plus it would solve two plots: Mrs Hughes would not have to check in with Downton's invisible librarian about the properties of hemlock and Thomas could stay as butler.

[Andorra]

I think Thomas will stay on because Molesley is going to be a teacher.

 

I actually think Robert will still be the one who dies (if someone dies). He didn't look as if he's well again and he still was in pain. Maybe it is just because he's recovering, but maybe he will get better and then take a turn for the worse in the end?

 

There were these remarks about Violet being at his funeral and then yesterday "hopefully I'll be dust by then."

[Ide]

I actually think Robert will still be the one who dies (if someone dies). He didn't look as if he's well again and he still was in pain. Maybe it is just because he's recovering, but maybe he will get better and then take a turn for the worse in the end?

 

 

 

I thought that, too. He war obviously still in pain. I wasn't sure if it's still post-operation pain or if it matters for the upcoming storyline.

 

[Hecate7]

I just don't see it. When she did it last time she had a reason, dumb as it was. She was getting revenge for Edith possibly ruining her life and that of her immediate family. Now she has everything she wants and hurting Edith would just be petty and would be seen by the audience as such. Mary is the favorite, the hero. Do you really think Fellowes would do that to her?

 

Yes, because he thinks it's funny. Also, I'm not sure Mary has "everything she wants," and from her face in that mirror when it became clear that Anna was hiding something, Mary bitterly resents being the one person in the family who wasn't let in on the secret, and she'll want revenge on Edith for it. Edith has come a little too close to catching a break, for Mary's taste or Fellowes's. She's got a magazine and her father's respect and a suitor. Mary can't let her have all that. Her face whenever Edith has been happy has been a study in envy, disgust, and anger. She can't take away the magazine, the child, or the way her father looks at Edith with new eyes. But she can take away the suitor, and most likely will, out of habit if nothing else.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Hecate7

[Andorra]

The description for Episode 8 is out and the cast list.

 

 

Series 6 Episode 8
Bertie’s circumstances change suddenly, leaving Edith uncertain whether to risk telling him the truth or keep her past a secret at all costs. Mary wonders if she can ever make peace with her sister as hostilities escalate, Spratt shows some hidden talents and Molesley’s first day as a teacher does not go according to plan. Mrs Patmore’s bed and breakfast attracts unwanted attention, leaving her in need of the Crawleys’ help. The last episode of the final series, although the Crawleys will return one last time for a Christmas special. Last in the series.

Violet, Dowager Countess of Grantham: Maggie Smith
Robert, Earl of Grantham: Hugh Bonneville
Lady Edith Crawley: Laura Carmichael
Mr Carson: Jim Carter
Baxter: Raquel Cassidy
John Bates: Brendan Coyle
Lady Mary Crawley: Michelle Dockery
Molesley: Kevin Doyle
Andy: Michael Fox
Anna: Joanne Froggatt
Henry Talbot: Matthew Goode
Thomas: Robert James-Collier
Tom Branson: Allen Leech
Mrs Hughes: Phyllis Logan
Cora, Countess of Grantham: Elizabeth McGovern
Daisy: Sophie McShera
Mrs Patmore: Lesley Nicol
Isobel Crawley: Penelope Wilton
Sgt Willis: Howard Ward
Lady Rosamund: Samantha Bond
Lord Merton: Douglas Reith
Mr Dawes: Patrick Brennan
Bertie Pelham: Harry Hadden-Paton
Lucy: Hayley Jayne Standing
Amelia Cruikshank: Phoebe Sparrow
Laura Edmunds: Antonia Bernath
Audrey: Victoria Emslie
Spratt: Jeremy Swift
Lady Shackleton: Harriet Walter
Mr Mason: Paul Copley
Rev Travis: Michael Cochrane
Paparazzo: Jake Rowley
Photographer: John Voce
Schoolchild: Erin Surtees
Schoolchild: Lucas Culff

 

 

For me it looks as if the wedding in Episode 8 will be Bertie and Edith. The Marigold revelation will take center stage in the episode and it will all end with the big wedding.

 

We know there were two weddings filmed for this series and I can't imagine a summer and a winter wedding in the CS? I don't think Talbot/Mary are at a point of marriage in Episode 8. Especially not if they're going to break up in Episode 7.

 

I'm suddenly pessimistic. It looks as if the whole show will be just end as everyone predicted. Mary and Talbot will reconcile in Episode 8 and get married in the CS. And Tom will probably marry the editor in the hiatus to keep the pattern that we never see anything important happen in the life of my favourite character. We, didn't see the wedding with Sybil either. 

 

How boring this ending would be. Nor surprise at all.  And the "big U.turn" the "turn that Michelle Dockery "didn't expect" will be what? 

Edited October 27, 2015 by Andorra

[RedWolf]

Have hope, Andorra. IMO unless Mary has a change of heart concerning Talbot in episode 7 (she still doesn't seem that interested in him and it seems to me, at this point, that she is only trying because Tom is telling her to. She even told Tom she was only going to the race to get over her fear and she has never lied to Tom, even when he was the uppity chauffeur) he is not endgame. He doesn't even have is own theme music, in all the scenes where he is alone with Mary I have only heard Gillingham and Blake's music, or at least the music used during their scenes with Mary, and they didn't last long.

 

If I remember right the only time the Sybil/Tom music has played this series was when Tom came back in episode three. There was no music during Gwen reminiscing about Sybil or when Tom spoke to Mary on how he and Sybil were a marriage of equals. I think that means that he has fully let go of Sybil and is ready for a new relationship (hopefully with Mary) but that is just MO what it really means only TPTB know.

 

ETA: I agree that Bertie and Edith will be married by the end of Episode 8.

Edited October 27, 2015 by RedWolf

[MissLucas]

Wow, talk about neck-breaking pacing for those last two episodes. Just thinking about it makes me feel dizzy.

We know Edith and Bertie will get married, no big surprise there. The second wedding could be  Isobel and Lord Merton. Why else introduce the peace-making fiancée this late in the season? (I would have preferred to see Mr Mason and Mrs Patmore getting married with Daisy sulking in the church yard.)

Everything else must be set in motion without resolution until the CS - like a mise en place in Mrs Patmore's kitchen. And we won't see the first couple of courses, just desserts in the CS.

[Kirsty]

So Edith marries a lovely guy who thinks she's the bees knees, and he's just inherited a title and a castle to boot. Aw, I'm glad Edith gets a happy ending.

 

And the "big U.turn" the "turn that Michelle Dockery "didn't expect" will be what?

 

Well, there must be an accident or a near miss at the racetrack next week. If it doesn't involve Tom, then I guess the story is that it scares Mary off Henry Talbot. She lets her fear rule her, and she ends her relationship with him. Maybe she breaks it off over the phone (like a rotter) and that picture of Henry on the phone is during the break-up conversation.

 

She's scared and unhappy in episode 8, while Edith gets her happy ending. And then after some inspiring words about courage in the Christmas Special from Violet/Tom/Carson, Mary asks Henry for a second chance. That's her U-turn.

 

I don't think anyone cares much about Henry Talbot one way or another, but Edith's man Bertie was introduced to the viewers in the same episode as Henry, right? They were introduced equally late in the show's run. And Edith/Bertie is clearly one of the show's planned happy endings, so Mary/Henry could well be another.

 

OR: the reason Tom keeps talking about his love of cars every bloody week is to set up the moment when he jumps at the chance to try out one of the racing cars at the track. Tom has an accident or a near miss, and Mary gets the shock of her life. And ultimately her U-turn relates to her relationship with "her brother", and to marrying down.

 

 

I can't deduce anything from the number of weddings, because Mrs. Patmore might decide that what she and her boarding-house really need is a man about the place. And she and Mason may tie the knot, leaving the cottage to Andy and Daisy who also marry, along with Baxter and Molesley, and Isobel and Lord Merton. That's half a dozen weddings in all, not counting Tom/rando! :D

 

Edited to Add: Ooh, what if Tom's the one who has a near miss at the racetrack, but it's still not about him?! Like, it gives Mary a fright, so she breaks it off with Henry, and then she recovers her nerve and proposes to Henry in the Christmas Special or something. What a horrible thought. ;)

Edited October 27, 2015 by Kirsty

[Andorra]

Lady Shackleton is in Episode 8, too. So maybe Mary will marry Henry in Episode 8 already??

 

I can't believe it! Or maybe she just appears at the very end and wants to put in a good word for her unhappy nephew? And then it's open ended over the hiatus? She appears at the very end of the episode, because she is at the bottom of the list. I hope that doesn't mean the episodes ends with a wedding of Mary and Talbot.

 

Urgh. I don't want Mary to marry Henry. They're so LAME!! 

[Eolivet]

This sounds like total typical Fellowes. Not since episode 3 of season 1 has something been remotely surprising (or heavily hinted at to remove all surprise whatsoever, like Anna's rape, the season 3 Christmas special and even Sybil's death [there were hints]).

 

I will say I don't think Mary marries Henry in the Christmas Special. I'm back to them ending on an ambiguously positive note, though. I like another poster's speculation that Robert and Cora leave Downton for a smaller house, leaving Mary and George, with Thomas as butler, and Baxter as lady's maid. I think Dockery would be sort of shocked by that -- and so would I!

 

I think the U-turn is Fellowes' typical "tragic episode 8, happy CS." I think he's going full on season 2 Christmas Special -- only this time, for everyone.

[RedWolf]

Lady Shackleton is in Episode 8, too. So maybe Mary will marry Henry in Episode 8 already??

 

I can't believe it! Or maybe she just appears at the very end and wants to put in a good word for her unhappy nephew? And then it's open ended over the hiatus? She appears at the very end of the episode, because she is at the bottom of the list. I hope that doesn't mean the episodes ends with a wedding of Mary and Talbot.

 

Urgh. I don't want Mary to marry Henry. They're so LAME!! 

Or Maybe Lady Shackleton and Henry Talbot go to Edith and Bertie's wedding reception to wish them well and we get another "you were just what I needed" (to make me realize I am in love with Tom ;)  ) lines from Mary to Talbot. Which would make the whole parallel to Gillingham come full circle. (Let me dream)

 

Or Lady Shackleton goes to Granny Violet's for tea and tells her Henry got over Mary and he's involved now with that pretty Editor he met at the race.

 

Or it really is the end of the world and we get a Mary/Henry wedding (which IMO makes no sense character or story wise)

[rudystx01]

Why is everyone so sure that Edith and Bertie get married? Wedding programs are made well in advance and don't indicate that the ceremony took place. We have been down this road before, and Edith has been left at the altar before. Are we prepared for a cruel joke to be played?

Edited October 27, 2015 by rudystx01

[Avaleigh]

I'm fully confident that Edith will be married to Bertie. 100% confident. I wouldn't actually *do* it of course, but I'm so confident that this is going to happen that I'd bet my life savings on it. 

[Andorra]

Never ever will Edith not marry Bertie Pelham. She will get a princess ending for enduring so much. I have no doubt whatsoever.

 

The question is: Who will marry in episode 8?? Edith or Mary? 

 

I don't believe it's Isobel. I don't think she would get a big wedding? 

I'm going to be pissed and will laugh at the same time, if the "big U-turn" that Michelle Dockery "didn't expect" will be just half an episode of seperation for Mary and that bloody race driver who is so wrong on all levels for her!?

 

Sorry, but that's ridiculous.

 

I think we will see the truth of it though in the next episode. I'm sure once we've seen Tom and the editor together we will know if we can bury all Brary dreams or if there's still hope. If Mary and Tom are both flirting with different partners, even I will admit that Brary is a crackship. 

[Crs97]

I really wish the Mary/Edith scene will be both of them owning up to why they have such a crappy relationship and make some sort of peace with Mary suggesting that Edith tell Bertie about Marigold, not because it will risk her relationship, but because the ones they love deserve to know the truth just like Mary told Matthew about Pamuk.  What I fear (which means it will play out this way) is that the whole show is retconned so that Mary does all the apologizing because Edith is an innocent victim in everything bad that has ever happened to her.

[Andorra]

Look at Mary's reaction to Henry's love declaration. https://33.media.tumblr.com/4f7d04fbcb23132fbf9e385e541f2924/tumblr_nwudb0XOsL1s7y0ubo6_250.gif

 

LOL. Are we really expected to buy those two heading for the altar in just two episodes?

 

The gif is not mine, but it is indeed her true reaction to him telling her he is falling in love with her. To me it says: "Oh dear. Another one." LOL

[abbyzenn]

I thought I read that this season covered 1925 and 1926 and the Christmas special covers just Christmas Day 1927.  I think so far all the episodes have been 1925 so there could be a time jump from episode 7 to 8 which would allow relationships to develop offscreen (of course).  Then the CS would be a where they are now sorta episode with indications of where things will go but no big events like a wedding.

[hafo]

The question is: Who will marry in episode 8?? Edith or Mary?

 

[...]

 

I think we will see the truth of it though in the next episode. I'm sure once we've seen Tom and the editor together we will know if we can bury all Brary dreams or if there's still hope. If Mary and Tom are both flirting with different partners, even I will admit that Brary is a crackship. 

 

Oh, I'm so sure it will be Edith getting married in episode 8. Even if Henry and Mary decide to start a relationship, I would be surprised if we saw a wedding. Mary isn't in love with him (at least not yet).

 

I'm holding on to my beautiful Brary dreams for one more episode. I'm happy to enjoy the end of the series from the deck of this crackship :P

Edited October 27, 2015 by hafo

[Andorra]

 

I'm holding on to my beautiful Brary dreams for one more episode. I'm happy to enjoy the end of the series from the deck of this crackship :P

 

 

LOL, me too! 

 

Now there's still hope. Someone just told me, that Allen Leech said in an interview that his favourite scene will be in the upcoming episode and it is with Mary.

 

Well, that HAS to be a significant scene, don't you think? Before that he always said his favourite scene was Tom's propsal to Sybil and Sybil's death. 

 

So for me it has to be an important scene!

 

He also said that his Mom was terribly upset last Christmas, because she thought he would leave her favourite show! And he couldn't tell her, because his family just can't keep secrets.

I feel sorry for her, but I'm glad I wasn't the only one who cried into her red wine that evening!

 

 

Edit: I found the interview:

https://40.media.tumblr.com/bc18cbaec2deaa2bd2dab2c16d41992d/tumblr_nwvzyffZHU1rg6grqo3_1280.png

 

and https://40.media.tumblr.com/278e1c317684f8ca63805535994bc01e/tumblr_nwvzyffZHU1rg6grqo4_1280.png

Edited October 27, 2015 by Andorra

[hafo]

From the interview it seems Tom is more than a bystander in whatever drama happens with the cars next episode.

[abbyzenn]

Actually Andorra in the interview you linked Allen doesn't say it is his favorite scene of the series (the upcoming one) he says it is ONE of his favorites and then he also mentions the Sybil proposal. 

I don't think you can really read anything into what Allen says.  He, like the rest of them, is so coy and I think he likes to play with the audience.  For example, in that interview he says maybe Branson will start to dip his toes into the world of romance again - which doesn't make it seem like he marries Mary.

I thought it interesting that he said he'd have liked a different ending for Branson but that he didn't get to choose. 

 

Maybe I'm just reading that this way because I don't want to see Tom and Mary end up together.  I like both characters but I don't want to see them married, at least not to each other - although I think  they might have made a good couple in real life (too bad he introduced her to his friend)

[Andorra]

Oh, he said  earlier in another interview, too that one of his favourite scenes of Downton (not just the series) will be later in the series and that it is with Mary. I'm sure he is not talking about other person's scenes, but talking about a scene that he is in.

 

I also thought it interesting (and worrying) that he said he would have wished a different ending for Tom. That sounds as if the ending is unsatisfying which it certainly would be if he remains the only single among the younger characters. 

 

I also would find a last minute romance with the editor disappointing. If it won't be Mary, I will be very disappointed that Julian Fellows didn't give Tom a new love interest at least a season ago.