Season 6 Speculation WITH Spoilers (UK)

[vesperholly]

I am still worried that Edith won't get a happy ending.  I know the signs all point that way but this thread was full of post after post of people convinced that Tom and Mary was going to happen and that was clearly totally wrong.

 

We already know that they cast Bertie's mother and shot at the location that was Brancaster (the Marquess's estate), that is a pretty huge giveaway. Not to mention the page of the script with the wedding on it and "Bertram". I will remain ever hopeful, dammit!

[MissLucas]

The sad thing is the character of Mary is now only a cartoon, i bet that in the CS she is going to have a wonderful marriage with Talbot, and some stupid sub plot involving a  guest appearance. 

The guest appearance has already been confirmed - Rose will be back. And since Hugh Bonneville was doing his best this week to create more Lady Edith anxiety I think she'll get her happy ending.

[sark1624]

yeah but i think that the "forgotten" was a trick to conceal Mary´s wedding, i dont think that the producers can allow that so many clues get away to the press.

[saki]

We already know that they cast Bertie's mother and shot at the location that was Brancaster (the Marquess's estate), that is a pretty huge giveaway. Not to mention the page of the script with the wedding on it and "Bertram". I will remain ever hopeful, dammit!

We'll see.  There are still myriad ways for JF to screw Edith over.  She could be left at the altar AGAIN.  Mary could decide to stop the wedding because it's not about her.  Bertie could have a heart attack before he gets to the altar.  I really don't think Edith's happy ending is a cert.

[sark1624]

We'll see.  There are still myriad ways for JF to screw Edith over.  She could be left at the altar AGAIN.  Mary could decide to stop the wedding because it's not about her.  Bertie could have a heart attack before he gets to the altar.  I really don't think Edith's happy ending is a cert.

 

I also think that, it would be very strange that Edith gets her happy wedding, i think that the wedding is Merton with Isobel and the visit to Brancaster is that Edith with Bertie are only friends or something like that, or even worse that they go to congratulate the new wife of Bertie. And the "happy ending" for Edith it going to be a profesional single woman raising Marigold in London, thats it. 

[Avaleigh]

I am still worried that Edith won't get a happy ending. I know the signs all point that way but this thread was full of post after post of people convinced that Tom and Mary was going to happen and that was clearly totally wrong.

To be fair though, most (all?) of us who were hoping for Brary fully acknowledged that it was unlikely and closer to being wishful thinking.

With Edith getting her happy ending with Bertie, there's plenty of evidence that it's happening.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Avaleigh

[TheGreenKnight]

I agree, Edith could definitely have a happy ending single with her daughter and writing. But Mary could also have had a happy ending alone with her son, running the estate, and ultimately Fellowes forced a love interest for whatever reason.

[SusanSunflower]

I'll be happy enough if she has a glorious marriage to Talbot, a fetching new hairdo and is glowing, being  6 months pregnant if she'll get out of the way of Edith's happy ending. It is in Fellowes' self-interest to not utterly enrage Downton fans -- only those who absolutely loathe Edith will be fist-bumping over another failure to wed -- everyone else I think will find it needless cruelty heaped on the unloved middle Job-like child ... 

Edited November 13, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[Andorra]

Come on, Julian Fellows has proven again and again that he is NOT surprising. We always think he will surprise us and we desperately hope for it (Brary), but he never does. In fact he hasn't once except for killing off Sybil and Matthew and that was only surprising because we didn't know the actors didn't prolong their contracts.

 

Aside from that we always hope for twists and turns and suprising storylines and the reality is predictable and boring as hell. We knew last year in the CS that Mary was going to marry Talbot and she married Talbot. We knew Bertie was going to be the secret heir to Brancaster as soon as he mentioned his cousin in Africa and he was the Marchess of Brancaster. We knew Bertie was going to be the new man for Edith and he is the new man for Edith.

 

It's as simple as that. They filmed a wedding with 100 extras and with Shrimpy, Rose,Atticus etc. It was huge it was a Christmas wedding. They found the prop with the wedding order for Edith and "Herbert". Lady Pelham is on the cast list. They visit Brancaster. 

 

What more proof do we need? I would easily bet a fortune on Edith's wedding if I would find a place to do so. 

 

If one thing is a given it's Edith's wedding. There's not the slightest doubt about it. 

Edited November 13, 2015 by Andorra

[DeccaMitford]

Come on, Julian Fellows has proven again and again that he is NOT surprising.

 

Well, to be fair, I think at this point a lot of viewers would be genuinely surprised by Fellowes throwing any happiness Edith's way at all. I agree that too many things have come out showing it to be Edith's wedding for anything else to happen, but I think people are perfectly reasonable to be a little wary. It wouldn't be a surprise for Edith's happy ending to be suddenly ruined, because that's what has happened to Edith at every other point.

[Eolivet]

I agree, Edith could definitely have a happy ending single with her daughter and writing. But Mary could also have had a happy ending alone with her son, running the estate, and ultimately Fellowes forced a love interest for whatever reason.

 

Because she's only in her mid-30s and was married all of 18 months? Disagree on the method (there's plenty to disagree about), but I think it was essential for Mary to find happiness again. I truly don't understand the point of view that she should be satisfied with 18 months of happiness and her son and that's it (I argued that would make more sense than Mary/Tom, but I always wanted her to be happy again). How incredibly depressing for a widow only in her mid-30s.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Eolivet

[DianeDobbler]

 

What more proof do we need? I would easily bet a fortune on Edith's wedding if I would find a place to do so.

 

If one thing is a given it's Edith's wedding. There's not the slightest doubt about it.

I agree, and would put money down on Edith's wedding. Edith's marriage, OTOH, I am not so sure. Were any special effects/explosive devices/rented ambulances, or say, evidence that Downton researched hereditary conditions that cause men to die abruptly before forty, often during the church recessional after having just said I do?

Edited November 13, 2015 by DianeDobbler

[Andorra]

How incredibly depressing for Tom. He's even longer a widower now, poor man.  6 years of waiting for his dreamgirl. Then one year of marriage and widower for 5 years now. 

Edited November 13, 2015 by Andorra

[ZoloftBlob]

but I think it was essential for Mary to find happiness again.

 

I just didn't get the vibe that the story ended happily for Mary. She married a man that her family told her to marry... the exact fate she dreaded in season one.

[Andorra]

 

What a weird promotional picture for the Christmas Special? Tom in the middle with the girls and Henry sulking in the background? Will he be jealous?

 

This is what ITV released for the CS today:

 

 

 

TV and Carnival Films announce details of the final episode of Downton Abbey this Christmas ITV and Carnival Films, the producers of Downton Abbey, today announce casting details of the final ever episode of Downton Abbey to be shown this Christmas.

Joining the cast as a guest is Patricia Hodge (Miranda) who plays Bertie Pelham’s mother. Also returning are Lily James (Cinderella) and Matt Barber (Being Human) as Lady Rose and Atticus Aldridge, alongside Lady Rose’s father, Shrimpie played by Peter Egan (Unforgotten).

Mary endeavours to build bridges with her sister while Edith’s secret continues to pose a threat, despite having nothing left to lose. As Henry settles into the role of husband and stepfather, finding his place at Downton proves more difficult. Below stairs, Carson faces some personal challenges, which prove that even he is not invulnerable to change.

The last ever episode offers all the love and loss, happiness and heartbreak of Downton Abbey, and as the family and servants prepare to welcome 1926, they celebrate an unforgettable New Year’s Eve together at the great house.

Production spent a week at Alnwick Castle, Northumberland, which doubled as the location for Brancaster, home of Bertie Pelham, the new Marquess of Hexham. Filming took place in the spectacular interior rooms of the Castle as well as on the estate. Production also filmed dining scenes at the Iconic Ritz in central London.

The episode will feature returning stars Maggie Smith, Hugh Bonneville, Michelle Dockery, Elizabeth McGovern, Jim Carter, Penelope Wilton, Samantha Bond, Phyllis Logan, Laura Carmichael, Allen Leech, Matthew Goode, Brendan Coyle, Joanne Froggatt, Lesley Nicol, Sophie McShera, Robert James-Collier, Kevin Doyle, Raquel Cassidy, Michael Fox, Harry Hadden-Paton, Sue Johnston, Jeremy Swift, Douglas Reith, David Robb, Fifi Hart, Zac and Oliver Barker and Eva and Karina Samms. (…)

[MissLucas]

That picture is pure comedy gold! Little George looks all 'Why can't I be playing with Donk, Sybil and Marigold??? They are having fun over there!' And Henry scowling in the background is clearly upset that Mary wanted her work-husband at her side and insisted on him standing back (dude, that's what you bargained for).

[RedWolf]

I just didn't get the vibe that the story ended happily for Mary. She married a man that her family told her to marry... the exact fate she dreaded in season one.

I agree! I got the same feeling as well.

 

That picture is pure comedy gold! Little George looks all 'Why can't I be playing with Donk, Sybil and Marigold??? They are having fun over there!' And Henry scowling in the background is clearly upset that Mary wanted her work-husband at her side and insisted on him standing back (dude, that's what you bargained for).

I was ROFL at this comment. It really does look like that in the picture, you described it perfectly.

[DeccaMitford]

Oh my god that picture. It's amazing. It looks like Henry is photo-bombing somebody's already awkward vacation pic.

[RedWolf]

Oh my god that picture. It's amazing. It looks like Henry is photo-bombing somebody's already awkward vacation pic.

So true. I chocked on my drink when I read that. LOL 

[Eolivet]

I just didn't get the vibe that the story ended happily for Mary. She married a man that her family told her to marry... the exact fate she dreaded in season one.

 

I believe Mary herself once said "I would never marry any man who I was told to." So, while her family may have helped her along, I'm pretty sure she wanted to marry Henry and was angry and upset that her family was telling her what she didn't want to admit to herself.

 

I actually love that Christmas Special pic, and I'm super excited about the plots. As I've said, I believe Fellowes' #1 unresolved relationship is Mary and Edith, and seeing Mary make an effort with her sister, to me, would be indicative of her happiness and healing like nothing else. I like that Henry's not fitting in, because he shouldn't -- and that breeds conflict and drama (pretty sure that would've been Matthew, too, pre-premature-exit). I look forward to the continuing sad adventures of Edith (that will hopefully become happy, as I like her and Bertie).

 

However, I couldn't care less that Carson can't adapt to change.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Eolivet

[skyways]

I like that Henry's not fitting in, because he shouldn't

 

But that IS predictable and the ensuing drama may not be that compelling. EVERYBODY and their dog said he didn't fit.  In the picture he looks like someone forgot to tell him that the others have stepped forward for the picture and he was left standing there. Yes he doesn't fit alright.

[DianeDobbler]

Just for the moment supposing that Edith gets a happy ending, to me it IS a comment on the post-Matthew era that Edith's wedding would be the big, lavish, on-location Christmas Special wedding, as opposed to Mary's rush job, which was on par with Rose's rush job.

 

If Mary mends fences, my guess is instead of going to Edith, she goes to BERTIE, and makes Edith's case to Bertie, with lines such as "She's really quite marvelous, although I'll deny it if you tell anyone." Or "Difficult as it is for me to admit, she's a remarkable woman." and then a few dry disparagements of herself, whereupon, as she exits Brancaster, Bertie says "You're a lot nicer than people think you are."

[sark1624]

From the little info that we have i guess that the "major" problem of Henry is going to be how fit in the enviroment of Downton (rural, conservative, "slow") against his past life in London and racing car job. In another matter i think that is incredible the bad reception of that characther among the fans.  

 

Also i think if Bertie and Edith comeback its going to be with some help from Mary, i mean, i dont think that JF want that the audience remember Mary with her last behaviour toward her sister. And the secret about Marigold is going to be dangerous regarding Bertie´s mother, he said that she is very strict in some matters and that could undermine a posibly comeback in their relation. 

[Andorra]

Someone zoomed in on the picture:

 

Jealous creep, LOL. 

[DianeDobbler]

That photo is all kinds of ridiculous. Just a comment on the post-Matthew Mary mess Fellowes made of Downton, and how everybody else was sucked into it. I'm sure Matthew Goode must feel like quite the star in photos like that. :(

 

I kind of agree with the comments upthread that Daniel Stevens and Allen Leech are similar sorts. They definitely contrasted with Mary. Each almost has an American sort of openness, humor and down to earth quality. A great sense of the ridiculous, and also an earnestness. It's odd I think of them as quasi-American, but I really mean as to a type, as actors. You could throw them into an American series without needing to give the American characters lines about them being British. All of her other suitors were quintessentially a particular sort of British in casting terms - ironic, a bit supercilious, weedy, a bit fey from time to time (I was looking in the thesaurus, and that fit - they all had/have manners and a demeanor that's a bit airy and otherworldly, whereas with both Matthew and Tom, you sort of get them in one). In a non-vain way, Leech and Stevens both have the sort of presence that holds the screen, whereas the others are a bit self-effacing.

[skyways]

The problem with Tom is he looks pudgy and like a country squire. His clothes don't fit and he doesn't cut a dashing figure. That IS necessary for someone like Mary. Matthew's clothes didn't fit in Season 1 but come season 2, he looked leaner (to go with the military look), sleeked his hair back, smoked cigars and was generally suave. He didn't lose his earthiness despite the changes (That dancing scene with Mary was perfect with a capital P , such wonderful posture! Try to close your eyes and imagine Tom in this scene and tell me if it has the same or better visual impact). So no! Tom IS not those things. Superficial yes but very important. And that's why they don't fully fit. Yes they have a rapport but as confidants and companions - nothing more.

 

It's called the 'romantic look'. TomMary don't have it.

Edited November 13, 2015 by skyways

[DianeDobbler]

Tom's got a chin, though.

[shipperx]

I've seen the actor who plays Henry in a few roles, in nearly all of which I've liked him and, dare I say it, found him attractive.

[Ravenya003]

I love unintentionally ironic promotional pictures.

 

Mary endeavours to build bridges with her sister

 

 

Thank God. I actually hope that Mary steers clear of Bertie and works her ice-cold majesty on Mrs Pelham (who is sure to be an old dragon, especially if she's being played by Patricia Hodges, who specializes in that character type). Kind of like how Violet dealt with Miss Cruikshanks. 

[RedWolf]

It's called the 'romantic look'. TomMary don't have it.

Maybe it's just my Brary goggles but I think Tom and Mary look good together, maybe not in a they are so gorgeous together, but in a they make a nice respectable couple. Also at this point, after so many scenes together, I just can't imagine them without the other.

[skyways]

Respectable Mary is not. Sophisticated works better for the 'visual explosion' the show runners demand. It's your goggles.

Tom has got a chin for sure. Two in fact.

Edited November 14, 2015 by skyways

[Brn2bwild]

 

What a weird promotional picture for the Christmas Special? Tom in the middle with the girls and Henry sulking in the background? Will he be jealous?

 

Oh man, getting my hopes up all over again!

[Andorra]

Well, I find Tom a lot more attractive than Matthew Goode. Stocky or not. He has the most beautiful eyes and such a cute smile. Matthew Goode is not at all my type and I don't see his romantic appeal at all. Also I think he looks way too similar to Mary's other suitors. Tom is more like Matthew. They look very good next to each other IMO. He's a bit too short for Mary (as was Blake) since we're used to see at least 3 inches height difference between woman and man, but I think in this aspect Tom's broader built is an advantage. I thought Blake looked too fragile and "small" next to Mary, but Tom looks solid as a rock and the lack of height difference doesn't matter that much. 

[DianeDobbler]

Agreed. I think Tom is better looking than Henry. Henry just looks so generic to me. I didn't mind Fat Matthew either. Although I'm indifferent to absolutely all of the actors who've pursued Mary (save Stevens as Matthew), I agree with others who've mentioned that Mary is definitely not a one size fits all character where you can bring in a plausible guy and it will work (Laura Carmichael is that - she has that gentle quality that sort of brings the guy out). She really does need the humor, the sweetness, the classic masculinity.

 

That said, when I look at the picture again, and forget about Henry photo-bombing, the posing is absolutely bizarre, with little George between Tom and Mary. Surely little George could have been positioned so it didn't look like the family of Tom/Mary/George posing with Tom's in-laws, while the poltergeist of Mary's second husband looms spookily in the background as if he's just apparated from the pond. 

Edited November 14, 2015 by DianeDobbler

[Andorra]

I bet the picture is from a scene and it is a scene where Henry feels as an outsider. Maybe the other two children, Rose, Atticus, Bertie and Robert are standing opposite Mary and they're talking. And Henry feels as if he doesn't belong.

 

That's the impression I get from the picture. 

[RedWolf]

That said, when I look at the picture again, and forget about Henry photo-bombing, the posing is absolutely bizarre, with little George between Tom and Mary. Surely little George could have been positioned so it didn't look like the family of Tom/Mary/George posing with Tom's in-laws, while the poltergeist of Mary's second husband looms spookily in the background as if he's just apparated from the pond. 

Thank you for this, I really needed a good laugh at the moment. That photo is really weird even if they are just trying to show how Talbot feels isolated or unable to fit in. They could have positioned him on Mary's left, even with the parasol IMO.

[Hecate7]

Just for the moment supposing that Edith gets a happy ending, to me it IS a comment on the post-Matthew era that Edith's wedding would be the big, lavish, on-location Christmas Special wedding, as opposed to Mary's rush job, which was on par with Rose's rush job.

 

If Mary mends fences, my guess is instead of going to Edith, she goes to BERTIE, and makes Edith's case to Bertie, with lines such as "She's really quite marvelous, although I'll deny it if you tell anyone." Or "Difficult as it is for me to admit, she's a remarkable woman." and then a few dry disparagements of herself, whereupon, as she exits Brancaster, Bertie says "You're a lot nicer than people think you are."

 

 

IF Mary "mends fences," which I cannot envision for the life of me, it will probably be by going to Cora and Violet and saying, "well, I made a terrible mess of things for Edith, can you help her?" and leaving it at that. She certainly won't want to...TALK to Edith. Or to Bertie, for that matter, now that she's dropped a bomb on him. Someone else will have to clean up the mess Mary made when she kicked things all over the floor.

 

I could see her having a small present such as a dress or a toy delivered to Marigold, "from Auntie Mary," and this remote, hands-off gesture reducing Edith to tears of gratitude as little Marigold, oblivious to the whole thing, plays with the toy. But Mary is certainly not going to do anything messy or personal or risky or real.

I love unintentionally ironic promotional pictures.

 

 

Thank God. I actually hope that Mary steers clear of Bertie and works her ice-cold majesty on Mrs Pelham (who is sure to be an old dragon, especially if she's being played by Patricia Hodges, who specializes in that character type). Kind of like how Violet dealt with Miss Cruikshanks. 

 

I suspect this is a gross overstatement. Perhaps Edith designs a small stone bridge for part of the property and Mary literally "builds bridges with her sister" by signing off on the bridge's construction.

 

If anybody talks to Mrs. Pelham, it's going to be Violet.

[Ravenya003]

Okay, so just for my own amusement, I've complied a list of plot-points/character arcs that Fellowes has to deal with in the CS. Because he seems to have an AWFUL lot of stuff to get through. In rough order of most-to-least importance (based on how much emphasis they've been given in preceding episodes):

 

Mary/Edith reconciling

Edith/Bertie being reunited/married

The above two points probably being complicated by Patricia Hodges's Mrs Pelham

Thomas finding his calling in life

 

Isabel/Lord Merton marrying

The Anna/Bates baby safely delivered

Tom ... doing something? Perhaps sowing the seeds of a new romance with Edith's editor

 

Baxter getting closure on her old boyfriend

Andy finding satisfaction in his newfound literacy

Daisy finally moving into that damn farm house

 

Mrs Hughes laying down the law for Mr Carson (if Fellowes believes that hasn't happened already with the injured hand ploy)

Moseley making his feelings known to Baxter

Success for Mrs Patmore's B&B

 

Rose and Atticus returning for what will probably just be an extended cameo/baby announcement

Cameos from the various assorted Crawley children and puppies.

I feel that Robert, Cora and Violet's stories have more-or-less been wrapped up, though they're sure to get a few snappy lines here and there (particularly Violet).

 

Have I left anyone out?

[DeccaMitford]

I really, really hope that Mary doesn't have a hand in getting Edith and Bertie back together. It would leave such a bad taste in my mouth if the relationship lived or died based only on Mary's beneficence. Which means it'll probably work out that way. Mary may giveth and Mary may taketh away.

 

She probably has an obligation to try to make things right with Edith at this point, but with so little time left, I think a more emotionally honest, bittersweet ending would be if Mary just realized that her chance for a good relationship with her sister was lost.

[Nellie]

That picture is pure comedy gold! Little George looks all 'Why can't I be playing with Donk, Sybil and Marigold??? They are having fun over there!' And Henry scowling in the background is clearly upset that Mary wanted her work-husband at her side and insisted on him standing back (dude, that's what you bargained for).

Ha ha! Summed up perfectly. This picture got a good chuckle out of me. It absolutely looks like Henry is photo bombing in the background, with a grumpy look on his face. I think it's hilarious. Sorry.. Not sorry!

It is a bizarre choice of photo to release though.

[ElizaD]

I'd thoroughly dislike Mary doing something about Edith/Bertie, but for a different reason: Edith's never done a thing to apologize for writing the Pamuk letter in order to destroy Mary's marriage prospects and was thrilled to have the chance to call Mary a slut. She couldn't even bring herself to be happy for Mary when she married Matthew. Mary would be showing Edith a kindness she never got from her, but sadly that sort of extra effort and remorseful groveling is what I expect from her in the Christmas episode. I also expect that Mary will be shown deferring to the higher-ranked Edith after the marriage, to prove she's learned her lesson (the show will conveniently forget that it doesn't say very nice things about Edith that her happy ending is finally succeeding at snobbery and bullying Mary).

 

The mention of Henry the stepfather reminds me that that's another thing the show could have done better: if they'd shown a little bit of him with George, whatever challenges he faces in the final episode would have some buildup. Thomas has paid more attention to George than Henry (they'll be the next generation's Robert/Mary/Carson).

 

Carson's "personal challenges": could he be the one who dies, or is he just getting so old that he has to retire and Thomas becomes the butler? I think it was reported before the season started airing that there would be a death, but now I can no longer remember if that was an actual spoiler or just random speculation.

 

Aww, Shrimpie returns! He was a nice minor character.

[rudystx01]

Edith as Mary's bully. I think I have heard it all now.

[sark1624]

But after the letter and the break up with Strallan Edith never did anything wrong to Mary, also she told to Mary that she shared her feelings about not being loved by Matthew (and Mary said to her something like she doesnt need long words to her or something like that), she informed about Matthew missing in action knowing that she still loved him, also show support to Mary in the "letter/will". In fact there was never a directly apology from Edith to Mary but after the final episode with Strallan and all that, Edith never commited any action to destroy Mary´s happines, and the snarky comments in the majority where defensive ones. 

 

The big problem and the people outrage for Mary´s actions in this season is because is a mother of 35 and stil behaves like a teenager, Edith had shown more maturity in the lasts seasons (also had done mistakes). Even the relation betwen Mary and her suitors had been carried in a infantile way, and i think that the audience had been feed up with that. Even if Mary made some efforts to help Bertie and Edith to comeback i think that the audience would kept the image of the nasty side of Mary, JF didnt use the times well in that sense.

[Hecate7]

I really, really hope that Mary doesn't have a hand in getting Edith and Bertie back together. It would leave such a bad taste in my mouth if the relationship lived or died based only on Mary's beneficence. Which means it'll probably work out that way. Mary may giveth and Mary may taketh away.

 

She probably has an obligation to try to make things right with Edith at this point, but with so little time left, I think a more emotionally honest, bittersweet ending would be if Mary just realized that her chance for a good relationship with her sister was lost.

 

I don't think Mary would give it a thought. It's not as if a good relationship with Edith is something Mary ever wanted in the first place.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Hecate7

[chrisvee]

If I were Edith, I wouldn't want Bertie back based on an intervention by Mary. Bertie needs to come to terms with the situation, who Edith is, and why she was reluctant to trust him with that info on his own. Now if Mary wants to make amends by defusing the MiL situation...that would be acceptable.