Season 6 Speculation WITH Spoilers (UK)

[ichbin]

Anybody else thinking about a Mrs. Patmore and that cop pairing?  If anyone deserves a happy ending on this show it's her.

[Andorra]

Is Mary going to hand the child over to the Drewes ? ( previews)

Mary is working as the new agent now. I bet she just took the children with her on her round. Why should she "hand over" Marigold to the Drewes? She has no idea that Marigold is Edith's daughter and for Mary the Drewes gave Marigold to the family willingly and because they couldn't afford to raise her. She wouldn't see a problem taking Marigold with her to the Drewe's farm.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

Mary is working as the new agent now. I bet she just took the children with her on her round. Why should she "hand over" Marigold to the Drewes? She has no idea that Marigold is Edith's daughter and for Mary the Drewes gave Marigold to the family willingly and because they couldn't afford to raise her. She wouldn't see a problem taking Marigold with her to the Drewe's farm.

That's possible, personally I don't envision Mary taking the children around on rounds though . Tomato, To-mah-to ! Mary always snarks that Edith is overly warm w Marigold and it's not even her own child (which I think threatens Mary's superiority challenging Mary's more hands off parenting style) . What's not to say if she found Mrs drew despondent, Mary would not let her see/care for Marigold what's the harm while Edith is in London. Mary's capable of any freezing cold behavior toward Edith.

[photo fox]

This topic shall be for UK viewers going forward. If you have already seen episodes in the UK, and want to speculate about the rest of the season based on spoilers, your post goes here.

PM me with any questions.

[MissLucas]

I'm pretty sure Mary is not taking Marigold to the Drewes farm out of the goodness of her heart. She probably decided it was about time to remind Marigold where she was really coming from or something along those lines. I expect things to go ballistic fast and I'm really looking forward to the moment when Mary realizes who Marigold is and that she's about the last upstairs person in the whole house to realize that. (The staff could still be in the dark but I'm sure both Mrs Hughes and Anna do know as they were both presented with clues. And Thomas might have figured it out because he's Thomas.)

Edited September 22, 2015 by MissLucas

[CofCinci]

Who dies this season: Violet or Robert?

[photo fox]

RE: the photos linked in the episode 2 topic...

I'm going to hold off until we know how this goes down. Surely, Mary wouldn't take it as her place to unilaterally decide custody in a situation she has not been involved in at all. Even believing that Marigold is only a foster child, where would Mary have either the interest or the authority to make any choice here? What would be her motivation?

As much as I detest Mary, even I don't think she'd take Edith's "adopted" daughter away. And I don't think Robert and especially Cora would allow it to happen. They know she's their granddaughter, after all.

My guess is that something happens to bring Marigold and Mrs. Drewe together, and either Mrs. D freaks and doesn't want to let her go, or Edith freaks because they're in contact, and the whole thing comes out. Everyone just looks so upset.

[Andorra]

RE: the photos linked in the episode 2 topic...

As much as I detest Mary, even I don't think she'd take Edith's "adopted" daughter away. And I don't think Robert and especially Cora would allow it to happen. They know she's their granddaughter, after all.

My guess is that something happens to bring Marigold and Mrs. Drewe together, and either Mrs. D freaks and doesn't want to let her go, or Edith freaks because they're in contact, and the whole thing comes out. Everyone just looks so upset.

Exactly. Mary wouldn't just go and abduct Marigold? Why should she?

Also Edith seems only mildly upset when she tells Rosamund that Mary took Marigold to the Drewes, so she is not expecting her to abduct her. She is probably just concerned that Mary will find out about her and I bet that's what is going to happen.

We know they will have a major fight and that they had to make two dresses for Mary of the same kind. So they probabl are going to fight physically as well as verbally.

[ElizaD]

I saw a TV guide scan with a kidnapping headline, so I'd guess that what Mary and Edith view as an ordinary meeting between Marigold and her former adopted parents turns into Mrs. Drewe refusing to return Marigold, which should lead to Edith panicking and Mary finding out the truth.

[Andorra]

Yes. And Edith will probably blame Mary then for bringing Marigold to the Drewes in the first place, one word will give another and they'll totally lose it.

On another note: To me it looks as if the wedding will probably take place in episode 3 instead of 4, which means Tom will come home in 12 days!!!

Edit: The programme info is out, there is no cast list and the summary speaks of "an unexpected arrival" at the wedding. So YAY!!!

Tom is back!

Edited September 22, 2015 by Andorra

[Glade]

It looks to me like Mary carelessly allows Mrs. Drew to snatch Marigold, and then Edith, Robert and co. come to get her back later on.  Hopefully this will be the final sign telling Edith it's time to move to London with her daughter and never look back. 

[Andorra]

As if she would do that. She will blame Mary (who btw has no idea about the whole Drewe situation. She thinks the Drewes gave Marigold willingly to the Crawleys, because they couldn't afford to bring her up), Mary will find out that Marigold is Edith's child and that she is the only one in the family who didn't know and they will have a major fight.

But I would bet Edith will continue living at the Abbey, look sad and tell everyone that she is not supposed to find happiness. And Mary will continue to be horrible to her as she always was.

The oh-so-big "change" that every season of Downton announces never happens in the end.

[Andorra]

A new (and I think big) spoiler: Evelyn Napier will be back in season 6. It was posted on his agent's webpage:

http://www.curtisbrown.co.uk/news/downton-abbey-returns-to-itv1-for-its-final-series

[Avaleigh]

That's certainly interesting. I've always been fond of Evelyn but I'll be surprised if he's in the race for Mary. If this was something JF was toying with I wish Evelyn's role had been built up a bit more. No reason why he shouldn't be married by now. 

[Andorra]

Nice new spoiler: In Episode 4 Gwen will come for a visit!!

[ElizaD]

Radio Times:

 

4/9. Tom and Sybbie return to Downton, but the peace is disrupted by an unexpected visit from an old friend. Baxter is faced with a dilemma after an encounter with Sergeant Willis, while Thomas struggles to fill Carson's shoes. Anna goes to London with Mary to deal with a crisis, while her secrets seem likely to be exposed. Daisy is not happy with Cora, and Mary has an admirer.

 

Lady Shackleton and Gwen are listed in the cast. This is Henry Talbot's first episode, IIRC in an earlier thread it was said he'd appear in 6.

 

Oops:

 

A detailed wedding order of service, which reveals a surprising revelation from the ITV period drama, was discovered by a member of public after it was left lying around in an Oxfordshire church that is regularly used for filming.

As well as the vows and minister's greeting, the pamphlet reveals that Earl of Grantham Robert Crawley's daughter Lady Edith Crawley, played by Laura Carmichael, will tie the knot.

According to the prop, Lady Edith will marry a man called Herbert, who could refer to Bertie Pelham who is the agent of Brancaster Castle in Northumberland and the third cousin of Lord Hexam.

[AZChristian]

I predicted Edith would end up with Bertie as soon as I saw them together in the last episode of season 5.  My further prediction is that he becomes Matthew-like and ends up inheriting the title and the estate, or that he is actually the heir and is playing the poor relative to keep from having every woman in the area thrown at him.

[ZoloftBlob]

Of course. Because we've never ever had a third cousin totally not in line to inherit anything simply outlive multiple other heirs <cough>Matthew<cough<Matthew again><cough>Charles Blake<cough cough cough>

 

Perhaps Bertie finds out via a magical letter from the dead? :)

 

I am also convinced that the last few episodes are gonna be slam bam "I had no idea none of the cast would come back for seasons 7-9" thank you ma'am.

Edited September 30, 2015 by ZoloftBlob

[Andorra]

Radio Times:

 

 

 

 

Lady Shackleton and Gwen are listed in the cast. This is Henry Talbot's first episode, IIRC in an earlier thread it was said he'd appear in 6.

 

 

 In 6 episodes, not in episode 6. He will be in 4,5,6,7,8, and the CS.

 

Wouldn't it be lovely if Gwen was the surprise love interest for Tom? I can hardly think of anyone who the Sybil/Tom fanship would love more! It would offer wonderful conflict with the family, who probably wouldn't like Sybbie's stepmom to be a former housemaid and Ton could finally put his foot down and stop behaving like a trained dog. If they love him, they have to accept who he is and who he will marry.

 

It also would match so wonderfully. She has the same origins like Tom, but she worked her way up and bettered herself. She would be a good role model for Sybbie. 

 

And they even have a little bit of history. They were friends back when she worked at the house. She could have had a little crush on him, which would be sweet.

[Tetraneutron]

Tom can't marry Gwen. In season four the servants got a letter saying she had gotten married. And I don't see how a former servant who fully believes in the system and wants to advance in the hierarchical world of business has anything in common with a socialist pro-Irish revolutionary.

Of course Edith is going to marry Bertie, the only living man who's ever spoken to her out of something besides politeness. The question is, will she be marrying an estate agent or the heir to a castle? The former would be more interesting but the show's desire to give every Crawley a happy ending tells me otherwise.

[ZoloftBlob]

Bertie is third cousin to the current lord.... he's sooo inheriting by surprise

[Andorra]

Tom can't marry Gwen. In season four the servants got a letter saying she had gotten married. And I don't see how a former servant who fully believes in the system and wants to advance in the hierarchical world of business has anything in common with a socialist pro-Irish revolutionary.

 

 

Come on husbands can die. That's easy.

 

Gwen would be a perfect solution, but I'm not optimistic. Rose Leslie started filming a movie at the end of May. So maybe this is just a one time cameo. What a pity!

[Avaleigh]

If there'd been more of a set up for it I could have got behind a Tom and Gwen pairing but not this late in the game. I'd prefer Madeline to Gwen.

I am glad that Gwen is returning though. I remember Mrs. Hughes giving her a hard time. It's hard to imagine Elsie being that way now.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Avaleigh

[Andorra]

If there'd been more of a set up for it I could have got behind a Tom and Gwen pairing but not this late in the game. I'd prefer Madeline to Gwen.

I am glad that Gwen is returning though. I remember Mrs. Hughes giving her a hard time. It's hard to imagine Elsie being that way now.

 

She would have been my favourite, too! She looked so much like Sybil and she was really nice, but had a cheeky side. I could have easily seen Tom falling in love with her, but he had to meet awful Miss Bunting instead and then get shipped of the America for 2 episodes. 

[Mom24kids]

Anybody else thinking about a Mrs. Patmore and that cop pairing? If anyone deserves a happy ending on this show it's her.

I think Mr. Mason will take over the Drews farm and fall for Mrs. Patmore. Then Daisy has a Mother figure and a Father figure!

[MissLucas]

The Drewes and Mr Morgan will swap farms - that's almost a given by now. But in my little dream world Mrs Hughes - exasperated by always being #2 on her future husband's list of priorities after Lady Mary - ditches the groom at the altar and sets up a Bed & Breakfast with Mrs Patmore who will hand over her job to Daisy who never showed any real interest in the farm she was going to 'inherit' anyway. I'd watch the spin-off.

[ZoloftBlob]

How many episodes are in this season?

[Andorra]

8 plus the CS. The same as in season 3, 4 and 5.

 

Looks like Gwen has her husband with her, so we can burry "Twen" just as fast as it appeared...

Edited October 4, 2015 by Andorra

[ZoloftBlob]

Well... Gwen could be a cheating bitch... :)

 

Thanks tho, I was curious how many episodes we have to set up the end.

Edited October 4, 2015 by ZoloftBlob

[wlk68]

They have very few episodes left in which to wrap up everyone's story lines. That's a LOT of people so I can't imagine they would drag out any dramatic story arcs unless the people involved are main players who have been there since the beginning. Whatever trouble Gwen brings, if she brings any at all, will most likely get wrapped up quickly. 

[foreverevolving]

Oh please let it be true! let Edith marry the guy who will end up inheriting a huge estate and a greater title than Mary's. For all we know it may be years before he does, WW2 is a decade or so away and it, like WW1, killed a good amount of the younger male population. For all we know everyone else on the inheritance list will truly die because of the war, or other very valid reasons.

[Eolivet]

I am also convinced that the last few episodes are gonna be slam bam "I had no idea none of the cast would come back for seasons 7-9" thank you ma'am.

 

Not sure if that's sarcasm, but I completely disagree. Fellowes knew before filming that this was the last season. As I said in an episode thread, I think he's very good at writing to an end point. He knows he has nine episodes to wrap it up, and I think the pace has been good so far. I've also not seen any evidence that any season other than 3 and possibly 2 were rushed at the end. If anything (other than season 3 and possibly 2), I think some of the stronger, more resonant episodes have come at the end (Rose's wedding, for one).

 

This has been the most even, best paced season since season 1, and I think it has to do with the end point. Fellowes was not meant to write for indefinite lengths of time. Then he gets antsy and throws in drama! or time-killing storylines (that kid going to chef school). But he does very well constraining himself to eight or nine episodes with a definite end.

 

I expect this season, much like season 1, to build gradually. I don't expect a lot of peaks and valleys. I've seen numerous storylines set in motion this season, all sort of going along at a steady pace and I don't see that changing.

 

In other words: the last thing I expect the ending to be is rushed.

[ZoloftBlob]

I hope you're right.

 

So far the first three episodes of this season are quite plodding considering that the end is coming. There's six episodes left and a whole lot of storylines to resolve. I want you to be right but honestly, knowing that Fellowes's process is to have the first four episodes written before filming and contracts are decided and based on interviews made where Fellowes and Naeme are all "this could run several more series", it seems like the end was a surprise.

 

I want to be wrong because I love the show and I want Mary to ride off into the sunset with Henry or Tom or John Smythe the blacksmith... but I am worried that the set up at Episode three of Nine suggests that people expected a season 7-9.

 

Right now we have six episodes to the end. I genuinely want you to be right that it will be an extravaganza of brilliant writing but three of the final nine episodes have been mostly place holding that represent Fellowes's unfortunate process.

[Hecate7]

Who dies this season: Violet or Robert?

 

Neither, I imagine. I expect it to be someone they hinted at in an earlier season. Just in case I'm right, I'm spoiler-tagging my guess even though it's a guess.

Mrs. Hughes.

[TyranAmiros]

Predictions: I'm going to guess Moseley leaves right after Daisy passes her exams to go into teaching and he and Baxter get married soon after. Andy's been avoiding Thomas more because he actually doesn't know Thomas is gay. The hospital drama is resolved by some compromise giving Dr. Clarkson some autonomy but joining fundraising/oversight. Robert independently comes up with the Drewe-Mason swap and Cora lets Daisy believe it was her that inspired it.

My guess for the death--Robert's too obvious ("indigestion"=ulcer 2.0), Anna in childbirth would be too much (I'm sure there'll be a scare here, though). Violet and Isobel are going to outlive us all. I would not be surprised if it were Rosamund (allowing Edith to take over Crawley House) or Mrs. Patmore (put Daisy in the position of choosing between her studies and taking over the kitchen). Hopefully it's going to be Denke and Spratt.

[Eolivet]

Hecate7, that's a pretty brilliant guess, especially given all the anvils about "for the rest of our lives."

 

So far the first three episodes of this season are quite plodding considering that the end is coming. There's six episodes left and a whole lot of storylines to resolve.

 

Yes, but unlike prior seasons, at least for me -- I see progress in the plots every episode vs. the "all or nothing" approach from previous seasons. Violet vs. Isobel, Daisy coming into her own, Thomas considering leaving, Edith's dissatisfaction about her life. There's been incremental movement for each of these stories in a way I don't remember from prior seasons, where everything either happened at once (hello, Rose and Atticus' whirlwind romance or obviously, Matthew is suddenly right about everything estate-related!) or nothing happened at all, ever (Mary's suitors, again, some more; Bates. In. Prison.)

 

I don't expect the final season to be some impressive achievement of great writing. I do expect it to be the conclusion of a bunch of quiet stories, which to me, was always Fellowes' strong suit. Right now, the final season feels just like the last few chapters of a book -- it's nearly all denouement. But for a show like Downton, I think that's fine, right and proper, as they say.

[ZoloftBlob]

Again, I hope you're right but we're coming up on episode four and that means the Henry Talbot storyline has to occur pretty quickly. As does the Bertie storyline.

[Andorra]

I'm still puzzled that Henry Talbot is supposed to be the "endgame" love interest. Seriously, if I wouldn't know it otherwise, I'd think Michelle Dockery lied and Tom and Mary is going to be endgame. Did you see how he looked at her the whole time in the scene when he said why he came back? 

 

The whole Henry Talbot storyline seems so rushed if he will only appear next episode for the first time. Edith and Bertie Pelham will have more time. But then again we had Rose in love, engaged and married in 3 episodes last year. 

 

It's weird. 

[Eolivet]

I don't think we'll see Mary get married again -- in fact, I think there's a good chance Mary and Henry end on an ambiguous note (similar to Mary and Matthew in season 1). But Edith? She's been chomping at the bit to get married since season 1. I like that Edith has been allowed to settle things professionally (essentially take care of herself) before any romance is introduced. I hope Fellowes thinks (as I agree) that Edith won't be happy with someone else unless she learns to love herself first. I feel like these eps have been laying that groundwork. It would make a marriage more an extension of the new person she is rather than the "desperate Edith" of seasons past.

 

I actually think Fellowes now realizes the audience will never accept anyone else for Mary other than Matthew and will write it so Mary is alone, but with options. On that note, I don't expect Tom to pair up with anyone either.

 

Also had another thought about the death. Wouldn't it be interesting if the person can't be saved because the hospital is outdated? It worked for Sybil's death and Fellowes does like to revisit plotlines.

[ZoloftBlob]

Andorra - I suppose my point is that whatever the "endgame" is (and I have to assume *somebody* is getting a storyline involving Henry Talbot because why else hire Matthew Goode at all if he's just there to stand around, that's currently Tom's job) - we're three episodes in with six to go and there's some major wrap up to do while we fritter around on whether Mr. Mason will keep his tenancy. My assumption is that the first four episodes were in the can, already written, and Fellowes wasn't expecting the cancellation which is why I'm worried its going to move pretty briskly. Like I told Eolivet, I hope I am wrong.

[ElizaD]

Also had another thought about the death. Wouldn't it be interesting if the person can't be saved because the hospital is outdated? It worked for Sybil's death and Fellowes does like to revisit plotlines.

 

I'm starting to feel that Robert might be dying. Edith gets a husband who becomes the surprise heir to a title and Mary is the new dowager countess (without the title), running things for George with Tom's help and with Henry as her fiancé/the man she'll continue dating. I thought that maybe Downton could be turned into a hospital, but I can't see Mary accepting that when she's become so determined to run Downton and has already had some success adapting it to the 1920s.

[Andorra]

Andorra - I suppose my point is that whatever the "endgame" is (and I have to assume *somebody* is getting a storyline involving Henry Talbot because why else hire Matthew Goode at all if he's just there to stand around, that's currently Tom's job) - we're three episodes in with six to go and there's some major wrap up to do while we fritter around on whether Mr. Mason will keep his tenancy. My assumption is that the first four episodes were in the can, already written, and Fellowes wasn't expecting the cancellation which is why I'm worried its going to move pretty briskly. Like I told Eolivet, I hope I am wrong.

 

No, that's definitely not true. He  and GN (and several actors have confirmed it) have gone on record, that they wanted to end after 5 seasons (it was reported after season 3 that the actors got a contract for 2 additional seasons, which would also confirm this theory). When they planned the fifth season though, they found it was too rushed. So they talked to the actors and prolonged for another series. The actors have said that they all knew before season 5 that the show would end after season 6. 

[ZoloftBlob]

Can I ask where you're seeing this? I don't doubt you - its kinda not that big of a deal either way - but the only interviews I saw were how  "we could keep this going to series 7-9" and I haven't seen any of the actors talking about only being signed for two more years... To be fair, I don't scour the english news so that may be where I missed it. Meanwhile, it still seems like after all the fuss, the Henry Talbot storyline is going to be rushed.

[Andorra]

The contracts were reported first by Ausiello in 2012. It was the first clue that Sybil, Matthew and O'Brien were going to leave the show. He said in March 2012 that all actors got contracted for 2 additional seasons and that those three had not (yet) signed the contract.

 

At the press tour for season 5 GN said, that they would not run into the same problem again and that they talked to the cast in advance to (season 5) and knew who was going to stay.

 

After season 5 a lot of the actors were pretty clear that season 6 was going to be the last (Maggie Smith was among them who didn't only hint, but actually came out and said it) and then when Julian Fellows announced the ending, the actors all said, that they had known for quite a while, but of course weren't allowed to say it. The Julian Fellows and GN said in various interviews that they had planned to end it after 5 seasons, but felt it was rushed and so they decided to prolong it for another season when they planned season 5. 

 

And I agree, the Henry Talbot storylines (if he's going to be endgame) is disappointing before it even began, because in my eyes it will not be be able to develop nicely in just 6 episodes. The same goes for a potential new love interest for Tom. I can't understand why they didn't bring someone in for him in two boring seasons where he had nothing to do but stand around moping and sighing? It would have made so much more sense! 

 

And even though they said, they wanted Matthew Goode all along as Mary's love interest, I can't really believe it. Yes, Goode is a good actor and a good looking fellow, but you can't tell me that there weren't other actors who would have been just as well as Mary's endgame love interest? They should have given Mary time to grieve in season 4 and have Tom fall in love again instead and then they could have developed a nice romantic storyline for Mary in season 5 and conclude it in season 6. Why writing a romantic storyline for Mary completely around the schedule of Matthew Goode? That's beyond me.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Andorra

[ZoloftBlob]

And even though they said, they wanted Matthew Goode all along as Mary's love interest, I can't really believe it.

 

This feels like a retcon. I mean, I have nothing against Matthew Goode at all but it's not he's that special of an actor that they needed to waste two seasons waiting for him to free up his schedule - and this totally ruins the whole "we intended just two more seasons" concept too.

 

That said - I do want the Talbot storyline to be good. I'm just getting worried there won't be time to do it.

[Andorra]

I don't know how it can be good. It will be totally predictable bla bla bla. He comes for a visit, they flirt, they fall in love, she doesn't like his car racing, he doesn't want to give it up, he has an accident, she breaks up with him, they meet again some time later, she falls in his arms and he has given up racing, they marry. 

[ZoloftBlob]

In fairness, its as predictable as Mary and Matthew and "everyone wants us to marry so of course we shall be contrary!" but part of why that did work was chemistry between the actors. So since Matthew Goode has a good reputation as an actor, if it goes as you describe... and I don't think you're wrong, if there's some actual sparkle between the actors it will work and I will enjoy it. But if it's as flat as Charles or Tony (and I really really think Tony was intended as an endgame) then it's not going to work for the very reasons you line up - its predictable and obvious.

 

Also I believe there's a possibility Henry will die in the car crash because Fellowes loves to be lauded for "revisiting" old plots.

[Andorra]

At least with Matthew we didn't have an endpoint. As it is now, knowing that this series is going to be the last, it really bothers me that the Talbot storyline is so obvious. I bet it is to be THE big romance of the series and I hate that I already know how it is going to end. I would have preferred it if they hadn't brought Goode in last season. If he would only appear now and woe Mary of her feet it would be better. As it is now, I'm seriously mad about the storyline  and I would actually even like it if he DID die in a car crash, because then at least something would happen that would surprise me. 

[Eolivet]

I don't think there's a snowball's chance that Henry Talbot dies. MD herself said (paraphrased) "It all seems very nice and lovely and then Julian throws a cat amongst the pigeons." She wouldn't be talking so cavalierly if it's a death.

 

I think Andorra has hit the nail mostly on the head: he'll be in a car accident and Mary will break up with him. Except I think there's a chance that he's still racing when they meet again, and Mary decides life is too short (they've all but guaranteed a death in the finale -- it's being called "heartbreaking"). I also think there's a chance she gets a Choose Your Own Adventure ending, where you can imagine she ended up with Henry, Tom, Matthew's ghost, or that she pulls a Kelly Taylor, all "I choose me!"

[ZoloftBlob]

Hehehe hasn't she been pulling a Kelly Taylor card for a while now? :)