TeeVee329 August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 I really do wish they could bring back Brian. For Paul. Will definitely needs to focus on Ari/Gabby when that sitch happens. THen if they recast Sonny, they can work on more WilSon stories...repairing the Tomsell damage. I keep seeing this point, that Tomsell ruined Will and Sonny and the damage they did has to be repaired. But, and correct me if I'm wrong, weren't they the writing team that came in with the Days-aster and rapidly put them together in the first place? Link to comment
Apprentice79 August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 (edited) Yes, Mardar was told not to write for Sonny and Will..Remember when Sonny disappeared....They laid the foundation for Wilson that was originally conceived by Higley..I think they wrote Will's coming out story and Will working for EJ...Higley always planned to put Wilson together, but got fired...She brought Sonny back to town...She also planned to give them a baby via Gaby..I think the different writing teams after her put their spin on it...It makes sense to me why Tomsell destroyed Wilson in favor of Paulson..Since Paulson was their baby, whereas Wilson was something that they were mandated to write for... Edited August 25, 2015 by Apprentice79 2 Link to comment
TeeVee329 August 25, 2015 Author Share August 25, 2015 I remember some stupidity with Will, Sonny, Chad, and a web site...or something? Link to comment
Apprentice79 August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 Yes, I think that was Mardar..I am not sure...Mardar had good ideas, they just executed it badly... Link to comment
TeeVee329 August 25, 2015 Author Share August 25, 2015 It makes sense to me why Tomsell destroyed Wilson in favor of Paulson..Since Paulson was their baby, whereas Wilson was something that they were mandated to write for... That doesn't make sense to me. Maybe they were told to write Will and Sonny together, but they're the ones who wrote it, the early courtship that people seemed to like. And I didn't have a problem with them adding a spoiler for them after a few years like Paul, though the writing of it ended up being a mess. Link to comment
Apprentice79 August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 That is just my theory because they made Paulson equal to Wilson..In some ways, they diminished them in favor of Paulson..Paul was their creation... Link to comment
TeeVee329 August 25, 2015 Author Share August 25, 2015 But Will and Sonny's actual romantic relationship was their creation too. The credit for that seems to be getting lost in the shuffle. And there had to be some weight behind the Paul end of the triangle, otherwise what's the point? Link to comment
Apprentice79 August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 True, but Will should have had favorable writing than Paul....They focus on plot-driven stories, instead of it being Character-driven... 1 Link to comment
TeeVee329 August 25, 2015 Author Share August 25, 2015 The writing for Will was a mess, but there would be no triangle if Will was perfection personified and their marriage was super awesome and problem free. Link to comment
Black Knight August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 I'm not defending the writing at all, but they may have thought that Guy Wilson would be able to play some nuances that would cause viewers to sympathize with Will more even though he was screwing up. There was plenty there that a better actor could have mined for sympathy: Please see JL, AZ, KdP, AS... Link to comment
Apprentice79 August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 (edited) They wrote Will horribly....The Emma/Shane/Kim triangle was a triangle where Kim was a mess, but she was a sympathetic mess...Shane was torn between them for a while, they actually broke up because of his feelings for Emma...Emma turned out to be evil and Kim was never written as being unworthy of Shane..Shane knew of her past as a prostitute and loved her anyway.Their problems were internal that was always exacerbated by external forces..When Kim slept with Victor, it was to save Shane's life. That caused alot of problems for Kim and Shane..Will cheated on Sonny because he was a selfish douchebag and the show has yet to articulate Will's motivation for doing that...Will was written as being unworthy of Sonny and Paul was propped like Daniel..He is the Gay Daniel... Edited August 25, 2015 by Apprentice79 5 Link to comment
swtrgrl August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 The website story just played out in the background of my computer. I listen to old youtubes at work. I know. I'm obsessed. That is just my theory because they made Paulson equal to Wilson..In some ways, they diminished them in favor of Paulson..Paul was their creation...They did diminish WilSon in favor of Paulson. The retconned so much to justify Paulson. We've discussed this ad nauseum but: Sonny did NOT coax Will out of the closet into his bed nor did Sonny use Will and Ari as a substitute for Paul after his rejection. 3 Link to comment
Apprentice79 August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 (edited) The website story just played out in the background of my computer. I listen to old youtubes at work. I know. I'm obsessed. They did diminish WilSon in favor of Paulson. The retconned so much to justify Paulson. We've discussed this ad nauseum but: Sonny did NOT coax Will out of the closet into his bed nor did Sonny use Will and Ari as a substitute for Paul after his rejection. Exactly..I love your post....Rock on! Paulson was their baby and Wilson was not...They were mandated to write for them..Just like Ken Corday hated EJamie and was told by the network to write for them because they were hugely popular....I wish somebody could force him to bring Jack Devereaux back... Edited August 25, 2015 by Apprentice79 Link to comment
TeeVee329 August 25, 2015 Author Share August 25, 2015 (edited) But again, the story of their romance that you all just admitted you loved was written BY THEM. The retconned so much to justify Paulson. We've discussed this ad nauseum but: Sonny did NOT coax Will out of the closet into his bed nor did Sonny use Will and Ari as a substitute for Paul after his rejection. True. That said - creepy wish in Sonny's New Year's box. Edited August 25, 2015 by TeeVee329 1 Link to comment
Apprentice79 August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 (edited) Speaking of wishes, did they ever tell us what was Sonny's wish this past New Year's Eve in his box was? Perhaps a sibling for Arianna via Sonny... Edited August 25, 2015 by Apprentice79 Link to comment
Ruby Red August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 But again, the story of their romance that you all just admitted you loved was written BY THEM. True. That said - creepy wish in Sonny's New Year's box. What are you referring to? If the show ever planned on Sonny to have an ex to return to cause drama, they could have brought it up a long time ago. The only time Sonny mentioned an ex was when he said, "My ex is the most selfish person I know." to Will saying how selfish Sami was. Which was not any hint of him being hung up on someone else, he never mentioned anything about a first love. 3 Link to comment
Apprentice79 August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 (edited) Exactly....Sonny had said that statement with alot of bitterness..It was Mardar that put those words in Sonny's mouth and not Tomsell..Will was reeling after finding Sami and EJ having sex on that couch in the Dimera living room.. Edited August 25, 2015 by Apprentice79 Link to comment
swtrgrl August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 (edited) hat said - creepy wish in Sonny's New Year's box I don't think it's creepy. He wanted Will to fall in love with him like he had fallen in love with Will. His wish came true. Why do you think it's creepy (not being ugly, honestly I want to know your POV) I don't mind the first love retcon. I just mind the retcon that Sonny used Will/Ari as a substitue for not getting that first love to commit for whatever reason. Like his relationship with will was nothing b/c he just wished it was Paul the whole time. NO. Just...NO NO NO NO NO. Edited August 25, 2015 by swtrgrl 2 Link to comment
TeeVee329 August 25, 2015 Author Share August 25, 2015 Which was not any hint of him being hung up on someone else, he never mentioned anything about a first love. No soap character mentions a first love - or really, any romantic relationship that happened off-canvas (see Eric and Serena) - until that character is created and shows up. 5 Link to comment
swtrgrl August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 Again, the first love isn't my issue. It's all the stuff after that about Sonny's motivation for falling for/manipulating Will into a family situation. 2 Link to comment
TeeVee329 August 25, 2015 Author Share August 25, 2015 I don't think it's creepy. He wanted Will to fall in love with him like he had fallen in love with Will. His wish came true. Why do you think it's creepy (not being ugly, honestly I want to know your POV) I remember the wording of the wishing being more, "I'll make Will fall in love with me", though honestly, I could be remembering it wrong. But either way, It's one of those Dobler-Dahmer things because I didn't think it was as charming as the show thought it was. To be honest, I thought the switch from them being friends to being so in lurve - which coincided with the writers switch - happened too fast with little to no explanation. 1 Link to comment
Ruby Red August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 (edited) No soap character mentions a first love - or really, any romantic relationship that happened off-canvas (see Eric and Serena) - until that character is created and shows up. True, it is a soap! What was I thinking! They never do such things, each character only has one true love until they get a new love interest and they become their true love! I did think the note was a little creepy to be fair. I mean... You can not make someone fall in love with you, it made it seem like he only wanted to be friends with Will because Sonny liked him and wanted him to like him back. Edited August 25, 2015 by Ruby Red 1 Link to comment
Ruby Red August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 I remember the wording of the wishing being more, "I'll make Will fall in love with me", though honestly, I could be remembering it wrong. But either way, It's one of those Dobler-Dahmer things because I didn't think it was as charming as the show thought it was. To be honest, I thought the switch from them being friends to being so in lurve - which coincided with the writers switch - happened too fast with little to no explanation. I thought that was the wording as well, which seemed weird to me. Hmm,, I am not sure how rushed it was. It took months until Will and Sonny's relationship took the romantic route.But going from two people just liking each other, to being in love and suddenly getting engaged? Yeah, getting engaged was way too fast. 3 Link to comment
Apprentice79 August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 (edited) I think the show should have given them more angst like the other couples in the past, before getting married..If anything it would have been cool to see Nick do some digging into Sonny's past in hopes of breaking up the golden couple as he used to call them snidely....Sonny is the one that was strong enough to keep Nick at bay, Gabi and Will always gave into his demands..They should have kept Sonny and Nick as bitter enemies..Plus, I love it when Sonny has an edge... Edited August 25, 2015 by Apprentice79 Link to comment
TeeVee329 August 25, 2015 Author Share August 25, 2015 Hmm,, I am not sure how rushed it was. It took months until Will and Sonny's relationship took the romantic route.But going from two people just liking each other, to being in love and suddenly getting engaged? Yeah, getting engaged was way too fast. One minute, they were just friends, Sonny was almost a mentor to Will. The next, Sonny kisses him after the Days-saster and is all totally in. I thought it was too quick. And also, a lot of their "obstacles" in the beginning were lame misunderstandings and T. 1 Link to comment
Apprentice79 August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 True..I think they should have given them real angst like the couples of the past, but not the love triangle bit...It was awful from start to finish...It ruined Wilson..They should have given them obstacles that were more internal..Will is Lumi's kid and Sonny is a Kiriakis...They should have been able to come up with good stories for them..There should have been a family member who disapproved of their gay relationship, possibly one of the Kiriakis twins... 1 Link to comment
Ruby Red August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 (edited) One minute, they were just friends, Sonny was almost a mentor to Will. The next, Sonny kisses him after the Days-saster and is all totally in. I thought it was too quick. And also, a lot of their "obstacles" in the beginning were lame misunderstandings and T. Yeah, I only watched the storyline one time and it was a long while ago. I can remember how I thought it was rushed how Sonny suddenly kissed him because he genuinely seemed to just wanted to be Will's friend. Since when was he into Will like that? Edited August 25, 2015 by Ruby Red Link to comment
TeeVee329 August 25, 2015 Author Share August 25, 2015 There should have been a family member who disapproved of their gay relationship, possibly one of the Kiriakis twins... You mean like Lucas? 1 Link to comment
Apprentice79 August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 Lucas was more scared about the kind of life that it would be for his son...I meant a true homophobe, who will be screaming that you are going to hell.. 1 Link to comment
Ruby Red August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 Lucas did disapprove of the relationship at first, but I think they played it off as him being more worried about the potential of gay bashing etc. and that Will would have some difficult times because he is gay. Or was that Sami's initial concern?It's a shame they never brought in any of Sonny's brothers. 1 Link to comment
Apprentice79 August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 (edited) Exactly, they could have explored that with one of Sonny's brothers..I hated that all the drama came from Will's side..The Kiriakis family is not perfect...One of his brothers could have been okay with Sonny being Gay, but not be in a relationship with another man, marry that man and raise children...That kind of complexity could have been cool to see...It does happen in real life... Edited August 25, 2015 by Apprentice79 1 Link to comment
Rick Kitchen August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 Rafe's got his job back and already going after Chad? He probably doesn't care about the evidence at all. He's a Dimera so lock him up. Good that Justin's not going to like Rafe. Chad himself doesn't know if he killed Serena. He was drunk and he passed out. This was after Serena slugged him in public. So I don't see it as Rafe going after Chad because of his being a DiMera. Also, I don't see Justin not liking Rafe, just disagreeing on a case. But again, the story of their romance that you all just admitted you loved was written BY THEM. True. That said - creepy wish in Sonny's New Year's box. Chandler said on the recent AfterBuzz interview that the New Year's resolution was his favorite thing ever. One minute, they were just friends, Sonny was almost a mentor to Will. The next, Sonny kisses him after the Days-saster and is all totally in. I thought it was too quick. And also, a lot of their "obstacles" in the beginning were lame misunderstandings and T. That's not true. Sonny yearned for Will for a long time. The scene where Will kissed Kris Kristofferson's son, you could see Sonny's feelings. When Will came out and they hugged, you could see Sonny's feelings. 1 Link to comment
Apprentice79 August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 (edited) I will go even further to say that the minute that Sonny laid his eyes on Will at the pier, he wanted him... Edited August 25, 2015 by Apprentice79 Link to comment
Ruby Red August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jezlE7MTy4@ 4:43One thing that seems consistent is that Sonny always wanted to have the "white picket fence", a family and all that jazz. Only he realized that he was going to have it with a man and not a woman. 1 Link to comment
Apprentice79 August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 I think that Sonny having the affair instead of Will would have been much better, especially with Will struggling with forgiving Sonny after Sonny has forgiven him for alot... 2 Link to comment
TeeVee329 August 25, 2015 Author Share August 25, 2015 One thing that seems consistent is that Sonny always wanted to have the "white picket fence", a family and all that jazz. Only he realized that he was going to have it with a man and not a woman. But when Will first found out Gabi was pregnant and wasn't sure what to do, wasn't Sonny going on and on about not necessarily wanting kids and wanting to go on adventures and the like? I think that Sonny having the affair instead of Will would have been much better, especially with Will struggling with forgiving Sonny after Sonny has forgiven him for alot... I still think they should have done more with Sonny bankrupting them. 1 Link to comment
Rick Kitchen August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 I still think they should have done more with Sonny bankrupting them. That whole storyline just got ... dropped. There was never any explanation as to why Chad intentionally bankrupted Sonny. 3 Link to comment
Ruby Red August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 But when Will first found out Gabi was pregnant and wasn't sure what to do, wasn't Sonny going on and on about not necessarily wanting kids and wanting to go on adventures and the like? Hah, I think he did... That whole storyline just got ... dropped. There was never any explanation as to why Chad intentionally bankrupted Sonny. It was a weird and random storyline, not sure what the point was.All DiMera's can not be trusted, maybe? Bet the writers realized it was going nowhere, so they dropped it. Link to comment
bobcat1946 August 25, 2015 Share August 25, 2015 I think that Sonny having the affair instead of Will would have been much better, especially with Will struggling with forgiving Sonny after Sonny has forgiven him for alot... IA. Sonny should have been the one who cheated so Will could have seen how his mother felt when his saint cousin screwed his mother's man. 1 Link to comment
Happytobehere August 26, 2015 Share August 26, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jezlE7MTy4 @ 4:43 One thing that seems consistent is that Sonny always wanted to have the "white picket fence", a family and all that jazz. Only he realized that he was going to have it with a man and not a woman. Thanks for posting. I loved Will and Sonny when CM was playing him. Link to comment
swtrgrl August 26, 2015 Share August 26, 2015 (edited) One minute, they were just friends, Sonny was almost a mentor to Will. The next, Sonny kisses him after the Days-saster and is all totally in I disagree with this. Very soon after Will comes out to Sami & Lucas, Lucas has a talk with Sonny about what he (Lucas) can do to make things easier on Will, etc... Lucas asks him straight up if he's interested in Will and Sonny says that while Will may not be ready for it yet, indeed Sonny does like Will as more than a friend. Lucas says he approves b/c Sonny is being respectful of Will's unreadiness for a relationship at that stage and that he's glad Sonny thinks Will is worth waiting for. In the hospital after Will is shot, Sonny talks to a sleeping Will (post surgery/meds) and tells him how he noticed him from the day they met and how hard it was to wait for him to come to terms with who he was, etc... and that the best day of his life (so far) was the day Will told him he loved him. I have been watching YouTube clips back to back to back for a month now. WilSon calms my anxiety. But as always, I respect others' interpretations. It's what makes the world go 'round. Edited August 26, 2015 by swtrgrl 1 Link to comment
radishcake August 26, 2015 Share August 26, 2015 A place to discuss the history of the DOOL universe. Why people got together, what their storylines were before, how their storyline SHOULD have gone, or what TPTB have dropped over the years. Basically if it ain't a current plots discussion (what happened today) then it's a PAST plot discussion! Have fun! 1 Link to comment
TeeVee329 August 26, 2015 Author Share August 26, 2015 In the hospital after Will is shot, Sonny talks to a sleeping Will (post surgery/meds) and tells him how he noticed him from the day they met and how hard it was to wait for him to come to terms with who he was, etc... and that the best day of his life (so far) was the day Will told him he loved him. And my point was that this was a tiny bit of a retcon, Sonny having been in love with Will from moment one, once the new writers came in after the Days-saster and it was full speed ahead on putting them together, just like the New Year's wish. I actually liked that Will and Sonny didn't leap right into each others' arms. I really liked that Will's first kiss with a guy wasn't with Sonny, but just some random. In fact, I think it might have benefited them altogether if Will had had a whole starter relationship - possibly with sex - before getting with Sonny. British soap "EastEnders" did something like that and I liked it. 1 Link to comment
TeeVee329 August 26, 2015 Author Share August 26, 2015 (edited) It was the big disaster stunt that kicked off a switch in writers a few years ago, the show's last big "Look how we're fixing "Days!" bid. Thanks to Gabi, a gas line under Salem blew up or something. Jack died saving Abigail and Madison (Brady's fiancée) died. Edited August 26, 2015 by TeeVee329 2 Link to comment
Apprentice79 August 26, 2015 Share August 26, 2015 They killed Jack and kept Dr. Tan to torture us with his holiness.... Link to comment
minirth August 26, 2015 Share August 26, 2015 Wow, I have been wondering if I've been too hard on Gabi, since I've seen so little of her story with Nick (catching up on YouTube), but I see I have not. I thought she was just useless, turns out she's a damn menace! Link to comment
TeeVee329 August 26, 2015 Author Share August 26, 2015 (edited) Well, the explosion was an accident, kinda. I don't remember the details, but she hired/convinced some crazy guy to kidnap Melanie so she could take a shot at Chad and it spiraled from there. Edited August 26, 2015 by TeeVee329 Link to comment
LeftPhalange August 26, 2015 Share August 26, 2015 What on earth was the DAYS-aster? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9rCPopPscw Jack died saving that trashbag. Wow, I have been wondering if I've been too hard on Gabi, since I've seen so little of her story with Nick (catching up on YouTube), but I see I have not. I thought she was just useless, turns out she's a damn menace! The gas line under Salem blowing up was an accident. Long story short - she hired a guy to stalk her so Chad would come to her rescue and fall for her (he was dating Melanie at the time). The guy became obsessed with Melanie held her captive. He blackmailed Gabi into keeping quiet. The guy and Melanie ended up in an underground tunnel that was starting to crumble. The commotion of the guy and Melanie combined with Gabi, Chad, and Brady going down there to rescue her led to the whole thing collapsing and caused an explosion. 4 Link to comment
boes August 26, 2015 Share August 26, 2015 The guy became obsessed with Melanie held her captive. He blackmailed Gabi into keeping quiet. The guy and Melanie ended up in an underground tunnel that was starting to crumble. The commotion of the guy and Melanie combined with Gabi, Chad, and Brady going down there to rescue her led to the whole thing collapsing and caused an explosion. Man, talk about nonsensical plots! I can see getting obsessed about Melanie ONLY if it's because you want to cement her lips shut to stop all the giggly baby talk. I would have kicked in a couple of bucks too, if it would have been enough to keep both Melanie AND Gabi mute. Those were the days, believe it or not, when Abigail wasn't the most irritating female young'un in Salem. Of course, the crown is hers forever now. Link to comment
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