S01.E12: Episode Twelve/S01.E13: Episode Thirteen

[SimoneS]

It does not surprise me that so many people are confused about if Five really did the memory wipe. The show has been so convoluted and nonsensical at times that it is difficult to know what is really going on and what should be taken at face value. Whatever Mallozzi (the creator) is claiming, it seems clear to me that he only decided that Five was behind the wipe when he was writing episode 12. As soon as Five told the others that she had deprogrammed the ship, Six said that he did not know that she could do that, and she responded that neither did she, I knew the writers had decided that Five had done the memory wipe.  I am not bothering to speculate the reasons for Five or Six's actions because I am sure that the writer has not decided them as yet. 

 

I didn't have a problem with Five getting rid of the Android's backup in principle; it was just a hologram that was completely robotic in nature. I understood why she did it and I even agreed with her - if she didn't dump the hologram, the hologram was going to essentially kill the Android, who is clearly sentient at this point, by insisting on a clean wipe back to factory settings. I think the entire crew would have agreed with Five that the Android should be saved as she is. But I did think it was exceedingly dumb of Five not to question the hologram first about who the traitor was. The hologram was observing the Android, so probably knew it was Six who took out the Android.

 

I don't have a problem with Five having the hologram delete itself either. IMO, she acted to "protect" the Android and ultimately the crew because it is the Android's growing sentience has bonded her with the crew and has caused her to act beyond her programming to save their lives. The Android is "young" and might have taken the hologram's suggestion to reset itself. 

 

As for Five not asking the hologram who attacked the Android, that is par for course with this show, stupidity to facilitate flawed plots.

Edited August 30, 2015 by SimoneS

[MissLucas]

The only problem I have with Red Android is that she served no obvious purpose. We already knew that the Android was not behaving within 'normal parameters', the few times Red Androd showed up she just confirmed what already had been established by the Android's behavior and exchanges she had had with members of the crew - notably Five and Two.

 

I expected Red Android to play an important part in an episode where the Android got disabled once more. But they never used her that way - as mentioned above Five wasn't even asking her about the attack on the Android. The only faint justification I can find for her plot was to show that Five's favorite MO when faced with a problem is apparently 'Delete!'

Edited August 30, 2015 by MissLucas

[Black Knight]

It does not surprise me that so many people are confused about if Five really did the memory wipe. The show has been so convoluted and nonsensical at times that it is difficult to know what is really going on and what should be taken at face value. Whatever Mallozzi (the creator) is claiming, it seems clear to me that he only decided that Five was behind the wipe when he was writing episode 12. As soon as Five told the others that she had deprogrammed the ship, Six said that he did not know that she could do that, and she responded that neither did she, I knew the writers had decided that Five had done the memory wipe.  I am not bothering to speculate the reasons for Five or Six's actions because I am sure that the writer has not decided them as yet. 

 

I don't have a problem with Five having the hologram delete itself either. IMO, she acted to "protect" the Android and ultimately the crew because it is the Android's growing sentience has bonded her with the crew and has caused her to act beyond her programming to save their lives. The Android is "young" and might have taken the hologram's suggestion to reset itself. 

I'm glad we got to see a conversation between the Android and the hologram. Although I completely believe Five was right to delete the hologram, rather than take the risk that the Android would reset itself based on the hologram's contention, it was good to see where the Android's own mind was currently at. She seemed to have made peace with the idea that she had feelings - more than just making peace, actually, she also seemed to have come around to viewing it as a good thing that would ultimately be better for the crew and the ship. She no longer seemed to care about the hologram's opinion. But Five didn't know about that conversation, and in any case, I wouldn't have wanted to take the risk if I were her. It was just a hologram, not a sentient being - it was no different than when I delete an app I don't want or need anymore.

 

I actually never realized that Five supposedly couldn't program, as that just goes hand-in-hand with her established talents. I remember a poster commenting very early on in the show's run that it seemed that the only people who would have the technical capability for the memory wipe were Two, Five and the Android, so I wasn't alone in that. I don't remember it ever being said that she couldn't program, until the scene where Six said he thought she couldn't program, so I think it was just a clumsy way to hint at the audience that Five was the one who did the memory-wipe. She was always the likeliest candidate in my mind, although for a different reason than it appears her motivation actually was: I thought she felt at risk as a stowaway/unwanted passenger amidst the hardcore group of the Raza and the memory-wipe was her way of protecting herself. But trying to wipe Two's and Four's memories to prevent them killing one of the other men is in line with her characterization.

 

That was a nice reveal in another way: Two and Four have been the two with the least connection to each other this season. Every other combination of characters has had at least a few relationship-building scenes, but not Two and Four. And now we find out that Two was probably closest to Four and vice versa pre-wipe. I don't mean romantically, I don't care about the hookups on this show (and I'm glad to see Malozzi doesn't care either), just in terms of connection.

 

On the one hand, it broke my heart after that awesome crew scene where they were all together and happy and really seemed like a true family for the first time - including the Android! - that it all went to hell...but part of me was also intrigued by the tearing apart of all the major relationships the show had built, with the exception of Five and Six (another clue that he would turn out to be the traitor), and the way past interactions played into that. Although it wasn't said out loud, it's clear the reason Two sided with Three over One is because Three was the one who gave the code word. It'll be interesting to see the dynamics in S2. Four was knocked out so early on that I would say his relationships are basically intact - he never really had the chance to turn on anyone or have anyone turn on him. One/Two are blown apart (yay!), so are Two/Five (awwwww...but I am looking forward to the angst), and of course Six/everyone. But on the flip side, Two/Three are extremely strong now, and One/Five are solid. But One isn't going to be forgiving Two anytime soon, and I don't think Two will be quick to forgive Five anytime soon either, so getting that foursome to work together...oof. At least with Two, both of the other men were innocent, but Five had two core relationships and she got who was guilty and who was innocent mixed up, which probably carries an extra sting. (And honestly, Five, if Two keeps handing you a gun, she's not the one. Especially since she knows you can shoot to kill.)

 

But I rewatched, and I'm thinking more than ever that Two is the one besides Five that Six doesn't have it in for. Six told Five that the reason she wasn't leaving the ship with the rest of them was because he knew Two wouldn't want that. So for Six, Two has two (sorry) things in her favor: 1) She was the other one who didn't want to take that device-stealing job in the first place 2) Like him, she was always protective of Five. And although we didn't see it, it's possible Six also knows from conversation with Two or the Android that Two wanted to know how many people died at the research station even though the Android offered to keep that knowledge from her. If so, that's a third point in Two's favor, because Six was looking for signs of remorse. I think Six is most against Three and Four, and then One because One engineered and manipulated (by leaving Five out of it, when before he always said she should have a vote) the group discussion about the job. Chances are he feels that the Android and Five will get off on account of being an android and a teenager, respectively, and that Two can escape custody so long as nobody blabs what she is and what's necessary to depower her, and he has no reason to think anyone will because the crew has proven their loyalty to Two.

[DEM]

That was a nice reveal in another way: Two and Four have been the two with the least connection to each other this season. Every other combination of characters has had at least a few relationship-building scenes, but not Two and Four.

 

Funny you should mention that! I've been re-watching episodes, and I finished ep9. Two and Four had a heart-to-heart in Two's quarters after the team rescued Four. Interestingly, Four called the crew his 'true family' -- making him the first person to use that word to describe them. Looking back on that scene with the benefit of hindsight gives it even more (or a different kind of) oomph than it had the first time around.

 

Is there any interest in a 'season as a whole' thread?

Edited August 30, 2015 by DEM

[sjohnson]

Taking DNA for records, medical checks for prison, etc. are inevitable. Lin is already ratted out. It's just a matter of time and the only way they can possibly strain to justify her going unnoticed is saying prison medicine is seriously crap.

[Black Knight]

Funny you should mention that! I've been re-watching episodes, and I finished ep9. Two and Four had a heart-to-heart in Two's quarters after the team rescued Four. Interestingly, Four called the crew his 'true family' -- making him the first person to use that word to describe them. Looking back on that scene with the benefit of hindsight gives it even more (or a different kind of) oomph than it had the first time around.

 

Is there any interest in a 'season as a whole' thread?

Thanks - I remembered Four saying that about "true family" but I didn't remember that Two was the only one he said it to.

 

I think a season thread would make sense since S1 focused on the dynamics of the crew in preparation for the season finale and the fallout that will be S2. 

 

Taking DNA for records, medical checks for prison, etc. are inevitable. Lin is already ratted out. It's just a matter of time and the only way they can possibly strain to justify her going unnoticed is saying prison medicine is seriously crap.

I disagree. Today we fingerprint people who are arrested, but we don't bother with other medical checks. (We don't know if there's anything unusual about Two's DNA, anyway.) Why would that really be any different in the future, when they seem to have already identified Two as the perpetrator of various crimes without benefit of blood tests? From what I understand, biologically her body is like any other human's, it's the nanites that make her different, so she would pass most medical checks if they bothered to give them, which I doubt anyway. There's no reason for the GA to give Two special treatment unless someone in her crew rats her out, which none of them will. (Even One is not that petty as to hand her a death sentence just because she believed Three, who was innocent, she wasn't wrong about that, over him - especially since her nanite-fueled powers are their best chance of all getting out. Two wouldn't just leave her crew behind.)

 

On a tangent, I guess that's one way for Six to pull back together with the rest of the crew - they all have a death sentence over their heads on account of knowing what Two is. Six may have cut a deal with the GA for turning the rest of the crew in, but that's not going to save him from the people who created Two. Sending assassins after him may force him to work together with the crew, because Six on his own is a sitting duck.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Black Knight

[Shanna Marie]

There are points to be made either way on whether One or Six was the planned target of Two and Four. For One, he is an impostor, and there's no way this guy could have successfully impersonated Jace Corso for more than about fifteen minutes. If the plan was to have the Android take him out, he may have been set to wake first, then be killed before the rest of the crew woke, and Two and Four had an alibi. For Six, his reputation was more as a terrorist than a criminal, and he might have said something that made it sound like he wouldn't be down with the mission they were on. Him waking last would mean the others could ambush him while he was still waking or sabotage his stasis chamber. Though it would have made more sense for One and Five to come after him, in that case. You wouldn't want those two awake while someone else was being murdered.

 

Or the waking times were completely random and had to do with body chemistry, etc. But then I'd have thought Two would have been awake first.

[tennisgurl]

 

Is there any interest in a 'season as a whole' thread?

I am totally behind that! I am also interested in a speculation thread. Not spoilers, just wondering what will happen next. I have no idea where next season is going to go, but I would like to discuss it without the danger of going off topic here. 

[sjohnson]

Recording DNA samples is becoming routine for criminals now. 

 

As to why DNA testing should reveal something peculiar about Lin, the presence of various forms of junk DNA (transposons, pseudogenes, gene fragments, viral intrusions) would interfere with engineering precisely what they want. At this point, it seems that most DNA sequences are transcribed, but most of the resulting RNAs are apparently suppressed by microRNAs. These non-coding RNAs are a very complex system. Suppressing as much junk DNA as possible would tremendously simplify the engineering. And to be more speculative, engineering a superior biological form could involve adding more gene sequences, both protein coding and regulatory. 

 

Medical testing for various diseases on organisms introduced into a new population is a useful tool for population management. You might test a cow of unknown background for "mad cow disease" before putting it into the herd. If a great deal of advanced medical testing isn't cheaply automated in an advanced society, I would posit that it is an alien one where the members have less interest in personal health.

[Hanahope]

For One, he is an impostor, and there's no way this guy could have successfully impersonated Jace Corso for more than about fifteen minutes. If the plan was to have the Android take him out, he may have been set to wake first, then be killed before the rest of the crew woke, and Two and Four had an alibi. For Six, his reputation was more as a terrorist than a criminal, and he might have said something that made it sound like he wouldn't be down with the mission they were on.

 

I was under the impression that the mission to the mining colony was the first mission "Corso"/One was on with the crew.  When the real Corso asked about the Raza and found them, it sounded like he was supposed to have been meeting them for the first time when he got ambushed and One took his place.  So, at least in some respects, since the rest of the Raza crew didn't know Corso, he could have 'impersonated' Corso for quite some time.  I'm also presuming that One, at least in his original personality, knew full well who the real Corso was and what he was like, in general, and was completely on board with pretending to be him, in all respects, at least as long as he had to.  Maybe he originally planned to kill 3 at the mining colongy and escape there (or blame it on the colonists).

 

I'm guessing that what Five tried to do was a selective erasure of memory.  She found out that Two and Four learned something about someone that probably voted for her to stay on the ship, i.e. One or Six, either that One was an impostor or that Six was an undercover GA agent, and she tried to just erase 1 or 2 days worth of memories, but ended up erasing everything.  I'm guessing the secret was about Six, because even if they learned One was an impostor (and I don't think they did or we would have heard three in on the convo), you'd think they'd question him first.  Also, given that Six was the biggest, it would make sense to reprogram Android to kill him.  So I think Six was a deep cover agent, who then learned about his cover when he did his back-ground check/clone thing.

 

But I agree that somehow he'll end up getting back together with them either when Evil Wil comes after all of them, including him, or when the GA says they will kill all of the Raza crew, even those that are semi-innocent (One and Five).

[Chicago Redshirt]

The notion of real One impersonating Jake Corso, galactic badass, is like Bill Gates having surgery to pretend to be Charles Manson, if you'll forgive the analogy. No much you study the person's background, you're bound to slip up on the numerous details -- their mannerisms, their instincts, the things only known to them and a select few. 

[Shanna Marie]

The notion of real One impersonating Jake Corso, galactic badass, is like Bill Gates having surgery to pretend to be Charles Manson, if you'll forgive the analogy. No much you study the person's background, you're bound to slip up on the numerous details -- their mannerisms, their instincts, the things only known to them and a select few.

Yeah, that's what I meant about him not being able to pull it off. Even if they never met the real Corso, One/Derek couldn't sustain that level of faking badassery to match Corso's reputation for very long. Heck, the way he was arguing for not killing Five was probably enough to give him away. Then they just had to do a little more digging on Corso, maybe find out that he had been seen elsewhere while he was supposedly on their ship, and they'd have known something was up.

 

But we're also missing a lot of information, so maybe the killing plan had more to do with one of them being opposed to fighting against the miners. One did find that pendant from the resistance group. Was one of them a member or sympathizer? (Probably Six). Or had they killed the guy sent to get help?

 

I think if the waking order had anything to do with the killing plans, then the target was One. If they planned to kill Six, then Two and Four would have been awakened first, then they could have just sabotaged Six's unit while he was still out, then One, Three, and Five could have been awakened. And oh, no! Something awful happened with the stasis unit! Though you have to wonder why the "accident" didn't happen before stasis. As leader, Two might have been the last one to go into stasis, so she could have had all the others go in, sabotage Six's unit or flat-out kill him and space him, then not have to worry about what might happen when they woke up. Procrastination ruins so many plans.

[cynic]

 

Oh, geez, please NOT a One/Two/Three triangle, show. I hate triangles.

I hate 'em too, but throwing Three into the mix might be the only thing that makes this "romance" tolerable. One's dead in the water as any kind of romantic lead, and at least Three has that whole bad boy/asshole thing going on.

 

It would have been preferable if they had not gone with the expected male and female lead hookup, but had waited a season or a season and a half to see not only who Melissa O'Neil had the best chemistry with, but which character meshed with her's in the actual course of the show, because it's just not One.

Ugh, I don't want a triangle either, but you're right. Having Three in the mix is at least more interesting than a straight up romance between One and Two, because One is effin' awful and has zero chemistry with Two. I actually would have been okay if they had not included One at all and did a slow burn between Two and Three based on them developing increasing respect and trust for each other, instead of the typical romance. Both Two and Three are practical and blunt. It would be unlikely that a relationship between them would devolve into shmoopy BS. A true adult partnership between them, where they're both independent and trust each other's judgement, while still being able to disagree would have been refreshing. 

[venturestar]

 

a slow burn between Two and Three based on them developing increasing respect and trust for each other, instead of the typical romance

 

This. Three was my most annoying character at season start, but he evolved nicely. Now Three is a lot of fun to watch and he and Two have some real chemistry. Especially when they shared a smile over the table in this past episode.

 

One was bland at the beginning and is still bland. He has no chemistry with Two. I was kind of hoping One would get killed off and the real Jace Corso would become part of the cast. At least it would shake things up.

[Ottis]

I like the show, and want it to be back, but I wish the season ender would have had less to do with who the crew used to be and more about deciding how to deal with something new as a team (would they be better than they were? would they need the dark skills of who they used to be? would the new challenge force them to be something new?). Spending 1.5  episodes basically guessing who was a traitor wasn't very interesting. Any one of them *could* be, for reasons we might not yet even understand, given it is season one and we are still learning about the characters. So it is six, whatever.

 

The constant ship-searching was especially annoying. After a couple of those scenes, I just FF'd through them.