Social Media and Behind the Scenes: AKA Everything Else Not "News and Media"

[HighHopes]

Amell, like MG and everyone else involved in the show needs to know when to stop talking. Warning: No idea if there are spoilers, watched a bit but I couldn't watch all of it.. 

https://www.facebook.com/stephenamell/videos/1207298466022085/

(posting it as a link because I know we have to post Tweets as links, and I'm not sure if this counts?) 

[Sunshine]

Probably easier if we just tune them out.  As long as people are listening they are going to keep talking.  Apathy.

No spoilers in video.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Sunshine

[Morrigan2575]

I agree with SA, I think he was right on Sunday and, he's right in that Facebook video (speech part, I didn't bother with the Q&A).

As far as I'm concerned there is only one contract between the show and the fans. If the show is something you like, you watch it. If the show is something you don't like, don't watch it. There is no co-ownership, it's a simple matter of product/payment (payment being viewing).

Edited November 22, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I agree with SA, I think he was right on Sunday and, he's right in that Facebook video (speech part, I didn't bother with the Q&A).

And I think - if you're someone who had an issue with what he said on Sunday - he came off way better in this than he did then.

[dtissagirl]

Why does he always sound like a serial killer when he says he's relaxed/chill/not mad. It's uncanny.

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

Why does he always sound like a serial killer when he says he's relaxed/chill/not mad. It's uncanny.

[Morrigan2575]

10 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

Why does he always sound like a serial killer when he says he's relaxed/chill/not mad. It's uncanny.

He did play Joran Van Der Sloot...

[EmilyBettFan]

32 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

Why does he always sound like a serial killer when he says he's relaxed/chill/not mad. It's uncanny.

 

18 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

He did play Joran Van Der Sloot...

LOL basically was going to say this. 

[Cleanqueen]

You know who needs to make live facebook videos, the writers. They're the ones all this criticism is directed at, but because people have access to Stephen(who's paid to sell what these writers concoct) is getting yelled at and dragged left and right. I commend him for being accessible, but this access sadly comes with a lot of unnecessary privilege from certain fans.

[EmilyBettFan]

Yeah but he doesn't have to do live videos. 

[LeighAn]

8 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I agree with SA, I think he was right on Sunday and, he's right in that Facebook video (speech part, I didn't bother with the Q&A).

As far as I'm concerned there is only one contract between the show and the fans. If the show is something you like, you watch it. If the show is something you don't like, don't watch it. There is no co-ownership, it's a simple matter of product/payment (payment being viewing).

It's about tone not content. There were about a hundred different ways he could have answered that question with a similar message with out being condescending and inviting the audience to ridicule and jeer at the poor girl asking a reasonable question and could have avoided then doubling  down on that tone by again being condescending and mansplaining television for all those silly shippers (re:women) who he seems to think don't understand tv. He deserves no pats on the back for being an ass to fans of the show because he can't handle reasonable criticism.

Edited November 22, 2016 by LeighAn

[Midnight Lullaby]

I felt bad for the woman asking the question because it isn't easy to go up in front of a crowd and ask questions that aren't "what's your favorite stunt?", "what's your favorite superhero?" and I think he could have answered it better. We all know it's just a tv show but when fans of that tv show give you money at cons, for your wine business and whatever you are selling these days you can make an effort and not be dismissive if they have questions. It doesn't seem that hard to me. And it doesn't mean saying "you are right" because thinking "S5 is the best ever" is a legitimate opinion but thinking it isn't is a legitimate opinion as well, but "it's just a tv show" apparently applies only when it's time to silence criticism.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[emarasmoak]

10 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

As far as I'm concerned there is only one contract between the show and the fans.

 

1 hour ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

We all know it's just a tv show but when fans of that tv show gives you money at cons, for your wine business and whatever you are selling those days you can make an effort and not be dismissive if they have questions.

2 hours ago, LeighAn said:

It's about tone not content. There were about a hundred different ways he could have answered that question with a similar message with out being condescending and inviting the audience to ridicule and jeer

 

Well, in the case of cons there is another contract between tv show actors and the attendees. They have paid A LOT of money to be there. The least that they deserve is not being treated in a condescending way, inviting the audience to cheer and clap to make her feel that hers was not a valid opinion.

In this case, it doesn't matter to me if he is wrong or right. It is about the tone.

I was considering to attend to the next con with SA in England. I will give it a pass #hedoesnotdeservemymoney

Edited November 22, 2016 by emarasmoak

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, LeighAn said:

It's about tone not content. There were about a hundred different ways he could have answered that question with a similar message with out being condescending and inviting the audience to ridicule and jeer at the poor girl asking a reasonable question and could have avoided then doubling  down on that tone by again being condescending and mansplaining television for all those silly shippers (re:women) who he seems to think don't understand tv. He deserves no pats on the back for being an ass to fans of the show because he can't handle reasonable criticism.

Because her tone was so great? Her question was so polite? IMO her question was antagonistic and entitled. I'm an Olicity fan, we're the most passionate fans eva! Why should we be passionate about Arrow when we're not getting what we want? (Paraphrased but, let's be honest that was the real point of her question)

Maybe you don't see it because you agree with her. I don't know but, I've attended enough Cons in my time to recognize her question for what it was (confrontational, antagonistic, venting her anger/unhappiness in the form of a question). SA certainly could have toned his exasperation down but, she could have worded her "question" better, IMO.

Quote

inviting the audience to ridicule and jeer at the poor girl asking a reasonable question

Did you ever think the other fans at the panel might have found her attitude and question off putting and that's why they cheered the answer? Again, as someone who's attended several cons in my time. Con goers do not take self serving questions well and, will self moderate. I was following the #HFVV Atlanta hash tag on Twitter during this panel and, I saw a couple of tweets where attendees felt uncomfortable with the tone of her question and the one before it.

So yeah, SA definitely could have toned down the exasperation (which he even said in his Facebook video) but, IMO if you're going to get up there and ask a question that's more venting your unhappiness then actually asking a question you should be prepared for the backlash from the fans and the talent.

I gather from your post that we will never agree on this because I certainly don't see a "poor girl asking a reasonable question" being attacked by the mean man and his fans.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[emarasmoak]

@Morrigan2575, I understand your point. I do not completely agree with it but I see the rationale. Maybe you are right and I am biased because I also feel disappointed with the show and the Olicity situation.

I also think that is a valid choice for a fan to stop being passionate if they don't get what they want. They can choose to stop watching, but they also can choose to be vocal about what they don't like or would want. Other people can also choose to react to other people's opinions. I basically think that everyone can make their choices and give their opinions as long as they are respectful. I however would expect that a professional that is doing their job handles criticism in a professional way (in this case SA is an actor that is being paid to promote his show and engage with con attendees).

My last comment on this is that in my line of work I sometimes are approached by people that are rude and unpolite, which by the way I consider to be wrong and most times unacceptable. However, I have always considered that part of my job is being professional and polite to everyone. I am not sure that SA (and some writers/ producers from Arrow in social media) are always professional and polite. I don't think that being dismissive is a helpful way to deal with criticism, particularly while responding answers from people that has paid a lot of money to be there and be able to make questions (even if someone could prefer opinions to be expressed in a different way). I definitely would have big problems in my job if I were dismissive of people expressing complaints or concerns about our work, even if they are rude.

I understand that you may not agree. That is fine, we can agree to disagree and move on.

ETA: my point is more about SA handling of fan criticism that about fans themselves, but I realize that mods may consider this to be fan talk. If this is the case, sorry!, and please delete as necessary

Edited November 22, 2016 by emarasmoak

[Cleanqueen]

I think If people knew who the girl asking the questions was, I think we can see how some might have felt that her tone was a bit confrontational. This isnt the first time that fans might have disagreed with her approach to things. 

I agreed with her questions and just like I didn't agree with Stephen's tone through out, I didn't agree with her delivery method as well.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Cleanqueen

[Chaser]

After hearing the question, I'm just going to sit here and agree with both opinions. I do think the question got his back up and some of the audiences as well. The tone wasn't the most....inviting. That being said, I think it's a fair sentiment.  The show has been feeding these fans for four years, both in narrative and behind the scenes. Suddenly it's season 5 and it's 'just a tv show'. That doesn't sit right with me. Now SA, his response was reactionary in the worst way. He was aware of the problems and should have handled it better. His sound bite response was insulting. He could have done so much better, because I don't disagree with some sentiments there either. I'm a firm believer in never hate watching. You can't control the show so when you stop enjoying, you move on.

Honestly, I think the fandom would be so much happier if they accepted that SA is a company man who doesn't handle criticism and stop trying to get a certain response from him. They aren't going to get it. He is going to say this is totes the best season ever until next season, which is when he will admit things could have been done better. He is going to continue to disagree with anyone who has a problem with anything and he will thank anyone who lavishes praise (even if it insults others). 

[Cleanqueen]

3 minutes ago, Chaser said:

 

Honestly, I think the fandom would be so much happier if they accepted that SA is a company man who doesn't handle criticism and stop trying to get a certain response from him. They aren't going to get it. He is going to say this is totes the best season ever until next season, which is when he will admit things could have been done better. He is going to continue to disagree with anyone who has a problem with anything and he will thank anyone who lavishes praise (even if it insults others). 

all of this but esp the highlighted parts. I will enjoy the good things he gives us and disregard the other crap. That really is the only way I can control my own feelings. Take the good and leave the rest.

[looptab]

24 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I'm just going to sit here and agree with both opinions.

I'll join you. I do agree that he didn't handle it well, but at the same time, what kind of answer were people expecting? The question could have been worded better.

@Cleanqueen, who was she?

Edited November 22, 2016 by looptab

[Cleanqueen]

23 minutes ago, looptab said:

I'll join you. I do agree that he didn't handle it well, but at the same time, what kind of answer were people expecting? The question could have been worded better.

@Cleanqueen, who was she?

From what I saw on twitter it was stilettoroyalty asking the question. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

2 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

From what I saw on twitter it was stilettoroyalty asking the question. 

No, it was a girl called Liz..I don't know her but from what I read she asked something people asked her to ask him..

[Cleanqueen]

7 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

No, it was a girl called Liz..I don't know her but from what I read she asked something people asked her to ask him..

I am referring to the 2 part question...I believe I saw some tweets that said it was her.

[Guest]

I'm only just catching up on this but I have to agree with both sides. I thought the question and the tone in which it was asked was yikes. Just...don't be like that. I'm not surprised SA was both defensive and dismissive in his answer. That being said, that person paid a lot of money to be at the con so I do feel she should be able to ask whatever she wants. It just should have been worded and voiced better.

I also agree with @Chaser. SA loves praise no matter where it comes from and as much as he professes otherwise, he really doesn't handle criticism well, even if it's legitimate. So fandom needs to just accept this and move on, especially as O/F fans are not going to hear what they need/want right now. It is what it is.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Midnight Lullaby]

52 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

I am referring to the 2 part question...I believe I saw some tweets that said it was her.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[Cleanqueen]

9 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

It's her..

My bad..I think they were together so maybe ppl confused them. I just read this, so I am not sure which one is correct.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Cleanqueen

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, Angel12d said:

I'm only just catching up on this but I have to agree with both sides. I thought the question and the tone in which it was asked was yikes. Just...don't be like that. I'm not surprised SA was both defensive and dismissive in his answer. That being said, that person paid a lot of money to be at the con so I do feel she should be able to ask whatever she wants. It just should have been worded and voiced better.

I also agree with @Chaser. SA loves praise no matter where it comes from and as much as he professes otherwise, he really doesn't handle criticism well, even if it's legitimate. So fandom needs to just accept this and move on, especially as O/F fans are not going to hear what they need/want right now. It is what it is.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I honestly don't understand what people are hoping to hear from him. In season 2 Stephen was hell bent on telling fans that they're not writing for Olicity. Season 3 he hardly ever gave fans hope in panels, he always gave hope one on one (eg. It's always darkest before the dawn, remember 320). Season 4 all he did was toe the company line at sdcc about how domesticated Oliver is then after they broke up he even defended the mama drama of all things and other than that defended the romance aspect of it all in episode 16 even though the romance aspect of the show was dragging. And after that remained mum on all aspects of romance afterward. 

So I don't get what people want with him. He's not going to be reassuring when the narrative on screen isn't yet. He's not going to spoil what happens nor will he ever go against the season he's working on, especially on stage. If he defended mama drama by calling it his favorite aspect of the season he'll defend all the stupidity of season 5 because the network wants that. And to be honest, that's a good move. No one should pull a Katherine Heigl. 

In fact what proves this whole Stephen on stage vs one-to-one is just in the autograph line a few minutes after the panel he told a fan who asked him for olicity hope to just trust him with a knowing smile.

[Midnight Lullaby]

7 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

My bad..I think they were together so maybe ppl confused them. I just read this, so I am not sure which one is correct.

Maybe she asked another question? I honestly don't know..

[Sunshine]

My question is what is he disagreeing with - the idea that relationships are important to Oliver's growth, the idea that core characters are being sidelined, or both?

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

My question is what is he disagreeing with - the idea that relationships are important to Oliver's growth, the idea that core characters are being sidelined, or both?

Maybe he's disagreeing that the characters aren't growing or learning while apart? 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I honestly don't understand what people are hoping to hear from him. In season 2 Stephen was hell bent on telling fans that they're not writing for Olicity. Season 3 he hardly ever gave fans hope in panels, he always gave hope one on one (eg. It's always darkest before the dawn, remember 320). Season 4 all he did was toe the company line at sdcc about how domesticated Oliver is then after they broke up he even defended the mama drama of all things and other than that defended the romance aspect of it all in episode 16 even though the romance aspect of the show was dragging. And after that remained mum on all aspects of romance afterward. 

So I don't get what people want with him. He's not going to be reassuring when the narrative on screen isn't yet. He's not going to spoil what happens nor will he ever go against the season he's working on, especially on stage. If he defended mama drama by calling it his favorite aspect of the season he'll defend all the stupidity of season 5 because the network wants that. And to be honest, that's a good move. No one should pull a Katherine Heigl. 

In fact what proves this whole Stephen on stage vs one-to-one is just in the autograph line a few minutes after the panel he told a fan who asked him for olicity hope to just trust him with a knowing smile.

I'm not sure either. I think maybe some fans are desperate and searching for hope wherever they can find it. And SA is usually pro-Olicity so maybe they thought he'd give them something? But yeah, I totally agree. SA toes the party line and sells what's on screen at the moment so IDK what they expected tbh. I especially don't know what they expected with a question/tone like that. Yikes. I'm still cringing.

[wonderwall]

10 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

My question is what is he disagreeing with - the idea that relationships are important to Oliver's growth, the idea that core characters are being sidelined, or both?

Again, it's likely he doesn't disagree at all, he just isn't going to agree with whatever the criticism is because Stephen's the kind of guy to defend whatever the bullshit of the season is. Maybe that's why his response was so flimsy. Or maybe he didn't read everything. 

2 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I'm not sure either. I think maybe some fans are desperate and searching for hope wherever they can find it. And SA is usually pro-Olicity so maybe they thought he'd give them something? But yeah, I totally agree. SA toes the party line and sells what's on screen at the moment so IDK what they expected tbh. I especially don't know what they expected with a question/tone like that. Yikes. I'm still cringing

Edited November 22, 2016 by wonderwall

[Midnight Lullaby]

Or maybe he is disagreeing about his answer being dismissive..because if he thought they are growing while with other people why not answering like that at the panel?

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Or maybe he is disagreeing about his answer being dismissive..because if he thought they are growing while with other people why not answering like that at the panel?

I thought it might be that since it was the last part of her message. 

[wonderwall]

@Angel12d I agree. I get that Stephen could've been more professional, and shouldn't have snapped. But damn, you can't be rude and then be shocked that the person you're being rude to bit back. Sorry, but even I don't react well when someone throws an attitude at me. 

I'm not a fan of defending Stephen because he is boneheaded most of the time. But with the unrealistic expectations people have regarding him as well as how vicious the response was to his response, I kind of felt the need to. Sorry, I won't fault Stephen completely for this. Because it was partially the fault of the girl who asked the question. One wouldn't have happened without the other. If the girl was polite I doubt Stephen would've been harsh in his tone. 

[Bort]

People, please heed the note at the top of the forum and do not embed Tweets. 

[dtissagirl]

I don't think he's disagreeing with anything in particular. It's just a super polite way to reply to a critical comment, without delving into counter-arguments or explanations.

[doesntworkonwood]

I think my biggest problem is that I think that there are actually multiple ways that he could have answered the original question. Yes the tone of the person was harsh, but it was a fairly easy question to divert without alienating people. He could have spoke about how Oliver's relationship with Susan was good for Oliver, or how Felicity's relationship with DTH is good for Felicity. He could have spoke about how they're working together (and he did at the end, he could have just skipped the first bit of his answer). He didn't have to go straight to 'you can't always get what you want' (which is a dumb statement because we're talking about something people voluntarily watch) and 'she could be dead'. 

I understand it's his job to go with whatever line they're marketing right now, which is why I'm usually very dismissive of his answers about the show. But his answer wasn't about the show, his answer was about the fans. When you're talking about actual people, that requires a bit more diplomacy. 

[emarasmoak]

11 minutes ago, doesntworkonwood said:

But his answer wasn't about the show, his answer was about the fans. When you're talking about actual people, that requires a bit more diplomacy. 

This ^^^

SA was doing fan talk LOL

[Chaser]

Basically, the CW needs to arrange a social media seminar for their casts. Maybe the Supernatural Boys can teach the program.

[Cleanqueen]

Is this the longest thread of comments from Stephen regarding one incident...and olicity fans think he doesn't care. I've only seen Stephen go this hard when ocility fans criticize him unlike the countless other times comic stans did. 

[statsgirl]

3 hours ago, wonderwall said:

I honestly don't understand what people are hoping to hear from him.

In my experience, people (the audience in this case) often just want to be heard.   It's been a bad season not just for Olicity fans but Felicity fans and Thea fans.  It feels like everyone who isn't watching this show for Masks! Men! Fight!  is being pushed aside to appeal to those comic book fans who watch on the level of the old Batman show, that as long as there are lots of comics characters and lots of fights and little characterization, they will cheer all the louder.  And the EPs appear to be completely deaf to people being upset other than tweets from BFS justifying what they're doing or Ben Sokolowski telling people to chill out.

MG or WM acknowledging the problem would help a lot, the way Greg Berlanti did when there was a uproar at the TCA tour and the old fight club video about the lack of women and non-masks.   It never occurred to them that the lack of Olicity + a bunch of new characters s5 would be a problem for a large part of the audience.  Not to mention changing baby Sara into JJ -- it's like s3 when Felicity told Laurel that she had a light in her that Sara didn't and the uproar took them completely by surprise.

This is really an EP problem but they're not available and SA is and he's getting all the flack.

20 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

 I've only seen Stephen go this hard when ocility fans criticize him unlike the countless other times comic stans did. 

Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but I don't think SA is all that keen on 4B and this season but it's his job to promote the show. I get the impression that he agrees it's been better but there's nothing he can do about it and that's why he gets so snippy.

[TwistedandBored]

I have never needed the cast and crew of a show to tell me what I can or cannot watch/ship. If something stops being entertaining, I stop watching it. So, this whole thing has been like watching a car wreck. 

Also, this is like the storm before the silence. Most of these fans will be vocal for a while and then they will give up on the show completely. It started to happen and it won't be long before the rest stop caring. 

[lemotomato]

55 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

Is this the longest thread of comments from Stephen regarding one incident...and olicity fans think he doesn't care. I've only seen Stephen go this hard when ocility fans criticize him unlike the countless other times comic stans did. 

Maybe Stephen should just ignore them, like he told me to just ignore being called names when things got really bad and I asked for some moderation of his page a couple months ago. 

I don't agree with all the criticism thrown at him in his notes, but for him to address the negativity on his page only now when it's been almost as much of a cesspool as the network's Arrow page and the only thing that's changed is which section of fans is complaining, rubs me the wrong way. 

Edited November 22, 2016 by lemotomato

[looptab]

Quote

Furthermore, I'd encourage everyone to make the distinction between the person I play on television and the guy writing this when you're framing your remarks. Lastly, and this is crucial, there's too much positivity in this space to have it drowned out with any one message. Especially when a number of those messages can't distinguish the line between my personal and professional life.

I have to wonder why he felt the need to write this. What's going on? Haha.

[Cleanqueen]

5 minutes ago, looptab said:

I have to wonder why he felt the need to write this. What's going on? Haha.

I saw a tweet about a post on his page, someone called him a Pathological liar. No clue why.

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, looptab said:

I have to wonder why he felt the need to write this. What's going on? Haha.

That line about distinguishing personal/professional life - I think it was mostly about how people attacked him personally calling him a pathological liar, mentally deranged, has his ego bruised... People were just extremely nasty towards him. And you know what? Stephen's right. It's JUST a TV show, you can't justify viciousness like that. 

[Cleanqueen]

16 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

 

I don't agree with all the criticism thrown at him in his notes, but for him to address the negativity on his page only now when the only thing that's changed is which section of fans is complaining, rubs me the wrong way. 

I don't think this is the first time, he's said the same thing last year too and made a specific video regarding it. He said this is a place of positivity and negativity should be avoided.

[looptab]

Thanks. Wow, I had no idea - I never read the posts on his page except when I see them somewhere else.

Edited November 22, 2016 by looptab

[dtissagirl]

Hahahahalololol white bro is melting. *popcorn.gif*

I really love the part about him not understanding what's happening, because I totally believe he truly cannot grasp what is it like to be a woman in a 50-50 split gendered fandom in an age of no-consequences in social media spaces.

 

9 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Maybe Stephen should just ignore them, like he told me to just ignore being called names when things got really bad and I asked for some moderation of his page a couple months ago.

How shitty of him. I'm sorry. That's such BAD advice. The only way to make any online forum into a safe space is through moderation. If he doesn't wanna do the work to keep his space safe, that is on him, not on you.

[Velocity23]

WarnersBrosTV promoting SPN and Arrow on TNT

https://twitter.com/warnerbrostv/status/801126281412636672