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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Social Media and Behind the Scenes: AKA Everything Else Not "News and Media"

Zalyn

By Zalyn
in Arrow

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dtissagirl
dtissagirl

What bugs me is the implication that if you are not patient, you're watching it wrong. Naw, son. You don't get to tell me how I watch TV. I'm an actual pro at doing it.

WindofChange
WindofChange

Oh wow, Emily. I'm impressed because this is really brave and I'm really proud that she said this in such an eloquent way.

dtissagirl
dtissagirl

Ha. Reading those stage directions, and realizing how EBR went the opposite way [curious and skeptic rather than faint by hot guy] makes me understand 100% how fucking lost they were at that time, and

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)
Quote

 "I believe all shows should evolve and change. Particularly in their 5th season."

This is what bothers me the most actually.  Because I don't think he understands the need to preserve what made people love the show, particularly in the later seasons.  Doesn't mean a show is stagnant but changing for the sake of change pleases no one.  

Edited by BkWurm1
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)
7 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I'm sorry but is he saying fans don't have impact on ratings?

Guys, does he not know who TV works? 

I get that he thinks that fandom in general is super invested and super reactive to certain storylines, so just because a bunch of shippers or stans get riled up doesn't mean that it's going to affect ratings. Maybe it won't! But fatigue about the stuff that bothers fandom could very well bleed into the general viewership. Which he should know by now, given the state of things. 

Edited by apinknightmare
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calliope1975

calliope1975

3 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I'm sorry but is he saying fans don't have impact on ratings?

Guys, does he not know who TV works? 

He has to see that the ratings have gone down from last year. That could be for a hundred different reasons, but even this dumbass has to comprehend that people have stopped watching if the numbers declined. Ya'll, I beyond suck at anything related to math and even I understand this basic fact. Something they are doing isn't working anymore. Maybe spend less time bitching about shippers on Twitter and figure that out. Or continue to stand by your belief that your show is amazeballs as is. Either way, unless this is his kink, which it very well might be, he's not helping his show here. He's already turned me off from following any of his past or future work.

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Sunshine

Sunshine

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

I'm sorry but is he saying fans don't have impact on ratings?

Guys, does he not know who TV works? 

Honestly, I think he's saying shippers' don't impact ratings anymore than comic book fans do.  Casual  viewers do.  They are the largest fan base.  

 

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

This is what bothers me the most actually.  Because I don't think he understands the need to double down on what made people love the show, particularly in the later seasons.  Doesn't mean a show is stagnant but changing for the sake of change pleases no one.  

I think that's what they don't get.  They basically took everything people invested in and said it's not important anymore.  There is a difference in evolving the show and completely rebooting the show.      

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I get that he thinks that fandom in general is super invested and super reactive to certain storylines, so just because a bunch of shippers or stans get riled up doesn't mean that it's going to affect ratings. Maybe it won't! But fatigue about the stuff that bothers fandom could very well bleed into the general viewership. Which he should know by now, given the state of things. 

Except he claims he hasn't looked at any of his notifications (I assume he meant tumblr?) in months.  I really wonder if he and his people are in a total bubble, not really getting at all what people are upset about.  

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tangerine95

tangerine95

It seems to me like MG thinks casual viewers aren't that invested in the romance storyline which makes no sense to me since so much of the time the romance on shows tends to be the most talked about thing and most remembered after a show is done plus the fact that big romantic moments are regularly used for sweeps episodes.I think he's basically bitter about his storylines not being received like he expected and trying to blame it on the fans.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)
5 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Except he claims he hasn't looked at any of his notifications (I assume he meant tumblr?) in months.  I really wonder if he and his people are in a total bubble, not really getting at all what people are upset about.  

By "given the state of things" I meant that ratings took a pretty big dive after 4x15 (an episode that was the culmination of a couple of storylines that fandom HATED) and the show never got those people back - and they spent all hiatus selling something that didn't help them - not any fandom turmoil he would've had to look at his mentions to find out about.

Edited by apinknightmare
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Chaser

Chaser

16 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I can imagine Guggie actually yelling at his mentions.

YOU DON'T CONTROL MY STORIES!
YOU DON'T CONTROL MY RATINGS!
ORGANIC! ORGANIC!

I can totally see him muttering that to himself as he answered his Tumblr asks a few weeks ago.

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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

(edited)
11 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

I think that's what they don't get.  They basically took everything people invested in and said it's not important anymore.  There is a difference in evolving the show and completely rebooting the show.      

^^^This.  I'm not sure where exactly they got the idea that rebooting the show was so important.  Maybe in S2 but S5?  At that point your audience is pretty well established.  After spending 4 years growing to love the characters and their journeys they probably aren't going to be excited to see massive character regression, time-traveling erasures of plotlines/characters, retreads of prior seasons, and a bunch of new people sucking the screentime away from the characters in whom they've spent years investing their viewership.  MG clearly doesn't understand the nuance.

Edited by NumberCruncher
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kismet

kismet

(edited)
6 hours ago, quarks said:

I'm with the CW and Amell on this one - there's no point in throwing promo money/time for tonight's Arrow. Throw it at Legends of Tomorrow instead, which if staying steady could still stand improvement, and which isn't going up against a potentially historic Cubs game. Or very excited Cleveland fans who have all reminded me that they haven't won for decades either.  Arrow can easily explain away tonight's numbers. It's next week that sweeps will get important for Arrow again. 

^from ratings section^

Agree with you. Which is why MG's tantrum tweet was just so unnecessary. No need to link ratings, shippers and historic Game 7 together in one tweet. It was neither the time or the place. To me it just speaks to a deep rooted insecurity, juvenility or stupidity.  It's probably a combination of all 3.

As a good counterbalance, I've been watching the CMA awards. Multiple artists have thanked me and other fans for our support. Every Artist has thanked the history and the legacy of Country Music through the years. That's how you treat fans. Presenters have also been nice enough to give the audience in-show score updates on the Historic Baseball Game. Sometimes you can't move a showdate but you can respect another event's significance and people's interests in multiple things. It reminds me of when Boston was in a big playoff game and I have tickets to West Side Story. They made sure to give us updates both at intermission and the end. There should be a basic level of mutual respect and decency.

At the end of the day, MG should be trying to turn the hate to love. He shouldn't be trying to lick his wounded pride by throwing it back in the fans' faces. There is no need to contribute to the negative narrative. I realize criticism must hurt his feelings, but there are more productive ways for both his mental health and the success of his show than to just lash out. Criticism is part of life in every profession and endeavor.

Lastly - just tuned into the game HOLY CANNOLI!! I can't imagine being an Indians or a Cubs fan right now. How are you even able to breath right now? They weren't kidding when they said a historic game - tied in the 9th inning. This is a movie waiting to be filmed.

Edited by kismet
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

13 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Oscar Balderrama is now getting into it with fans on Twitter. I don't think the writers got this defensive even when they were dealing with the aftermath of LL getting killed off.

Is he the writer from tonight's episode?  

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Balderrama is really hung up on the word disrespect, isn't he?

We should flashmob him some Aretha Franklin gifs for lol.

I also find it hilariously sad that a bunch of ladies are tweeting him, and he's only talking to the one dude.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)
2 minutes ago, kismet said:

Maybe the writers misunderstood their social media assignments tonight. Perhaps they thought they had to be Human Targets :)

"Hey look over here!  Leave MG alone, I'm the asshat!"

Hmm, maybe.

Edited by BkWurm1
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Guest

Guest

The writers getting defensive probably just means deep down they know they suck. LOL. Or they're annoyed that fans aren't just accepting any old crap they throw at us anymore. Because seriously, if you have to argue for or defend your choices on twitter, you're doing writing wrong.

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MariaHill

MariaHill

2 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

I'm sure I'm just forgetting some, but I can't think of any other showrunners who are outright insulting fans. That's what I don't understand - just ignore us. I know CW made MG get a Twitter account, but he has the ability to tweet and then close the app. He doesn't have to read his mentions. He seems like a thin-skinned, narcissist who's also a terrible writer. So, the majority of Hollywood in a nutshell. 

Sleepy Hollow show runners were 200% horrible to Ichabod/Abbie shippers on social media while they sidelined Abbie for an entire season so yes, have definitely seen this before. 

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calliope1975

calliope1975

1 minute ago, MariaHill said:

Sleepy Hollow show runners were 200% horrible to Ichabod/Abbie shippers on social media while they sidelined Abbie for an entire season so yes, have definitely seen this before. 

Yeah, I've realized from reading this thread I've been in a bubble regarding showrunners. I guess I just never followed them or sought out their opinion on viewers even when I remember hating them (AlMiles, I'm looking at you from my Smallville days.) Apparently, being petty garbage people to fans isn't anything new. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

1 minute ago, calliope1975 said:

Yeah, I've realized from reading this thread I've been in a bubble regarding showrunners. I guess I just never followed them or sought out their opinion on viewers even when I remember hating them (AlMiles, I'm looking at you from my Smallville days.) Apparently, being petty garbage people to fans isn't anything new. 

I think the show runners having the chance to be dicks directly to fans rather than just give bad interviews is a newer thing comparatively.  

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Sunshine

Sunshine

What a night...1st SA's FB live - Someone asked him if Olicity was over.  He said no, not that he was aware of.  Then proceeded to talk about Olicity being a thing (working together) before it was ever a relationship.  (I didn't watch but I saw this several places.) 2nd-MG's tweet 2 minutes into the show. 3rd - Oscar Balderrama's discussion .  Add this to some already dreading/being nervous about the episode and it's like adding fuel to the fire.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

Although that wasn't directly at a fan, I still remember Brad Wright taking Maureen Ryan to task over her negative review of Stargate Universe, in the comments section. :)  And Joe Mallozzi's Q&A sessions on his blog used to get a little interesting.  So none of this surprises me at all.

Edited by Starfish35
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

2 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

3rd - Oscar Balderrama's discussion .  Add this to some already dreading/being nervous about the episode and it's like adding fuel to the fire.

Anyone have a link or a recap of what he was saying?

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calliope1975

calliope1975

SA needs to stop with this party line of Olicity being just friends/coworkers. That's not what "Olicity" means, and he knows that. Makes me want to punch him in his pretty face. Thanks, bitterness, for making me violent. Yeah, it seems like whatever mojo is in the air caused social media to go off the rails. When's Wendy going to chime in? 

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calliope1975

calliope1975

How long tomorrow in the writer's room will be spent bitching about shippers? Over/under on them writing a villain who's a shipper? 

No one wants to be criticized for their work, but they've repeatedly made poor writing decisions so I go back and forth between pity and loling at TPTB. 

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kismet

kismet

Dear Arrow Writers room, when it comes to writing better stories. In the wise words of Yoda,

do.gif

And let the fans decide what they think about your work.
No need to tell us how what our thoughts, feelings and beliefs about your stories.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

4 hours ago, kismet said:

 Without a fanbase you don't have a job.

That's a thought I tried to explain at TVLine and for my pains I got called "entitled" and a bunch of other put-downs, including being told that I don't deserve respect because my grammar is bad. (????)  Is this the new normal?

3 hours ago, Soulfire said:

Guggenheim messaged with a fan after the episode tonight --

In the convo, Guggie says: “That’s unfortunate. I’ve heard anecdotally that fans were upset about casting news for some reason. Sounds like they’re in a sensitive place. But I haven’t been reading my notifications for many months now.”

If you know they're in a sensitive place, why poke them more?

Not everyone disliked it though Dettoit tweeted that she loved the episode and the O/F convos.

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kismet

kismet

@statsgirl, sadly that is the normal in the comments section of websites... It's just sad.

I saw Dettoit's tweets and given some of her fanfics it would make sense that she might enjoy the tortured drawn out love story.

I haven't watched this week's episode, there was paint drying in my garage. Sorry, for the snark. Ill get around to watching it sometime, perhaps when I'm too exhausted from my job this weekend. r before I need to record over it for a more deserving program. No hits to the CW website for me.

As for why poke people when they are in a sensitive place? Well, it fits their pattern of petulant behavior. They are like the children in the playground that get called out for something and then blame everybody else. Whatever it was the other kid started it. They are lashing out. It's rather pathetic. Two wrongs don't make a right. Then again basic arithmetic was never their strength.

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Belinea

Belinea

(edited)
1 hour ago, kismet said:

Two wrongs don't make a right.

I was actually irritated by his tweet. I don't consider myself a hardcore shipper but I enjoy that element of the show (for however long it lasted.) Reading this makes me feel like I have to apologize for caring. I get that there are really nasty people out there and they shouldn't be be able to make threats and accusations but there are also normal people who don't fit that category and to throw them all in one box is quite rude. Also, shouldn't you be a bigger person? You can get off on the fact that you took away what people loved. Don't taunt them with the fact that they care. All this fighting and negative way of speaking to each other really doesn't make me want to tune in more. It is sad on every level. Seems like people who hate Olicity feel validated, then they say something nasty, something nasty is said back and it goes on and on and on. 

Also: I don't believe that he doesn't know what people are saying or speculating. If he doesn't read it himself someone surely tells him.

Edited by Belinea
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Sunshine

Sunshine

1. The bigwigs are partially responsible for what is happening on screen.

2. This is not a standard model network.  They get most of their money post views not from ad revenue.  They renew shows with .3 so .6 in a 5th season show isn't catastrophic.  L-7 numbers are fine.  If this was on one of the big 3 it might be in trouble but not on the CW.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

From SA facebook chat yesterday (Nov. 2) - I don't think he said anything spoilery enough to warrant spoiler tags...

-- They finished 510 and are starting 511 "today."  They also had to do a pick up a scene for 509, which is their "Christmas episode."

-- In response to fan question of what's going on with Felicity and whether that's completely over now, SA: "Uh, Not that I know of. We still work together. You know, it was - it was actually - it did have a shipping name before it was actually a relationship."

ETA:  I'm tired of all the hate all over the internet nowadays. I know lots of "casual fans" who enjoy the Olicity relationship on Arrow.

Edited by tv echo
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