Social Media and Behind the Scenes: AKA Everything Else Not "News and Media"

[quarks]

Bottom line, some characters were sidelined last season, not only during the crossover but often throughout the entire season, to suit the specific purposes the producers had in mind. This year that might happen again during the crossover, but to different characters.

Oh well.

 

 

I'd like to unpack this days old statement from the spoiler discussion thread a bit, specifically in regards to the three characters initially mentioned: Laurel, Thea and Quentin, because it got me thinking, and I realized that, for me at least, this illustrates one of the overall issues with season three. Doing this in Behind the Scenes because we still don't have an "All Seasons" thread and because this involves writing/screentime issues.

 

First, with Thea. I think it's important to note that Willa Holland/Thea was originally hired in a distinctly supporting role, as the main character's younger sister, behind both Katie Cassidy (Laurel) and Susanna Thompson (Moira).  Her screentime was actually increased this season, and she was finally brought into major plots.

 

Quentin was also hired in a supporting role, and was sidelined this season, with less screentime than he had in either of the first two seasons.  But this, I think, had less to do with Quentin specifically, and more to do with the shift in Arrow's overall direction.

 

In the first season, Arrow was an investigative show (as well as a soap opera), asking the question: when the criminals are part of the highest elite, both financially and socially, who is better equipped to deal with them - vigilantes or legal organizations?  The season ended by suggesting that when the two are in opposition, both fail. In the second season, Arrow - still an investigative show, but shifting to a superhero/fantasy/sci fi show - asked: when facing the unthinkable/humanized weapons from a military program, who again is better equipped to deal with them - vigilantes, local law enforcement, or military government organizations? Arrow said no to the military government organization, and suggested that the only effective solution is to have the first two groups working together.

 

In the third season, Arrow stopped asking these questions. The beginning of the season started off with legal representatives recognizing the Arrow as the effective solution, ending that contrast.  As others have noted, even though the season technically started with a mystery - Who Killed Sara Lance - for the most part, Arrow ignored the mystery, and the biggest clue – the DNA – actually came from another show.  Post episode nine, Arrow pretty much stopped investigating.  Everyone knew, for instance, who Brick was, and what he was doing, and where he was – the only issue was, would Brick be resisted by the city government or vigilantes? After two seasons of showing an increasingly incompetent city government, incapable of stopping a terrorist threat and a superpowered threat without assistance, the answer was pretty obvious: vigilantes. The only question was how to get enough vigilantes. 

 

The rest of the season was mostly Oliver versus the LoA/himself, with occasional bad guys wandering in, but without any need to investigate anything, because everyone knew where the LoA was (New Jersey!), had no problems getting to it (because New Jersey!), and what their agenda was (kill people! Also, shop for candles!)  The limited – very limited – investigations involved Quentin Lance flat out arresting Oliver and later Roy; and the occasional moments of Team Arrow checking things out - Felicity heading to a power plant, Team Arrow wondering what was up with Oliver, about two minutes in the last episode of "Damien Darkh is in this hotel room and ALSO, amazingly enough, we've managed to find all of the assassins releasing bioweapons into the atmosphere in about two minutes because the assassins are just that obvious."

 

This didn't just affect Quentin, who practically vanished off screen because he had nothing to investigate/detective, it affected everyone else, and only got worse as the season continued - the first nine episodes did have more investigation than the rest of the season did.  It's not really a coincidence that one of the few episodes that did feature Team Arrow hunting down a bad guy was "The Secret Origins of Felicity Smoak" episode – since giving Felicity something non-romance or building someone else's robot suit to do largely involves her researching/investigating. But after that and "Guilty" (and to a very minor extent in "The Climb"), Felicity got reduced to "The Girl" largely because she had nothing to investigate. Oliver wasn't shown outsmarting various criminals – even minor ones – or at least hunting down Slade, however ineffectively, leading fans to complain that Oliver got dumber this season.  Ray picked a vigilante career because the show was all "YAY VIGILANTES" and also, his very real skills in research/tech development weren't otherwise needed until the finale.  Diggle, whose role included telling us whatever his contacts found out, or going to check things out, got sidelined in part because Arrow stopped doing that.

 

And one reason why both Thea and Laurel had to be put into costumes is that once the show left its "vigilante" versus "law" concept (something, oddly, picked up by Flash instead, somewhat awkwardly), they had nothing to do except be vigilantes.

 

And I think that also ended up being one of the big problems with season three, where the parts were stronger than the whole. By that I mean season three had some of Arrow's strongest overall episodes, but the season struggled – because the season's big question didn't equally apply to everyone. The first season – what is the appropriate response to evil/wrongdoing?  The law or individual acts? – did apply to everyone, even the one shot villains. As did how do you react to the unthinkable? – even the non-vigilantes/superpowered people: if you're Thea, how do you react to the unthinkable revelation that your father is a serial killer? If you're Laurel, to the unthinkable revelation that your ex boyfriend became a vigilante? If you're Quentin, to finding out that your beloved daughter is alive – but an assassin? If you're Nyssa, to finding out that the love of your life would rather kill herself than go back to you if that meant continuing to kill? If you're Moira, to the possibility that your daughter might be killed right in front of you? If you're Blood, to realizing that the guy who supported you financially and otherwise was launching a superpowered army on the city?

 

But "Who am I?" wasn't quite as universal, since most of the people that popped up on Arrow knew perfectly well who they were. Donna Smoak knew she was Donna Smoak, cocktail waitress. Vertigo Count Two knew he was Vertigo Count Two. And so on. This was also true for the regulars. Diggle knew he was Diggle; the question for him was balancing his family and Team Arrow – not quite the same question.  Felicity may not have known that her ex wasn't dead, or whether (cue romantic gasp) she belonged with Ray or with Oliver, but leaving aside that it was pretty clear who she belonged with and the "oh, come on, are we really saying that her identity is dependent on which guy she picked ARE YOU KIDDING ME" she knew she was Felicity Smoak.  Even Laurel and Thea knew who they were; it was a question of "are we going to get trained and put on leather suits ok yes they look pretty cool and it's the in thing so I guess we are." After all, what was the final reason Laurel suited up? Not to answer that question, but because Oliver was off asking this question, so she was trying to fill in. It wasn't her question, and I think that weakened her journey.

 

So I think that the fundamental problem behind season three was the lack of a universal question. It seemed – to me – to give the season a more disjointed feel (as opposed to season one, and the beginning and end of season two), marginalized some characters, and kept other characters still feeling marginalized despite being on the screen more even though they had more screentime and/or were at least on paper more involved in the plot.  Add on budget issues, network interference, and launching another spinoff, and, well, season three.

 

Meanwhile, going specifically back to the big crossover events of last season - I don't think we can really argue that Thea and Quentin were that marginalized in those episodes. Sure, they didn't cross over to Flash, (although Quentin did in a later crossover) but that was also true of season regular Malcolm; "we want a spinoff for this guy" Ray; the season's Big Bad, Ra's Al Ghul; popular side characters like Nyssa; and popular comics characters like Ted Grant.  Thea had two scenes - less than she's had in some previous episodes, more than she's had in others. (In the first season, for instance, she did not appear in "The Odyssey" at all, and barely appeared in episodes like "Dead to Rights" or "The Huntress Returns.")  Quentin had three scenes, again, more than some, less than other episodes in previous seasons.

[BkWurm1]

I don't think they will give any answer until they see if the Felicity Smoak one DC is doing will sell or not!

I hope not.  The DC FS figure is not what I'd call appealing. 

[tangerine95]

I don't get the deal with funko.Why not just make a FS if so many people are asking for it?Is it just a superhero can have a figure thing? I think I've seen they make main characters figures with a lot of other shows.

Edited July 26, 2015 by tangerine95

[NumberCruncher]

Agreed. I don't see many non-comic fans buying up the DC action figures but I see a ton of them who are willing to buy a Funko (myself included). The simple answer is that the Funko Pop! figures are rather cute so when you see a normally scary/tough/creepy character as one, it's rather hilarious. I've had so many conversations start because people see one of the Funkos on my bookcase in my office and think they are funny. I wish DC would understand why the appeal is so different.

Edited July 26, 2015 by NumberCruncher

[Velocity23]

 

 

 

 

 

 

IGN posted SDCC portraits of the Arrow cast

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/07/26/comic-con-2015-in-portraits

[BkWurm1]

I love PB's mug.  Both his smile and the one in his hand. 

[Serena]

I'm of the impression that they just don't know that the girl in glasses and a ponytail is as much as a hero as the ones in the costumes.  They probably think she's just a love interest.  

I don't get why they care if she's a hero or a love interest. Are they the hero-police? Isn't their goal to sell as many dolls as possible? Clearly, fans have proved that a Felicity doll would sell - hell, the Arrow TPTB routinely use the Olicity fandom to sell their shit - comic books, novels, etc. 

Edited July 26, 2015 by Serena

[jay741982]

IGN posted SDCC portraits of the Arrow cast

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/07/26/comic-con-2015-in-portraits

Willa and Emily looking so HAWT!

[tv echo]

Great post, quarks.

 

In one of the SDCC press interviews, WM said that in the beginning, Arrow was conceived as being "more procedural”, but they moved away from that very quickly. WM: "But one of the things that we discovered that really works is that making sure that whatever Oliver’s going through emotionally really speaks to the action. And that's really what we work for in every episode.  And that it's evolved, but it's pretty much the core of what we do."

 

So... when Oliver's an emotional mess, the show's a mess?

Edited July 26, 2015 by tv echo

[Genki]

Explains so much...

 

Oliver dumb for for plot sake...shown dumb for plot sake

[tv echo]

KL and KY at MCM Manchester Comic Con yesterday (the third person is Jocko Sims from The Last Ship)..

 

 

 

(source)

Edited July 26, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Jarett Wieselman ‏@JarettSays  6h6 hours ago

Birthday girl

 

https://twitter.com/JarettSays/status/625185077069135872

Edited July 26, 2015 by tv echo

[AyChihuahua]

Quarks, I agree with most of your post, except re Oliver being shown as dumber bc he didn't do much v. the VsOTW. My complaint re him being dumb (as a doorknob, as unbuttered toast, as a rock, as a post) is that every single decision he made involving/affecting the LOA storyline and related strategic/tactical decisions was ABSOLUTELY UNBEARABLY STUPID. Pretty much from 3.4 on, he made the worst decision possible every single time. I've listed most of them before, but telling Nyssa Thea was Malcolm's daughter...Moronic. Believing Malcolm when he said he had nothing to do with killing Sara...So stupid it makes goats look smart Declaring Malcolm under his protection (when Malcolm is utterly and totally deserving of punishment for The Undertaking, regardless of any other issues)...Oliver, do you have ANY working brain cells? Not even TRYING to hand Malcolm over to regular authorities...WTF? Agreeing to fight Ra's on Ra's terms...Real creative, dumbass? Completely taking to heart every single bullshit fortune cookie line any random person tells him...Freshman Philosophy 101? Trusting the guy who literally is the one and only reason the LOA was after him in the first place...WTH? Going on a 99% (based on what he knew) suicide mission and letting Digg, a father, come along, to save Malcolm the Scumbag...Way to get your best friend killed bc of your masculinity issues, dude. Not involving Digg in his general plan to undermine the LOA from the inside while faking brainwashing, when Digg "keeps secrets for a living" and did not tell his own wife The Flash's identity, and Digg could have provided a ginormous amount of strategic and tactical assistance with the plan...How did you survive this long? Not having his loved ones guarded/hidden, knowing the LOA was after them...You left your sister alone and sad bc she thinks Roy's really dead bc you can't bother with a damn phone call to clue her in, at her own loft, knowing the LOA is gunning for you? Knowingly and intentionally putting his entire city and its whole population in the concentrated and focused sights of the most evil and powerful (as far as he knew) terrorist organization in the world to save his sister...And you call yourself a hero? Coming up with an at most half-assed plan to prevent the A/O virus attack, even after having weeks to plan...Too many head injuries, Oliver?

As an aside, his original plan in calling in his team was for them to destroy the virus. Then what? What was his plan to keep them from being killed, bc if all the virus had been destroyed as planned, RAG would have killed them another way, meaning they'd actually be dead. Did he really think they could take out the plane and then fight their way out successfully and not have the LOA follow them back to Starling? God he is so shockingly stupid now.

Edited July 26, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[TwistedandBored]

Its apples and oranges. I doubt that is the hold up on the Pop Funko.

 

I agree. I just thought that have been one of the reasons. Another could be they really didn't know how much people were interested in Felicity Smoak figurine until they saw many people were asking about her during that Q&A. I mean they knew there was interest just not aware it was that huge. They might decide to make one. Who knows really. Aren't they the same people that didn't make one of Black Widow? 

[lemotomato]

There are two Black Widow Funko Pops, but I don't know if people had to start campaigns to get them made. 

 

I don't know if I'd even believe that perceived demand is a factor in their decisions on what to make into a figure. I can't imagine they thought figures of a character from the Tomorrowland movie would fly off shelves (and they made 3 versions of him!)

[wonderwall]

Coming back to the Heroes & Villains con, I most definitely think Emily won't be going because she has yet to confirm with the organizers if she'll be attending or not. 

 

https://twitter.com/heroesfanfest/status/625292440652505088

 

*sigh* As much as I respect EBR and her not wanting to do cons, I feel like it's important for her to do so SOMETIMES. It sort of irks me that she doesn't do more cons. And by more I mean 1-2 that are not mandatory. 

[wingster55]

I feel it's also odd that they're announcing them so early. Dragon Con for instance is STILL announcing names and it's less than 2 months away as opposed to 4. 

Then again it's a brand new convention...

[foreverevolving]

There are two Black Widow Funko Pops, but I don't know if people had to start campaigns to get them made. 

 

I don't know if I'd even believe that perceived demand is a factor in their decisions on what to make into a figure. I can't imagine they thought figures of a character from the Tomorrowland movie would fly off shelves (and they made 3 versions of him!)

 

Ohh!!  a george clooney funko pop.. I may have to buy it. Also I have to admit-- I find the small funko pop to look more like George Clooney than the action figure ...

Edited July 27, 2015 by foreverevolving

[TwistedandBored]

I don't know I remember people being upset with them because they had Funko Pops of every Avenger except for a Black Widow. I could be wrong.

 

I can't believe they made three Funko Pops of that movie. The Tomorrowland movie sucked. 

 

 

 

I am actually cool with EBR not attending if she doesn't want to. It her decision plus she might not want to go now that she knows more of what is going to happen in season 4. She might be scared she will unintentionally say something she shouldn't say. 

Edited July 27, 2015 by TwistedandBored

[SmallScreenDiva]

Stephen tweeted this earlier :) The player's name is Justin Smoak.

 

[wingster55]

First, with Thea. I think it's important to note that Willa Holland/Thea was originally hired in a distinctly supporting role, as the main character's younger sister,

 

I think that actually wasn't the case. Behind Katie, sure but I think she was supposed to be equal with Susanna. I do remember that they had WIlla do promotion in NYCC and Vancouver Fan Expo before the show debuted. But also in that Oliver and Thea consistently in the first half of the season. Then for some reason they backed off with Oliver getting consistent screen time with...everyone else (he was always with Diggle, Laurel remained his love interest, Tommy and Felicity found out, and Moira though less so was revealed to Oliver) while Thea was sent of to Harper's Island (who in the following season had his hero journey first, a decision I wish they never did) 

[tv echo]

Arrow Production Office tweeted a bunch of pics with the hashtag #ArrowSeattleTakeover...

 

 

 

[tv echo]

From SA's facebook page...

Stephen Amell
17 hrs · Edited ·
I am so lucky to work with the very best crew on TV. Which is precisely why we're drinking beer and watching the Toronto Blue Jays in Seattle.

 

https://www.facebook.com/stephenamell/photos/a.147252908693318.37696.146921975393078/892644050820863/?type=1&theater

Edited July 27, 2015 by tv echo

[Chaser]

Smoak. They saw the opportunity and they took it. lol

 

It's cool to see the cast show such appreciation for the crew. This Blue Jays outing and Emily sending them a Sweet Truck.

[tv echo]

DP is the latest actor from the Flarrow universe to join the Heroes & Villains FanFest in November...

http://heroesfanfest.com/guests/

[tv echo]

This New Zealand ad starts with SA and ends with EBR...

 

NZ'S TV2 ad with Emily Bett Rickards, Stephen Amell, Kat Dennings, Robbie Amell, etc
Published on Jul 25, 2015, by EmilyBettRickards Portugal

Edited July 27, 2015 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

When was the last time The WB did their Mondo Event?  This is from 2 years ago

[foreverevolving]

When was the last time The WB did their Mondo Event?  This is from 2 years ago

 I didn't even realize! I thought since both Robbie and what's her name are on the flash too they just put them together.

[quarks]

I think that actually wasn't the case. Behind Katie, sure but I think she was supposed to be equal with Susanna. I do remember that they had WIlla do promotion in NYCC and Vancouver Fan Expo before the show debuted. But also in that Oliver and Thea consistently in the first half of the season. Then for some reason they backed off with Oliver getting consistent screen time with...everyone else (he was always with Diggle, Laurel remained his love interest, Tommy and Felicity found out, and Moira though less so was revealed to Oliver) while Thea was sent of to Harper's Island (who in the following season had his hero journey first, a decision I wish they never did) 

 

I'm pretty sure it was. First, having Holland do promotion at various cons doesn't mean that much - Berlanti is doing the same thing with Legends and Supergirl right now, for instance, and beyond that, NYCC and Vancouver Fan Expo usually book directly with the talent, not through the shows.  (With NYCC there are some exceptions, but that's generally with NY publishers, not acting talent.)  All of the cast did pre-show promotions, and even now, guest stars who aren't returning (hi, Karl Yune) are still promoting the show at conventions. Second, when Arrow started, despite her work on The O.C., Holland was not as well known as Cassidy or Thompson.

 

Third, in the pilot, Thea had less screentime than the rest of the cast. Granted, that was also true for runner-up Diggle, but by episode two, Diggle's screentime started to increase, with Diggle gradually overtaking Laurel in screentime starting in episode three (something I don't think was planned during the pilot, but got switched by the blocking of episode three, when the showrunners decided, by their own admission, to bring someone into Oliver's secret earlier than anticipated to end the need for those horrible voiceovers) Thea's screentime, however, stayed low for the first five episodes; appearing on screen less than others credited as guest stars in some episodes, a good indication that she was always intended for a supporting role.

 

Fourth, Thea and Tommy were the only characters in the original main cast not to have a "supporting" group in the first five episodes - that is, separate characters who appeared more than once with actual dialogue. Laurel had Joanna; Quentin had his partner and other cops; Moira had her conspirators; Diggle had Carly. Thea did have a friend who showed up in the pilot and then vanished; she had other friends appear briefly in later episodes, but with the exception of the one episode boyfriend, they weren't named or given much dialogue.  Tommy was at least also linked to Laurel, and by episode 8 to Moira's conspirators. Thea never got that link, another indication that Thea was, from the beginning, seen as purely supporting, not part of an ensemble - an idea Arrow swiftly dropped in any case, if that idea was even there to begin with. (Based on the first three episodes, probably not, although Laurel was almost certainly initially intended to play a much larger, more central role than she later ended up playing.  Everyone else was distinctly supporting.)  Thea and Tommy were also the two characters not associated with a distinct set. Laurel had two - the CNRI offices and her apartment; Quentin had the police department; Diggle had the Big Belly Burger set, which later became used by more characters, but also remained the "home" for his supporting character, Carly; Moira and Walter had the QC offices and her bedroom set. If you watch, Thea's bedroom switches from being a part of Oliver's bedroom set, with the furniture moved around, or a part of Moira's bedroom set, with the furniture moved around, and some lighting changes.  All further indications that Thea was meant to be a supporting character.

 

Based on what Holland just said in at SDCC, and based on the end of episode 5, where Thea is staring at the rock Oliver gave her, I do think that the original plan was to bring Thea into Oliver's secret much earlier on - possibly by episode 14 or at least by the end of the series - and having her be Oliver's sidekick. That changed, I think, in recognition of the problems of Oliver/Laurel, Oliver/Laurel/Tommy, and the audience reception to Thea herself. (It's hard to remember now, but one of the biggest problems Arrow  initially faced was that a good half of its cast - pretty much all of the younger members- were perceived as unlikable for one reason or another.) As I've argued elsewhere, I'm pretty sure that Arrow decided to back off of Oliver/Laurel early on - probably shortly after the pilot aired at SDCC, or when Arrow was blocking out episode 6 onwards - not coincidentally, at about the same time that Laurel largely got removed from major plot lines and what Oliver was doing as the Hood (she would only be involved in three more Hood-related plots after episode 5).  That in turn led to a decision to kill off Tommy, which in turn led to the decision that Arrow needed a young, hot looking guy to replace him - which led to the decision to bring on Roy Harper. 

 

Or, to sum up, Thea's screentime has been limited since season one; season three wasn't so much marginalizing her, as keeping the status quo. I continue to hope this will change, since in my opinion Willa Holland is the strongest of the three remaining actresses, but that's a hope, not a certainty. 

[AyChihuahua]

Quarks, you think that if Laurel had remained the LI, they wouldn't have killed off Tommy?  I'm really curious re what their original plan was.  He would have become the Dark Archer, I guess, but how much of Malcolm's S2/S3 stuff would have gone to him?  And if they'd planned on making Oliver Malcolm's kid instead of Thea, how would that have worked in S3.

 

I couldn't stand Thea in the beginning, so I was happy with them cutting her time.  I always liked the actress, but only started liking the character after she hooked up with Roy.  He softened her and gave her something to do besides snipe at her brother and her mother.

[dtissagirl]

I distinctly remember an interview with the showrunners [Guggenheim, I think?] -- I'm almost sure it was from before the show even premiered -- in which they mentioned this version of Oliver Queen had a sister because the CW asked them to add a teenager to the cast.

 

And then I just figured they realized they didn't actually need a teenager to entice the audience, so Thea was left in limbo with not much to do in S1 until Roy showed up, and they gained a co-joined storyline.

[BumpSetSpike]

I don't think SA is a bully, I think he's a bit of a dick at times and a major drama queen but i don't think he's a cyber bully.

 

This is exactly how I feel about him lately.  Exactly.

[dtissagirl]

Writer Jake Coburn has joined Twitter. Guggenheim welcomed him in the greatest possible way ever:

 

https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/625701016839675904

 

I love you for the whole next hour, Guggie.

[wonderwall]

Writer Jake Coburn has joined Twitter. Guggenheim welcomed him in the greatest possible way ever:

 

https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/625701016839675904

 

I love you for the whole next hour, Guggie.

HIs tweet made me laugh ridiculously loudly at work. I hate him. But also love him for that. 

[Soulfire]

Paul Blackthorne posted some BTS pics on his Facebook. Here are some examples --

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(There's one of Neal McDonough as Damien Dahrk in the Spoilers Thread.)

[quarks]

Quarks, you think that if Laurel had remained the LI, they wouldn't have killed off Tommy?  I'm really curious re what their original plan was.  He would have become the Dark Archer, I guess, but how much of Malcolm's S2/S3 stuff would have gone to him?  And if they'd planned on making Oliver Malcolm's kid instead of Thea, how would that have worked in S3.

 

I don't know, but I think the original plan was to keep Tommy alive, turning him into Oliver's enemy, and killing off someone else.  My guess - and it's just a guess - is that when audiences didn't respond to the Oliver/Laurel/Tommy love triangle, adjustments got made - so instead of Tommy, the best friend turned enemy - over a woman - became Slade. Note that Slade/Manu Bennett was hired at more or less the same time that all of these adjustments were being made - EBR/Felicity finding out about the Arrow Cave before Laurel (moving Felicity, not Laurel, into the traditional comic book role), and bringing Roy Harper aboard, played by a guy with a built in young and loyal audience. And Slade was specifically cast as an older guy, probably because, whatever the CW's feelings on teenage characters, Arrow's audience had responded more positively to the older characters - Diggle, Moira, Quentin, Malcolm and Walter. I suspect the original plans were to keep Slade on for longer - there's a reason he didn't die at the end of season two - but Slade was caught in the season two ratings slide that started in episode 10, then really hit in episode 14 and stayed for the rest of the season with the slight exception of "Birds of Prey." My own thought is that this ratings slide wasn't related to Slade, but that's me, and I don't have access to the same data that Berlanti and the CW do.  But the end result of this is that Oliver's great rival is no longer a former friend, but the father of his best friend and his half sister - not quite the same relationship. 

 

I also think that a lot more of these plans went out the window in season three, after Arrow had successfully launched a spinoff.

[BkWurm1]

But also in that Oliver and Thea consistently in the first half of the season. Then for some reason they backed off with Oliver getting consistent screen time with...everyone else (he was always with Diggle, Laurel remained his love interest, Tommy and Felicity found out, and Moira though less so was revealed to Oliver) while Thea was sent of to Harper's Island

 

Going to reply to the idea of Thea stuck on Harper's island in her thread, but first, wondered if the reason why Thea and Oliver suddenly started spending a lot less time together had anything to do with the growing Queencest shippers.  People early on kept complaining about TOO much chemistry between SA and WH.  

[Chaser]

That one shot of NM is more imposing than NM already.

 

Where all those taken the same day? I'm disappointed not to see EBR.

[apinknightmare]

Where all those taken the same day? I'm disappointed not to see EBR.

 

I think PB might not have shot much with EBR yet, since O/F are out of town for at least part of the first ep, and I'm assuming they'll have Felicity dealing with the aftermath of Ray doing whatever. 

 

Does KC have a rope wrapped around her arm in the 4th pic down, or is that someone else?

[AyChihuahua]

You know, I always felt like the Queencest vibe came mostly from Willa, but when Oliver kisses Thea's cheek at her birthday party, it was a little...linger-y.  And filmed sort of close-up.  So I guess it did come kind of from both. 

[lemotomato]

I thought it was more WH than SA too, but after watching their scenes with other characters I think they just both have a lot of chemistry with everyone. WH sparked well with Colin Donnell and Colton and I thought quite a few of the SA/DR and SA/CD scenes in season 1 were kind of slashy.

[BkWurm1]

Two things stood out to me.  KC is looking VERY blond and her mask is just about the worst at concealing identity ever. Without blacking out her eyes, I swear the mask makes her more recognizable, not less. 

[tangerine95]

IMO if they didn't drop L/O Tommy would definitely still be alive.CD said that he had signed a 6 year contact.I think they would have had Tommy do what Thea did and train with Malcolm.Since the prods seem to be unwilling to let JB go even when they should,Tommy and Malcolm would probably work together against Oliver.And ofcourse the love triangle would drag for a couple of seasons.Really glad they saw it could never work without a believable Lauriver relationship and dropped it.

About SA and WH chemistry,I see more from her side and it was mostly in early season 1.I mean its hard not to see the chemistry when they give them scenes like her touching his scars.They have only themselves to blame for the queencest shipping lol.

Edited July 27, 2015 by tangerine95

[tangerine95]

I don't get why KC is the only one not to have the black paint around her eyes.Her mask really doesn't conceal anything at all.Maybe its so we can see her eye makeup better.

[lemotomato]

That's why she wears fingerless gloves, isn't it? To show off her nails? (I'm genuinely curious as to why. I kind of remember her nail polish being mentioned when the pictures of the suit first came out, but it could just be colored by my disdain for that costuming choice)

Edited July 27, 2015 by lemotomato

[quarks]

I think part of the early potentially inappropriate Willa Holland/Stephen Amell chemistry came from the fact that she (and to a lesser extent Tommy) were the only characters not continually yelling at him on screen, and therefore, about the only characters he was connecting with, period. And he and Tommy didn't have that many independent scenes together - they were often with a disapproving Diggle, Moira, Laurel or Quentin, and Tommy never showed quite the same sort of concern for Oliver that Thea did. Thea did get after Oliver from time to time, but mostly in a "stop closing yourself off" sort of way.  Plus, in those early episodes we were also dealing with the hell that was the earliest Hood/Laurel scenes, which, for whatever reason, were worse than the Oliver/Laurel scenes, which were close to painful to watch - I think because they were blocked to ensure that Laurel couldn't see Oliver/the Hood clearly, which in turn meant that Amell couldn't watch Cassidy, and in general, Amell seems to do better as an actor when he can watch/react to the other person in the scene. (My impression.) So viewers were looking for someone that the Hood, not just Oliver, could connect with, and the first few episodes suggested that Thea could potentially be that person, until that person turned out to be Diggle.

 

I wanted to add one more note: I do think some of these (theorized) changes ended up strengthening the show.  Turning the slightly slimy Tommy of the pilot, with the insinuations of earlier date rape, into the friend who took an ethical stance against Oliver's killing sprees, and the inspiration for Oliver's later "I shall kill no one unless they threaten Felicity or unless I want access to the League of Assassins luxury hot tubs and romantic getaway rooms" vow, was one of the most brilliant strokes of the first season, for instance.

[Morrigan2575]

I don't get why KC is the only one not to have the black paint around her eyes.Her mask really doesn't conceal anything at all.Maybe its so we can see her eye makeup better.

because KC didn't want the eye makeup.

The fingerless gloves are because she wanted to coordinate the nail polish with the lipstick.

[tangerine95]

Wow so instead of CL who paid attention to how her character moved and stood to make herself more intimidating we now have Barbie Canary with coordinating lipstick and nail polish.

[AyChihuahua]

Or if they're in Russia. That counts for screwing domestic terrorist daddy-mistresses AND killing lots and lots of gulag guards.

[dtissagirl]

I put the Russian Guards on Felicity and Diggle, just for variety's sake. She made the coat into a bomb, he delivered the coat into the prison. Oliver probably nodded along, but still.

Edited July 27, 2015 by dancingnancy