Books vs. the Show (2015)

[rebecca dewinter]

On 8/7/2017 at 10:39 PM, nodorothyparker said:

Because I finally got around to watching the season 3 ender and am feeling ranty about it, can I just ask WTF happened to the writing in the Hugh Armitage affair with Prudie pushing Demelza into it by claiming that she saw Ross and Elizabeth going at it graveside at the church and what's good for the goose is good for the gander?  Holy hell.  Gone is all the delicate writing in both Ross and Demelza acknowledging that he'd rescued a starving abused 13-year-old, raised her up, and basically My Fair Ladyed her into the wife and adult woman she became and that she was so grateful that she'd never had any conscious free choice to choose anything different.  Gone is all of Demelza's confusion and giddiness in being courted as an equal and being treated as something worth pursuing, or her sorrow over his impending loss of eyesight and the waste of his youth.  Instead, we just get round 217 of Ross giving her a short dickish answer about something because his head is elsewhere and her reacting to it by snitting back at him about what she thinks happened with Elizabeth, thanks to Prudie slurring a misunderstanding worthy of Three's Company in her ear.  Why?  Is it really too difficult or complicated to depict one of the biggest trials of their marriage as written, one that will continue to be a trial and affect actions and their regard for each other well into the next book?

As a non-book reader, I guess I don't have strong opinions about this (but I understand how frustrating it is when something isn't adapted properly, as that's a huge issue I'm having with Game of Thrones at the moment). But from what I've heard about the book storyline, it sounds like a bit difficult to translate to a visual medium? To me it sounds like in the books, Demelza sleeps with Hugh half out of pity for his whatever eye condition that makes no sense and half out of gratitude for his wooing which she's never had before. Personally, I would've had a hard time buying that without A LOT of monologuing. Also I've heard that there's far less tension in the Ross/Demelza marriage in the books at this point, which is another sticking point I would presume. I think audiences would have a hard time accepting that Demelza would cheat while in a happy marriage and would potentially have a hard time rooting for Ross/Demelza's relationship going forward (which already suffered a huge blow last season). As this is a popular show whose main attraction is the sweeping romance (+ shirtless moments), they probably just wanted to preserve people's image of the main couple.

Yes, they already did damage last season with the Elizabeth affair but that to me always made sense and seemed absolutely inevitable from the get-go. I knew from the moment Ross hastily married Demelza in S1E3 that he would eventually succumb to Elizabeth sooner or later. And once Francis died, it was just a matter of when/how than if. The Hugh situation felt very different to me. Not only because Ross saved his life (even if it was accidentally) but there's really so little to his character? He just seemed like a human obstacle lol. 

As for the My Fair Lady aspect, I think some of that was lost when they aged up Demelza significantly. She's at the youngest 16-17 when first introduced, I mean honestly Eleanor really couldn't pass for anything less than that. And the fact that they show her brazenly lusting over Ross just makes the dynamic a bit different I assume? 

[fredfreddy44]

Is that how Aunt Agatha died in the books?  Did she reveal Valentine's parentage to George in the book before she died?

[Clawdette]

Oh, yes.  The show lifted the dialog almost directly from the book.

 

[Neurochick]

Yep, that really messed with George's head.

[Neurochick]

On October 27, 2017 at 10:36 PM, rebecca dewinter said:

To me it sounds like in the books, Demelza sleeps with Hugh half out of pity for his whatever eye condition that makes no sense and half out of gratitude for his wooing which she's never had before.

Actually, by the time Demelza sleeps with Hugh, she knows

Spoiler

that his going blind is because he has a brain tumor that is killing him.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Neurochick

[rebecca dewinter]

On ‎11‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 7:42 PM, Neurochick said:

Actually, by the time Demelza sleeps with Hugh, she knows

  Hide contents

that his going blind is because he has a brain tumor that is killing him.

Ok but you can't get that from sketching in the dark..

[Llywela]

10 hours ago, rebecca dewinter said:

Ok but you can't get that from sketching in the dark..

It's the 1790s, diagnostic medicine is in its infancy, really. It takes time for the true nature of Hugh's condition to become apparent - easy to blame his failing eyesight on months spent scribbling poetry in the dark in the first instance, immediately after the rescue (the show made him an artist rather than a poet, did it? Easier to translate visually, I guess). After that, it is a slow, painful decline, and only slowly becomes apparent that the cause is something far more sinister and deadly and incurable. So yes, in the books Demelza does sleep with him as much out of pity for his impending death as in response to his wooing - she finds his whole story tremendously sad, a young life that can't be saved even though he has been rescued from the helllish conditions in that prison camp. She knows he is in love with her and longs to be able to give him something tangible, since she can't love him back.

[Nidratime]

Mistakenly placed this in the no book talk episode thread, and even though it doesn't discuss any spoilers, I am referencing the storyline generally:

Quote

I realized this was the season (or series) three finale, but I was a little surprised at where they ended it. I read the first seven books years ago and saw the previous adaptation in the 1970's, so I was expecting there to be a bit more. But, logically, while I was watching it, I also figured that they couldn't get everything in I expected in fifteen minutes. So! Season (series) 4? I assume there's going to be one. But, is there enough material for an entire season? Will it be shorter?

[Neurochick]

It looked like this season took "The Black Moon" and part of "The Four Swans," this season.   I guess next year they'll do the second part of "Four Swans" and "The Angry Tide."  IMO, you can stop reading after that book; I read all 12 books, the last aren't bad, just not as good as the first books.

Actually, in the book, Prudie doesn't really tell Demelza that she saw Ross and Elizabeth together.  I think in the book, Judd saw them, but he thought it was Demelza, because, in the book, it was dark outside.  Judd said something to Demelza like, "I saw you and Captain Poldark...." and Demelza's like, "that wasn't me," and then she figures out it was Elizabeth.  

After reading all 12 books, Demelza's affair really wasn't that big a deal.  Ross really didn't put two and two together until he read one of Hugh's letters and then got a bit upset, but he never confronted Demelza about it.  In the book, there are about four or more secrets that just go unanswered, something that would NEVER happen today.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Neurochick

[rebecca dewinter]

The idea that ross would just not even confront her about it is kind of weird and ooc for a man of his time (also his hot headed personality). Maybe that's just the story's way of letting demelza off the hook, but if that were me, I would get the impression my husband just doesn't give a shit about it. Not to mention, just like 1-2 year ago he was so enraged at the idea of Elizabeth marrying George that he did some very questionable things.. 

[Jacks-Son]

44 minutes ago, rebecca dewinter said:

The idea that ross would just not even confront her about it is kind of weird and ooc for a man of his time (also his hot headed personality). Maybe that's just the story's way of letting demelza off the hook, but if that were me, I would get the impression my husband just doesn't give a shit about it. Not to mention, just like 1-2 year ago he was so enraged at the idea of Elizabeth marrying George that he did some very questionable things.. 

Maybe he's maturing?  Nah...  He has no leg to stand on. Demelza already told him that she might stray. He may have thought that she was joking, but when he came home and she wasn't there, he figured something was up. He looked and found the George instead, but when she came home late at night, what could he say. He just sucked it up and held her. That was probably THE most mature thing he has ever done. Otherwise he's hothead walking 24/7.

[rebecca dewinter]

17 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

Maybe he's maturing?  Nah...  He has no leg to stand on. Demelza already told him that she might stray. He may have thought that she was joking, but when he came home and she wasn't there, he figured something was up. He looked and found the George instead, but when she came home late at night, what could he say. He just sucked it up and held her. That was probably THE most mature thing he has ever done. Otherwise he's hothead walking 24/7.

I just mean if I'm Demelza and one of the reasons I slept with One Direction kid is because my husband wasn't paying me enough attention and was still seeing his ex behind my back (who btw is the woman who aroused such strong passion in him that he went and did something incredibly stupid), and his reaction to this affair is just.. meh ok, I would probably feel worse? like wow good to know you don't care!  

[nodorothyparker]

On 11/20/2017 at 2:51 PM, Neurochick said:

After reading all 12 books, Demelza's affair really wasn't that big a deal.  Ross really didn't put two and two together until he read one of Hugh's letters and then got a bit upset, but he never confronted Demelza about it.  In the book, there are about four or more secrets that just go unanswered, something that would NEVER happen today.

IIRC, his internal monologue is pretty damn angry, basically I raised her up from nothing, how dare the cheating slut, blah blah blah, but he's fairly restrained in his outward reaction and there isn't a big dramatic confrontation because he does sort of understand how they got there and that he owns a share of the blame for it.  Without giving away a huge chunk of the plot for The Angry Tide that next season should be covering, there is an outsized delayed reaction to all of this while they're trying to fix the damage and distance this fling causes. 

[rebecca dewinter]

I assume he's just gonna be like George from the last 2 episodes re: Elizabeth. Just leave town and ignore her so you don't have to deal with this issue.

[Neurochick]

11 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

IIRC, his internal monologue is pretty damn angry, basically I raised her up from nothing, how dare the cheating slut, blah blah blah, but he's fairly restrained in his outward reaction and there isn't a big dramatic confrontation because he does sort of understand how they got there and that he owns a share of the blame for it.  Without giving away a huge chunk of the plot for The Angry Tide that next season should be covering, there is an outsized delayed reaction to all of this while they're trying to fix the damage and distance this fling causes. 

True, in the book there's a lot of what's going on internally in people's minds.  Ross was angry at first, but there weren't any angry, dramatic confrontations.  Like I said, many secrets never did come to light in the book.

[nodorothyparker]

Yep, I'm still meandering through the last books in the series with the grownup kids and every scene with Jeremy or Clowance hanging out with Valentine while the parents furrow their brows worriedly in the background but never say a damn thing about it just kill me.

[LJones41]

Quote

After reading all 12 books, Demelza's affair really wasn't that big a deal.  Ross really didn't put two and two together until he read one of Hugh's letters and then got a bit upset, but he never confronted Demelza about it.  In the book, there are about four or more secrets that just go unanswered, something that would NEVER happen today.

 

I thought there was a consequence to Demelza's affair.

[Anothermi]

Bumping this up as a reminder to post observations on how the show differs from the book  here.

Although I like to read those discrepancies, not everyone using this forum does, and the episode threads are clearly labeled  with the "no book talk" box.

[CTrent29]

I'm aware that the series is different from the novels.  I'm aware of this.  I just don't like how Debbie Horsfield handled these changes.  Then again, I wasn't that impressed by how Coburn and Barry handled their adaptation from the 1970s.

 

It's odd.  Coburn and Barry made a lot of unnecessary changes to Graham's first four novels.  Changes that I thought were badly written.  Yet, they did a better job with the adaptations of Books Five to Seven.  Their adaptations weren't perfect, but pretty good.

 

I feel the complete opposite with Horsfied's adaptations.  I thought she did a pretty good job in adapting Books One to Four - with the exception of the second half of "Warleggan" and a few other stuff in the earlier novels.  But Horsfield's adaptations of Books Five and Six have pretty much disgusted me.  I found most of the changes unnecessary and heavy-handed.  Worse, these changes seemed to be all about making Ross and Demelza nearly ideal at times . . . to the point that I'm beginning to dislike Demelza.  I've disliked Ross since he raped Elizabeth in the second half of Season 2.

Just now, CTrent29 said:

I'm aware that the series is different from the novels.  I'm aware of this.  I just don't like how Debbie Horsfield handled these changes.  Then again, I wasn't that impressed by how Coburn and Barry handled their adaptation from the 1970s.

 

It's odd.  Coburn and Barry made a lot of unnecessary changes to Graham's first four novels.  Changes that I thought were badly written, especially for Book Four - "Warleggan".  Yet, they did a better job with the adaptations of Books Five to Seven.  Their adaptations weren't perfect, but pretty good.

 

I feel the complete opposite with Horsfied's adaptations.  I thought she did a pretty good job in adapting Books One to Four - with the exception of the second half of "Warleggan" and a few other stuff in the earlier novels.  But Horsfield's adaptations of Books Five and Six have pretty much disgusted me.  I found most of the changes unnecessary and heavy-handed.  Worse, these changes seemed to be all about making Ross and Demelza nearly ideal at times . . . to the point that I'm beginning to dislike Demelza.  I've disliked Ross since he raped Elizabeth in the second half of Season 2.