Becoming Us - General Discussion

[Madding crowd]

I noticed Danielle said that too! I think she is a nice girl but maybe not too bright. I do like how supportive she is with her dad. I also appreciate it that Danielle's family found a way to make it work for them as a family. I'm sure her mom is still hurt, but they want to put their daughter first. I liked that the friends were missing from this episode (I didn't mind Danielle's friend because otherwise she would be just talking to the camera).

[metalchik]

I finally was able to watch the current episode and I just wanted to say I was so hoping for a good date for Dan.  She is such a sweetheart and it made me sad that she told her daughter it was a bad night.  I really hope she finds someone that can accept her for her and has a happy relationship.

 

I'm anxious for the next episode dealing with Carly's surgery and Lathan's new love interest. 

[joanne3482]

Is it wrong that I spent most of Carly's tearful letter reading wondering where she got that fabulous necklace? I wasn't moved by her letter. It felt manipulative to me. 

 

 

I finally was able to watch the current episode and I just wanted to say I was so hoping for a good date for Dan.  She is such a sweetheart and it made me sad that she told her daughter it was a bad night.  I really hope she finds someone that can accept her for her and has a happy relationship.

 

I'm anxious for the next episode dealing with Carly's surgery and Lathan's new love interest. 

I too am excited for the surgery and Lathan's new love.  I think Lathan should have come clean when Chris did. It may bite him that he wasn't honest originally. 

 

I felt really badly for Dan too. It's going to be a hard road for Dan I think. I have a friend who dates trans men fairly regularly but he is unique and I don't know that there are a lot of men who are as open minded as he. 

[metalchik]

Is it wrong that I spent most of Carly's tearful letter reading wondering where she got that fabulous necklace? I wasn't moved by her letter. It felt manipulative to me. 

 

 

I too am excited for the surgery and Lathan's new love.  I think Lathan should have come clean when Chris did. It may bite him that he wasn't honest originally. 

 

I felt really badly for Dan too. It's going to be a hard road for Dan I think. I have a friend who dates trans men fairly regularly but he is unique and I don't know that there are a lot of men who are as open minded as he. 

I still don't understand why Lathan didn't tell Chris about himself when the subject came up. I think that's a little deceptive on his part - wouldn't he want the same courtesy of someone being totally up front and honest from the start?  Maybe Chris will be totally ok with it....

 

And Dan has to be my favorite on the show.  I just want good things for Dan.  May I ask if your friend is a gay male?  If I remember correctly, Dan has stated that he's not interested in a gay male and I'm not so sure how easy that's going to be for him to find.  Though I really do hope he finds that special person to spend his life with.

[joanne3482]

May I ask if your friend is a gay male?  If I remember correctly, Dan has stated that he's not interested in a gay male and I'm not so sure how easy that's going to be for him to find.

 

My friend identifies as bisexual. He says you have to be really open and communicative about sex in ways that heterosexual or gay couples don't necessarily need to be when you are partnered with a transgender person because of the varying degrees of surgery that they may have gone through. IIRC Dan said he had his testicles removed but I think still has his penis? Your average straight guy that you meet on a dating website may not be okay with that.

[Kostgard]

I enjoyed this episode a lot more than the previous one (which almost made me give up on the show) because it actually dealt with Ben and Carly and the issues there instead of spending the episode on Ben's rando college-age friends and their manufactured drama, and because he got to know Dan a little bit better.

 

Dan seems like a nice person and I do hope that he finds someone, though it may be tough going, since it seems he's kinda at a midpoint between male and female and he needs to find someone cool with that. I wonder why the date was such a disaster - because the guy just wasn't cool with where Dan is on the gender spectrum, or did he just see Dan as the focus of some sort of fetish?

 

Mostly I'm okay with Carly's selfishness because I think after living a lie your whole life and then deciding to embrace who you really are takes something of a "I need to be true to me and NOTHING is standing in my way" attitude, even if sometimes people get hurt, but I think stuff like not responding when Ben calls her Dad is a jerk move. I was okay with the letter scene because I think it was the first real taste we got of the pain the transition has caused Ben. He ultimately loves and supports Carly, but he finally said that it's been really hard on him. I hope Carly heard that and didn't just take the victory of Ben agreeing not to call her Dad anymore.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Kostgard

[metalchik]

I enjoyed this episode a lot more than the previous one (which almost made me give up on the show) because it actually dealt with Ben and Carly and the issues there instead of spending the episode on Ben's rando college-age friends and their manufactured drama, and because he got to know Dan a little bit better.

 

Dan seems like a nice person and I do hope that he finds someone, though it may be tough going, since it seems he's kinda at a midpoint between male and female and he needs to find someone cool with that. I wonder why the date was such a disaster - because the guy just wasn't cool with where Dan is on the gender spectrum, or did he just see Dan as the focus of some sort of fetish?

 

Mostly I'm okay with Carly's selfishness because I think after living a lie your whole life and then deciding to embrace who you really are takes something of a "I need to be true to me and NOTHING is standing in my way" attitude, even if sometimes people get hurt, but I think stuff like not responding when Ben calls her Dad is a jerk move. I was okay with the letter scene because I think it was the first real taste we got of the pain the transition has caused Ben. He ultimately loves and supports Carly, but he finally said that it's been really hard on him. I hope Carly heard that and didn't just take the victory of Ben agreeing not to call her Dad anymore.

To me, it sounded like Dan's date was indeed focused on a fetish...if you remember, and I'm paraphrasing, Dan said something to Danielle about "not just wanting to get me into bed".  That's the thing that I worry about (well as much as you can worry about someone on a tv show lol) for Dan - trying to find someone that's NOT looking to fulfill one of their fetishes.  

 

I thought I was the only one here that was "ok" with Carly's selfishness.  Yes I do think she is somewhat selfish but she's pretty much lived a lie for 40 some years and it must be freeing to finally get to be who you really are inside.  Her attitude, as you said "nothing can stand it my way" is probably normal for anyone the finally gets to come out from under whatever they've been hiding their whole life.  I'm sure she is tired...tired of years and years of hiding, walking on eggshells around friends and family, keeping pretty dark secrets from everyone and suppressing her true self her whole life. I know for me, arriving in the mid 40s I do feel more of a "life is short, screw what everyone else thinks about my choices" kind of thought process so I can somewhat understand the selfish attitude she has.

 

I also didn't mind the letter so much but do NOT agree with the whole "calling me dad" issue.  To me, that's very selfish.  If you really think about the changes Carly's had to come to terms with while making this change, in no way could it ever be easy.

[Indy]

I really, really like Dan.  And Danielle's mom for that matter (she a good shoulder for Suzy to lean on).  It's got to be very hard for Dan to be essentially trapped between two worlds.  I hope that once Danielle goes to college, he will be more comfortable being himself and living full time as a woman. I also hope he can find someone that is interested in him for him and not as some sort of fetish object.  He seems like a very kind, caring guy. 

 

Carly does come across as selfish at times (especially when compared to Dan) but I do get it. After living your whole life pretending to be someone else and being miserable, I get just putting it all out there and wanting to be you, everyone else be damned. But I do wish she was a little more sensitive towards Ben about the whole "Dad" issue.  I get it, she doesn't want to be called by any sort of male identifying name or pronoun because that's not who she is but it's got to be so hard for a kid to have to change everything like that. Ben's not doing it to be spiteful or stubborn. Sometimes it's probably an accidental slip up (I'd have trouble if my dad wanted me to call him anything but Dad, even if his gender wasn't changing...it's just a habit) and for Carly to ignore him is pretty cold.  To Ben's eye, she is still his dad and he probably has to mourn that loss before he can move on with her being his Carly instead.   But I think it's good that Carly opened up with the letter (sure, maybe it should have been said in a heart to heart conversation but some people are better with words on paper than they are off the cuff). Ben will get there.  

 

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm actually looking forward to the Lathan/Chris story line next week.  It'll be interesting to see how that plays out.  Hopefully with minor roles from Ayton and Brook, both of them still bug me. But Lathan's story is intriguing, especially as he embarks on a relationship.  

[Madding crowd]

I don't mind seeing the story about Lathan/Chris, but I wish the show were more honest with the viewers. This is not a show about Ben and Carly and their life. It is a show about three transgender people and their families. I do not believe Ben just happened to have a girlfriend with a transgender father and just happens to be friends with people in their 20's who happen to have a transgender brother. Being more straightforward with the audience would go a long way with me.

 

I do still like the show and Ben in particular. I also really like Danielle and Daniel, and think Daniel is a great example of being a wonderful parent who tries to do his best for his daughter (I am using him because he still uses this pronoun). If nothing else, I'm watching to see if Daniel will ever find someone who appreciates him/her, and to see if Ben will come around to feeling good about things. 

[Oosala]

I hesitated to post because I'd basically just be repeating everything that's already been said.  I fall in the "Carly is selfish" camp, but that's probably because I'm coming from a place of having lived with an alcoholic for far too long.  Alcoholics lie and they are selfish.  Don't mean to offend but that's my experience.  I know it's a disease but I don't care.

 

Regarding Ben's sister, she's just too much.  I totally agree with the pp who said she's always in theatre mode and it's really tiring.  And her fiancé is really pinging.  HAH!  I said it!

[butterbody]

I hesitated to post because I'd basically just be repeating everything that's already been said. I fall in the "Carly is selfish" camp, but that's probably because I'm coming from a place of having lived with an alcoholic for far too long. Alcoholics lie and they are selfish. Don't mean to offend but that's my experience. I know it's a disease but I don't care.

Regarding Ben's sister, she's just too much. I totally agree with the pp who said she's always in theatre mode and it's really tiring. And her fiancé is really pinging. HAH! I said it!

Fiancee's sexuality is a lot like Sutton's ears. I keep wondering why nobody talks about it.

I died when grandpa asked for a quote for her wedding invitation and she launched into a soliloquy.

Still don't understand why Layton won't come clean. Does he expect conveniently gender neutrally named Chris to just ask do you have a wee wee or a pee pee?

Also Chris, run a brush through that hair. Everyone is dressed like interview with a vampire, but they all look like they have bad breath.

[calliope1975]

Carly comes off like an asshole a lot of the time. I completely understand the challenges with her identity that she has faced, but I'm also leaning towards she might also just be a jerk. 

[RemoteControlFreak]

Does Sutton live in New York or in Chicago?  Why did she say that Thanksgiving was a great time to go back to New York to finalize wedding plans?  Did the show fly in her for a few days earlier in the season and then decide to keep her because the more characters the better on this show?  Or is her relationship with seemingly-gay Kevin not for real? And who has a Romeo and Juliet themed wedding, or a themed anything wedding?

 

Yes, Carly is self-absorbed, but Susy did no favors to her reputation with her slap down in the coffee shop.  She was married to an alcoholic who hid his transgenderism.  Either of these are difficult situations, but put them together and her anger makes sense.  The fact that Carly is now seemingly waltzing on with her life and publicly rejoicing about her new genitalia has got to be infuriating. Still.

 

Sutton can shut up anytime now. She says everything as if she's practicing over-emoting in front of a mirror. She's unwatchable.

 

Latham's web of lies and withholding information is headed for a bad, bad, ending.

 

Also, all the talk of the details of Carly's surgery has me wondering ... what about sexual enjoyment?  She had her penis removed.  Will there be some sort of clitoris?  Does the constructed vagina have the same feeling as the penis from which it was constructed? Did Carly explain this? 

Edited July 28, 2015 by remotecontrolfreak

[CarolMK]

I'm having a hard time believing certain storylines on this show. First of all, Carly and Suzy know damn well what their agreement is on the child support/school fees issue. My brother was divorced and had to pay a set amount for child support but was not ordered to pay for private school or college. I guess maybe he wasn't earning a lot at the time, but he and his ex had an agreement and they stuck to it.

Also, I cannot believe Lathan hasn't mentioned to his new love interest that he is transgender as well. So , he and Chris are both female to male transgender, right? I don't know how long they will wait to find this out. Chris strikes me as very feminine, I would never have guessed him to be a transgender male, but it's much easier to believe with Lathan. 

[RemoteControlFreak]

This show was supposed to be a teen coming to terms with his transgender father. 

 

It's quickly evolved into a story about a heterosexual wedding.

 

And here's a picture of said wedding:

 

Is the middle bridesmaid Brooke, or just someone that looks like her? 

[butterbody]

Does Sutton live in New York or in Chicago? Why did she say that Thanksgiving was a great time to go back to New York to finalize wedding plans? Did the show fly in her for a few days earlier in the season and then decide to keep her because the more characters the better on this show? Or is her relationship with seemingly-gay Kevin not for real? And who has a Romeo and Juliet themed wedding, or a themed anything wedding?

Also, all the talk of the details of Carly's surgery has me wondering ... what about sexual enjoyment? She had her penis removed. Will there be some sort of clitoris? Does the constructed vagina have the same feeling as the penis from which it was constructed? Did Carly explain this?

Ok we're all grown ups here so I'm just gonna say it. You might wanna watch a Disney movie when we're done. The underside of the penis is slit lengthwise and then tucked up into a whole that is created. The penis becomes the labia and all nerves remain intact so there is still sensation, but no clitoris. The doctor said they'd remove the part that caused it to become erect.

>shudders<

[joanne3482]

And if you want more information Wikipedia has a detailed of the surgery. There are also some reddit AMAs out there as well on the topic.

 

 

I'm having a hard time believing certain storylines on this show. First of all, Carly and Suzy know damn well what their agreement is on the child support/school fees issue. My brother was divorced and had to pay a set amount for child support but was not ordered to pay for private school or college. I guess maybe he wasn't earning a lot at the time, but he and his ex had an agreement and they stuck to it.

Also, I cannot believe Lathan hasn't mentioned to his new love interest that he is transgender as well. So , he and Chris are both female to male transgender, right? I don't know how long they will wait to find this out. Chris strikes me as very feminine, I would never have guessed him to be a transgender male, but it's much easier to believe with Lathan. 

Lathan is definitely playing with fire, and the longer it goes on, the more hurt Chris may be. Chris may figure it out. Lathan is definitely putting out signals that there is a secret there, but Chris shared all this with Lathan and Lathan withheld? I would be hurt. It also seemed as though they were shutting the hotel room door for what I can suspect is some sexual activity. Maybe not the whole enchilada but some activity. Depending on if Lathan has had the top surgery or not it will become apparent to Chris either what is there that shouldn't be or a set of rather noticeable scars.

[butterbody]

That's what bothered me. Lathan asked if there was anything Chris wanted to know, as if later he could say, I gave you the opportunity to ask me about it.

[Madding crowd]

Did anyone notice Lathan's Nosferatu fingernails? They were really tiny and pointy. I'm not sure why he doesn't tell Chris about himself, was this the first time they met in person? Chris is kind of interesting. He was born female, prefers to dress and look female, yet identifies as male. 

 

Carly and Suzy in the coffee shop reminded me of friends of mine. Yes, they agree to everything in writing, but that doesn't mean  everyone does what they are supposed to. Then you have to pay an attorney and take them to court if you want to pursue it. Carly still strikes me as selfish and uninvolved. Her issues should not take precedent over parenting her son. JMO, of course.

 

Not interested in Sutton and her over the top way of speaking. I also think her fiancé seems both gay and looks like he could be her brother. Grandpa Ron seems cool, but I'm hoping for less about the corny wedding.

[Kostgard]

I agree that Lathan is just asking for trouble. This "You can ask me anything" BS ain't gonna fly when Chris doesn't know that there is a question he should ask. Chris seems smitten and has been honest about his own trans status. Lathan needs to come clean too. If Chris finds out any other way I hope he kicks his butt. 

 

Also? Lathan, you can't pick your friend up at the airport? Yeah, I get that was probably all done for TV, but seriously - even if you don't have a car, meet your friend at the airport and you can take public transportation together. 

 

I get that Carly can be a bit of a pain and I think Suzy is justified in some of her bitterness, but she isn't exactly covering herself in glory here. She needs to let it go. Her bitterness isn't affecting Carly one bit, and she's just dragging herself down. But at least she just kept her mouth shut when the rest of her family were kinda being jerks about Carly. I get that there is history here, but interesting that many of them thought that Carly was just doing it for attention - something many people have also accused Caitlyn Jenner of. Really? You really think someone would go through all that and make some rather serious, non-reversible changes to their bodies just for a little attention? I'm assuming that is ignorance talking, but still...gross. At least Grandpa Ron was still cool. I like him.

 

But the whole drama about whether or not to invite Carly to the wedding was ridiculous because Sutton already invited her and told her that Ben would escort her down the aisle to her seat. To un-invite her after that would be a seriously cold-hearted jerk move. Suzy shouldn't have been pressuring Sutton about her guest list and Sutton shouldn't have been so wishy-washy about it at all. It should have just been, "Mom, I already invited Carly. She's not in the wedding like you are, but she will be there, and I need you to be an adult about this." Which is basically what she ultimately did, but it shouldn't have taken four episodes to get there. The producers didn't script that one out well.

 

And seeing how many of us are totally confused about where the wedding is taking place (Chicago or New York), the producers haven't scripted that well, either.

 

I did laugh at Ben asking Carly if she was going to have fun with her man bits one last time before the surgery. And I did laugh at his TMI complaints at her Facebook posts. I don't mind someone describing their surgery and recovery, but the taking video footage of her crotch was a bit much. I get that Carly is probably enormously relieved to have lady bits rather than man bits, but take it down a notch, lady.

 

The surgery center seemed a bit "beauty spa in a strip mall" for a place to have major surgery. And she was allowed to have Starbucks the morning of her procedure? I thought you usually had to fast before surgery.

[metalchik]

I need a grandpa Ron in my life!  

 

Everyone has said everything I came here to say...I didn't like the "ask me anything you want" from Lathan b/c I too think it's a cop out for later when Chris does find out.  I wanted to scream just SAY IT!!  

 

Suzi is bitter and that is understandable but it makes me think of that quote about "taking poison and waiting on the other person to die".  Whoever said it's dragging her down is dead on. 

 

I know the majority here think Carly is selfish - but I couldn't help but wonder if there wasn't anyone to go with her to the surgery...maybe there was a friend that didn't want to be on camera.  

 

And yeah I'm done with Sutton.  Get married and get off this show.  You aren't "cutesy" just irritating.

[metalchik]

Edited to delete double post.

Edited July 29, 2015 by metalchik

[Kristen]

" Depending on if Lathan has had the top surgery or not it will become apparent to Chris either what is there that shouldn't be or a set of rather noticeable scars."

 

Not necessarily. If Lathan was able to get treatments to halt puberty and received testosterone therapy, he may never have grown breasts in the first place.

[RemoteControlFreak]

Ok we're all grown ups here so I'm just gonna say it. You might wanna watch a Disney movie when we're done. The underside of the penis is slit lengthwise and then tucked up into a whole that is created. The penis becomes the labia and all nerves remain intact so there is still sensation, but no clitoris. The doctor said they'd remove the part that caused it to become erect.

>shudders<

Thank you for the explanation.  LOL that Carly claimed before the surgery that there would just be "a little discomfort."  

[Orangepop]

 

Carly comes off like an asshole a lot of the time. I completely understand the challenges with her identity that she has faced, but I'm also leaning towards she might also just be a jerk.

When Suzy discussed Ben's school costs with Carly, her attitude of "Nope, sorry, your on your own" seemed unnecessarily adversarial. For me, ignoring Ben when he called her dad is another example of good point, bad presentation.

 

Carly sounds way too much like the Church Lady to me, I expect her to crack a "Well isn't that speeeecial" at any moment lol. Carly's apartment's decor looked Church Lady Chic - I think I remember seeing dowdy doilies, needlepoint, birds and maybe even hummel dolls. It's as if she moved into her grandma's home and didn't change a thing. I imagine Carly's doing the Superior Dance in her head whenever she's talking to Suzy.

 

My heart goes out to Dan. He (didn't he still identify as male? apologies if that's changed) strikes me as compassionate, loving, and truly sensitive of others' feelings. It breaks my heart that he can't find love. I want to launch a Kickstarter campaign "Find Dan a Man" - a nationwide search for the perfect guy who will cherish Dan as the beautiful soul that he is. Who's in? : )

 

On a shallow note, I find Lathan hot. And I think Chris will forgive him - Chris seems very accepting, and he must understand the inner turmoil of revealing this personal truth to others.

 

I hope this doesn't come off as insensitive ... but I don't understand why Chris identifies as male, yet appears so feminine. Even though Lathan has some traditionally feminine markings (blousey shirts, earring, makeup, etc) I was genuinely surprised when he revealed he was born a biological female. Lathan's voice is deep, and he carries himself as a male. But for me, Chris doesn't look interested in the social construct of maleness. (I've been told that being transgender is - in part - a desire to be perceived by the world as male/femaie.) I'm not giving Chris the side-eye - he seems like a compassionate and kind person. I just don't understand why he's a gay male when being a straight female also leads to male sexual partners.

[metalchik]

When Suzy discussed Ben's school costs with Carly, her attitude of "Nope, sorry, your on your own" seemed unnecessarily adversarial. For me, ignoring Ben when he called her dad is another example of good point, bad presentation.

 

Carly sounds way too much like the Church Lady to me, I expect her to crack a "Well isn't that speeeecial" at any moment lol. Carly's apartment's decor looked Church Lady Chic - I think I remember seeing dowdy doilies, needlepoint, birds and maybe even hummel dolls. It's as if she moved into her grandma's home and didn't change a thing. I imagine Carly's doing the Superior Dance in her head whenever she's talking to Suzy.

 

My heart goes out to Dan. He (didn't he still identify as male? apologies if that's changed) strikes me as compassionate, loving, and truly sensitive of others' feelings. It breaks my heart that he can't find love. I want to launch a Kickstarter campaign "Find Dan a Man" - a nationwide search for the perfect guy who will cherish Dan as the beautiful soul that he is. Who's in? : )

 

On a shallow note, I find Lathan hot. And I think Chris will forgive him - Chris seems very accepting, and he must understand the inner turmoil of revealing this personal truth to others.

 

I hope this doesn't come off as insensitive ... but I don't understand why Chris identifies as male, yet appears so feminine. Even though Lathan has some traditionally feminine markings (blousey shirts, earring, makeup, etc) I was genuinely surprised when he revealed he was born a biological female. Lathan's voice is deep, and he carries himself as a male. But for me, Chris doesn't look interested in the social construct of maleness. (I've been told that being transgender is - in part - a desire to be perceived by the world as male/femaie.) I'm not giving Chris the side-eye - he seems like a compassionate and kind person. I just don't understand why he's a gay male when being a straight female also leads to male sexual partners.

I love Dan!  He really is a sweet sweet person.  I hope he finds someone too!

 

i want to know the same stuff as you about Chris....I'm trying hard to get it but I really don't.  Of course it's not important if "I" get it or not I suppose but I am curious.

[Orangepop]

 

i want to know the same stuff as you about Chris....I'm trying hard to get it but I really don't.  Of course it's not important if "I" get it or not I suppose but I am curious.

I agree, irl I would never be nosy about something like this. But because he's choosing to appear on a television show that focuses on transgender identity issues, I feel that I at least have the right to be curious.

[RemoteControlFreak]

I hope this doesn't come off as insensitive ... but I don't understand why Chris identifies as male, yet appears so feminine. Even though Lathan has some traditionally feminine markings (blousey shirts, earring, makeup, etc) I was genuinely surprised when he revealed he was born a biological female. Lathan's voice is deep, and he carries himself as a male. But for me, Chris doesn't look interested in the social construct of maleness. (I've been told that being transgender is - in part - a desire to be perceived by the world as male/femaie.) I'm not giving Chris the side-eye - he seems like a compassionate and kind person. I just don't understand why he's a gay male when being a straight female also leads to male sexual partners.

I think this is a great question/observation.

 

Despite my question, above, about the exact nature of Carly's surgery, I know a bit about the topic.  

 

The mainstream portrayal of transgenderism that we are seeing on TV with Carly, Caitlyn Jenner, I am Jazz, Laverne Cox, etc. is based on a very simple binary view of gender identity and expression, especially among transgender women. The very simplistic view from Jazz and her parents is "I have a boy body and a girl brain." And girl brain, for Jazz, Caitlyn, Carly etc." seems very much defined by liking the color pink and wanting to wear dresses.

 

In reality gender identity and expression is far more varied.  There are people like Laverne Cox and Chaz Bono who adopt an extreme feminine or masculine appearance and attire -- Laverne in her bleached hair, skin tight dresses and heels and Chaz with his beard and suits and plaid shirts -- but there are a lot of people who fall somewhere in the vast middle.

[Indy]

In reality gender identity and expression is far more varied.  There are people like Laverne Cox and Chaz Bono who adopt an extreme feminine or masculine appearance and attire -- Laverne in her bleached hair, skin tight dresses and heels and Chaz with his beard and suits and plaid shirts -- but there are a lot of people who fall somewhere in the vast middle.

 

Though I do wonder with trans individuals if there is more of a tendency to maybe overcompensate to prove to the public that they are really the gender they say they are.  Like, to use the above people as examples, if Chaz Bono tries to look the super manly lumberjack man to remove any possible assumption that he has any feminine traits and Laverne Cox goes the hyper feminine, tight dress, big boobs route to look very female.  Or is this just how they prefer to dress (like many men and women out there do).

[Glade]

I think the 'is Carly coming to the wedding' storyline was 100% fake...she already invited her and defined what role she would have.  How passive aggressive and ridiculous it was to keep bringing it up over and over again--Suzy CHOSE to bring this person into her daughters life, but now that she's an adult, it's her choice about whether to have a relationship with Carly and how to navigate that relationship.   Practically drooling with glee at the thought of getting your ex-husband uninvited to a wedding is so petty.

 

I also can't stand all the ex in laws bringing Carly's transition into their own little hatefest.  If you don't like Carly, keep it about those past events, not her gender transition.   Thankfully in a few years Ben will be 18 and hopefully Carly won't have to deal with his bitter ex-wife (move on!) or her family anymore.  I like Carly, and don't think she is inappropriately selfish, nor do I label her because of some past substance abuse issues that I don't even remember hearing about on the show.  

Edited August 1, 2015 by Glade

[Madding crowd]

Carly did talk about her alcoholism and being an uninvolved parent on the show. I believe she is trying to rectify things, but it will take awhile for both Ben and Suzy to feel understanding. I don't hate Suzy either; she lived a lie for twenty years which was not by her choice. She is now finishing up raising her son alone, and her son is suffering from the loss of the dad he knew. I think the point of the show was supposed to be how the people in Ben's family, find their way with the new reality. Unfortunately, the story is muddled by so many different characters. Yes, you are right that Carly's obligations to Ben will end when he is 18, but Suzy will still be helping him finish high school and college. You can't just give up being a parent, although it seems like Carly is kind of trying to at times. 

 

I had to laugh at the picture of Sutton's wedding. Of course she had a gigantic paper scroll with the Romeo and Juliet quote. Of course it looked more like a wedding of a 18 year old then a 30 year old. 

[pasdetrois]

I cannot stand Carly. She's a narcissist who is not thinking of her son. She's coolly smug and dismissive. She elicits confidences and pretends to listen to him but doesn't actually offer any empathy or compassion. If you don't fall in line with her determined vision of her new life, she cuts you off. She steers all difficult conversations back to herself.

 

ETA: I have the impression that she has checked out of her relationship with her family and has moved on emotionally and was going through the motions on TV while gaining publicity for her new status in life. And I think the transgender situation was a bit of a red herring - if she was a depressed alcoholic for many years, then she had problems dealing with relationships long before the transgender phase. I think this history is why Ben's family speculates Carly will not be happy despite the surgery and transformation.

 

My neighbor transgendered and left behind a former wife and children (moved far away but pays child support). The former wife has been very angry and bitter for several years now. I understand it, but like all of life's devastations  one has to move on at some point. I hope Ben's parents find peace and happiness.

 

And I liked Dan and his family. I wish them the best also.

 

All of these folks were quite polished and camera-ready. Did Ben's actor sister hook everyone up with the series?

Edited August 3, 2015 by pasdetrois

[Madding crowd]

This was a very emotional and sad episode. I was so sorry to hear Carly had a heart attack, so soon after her surgery. I wish her the best and it seems like she is doing ok (by the previews for next week). I'm actually enjoying this show much more that I am Cait, mostly because these are everyday people who live in everyday houses.

 

Ben's new girlfriend is pretty and I think he feels an attraction to her that maybe he didn't feel for Danielle. I do think it a bit strange that his tutor is always going places with him and that she told the one woman she was his chaperone. He needs to get his license so he can begin to drive himself. Sutton as usual, was over the top with her reactions to everything.

 

I thought the ending montage seemed really sad and it made me worry about Carly but hopefully she is fine. I can't say I really like her as a person, but for Ben's sake I want her to be well so they can work on their relationship. Loved Lathan's vampire outfit. I wonder how he makes a living (besides the show). Sadly, this show probably won't be renewed and yet we will get more seasons of Caitlyn Jenner and her fashions.

[Oosala]

The heart attack was a huge shock and I'm glad they clarified that it was from years of drinking and smoking and not as a result of the reassignment surgery.  It seemed to draw the family together anyway, even if that's only a temporary thing.

 

The Lathan/Chris relationship is kind of weird because it seems so tenuous, like there's a big reveal about Lathan that hasn't happened yet.  But we don't know the details about that (maybe it HAS happened) and they do seem very happy, so good on them.

I hesitate to say this but Sutton's reaction to her fiancé's Dad's cancer seemed forced and, as usual, theatrical.  Maybe because what was filmed was a reenactment of the actual phone call, or maybe because ... it's Sutton.

[Orangepop]

This was a sad episode. Carly's heart attack came out of nowhere, a huge dose of real life dropped into an otherwise scripted show. At one point Carly even apologized, saying something along the lines of "sorry for derailing everything." I'm glad she felt a sense of peace when she thought she was going to die - that serenity seemed to stay with her. I wonder if this tragic event will change her attitude toward others ... probably not.

 

Ben's girlfriend is gorgeous, reminds me of Scarlett Johannson. She seems a little out of Ben's league - I wonder if the fact that he's being filmed for a television show made him a bit more attractive in her eyes lol

 

 

I hesitate to say this but Sutton's reaction to her fiancé's Dad's cancer seemed forced and, as usual, theatrical.  Maybe because what was filmed was a reenactment of the actual phone call, or maybe because ... it's Sutton.

Thank you for saying this! I completely agree ... when she walked into Suzy's house and covered her face, it came off as really forced. I feel like she's using this entire series as an audition. Suzy's reaction to her daughter's emotional breakdown seemed a bit unphased - she's probably used to her dramatics. My heart goes out to Kevin's father and his family. Leukemia took my mother's life - it sucks.

 

Yeah, what the hell with Lathan and Chris moving in together without us knowing whether Lathan shared his secret? Yes, it's personal, but they milked the hell out of that storyline, so I think we have a right to know. I'm pretty sure Chris will understand, but still ...

 

 

 

[Kristen]

So, according to Carly on Twitter, all of this happened in January, and she had a quadruple bypass in March. She's still doing cardiac rehab, and she's doing well. Thank goodness. My question is, she'd already had bottom surgery and Adam's Apple shaving, but they didn't do any pre-op testing like a stress test or an EKG? If they had, they would've caught her heart issues. I'm no expert, but someone with that level of blockage would proooobably not pass a stress test, and someone with her history of drinking and smoking would almost definitely have to have some kind of test like that. My grandfather had to postpone a knee replacement because he failed his pre-op stress test, and he only ended up needing a double bypass. So, I dunno, maybe Carly's got a lawsuit on her hands.

 

Anyway, I've got to admit Sutton has grown on me a *little*. I really couldn't stand her in the first 4-5 episodes. Don't get me started on the Romeo & Juliet wedding (THEY KILL THEMSELVES! IT'S NOT ROMANTIC!!!).

Edited August 6, 2015 by Kristen

[pasdetrois]

Two members of my family had normal EKGs and other tests that were negative, but they had severe heart attacks not long after. In one case the heart attacks were "silent" and only discovered when a different doctor did an EKG during a routine office checkup. This family member's blocked arteries were not revealed by the earlier tests. (Note: he was a former smoker, like Carly.)

 

One family member died and the other walked out of the cardiologist's office and had a quadruple bypass a month later. I was shocked that there was a month's delay but after further tests that was the decision.

 

In Carly's case I think they did the stent as a temporary intervention, followed by a later bypass.

[Kristen]

Yeah, not every case in the same, and I'm not a cardiologist, so I was curious about that. Ah, the human body.

[Madding crowd]

This really is a sweet show and I enjoy watching it a lot. I'm guessing it won't be renewed because it's not super dramatic and Carly and Sally Dan are just average people, not olympic athletes. I'm glad Carly made it to the wedding and I loved her dress. Ben seems like a really great kid and I think his parents are doing something right. Lathan looked very handsome and happy too. 

[Kristen]

Okay, I'll admit to being teary-eyed during more than one episode, and at the end of the finale...but I'm a wedding crier, it doesn't matter who's getting married; even Sutton.

 

Honestly, aside from a few annoyances, like Sutton being way over-dramatic almost every time she was on screen, some people going unchecked after saying some nasty things about Carly in reference to her gender identity, and the over-produced, awkward moments with Ben's friends, I liked this show. It's sweet, and it tackles some important issues, and they all seem like nice people, and as much as I applaud Caitlyn Jenner for being so public about her transition and such, and for some of its problems, I liked this show more than I Am Cait, which will most likely go on as long as E! can drag it out while this one probably won't be renewed. *sigh*

[butterbody]

Watching this last episode, all I could think about was how much I loved Sally Dan, and how much better it would have been if they had centered it around her instead of self centered Carly and Sutton & her gay friend getting married for their big audition.

Sallydan is just such a sweet endearing soul, and they raised a kind child while managing to remain friends. I want more of their story.

[joanne3482]

Watching this last episode, all I could think about was how much I loved Sally Dan, and how much better it would have been if they had centered it around her instead of self centered Carly and Sutton & her gay friend getting married for their big audition.

Sallydan is just such a sweet endearing soul, and they raised a kind child while managing to remain friends. I want more of their story.

Definitely. I think Sallydan's story is one that is easier for some of the cis world to accept too. If the purpose of these shows (this one, I Am Jazz, I Am Cait) is education and making the general public feel comfortable with a concept that is mostly outside their wheelhouse, Sallydan presents a gentle look without being a Kardashian. We saw her struggle with the whole process and worry how it would affect her daughter and former wife, which I loved because that IS a factor and I think one of the reasons I didn't take to Carly.  I can understand on a superficial level that Carly was desperately unhappy and now that she gets to be who she is, she wants to go all in.  But the way it was presented made Carly seem more selfish than Sallydan.  Carly never appeared to care about Ben or Suzy's feelings regarding her transition and seemed to think her transition existed in a bubble.  Sallydan and her family were easily my favorite part of the show.  I warmed to Lathan and Brooke. I wish we had gotten more from them because as Sallydan said, they are becoming adults in a very different world than Sallydan and Carly.    

 

I definitely got the series finale feeling from last night's episode which is a bit of a bummer because I would like more from some of the folks on the show. At the same time we'd probably (as remotecontrolfreak noted) end up with a show that was supposed to be about a kid coming to terms with his transgender parent but is really somehow about a heterosexual newly married couple. 

[Kristen]

Watching this last episode, all I could think about was how much I loved Sally Dan, and how much better it would have been if they had centered it around her instead of self centered Carly and Sutton & her gay friend getting married for their big audition.

Sallydan is just such a sweet endearing soul, and they raised a kind child while managing to remain friends. I want more of their story.

 

Yes! Sallydan is great! Seriously. A huge sweetheart. When you follow her on Twitter, she tweets you a nice personal message thanking you for the follow. Which is just the cutest thing. I wish she'd been on the show more. I like her relationship with Danielle. 

 

I like Carly fine, but sometimes she rubs me the wrong way. I think it's a personality thing, and she and Sallydan have very different personalities, which makes for an interesting contrast. Carly does sometimes come across as selfish because she's full-steam ahead with her transition, her transness is not new to her, but definitely is to Ben and the rest of the family, so it feels like she's just bowling everybody over. Though, we must remember that we're coming into a story already in progress, so we only know what happened before the show in snippets. Meanwhile, Sallydan has been veeeeerrrry slowly transitioning for years, which seems very fitting with the aspects of her personality that we've seen. I don't necessarily think that Carly is just disregarding her family's feelings (well, except for the part when she started taking hormones without telling Suzy. Yikes.), I feel like she acknowledges them, but is much bolder than Sallydan, and is pretty much just, "Look, I tried to hide this for 40+ years, it made me miserable, and that wasn't fair to you. Doing this will enable me to be a happier person, and a better parent/friend/etc." Sometimes you have to put yourself first so you can subsequently put others first, ya know? I applaud Sallydan for slowing her transition to protect Danielle, but not everyone's journey is the same, and that doesn't, by contrast, make Carly's path the wrong one. Could she have done things a bit differently? Probably. Could she have gone about things much worse? Oh, God, yes. The scene in the last episode where Ben gives her the picture he took of her that was at his gallery, made me teary-eyed because he kept saying that she's so happy now, and she was never like that before. In the end, I think the show was a little more about Ben's journey to acceptance, and I found his evolution very touching. 

[StayingAfterSunday]

Carly comes off like an asshole a lot of the time. I completely understand the challenges with her identity that she has faced, but I'm also leaning towards she might also just be a jerk. 

 

Yes to this.  Carly's emotions seem so shallow as to appear non-existent and her former habits do suggest she's always been one to be on the self-indulgent spectrum, so to speak.  Maybe she and Suzie's marriage was one based on similar life styles, i.e. drinking, maybe?  Carly clearly stated that she never enjoyed sexual intercourse [with a woman].

Did anyone notice Lathan's Nosferatu fingernails? They were really tiny and pointy. I'm not sure why he doesn't tell Chris about himself, was this the first time they met in person? Chris is kind of interesting. He was born female, prefers to dress and look female, yet identifies as male. 

 

Carly and Suzy in the coffee shop reminded me of friends of mine. Yes, they agree to everything in writing, but that doesn't mean  everyone does what they are supposed to. Then you have to pay an attorney and take them to court if you want to pursue it. Carly still strikes me as selfish and uninvolved. Her issues should not take precedent over parenting her son. JMO, of course.

 

Not interested in Sutton and her over the top way of speaking. I also think her fiancé seems both gay and looks like he could be her brother. Grandpa Ron seems cool, but I'm hoping for less about the corny wedding.

 

I noticed those peculiar fingernails, too.  I also thought Lathan did sound very much like a male when he spoke; I also thought his body type appeared more masculine than feminine.  What had me confused, though, was his exquisitely tiny facial features which screamed "XX XX XX XX."   I could not reconcile that tiny, refined nose and mouth and delicate facial bone structure with the rest of him.  (for what it's worth, Lathan Toland's bio on Wikipedia and IMDb lists him as "an American actor" from Evansville who was cast in one independent film before "co-starring" with Ben on "Becoming Us." He's also listed as a musician and artist, and his height is given as 5.6 and a half inches.)

 

By the time Chris was added to this strange assembly of characters, it began to strike me as more of a freak show than anything else - a very contrived one, at that.  For that matter, I'm not convinced Chris really identifes as a man.  In the end, though, I'm left wondering why these two don't just come to a resolution and become lesbians.  They are both female, after all.  The gender who's who can come later. 

 

When Suzy discussed Ben's school costs with Carly, her attitude of "Nope, sorry, your on your own" seemed unnecessarily adversarial. For me, ignoring Ben when he called her dad is another example of good point, bad presentation.

 

Carly sounds way too much like the Church Lady to me, I expect her to crack a "Well isn't that speeeecial" at any moment lol. Carly's apartment's decor looked Church Lady Chic - I think I remember seeing dowdy doilies, needlepoint, birds and maybe even hummel dolls. It's as if she moved into her grandma's home and didn't change a thing. I imagine Carly's doing the Superior Dance in her head whenever she's talking to Suzy.

 

My heart goes out to Dan. He (didn't he still identify as male? apologies if that's changed) strikes me as compassionate, loving, and truly sensitive of others' feelings. It breaks my heart that he can't find love. I want to launch a Kickstarter campaign "Find Dan a Man" - a nationwide search for the perfect guy who will cherish Dan as the beautiful soul that he is. Who's in? : )

 

On a shallow note, I find Lathan hot. And I think Chris will forgive him - Chris seems very accepting, and he must understand the inner turmoil of revealing this personal truth to others.

 

I hope this doesn't come off as insensitive ... but I don't understand why Chris identifies as male, yet appears so feminine. Even though Lathan has some traditionally feminine markings (blousey shirts, earring, makeup, etc) I was genuinely surprised when he revealed he was born a biological female. Lathan's voice is deep, and he carries himself as a male. But for me, Chris doesn't look interested in the social construct of maleness. (I've been told that being transgender is - in part - a desire to be perceived by the world as male/femaie.) I'm not giving Chris the side-eye - he seems like a compassionate and kind person. I just don't understand why he's a gay male when being a straight female also leads to male sexual partners.

 

I, too, find it so unconvincing  that Chris identifies as a male.  I would find it impossible to refer to her by a masculine pronoun. 

Edited December 11, 2015 by StayingAfterSunday