The NBA

[AimingforYoko]

I don't know how many of you guys invest in the market, but I never make a move without taking this guy's advice.

[emma675]

Maybe I'm confused but I thought the NBA wasn't allowing fans in arenas just yet? All of the games I've watched this season had empty seats until tonight in Indiana. They've got a decent sized crowd watching the Pacers vs the 76ers. It's the first time I've seen fans in seats since this time last year.

[emmawoodhouse]

I've seen fans at Utah. 

[Growsonwalls]

Here's an article about how the NBA misses the, like, totally chill and cool Klay Thompson.

[LexieLily]

I can't be the only one to think that the NBA's plan to have the All-Star Game (maybe even the 3-Point Shootout and the Dunk Contest) is just asking for trouble. They are having enough trouble with postponing games and having to reschedule as it is. 

[xaxat]

I'm agnostic on the wisdom of letting fans in arenas (I sure wouldn't go.) But why the hell are they allowing people to sit courtside? There was a non-zero possibility that a Real Housewife could have given LeBron covid! Two hundred level and up people!

The Nets' court is so weird. The grey charcoal color really makes the players stand out in relief.  I like the Jay Z theme TNT is going with for tonight's music.

Edited February 3, 2021 by xaxat

[emma675]

I saw an article today that said only 10 teams are allowing fans in their arenas. That just seems risky to me, in the game I watched (Pacers vs 76ers, it was an amazing 4th quarter) the fans they showed were eating, drinking, and cheering with their masks off. It seems like Covid could spread like crazy in that environment. 

[cambridgeguy]

13 hours ago, LexieLily said:

I can't be the only one to think that the NBA's plan to have the All-Star Game (maybe even the 3-Point Shootout and the Dunk Contest) is just asking for trouble. They are having enough trouble with postponing games and having to reschedule as it is. 

You're hardly the only one.  Gathering all of your best players for a meaningless exhibition?  Sure, name the roster but then do something like what the NFL did for the Pro Bowl. 

[Growsonwalls]

Bill Russell got his vaccine.

 

[LexieLily]

On 2/3/2021 at 5:49 AM, cambridgeguy said:

You're hardly the only one.  Gathering all of your best players for a meaningless exhibition?  Sure, name the roster but then do something like what the NFL did for the Pro Bowl. 

It is official now, but De'Aaron Fox thinks it's stupid.

He's not wrong. I get that the NBA is desperate to recoup money but what type of money is the All-Star Game bringing in if there are limited or no fans in the arena? It's always been a glorified exhibition game with no defense so why on earth would you risk getting fifty or so players and coaches together in one place? Make no mistake the last thing I want is for this to be a superspreader event and even one person to be infected but it would serve the union right if something like that happened and multiple team's star players were in self-isolation for two weeks.

[Growsonwalls]

I agree. I'd rather see these players healthy than for them to get sick in some All-Star weekend. Right now the league actually is in a sweet spot in terms of many of the flagship players are not injured (Klay Thompson is an exception). You've got an interesting competition in the East with the Bucks, 76'ers, and Nets, and in the West with the Lakers, Clippers, and Jazz. Let's just keep that going. 

And for every NBA player that got covid and was fine there seems to be some like Russell Westbrook that have some long-term effects.

[LexieLily]

Woj is saying now that during the All-Star Break, players (presumably meaning the ones not invited to the ASW) are permitted to travel within the United States, but not internationally, and they must stay in private accommodations. I only foresee this going badly. 

[emma675]

I feel like the rate of players out on Covid protocol is going to skyrocket in the weeks after the All Star game. This is just asking for trouble. 

[mojoween]

I’m confused, ESPN.

De’aaron Fox - The idea of playing in an All-Star game is stupid but if I get voted in I have to play because you get fined if you don’t, but this is a dumb idea.

PJ Carlesimo - I don’t think an All-Star game is wise but it seems like the players want it, and usually what the players want, they get.

So which is it?

*Edit - apparently LeBron also said the idea is crazy.  I can now only intuit that PJ got some bad intel.

Edited February 5, 2021 by mojoween

[emma675]

Can players opt out of playing in the All Star game? I get that some probably have legit injuries and can't play but I've never heard if they can say "thanks for the honor, but I'm not traveling during a global pandemic to play in a game that basically means nothing at this point."

[emmawoodhouse]

 

[LexieLily]

7 hours ago, emma675 said:

Can players opt out of playing in the All Star game? I get that some probably have legit injuries and can't play but I've never heard if they can say "thanks for the honor, but I'm not traveling during a global pandemic to play in a game that basically means nothing at this point."

Durant's situation tonight: anyone want to explain?

Edited February 6, 2021 by LexieLily

[emmawoodhouse]

He didn't start because they were checking contact tracing. Then he was cleared to play. That is, until the league pulled him. Looks like he won't travel to Philly for their game tomorrow.

eta The tweet is in my time zone, west coast.

Edited February 6, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[LexieLily]

15 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

He didn't start because they were checking contact tracing. Then he was cleared to play. That is, until the league pulled him. Looks like he won't travel to Philly for their game tomorrow.

The people on the broadcast said that the person Durant interacted with today came back with a positive test, which was why he was pulled. Yet he played in the game for one/two quarters. Don't the contact tracing rules mean that Durant thus exposed the entire Nets team as well as Toronto, so they should ALL be in the self-isolation protocol?

[emmawoodhouse]

I'm perplexed as to who allowed him to play at all? Was that the Nets' call?

[LexieLily]

7 hours ago, emma675 said:

Can players opt out of playing in the All Star game? I get that some probably have legit injuries and can't play but I've never heard if they can say "thanks for the honor, but I'm not traveling during a global pandemic to play in a game that basically means nothing at this point."

So far Fox, Wall, LeBron, Harden, and now Giannis have publicly said that they don't understand why they are having the game and aren't excited to play in it. This isn't going to go well.

[cambridgeguy]

Per the CBA attendance at the All Star game is mandatory unless you're injured or the commissioner OKs your reason for being absent.  I don't think Adam Silver wants to be in a position where he denies players the Covid excuse because the league wants to fill their coffers.

[emma675]

I wonder if the NBA Player's Association will get involved?

[LexieLily]

2 hours ago, emma675 said:

I wonder if the NBA Player's Association will get involved?

It might make things interesting if they did. You'd think that CP3 would have known his buddy LeBron felt this strongly about the game. 

[DoctorAtomic]

What are they going to do if a player flat out refuses? If I am under contract with the Jazz, and I say I don't want to take the risk because my obligation is to the organization, what? A fine? ok. 

[LexieLily]

Six-day quarantine for Durant, the league says. The rest of Brooklyn and Toronto, people that Durant played with and breathed all over for at least a quarter and a half last night, are permitted to play their games.

Make it make sense, NBA. 

[xaxat]

I am sooo tired of Van Gundy/Jackson's "That's no foul! Back when I played/coached it wasn't a foul unless you drew blood!" schtick.

ETA

Quote

Make it make sense, NBA. 

Over in the NFL thread I posted an article on the science behind the development of their league protocols. I suspect the NBA is like them in that there is a lot of good research forming their decisions that we aren't aware of.

Edited February 7, 2021 by xaxat

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, xaxat said:

I am sooo tired of Van Gundy/Jackson's "That's no foul! Back when I played/coached it wasn't a foul unless you drew blood!" schtick.

That's true, but an 82-78 professional basketball game just isn't a good product. I don't quite get this premise because the 80s featured scoring because players shot well and moved in transition, then the 90s was some type of Highlander whatever, and now it's about the movement and shooting. It's been a good game for the last decade. 

[Growsonwalls]

22 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

That's true, but an 82-78 professional basketball game just isn't a good product. I don't quite get this premise because the 80s featured scoring because players shot well and moved in transition, then the 90s was some type of Highlander whatever, and now it's about the movement and shooting. It's been a good game for the last decade. 

I get really tired of "_____ is soft, and wouldn't have made it in my day" talk. I would have liked to see anyone in any era try to defend, say, a Kevin Durant. 

[DoctorAtomic]

They'd probably push him around a little more, but I think he'd develop a decent high post game and just blow people off the block. 

One thing I will say about 'back then' is that I would like the hand check to be reinstated. 

[Growsonwalls]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

They'd probably push him around a little more, but I think he'd develop a decent high post game and just blow people off the block. 

One thing I will say about 'back then' is that I would like the hand check to be reinstated. 

I have mixed feelings. In a sport that is already one of the most injury-prone this will cause even more injuries. One thing about the hand-checking era was how short most careers were. People don't remember that Larry Bird and Isiah Thomas were pretty much done for in their early 30's. 

[cambridgeguy]

8 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

I have mixed feelings. In a sport that is already one of the most injury-prone this will cause even more injuries. One thing about the hand-checking era was how short most careers were. People don't remember that Larry Bird and Isiah Thomas were pretty much done for in their early 30's. 

That's partially because there wasn't nearly the same emphasis on fitness, load management, etc.   Bird was a borderline cripple after 1988 and in his last 3 seasons he still averaged 37+ minutes a game.  Contrast that with Kawhi, who gets to take multiple games off and has an unofficial limit on his minutes.

[DoctorAtomic]

Nutrition too. Bird could have shifted his game as more of a spot up shooter too, later into his career

I'm only talking hand checking as a way guys got defensive positioning. Not grabbing and holding. 

 

[Growsonwalls]

Kawhi Leonard is a special case -- his load management pre-conditions caused tension in every team he's been on. The other flagship stars of teams are expected to play pretty much every night -- Lebron. AD. Steph. Durant. Harden. Damian Lillard. Donovan Mitchell. 

I think it's more like knowledge of nutrition, conditioning, rehab, and the way coaches treat rookies has changed. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I thought a good amount don't play back to back though. 

[Growsonwalls]

41 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I thought a good amount don't play back to back though. 

No they do. The difference is they don't play 48 minutes anymore. Modern NBA trusts the bench and rotation players to pull their weight. In the old days the starting five and maybe the sixth man got minutes, but flagship stars like MJ or Magic were supposed to play with very little rest.

I also think that bench and rotation players have improved in the modern NBA. A lot of bench players could be starters. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I think the increase of bench players' contributions are a benefit, and it makes coaching/matchups more challenging. 

Players like Jordan and Kobe though, you can see playing 48 because they were monsters. Kemp too. Someone like Bird would have been better served by managing minutes. 

 

[Growsonwalls]

4 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I think the increase of bench players' contributions are a benefit, and it makes coaching/matchups more challenging. 

Players like Jordan and Kobe though, you can see playing 48 because they were monsters. Kemp too. Someone like Bird would have been better served by managing minutes. 

 

Yeah I like the fact that most NBA teams have a strong bench and you have to worry not just about defending the starters buts the bench players. I also think it improves team chemistry when all 12 guys can go on and contribute. 

[Danny Franks]

On 2/8/2021 at 4:01 AM, Growsonwalls said:

I get really tired of "_____ is soft, and wouldn't have made it in my day" talk. I would have liked to see anyone in any era try to defend, say, a Kevin Durant. 

Well, the likes of Charles Oakley and Joe Dumars would have done so by practically assaulting him on the court. The "soft" thing is irrelevant because players aren't allowed to get away with shit like that any more. Who cares how tough a player is, physically, when it's a no contact sport?

Really, the question should be, 'how would the less gifted but "tough" players of earlier eras have coped in today's NBA?" Because I tend to think a lot of them would struggle badly to even keep up with the likes of Durant, Curry, Embiid etc.

On 2/8/2021 at 8:02 PM, Growsonwalls said:

No they do. The difference is they don't play 48 minutes anymore. Modern NBA trusts the bench and rotation players to pull their weight. In the old days the starting five and maybe the sixth man got minutes, but flagship stars like MJ or Magic were supposed to play with very little rest.

Yeah, the sixth man tag was such a big thing in the 90s - Starks, Kerr, Kukoc etc - back when teams had five really good players, and a sixth one was the difference maker.

Now, with the tactical rotations and different team compositions for different situations, any squad with less than eight guys they can trust to defend and/or provide scoring is considered a team that won't get anywhere in the playoffs. They still give out the Sixth Man of the Year award, but the fact that two players on the same team - Lou Williams and Montrezl Harrell - have won it for the last three years is evidence enough that it's really a 'best non-starting player' award.

Anyway, Derrick Rose is back in New York, for the price of a barely used Dennis Smith Jr and a second round pick. I'm guessing the next move will be to trade Elfrid Payton away and have Rose mentor Immanuel Quickley for the rest of the season, to see if that unheralded rookie is a flash in the pan or not (it's New York, so the betting odds obviously favour the former).

Edited February 9, 2021 by Danny Franks

[Growsonwalls]

38 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

Well, the likes of Charles Oakley and Joe Dumars would have done so by practically assaulting him on the court. The "soft" thing is irrelevant because players aren't allowed to get away with shit like that any more. Who cares how tough a player is, physically, when it's a no contact sport?

Really, the question should be, 'how would the less gifted but "tough" players of earlier eras have coped in today's NBA?" Because I tend to think a lot of them would struggle badly to even keep up with the likes of Durant, Curry, Embiid etc.

I didn't enjoy the rugged slugfests that some of the 90s games could become: where the final score was 81-75 and "defense" often meant hard fouls. I also think some players might have extended their careers in the modern NBA -- Larry Bird is a great example. He was a sharp shooter but those long-range sniper shots weren't encouraged in his era and he was injury prone. Also super injury-prone players like Penny Hardaway could have extended their careers. I mean in the modern NBA Shaun Livingston could come back and have a decent career.

But I also think that many of those "tough" players would have been trained differently and thus had different skill sets. Like I once saw a show where Dennis Rodman played some amateurs and he actually was a decent shooter. In his day his role was to be that tough defender/rebounder. Today I think he might have trained himself to be a better shooter and more of an all-around player. 

As for Derrick Rose ... that's another injury-prone player. I wish him well. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Rodman was always fine with who he was. He'd still be great now. He might have developed a better mid range shot, but I think he'd still be rebounding like a hoover. 

Oakley would be a complete waste. He'd get thrown in for 2 or 3 minutes here and there but there's no way he could get up and down the court with the likes of a Durant. 

They'd probably put him in set plays where there was a set stoppage. 

[Growsonwalls]

One person who might not have done so well in today's NBA was Isiah Thomas. While the pint-sized, tiny-but-tough point guards live on (Chris Paul, Kyrie Irving, Damian Lillard, Kyle Lowry, Donovan Mitchell are not tall by even regular man standards) I don't think IT could have been as great without the Bad Boys basically mauling other teams night after night. He wasn't that great of a shooter which modern point guards are expected to be. He might have adjusted his play but I don't think he'd be the dominant point guard if he's playing against Steph Curry or Damian Lilllard.

I think OVERALL the game has evolved in a positive way. For one, having an 8 or 9 man rotation instead of a 6 man rotation means that the raging assholes are mostly a thing of the past. When there's a whole other five that can pull their weight with the starting five I think it forces more teammate respect. Those guys on the bench are really damned good too and can save the day. 

[DoctorAtomic]

He used to take shots at players and hide behind Lambier. That wouldn't fly today. And you're expecting production out of the point guard. He didn't run the floor nearly as well as he would need to now. 

[mojoween]

Adam, leave the Mavericks alone.  God.

[xaxat]

 

[Growsonwalls]

So what do you guys think of the All Star voting?

https://www.nba.com/news/nets-durant-lakers-james-lead-first-fan-returns-of-nba-all-star-voting-2021

Pretty much who I'd expect, though i'd say that Klay Thompson is a little ridiculous considering he's out for the season, and Russell Westbrook is also having a rough season. 

 

[Magog]

18 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

So what do you guys think of the All Star voting?

https://www.nba.com/news/nets-durant-lakers-james-lead-first-fan-returns-of-nba-all-star-voting-2021

Pretty much who I'd expect, though i'd say that Klay Thompson is a little ridiculous considering he's out for the season, and Russell Westbrook is also having a rough season. 

I find the All Star voting to be very meh & nap-inducing. Its pretty much like the NFL Pro Bowl voting. The only difference is that fans don't get to vote who gets to be in the NFL Pro Bowl.

Its basically just another excuse for ESPN to talk about LeBron, KD (ugh), & praise their man, Stephen Curry. 

[Growsonwalls]

It's the amazing Bill Russell's 87th birthday. He still has the cackle.

 

[xaxat]

I came across this in Rex Chapman's twitter feed and I'm so confused.

 

[Growsonwalls]

Another day, another ominous injury report: A. Davis is getting an MRI for something related to his Achilles. Hopefully it's not a tear. Those are the worst.

EYA: I'm stealing this from reddit. This is clever:

Quote

 

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DameTimeTM should not be taken by centers, players with low 3-point percentages, or Paul George. It does not guarantee team victory, and should not be taken before the 4th quarter. Side effects may include increased shot percentage, NBA All Star appearances, and the tingling feeling of ice in your veins. If you experience any of these side effects, continue to take DameTimeTM during each game.

DameTime. Because everyone deserves to feel like a hero.

 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Growsonwalls