Online Dating: Swiping Right Or Left?

[Irlandesa]

Bored on a Friday night so I decided to check out this forum which I never read.  I think it was serendipity because....

On 8/18/2017 at 7:32 PM, aradia22 said:

Do most people answer yes to this? Am I the weird one? I get it if you're in a longterm relationship and/or if you live in the same house but otherwise, it seems like a bit much to me. 

I once had a guy "break up" with me because I didn't want to talk every day.  And I put "break up" in quotes because we had only gone out on a few dates.  Like 2 or 3 non-sexual dates. There was nothing to really break.  But sure enough, when he made this request and I told him that we should talk to each other daily if, and only if, we felt like we really had something to say. Apparently, according to him, I wasn't interested in putting the work into our "relationship" so we were done. 

That was fine.  This was years ago and I was only online dating as a bit of a curiosity since it wasn't as ubiquitous as it is now but needless to say, I'm kind of glad that they're asking that question.  Apparently, it's important to some people.

[JTMacc99]

14 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Bored on a Friday night so I decided to check out this forum which I never read.  I think it was serendipity because....

I once had a guy "break up" with me because I didn't want to talk every day.  And I put "break up" in quotes because we had only gone out on a few dates.  Like 2 or 3 non-sexual dates. There was nothing to really break.  But sure enough, when he made this request and I told him that we should talk to each other daily if, and only if, we felt like we really had something to say. Apparently, according to him, I wasn't interested in putting the work into our "relationship" so we were done. 

That was fine.  This was years ago and I was only online dating as a bit of a curiosity since it wasn't as ubiquitous as it is now but needless to say, I'm kind of glad that they're asking that question.  Apparently, it's important to some people.

Your example is why I thought that was a good question. OKC gives you the opportunity to clarify your answer, and I think that question begs for a little color to the answer. 

It specfically asks if you think daily contact is a requirement with a significant other. 

2-3 dates does not qualify as anywhere near "significant other" status for me, but that guy was already classifying you as having a relationship. Which, yikes. 

[Lantern7]

What is the etiquette if somebody likes my profile but doesn't message me? A lady near me likes me, we are an 83 percent match, but she has a daughter. It's not that I hate kids, but I don't know if I would be "worthy" to see her because I can barely "adult" as it is. She has one child . . . she doesn't need a second one that might want to kiss her a lot.

[aradia22]

@Lantern7 There are two separate questions in your question. I'll let someone else handle the kids part. But either person can message. There are no rules or etiquette. Maybe she's waiting for you to message her. Maybe (like me) she might get around to messaging eventually but it isn't a priority. Maybe she was haphazardly swiping. Maybe she's not interested in dating per se but something in your profile caught her eye and she might want to chat. You'll never know until she sends a message or you message first. 

[DeLurker]

@Lantern7 - secondhand experience input since I have never done the online dating, but my friends have.  The people I know who have kids have been very careful to disclose that, but most have some pretty solid boundaries between someone they meet online and their children.  So unless you absolute loathe the idea of interacting with a child at any time or place in the future, I wouldn't worry about the issue.

Dating a person who does not have children and perhaps is not yet fully adulted often provides an opportunity for the person to be a little more carefree whether in conversation or in person.  Intermittent moments of being yourself and not a parent (with all the responsibilities that go with it).

So instead of echoing @aradia22, I say nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[JTMacc99]

7 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

What is the etiquette if somebody likes my profile but doesn't message me? A lady near me likes me, we are an 83 percent match, but she has a daughter. It's not that I hate kids, but I don't know if I would be "worthy" to see her because I can barely "adult" as it is. She has one child . . . she doesn't need a second one that might want to kiss her a lot.

If she likes your profile, and you are actually interested in her back which is unusual in my experience so good for you, it is now your turn to send her a short 40-70 word note. Mention something in her profile that caught your attention, maybe ask a question about it. 

Don't worry about the kid thing, you're not signing up on OKC to be a parent, you're signing up for a date. So is she. 

At least on OKC you have the ability to initiate the conversation. On Bumble you sometimes get this:  

Phone says ? You have a new connection!

Then you open up Bumble and look at the connection. You say to yourself, "Oh. I remember swiping on her. She's cute, and an American Airlines pilot. She sounds really interesting!"

You don't get a note in the first 30 minutes and say to yourself "Oh well."

Then you watch the little countdown clock tick away the next 23.5 hours and she disappears forever. 

Heh. Over before it started. 

Edited August 27, 2017 by JTMacc99

[Lantern7]

I messaged the lady, voicing my concerns and leaving a little leeway. She wished me luck

Should I put a disclaimer in my profile? "No smokers, no [MISC STUFF I CAN'T TYPE HERE]. Also, I'm relunctant to date a mother because I barely feel like I'm removed from a kid. I don't know how well I can 'adult,' and I might fail there because I just used 'adult' as a verb."

[ratgirlagogo]

8 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Also, I'm relunctant to date a mother because I barely feel like I'm removed from a kid. I don't know how well I can 'adult,' and I might fail there because I just used 'adult' as a verb."

I think saying "no moms with kids" kind of comes across as douchey no matter how reasonable your reasons are.  I'd skip that because it will probably take care of itself on the first date in any case.

Edited August 29, 2017 by ratgirlagogo

[Lantern7]

@ratgirlagogo: maybe I would like the child(ren). It's more of a concern than an outright dealbreaker . . . though it would still feel like walking on ice for me.

[ratgirlagogo]

4 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

It's more of a concern than an outright dealbreaker

Yes, I understand.  That's why I think you should just keep it out of your profile entirely because putting it there suggests that it is much more important to you than it really is.

[aradia22]

Speaking in the abstract here... even though my personality isn't all sunshine and roses, I think it's best to keep negativity out of your profile. Someone might engage with you in spite of it but it might cause a hesitation. 

For example, let's play a game of what straightforward people say vs. what coy people hint at.

• No fatties VS. I want someone "into fitness"
• White girls only or no (insert pluralized race or ethnicity here) VS. I like "freckles," "blue or green eyes," message me if you're "Zooey Deschanel" or (insert other white manic pixie dream girl/hipster/nerd cool girl)
• No gold diggers or baby mamas vs. something about feminism or equality but phrased in a loaded way (sometimes specifically mentioning not paying for dates or that sort of thing) [Honestly, this one usually comes across badly no matter how they try to phrase it.]
• Have your shit together/be an adult VS. I'm looking for someone "ambitious"
• No drama queens or don't be a bitch or other gendered words for a woman who has her own thoughts/wants/needs VS. I'm looking for a girl who is "nice" and "easygoing" and "positive" and "fun"
• Loaded terms about promiscuity, judgments about drinking VS. "You look like a nice girl," "I don't like partying"
• I am an asshole VS. I am "blunt," "sarcastic," "very honest" or You must have a "sense of humor" to deal with me

Paraphrased but this is all taken from my experience. This is off the top of my head. I could write pages and pages on this stuff.

[JTMacc99]

31 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

No fatties VS. I want someone "into fitness"

I see versions of "Someone who keeps himself in shape" a lot. I also see the occasional specific blanket lecture of "Nobody wants to see shirtless pictures of you at the gym guys..."

So I put a picture of myself, in a black tee shirt sitting on a machine at the gym, with the caption "Proof of Gym Attendance". I figure if you're going to get my sense of humor, that would be a good example.

[theredhead77]

4 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I messaged the lady, voicing my concerns and leaving a little leeway. She wished me luck

Should I put a disclaimer in my profile? "No smokers, no [MISC STUFF I CAN'T TYPE HERE]. Also, I'm relunctant to date a mother because I barely feel like I'm removed from a kid. I don't know how well I can 'adult,' and I might fail there because I just used 'adult' as a verb."

If you feel you aren't fully "adulting " or "launched" yet you should just avoid anyone with a kid because it is deal-breaker for you at this time. Just skip right past them, even if they messaged you. There is no rule or requirement to respond to anyone who likes you.

Frankly no one wants an initial message with concerns listed out. That would get an immediate delete from me. 

I would also encourage you to make sure any sort of desperation to find someone doesn't come across in your profile or messages as it does here. Here, you come across as a bit impatient, wanting to jump into paying because you weren't getting results after just a few weeks. People are picky and people are busy. Is there a social sports league near you that you could join to try to meet people / make friends organically?

[JTMacc99]

On 8/29/2017 at 6:48 PM, theredhead77 said:

Frankly no one wants an initial message with concerns listed out. That would get an immediate delete from me.

Definitely a bad plan. 

Here's a question I'd like to throw out there about the inititial message to give us men some direction:

Some apps, like OKC, have a whole profile and therefore lots of words to work with for a man to use when sending an opening note. But some apps like Tinder, Bumble, Hinge, are mostly photos and a few words. For the ones where we are working pretty much ONLY from the photos, what are the feelings about commenting on appearance? I know from MY perspective, I kind of like it when in the first message or two I get a "you seem funny and cute!" But I'm a guy.

I'm assuming that just leading with a "You're pretty" is worthless, even when using the correct form of your/you're.  But back when I was on Tinder ::shudder:: I remember seeing a set of photos where every single one was a group photo. They ranged from just her and a single friend to her in a group of ten. After eventually figuring out which was the only person appearing in all of the photos, which wasn't easy, a thought crossed my mind. It may have been my favorite set of dating photos ever. Every one is a group shot, lots of cute friends, and yet she still managed to be the prettiest one in every picture. That's not easy to do. I have one group photo I use and I always worry that they'll look at it and think, "I wish he was that guy on the right."

So anyway, would some form of comment on what I said about it being my favorite set of photos ever and her being the prettiest one in each photo be an acceptable opening message given that I had nothing else to work with but the photos? Or should we just steer clear of that topic all together with the opening message?

[roseslg]

57 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

Definitely a bad plan. 

Here's a question I'd like to throw out there about the inititial message to give us men some direction:

Some apps, like OKC, have a whole profile and therefore lots of words to work with for a man to use when sending an opening note. But some apps like Tinder, Bumble, Hinge, are mostly photos and a few words. For the ones where we are working pretty much ONLY from the photos, what are the feelings about commenting on appearance? I know from MY perspective, I kind of like it when in the first message or two I get a "you seem funny and cute!" But I'm a guy.

I'm assuming that just leading with a "You're pretty" is worthless, even when using the correct form of your/you're.  But back when I was on Tinder ::shudder:: I remember seeing a set of photos where every single one was a group photo. They ranged from just her and a single friend to her in a group of ten. After eventually figuring out which was the only person appearing in all of the photos, which wasn't easy, a thought crossed my mind. It may have been my favorite set of dating photos ever. Every one is a group shot, lots of cute friends, and yet she still managed to be the prettiest one in every picture. That's not easy to do. I have one group photo I use and I always worry that they'll look at it and think, "I wish he was that guy on the right."

So anyway, would some form of comment on what I said about it being my favorite set of photos ever and her being the prettiest one in each photo be an acceptable opening message given that I had nothing else to work with but the photos? Or should we just steer clear of that topic all together with the opening message?

I don't know about others, but for me, it's an immediate turnoff if the first thing someone comments on is my attractiveness, especially in comparison to others.  It's hard in the swipe apps since all you really get is you a picture, but a simple Hi, you look like someone I would like to have a conversation with or something of that ilk would go over better (with me).   Mind you, I had a detailed profile and my husband also had a detailed profile and our exchanges were sorta long too :).

[theredhead77]

@JTMacc99 personally I'd really like it if someone commented on the activity in the background of my photo instead of on my appearance. Concert photos - did you go? Do you like the artist? Something I'm doing - do you also do that activity, do you want to? Take the activity as the guide.

[aradia22]

So... still nothing. Kind of. I've been getting a lot of overtures. Perfectly polite (if usually generic) attempts to either strike up a conversation or ask me out on a date. And I haven't responded. I haven't found any of the photos/profiles to be appealing and I haven't been interested in faking it for either the experience of going on dates or coffee/dinner (which has never been enough motivation for me... I can feed myself). And yet I do want to go on a date. I should be reaching out to more people because in that sea of rejection, if you send out enough lures, you'll catch one fish. But I'm not in that headspace right now. Is it me? Should I just try going on a date with one of these guys I know that I'm not into? Or should I stay the course and wait for someone I can potentially be excited about?

Reminder: Despite assumptions to the contrary, I have not been on a date since June. 

[JTMacc99]

2 hours ago, aradia22 said:

Should I just try going on a date with one of these guys I know that I'm not into?

No, you should not. When you are feeling good about it, the guy, yourself, that's when you're likely to have good dates. I don't see any point in just going through the motions. 

[JTMacc99]

Another thought is that I think we do the other person a disservice if we go on a date when we've already made up reasons why it probably won't work. 

That's my serious thought.

It does remind me of some joking around I had at my own expense once when I had a "like" from someone who went to Harvard. I projected the date to go as such:

Me: "Let me tell you my theory on why there is no pork dog food..."

Her: "[This was a mistake.]

[OldButHappy]

I want to thank everyone on this forum - I saw this forum a week ago and randomly decided to try OKC for a month.  Knowing that there was a place to discuss my experiences tipped the scales for me.

Last year, I used eHarmony for 3 months.  And I got.....one date!  And he never called back.  Ha!  Basically zero interest from anyone. 

I'm realistic - I'm not a model, but I've had some very handsome boyfriends (I had "approachable-girl-next-door" looks) and  have many great, long-term friendships.

On August 14, 2017 at 10:45 AM, JTMacc99 said:

I definitely felt like a Seinfeld character

Me too.  So, this time around, like George Costanza, I've decided to do the opposite of what I think I should do.  ;) I took time to answer the questions thoughtfully, I'm liking all kinds of men, and chatting with them online.

And I'm getting many likes, and meeting for coffee with a good looking, smart guy on Monday.  I don't think it will be a match - too many red flags indicating narcissistic tendencies.  Normally, that would spook me.  But in keeping with doing the opposite of what I would usually do, I'm going!  Another man seems like a better match, but he live a couple hours away.  He gave me his phone number and I'll be calling him tomorrow.  So this opposite thing seems to be working.

I have a couple of questions:

1) Where on OKC can you see how many times someone has viewed your profile?

2) What's the benefit of stealth mode (or hidden mode, or incognito mode - I forget the name)?  Why not just hide the people that you know won't be a match?

Thanking y'all in advance!  I'll keep 'ya posted...  

[JTMacc99]

3 hours ago, OldButHappy said:

1) Where on OKC can you see how many times someone has viewed your profile?

I think that feature is gone and has been for a while. 

I like the opposite George plan for a while. I'm usually Even Steven Jerry in regular life, but when I started feeling like nothing was worth my time with these apps I just stopped trying so hard. Immediately started getting interest again and have someone I'm getting to know now. 

So good luck out there!

[roseslg]

6 hours ago, OldButHappy said:

1) Where on OKC can you see how many times someone has viewed your profile?

2) What's the benefit of stealth mode (or hidden mode, or incognito mode - I forget the name)?  Why not just hide the people that you know won't be a match?

The benefit of stealth mode?  No one can see your stalker tendencies?  Lol.  I dunno.  SOmetimes I would check someone's profile out several times without messaging them to see if I am really interested, then I would check it out again after i've messaged them to see if they've been online recently (to have read my message).   If someone has viewed your profile an abnormal number of times, that may be a red flag?  A guy I know who was on there, said he would rule those women out. 

[OldButHappy]

On August 24, 2017 at 4:03 PM, Lantern7 said:

So . . . basically, when it comes to dating, you either get a positive response, negative response, or no response

My responses fit into a fourth category - the ambivalent response.  I'm chatting with men that seem interesting with the same tone that I use with people I interact with professionally - I'm polite, respond to their questions, and genuinely try to be respectful and kind.  I just hide anyone who really doesn't seem like a match.  Until I meet someone in person, I can't gauge the relationship potential.

I assume that everyone is checking out many options, so I expect that chats will sometimes have gaps - starting and stopping as we check out different people.  If someone says something creepy, they're blocked.  So as long as I can see their profile, I figure that I'm still 'under consideration'.

(and I love the panda pic, and think that other women would too...I would change the caption, though, deleting the mother reference and substituting "working to save the pandas" or another animal-centric phrase.  Lots of us are animal lovers, and the lab coat gives an air of importance to the work you do.  IMHO, of course)

[OldButHappy]

30 minutes ago, roseslg said:

If someone has viewed your profile an abnormal number of times, that may be a red flag?

Thank goodness they removed it!  At 61, in my "opposite George" mode, I have a lot of likes, and several ongoing chats; I have a hard time remembering who is who.  Plus, I look at the questions more than once, b/c they change, as people  add more answers.  Same with photos.

After a week on the site, I have so much snark and wtf responses to things I've seen and read there.  But in my "opposite George" mode, I'm keeping it to myself and remaining optimistic.  ;)

Edited September 3, 2017 by OldButHappy

[aradia22]

Quote

After a thorough review of your profile, examination of your pictures, and conferee with world experts, I've determined...that I can totally...rock you in a thumb-wrestling match. I know it's unsettling but I'm sure you're cool in other ways? What's your favorite dance?

New first message. I mean, clearly it's one of those fishing messages but it's not a gross pick up line and at least he put some charm into a message he's sending to hundreds of women? Or maybe it's just friendlier negging? Anyway, I'm just not attracted to his photos and I find his profile and sense of humor unappealing so it doesn't matter. But what is "conferee"? 

[theredhead77]

3 hours ago, aradia22 said:

New first message. I mean, clearly it's one of those fishing messages but it's not a gross pick up line and at least he put some charm into a message he's sending to hundreds of women? Or maybe it's just friendlier negging? Anyway, I'm just not attracted to his photos and I find his profile and sense of humor unappealing so it doesn't matter. But what is "conferee"? 

Judging from the context, a typo for conferred.

[ratgirlagogo]

8 hours ago, aradia22 said:

But what is "conferee"?

An odd antique way of saying conference.  Tell him your favorite dance is the hokey-pokey.

[OldButHappy]

Ok, enough of opposite-George...

I'm seriously shocked by how horny all these old geezers are - even the dudes who look like normal guys have really explicit questions-and-answers in their profiles.  Maybe it's just me (!), but I'm the kind of person who would like to know a man quite well before learning about his anal proclivities and bondage fetishes.  Call me old-fashioned....

And 65 year old dudes with the shirtless bathroom selfie???  

And a 66 year old who writes that he's so hot, he turns heads (he was just some shlubby-looking guy)??  I sooooo wanted to message him that those people were just watching him to make sure that he didn't fall.  

And so many profiles with angry-looking head shots from men who "Love to laugh!!!"??

And men who write super-long, flattering missives, based on my profile, before we even exchange a greeting...do they seriously not understand that they are just projecting what they want onto me?  The activities that they imagine us doing in the future never bear any semblance to things that I enjoy. Rather, they seriously creep me out.  Example (I could not have made this up): "..tickling each other as we sit in the front row of a movie theater..."  wtf???

back to being my true self...an older version of Elaine:

[possibilities]

I put right in my profile that I'm not looking for casual sex, and I'm not even going to make a decision about whether or not sex is eventually going to happen until after we get to know each other, so don't message me if you're looking for a hook up. I explicitly added that this means I'm not going to have sex on the third date, either, to screen out people who think getting to know you means two dinner dates and then jump in the sack.

I don't get any sleazy messages, so I'm guessing that worked.

I know that sex first, intimacy later is the norm these days, but it's not for me and I just don't want to deal with people who are pushing for that, because to me it feels like harassment.

[aradia22]

Quote

And so many profiles with angry-looking head shots from men who "Love to laugh!!!"??

Ha! Welcome, New Adventures of Older Elaine. I look forward to reading more of your posts. ;) 

This part of your post really gets to me (though I also get the long message thing... it's about half projection/half actually mentioning something in my profile). There was something floating around the internet about how guys shouldn't smile too much in their profile photos. But either these guys over-corrected or they just thought that was how they should present themselves to strangers. I call it my "don't look like a murderer" criteria. You don't have to grin from ear to ear but... don't look like a murderer. 

[JTMacc99]

One of my photos is "serial killer", but my hair looks great so I kept it in the deck.

One thing I don't have is a photo of me and a fish. I mention this because it is one of the things I frequently see in the men need to be scolded section of the profiles. Typically it is like this one: "Guys, we don't want to see a picture of you holding a giant fish. This is the equivalent of us putting up pictures of shoes."

Sadly, I've never caught a big enough fish to warrant having a photo taken of me holding it. So it's just me and the dogs or with my friends.

[aradia22]

Quote

One thing I don't have is a photo of me and a fish. I mention this because it is one of the things I frequently see in the men need to be scolded section of the profiles. Typically it is like this one: "Guys, we don't want to see a picture of you holding a giant fish. This is the equivalent of us putting up pictures of shoes."

I feel like "big fish" is one of those trends like "tigers" that's mostly dead. I wonder if you see more of the "scolding" @JTMacc99 because you're looking at profiles of older women who have been at the online dating game for longer. Of course there are irritating things in your 20's but they seem to primarily be behaviors (ghosting, cheating, etc.). Except shirtless selfies. Regardless of age, guys really seem to want you to know what they look like with their shirts off. 

[JTMacc99]

It's maybe one in twenty that have a separate section for lecturing. Another one in twenty that specifically state things you "can't" be. 

It's just part of something that we all look out for, men or women, and that's the profile that has a distinctly negative slant. It's typically dripping with "not over whatever burned him or her in a previous relationship" and for me, a giant warning sign to move on.

And I have a bit of a history for frolicking right through warning signs, so I'm trying to pay closer attention.

[Moose135]

5 hours ago, JTMacc99 said:

It's just part of something that we all look out for, men or women, and that's the profile that has a distinctly negative slant. It's typically dripping with "not over whatever burned him or her in a previous relationship" and for me, a giant warning sign to move on.

There is one woman's profile that popped up on my potential matches a few times whose user name is "HeCheated".  Yeah, no issues there...

[aradia22]

Quote

Much of the cultural interrogation of the various flavors of non-monogamy revolves around how the burgeoning practice in straight relationships — it’s long been common in queer couplings, especially among gay men — affects the social bonds that traditionally structure families and adulthood. And while the changing natures of marriage and monogamy are interesting (and Zeitgeist-y), the proliferation of open relationships requires the participation of a group whose stake in the issue has gone largely unexamined: single people, and especially single women, whose place in society has changed most rapidly of anyone during the current generation. It’s easy to feel like everyone’s poly now, but does anyone want to date them?

“I’ve never gone on a date with one of those people. In fact, it pisses me off. You see a cute profile and read the bio, and then BAM. ‘I am so in love with my girlfriend.’ Fuck you, dude,” Elena, 29, told me. “It seems greedy. They’re already in relationships and there to drain our already small well.” Although many of the women I spoke with were open to non-monogamy in theory, the value proposition of dating a coupled man without an existing primary partner of their own felt uncompelling. “I would fuck them once or twice, but I wouldn’t date them. Dating is an issue of allocating resources, both temporal and emotional, and that just seems like a losing bet,” said Beth, 36. “You end up beholden to this weird cosmology in which everyone but you has a partner already.”

For single women, the trepidation isn’t just about sorting through men on dating apps: there’s the question of what happens in the long term, and whether navigating someone else’s existing relationship is even worth it if you don’t have one yourself to fall back on? Beth wasn’t so sure. “Like I’m gonna meet someone and they’re gonna be like, ‘Oh I don’t eat pussy because my wife won’t let me.’ What?” It’s not that she’s particularly invested in monogamy as a concept, but the potential power dynamic — of being a single woman with a boyfriend who already has a partner — seems untenable.

These frustrations aren’t new, of course; they’re just presenting themselves to a group of people who were largely able to avoid them in the past: women looking to date men. When I inquired with Jack, a single, gay 26-year-old, he confirmed that those exact competing interests are often points of contention in gay dating. “On Grindr, it doesn’t bother me, but on Bumble or whatever, it gets annoying. Like, let the alone people have something.” He estimated that about half the men he encounters are already in a relationship of some sort, and while the estimates were much lower for the women I surveyed, they all reported a big jump in the past few years.

On the other end of the equation, nonmonogamous men have begun to sense single women’s growing frustration. “I’ve specifically seen an increase in ‘if you are in an open relationship, swipe left’–type messaging,” says Jeremy, 38. “My general sense from the women I talk to is, ‘Great, now I don’t just have to deal with single dudes being awful at me, I also have to deal with partnered dudes being awful at me, treating me like a human sex toy to spice up their marriage, or feeling entitled to my time because they have permission to date outside their relationship.’” Dealing with male entitlement isn’t unique to women considering a nonmonogamous partner, but finding a new frontier of it is undoubtedly frustrating. He also thinks social perceptions play a role. “There’s a specific stigma around being a single person who is dating someone who has another, more primary relationship, and that’s deeply rooted in misogyny (‘side piece,’ ‘mistress,’ etc.).” When there have always been starkly negative social consequences for a woman dating a partnered man in the past, giving it a shot, even in an ethical and open way, can feel understably risky.

Jenn, 41, who came to non-monogamy as a single woman after she ended a miserable monogamous relationship and then met a man in an open marriage, found something similar. “To be successful as a poly person, you have to be really open and honest with all of your partners, so it kind of forces you to discuss your feelings and thoughts more openly than monogamous relationships do. Not that you can’t be perfectly open in monogamous relationships, but I think you have to try harder.” For her, polyamory with non-primary partners has been a huge boon to her personal happiness. “Poly just makes so much sense for me, I’m kind of angry it took me this long to figure it out. I’ve been pretty consistently saying since I was 15 that I don’t want to get married or have kids. Now, you can do those things and be poly, but if you don’t want to do those things, I think being poly is a better fit than being monogamous. At least for me it is.”

Ultimately, poly people aren’t the problem, and neither is non-monogamy itself. Instead, the issue seems to be a matter of a perfect storm of changing norms: the surge in Tinder-style swipe apps as a default way to meet potential partners, coupled with the changing social expectations of both single womanhood and married monogamy. On top of that, everyone has the eternal problem of trying to determine what it is they actually want, alongside thousands of others trying to do the same, aided by widely varying levels of self-awareness and emotional responsibility.

https://www.thecut.com/2017/09/why-are-dating-apps-full-of-people-in-open-relationships.html

[JTMacc99]

Isn't that special. 

It has taken me a while, but I'm getting to be  the right amount of cynical when I use the apps. Not so much that I've lost hope, but enough to protect myself. 

[aradia22]

First message

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Hi, I'm (redacted), sorry for being straight forward but would you be interested in something casual? I can send you pics on kik

Second message

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You have amazing bady

DELETE!

[aradia22]

First photo: Lifting at the gym

Second photo: Drawstring pants, shirtless, bent at the waist to show his sick traps and pecs (or man boobs... I don't care if they're hard or squishy, at either end of the spectrum, they still look like man boobs)

Third photo: Same pants, shirtless, head cut off, taken from below (but not one of those incredibly charming shots right at the crotch so relatively tame)

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My self-summary

PhD student

This is art.

[aradia22]

I want to make it clear that I normally don't do this. I don't have the time, inclination, or patience to troll someone whether they deserve it or not. Usually I'm just polite, maybe a little flirty... or I won't engage or I'll quickly block or hide someone who's acting up. But I was feeling some kind of way and online dating hasn't been going great lately. With that said... enjoy

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HIM: Your writing is very impressive even from just a dating profile. You must read a lot.

ME: Hi, How are you? Thank you. I don't read as much as I should. If I really applied myself I would have finished more of those doorstop novels.

HIM: Would you read them to me for a bedtime story?

ME: I'm not sure why you'd want me to read you a memoir about a woman with an eating disorder.

HIM: Cause then after you'll be big spoon :)

ME: I'm more of a shovel.

HIM: Hehehe like to try

ME: I will bury you

HIM: Is that a threat or something I will enjoy?

Ugh, give it up, dude. 

[aradia22]

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Hello (my name spelled incorrectly), my name is (redacted), it's a bit late now, but I just got home from the synagogue, anyway I think you are the best girl here and normal, I studied Mandarin in college and since then love Asia, let's build a relationship :) how's it going?

I'm too hot to deal with this right now. Should I be offended? Also, his photos are terrible. Not in the overtly sexual way but in the... how are these the best photos you have of yourself/are you a serial killer kind of way.

Side note: Getting a lot of that lately. Where I can't tell whether I'd be attracted to someone because their (let's say 8) photos look like 5 different people. And one has a messy room and at least 2 of them are murderers. 

[JTMacc99]

2 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

Don't know about others, but I would giggle at the caption and go for you, lol.

That picture got me a couple dates. 

2 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

Anyway, point is  I am not really used to dating and being so confused about how it all works and about what's appropriate and what feels too much like a "player's game" (I don't know how else to describe it?). 

At the same time, it's been really fun making new experiences and learning something new about myself, getting more confident in my own skin. 

I've been thinking things like this myself. It's all experiences that are moving me forward as a person, but for sure there are moments when I just want to take a step back and regroup.

 

And on a different topic, last weekend I was attempting to talk to a person of interest at an event I was attending. At one point she gave me an opening wide enough to fly a 747 through, and I somehow managed not to take it. Sigh.  But this morning I heard comedian Ben Gleib (he also hosts Idiot Test on GSN) say this:  "It's hard to meet people. The other day, a beautiful girl smiled at me. All you have to do to close the deal is smile back, and somehow I fucked that up. I had a yawn hit me. By the time my eyes opened, she was gone. I think I saw her purse running around the corner; she must have thought I was turning into a Werewolf."

Heh. Yep, it's not only me who has absolutely no game.

[DeLurker]

5 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

I don't really know what to make out of that or what that says about me.

I'd guess that says there is part of you that is not ready for an exclusive relationship and often ensures that won't happen by finding people who would normally be geographically undesirable to be desirable.  Or maybe you just have a thing for accents - or both : < )

3 hours ago, JTMacc99 said:

At one point she gave me an opening wide enough to fly a 747 through, and I somehow managed not to take it.

Is it something you can follow up with her on?

[JTMacc99]

Just now, DeLurker said:

Is it something you can follow up with her on?

That's the plan!  I thought of the perfect thing to say when I was in my car later that day. 

[Moose135]

1 hour ago, JTMacc99 said:

That's the plan!  I thought of the perfect thing to say when I was in my car later that day. 

That's always how it works, isn't it?

[aradia22]

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hello. thank you for being a beautiful woman. may we please be friends? have you had any luck? i just hope guys show you the respect you deserve

New first message.  One photo where he looks like a murderer. This is his self-summary.

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My self-summary

I love Women and I hope to start some good and nice friendships

I thought the whole pick-up artist thing was suppose to give you a little more finesse. I don't know if he's from reddit or 4chan, but I know he's on one of them.

[aradia22]

Quote

1.) I went on three dates with a guy in March and I even stayed over night. Then we kind of stopped seeing each other and I wouldn't always get a response when I texted him, though months later it even turned out that he was the friend of a friend of a friend, which I thought was a funny coincidence. However, I kind of still kept pushing for it and texted him every couple of months and then I would get a friendly reply once in a while. Which I thought was great, because even if nothing were ever to come of it again, I'd still like to have him part of my life, because he seemed cool and interesting and I'm also just like, maybe it's the naivety of me being a wallflower, but if I share something with someone, even if it's not gonna be something serious, I'd still want to keep in touch, because if I like someone, I'm interested in their life and where they will go. I don't just want people to be interchangeable, as if there were like a "thing". Anyway,  he's had a lot of stuff going on to get his future up and running, so I understand that he faded away, though it was hard for me to crush on someone so badly who was essentially unavailable. Last month I texted him again to hear what he was up to and we had a nice short chat and he asked if I would like to hang out after the dust settles and he's more available again. To which I implied with an euphoric yes, but..

Make your own choices, but any dating advice book would tell you this is a bad idea. If you just like him and are happy to have made a new friend then fine, he's a new friend and people don't have to see their friends all the time. There are best friends and there are acquaintances you run into once in a while. But you slept together and it seems like you're making yourself very available for him, to the point where sometimes he doesn't want to respond to you. I would mentally file him away as not available not "essentially unavailable" at least until his life stuff is sorted out. Of course he's willing to hang out again. The possibility of a hookup is still on the table and you're making yourself available on his schedule. Everything's easy for him. In trying to make it more meaningful, you've made things more casual on his part while getting invested yourself.

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2.) While we were not in touch, I continued to use dating apps and while I was on vacation in the US, I met this other guy who was really lovely and we kind of had a "thing", it didn't get sexual, but it was nice and he was a fantastic kisser and we kind of gelled and of course, we have stayed in touch and while our chats are not exactly deep, I am still kind of smitten with him and he had plans to come to Europe and of course we were both like "of course we have to see each other". I really liked him and I think if we lived in the same country we would have definitely been seeing each other and maybe it would have been more serious. And while it's certainly a possibility that we'll see each other again, it's kind of strange to still be so flirty, because there is no closure of any kind, it's just like keeping your options open, which is strange, because at the same time, our very different lives continue to go on....

Again, think about what you're getting from this relationship. If you're having fun being flirty pen pals, that's awesome. But if you're expecting something to come of it or you're using it as a distraction from being invested in someone who lives near you then that's a problem. Flirting is not a problem if you're not in a committed relationship. Thinking that there's "no closure" and you're "keeping your options open" is a problem when you've admitted that there's little chance you can be together unless you live in the same country. You don't have to cut ties, but you have to change the way you think about him. That's why there's no closure. 

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3.) A super-attractive guy I went on a date with last week, who lives in the same city as me. We had a good time, surprisingly I stayed over yet again, and I experienced something new I never have before, which was exciting. I'm also very excited to see him again, a second date is set for this week and when I look at his pictures, I'm just blown away by how insanely beautiful he is. And generally, I'm led to believe if we were to start serious dating, it would be a fairly interesting combination. Though I also kind of felt like Vacation Guy and I seemed to gel a bit better from the start.

That sounds great! Congratulations on having a good first date. I wouldn't start making comparisons to Vacation Guy. You're giving yourself an out when you owe it to yourself and this new guy to try to be fully invested in seeing whether this will work out. 

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So, I've been meeting these really attractive, fun, exciting, interesting guys throughout the year and I feel like I have been bouncing from one guy to the next guy, which makes me feel somewhat confused (before this year I haven't gone on a lot of dates and certainly not with different people within such a short time span). I guess, since I am not tied down to anyone, it's okay to go out and make new experiences, but this whole "not knowing what I want"-thing is really confusing and I guess a lot of it has to do with the "staying in touch"-thing even after it has fizzled out a little or when it's not quite as likely to go anywhere, but at the same time that's just how I want it to go.

Anyway, point is  I am not really used to dating and being so confused about how it all works and about what's appropriate and what feels too much like a "player's game" (I don't know how else to describe it?). 

I don't know where you're from and if that country has a more conservative worldview but nothing you've described sounds all that scandalous to me. You're not going to jump into a longterm, monogamous relationship with the first person you meet. You can certainly look for that, but you're going to have to date different people. You know what the problem is. You keep staying in touch and growing attached to people you've only gone on a few dates with. But you don't feel like changing that pattern of behavior. Which is fine but you have to acknowledge that on some level it's because you like feeling confused or, at least, you like having an excuse to not get serious and try to make it work with one person. How should it work? Go on dates, have fun, try and meet someone you like and want to spend more time with. That's it. You can date more than one person as long as you're comfortable and you haven't made a commitment. If you start to feel uncomfortable, you can always tell the main person you're dating that you're seeing other people and ask if they're OK with that or if they want to be exclusive. You try, you fail, you don't it too seriously. 

Quote

The weirdest thing I found is that I am apparently really turned off by guys who are from the same country as me. Even unconsciously I seem to go for guys from other countries, in a lot of cases I swipe right and I only realize after that they are not actually from here. I don't really know what to make out of that or what that says about me.

Is there a feature on the site you're using where you can specify that you only want to see guys from your country or at least a certain mile radius? 

[Lantern7]

Good News: I set up a date for Tuesday afternoon. Potential Problem: I'll have to kill a few hours after vocational classes. Potential Bad Sign: She suggested the same place I went to several months ago to meet the lady that had to cancel before I bothered to check the phone.

[aradia22]

@Lantern7

1) Yay!

2) Are you sure you can't go back home or run errands or something? Speaking from experience, killing a few hours reading a book never goes as planned and can be mind-numbing if you're not in the mood for it. That's not a good pre-date activity.

3) Don't borrow trouble. It might just be a popular place. Don't read into it.

[JTMacc99]

3 hours ago, aradia22 said:

Don't borrow trouble.

Excellent. Good advice in general. 

[Lantern7]

Checked Google Maps. I figure that I can stay in the building for at least an hour before taking the train down to the date site. Then I take another train to the ferry station and proceed from there. I would have to pay an additional $2.25, but it beats $6.50 for an express bus, even if I get a transfer covering part of the fare. My original plan was going eight blocks to a comic shop to poke around, but there's another one near where I get off. Of course, I'm going to a damn comic book convention next weekend, so I can wait until then to scratch my blind item figures itch. Or maybe I can check for blank-covered comics. I get those from time to time for sketching purposes, as you can see here.

That day, I get up at 6 a.m. and have breakfast a few minutes later. If I have a light lunch, maybe I could get a second lunch around 4, then have dinner around 8. Or I could just have a soda and/or snack.