One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[mstaken]

I've been rewatching the second half of S7 and loving it to a very unpopular degree (I'm seriously adoring the majority of it---FAR more so than about 90% of S5 and all of S6!), but my UO is that I think Gilmore Girls Only is really subpar. The three generations of  Gilmores on a road trip sounds like it could have been among the very best episodes of the last few seasons, but pretty much everything about the execution fell flat for me.  I suppose it doesn't help that I also have the UO of disliking Mia irrespective of which actress plays her and not buying into the 'best woman in the entire universe and SO close to both Lorelai and Rory despite the fact that they mention her only 3-4 times throughout the entire series' thing :)  

[MaiSoCalled]

Heck, I would think seeing Anna's behavior would make Luke come to appreciate Christopher, if only for the fact that Christopher wasn't a psycho-hose beast like Anna.  I honestly cannot imagine for one minute what would possess the writers to give her such a lame reason for hiding Luke's daughter from him for years.

 

I was so torn when Anna decided that she didn't want April around Luke's girlfriend. On one hand Lorelai was his fiancé and it's baffling to me that she didn't think (or care) this would cause problems for Luke. On the other hand, it gave Lorelai a chance to reflect on her own parenting methods. I find the entire April plot full of missed potential. (Full disclosure, I am a full on Vanessa Marano fangirl now that we're in the Switched at Birth era. But I always liked April - just not her mother). 

 

I suppose it doesn't help that I also have the UO of disliking Mia irrespective of which actress plays her and not buying into the 'best woman in the entire universe and SO close to both Lorelai and Rory despite the fact that they mention her only 3-4 times throughout the entire series' thing

 

Mia never worked for me. She made everything so easy for Lorelai, of course she found a sympathetic mother figure the moment she ran away from home. I think I would have preferred the character if she was one or the other - a sympathetic mother hen or a professional mentor. 

Edited August 11, 2014 by MaiSoCalled

[ladyrott]

My UO is I actually liked Liz.  TJ could drive me nuts sometimes, but hippy dipply Liz was fun.  I didn't like some of her behaviors....like dropping her kid off at the diner when Luke was telling her no, but overall, I liked the character.  I would have liked to have seen flashbacks to Luke and Liz growing up together.  I imagine being her big brother drove Luke nuts sometimes.

[Taryn74]

Totally agree, ladyrott.  I also hold the very unpopular opinion that Liz was actually not a terrible mother to Jess.

[dustylil]

I don't care for Gilmore Girls Only either, mstaken. It is one of the reasons I am not a great fan of the seventh season. It just seems like another of those episode where those involved had read about the principal characters but hadn't immersed themselves in them. That may not have been the case, of course, it was just the feeling I had.

As well, I thought the casting of Mia was quite odd. Wonderful as Kathy Baker has been in so many things, she didn't ring true as the warm,  encouraging mother figure for Lorelai we learned of in earlier seasons. Not the least of the problems was that she was several years younger than the actress who had portrayed the character earlier.

Actually Kathy Baker is fairly close in age to Scott Patterson. Which made the lapsed Baptist in me, wonder about the precise nature of Luke's feelings toward Mia :)

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It is interesting what differing opinions viewers have about such a minor character as Mia. Some see her as a kind of fairy godmother who enabled Lorelai (and by extension Rory) to lead a charmed life in Stars Hollow. Others view her as a canny and caring employer who initially out of charity gave Lorelai a job as a maid.  Then seeing her potential, allowed/encouraged her to work her way up the  ranks of the Inn to become its Executive Manager. I belong in the latter group. And while I understand Lorelai's feelings of gratitude and appreciation toward Mia, I didn't think anything Mia  did for a valued employee was all that wonderful.

And frankly, allowing a young woman with a small child to live in a shed in the less than temperate climate of Connecticut always bothered me!

 

[lulu1960]

I liked Liz too. Actually much more than TJ. I agree the second Mia (Kathy Baker) felt too young to me as well. And thanks Dusty for putting the image of Luke and her in my brain.

[Taryn74]

Actually Kathy Baker is fairly close in age to Scott Patterson. Which made the lapsed Baptist in me, wonder about the precise nature of Luke's feelings toward Mia :)

 

 

I should really learn not to be drinking anything when I read one of your posts, dustylil.  I'm still coughing up my tea LOL.

[txhorns79]

And frankly, allowing a young woman with a small child to live in a shed in the less than temperate climate of Connecticut always bothered me!

 

I would guess the shed was heated, otherwise Lorelai would have been a pretty terrible parent to let her infant live like that, when other, plausible alternatives were available. 

 

Totally agree, ladyrott.  I also hold the very unpopular opinion that Liz was actually not a terrible mother to Jess.

 

I feel like the characterization of Liz changed when they cast the actress.  To me, when she was first introduced off screen, she seemed kind of disinterested in her role as a parent.  I vaguely recall them making a show of the fact that Liz never bothered to check on Jess to see if he arrived in Stars Hollow, and that Jess' life with her was less than stable due to a variety of factors mostly caused by his mother. However, when she appeared, she just seemed like a mellow, flighty hippie.   

 

 

Mia never worked for me. She made everything so easy for Lorelai, of course she found a sympathetic mother figure the moment she ran away from home.

 

I thought Emily's comment about how Mia should have sent Lorelai home when she found her was well taken.  I mean, I think it's pretty ballsy of a total stranger to essentially offer your teenager a viable alternative to remaining at home with her parents, when said parents were not abusive and appeared to love their daughter.   

Edited August 11, 2014 by txhorns79

[dustylil]

As one who thought Lorelai was way too involved in Rory's life once she got to Chilton, I respectfully disagree about Liz as a mother. Even punks need parents. And Jess only had the one.

If he had known Luke and was familiar with Stars Hollow, it would have been one thing. A break from her and his old neighbourhood (and his old habits - and her habits for that matter) might have made sense. But at 16 he was dumped in the middle of nowhere with someone he barely knew - and one who had no experience dealing with or  living with teenagers.  If Liz saw or contacted him regularly after the one call when he arrived - or perhaps if that was awkward - even kept in touch with his teachers to make sure he was doing OK at school, it would at least show some ongoing interest and concern. But to the best of my recollection, she washed her hands of him - of which Jess  was clearly aware.

 

Related to Jess - something that has always puzzled me. When Jess first started Stars Hollow High School, he complained to Luke that the Pledge of Allegiance was said  in six different languages, two of which he had never heard of. Now Jess had been living in New York City, one of the world's most multi-lingual cities. Why of all things would hearing foreign languages at the school bother him?

[nolieblue]

 

Related to Jess - something that has always puzzled me. When Jess first started Stars Hollow High School, he complained to Luke that the Pledge of Allegiance was said  in six different languages, two of which he had never heard of. Now Jess had been living in New York City, one of the world's most multi-lingual cities. Why of all things would hearing foreign languages at the school bother him?

This always bothered me too! Stars Hollow had maybe 10,000 people? How could there possibly be more foreign languages spoken there than in NYC. Lazy writing. 

[mstaken]

I actually have the opposite UO from people here---I dislike Liz even more than I dislike TJ. And given my tendency to leap for the 'mute' button whenever TJ is on screen, that's really saying something :) At least there's acknowledgment among the other characters that TJ is insufferably annoying. Liz, however, is rather inexplicably beloved and always absolved with the vague idea that, well, that's just our Liz! It bugs me that Liz presumes to dispense unsolicited pseudo-enlightening advice to others as if she's some uniquely sage guru, which...no. And, while I'm less protective of Luke than most, I think Liz took shameless advantage of him. And this is purely a personal preference issue, but I can't stand the actress who plays Liz---her look, her voice, her line delivery, etc. The quasi-wise hippy dippy type is pretty irksome to me in general, but the writing and acting combine to make Liz easily one of my 2-3 least favorite characters on GG. To make this even more unpopular (and, er, borderline irrational?!), I think one of the reasons I love S4 a bit less than most fans do is because this season brought us Liz and TJ. I know they're only in a handful of episodes but, seriously, I just CAN'T with them!  I'd rather watch Taylor on constant loop than deal with TJ and Liz....I kid you not :)  

Edited August 13, 2014 by mstaken

[AlinaRay]

I think I tend to agree with you...except I'll take it step further and say I mostly found TJ funny. He was supposed to be annoying and irksome, so once I bought into that, I could enjoy him. For example, one of the few (very few) moments of season six I like is when he puts a big hole into Lorelai's house and his following justifications.

 

I didn't so much dislike Liz as I didn't really quite get her. At least April served a specific plot purpose - as messed up as that was. But what did Liz really bring to the table?

[mstaken]

At least April served a specific plot purpose - as messed up as that was. But what did Liz really bring to the table?

 

I'm guessing that once Jess left town the show wanted to replace him with other difficult family members Luke could interact with. Plus, in the GG-verse, characters like Liz and TJ exist to make our main characters seem saner and less annoying by contrast ;)  

[nolieblue]

I only liked Liz because she clearly idolized Luke and I liked him having someone in his life like that who wasn't a GG. It rounded out his character and let us know how loyal he is to family and how important it is to him. Liz took advantage of him for sure, but I think she calmed down quite a bit in later years and was quite supportive of him. TJ was funny in very small quantities but like all the other Townies, the writers went overboard with him in the later seasons. 

[dustylil]

Another of the issues I had with Liz was the actress herself. Now I am sure Kathleen Wilhoite is a fine actress (and also a well regarded musician, I understand). But each role I have seen her in she has been a tiresome and irresponsible character. Most notably, she had a lengthy stint as Chloe on ER where she was the feckless and whiny sister of Dr. Susan Lewis and a drug using, negligent parent.

[mstaken]

Yeah, as I said above, I can't stand the actress who plays Liz. Her voice and line deliveries and facial expressions all make me cringe. 

 

Another UO: I thought Hep Alien was inexpressibly awful. I literally laugh out loud whenever they congratulate themselves on how awesomely they 'rocked the house' or when we're reminded that they actually, like, get jobs and have fans. 

[nolieblue]

My UO. I don't like breakdown in the park scene from The Incredible Sinking Lorelais. I thought SP was perfect but LG was surprisingly bad -- so much so that I find it painful to watch her, especially when she starts to cry and kind of dumps her head against Luke's chest.

[mstaken]

My UO. I don't like breakdown in the park scene from The Incredible Sinking Lorelais. I

 

Table for two! I'll take it a step further and say I don't actually like that episode much at all. The girls' parallel breakdowns were a little too on the nose IMO and both Lorelai and Rory's crying scenes were more cringe-worthy than touching for me.  

[txhorns79]

Table for two! I'll take it a step further and say I don't actually like that episode much at all. The girls' parallel breakdowns were a little too on the nose IMO and both Lorelai and Rory's crying scenes were more cringe-worthy than touching for me.

 

I just thought Rory's problem was so lame as compared to Lorelai's, that it just did not work.  Boo hoo!  Rory has to drop a class, and now she can't live up to the totally arbitrary standard she made up for herself based on something her grandpa did.  That's totally on par with her mother going bankrupt. 

 

I only liked Liz because she clearly idolized Luke and I liked him having someone in his life like that who wasn't a GG. It rounded out his character and let us know how loyal he is to family and how important it is to him.

 

I agree.  It humanized Luke, and allowed him some real interaction with a non-Gilmore that didn't end in yelling or Luke throwing a fit. 

[jjj]

Don't know if this is an UO, but I saw the courtroom scene with Rory yesterday, and was struck by the fact that she got five years probation for pleading guilty.  Having a criminal conviction and being on probation can be significant issues in job hunting, yet there was no follow-up to that, and she would have been on probation for the remainder of the series.  After the community service, it was like the whole incident never happened, but being on probation would have affected issues of job hunting (even that NYT fellowship) and the logistics of moving out of state -- so going forth to cover a presidential campaign in many states would have taken some negotiation.  It would have been a jarring but realistic reminder to see her reporting to a probation officer at some point. 

[ladyrott]

Wow, jjj, I never thought about that before but it is completely true.  The writers forgot about it and evidently so did I.  It would have been nice to see some follow through on that, besides Rory having to pick up trash.  So I will join your UO table for that one.

 

I would also like to join nolieblue, txhorns79 and mistaken at their table regarding the GG breakdowns.  I totally agree with the sentiment that Rory's problem was just ridiculous compared to her mothers.  I know Rory was ever so into school (back then!) but there was really comparison on the severity of the issues.

Edited August 14, 2014 by ladyrott

[blueray]

I also never thought about her probation. My guess is Rory only ended up having to do two years because of good behavior (I imagine she was never late on her probation meetings and never got in trouble again). As for jobs yeah she will always have to list that, but if asked she would just be a college student that did a dumb thing. I wish the followed up in it in the show.

Edited August 14, 2014 by blueray

[nolieblue]

I think by S7 the writers were just trying to forget it ever happened. I mean, would you want to put on your writing resume that you wrote about Grand-Theft Yachting?

[scarynikki12]

I think the five year probation was the shows response to viewer dissatisfaction over the changes to Rory's character post-Chilton.  They seemed to think that having the judge tell her she wasn't getting away with breaking the law and being a spoiled brat, coupled with a few scenes of her running the trash pick up show on the road, would be enough to appease this dissatisfaction. 

 

I do agree that the probation wouldn't have been a massive hurdle for Rory when she went looking for jobs, but I would have liked some follow up, maybe to show her struggle with being judged by her peers rather than getting voted the editor as soon as she went back to school.

 

I also think that Rory's exit story shouldn't have been her getting that campaign job.  Even though she didn't get the fellowship and was hired by a non-major paper, it still felt like she was getting something way too easily yet again.  I'd rather have seen her moving on to Columbia to get her graduate degree in journalism.  I think that would have made way more sense for who she was for most of the series, and would have allowed her to pursue an actual degree in the field like she'd always intended.  Plus, it would have allowed the show's final run of episodes to just focus on this natural ending: Rory moving to New York.  She graduates in the third to last episode, the second to last shows her and Lorelai going on their roller coaster trip, and the last just focuses on the Goodbye Rory theme with the party being the backdrop of most of the episode.  The Elder Gilmores still could have shown up, Richard still could have said those nice things, Emily could have not been passive aggressive for once in her life and just admitted to Lorelai that she wanted to continue Friday Night Dinners with the three of them, Luke and Lorelai get back together amidst the fun (or not I don't care), Lane and Rory just have fun, and then the episode ends with Rory reassuring Lorelai that she's ready for this bigger change (since graduate school leaves very little time to visit on weekends and keep up with studies) and then they drive off to New York, Lorelai once again being there for Rory as she makes the next transition in her life (Chilton, Yale, now Columbia). 

[XtremeOne1]

I vaguely remember Rory's probation and record being expunged because of her good behavior(though given that she was still dating Logan, the court clearly doesn't take good taste into consideration).

[jjj]

No, it was not expunged.  The judge said it could be expunged in five years:  "assuming this is indeed a one-time occurrence, at the end of five years' time Miss Gilmore can petition the court to have this expunged from her record."  There was no follow-up to that in the two remaining seasons. 

[dustylil]

The judge told Rory that she could apply to have her record expunged after five years if this was indeed a one time occurrence. By the end of the series, it was not quite two years. So she was in no way free of her legal obligations.

 

This issue was discussed at TWOP back when the seventh season was being aired - for the job hunt, the Phi Beta Kappa membership, possible Secret Service concerns once she got the job following Mr. Obama's campaign, etc.. It did - again - seem to be one of those things the new showrunners had forgotten.

 

With respect, Rory's probation and overall legal situation could well have been issues when she was applying for jobs. Given that Rory stole the yacht in response to what was workplace criticism, it would have been reasonable for a potential employer to inquire about the matter. At the very least,  she might be expected to be asked if she had developed better coping skills for  dealing with workplace stressors.

[jjj]

Thanks, dustylil -- I had not remembered (maybe never saw) the TWoP conversations about this -- sorry I missed it all!  I've had to go through low-level Secret Service screening just as a guest/organizer at an event (not a sitting president, but past one), and they sure dug into some questions about others involved in the event!     

 

And that is a really good point about workplace stressors!  You are right -- as a potential employer, I would be less concerned about the "lark" of Grand Theft Yacht and far more concerned about "my employer (and boyfriend's father) gave me a bad performance review and I had a meltdown."  I'd be wary of hiring that. 

Edited August 14, 2014 by jjj

[dustylil]

It could be worse jjj. If you didn't hire her, her grandparents might hunt you down and make your life a living hell :)

[txhorns79]

Emily could have not been passive aggressive for once in her life and just admitted to Lorelai that she wanted to continue Friday Night Dinners with the three of them

 

Was Emily really being passive aggressive in that last scene?  I thought I remembered her trying to come up with reasons she could loan Lorelai money, and Lorelai caught on and basically told her that she would see her at dinner.  I thought the whole thing was sweet.   

 

 

With respect, Rory's probation and overall legal situation could well have been issues when she was applying for jobs. Given that Rory stole the yacht in response to what was workplace criticism, it would have been reasonable for a potential employer to inquire about the matter. At the very least,  she might be expected to be asked if she had developed better coping skills for  dealing with workplace stressors.

 

I doubt the interview would delve into that level of specifics.  She stole a boat at some marina, she didn't rob a liquor store or murder anyone.  All she would need to say is that she and a friend made a foolish decision while on a date and they stole a boat.  She could say it was a very stupid, rash, immature thing to do and she learned her lesson.  That's the truth, and there's no need to go into the gory details.  Once she starts offering up the psychology behind the decision, she might as well kiss the job goodbye.         

Edited August 15, 2014 by txhorns79

[JayInChicago]

I don't know that this is a popular or unpopular opinion. (We seem to have some thread drift anyway, so maybe it doesn't matter.)

 

But wouldn't a real life Logan have stopped her from stealing the yacht? I realize the story is the story because they for some reason had to make her character do something like that, but I just never bought Logan, no matter how much of a elite playboy badboy he is, being like "sure, we can do that."  He liked her *because* she didn't do stuff like that, and by kind of enabling her to do that, he was wrecking what he actually liked about Rory.

--------

 

I really have no idea, but is Sookie a realistic portrayal of an executive chef at an inn?  Particularly the bed rest episode--she just seems like she's the worst business partner someone could have. 

And shrill jackass Jackson is possibly more annoying than an unholy union of Liz and TJ.

[txhorns79]

I really have no idea, but is Sookie a realistic portrayal of an executive chef at an inn?  Particularly the bed rest episode--she just seems like she's the worst business partner someone could have.

 

You are entirely right.  Sookie was a horrible business partner.  I think the funny thing was there was a Season 1 or 2 episode where Lorelai and Sookie are fantasizing about how they would own an inn together, Lorelai ends up getting pissed off over something, lays into Sookie about her irresponsibility, etc., but they make up in the end.  I want to say that most of the concerns Lorelai listed when she was yelling at Sookie proved entirely right.  Sookie wasn't responsible, and her irresponsibility put Lorelai into binds when they had the Dragonfly together. 

 

My unpopular opinion was that I thought Lorelai was kind of a bitch to Rory and her mother in Secrets and Loans.  I get her anger at Rory over telling Emily about the termites when she asked Rory not to say anything, but Rory was right.  Lorelai had no real Plan B if her quest for a loan fell through, and she basically snits at Rory the rest of the episode.  Then when Emily actually does something kind and helps by co-signing the loan, Lorelai turns around  as they leave the bank and is a total bitch to her.  I just wanted someone to slap Lorelai and tell her to grow the heck up.  The only thing your pride is going to get you and your daughter is a condemned house.  

[nolieblue]

 

My unpopular opinion was that I thought Lorelai was kind of a bitch to Rory and her mother in Secrets and Loans.  I get her anger at Rory over telling Emily about the termites when she asked Rory not to say anything, but Rory was right.  Lorelai had no real Plan B if her quest for a loan fell through, and she basically snits at Rory the rest of the episode.  Then when Emily actually does something kind and helps by co-signing the loan, Lorelai turns around  as they leave the bank and is a total bitch to her.  I just wanted someone to slap Lorelai and tell her to grow the heck up.  The only thing your pride is going to get you and your daughter is a condemned house.

This isn't unpopular with me! I thought Lorelai was awful to both of them and Emily was honestly a saint for putting up with her and still co-signing the loan. 

 

 

But wouldn't a real life Logan have stopped her from stealing the yacht? I realize the story is the story because they for some reason had to make her character do something like that, but I just never bought Logan, no matter how much of a elite playboy badboy he is, being like "sure, we can do that."  He liked her *because* she didn't do stuff like that, and by kind of enabling her to do that, he was wrecking what he actually liked about Rory.

 One of the many reasons I thought Logan was a bad boyfriend is because he went along with Rory on the boat joyride. If Logan knew anything at all about Rory he would have seen how completely out of character this was and that something had to have been really wrong for her to suggest stealing a boat! I also believe that neither Dean nor Jess would have ever let her do something like this. 

[dustylil]

 Given Logan's own background, I am not sure that he would regard  the yacht theft itself as anything more than a prank, rather than as shocking behaviour. Stealing things - large or small - was something he and his friends appeared to do when bored, to blow off steam, or just because. Therefore,  while thieving was not something Logan might have expected Rory to do or even want to do, he would not have looked on it  as anything of any great significance. It wouldn't have been judged by him - unlike other boyfriends or even friends -  as worrisome conduct,  entirely out of character for her. Lindsay may have thought differently, of course - but I digress :) 

I entirely agree that one of the things that attracted Logan to Rory was that she was  so different from many of the girls he knew or who were in  his social circle. Thinking on this, one small thing from Season 6  still niggles at  my mind. In the twenty first birthday party episode, it was implied that Logan believed he was Rory's first serious boyfriend. That her next beau was due to receive sweater. Was this misapprehension ever corrected?

[txhorns79]

Thinking on this, one small thing from Season 6  still niggles at  my mind. In the twenty first birthday party episode, it was implied that Logan believed he was Rory's first serious boyfriend. That her next beau was due to receive sweater. Was this misapprehension ever corrected?

 

I don't think it was ever brought up, but then again, it probably would all depend on what was meant by a "serious" boyfriend.  Rory had long term relationships while in high school, but I don't know how serious they might be considered.  Or perhaps they might have been considered serious while they were happening, but in retrospect, they might seem a little overwrought and immature.   

[mstaken]

Ugh. Logan. He has a few great qualities and was part of certain scenes that I enjoy. Overall, though, he and the Smarmy McSmirky actor who plays him are among the few aspects of the show that don't improve for me with rewatch. I was (unpopularly, at the time) very happy when Rory turned down his engagement proposal. I also agree with whichever poster mentioned awhile ago that the writers seemed chronically unsure as to whether they were supposed to depict Logan as a guy who Rory should ultimately decide she didn't want to be with (the bridesmaids, the trinket stealing, the excessive (and sometimes solo) drinking, insistence on hanging out with vapid idiots and immature risk taking whenever he felt annoyed with daddy, the fact that Rory seemed to say things to her mom and even Jess to the effect of that she didn't know WHY she loved Logan and wished she didn't, etc.) or as a guy who turned out to be wonderful for her after all---once our very special Rory magically 'tamed' him, that is :) Regardless, they just didn't have much of that inexplicable 'click', chemistry and connection for me. On paper, I can actually agree with people who think Logan and Rory were fairly well-suited by the end and a nice combination of similarities and differences, but somehow they just never fully worked for me, even at their best. Rory (Alexis Bledel?!) just never seemed fully comfortable and truly Rory-ish to me around him. Then again, I have a lot of trouble seeing chemistry between Rory and anyone other than Jess, which I'm sure has to do with MV and AB dating at the time. 

 

It seems a very popular opinion that Bon Voyage was too  cheesy, emotionally manipulative, contrived, unrealistic...etc. And I'm not even sure I can disagree, but I've come to love it like crazy anyway. It totally works for me on almost every level. 

Edited August 19, 2014 by mstaken

[dustylil]

Offering once again an unpopular opinion, I had no problem whatsoever with Lorelai's behaviour and comments to Rory in Secrets and Loans. It was not Rory's place to mention her mother's financial problems to Emily. It was disloyal and disrespectful. Particularly so, as Lorelai had specifically  asked her to keep the matter private. Was Rory not aware of how difficult it was for her mother to be under obligation to Richard and Emily? Or was she really that self-involved?

It is not as if she had been told that because of the termite situation she would have to withdraw from Chilton and return to slumming at Stars Hollow High. That might have warranted a panicked blurting out of the infestation problem. But that was not the case. And there was nothing in Lorelai's parenting over the previous decade and a half that Rory could point to as negligent or foolhardy. As even Rory admitted.

 Who knows. After further thought, Lorelai may have gone back to Luke about his offer. Or asked him to co-sign a loan.  Or put it on a credit card and taken on a second job. Or done a combination of things.   Indeed,  after a hard look at all her options, Lorelai could have approached her parents about borrowing money. In any event, as the adult in the home the matter  was hers to deal with as she saw fit. Not what her teenage daughter thought easiest.

[txhorns79]

And there was nothing in Lorelai's parenting over the previous decade and a half that Rory could point to as negligent or foolhardy. As even Rory admitted.

 

I don't know.  If you look at Lorelai's plan for running away from her parents' home, it seems kind of obvious the entire thing was pretty foolhardy.  Lorelai simply lucked out in that she showed up on the doorstep of a benevolent employer who not only provided her with love, food, shelter and money (along with what must have been a fairly lax policy about bringing your baby to work), but had no interest in sending Lorelai back to her parents or otherwise getting involved in that situation. 

 

 

Or was she really that self-involved?

 

Well, Rory's a teenager, so self-involvement isn't all that surprising.  I would agree Rory's behavior was disrespectful, but IIRC, the night or two before, Lorelai's grand idea of parenting involved waking up Rory late at night, panicking her over the termites and insisting that both of them immediately flee the house to spend the night at Sookie's.  I think I might say then Lorelai reaps what she sows.

 

 

Overall, though, he and the Smarmy McSmirky actor who plays him are among the few aspects of the show that don't improve for me with rewatch.

 

I am totally with you.  I thought Logan was extremely smarmy, and Rory's best moment with him was rejecting his proposal.  

Edited August 20, 2014 by txhorns79

[nolieblue]

My UO, which only the old fogies like me might agree with, is that I thought it was incredibly disrespectful of Rory to allow Logan to stay the night when she was living at the pool house. I was shocked at how she didn't seem to even think twice about it either, especially since she knew that Emily had no qualms about barging in at any time of the day. Of course, I also felt that Rory was an ungrateful spoiled brat during her entire stay at the pool house, which I don't think is too unpopular an opinion.

[MaiSoCalled]

If you look at Lorelai's plan for running away from her parents' home, it seems kind of obvious the entire thing was pretty foolhardy.  Lorelai simply lucked out in that she showed up on the doorstep of a benevolent employer who not only provided her with love, food, shelter and money (along with what must have been a fairly lax policy about bringing your baby to work), but had no interest in sending Lorelai back to her parents or otherwise getting involved in that situation.

 

My UO is that I feel Lorelai was selfish when she ran away from the Gilmore home. I think as a mother, Lorelai should have been concerned with keeping her daughter in the best environment possible. She could have found a way to save money, and move away in a year or two from her parents. I understand that she moved for her own sanity, but it's pure luck that she found a situation that allowed Rory to be safe and healthy. 

 

I feel like the earliest episodes painted the pictures of the Gilmores and Christopher as these horrible people who abandoned Rory. Then, as the show progressed and they became well-rounded characters in their own right, we're left with the image of Lorelai as someone who ran away from reasonably decent people. 

[KatWay]

They can be decent people and it can still be understandable that Lorelai ran away. I don't know, I never thought she was selfish. I think if she hadn't run off then, she wouldn't have gotten another chance for a good long time or gotten the courage to do so, so it was then or never. Otherwise I'm fairly sure the parents would have managed to get her to conform to their plans for her (marrying Christopher, etc.) and I don't think she ever would have been as happy as she was on her own in Stars Hollow, no matter how difficult it may have been at first. 

 

Sure, in real life I'd totally advise against any such thing, but in GG world Lorelai did get lucky and had a pretty great life raising her daughter on her own. And I always thought Emily & Richard were very decent people but also just never really got Lorelai until maybe much later (and even then only partly). She just grew up to be so very different from what they wanted her to be and I think we got a lot of hints that she was very unhappy about that. She always sounded so defensive when somebody brought up anything where she might have disappointed them. I don't think their horrible people because they couldn't really relate to Lorelai and I don't think she's horrible because she decided that she couldn't be happy in that environment. 

[scarynikki12]

I agree and I even think that the elder Gilmores looked worse and worse as the series went on.  In the first couple of seasons, they came across as wanting to connect with Lorelai in the way she'd always wanted but were too afraid and set in their ways to make the necessary steps.  This made the instances when they did connect (even the Office Depot ad of season 2) all the more special and made me think that the relationship would continue to improve and the series finale would be the last step to them being on good terms permanently.  Then the show just amped up the drama of that relationship, likely believing that it would boost the ratings, but it had the effect of making me wonder why the hell I was supposed to root for these three people to fix their relationship.  It seemed like the Gilmores absolutely hated Lorelai and only put up with her because of Rory.  When Lorelai told Emily "we're done" at the end of the vow renewal I cheered her on (though I knew she'd return to FND because I've seen television before) because I was just over this relationship and wanted them to go their separate ways. 

[mstaken]

I agree and I even think that the elder Gilmores looked worse and worse as the series went on.  In the first couple of seasons, they came across as wanting to connect with Lorelai in the way she'd always wanted but were too afraid and set in their ways to make the necessary steps.  This made the instances when they did connect (even the Office Depot ad of season 2) all the more special and made me think that the relationship would continue to improve and the series finale would be the last step to them being on good terms permanently.  Then the show just amped up the drama of that relationship, likely believing that it would boost the ratings, but it had the effect of making me wonder why the hell I was supposed to root for these three people to fix their relationship.  It seemed like the Gilmores absolutely hated Lorelai and only put up with her because of Rory.  When Lorelai told Emily "we're done" at the end of the vow renewal I cheered her on (though I knew she'd return to FND because I've seen television before) because I was just over this relationship and wanted them to go their separate ways.

 

Well said, and I agree wholeheartedly! Lorelai gets a lot of justifiable flak for being an immature wiseass towards her parents, and she certainly deserves her share of blame for the cycle of dysfunction they were locked in for much of the series. But, honestly, I think Lorelai put up with a lot more from them than I would have. The unrelenting hyper-critical nastiness from Emily; the dismissive, can't-even-be-bothered-to-pretend-I-care-you-exist-more-than-once-a-season contempt from Richard; the many times one or both of them schemed behind her back to maneuver something having to do with Rory, Christopher, or even Jason; the snotty disrespect they showed towards Lorelai's choice of a romantic partner...etc. I'm not claiming they were the worst parents ever, and certainly we can all point to far more damaging parent-child dynamics, but by somewhere around S5 I thought they really went overboard in depicting Emily (and, to maybe a slightly lesser extent Richard's) awfulness to the point where I wouldn't have blamed Lorelai a bit if she reverted back to the 'I'll see you only on days the banks are closed' relationship they'd had at prior to the start of the series. As scarynikki pointed out, for the vast majority of the series they seemed truly interested only in Rory anyway. 

 

On a similar note, while I can objectively agree with the idea that the Lorelai-Emily relationship was complex, compelling, skillfully acted, and, in its own way, probably more realistic and relatable than Lorelai-Rory's, my UO is that I  no longer enjoy it even a fraction as much as I used to. I got so burnt out from the ridiculously frequent 'two steps forward, six steps back' dance they did that even the more nuanced, subtly depicted stuff between them from the early seasons fails to touch me as much as it did when I first saw it. Knowing how very many times they go through that same routine, their arguments and the occasional bonding that comes before or after them doesn't resonate nearly as much anymore. I mostly just find them really exhausting. 

Edited August 20, 2014 by mstaken

[JayInChicago]

agreed!

 

I also thought wanting to be at the dinner with Logan was an incredibly flimsy reason for resuming Lor's participation in FNDs.  While this rewatch I am kind of meh, in the past the "You and me, we're through" from L to E after the family picture is basically where any sane person would be when dealing with someone who has meddled that much in some one else's life--no matter the intention behind it. So when Graham delivers that line, I have always up til now felt it was kind of a highlight of the series. 

[txhorns79]

I got so burnt out from the ridiculously frequent 'two steps forward, six steps back' dance they did that even the more nuanced, subtly depicted stuff between them from the early seasons fails to touch me as much as it did when I first saw it. Knowing how very many times they go through that same routine, their arguments and the occasional bonding that comes before or after them doesn't resonate nearly as much anymore. I mostly just find them really exhausting.

 

A thousand times this.  It was like the writers were deathly afraid of letting the Lorelai/Emily relationship grow beyond general antagonism.  Perhaps they thought the relationship was only interesting if the two were sparring.  I'm also in agreement that they wrote themselves into a corner with "You and me, we're done," and really struggled to justify where the story went.  I would have fully expected Lorelai would have ended things with her mother for a long time, and instead things never really resolve.  Rather, they are just shunted to the side and mostly forgotten once Luke and Lorelai get back together.     

 

 

They can be decent people and it can still be understandable that Lorelai ran away.

 

My unpopular opinion was that I think the show did an awful job of making it understandable.  I can see why a teenage Lorelai would run away, but as an adult, I see her actions as extremely destructive and immature.  Her parents weren't monsters, and she wasn't being abused.  She was just an unhappy person who made a very extreme decision to deal with her circumstances.  She was very lucky that her choice ended up working out.  The reality for someone in her situation would likely not be anywhere near as pleasant.    

Edited August 21, 2014 by txhorns79

[nolieblue]

The "resolution" of the "we're done" moment was one of the most unsatisfying story lines of the entire series IMO. It was a great moment that was then just thrown away. I would have rather seen Lorelai stay away until Rory dropped out of Yale and then go to her parents for help and have them actually help her. It would have meant both sides reaching out and would have also, thankfully, avoided the ridiculous rift between Lorelai and Rory.

 

Not sure how unpopular this is, but I thought Lorelai exhibited terrible parenting by cutting Rory out like that. She said that it was something Rory had to go through like what she went through but Lorelai HATED how her parents treated her growing up -- hated how they froze her out when she didn't behave the way they wanted and then she does the same thing to Rory? I never understood her point of view and also didn't understand what the writers were trying to do.

[txhorns79]

Not sure how unpopular this is, but I thought Lorelai exhibited terrible parenting by cutting Rory out like that.

 

I actually thought that was decent parenting.  She and Rory fundamentally disagreed on an important choice Rory was making, and I thought the best thing for Lorelai to do in that situation was take a break from Rory, so Rory could sort out her own issues.  It wasn't a situation where Rory was 16 and Emily was angry over a birthday party.  It was 20 year old Rory dropping out of school, refusing to listen to reason and having no real plan to deal with the situation.     

[nolieblue]

I might have agreed with Lorelai if she'd tried more than once to make Rory see sense. But she cut her off after a five-minute conversation and basically dumped her. Rory may have been 20 but she was a very young 20 who had rarely failed so had no idea how to deal with a real challenge. Whether she was right to believe Mitchum and just give up like that or not, she was clearly going through something and needed support. Why didn't Lorelai suggest that Rory find a summer job at the local paper and wait until the fall to decide whether to drop out? I thought Lorelai behaved like Emily would have and I kept waiting for someone to say that to her!

[dustylil]

At the time Roryleft Yale, Lorelai had been dealing with Rory going off the rails for almost  a year (the affair with Dean, hanging out with a vapid crowd, dating the louche Logan). Other than the rebuke at the time she learned of the Dean relationship, Lorelai had not frozen her out or let her anger and disappointment get the better of her. Even going so far as to have she and Luke double date with Rory and Dean. Apparently she thought (and hoped) Rory would get back on track on her own. Rory's leaving school - and the unbearably snotty way she did so - was likely the last straw.

As has been pointed out,  Rory was twenty. Even if a young twenty, surely old enough to deal with the consequences of her decisions.  If she wanted to leave home without a word and not return phone calls, those were her choices. Of course, her choices - as an "adult" -  involved moving from middle class comfort to a rent-free life of ease and luxury. And a job - only part-time -  set up specially just for her. No low wage, physically exhausting work for Rory!

Perhaps Lorelai should have continued to try to contact her. And laid out options for her. But would Rory have listened?  Frankly, I think there is only so much grovelling a parent can be expected to do in family rifts. And given Rory's appalling conduct towards her grandparents after she had been living under their roof for some months, a  mature conversation with family members was not something I think Rory was likely capable of undertaking in the time after she left Yale.

 

I have no idea if this was what the show's creators were aiming for or how unpopular an opinion this is - but other than giving Rory a boost into getting an Ivy League university I never thought either Lorelai or Rory benefitted from the family reconciliation. Certainly to my mind both were more likeable (and more admirable) people before they became involved with the Hartford Gilmores. This is not to say Rory and Lorelai were without flaws or Richard and Emily without virtues, but I certainly respected Rory and Lorelai less and less as the seasons went on.

Edited August 21, 2014 by dustylil

[MaiSoCalled]

My unpopular opinion was that I think the show did an awful job of making it understandable.  I can see why a teenage Lorelai would run away, but as an adult, I see her actions as extremely destructive and immature.  Her parents weren't monsters, and she wasn't being abused.  She was just an unhappy person who made a very extreme decision to deal with her circumstances.  She was very lucky that her choice ended up working out.  The reality for someone in her situation would likely not be anywhere near as pleasant.

 

Yes, I agree with this as well. I understand why Lorelai did what she did, but as an adult I feel like she made a very foolish decision. Was living in a shed truly better than staying with her parents long enough to raise money for an apartment?