One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[dustylil]

I think how you view the Lane/Mrs.Kim situation is also partially determined on your own personal views on religion

 

I'm a contented agnostic and have been for decades. However, I grew up in a neighbourhood where a number of my peers were at odds with the severely conservative religious and/or ethnic restrictions of their families. (Television is the instrument of the Devil!  Never speak to boys! No dating! No dating except in groups and only with pre-approved partners!)

I sympathized with them then (as I do now) but had never thought  my friends were entitled simply do as they wished while living under their parents' roofs.

[txhorns79]

I sympathized with them then (as I do now) but had never thought  my friends were entitled simply do as they wished while living under their parents' roofs.

 

Then I don't understand your argument that Lane had outlets to figure out ways to do whatever she wanted while continuing to live under her parents' roof.  I mean, what's the point of storing "forbidden" objects at school or at a friend's house, if not to do what you want in defiance of your parent's rules?  After all, it wasn't like Mrs. Kim gave Lane carte blanche to do what she wanted so long as it was outside the house.   

Edited March 16, 2016 by txhorns79

[AllyB]

Mrs Kim punished Lane so severely for attempting to go to a picnic with a boy that she pulled her out of school for 2 weeks, lying to the school about why. Granted Mrs Kim was angry about the subterfuge and the lying (and probably that Lane had messed up her chances with a Korean future doctor) but Mrs Kim punished Lane for her dishonesty by lying to the school. Not only extreme hypocrisy but in Mrs Kim's case she was breaking a binding agreement with the school and very possibly the law. If Mrs Kim had ever been reported for that she could have faced stiff consequences and a social worker would very possibly have been appointed to the family. It was played for laughs on the show but it was actually a total abuse of her power as a parent.

Edited March 16, 2016 by AllyB

[themoon411]

There seems to be a very "submit to the fates" attitude when it comes to lane. Lane moved out of her home shortly after she was 18, it wasn't like she was mooching off her mom for years and years.

Most of the living a secret life occurred when Lane was a teenager. It's not like lane had a way to leave. She couldn't legally live on her own. Should she have become a runaway teen? The only other choice was to eat, listen, enjoy, and date things/ people approved by her mother. Should she have led a miserable existence because she had no choice but to be under her mom's roof. It's not like lane was doing drugs and skipping school. Most of her rebellion involved listening to rock and roll and playing the drums. Is it wrong that she tried  incorporate what she loved in her life.

I felt lane hiding things from her mom was actually her being respectful and a great compromise. I know lots of people from traditionalist families that hide things from the parents and the parents are more then happy not to address those lies. For example 25 year olds who sleep on the "couch" of their 30 year old significant other twice a week. The parents are happy to " believe" this lie because at the end of the day it's about going to the trouble to show respect.

[AllyB]

But then, Lorelai does impress me with patience when the parenting gets tough. I could see lots of parents being mean to their kid over doing everything to get them into Chilton and then finding out that she got a D on a test, hid that grade only for the parent to find out on parent-teacher night, and then, overslept and missed the next test. Lorelai had a lot of forebearance about Rory running away to the grandparent's house over a fight in S1 (although again, she kind of has to or it's hypocritical) or missing her graduation to cut school to run after Jess.  She was tough and firm about finding Rory and Dean just post-affair but generally patient and compassionate about the whole thing even when Rory was being extremely bratty.

Lorelai was often a great parent. Not just in the fun, friendly life she lived with Rory but in how she generally trusted her daughter to know her own mind and was there for Rory to talk to through many difficult subjects many parents would not cope with. If Rory had been gay, for example, there is no doubt Lorelai would have loved her and cherished the person she was without hesitation and Rory would have been comfortable in talking to her about it. But there were still some serious flaws in how she parented, flaws that hurt Rory and Lorelai was completely blind to that. She was so busy congratulating herself on being the fantastic parent that she (felt she) never had, that she failed to look at all of her actions critically.

 

I felt it strongly in "There's the Rub." Lorelai tells Emily that she and Rory are best friends first, mother and daughter second. That's, imo, a problematic way to parent. I know parents can be excellent parents and also be great/best friends with their children. I'm best friends with my mum but we are mum and daughter first and foremost. There are just things about a parent/child relationship that are different to a best friend relationship, especially from the parent's side of things. That means that the parent can't pitch a fit to their child or temporarily alienate them like they might with a best friend (if they were immature). And when the child is a teenager, the parent has to give more leeway than the child on an emotional level. It was fine for Lorelai and Rory to be best friends but Lorelai genuinely believed their friendship was actually more important than their mother/daughter relationship and that allowed her to sometimes behave in a very poor way as a mother.

Edited March 16, 2016 by AllyB

[dustylil]

 

Most of her rebellion involved listening to rock and roll and playing the drums. Is it wrong that she tried  incorporate what she loved in her life

 

But she was able to listen to rock and roll and play the drums. She didn't seem to do much else. So she was indeed able to incorporate what she loved in her life. I was only suggesting that she not do them in her parents' home because it was offensive to them and their religious beliefs.

Not only extreme hypocrisy but in Mrs Kim's case she was breaking a binding agreement with the school and very possibly the law. If Mrs Kim had ever been reported for that she could have faced stiff consequences and a social worker would very possibly have been appointed to the family

 

Mrs. Kim probably already knew that Stars Hollow High wasn't  exactly vigilant when it came to student truancy so she likely figured she was safe :)

[themoon411]

It's not like lanes mom would have been fine as long as she listened to rock & roll outside the house. The issue wasn't the location, it was the music. And to be fair she never played the drums at home, and it was mentioned that mrs. Kim would thoroughly not approve of drumming.

[AllyB]

Mrs. Kim probably already knew that Stars Hollow High wasn't  exactly vigilant when it came to student truancy so she likely figured she was safe :)

Well obviously. :) But knowing you can get away with breaking the law doesn't mean that it's ok to break the law. That's actually an even worse lesson to teach her child. "You broke the rules so I'll punish you so harshly that I'll be breaking the law to do so. It's ok though, because I'll get away with it." All Lane learns is that next time, she just needs to make sure she gets away with it too.

[txhorns79]

I was only suggesting that she not do them in her parents' home because it was offensive to them and their religious beliefs.

 

I have no idea why it would matter if Lane hides something from her parents inside the house versus hiding something from them outside the house.  Your original point was that Lane was showing "contempt" for her mother by hiding forbidden objects around the house.  It's not like that behavior would somehow be inoffensive to Mrs. Kim if done by Lane outside the home.  It would be the same deception and have the same effect under your original argument.     

 

 

That's, imo, a problematic way to parent. I know parents can be excellent parents and also be great/best friends with their children. I'm best friends with my mum but we are mum and daughter first and foremost. There are just things about a parent/child relationship that are different to a best friend relationship, especially from the parent's side of things.

 

Lorelai's parenting philosophy would have had a lot of problems if Rory was less of a people pleaser.  Lorelai was blessed to have a mostly obedient daughter, and it is was much easier for her to claim they were best friends, when she rarely had to pull rank and discipline her daughter. 

Edited March 17, 2016 by txhorns79

[JayInChicago]

If Rory had been gay, for example, there is no doubt Lorelai would have loved her and cherished the person she was without hesitation

 

Sorry, I know this is just one point out of many but no. Lorelai was repeatedly shown to think gay jokes were funny and I think she had a very traditional view of gender roles and sexuality.  I'm not saying Lorelai wouldn't have loved Rory had she been gay, but "without hesitation"?  No.

[Sara2009]

Sorry, I know this is just one point out of many but no. Lorelai was repeatedly shown to think gay jokes were funny and I think she had a very

traditional view of gender roles and sexuality.

I'm not saying Lorelai wouldn't have loved Rory

had she been gay, but "without hesitation"?

No.

I have no doubt Lorelai would've loved Rory without hesitation. She might not have understood her sexuality, but she'd still love her unconditionally. JMO

[GreenScreenFX]

Lorelai would have TOTALLY accepted Rory if she were gay. There is no question about that. Lorelei was never one to pay attention to "social norms" and I think she actively rebelled against them. Yes, there were gay jokes, homophobic at times.... However, if Rory were gay, Lorelei would have loved her and respected her just as much. Lorelei seems like she would fully support Rory regardless.

[GreenScreenFX]

In fact, I bet Lorelai would have a rainbow flag on the mail box before Rory even finished the "I'm gay" sentence.

[Melancholy]

I agree that Lorelai would have accepted Rory if she were gay. Lorelai made gay-jokes, as did many in the late 90s/early 2000s, but I thought it was just because they're an easy punchline and not because of any animus to gay people. I do wonder, though, what kind of relationship Lorelai would have with Rory if Rory was a well-meaning girl but born completely average in looks and intelligence with accompanying average, unimpressive aspirations. Like the Harvard Family, would Lorelai be fine with having a daughter who'd never make it on the treadmill and instead of didn't go to college to be a cashier/birthday bunny. Or would Lorelai be OK having a Lindsay? I could Lorelai being well-meaning enough, but clearly showing her disappointment and getting into over-criticizing if she had any reason to find her offspring average.  

[brightside]

I definitely think Lorelai would have accepted Rory if Rory were gay. I think Lorelai would likely be one of those allies that doesn't really know what they're doing and makes a ton of mistakes. Ya know...like most allies. 

[GreenScreenFX]

Well, Loreliai didn't go to college. Rory dropped out of Yale and is a felon. Yet Lorelai is her biggest supporter. I'd say mom will go the distance.

[dustylil]

I do wonder, though, what kind of relationship Lorelai would have with Rory if Rory was a well-meaning girl but born completely average in looks and intelligence with accompanying average, unimpressive aspirations

 

I am just choc-a-bloc with unpopular opinions these days so I'll add another - I never thought being a journalist  was all that impressive an aspiration for Rory to have. And majoring in English seemed an odd choice for someone with a yearning to be a foreign correspondent.

[JayInChicago]

Sorry, guess it's a true UO but I'm sticking to it. Can't see Lorelai joining her local PFLAG. She's really not a joiner.

[brightside]

I am just choc-a-bloc with unpopular opinions these days so I'll add another - I never thought being a journalist  was all that impressive an aspiration for Rory to have. And majoring in English seemed an odd choice for someone with a yearning to be a foreign correspondent.

 

I remember thinking "Well, Rory chose to go to a college without a journalism major...". Yale was always a strange choice, but it obviously had to be Yale because of where the show was set and the structure of the relationship. Honestly, if Rory was thinking it through she would have been looking at Syracuse, Columbia, Boston University, Northwestern, UT Austin, Emerson and USC. Those journalism/communications programs are bar none. She would have majored/minored in communications, political science, or international history...but this isn't a show known for realism. 

[AllyB]

Sorry, guess it's a true UO but I'm sticking to it. Can't see Lorelai joining her local PFLAG. She's really not a joiner.

Do you have to join a group to be totally fine with your child being gay? If Rory were gay the very worst thing she would have had to put up with from Lorelai would have been unending jokes about Rory never having an unplanned pregnancy. On the other hand I could maybe see Emily eventually joining a group like PFLAG and organising very over the top social events for the group. She and Richard would resist it for a while and probably have a knee-jerk reaction of blaming Lorelai somehow but they would eventually come around and accept Rory. But if Lane had been gay I can't see Mrs Kim ever accepting that. Lane would probably be sent to a re-education camp and then permanently off to Korea when that didn't work.

[solotrek]

I am just choc-a-bloc with unpopular opinions these days so I'll add another - I never thought being a journalist  was all that impressive an aspiration for Rory to have. And majoring in English seemed an odd choice for someone with a yearning to be a foreign correspondent.

 

Were we supposed to be impressed with her aspirations of being a journalist? I thought what was impressive were more her academic accomplishments: becoming valedictorian; editor of Yale Daily News; getting into Yale, Harvard, and Princeton; etc...

 

Did the show confirm her major? I know real Yale doesn't have journalism, but did GG-world Yale?

Edited March 17, 2016 by solotrek

[brightside]

Were we supposed to be impressed with her aspirations of being a journalist? I thought what was impressive were more her academic accomplishments: becoming valedictorian; editor of Yale Daily News; getting into Yale, Harvard, and Princeton; etc...

 

Did the show confirm her major? I know real Yale doesn't have journalism, but did GG-world Yale?

 

In season 7 Bobbi asks what her major is and she says English. I don't know if she ever changed it, but it was definitely English her senior year. 

[solotrek]

In season 7 Bobbi asks what her major is and she says English. I don't know if she ever changed it, but it was definitely English her senior year. 

So...who is Bobbi?

 

Edit: Duh. Logan's colleague she was jealous of. Never mind!

 

I suppose she could have minored or even used gen eds to help pad her class variety to something more geared towards journalism on top of all the YDN stuff.

Edited March 17, 2016 by solotrek

[JaggedLilPill]

I don't know if this is technically an UO, but IMO, all of the parents on this show were in some way problematic. I do think Lorelai was a good mom in the respect that she wasn't as controlling or manipulative as Emily and Richard could be, but her stating over and over again that she and Rory were best friends certainly did paint the picture that Loreali was more comfortable being the pal than any type of authoritarian figure, except for a few select moments.

 

Emily and Richard weren't monsters, but I do think they were controlling and manipulative. Well, more so Emily than Richard. I know in Emily's mind Luke wasn't good enough for Lorelai, but to actively sabotage your own child's relationship, I'm not sure I could forgive that. It's crossing so many boundaries it's not even funny. That, to me, was Emily's worst moment....especially after the whole "you're idiots," line to Luke in S1 and calling Lorelai on her feelings for Luke when Lorelai wasn't readily admitting to them. My worst Richard moment was the whole Jason debacle. Yes, Lorelai and Jason lied to Richard, but Richard went into business with Jason knowing full well that there might be consequences, and the way he just left him out in the cold was pretty freaking cold. I don't think Lorelai asking Richard to reconsider what he was doing to Jason meant she had no respect for Richard. And in the end, despite how rocky their relationship could be, she picked them over Jason.

 

Lastly, Mrs. Kim. I think due to my less than favorable opinion of organized religion, I tend to cut Lane more slack in her situation. There wasn't much Lane could do other than become this Stepford child and really give up everything that was important to her. Like others have said, Lane doing that stuff outside of the house is still a deception. I don't know. I just felt for Lane a lot, and I think she gets a bad rap sometimes as this lying deceitful child. She was trying to please her mom and live her life the way she wanted to. Of course the optimal choice would have been for her to be honest, but I don't think she had that honestly as an option. Mrs. Kim would have punished her, etc.

 

Children are not an extension of their parents. They are their own people and yes, their choices may not be what you want/hoped for, but I could never see myself forcing things on my child. I'd rather they be happy. This isn't to say support your child in every decision they make because that's not good either, but the whole "Lane needs to marry a Korean doctor," ongoing joke/theme, it wasn't Mrs. Kim taking Lane's wants or needs into consideration. I do absolutely believe Mrs. Kim came around, but I do think Lane got the short end of the stick. I know people will say if Lane wanted to go to a different college, then she should have paid for it herself, but I see that kind of wielding of power from a parent as extremely manipulative. It places conditions on the child. i.e. I love you, but only if you live your life the way I want you to.

 

Meh, no. Not so much.

 

So, yes, in conclusion, parents on this show were not perfect and all had their flaws. 

[Smad]

I am just choc-a-bloc with unpopular opinions these days so I'll add another - I never thought being a journalist  was all that impressive an aspiration for Rory to have. And majoring in English seemed an odd choice for someone with a yearning to be a foreign correspondent.

I'll go one step further and say Rory wanting to become a journalist/reporter has never made sense to me given Rory's personality. I'm still hoping ASP explains at some point what she was smoking when she came up with that.

[txhorns79]

I'll go one step further and say Rory wanting to become a journalist/reporter has never made sense to me given Rory's personality. I'm still hoping ASP explains at some point what she was smoking when she came up with that.

 

I tend to think it was a way to make a boring character seem more interesting. 

[dustylil]

I remember thinking "Well, Rory chose to go to a college without a journalism major...". Yale was always a strange choice, but it obviously had to be Yale because of where the show was set and the structure of the relationship

 

Yale has long had a highly regarded student newspaper. So Rory going there - and working on the Yale Daily News -  made sense to me. Her academic activities, not so much.

[clack]

Rory wanted to become not just any journalist, but another Christiane Amanpour, who in RL has all the ruthless ambition and manipulativeness of Paris Geller, as you would pretty much have to, to reach that level of success. Does not fit Rory's personality at all.

 

Seems like something ASP would want for Rory, rather than something Rory would want for herself.

[txhorns79]

Yale has long had a highly regarded student newspaper. So Rory going there - and working on the Yale Daily News -  made sense to me. Her academic activities, not so much.

 

I don't know if it included them in the early 2000s, but Yale's English department currently offers classes in journalism.  More specifically, what major did you believe Rory should have had? 

[brightside]

Yale has long had a highly regarded student newspaper. So Rory going there - and working on the Yale Daily News -  made sense to me. Her academic activities, not so much.

 

Going there is fine (plenty of excellent journalists are Yale alums, including Bob Woodward)--but Rory didn't consider or apply to one school with a journalism program. Or communications. She's always had lofty goals with exactly zero consideration about what it would take to reach them. Going to Yale would actually be a better fit for her now strangely--they've since started the "Yale Journalism Initiative" to give selected students career counseling, network opportunities, and internships. It'd be the perfect fit for Rory. 

 

 

I don't know if it included them in the early 2000s, but Yale's English department currently offers classes in journalism.  More specifically, what major did you believe Rory should have had?

 

I can't answer for dustylil, but I would say that someone who wants to be a foreign correspondent would do well to add Global Affairs, History, Political Science or one of the geographic studies majors to their degree. 

Edited March 17, 2016 by brightside

[txhorns79]

but I would say that someone who wants to be a foreign correspondent would do well to add Global Affairs, History, Political Science or one of the geographic studies majors to their degree.

 

That's an interesting idea.  You are likely right that it would have been good for Rory to look into those majors. 

[solotrek]

I don't know if it included them in the early 2000s, but Yale's English department currently offers classes in journalism.  More specifically, what major did you believe Rory should have had? 

That journalism initiative opened in 2006.

[dustylil]

I can't answer for dustylil, but I would say that someone who wants to be a foreign correspondent would do well to add Global Affairs, History, Political Science or one of the geographic studies majors to their degree

 

I would agree. And maybe add a course or two in Economics. Taught by an actual professor, of course. Not one's Grandpa, the insurance industry maven.

[andromeda331]

My worst Richard moment was the whole Jason debacle. Yes, Lorelai and Jason lied to Richard, but Richard went into business with Jason knowing full well that there might be consequences, and the way he just left him out in the cold was pretty freaking cold. I don't think Lorelai asking Richard to reconsider what he was doing to Jason meant she had no respect for Richard

It always bugged me how Richard destroyed Jason because the only reason he became partners with

Jason was to make Floyd mad. He had zero interest in the partnership until Jason points out it would make

his father mad. Richard laughs and boasts about it. So keeping a relationship a secret is the worse, but

going into business with man only to tick off his father is okay?        

[Melancholy]

Was it ever declared that Rory's major was in English? I don't remember anything like that- but of course, I could be wrong. I thought we saw Rory in a number of different classes Economics with Richard, Political Theory with Asher Fleming, Game Theory which she had to drop, literature class with the cute boy who asked her out and then she asked out. I forget that class that Logan and his crew interrupted- I think I remembered it as sociology/politics sounding. I recall that it was hard to pin down her major or even if she only had just one. 

[brightside]

Was it ever declared that Rory's major was in English? I don't remember anything like that- but of course, I could be wrong. I thought we saw Rory in a number of different classes Economics with Richard, Political Theory with Asher Fleming, Game Theory which she had to drop, literature class with the cute boy who asked her out and then she asked out. I forget that class that Logan and his crew interrupted- I think I remembered it as sociology/politics sounding. I recall that it was hard to pin down her major or even if she only had just one. 

 

Yes. As noted above, she says her major is English in 7.05.

[readster]

It always bugged me how Richard destroyed Jason because the only reason he became partners with

Jason was to make Floyd mad. He had zero interest in the partnership until Jason points out it would make

his father mad. Richard laughs and boasts about it. So keeping a relationship a secret is the worse, but

going into business with man only to tick off his father is okay?        

It wasn't any better either when Jason asked Lorelai out. He said: "It would make your parents mad." Lorelai: "You suck." Then she laughs and smiles about it and of course there relationship was off. Looking back, Jason seem to want to make these choices to piss off someone and everyone got into these deals knowing full well that it would. Floyd then fired back on a double hit not only exposing Richard using his pension for the business but also outing Jason and Lorelai, which pissed off Emily and Richard. While I understood Richard's view (oh, so you decide to date my daughter behind my back, when I'm your business partner). Emily acted like Jason was not good enough when he met all of Emily's criteria for who Lorelai should date. Still, I think Floyd was the worst person in the long run, he got mad not just because Jason went into business with Richard, but because he didn't want to inherit the family business. Yet, he was being successful and had even been a "good" kid in college. Just using his parents to pay for college, but he did everything on his own. Until his final appearance, really Jason didn't much wrong outside thinking he had to piss off people like his parents and Lorelai's parents because he could. Another UPO, really his nick name: "Digger" was so misplaced, even when they explained why he had that nickname. It really didn't make sense. 

[AllyB]

So, yes, in conclusion, parents on this show were not perfect and all had their flaws. 

 

Pretty much all of the parent/child relationships we saw in GG were appalling. Christopher and both elder Haydens, Jason and Floyd, Logan and Mitchum, Marty and his crazy family backstory, Paris and her selfish, neglectful parents, Lane and Mrs Kim, Liz and Jess, even Trix not respecting Richard's choice about who he loved etc. Even Michel and his mother who initially appear to get on great turn out to just have a completely superficial relationship. The only people who seem to get on ok with their families have off screen relationships, like Dean and his parents, Max and his, etc.

 

I never noticed it before but on this rewatch it's glaring. And super irritating as it just seems like a lazy, lazy way to make Lorelai and Rory seem fantastically close. Because it's easy for their relationship to seem wonderful when all the other parents are awful.

[AllyB]

I'll go one step further and say Rory wanting to become a journalist/reporter has never made sense to me given Rory's personality. I'm still hoping ASP explains at some point what she was smoking when she came up with that.

That always seemed obvious to me. Journalist has long been the job of choice for smart fictional women. From Lois Lane, to Amy Amanda Allen to Elizabeth Wakefield to April O'Neill when a writer wants to say this female character is smart, modern, hard working and driven, she is written as a journalist or a wannabee journalist.

[dustylil]

Yet, he was being successful and had even been a "good" kid in college. Just using his parents to pay for college, but he did everything on his own. Until his final appearance, really Jason didn't much wrong outside thinking he had to piss off people like his parents and Lorelai's parents because he could

 

With respect, I am not sure Jason did  everything on his own after college. He may well have worked hard but he was groomed as the crown prince to take over the Styles' firm when his father retired. That would give him quite an advantage over other employees.

 

And as to not doing much wrong, he did go into  direct  competition with his father's business in their hometown. That seemed kind of tacky. Why not set up shop in Boston, Philadelphia, New York or even further afield? He could still have worked in partnership with Richard, a  former and recently "retired" employee of Floyd.

And while perhaps not "wrong", it was  stupid of him - at his age - to think he could antagonize people without any consequences. Why would he think Floyd would accept the embarrassment of his own son as a business rival without there being some type of retribution?

Emily acted like Jason was not good enough when he met all of Emily's criteria for who Lorelai should date

 

Except family loyalty. Emily strongly disapproved of Jason's decision to thumb his nose at Floyd by going into business with Richard.

[txhorns79]

even Trix not respecting Richard's choice about who he loved etc.

 

That whole thing was weird.  I know Richard stood up to Trix when she dumping on him over Lorelai's deteriorating financial situation during the fourth season, but he never seemed to care that Trix openly antagonized Emily.   

[Melancholy]

It's possible that Richard stood up for Emily earlier in their marriage but it never affected Trix's behavior so he just buried his head in the sand on that score. But the dig at him for his business sense was a NEW LOW and UNPRECEDENTED and just a shock to Richard, used to being the adored, praised son who could do wrong in his mother's eyes.

 

But really, I kind of think that Richard just accepted Trix's digs to Emily as not great, not understandable to him, nothing he agreed with- but yet, a display of status and thus, sacrosanct. Trix is the matriarch and older grand dame who demands respect- so she gets to call the shots and make Emily jump through her hoops. It's one of the privileges of making it to such an advanced age with so many accomplishments and I think, holding quite a bit of the Gilmore estate in her hands. Richard certainly thinks Emily is owed the same OTT deference with anyone her junior and/or socially/financially inferior. Actually, Emily really was willing and committed to jump through Trix's hoops and be uncharacteristically subvervient even though Emily had to know that there was no getting Trix to like her- and it's exactly because that status-deference. 

 

However, yeah, like in a very similar situation with similar personalities, Richard Gilmore doesn't stand up for his wife against the tyrannical mother in law nearly as much as Robert Grantham stands for Cora when Violet is at all difficult and disrespectful. Violet was never even a eighth as mean to Cora as Trix was to Emily. 

Edited March 18, 2016 by Melancholy

[dustylil]

Richard Gilmore doesn't stand up for his wife against the tyrannical mother in law nearly as much as Robert Grantham stands for Cora when Violet is at all difficult and disrespectful. Violet was never even a eighth as mean to Cora as Trix was to Emily

 

This is Downtown Abbey, correct? I confess to not being familiar with the characters and their plots and machinations.  I found Maggie Smith way too hammy for my taste.

But back to GG. I never viewed Trix as particularly mean. Now I readily concede  Trix was extremely caustic to Emily and words can certainly hurt. But Trix wasn't any nastier to Emily than Emily was to any number of people, including members of her own family, her friends, and service providers at all levels. So I find it difficult to muster  up much sympathy for her or view her as ill-treated  given her own conduct. 

 

I thought Trix's  actions (or lack of them) spoke louder. Although Trix  didn't care for Emily, she didn't interfere in her relationship with Richard beyond expressing her opinion of his intended before their marriage.  Compare that to Emily's behaviour towards Lorelai and her romantic partners. Nor  was there evidence that Trix  meddled  with their child rearing practices. She didn't play much of a role in young Lorelai's life. Although in retrospect, perhaps she should have.  Richard and Emily, on the other hand,  made efforts to undermine Lorelai's parenting and authority even when Rory was a teenager.

 

Nor is there any information that she used her financial resources as a weapon  to ensure  her son and daughter-in-law  did things exactly as she wanted during the course of their marriage. For Richard and Emily money was often a cudgel in their relationship with their daughter.

 

Clearly Trix was a demanding and rude - if infrequent - houseguest. But  she wasn't an interfering mother or mother-in-law, undermining family life. Dreadful as her visits likely were, they were like migraines or severe storms. Once they were over, they were over. And life went on as before. With Richard and Emily,  a person could never be  sure  when or where the next  devious scheme or nasty dig was coming from.

 

In the unlikely event that  I suddenly acquire unpleasant but quite well-to-do parents or in-laws, I know I would prefer the Trix type.

[brightside]

I'm on season 4 in my continuous rewatch of this show, and I thought of another UO (or at least it was unpopular during the TWoP days):

 

I much prefer Tick, Tick, Tick...Boom! and Afterboom to the "Holy Trinity" at the end of the season. I love the whole business implosion storyline! I like Lorelai's fight with Richard over how he's treating Jason, but her ultimate choice of siding with her family. I think the dinner scenes in TTTBoom crescendo so well to the reveal of Floyd's lawsuit and I enjoy them so much every time. The scene where Jason chases after Floyd and it's just Lorelai, Richard and Emily standing in complete silence is simply perfect to me.

Edited March 18, 2016 by brightside

[txhorns79]

I much prefer Tick, Tick, Tick...Boom! and Afterboom to the "Holy Trinity" at the end of the season. I love the whole business implosion storyline! I like Lorelai fight with Richard over how he's treating Jason, but her ultimate choice of siding with her family. I think the dinner scenes in TTTBoom crescendo so well to the reveal of Floyd's lawsuit and I enjoy them so much every time. The scene where Jason chases after Floyd and it's just Lorelai, Richard and Emily standing in complete silence is simply perfect to me.

 

It's a testament to the actors that they are able to say so much with their silence.  You can feel the disappointment, anger and betrayal just hanging in the air. 

Edited March 18, 2016 by txhorns79

[readster]

It's a testament to the actors that they are able to say so much with their silence.  You can feel the disappointment, anger and betrayal just hanging in the air. 

I agree, their silence and Jason and Floyd in the background made it such a compelling scene. Well acted and written. I really felt bad for Jason there, but at the same time, he brought it all on himself. Same with Floyd, he pushed Jason to the point he didn't want to be his successor and they now were now truly at odds with each other. Plus, the final scene between Floyd and Richard was also amazing the entire: "And Jason is out?" "Jason is out." And then just no more words but the birds chirping in the background as they walked the golf course. Wow! What a scene.

 

 

Clearly Trix was a demanding and rude - if infrequent - houseguest. But  she wasn't an interfering mother or mother-in-law, undermining family life. Dreadful as her visits likely were, they were like migraines or severe storms. Once they were over, they were over. And life went on as before. With Richard and Emily,  a person could never be  sure  when or where the next  devious scheme or nasty dig was coming from.

How very true, Trix while putting out information n Richard's 3 week borrowing money over a bad deal and her writing the letter before his and Emily's wedding and then deciding to just lock it away forever. Trix was very well spoken and when she didn't like something, she expressed in some way, but at the end of the day, she knew when to choose between anger and being respectful. The letter being found by Emily and Lorelai after Trix's death was shocking, but it also told volumes of Trix's character. She choose to lock the letter away and let Richard and Emily get married. Emily had extreme opinions on Lorelai's choice of men or relationships. Her biggest reason for trying to break up Lorelai and Luke was over status and acting like Chris was some prize winning horse in the Kentucky derby and still said he was a moron, but a better choice given his family. Instead of some diner owner. Plus you add in Richard basically sneaking in the Yale interview for Rory or his secret lunchins with his ex-fiance and what he did to Jason and even letting Emily do the sabotaging of Luke and Lorelai. 

  This was stuff that Trix wouldn't have done given the situation and would have kept the dislike openly private with insults or other things, but wouldn't flat out say to the person's face: "I hate you, get out of town, I wish you would never have been part of my family." 

[andromeda331]

That was a great scene. My favorite part the comes later when Emily of all people goes to Richard to

talk him out of going after Jason. Not because she was happy that Lorelai lied to the because she

wasn't. But she was more worried after overhearing him and Lorelai, that Lorelai wouldn't come back.

The way she softly tells Richard she worries that by attacking Jason, that Lorelai will walk and so will

Rory.

[readster]

That was a great scene. My favorite part the comes later when Emily of all people goes to Richard to

talk him out of going after Jason. Not because she was happy that Lorelai lied to the because she

wasn't. But she was more worried after overhearing him and Lorelai, that Lorelai wouldn't come back.

The way she softly tells Richard she worries that by attacking Jason, that Lorelai will walk and so will

Rory.

Which was a type of growth from Emily I just loved, as many have said, these three episodes were fantastic just before the show's decline the following season. I love Emily here and her reasons, but then doesn't take her same advice that lead to Wedding Bell Blues. I swear it was a podEmily from the one in season 4 and the evil mustache twirling Emily we got in Season 5 and 6. 

[andromeda331]

One part that always confused me and maybe I'm wrong was Richard seemed really upset that

Jason was going to be Floyd's successor. Why was he surprised by that? He worked at Floyd's

company for years, I doubt it was a secret to anyone that Floyd was grooming his own son

for the job. Richard lived in a world where that was the norm.

[txhorns79]

The letter being found by Emily and Lorelai after Trix's death was shocking, but it also told volumes of Trix's character. She choose to lock the letter away and let Richard and Emily get married.

 

My understanding was the letter Emily found was a copy of the original that Trix kept for the family archives.  I thought we were supposed to believe she did give the letter to Richard, and he chose to ignore her warning.  That was part of the reason Emily was so upset.  It wasn't just that Trix wanted Richard to humiliate Emily by leaving her at the altar, it was that Trix kept a copy of the letter for posterity to signify her deep and continued dislike of Emily.  Presumably she understood that the note would likely be found after she died, and there was a good chance that Emily might be the one to find it.