One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[txhorns79]

Firstly, I'm not American, so I'm not totally versed on how GPAs are calculated... especially at the high school level. I remember Rory entering Chilton in the middle of the year and struggling a bit.. even getting a D on Max's test. Then in their senior year, Paris gets an A- on a chemistry test I believe and starts freaking out because she's "never gotten anything less than an A". If that's the case, how did Rory become Valedictorian? I

 

I think we are supposed to imagine she did lots of extra credit to make up for the "D."  Though at my upper school, if you entered after ninth grade, your grades weren't counted for the purposes of determining who was valedictorian, so it would be surprising that Rory would be valedictorian even though she entered in tenth grade. 

[LostWithSawyer]

I am doing a re-watch, and I just watched 'Paris is Burning' in season 1.  This might sound silly, but it really bothered me that Lorelai  forced Rory to answer the door when Max came to pick her up. Rory pleaded and begged her not to have to see him, said she was uncomfortable, said they had a mom-daughter deal that she wouldn't be there when he arrived, said Lorelai was breaking the rules, etc, and Lorelai's response was to say, well, just this once because I'm not completely ready for the date. Seriously?! Why would a mom put her kid in that situation, especially over something as mortifying as dating her teacher?!  I think this is the first time in the series that I can recall thinking that Lorelai was selfish. I don't know why it bothered me so much!

[timimouse]

Noted. I just wanted to know if it was possible at all in the real world. Thank you!

[JayInChicago]

Rory got extra Rory points!

[Melancholy]

I fanwanked that Paris fucked up her GPA with her Epic Season 3 Post-Harvard Meltdown. Paris spent like weeks in bed, and it could have been unexcused absences and Paris could have taken failing grades on some assignments with stickler teachers. I also get the impression that Paris was generally distracted in S3 from school because of Jaime and not getting into Harvard. I wouldn't be surprised if Paris was at the top of the class right up until mid-senior year when it really matters anyway for college admission but her S3 problems dropped her down below Rory and Brad. 

Edited March 14, 2016 by Melancholy

[Guest]

I agree with the UO about Logan thinking they were broken up. If I remember correctly, Rory refused to talk to him at all, so he really had no way to confirm whether or not they were broken up.  She knew he thought they were broken up based on Honor's Thanksgiving call.  

[takalotti]

A rather low level UO of mine...

I think Rory could actually be a really good journalist.

I get where most viewers are coming from when they say Rory would be better suited to being an editor rather than a journalist. She doesn't have the powerful, go-getter, "don't take no for an answer" personality that her journalistic idol does.

But I could see Rory's lack of aggressiveness actually work for her. In today's "paparazzi"-like culture, where 20 people with microphones are all shouting at someone leaving the courthouse, Rory would kind of stand out. She might find some back door way to get in touch with a person, and they might be more likely to respond to that rather than the shouters. I could even see her in the Middle East and having the female civilians there be more receptive to her than other journalists and thus opening up to her.

[txhorns79]

I get where most viewers are coming from when they say Rory would be better suited to being an editor rather than a journalist. She doesn't have the powerful, go-getter, "don't take no for an answer" personality that her journalistic idol does.

 

I honestly think Rory would be better suited to being an assistant.  She appears to be fairly good at responding to tasks she is given, and appears organized and punctual.  That in and of itself is half the battle, and I've found again and again that good help is extremely hard to find in terms of assistants. 

[amensisterfriend]

I get where most viewers are coming from when they say Rory would be better suited to being an editor rather than a journalist. She doesn't have the powerful, go-getter, "don't take no for an answer" personality that her journalistic idol does.

But I could see Rory's lack of aggressiveness actually work for her. In today's "paparazzi"-like culture, where 20 people with microphones are all shouting at someone leaving the courthouse, Rory would kind of stand out. She might find some back door way to get in touch with a person, and they might be more likely to respond to that rather than the shouters. I could even see her in the Middle East and having the female civilians there be more receptive to her than other journalists and thus opening up to her.

 

You make some great points! For me, it's not just that she doesn't seem to have the thick-skinned assertiveness, energy, persistence, truth-trumps-ALL perspective etc. that I associate with the best journalists, though that's part of it :) It's that the writing and acting for Rory combined to make me think that fiction was always her *true* passion---it's when reading and discussing books that she really tended to light up and seem most passionate and animated to me. Plus, I was always partial to the idea that the rigid Rory would have to open herself up to revising her life plan, realizing that our early childhood dreams aren't always what we're meant to pursue in reality. In any event, I'd far rather watch that than guys vying for her yet again, which...*sigh* :) 

[andromeda331]

Plus, I was always partial to the idea that the rigid Rory would have to open herself up to revising her life plan, realizing that our early childhood dreams aren't always what we're meant to pursue in reality. In any event, I'd far rather watch that than guys vying for her yet again, which...*sigh* :)

I would have loved if they had explored the idea. I was so disappointed that they never did. They had a perfect

opportunity after Mitchum told her she didn't have it. She could have explored different jobs or taking different

classes and figured out what she really wanted to go. Or even tried to stick with journalism to try and be

the journalist she would need to be a foreign correspondent, to prove she really did have it but have her realizing

as she tried that she wasn't cut out for it, and that maybe that wasn't what she really wanted.

[brightside]

I would have loved if they had explored the idea. I was so disappointed that they never did. They had a perfect

opportunity after Mitchum told her she didn't have it. She could have explored different jobs or taking different

classes and figured out what she really wanted to go. Or even tried to stick with journalism to try and be

the journalist she would need to be a foreign correspondent, to prove she really did have it but have her realizing

as she tried that she wasn't cut out for it, and that maybe that wasn't what she really wanted.

 

Same! I really wish Rory had come to the conclusion that she want to be a journalist, but not a foreign correspondent. Her ability aside, her family relationships were always so important to her--I think it would be very hard for her to be halfway around the world most of the time. This is kind of what happened to me--I'm not doing exactly what I thought I wanted to do in high school, but I'm in the same field. Dreams adapt and change...unless you're Rory, apparently. 

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

I think if your reaction to being told you don't "have what it takes" to be a journalist is to drop out of school and give up, you really don't have what it takes.

That said, I think Rory would've done really well on the Boston Globe's Spotlight team. It was deep investigative journalism that involved tons of meticulous research--Rory would've been in heaven. Plus, she really does look and act like a Disney princess; people let their guard down around her.

I really hope she's doing something like that when we see her in the revival. I know she wanted a job that involves travel, but that's what people take vacations for.

[brightside]

I think if your reaction to being told you don't "have what it takes" to be a journalist is to drop out of school and give up, you really don't have what it takes.

That said, I think Rory would've done really well on the Boston Globe's Spotlight team. It was deep investigative journalism that involved tons of meticulous research--Rory would've been in heaven. Plus, she really does look and act like a Disney princess; people let their guard down around her.

I really hope she's doing something like that when we see her in the revival. I know she wanted a job that involves travel, but that's what people take vacations for.

 

It is an investigative team. Spotlight is still around--one of their more recent stories was sparked by a house fire at my friend's apartment and the resulting death of a student at my university. It was a very intense investigation into Boston's "Shadow Campus". I agree--Spotlight would be a good fit for Rory. 

 

I go back and forth on Rory dropping out. To me, the problem isn't that she leaves school--I think her reasoning, while it wouldn't be right for me, is reasonable--she doesn't want to be in Yale not knowing what she's doing or working towards. That's fine, taking a break to get your life in order is something people do. The issue for me was her "He said I can't do it so I can't do it" attitude that led to her thinking she didn't know what she was working towards. She was so ready to believe him no matter what, which to me is the bigger problem. Like. Wut. Get it together, Rory.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

Also, I'm watching "Driving Miss Gilmore" right now, where Mitchum mentions Rory in an interview with the Wall Street Journal. He says she interned for him and is now editor of the Yale Daily News (all true). He says it in a way that implies he mentored her, but everything he says is technically correct and not libelous--in fact, it's downright glowing. She goes off on a rant about how arrogant Mitchum is, which is understandable if typically Gilmorian in its OTTness. But then she actually tries to get the Wall Street Journal to retract it, and I wanted to kill her. You do not demand the WSJ retract something over middle school level pettiness, and you do NOT complain when the king of your prospective field showers you with public praise. There's a later episode where she tells Logan she'd kill for the opportunities he's had, but when she gets one she tries to piss all over it.

[readster]

 

The issue for me was her "He said I can't do it so I can't do it" attitude that led to her thinking she didn't know what she was working towards. She was so ready to believe him no matter what, which to me is the bigger problem. Like. Wut. Get it together, Rory.

I completely agree, and that's why everyone hated the story line because it was: "Are you brain dead?" Plus, as mentioned how Mitchum later praised her for getting it back together and what she did afterwards and she throws it all out the door. They were trying to paint it as: "Mitchum is a big bully, he hurt princess Rory and then he had the gull to praiser her after being an asshole." You can't have the story both ways and what was worst was how Emily and Richard believed that Mitchum said those things when there was constant talk he was a hardass. It was them trying to make a character look bad so you were on another characters side. They did this with: Nicole, Dean, Jess, Anna, Emily and Christopher, but fans, critics and viewers hated that. Much like how Kirk and Taylor did such half assed ideas, but hey, that's Kirk and Taylor, we should smile, take our stupid pills and move on. Instead of people wanting to punch them or kick them out of the building and say: "Stay out! or I'm getting a straining order." Or how Taylor didn't get several lawsuits for abusing his power as Selectman is beyond me. But remember, Emily was only sued by one maid and knew if a blueberry was moved from her perfect basket even if it fell down by gravity. It was someone else's fault.

[solotrek]

I recently read the book "It's What I Do: A Photographer's Life of Love and War" by photojournalist Lynsey Addario. She mainly covered women's rights issues in places like Darfur and Afghanistan but also covered wars in the Middle East and Africa. She was kidnapped and taken hostage in both Iraq and Libya on different assignments. I cannot, in any way, shape, or form picture Rory in any of these settings or situations. Especially due to how increasingly dangerous that line of work has become. Doing a stupid prank with the LaDB is one thing, worrying about mortar fire, sexual assault, and beheadings is a whole other story.

 

I can however see Rory on the outskirts of these issues. For instance, she wouldn't be at the protests at Tahrir Square, but writing a well researched article about the how's, who's, and why's of it. She wouldn't embed herself into ISIS like that crazy VICE reporter, instead, once again, researching the issue and probably going to the refugee camps in Jordan and interviewing the people affected by them. Plus with the elections and government the way it's been going, and whatever time she spent on the campaign trail, I can see her writing some pretty damning things there too. Especially with women's rights issues. With the advent of "podcasts journalism", youtube news channels, things like VICE, and all the blogging sites out there, I can see Rory doing just fine as a journalist. Just not Christiane Amanpour.

 

Though, was Rory's goal in the end to still be a foreign correspondent? I know that's what early seasons Rory was aiming for, but did later seasons Rory still aim for that or just journalism in general?

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

Rory's college years were basically a waste in terms of character. She didn't expand herself or explore anything. She had basically zero curiosity about the world and people around her. And it was touched on in another thread and its absolutely true, she had no passions outside of herself and her hobbies. That's fine in real life, but on tv that is a boring, static character. The overall potential of taking a introverted, naive child and turning her into a strong aware women ready to take on the journalism world was wasted on the character they attached it to. Seeing her make sacrifices and taking lumps and understanding that life's kinda hard was needed. She needed to start looking outward and caring or at least empathizing with people about issues and problems. We needed to see her develop a passion for telling their truth and their stories, but Amy was too focused on Rory not having to change and being perfect as she is, to ever get anywhere interesting with the character.

[readster]

Rory's college years were basically a waste in terms of character. She didn't expand herself or explore anything. She had basically zero curiosity about the world and people around her. And it was touched on in another thread and its absolutely true, she had no passions outside of herself and her hobbies. That's fine in real life, but on tv that is a boring, static character. The overall potential of taking a introverted, naive child and turning her into a strong aware women ready to take on the journalism world was wasted on the character they attached it to. Seeing her make sacrifices and taking lumps and understanding that life's kinda hard was needed. She needed to start looking outward and caring or at least empathizing with people about issues and problems. We needed to see her develop a passion for telling their truth and their stories, but Amy was too focused on Rory not having to change and being perfect as she is, to ever get anywhere interesting with the character.

Exactly! The entire LADB, quitting school because of Mitchum telling her she didn't have it. The affair with Dean, living with her grandparents and neither thinking what it would be. This wasn't Rory getting a wake up call, it wasn't her growing as a character, it was her retreating because the world wasn't fair and everyone since then called her perfect and that the world was her oyster. However, they also did it that people are cruel and stupid and will ruin things for you because they can and no one will believe someone could ever think that way. That no one will pay for their consequences and that in the end, Rory and everyone else will go back to their simple sweet status quo because the writers and creators of the show don't know how to write it or live in their own fantasy world. It was like with my main problem with Christopher's character after over 20 years in real time, no one would move on from: "You should be married and be one big happy family and aren't because Lorelai ruined it because she didn't agree with the deal and ran away from home!" 

[txhorns79]

It was like with my main problem with Christopher's character after over 20 years in real time, no one would move on from: "You should be married and be one big happy family and aren't because Lorelai ruined it because she didn't agree with the deal and ran away from home!"

 

I think the real unpopular opinion was that Rory wasn't really an interesting character, particularly in the later seasons.  I always found the Emily/Lorelai relationship endlessly fascinating in a way than I never did with Lorelai/Rory.  I think I would have been fine if Rory had transferred to Outer Mongolia University and the series shifted to focus mostly on Lorelai and Emily.   

[penbrat]

I think the real unpopular opinion was that Rory wasn't really an interesting character, particularly in the later seasons.  I always found the Emily/Lorelai relationship endlessly fascinating in a way than I never did with Lorelai/Rory.  I think I would have been fine if Rory had transferred to Outer Mongolia University and the series shifted to focus mostly on Lorelai and Emily.   

I agree and I found the relationship between Laine (sp?) and Mrs. Kim equally as fascinating as the one between Lorelai and Emily.  I could have done without Rory and watched a show about these two sets of mother daughter dynamics

[snarktini]

Is it an UO to say I would have had the same reaction as Rory to Mitchum's criticism? Even though I agree quitting was stupid and probably means you don't have "it", it may have destroyed me the same way.

 

Rory and I have a fair amount in common, both good girl, straight A, people pleaser types. And I have been there -- a critical voice can stick like glue. Of course it's ridiculous to let one single setback dissuade you from your dreams. But a respected person who tells you the one thing you're most terrified of...that can leave an indelible mark. There are things I've never been able to fully shake, even decades later. To this day, that one voice can overtake all the others.

 

Unrelated follow-on: I'm like Rory. My brother is like Lorelai -- rebellious, a little reckless, felt disapproved of by our somewhat conservative and authoritarian parents. Their different dynamics with Richard and Emily feel a lot like us. I was simply easier, so parental stuff just rolled off my back. I didn't see it until much later. My brother acted out as a teen and left as fast as he could. (Like Lorelai, it was pretty minor acting out, in hindsight.) He'd have been happy to walk away from them, even though he and I are super close. Luckily Mom is way more kind and less prideful than Emily so she kept trying, even though things were strained for a decade and a half. This is why I have such a hard time with Emily and Richard. They didn't try hard enough to accept and reach out to their child.

[readster]

 

This is why I have such a hard time with Emily and Richard. They didn't try hard enough to accept and reach out to their child.

Especially when they were still hung up things that should have been long buried *cough* Christopher *cough*. Emily's pride just never knew when to end, and she didn't realize when it was more hurtful than good when it was too late. She realized when Lorelai left with Rory, when her and Richard were separated briefly (though the entire situation with Penelin was completely stupid!). Plus, her going to the point she felt that Lorelai marrying Luke would make her look bad. Lorelai didn't help matters, she either made jokes or looked for ways to piss off her parents if the opportunity arose, which did get irksome after awhile. The wedding planner situation comes to mind. Plus, as soon as Lorelai decided to pay Emily back with the money she got from the property sell off. She saw it as a way to stop having a sword over her head instead of realizing now with the money out of the way, maybe they could start actually being a family without obligations. Something Emily didn't want to admit too and why she got so upset and why Richard didn't want Lorelai using the money for that or even mentioning it to Emily. 

  Something I'm hoping for the revival is that Emily and Lorelai finally settle things for good, enough pride because much like Richard, one day Emily is going to die and then what? Stay mad at a dead person? I've seen too many family members still bitter on that when you go: "They're dead!" "What's the point anymore?"

[txhorns79]

Something I'm hoping for the revival is that Emily and Lorelai finally settle things for good, enough pride because much like Richard, one day Emily is going to die and then what? Stay mad at a dead person? I've seen too many family members still bitter on that when you go: "They're dead!" "What's the point anymore?"

 

Didn't they kind of resolve things in the finale, or at least they got to a point where Lorelai agreed to regularly attend the FND with no coercion? 

[moonb]

My interpretation of the finale was that Lorelai would maintain a relationship with her parents that was better than Christmas/Easter only of the previous years. As to the quality...that's debatable. I *do* think we saw some real signs of Lorelai's growth with regard to Emily in season 7 - identifying with her about how it felt to have Rory leave in Gilmore Girls Only being the most obvious example. It's harder to know with Emily because she kept reaching out and regressing, like in I Am a Kayak. Her last finale scene was offering Lorelai another loan, lol.  Whether that's their idea of peace and forgiveness....well, you could argue either way. 

 

Something I'm hoping for the revival is that Emily and Lorelai finally settle things for good, enough pride because much like Richard, one day Emily is going to die and then what? Stay mad at a dead person? I've seen too many family members still bitter on that when you go: "They're dead!" "What's the point anymore?"

 

I really hope for this because that much anger irl would impact a living person's health eventually....that's why forgiveness, like funerals, is for the living. I could see Emily or Lorelai's old age being eaten up with that if they didn't work toward some kind of peace. My aunt is still furious at my grandmother for her bad treatment of her, and my aunt is almost 80 years old, and her mother's been dead for 30+ years. It's pretty unhealthy. 

Edited March 16, 2016 by moonb

[amensisterfriend]

I really hope for this because that much anger irl would impact a living person's health eventually....that's why forgiveness, like funerals, is for the living. I could see Emily or Lorelai's old age being eaten up with that if they didn't work toward some kind of peace. My aunt is still furious at my grandmother for her bad treatment of her, and my aunt is almost 80 years old, and her mother's been dead for 30+ years. It's pretty unhealthy.

 

But were they really still all that angry by the end of the series? The nonstop 'one step forward, three steps back' dance of dysfunction did grow tiresome, and certainly AS-P had trouble throughout the series navigating that tricky line between showing clear and consistent progress in the Emily/Lorelai relationship while still allowing for enough conflict to keep things realistic, 'dramatic', amusing, and/or engaging. But I actually think that the S7 finale left things in a really good place with Lorelai/Richard and Emily and thought those scenes were really well done. Granted, we'd yet to see whether their relationships could remain healthy for more than a few episodes at a time, but I loved how we saw Lorelai wanting to continue FNDs even without Rory around and all that implied. 

 

The more general UO here is that I was actually satisfied with how nearly everything was left in the S7 finale, which may be one reason why the revival feels kind of unnecessary to me, especially after so many years have passed!

 

 And in response to a lot of the above comments that my computer won't quote at the moment...I love Rory. I can't help myself :) I totally agree that there are definite flaws in how she was written and the relative lack of consequences, growth etc. she experienced through the years, but she's still a character I adore and relate to (despite being way older and, sadly, not looking like Alexis Bledel!) I'd even go as far as to say that of the main GG characters---Lorelai, Rory, Emily, Richard and Luke---Rory is by FAR the one I'd connect with and like most in real life, or at least find least irksome to spend a large block of time with :) I know that's unpopular, but at least I'm in the right thread!  

[walnutqueen]

Forgiveness is a highly overrated religious/pseudo-therapeutic concept, as is the notion that righteous indignation or animosity will "eat you alive" and "make you sick".  My 85 y/o Mum hates her own dead mother; as it turns out, not just for all grandma's awful behavior during my lifetime, but for something awful that happened during the war.  Some actions really are unforgivable, and I'm not about to fault my Mum for her feelings.  If I had known what my grandma did to her, I would've had hate in my heart, too.  But Mum shielded me from that ugly truth until after grandma was long dead - because she loved me enough not to poison me against a grandma I also loved.  Oh, and my Mum wasn't exactly in line for any Mother of the Year awards or anything.

 

Lorelai was a total pill, but at least she didn't try to tear down and undermine her own daughter at almost every turn like Emily did.  Lorelai didn't hate Emily - she just didn't trust her.  She eventually came to a place where she could pity and accept Emily for what she was, but I doubt she'd ever forgive and forget.

 

Crap, now I just defended another annoying character.

[txhorns79]

Lorelai was a total pill, but at least she didn't try to tear down and undermine her own daughter at almost every turn like Emily did.  Lorelai didn't hate Emily - she just didn't trust her.  She eventually came to a place where she could pity and accept Emily for what she was, but I doubt she'd ever forgive and forget.

 

I don't think for a moment that Lorelai ever pitied Emily.  I would agree she came to a place where she better understood and accepted her mother, but I don't think it was ever really an issue of forgiving or forgetting because that wasn't how Lorelai was when it came to Emily. 

[moonb]

Yeah, I think Lorelai is correct not to trust Emily, given Emily's actions. That's different from being angry with her, imo. We didn't see too much of Lorelai's genuine anger at her parents with the exception of Emily's meddling in her relationship with Luke....other than that, it's closer to a teenager's "hating" her parents.  When I was speculating on Emily's anger at Lorelai I was thinking of this interview with Kelly Bishop, in which she discusses Emily's inability to completely let go of their conflict, whatever that may mean for the revival. 

Edited March 16, 2016 by moonb

[andromeda331]

There's more then just Lorelai hating her parents the way a teenager does at least to me. Lorelai has

stated over and over how miserable she was growing up with her parents. During her fight with

Emily at Rory's 16th Birthday party she talks about how Emily tries to control people and when

that doesn't work she shuts them out. And other time a little later in Season One Lorelai tries 

after Emily sees the potting shed and Lorelai tries to talk to her and explain that she was a

very unhappy kid. But Emily just gets mad and storms off. Emily wants her daughter living

the life she wants Lorelai to lead. She may want Lorelai in her life but on her terms. She

doesn't what to hear how unhappy, she doesn't want to work though the problems in

her relationship with Lorelai.  Emily fails or refuses to see any part she played in her daughter

being unhappy or in their difficult relationship. In her mind, its all Lorelai's fault. 

[Melancholy]

There's more then just Lorelai hating her parents the way a teenager does at least to me. Lorelai has

stated over and over how miserable she was growing up with her parents. During her fight with

Emily at Rory's 16th Birthday party she talks about how Emily tries to control people and when

that doesn't work she shuts them out. And other time a little later in Season One Lorelai tries 

after Emily sees the potting shed and Lorelai tries to talk to her and explain that she was a

very unhappy kid. But Emily just gets mad and storms off. Emily wants her daughter living

the life she wants Lorelai to lead. She may want Lorelai in her life but on her terms. She

doesn't what to hear how unhappy, she doesn't want to work though the problems in

her relationship with Lorelai.  Emily fails or refuses to see any part she played in her daughter

being unhappy or in their difficult relationship. In her mind, its all Lorelai's fault.

 

I think that street went two ways. Lorelai also failed to see any part of how she deeply betrayed and hurt her parents, and actually continues to do so throughout the series, frequently deliberately. And while they may not have been the specific parents that she'd pick if she was shopping at the Parent Store, they were actually decent parents and not garbage that deserved to be thrown away out of her life until they paid their way back in and then Lorelai would whine about how she had to interact with them at all. I know lots of families with a lot of scoldy, rigid, angry, smothery people in it who are a lot more annoying that Richard/Emily. Given how much work people do as a family to stay together, even with the less desirable elements of the family, Lorelai's actions are an anathema to me. 

 

I know that Lorelai made these little self-pitying breathy crocodile tears speeches where she gave a nod that she was at fault for part of their bad relationship, but it was really just a cover to get people to feel sorry for her or passive-aggressive bash Emily/Richard or passive-aggressive justify why she was shutting them out. I actually really hate Lorelai in those "Why don't you throw me out and adopt Christopher! You like him", "You're the great white hope unlike bad rejected me....oh, this isn't a 'feel sorry for me" speech" declarations of phoniness. It's my least favorite quality of hers.

 

Maybe my UO is that I saw Emily make a LOT more compromises than Lorelai. Emily figured how to accept Luke so much that she bought Lorelai/Luke their own house and tried to be a welcoming future mother in law to Luke after WBB. She openly admired Lorelai's inns and work. She'd still snark about it, but she more and more accepted Lorelai's Stars Hallow life. I do think Lorelai learned to respect her father, but other when they were financially aligned ala the S4 catering party, Lorelai generally had utter contempt for Emily and treated her accordingly. It's a classic case that Emily was born too early- and thus, she was a figure of contempt for a third-wave feminist.

 

Maybe another UO is that I hate Lorelai so much when she assumed Emily is some gold-digging bitch who evidently didn't love Richard at all in the hospital in S7 just because Emily was focusing on practical realities instead of breaking down some Lorelai-Approved script. I mean, what the fuck. Lorelai will really just look for any hoary reason to hold Emily in contempt, because Emily as the Villain is a key part of the Lorelai Self-Made Woman Mythology. We got a meta version of that in the travel magazine. Lorelai feeds her ego by having zero respect for Emily and acting like she was this abused child who might as well been living in Hitler's or Stalin's household (a frequent comparison of Lorelai's). 

BTW, Lorelai went into business with post-S4 Sookie, actually looked to keep Michel in her life, practically embraced Taylor and Mrs. Kim, forgave Chris all of his transgressions- she actually had lots of room for toxic, difficult, dysfunctional people. In a lot of ways, she looked for them. But she acted like dining with IMO, generally more benign, loving E/R was utter hell and pain. (Note, I said "acted". I think Lorelai secretly had fun at the FDNs- the food, the booze, taking the piss out of her parents, "Mozart, mind games, good times". Again, I think this is all about Lorelai's self-mythology.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Melancholy

[dustylil]

I always figured if Lorelai disliked her parents all that much she wouldn't have made those Christmas/Easter/Thanksgiving schlepps to Hartford - with a child in tow - for all those years.

[AllyB]

During her fight with Emily at Rory's 16th Birthday party she talks about how Emily tries to control people and when that doesn't work she shuts them out.

I've just rewatched the first two seasons and this also how Lorelai behaves towards Rory. When Rory fell asleep after the dance Lorelai barely talked to her for weeks. When Rory asked Lorelai why they went on a road trip instead of Lorelai getting married, Lorelai refuses to talk to her and tbh, Rory had prepared herself to have a stepfather, her teacher as a stepfather, and with no warning Lorelai changes that. No matter how much Lorelai was hurting, she had to talk to Rory as much as Rory needed to. When Rory tells Emily about the termites Lorelai doesn't talk to her for a couple of days. I remembered Lorelai refusing to talk to Rory until Rory went back to Yale, which I thought was horrible of her. (You can know your adult daughter is making a huge mistake and be unhappy about it, but you don't cut her out because of it.) But I didn't remember that Lorelai had constant form for it. It's my first time watching GG as a parent and it makes my insides curdle to see how Lorelai sometimes treats Rory. There is quite a bit of emotional blackmail and withdrawal of affection when Rory displeases her alongside extreme praise when Rory is good. It raises a lot of questions about how Rory became such a people pleaser.

My unpopular opinion being formed during this rewatch is that deep down Emily is kind of a sweetie. I really like her more and more with nearly every episode and I just feel so sorry for her all the time. She and Lorelai are actually extremely alike, they just grew up in different times and Emily was happier to live the life prescribed to her. She is funny, has a very sharp wit. She loves deeply but hurts so much. I think that all the Gilmores would be much happier people if Lorelai had let her parents in after she moved out. She could have laid down boundaries and controlled the relationship, in a way that she couldn't once she was indebted to them for Chilton. It would have been tough going, with lots of forward and backward steps but eventually Emily and Richard would have accepted the new status quo and slowly come to respect Lorelai as a parent and an adult. Emily would have eased up on her social rigidity as she would have had a warm relationship with her daughter and grand-daughter and Lorelai would have learned to ignore Emily when she did fall back to her sharp comments. Just like most parents and adult children.

 

Emily and Richard never seemed bad enough to warrant the level of estrangement Lorelai subjected them to. Yes she felt like she was suffocating in the house but so do so many teenagers. Look at Lane and Mrs Kim. Lane suffered far, far more under Mrs Kim (who's behaviour crosses the line into abusive territory on occasion) but they still managed to develop the beginnings of a healthy relationship as adult mother and daughter. And both were happier for it. Lorelai is just extremely immature in a lot of ways and it does hurt the people that care for her.

[txhorns79]

When Rory asked Lorelai why they went on a road trip instead of Lorelai getting married, Lorelai refuses to talk to her and tbh, Rory had prepared herself to have a stepfather, her teacher as a stepfather, and with no warning Lorelai changes that.

 

Lorelai was pretty terrible during the whole Max situation.  It still amazes me that we are told how close Lorelai and Rory are, yet we are simultaneously told that Lorelai never even discussed with Max how he would handle his role as Rory's stepfather until they were days from being married (that's bad on Max too, but I think it's Lorelai's primary responsibility to work that out).  And honestly, if my mom showed up in my room before dawn demanding that we get out of town for some never discussed road trip, I'd probably think she was having a mental breakdown.   

[AllyB]

Lorelai was pretty terrible during the whole Max situation.  It still amazes me that we are told how close Lorelai and Rory are, yet we are simultaneously told that Lorelai never even discussed with Max how he would handle his role as Rory's stepfather until they were days from being married (that's bad on Max too, but I think it's Lorelai's primary responsibility to work that out).  And honestly, if my mom showed up in my room before dawn demanding that we get out of town for some never discussed road trip, I'd probably think she was having a mental breakdown.   

Watching the whole Max relationship I feel like when Max asked Lorelai what kind of parental responsibility he should have that the relationship was over for Lorelai. She just hadn't considered any sort of co-parenting scenario. Rory was hers, Max was hers and they'd both rub off each other nicely around her. Rory and Max having a relationship with each other outside of Lorelai was never on her agenda. Once she realised that marrying Max would include a degree of 'sharing Rory' she wanted out. If Max and Lorelai had dated until Rory started Yale they would probably have gotten married and had a fairly happy marriage. And the relationship would probably have been very good for Rory because I think Max would have helped Rory learn about consequences and empathy for others. Because he liked Rory, appreciated her drive and intelligence but he didn't treat her like she was a 'very special child' as all the Gilmores did.

 

Full disclosure, I've had a thing for Scott Cohen since The 10th Kingdom (he was originally the only reason I watched GG which in Ireland aired in the same slot as off-season 7th Heaven so I was very, very, very wary of it at first) but Max would have provided the most stable family for Rory and would likely have matured Lorelai and helped improve her relationship with Emily and Richard. I would have loved to have seen Lorelai and Max interact more with E&R. Emily and Richard would have toned their behaviour right down around him because Max would have stopped them if they didn't. Just imagine the Dean and Richard scenes in Sadie, Sadie if Max had been present. There was no way he would have let Richard be so abusive toward a perfectly nice boy and he would have had the authoritative skills to shut Richard down.

Edited March 16, 2016 by AllyB

[solotrek]

Maybe another UO is that I hate Lorelai so much when she assumed Emily is some gold-digging bitch who evidently didn't love Richard at all in the hospital in S7 just because Emily was focusing on practical realities instead of breaking down some Lorelai-Approved script. I mean, what the fuck.

 

Yeah that was kind of absurdly over the top of Lorelai, it's like she was discounting over 30 years of marriage and just made the worst of assumptions. Plus, sometimes people just act oddly when their loved one is in the hospital as a coping method. I saw my aunt spend 2 hours at my grandfather's wake telling my brother that he was the greatest failure in our family and that our grandfather died disappointed in him. But everyone just let her be (including my brother) because we knew how hard it was for her since she loved her father that much. Heck, Emily was behaving a lot more rationally than most and holding it together better than I would have been.

Lorelai feeds her ego by having zero respect for Emily and acting like she was this abused child who might as well been living in Hitler's or Stalin's household (a frequent comparison of Lorelai's).

 

Don't forget also comparing her to Pol Pot. Honestly, all those comparisons and off-hand jokes tell me just how immature, over dramatic, and over the top Lorelai was. Gee Lorelai sorry your rich parents were a little overbearing, it must be exactly like living in constant fear of being executed, thrown in a gas chamber, or going through a famine where millions of people die. Get over yourself. It made me LOL when Mikhail (that ballet dancer Emily sponsored) stormed off because he read the interview where Emily was compared to Stalin, and Stalin had the guys entire family murdered or something. Mikhail was probably trying to get away from Lorelai, because anyone who casually says things like that are just not worth being around.

 

But I didn't remember that Lorelai had constant form for it. It's my first time watching GG as a parent and it makes my insides curdle to see how Lorelai sometimes treats Rory. There is quite a bit of emotional blackmail and withdrawal of affection when Rory displeases her alongside extreme praise when Rory is good.

 

Their relationship has always felt odd, thanks for figuring out why for me. I definitely see what you're talking about. Ignoring a person who upsets you works when you're talking about friends (and really something more childish than anything), but absolutely doesn't work in a parent-child setting.

 

Lorelai was definitely in the wrong with the Max situation in regards to Rory. And I agree with AllyB that Max would have definitely helped mediate a lot of the issues in the later seasons had he been around. He was a strong personality who really fought back against Lorelai when needed, but also wanted to talk over issues that popped up. I can't see Lorelai's Yale meltdown BS going anywhere had he been there. Nor can I see the season 6 rift lasting more than an episode. He was probably the best suited as a stepfather compared to all the other guys Lorelai dated. Jason would have had no relationship; Luke would really cave to whatever Lorelai wanted; Alex would also cave and he had 2(?) young kids of his own; Christopher while not a stepfather was a pretty shitty dad for the most part who seemed to use Rory to get to Lorelai more than anything. I don't think Max would be as impressed with Logan getting kicked out of many prestigious schools the way Christopher was.

 

I do think they ended up making Max a pretty bland and boring character, but in real life and not a TV show, Max was probably the best for that household.

 

Rory is by FAR the one I'd connect with and like most in real life, or at least find least irksome to spend a large block of time with :) I know that's unpopular, but at least I'm in the right thread!

Definitely. Rory is probably the only character in the show I wouldn't run away screaming from within a few minutes of sitting with them. I may have some issues with her as a character for instance: getting together with a married man, and losing her shit and quitting school because of Mitchum; but all in all, she'd be the only bearable person from that show in a real life situation.

[readster]

 

Look at Lane and Mrs Kim. Lane suffered far, far more under Mrs Kim (who's behaviour crosses the line into abusive territory on occasion) but they still managed to develop the beginnings of a healthy relationship as adult mother and daughter. And both were happier for it. Lorelai is just extremely immature in a lot of ways and it does hurt the people that care for her.

 That was my UPO of Mrs. Kim because I saw that too. I mean, many say that Lane was in the wrong, but I said that after we met Mrs. Kim's mom and saw that she had been doing the same with her religion and other beliefs as a 7th Day Advent, I immediately went: "She is a liar and a hypocrite." I'm sure that Grandma Kim was extremely strict and Lane's excuse to Rory and Lorelai was: "Mom is just from this traditional Korean family and that's why she is like that." Yet, Grandma Kim showed no evidence of: "Children shouldn't make the rules." or "BUY something or GET OUT!" I mean, she didn't want Lane watching Sesame Street because she believed Cookie Monster represented gluttony, when she was raised Buddhist. It made Mrs. Kim come across of: "Where the hell did she ever get this, I run the world attitude and you will burn in hell if you don't agree with me." Yet, after Lane left the house Mrs. Kim came to realize she had gone too far, started excepting Lane's life, the band and so forth. I felt that Mrs. Kim and Lane's relationship is what Lorelai and Emily should have had by the end of the series. Because in the process, Lane understood her mother finally and that she shouldn't have hid her "secret stash" to begin with. However, to this day, I'm just wondering why Lane never went: "Why did you turn into this my way or the high way kind of person when you weren't raised that way at all?" 

[txhorns79]

Grandma Kim showed no evidence of: "Children shouldn't make the rules."

 

I would say a better parent would have used Lane sneaking out as an opportunity to revisit the rules of the house to see if compromise was possible, but I actually did agree with Mrs. Kim that children, even adult children, don't get to make the rules in their parent's home.    

[readster]

I would say a better parent would have used Lane sneaking out as an opportunity to revisit the rules of the house to see if compromise was possible, but I actually did agree with Mrs. Kim that children, even adult children, don't get to make the rules in their parent's home.    

Oh no, I completely agree with that too. Its my house and my rules, but at the same time, there should be room for compromise. We lived with my wife's parents briefly when I was unemployed. Trust me, there was no room for compromise in that house and now that we have had our own house for three years. My father-in-law is shocked by the compromises I give, but still keep my foot down. I told him that unlike him, I'm willing to try and look at the other side of things, but its my house and my kids do have to know that, but I don't want them to live in fear that they can't talk to me like his kids did with him, even as adults.

[solotrek]

I think the saddest thing about the Lane/Mrs Kim relationship is that there were clearly things they had in common but were never able to really connect over it because of the wall that was put up. I'm not talking about their rebelling against their mothers, but about their interest and knowledge of music. Mrs. Kim helped Zach write a song and her advice was actually somewhat helpful. She was in a touring tambourine band.Heck, Mrs. Kim had perfect pitch. Honestly, I think it's a parenting failure that Mrs. Kim was so busy putting out draconian rules that she didn't notice and nurture Lane's obvious propensity towards music.

 

I think Mrs. Kim was more at fault with their issues than Lane. Yes, children (young and old) need to obey the rules of the house, but when your rules are THAT strict, then it's quite obvious your child is going to rebel hard. She was just lucky that Lane seemed stuck between doing what she wanted and desperately making her mom happy. And in the end, that was more harmful to Lane than anything. Lane's life would have been significantly better had she cut off her mom completely and just gone off to whatever college she actually wanted to go to instead of applying to where her mom wanted her to apply/go. Or on the flip side, she would have been just fine being the perfect doting daughter doing exactly what her mom wanted. Instead she just ended up in a sad situation and neither one is really happy.

Edited March 16, 2016 by solotrek

[Guest]

I think my UO is that it is not comparable what Mrs. Kim did as a grown woman living a continent away from her mother to Lane breaking the rules while living in her mom's house.  Not so much as a minor when she didn't have options, but as an adult.  

 

Also, I never bought the Mrs. Kim's mom story. I think they shoehorned that in there for added "humor" (or whatever it was that passed as humor in Seasons 6 and 7).

[Melancholy]

I do prefer E/R as parents to Mrs. Kim, at least comparing their childhoods. At least, I'd enjoy growing up Gilmore more than growing up Kim. I got the impression that far more of Lane's childhood went into Mrs. Kim's pit of demands from the non-stop religious stuff, her very idiosyncratic weird contributions to town events where Lane had to comply, the Korean dates, imperious demands for tea or tofo consumption at specific times, highly regulated access to all forms of media from books to TV, only one allowed college choice, etc.

 

Meanwhile with Lorelai, she might complain that she had no air and her parents controlled her, but I heard plenty of opportunities for her live a fun life within their rules. Lorelai went to fun-filled camp and got herself expelled with bad behavior. I think her parents paid for her 99 Luftballoons-playing walk-man and TV in her room and I can't imagine that she wasn't allowed to read or watch generally what she wanted. I heard no demands that she was only allowed to attend ONE college. They didn't suck her time with non-stop religious commitments. Yes, she had to appear at numerous social functions with the correct manners and dress and eat healthy food served to her at the dining room table and hear their criticisms if she gained weight or was expelled from camp or something and fit into their life. However, that's not telling a young girl to sign over literally every waking second of her life and every thought to the parents' demands, as Lane was basically ordered to and only escaped through constant mad-dash deception to have so much as ten minutes at a time to pursue her own wishes. You want to talk having "no air"- that's Lane far more than Lorelai. You want to talk being upset at parents discussing your life plans without you ("I know we’re all upset here folks, but maybe we should ask the kids what they think. Lorelai, Christopher, anything to add here?"), try leaving in fear that you'll be sent to Korea to live and forced to leave your entire life for no reason and without any warning whatsoever or just ordered that you're going to 7th Day Adventist College right when it's college applications time. 

 

Yeah, I feel much worse for Lane (and Logan, and Paris and Jess) in terms of their childhoods than Lorelai. 

 

 

I've just rewatched the first two seasons and this also how Lorelai behaves towards Rory. When Rory fell asleep after the dance Lorelai barely talked to her for weeks. When Rory asked Lorelai why they went on a road trip instead of Lorelai getting married, Lorelai refuses to talk to her and tbh, Rory had prepared herself to have a stepfather, her teacher as a stepfather, and with no warning Lorelai changes that. No matter how much Lorelai was hurting, she had to talk to Rory as much as Rory needed to. When Rory tells Emily about the termites Lorelai doesn't talk to her for a couple of days. I remembered Lorelai refusing to talk to Rory until Rory went back to Yale, which I thought was horrible of her. (You can know your adult daughter is making a huge mistake and be unhappy about it, but you don't cut her out because of it.) But I didn't remember that Lorelai had constant form for it. It's my first time watching GG as a parent and it makes my insides curdle to see how Lorelai sometimes treats Rory. There is quite a bit of emotional blackmail and withdrawal of affection when Rory displeases her alongside extreme praise when Rory is good. It raises a lot of questions about how Rory became such a people pleaser.

 

This is all true. I generally regard Lorelai as a good mom because things are frequently so fun and nurturing and charming between Rory and Lorelai. I still stand by that. However, quite a bit of that is because Rory has such an easy-going, people-pleasing personality that's very well suited to Lorelai's. Similar feminine but fun-loving tastes, but organized as a great compliment to Lorelai's disorganization, quiet as a great compliment to Lorelai's loudness. I do think genetically, Rory was pretty set up to be an ideal best friend for Lorelai- which is big luck. However, yeah, I had a problem with Lorelai's conduct in all of the examples you mentioned. There are other instances too. I wasn't wild about how much Lorelai pushed Dean at Rory, even though it was obvious that Rory was tired of him. I could have done without Lorelai screaming in outrage at Rory over kissing Jess in the middle of the crowded town square. It's negligent that Lorelai had no idea that Rory needed to apply to back-ups besides Harvard and that Rory did so, and I really get why Rory was afraid to even tell Lorelai and that's a bad sign about their relationship if Rory can't even dissent from her mother enough to say that she applied to other Ivy League schools besides Harvard. For an involved parent, Lorelai didn't have the first clue about applying to college. *Emily* checked out magazines on the subject. Lorelai remained in ignorance, other than what Rory told her. Or Lorelai flipping out at Rory just for enjoying a day with her grandfather. 

 

But then, Lorelai does impress me with patience when the parenting gets tough. I could see lots of parents being mean to their kid over doing everything to get them into Chilton and then finding out that she got a D on a test, hid that grade only for the parent to find out on parent-teacher night, and then, overslept and missed the next test. Lorelai had a lot of forebearance about Rory running away to the grandparent's house over a fight in S1 (although again, she kind of has to or it's hypocritical) or missing her graduation to cut school to run after Jess.  She was tough and firm about finding Rory and Dean just post-affair but generally patient and compassionate about the whole thing even when Rory was being extremely bratty.

 

It's really touch and go. No one can't make a hard and fast rule that Lorelai was always great even though it was hard to parent Rory or that Lorelai was just lucky that she got Rory because any trouble exposes their relationship as delicate, at best, and dysfunctional, at worst. (Not saying at all that anyone here was making such a hard and fast rule. I'm speaking generally.)

Edited March 16, 2016 by Melancholy

[dustylil]

I entirely agree that the parents in a home are the ones who make and maintain the rules. And it is up to the parents usually after discussion and negotiation with the children  to determine when and if  these household rules should be altered. I know I did it with my mother and my husband and I did so with our daughter. Sometimes though changes for any number of reasons simply aren't feasible.

 

I think I would have been  a lot more sympathetic to Lane if she had shown the least bit of understanding of - and respect for - the rigid strictures of the Kim family home. They were devout Seventh Day Adventists (even if ASP portrayed that faith most peculiarly). For example, it wasn't a matter of personal taste that caused the ban on rock n roll. Such music was the work of the devil. To allow it into their home was endangering Lane's mortal soul. Similarly with make up, fashionable clothes and less than divinely inspired literature.

 

Lane certainly knew this yet constantly breached the family's and their religion's rules. It is understandable for teenagers to challenge what they have been taught and what they have grown up with. However, Lane had outlets to explore these new interests. She was a welcome and frequent guest at the home of Lorelai and Rory, a hotbed of popular culture. There appeared to be no restrictions on her school activities. She was even a cheerleader for pity sake. Surely she could have kept her taboo items at the Gilmore home or in her school locker.

 

So why the need to bring offensive and blasphemous items into the Kim house? It seemed to me to be  little more than a display of contempt.

 

Perhaps if the Kim family had been identified as simply strict parents then I might have felt differently.

But given that Mrs. Kim (and the elusive Mr. Kim) were concerned with eternal hell fire for themselves and their daughter, then I thought a little more respect on Lane's part was warranted. At least while she was a teenager and living in their home.

 

[readster]

 

However, that's not telling a young girl to sign over literally every waking second of her life and every thought to the parents' demands, as Lane was basically ordered to and only escaped through constant mad-dash deception to have so much as ten minutes at a time to pursue her own wishes. You want to talk having "no air"- that's Lane far more than Lorelai. You want to talk being upset at parents discussing your life plans without you ("I know we’re all upset here folks, but maybe we should ask the kids what they think. Lorelai, Christopher, anything to add here?"), try leaving in fear that you'll be sent to Korea to live and forced to leave your entire life for no reason and without any warning whatsoever or just ordered that you're going to 7th Day Adventist College right when it's college applications time.

That's why I did get Lane's position and how it was portrayed on the series by AS-P and the other writers. They really painted Mrs. Kim as a Dragon Lady at times with rules, I think if they would have kept her strict and not Looney Tunes comedy with: "You buy something or get out!" or "You touch it, then you buy it or get out!" I think I could have dealt with her character better in the first few seasons or at least start taking the turn with her in season 2 instead of after season 4 when everything hit the fan with Mrs. Kim and Lane. My mother even said and I quote: "They are making her a stereotypical Korean bitch who is dedicated to a religion that the writers don't know anything about. Talk about bad writing." 

 

Lane certainly knew this yet constantly breached the family's and their religion's rules. It is understandable for teenagers to challenge what they have been taught and what they have grown up with. However, Lane had outlets to explore these new interests. She was a welcome and frequent guest at the home of Lorelai and Rory, a hotbed of popular culture. There appeared to be no restrictions on her school activities. She was even a cheerleader for pity sake. Surely she could have kept her taboo items at the Gilmore home or in her school locker.

That was the thing too, Rory and Lorelai knew Lane's secret stash and so did her band and from what we heard in passe talking, so do her friends at school. So, the big secret was it was from her mom and while I get she wanted to listen to her stuff in the privacy of her own room. It felt weird she kept everything in the secret floor panel that even Lorelai said was too much. Then Mrs. Kim found it completely by accident even though she was snooping in the room. I'm surprised she never found it before. However, I do agree, Mrs. Kim gave Lane a lot of opportunities when it was something along the lines she didn't feel was a problem. Hence why she was in the school marching band, was able to be a cheerleader, even dating Dave briefly or seeing Rory and visiting the Gilmore Home over the years. However, I never got that Lane ever showed she hated being in a Seventh Day Adventists family and even when sex was first brought up, she said how apparently all that stuff sunk in so it had a point and didn't want to do it without being married (even if the first time even sucked and got pregnant with twins) still find that beyond stupid to this day. 

  What I do want to point out is that I find Mrs. Kim being more in the wrong when you look back at the series than Lane, but Lane isn't completely innocent either. Maybe, just maybe if the series would have bothered having a Mr. Kim instead of a running gag how he was never around or not shoe horning Grandma Kim into Lane's wedding and that Mrs. Kim had been doing the same as Lane all these years. I think we all would have had a better opinion or view of Mrs. Kim instead the harping, bitchy, strict woman she was for the first four years of the show. I consider seasons 5-7 to be the best for Mrs. Kim in not only character growth, but also becoming a person and not a foil to why Lane existed.

Because no matter how much you say it, and another UPO I never got that Lane and Rory were Best Friends, life long friends, but not Best Friends. 

Edited March 16, 2016 by readster

[txhorns79]

So why the need to bring offensive and blasphemous items into the Kim house? It seemed to me to be  little more than a display of contempt.

 

I think that's a misreading of the situation.  It seems like if Lane truly wanted to display contempt for her mother, there would be no need to hide anything from her.  After all, how contemptuous can a person actually be of someone else when they are going to such elaborate lengths to respect the other person's feelings by hiding the offending materials?

[dustylil]

I never got that Lane ever showed she hated being in a Seventh Day Adventists family

 

Then why did she bring items into the home that were believed to be evil and blasphemous?

[readster]

I think that's a misreading of the situation.  It seems like if Lane truly wanted to display contempt for her mother, there would be no need to hide anything from her.  After all, how contemptuous can a person actually be of someone else when they are going to such elaborate lengths to respect the other person's feelings by hiding the offending materials?

That's exactly it! That's why I never saw Lane as being really contemptuous about her mother. She hid these things since she was 9 as she pointed out. Plus, she went into panic mode to even think about displaying something like that to her mother. Remember the purple hair situation? Another thing was being a Seventh Day Adventist family. It would have been easy to say why they ate the way they did instead of: "You eat this or you get nothing!" that they had Mrs. Kim doing. Instead of: "Because it keeps you healthy and we are known to live longer than most people by eating this way." Plus Seventh Day Adventists have a very high standard for college graduates since higher education is highly regarded in the religion, but many members don't go to strictly 7th Day colleges. Many go to community colleges or known state colleges and even go to get PhDs at a regularly young age. Truth be told, I would have loved the real reason why Mrs. Kim, raised Buddhist would turn to Seventh Day Adventists religion. Now, if they would have said that Mr. Kim (If he had ever existed) was already part of that and still from a traditional family. I could have seen him hiding it as well and after becoming a member, Mrs. Kim just went overboard with it, where some people who marry into a different religion do. However, it seems like she went: "Oh, you are strict like my parents were, I'm joining you, screw you Buddha!" 

Then why did she bring items into the home that were believed to be evil and blasphemous?

Because it was AS-P idea of "rebelling". 

[dustylil]

That's why I never saw Lane as being really contemptuous about her mother. She hid these things since she was 9 as she pointed out. Plus, she went into panic mode to even think about displaying something like that to her mother

 

 

Or she was afraid - reasonably so, I thought -  that  her mother might destroy them.

[txhorns79]

Because it was AS-P idea of "rebelling".

 

Also, maybe in Lane's view of her faith, the items weren't evil and blasphemous.  It's something of a reach to argue that someone "hates" a specific religion because they don't follow a parent's dictates on how that religion should be practiced.

 

Or she was afraid - reasonably so, I thought -  that  her mother might destroy them.

 

Then her reason for having the items wouldn't really be about a desire to show contempt for her mother. 

Edited March 16, 2016 by txhorns79

[solotrek]

I think Mrs. Kim stepped over the bounds of parenting at times. For instance demanding Lane raise Kwan and Steve the Mrs Kim way. No, these are your grandchildren who don't live under your roof and you have no right to dictate anything at this point.

I think how you view the Lane/Mrs.Kim situation is also partially determined on your own personal views on religion.

[readster]

I think Mrs. Kim stepped over the bounds of parenting at times. For instance demanding Lane raise Kwan and Steve the Mrs Kim way. No, these are your grandchildren who don't live under your roof and you have no right to dictate anything at this point.

I think how you view the Lane/Mrs.Kim situation is also partially determined on your own personal views on religion.

 How very true, when it comes down to it, both characters weren't perfect, but in the long run I take Lane's side any day. I also agree, I hate grandparents who think their way of parenting was the best. No one's parenting is perfect and to see Kwan and Steve under those guide lines, dear God, never in a million years. It will be interesting to see how they are in the revival as they have been shown in set pics several times. Truth be told, I hope they are just typical 8 year old boys who have talent for music, but still get into trouble, but listen to their parents. No hiding things from Lane and Zach and fear they will be kicked out of the town.