One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[txhorns79]

Yet according to Ms Graham, she had no idea the show was going to be cancelled until after the fact - and the last episode filmed - when her agent contacted her.

 

I think what she actually said was that there had been back and forth over whether the show was going to continue before she got the call.  That would say to me while she may have been surprised when it was finally over, she knew the issue was being discussed.  And it makes sense they would contact her agent regarding her position as an actor, because that would be how it works in that industry. 

Edited January 20, 2016 by txhorns79

[ghoulina]

I do think that Sherri meant well, and there wasn't necessarily any "I've got your man now!" behind her behavior. But I do think she was insensitive to how awkward she was making Lorelei feel. Maybe she didn't know that Chris and Lorelei almost got back together right before she got pregnant, fair enough. But surely she knew how absent Chris had been in Rory's life? Why would Lorelei want to hear about how doting Chris was being with his "second chance baby"? Sherri insisted that Lorelei come to that shower, to the point of threatening to stand in front of her car. Lorelei just wanted to go shopping. I thought that was a bit much. I know she was just trying to be nice, I don't think it was intentionally so she could rub things in Lorelei's face. But I don't think she tried hard enough to see things from Lorelei's point of view, and I can totally understand why Lorelei ended up flipping out. She'd reached her breaking point. 

 

 

I'm not sure if I think Sherri running off to Paris was all that out of character. From what we saw, she WAS massively into her career. We never got a chance to see how into parenthood she was, we never saw her with Gigi. She did give off the air of being a bit of a controlling parent - with all the freaking out about birth not going as planned, and feeling it's more important to get her work done than focus on labor. All the ballerina references made it sound more like she wanted something she could play with, more than an actual child. Sure, she seemed very interested in Rory, but A. Rory was a lot older, more of a friend status. Also, she might have been just trying to really impress Christopher in the beginning of their relationship. 

 

But yea, it's far leap to total child abandonment. It's really hard to say because we didn't see ANY more of her after she gave birth. We don't know how well she took to motherhood, what their relationship was like after that, how her career changed, etc. 

[Melancholy]

I do think that Sherri meant well, and there wasn't necessarily any "I've got your man now!" behind her behavior. But I do think she was insensitive to how awkward she was making Lorelei feel. Maybe she didn't know that Chris and Lorelei almost got back together right before she got pregnant, fair enough. But surely she knew how absent Chris had been in Rory's life? Why would Lorelei want to hear about how doting Chris was being with his "second chance baby"? Sherri insisted that Lorelei come to that shower, to the point of threatening to stand in front of her car. Lorelei just wanted to go shopping. I thought that was a bit much. I know she was just trying to be nice, I don't think it was intentionally so she could rub things in Lorelei's face. But I don't think she tried hard enough to see things from Lorelei's point of view, and I can totally understand why Lorelei ended up flipping out. She'd reached her breaking point. 

 

 

I'm not sure if I think Sherri running off to Paris was all that out of character. From what we saw, she WAS massively into her career. We never got a chance to see how into parenthood she was, we never saw her with Gigi. She did give off the air of being a bit of a controlling parent - with all the freaking out about birth not going as planned, and feeling it's more important to get her work done than focus on labor. All the ballerina references made it sound more like she wanted something she could play with, more than an actual child. Sure, she seemed very interested in Rory, but A. Rory was a lot older, more of a friend status. Also, she might have been just trying to really impress Christopher in the beginning of their relationship. 

 

But yea, it's far leap to total child abandonment. It's really hard to say because we didn't see ANY more of her after she gave birth. We don't know how well she took to motherhood, what their relationship was like after that, how her career changed, etc. 

 

Yes, I agree with all of this. I understood Sherri was being nice and eager to connect with Rory. But I also thought it was inappropriate for her to suggest Rory regularly visiting them on her time off from Harvard. Damn right, I agreed with Lorelai's, "If you have holidays and weekends from Harvard, you spend them with me!" attitude. I don't exactly think that it's ever too late for a deadbeat dad to try to become a real presence in their kids life but yeah, in the limited rations that are vacations in an out-of-state college, the deadbeat dad's wife can shut up about making a claim to any of those weekends as a regular basis thing. Like, it's not hard enough for Lorelai to be dealing with losing Rory as a constant presence in her life in less than a year. I get why Lorelai flipped just from that alone. 

Edited January 20, 2016 by Melancholy

[dustylil]

But surely she knew how absent Chris had been in Rory's life?

 

I always wondered about that. Frankly, I doubt that she did know what little involvement he had in his elder daughter's life. "Not much of a presence" as Sherry  told Lorelai Christopher described his parenting of Rory is rather vague. Did this mean to her  he just missed her school functions? Or was she aware that he didn't pay child support or keep in touch with any regularity?

 

 It is not that I am excessively cynical (oh, who am I kidding), but I found it interesting that his weekly telephone calls to Rory appeared to coincide with his living with thechild friendly Sherry. In the period prior to that, he had not given Lorelai and Rory his current telephone number or kept them apprised of  where he was living. But once he was with Sherry, Christopher ramped up his game and became (at least temporarily) a more attentive father.

the deadbeat dad's wife can shut up about making a claim to any of those weekends as a regular basis thing. Like, it's not hard enough for Lorelai to be dealing with losing Rory as a constant presence in her life in less than a year. I get why Lorelai flipped just from that alone

 

To say nothing of a well-founded claim of Richard and Emily for Rory to spend at least some of those weekends with them.

[Melancholy]

 It is not that I am excessively cynical (oh, who am I kidding), but I found it interesting that his weekly telephone calls to Rory appeared to coincide with his living with thechild friendly Sherry. In the period prior to that, he had not given Lorelai and Rory his current telephone number or kept them apprised of  where he was living. But once he was with Sherry, Christopher ramped up his game and became (at least temporarily) a more attentive father.

 

 

I'm completely with you on Planet Cynical. I often thought that Christopher's stepped up S2-3 relationship with Rory was the equivalent of the Volvo and the job. It wasn't even just about Sherri being child-friendly. There's just these Good Man Markers that women like Sherri with a lot going for them in the wife department (as she was presented in S2-3) look out for. Steady job, willingness to commit, if they have a kid, that they're not a deadbeat dad. A dad who barely speaks to his seventeen daughter and hardly ever visits her is automatically suspect as a long-term boyfriend much less husband and future father of *my* kids, as far as I'm concerned. 

 

Actually, I think the car and job nudges stuck more with Chris. He seemed to drop or really reduce contact to the point that it wasn't worth mentioning in S4-5 after Chris firmly had Sherri, for better or worse, and then lost her suddenly. Chris didn't reach out to Rory again until it a different, although more sympathetic version of, All About Him- his father's death. 

Edited January 21, 2016 by Melancholy

[JayInChicago]

In Christopher Returns, season 1, it is established that they speak to Christopher once a week on the phone, and they last saw him at/around Christmas -- episode is sometime in the Spring, possibly early spring. Though he never visited them in Stars Hollow until that time.

 

Now to me, for a deadbeat dad, once a week telephone calls and seeing at Christmas doesn't really seem that bad. Like yeah, he's still a deadbeat. But what I'm wondering is...if he then regressed to "we don't have his phone number, haven't talked in months, haven't seen in years" *or* if the season 1 depiction of Christopher is just not canon due to continuity.  I am not sure how often a noncustodial parent *would* talk to or see their child.

[Melancholy]

I think Lorelai was being generous with her "once a week". 

 

LORELAI: Yeah. I mean I have not seen this man since last Christmas right. We hear from him maybe once a week - MAYBE. 

 

Lorelais repeated "maybes" felt like over-stating how often Christopher calls, further bolstered at how Christopher doesn't feel like even a once-a-week phone presence for Rory in S1 and S4-6. Even in that ep proper I'd think that if Christopher called every week, Rory would tell him that she had a boyfriend or Christopher would have built up enough of a relationship that Rory would have some inkling on what was going in his life. And they just happened to see him at that last Christmas- I didn't get the impression that they regularly saw him at Christmas or any other time. 

 

I agree that there's no manual on how often a non-custodial parent should interact with their kid to rise above the deadbeat level. I think it's all very subjective. But yes, subjectively speaking, between not paying any child support and didn't seem to help Rory with *any* expenses until he had money to burn*, my impression that he hardly ever called or saw Rory other than S2-3, how he never prioritizes Rory in his seemingly low-stress, not-demanding life (other than his single-parent years), how his different bases of Hartford or Boston should draw him closer but he's never visited her in Stars Hallow until S1 and hardly ever until he and Lorelai started dating, his superficial conversations where he didn't seem to know what was going in her life and he never shared his own life, how there's only a 50/50 chance of him keeping his promises to her....it all adds up to deadbeat for me. 

 

*Really, Christopher should have volunteered to help with Yale at the end of S3 or given Rory some pocket money in S4-5 during Rory's (largely unbelievable) moments of being "skent." OK, he frittered his class birth advantages so he was very poor in S1. However, he seemed to be making upper-middle class yuppie money starting in S2. 

Edited January 21, 2016 by Melancholy

[JayInChicago]

I guess 'once a month' would have probably been a better interval for believable ness.

 

That said season 1 definitely has some blips of ...how exactly often do these people see each other?  LIke Richard's "She's tall" in a wondrous tone about Rory as if he never ever saw her, when it's established the Girls come over to the big house for holidays. I guess she could have had a growth spurt.

also does the 'last christmas' refer to the season one christmas of a few months prior, or the season 0 christmas

[dustylil]

 

Chris didn't reach out to Rory again until it a different, although more sympathetic version of, All About Him- his father's death

 

And then  disappeared soon after. Apparently not long after the vow renewal. He seemingly knew nothing about the yacht theft, the dropping out of Yale, or her moving in with the grandparents. It wasn't until Rory was returning to Yale that he came back into the lives of Rory and Lorelai- some nine months later.Of course, for the last couple of those months he was likely busy counting his newly inherited money.

 

JayInChicago, as to non-custodial parents seeing their child or hearing from him or her, I would expect - based on the responsible ones of my acquaintance - on going contact via whatever technology is appropriate, and scheduled visits (alternate weekends if nearby perhaps or portions of holiday breaks and summer vacations, if some distance apart).

 

LIke Richard's "She's tall" in a wondrous tone about Rory as if he never ever saw her, when it's established the Girls come over to the big house for holidays. I guess she could have had a growth spurt

 

This was September. He may not have seen her since the previous March or April at their Easter meal. Of course, I doubt that he paid much attention to her when she did visit. He seemed unaware that she was a booklover.

[JayInChicago]

maybe they thought it would have been too harsh to audiences if they stated from the beginning that it'd been years since they family had gathered, so they went with what they did.  i dunno. i still find it a little weird though.

[dustylil]

Actually, I rather liked the fact that the two sets of Gilmores did keep in touch, if only a couple of times a year and in a formal setting for each occasion. Especially given that they lived so close.  It seemed more complicated and realistic somehow - each side making a minimal effort to maintain a link -  rather than a complete estrangement. Of course, my own extended family growing up had quite a few dysfunctional elements to it, so my view of realism may be a tad askew.

[Melancholy]

And then  disappeared soon after. Apparently not long after the vow renewal. He seemingly knew nothing about the yacht theft, the dropping out of Yale, or her moving in with the grandparents. It wasn't until Rory was returning to Yale that he came back into the lives of Rory and Lorelai- some nine months later.Of course, for the last couple of those months he was likely busy counting his newly inherited money.

 

The revival will shed some light but I bet that post-S7, Christopher didn't contact Rory under the self-pitying reason that Lorelai broke his heart and made it too awkward for him to reach out to his eldest child for months if not years. Really, what does a Rory-Christopher relationship look like after the Lorelai/Chris ship is really, quite finally put to bed with an actual failed marriage? I have no idea. No idea how Chris interacts with Rory without Chris seeking out Lorelai. 

[Gooey]

My UO is that I don't need to see the whole gamut of GG characters in the revival.

For example, it doesn't make sense for ALL of Lane/Paris/Logan/Jess/Dean to appear in any sort of meaningful way.

Yes, lets see the Townies, but we don't need to see them all or to endure a rambling Kirk subplot for the sake of some misguided nostalgia.

However my guess is that because we are already without Richard and (most likely) Sookie, we'll have to suffer through inane filler where Rory magically bumps into Logan, Jess AND Dean for some Awkward!Flirting! Gah.

Also, count me in with those who most definitely don't want to see a Luke/Lorelai wedding or pregnancy.

Either they married in the 8yrs since the season finale or they never will.

And at 45yrs or so, Lorelai is past the believable babymaking age.

I want them do to a revival in order to continue the story and not just do the trite Wedding/Baby/Kissed My Ex filler. Do something of substance or don't bother IMO.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Gooey

[timimouse]

I have never been a fan of Jess. Ever. Even when he "turned his life around" I found myself rolling my eyes and waiting for him to get off my screen. From reading this thread, I suspect I may be alone in this corner here. However, I will give them this much. Alexis' and Milo's chemistry is UNDENIABLE. From their first scene together, he just blew "pretty boy" Dean out of the water. I don't believe teenagers can fake chemistry like that, so I do believe casting him was a good idea. But OMG that boy annoyed me.

[Kohola3]

From reading this thread, I suspect I may be alone in this corner here.

 

Nope, not alone.  No redeeming features, in my opinion.  Hated him from start to finish.

[JayInChicago]

I think he was an interesting little fork in the road for Rory and thus was valuable to the show. 

[dustylil]

A passing mention of Jess would be sufficient for me. If Ms Bledel's personal circumstances are to be incorporated into the revival storyline, please, please, please don't have him be the father of her child.

From their first scene together, he just blew "pretty boy" Dean out of the water. I don't believe teenagers can fake chemistry like that, so I do believe casting him was a good idea

 

I stand to be corrected, but I think both AB and MV  were in their twenties when Jess entered the series.

[solotrek]

I stand to be corrected, but I think both AB and MV  were in their twenties when Jess entered the series.

 

Yup. However, AB was 19 and JP was 18 when the show started. So I guess there's that.

[Aloeonatable]

 

A passing mention of Jess would be sufficient for me. If Ms Bledel's personal circumstances are to be incorporated into the revival storyline, please, please, please don't have him be the father of her child.

 

I highly doubt that there will be any romance between Rory and Jess, or Rory and any of her exes for that matter. I actually prefer Jess and Rory as friends and I think that if Milo does appear in the reboot, that friendship will be what we see. 

 

I loved the Jess character. I've always believed that you don't have to "like" the character to like, or love, the character and what they bring to the story. I actually loved his relationship with Luke probably more than his relationship with Rory. 

[Guest]

Jess was ok in super small doses Seasons 6 and 7.  I also liked in Season 4 when it was obvious he came back for Luke, not for his mom.  Little touches were nice. However, I have no desire to see more of him.  

[Melancholy]

I loved the Jess character. I've always believed that you don't have to "like" the character to like, or love, the character and what they bring to the story. I actually loved his relationship with Luke probably more than his relationship with Rory. 

 

Yes, I agree with that. I actually think it's not unpopular to love Jess, but I don't know if it's popular to love him. However my impression that while the Rory-shipper wars are genuinely contested between Jess, Dean, Logan, even Mary, Rory/Jess is the most popular of the four. I wonder if it's unpopular to prefer Jess/Luke to Rory/Jess. At any rate, I feel that way. Frankly, I'm a Jess/Rory and Luke/Lorelai shipper who still preferred the guys' relationship with each other to the one they had with their Gilmore Girl romantic partner. 

 

Moreover, this is a weird thought but even though I ship Jess/Rory and Luke/Lorelai, I'd sacrifice Jess/Rory as an endgame because I think it's weird for Lorelai (mother) to end up with Luke (uncle) and Rory (daughter) to end up with Jess (nephew). I mean, it's not *incest*. I guess it's allowed. But it's still....weird to familial ship like that. It's a little like the twin set of girls ending up the twin set of guys in Kill Me Now. 

[dustylil]

because I think it's weird for Lorelai (mother) to end up with Luke (uncle) and Rory (daughter) to end up with Jess (nephew). I mean, it's not *incest*. I guess it's allowed. But it's still....weird to familial ship like that

 

I might have thought it a bit squicky if  Luke and Lorelai had been romantically involved for years and Jess had lived with Luke in Stars Hollow for most of his life, growing up with Rory. But that was not the case.   Rory and Jess didn't meet until they were in their late teens. And Lorelai and Luke didn't begin to date until both Rory and Jess had left Stars Hollow.

I was more concerned with Charles and the first Lorelai. No wonder the Gilmores were so messed up ;)

[Guest]

Yes, I agree with that. I actually think it's not unpopular to love Jess, but I don't know if it's popular to love him. However my impression that while the Rory-shipper wars are genuinely contested between Jess, Dean, Logan, even Mary, Rory/Jess is the most popular of the four. I wonder if it's unpopular to prefer Jess/Luke to Rory/Jess. At any rate, I feel that way. Frankly, I'm a Jess/Rory and Luke/Lorelai shipper who still preferred the guys' relationship with each other to the one they had with their Gilmore Girl romantic partner. 

 

Nah, Gilmore Girls never went there.

 

(Yes, I know you meant Marty, I'm merely trying to make a joke.) ;)

[Melancholy]

That would have been REALLY squicky if Jess and Rory were romantic end-game after they grew up together for years while Luke and Lorelai were involved romantically for years. That's like Greg and Marcia Brady jokes come to life, I guess only separated by marriage and living together in your hypothetical? However even with the facts as they are, it's squicky enough that I don't root for revival of Luke/Lorelai and Jess/Rory endgames with like, Liz cracking wise about wondering who she's visiting or something at a family reunion (INEVITABLE JOKE).  I think it's low-grade weird enough that I could make peace with it, especially since I do like both romantic ships on their own. But it's strange enough that it's a selling point against Jess/Rory since I prioritize Luke/Lorelai. 

 

I don't know what to say, deaja. Leading to "No reaction to my lesbian crack? How far we've come."

Edited January 29, 2016 by Melancholy

[dustylil]

That would have been REALLY squicky if Jess and Rory were romantic end-game after they grew up together for years while Luke and Lorelai were involved romantically for years. That's like Greg and Marcia Brady jokes come to life, I guess only separated by marriage and living together in your hypothetical

 

 I never watched The Brady Bunch but as I recall, their respective parents were married to one another. That is quite a bit different from the situation in Gilmore Girls. There were no legal or blood ties between Jess and Rory.

[Melancholy]

 I never watched The Brady Bunch but as I recall, their respective parents were married to one another. That is quite a bit different from the situation in Gilmore Girls. There were no legal or blood ties between Jess and Rory.

 

Yes, I noted that in my response. That said, Luke and Lorelai being romantically involved for many years (your hypothetical) has the ring of marriage to it. 

[dustylil]

Luke and Lorelai being romantically involved for many years (your hypothetical) has the ring of marriage to it

 

It does? Not to me. And that wasn't my intent in my "hypothetical". In my earlier post I had referenced Jess living with Luke, not Lorelai and Luke raising their respective charges jointly. Jess and Rory could indeed have grown up together, just as Lane and Rory grew up together - not in the same household -  but in the same small town.

[txhorns79]

I never watched The Brady Bunch but as I recall, their respective parents were married to one another. That is quite a bit different from the situation in Gilmore Girls. There were no legal or blood ties between Jess and Rory.

 

That sounds like a distinction without a difference.  In reality, Greg and Marcia were both teenagers when their parents got married.  They have no blood relation, and they weren't raised together from young children like they were brother and sister.  I understand that some are making some kind of large distinction between a couple that is married, and a couple that has been together for years without marriage, but if the only real difference between the couples is a piece of paper, then there is no real difference.    

[HeySandyStrange]

Nope, not alone.  No redeeming features, in my opinion.  Hated him from start to finish.

 

Hee. I don't know if I "hated" Jess, but I never got the appeal. He was an arrogant smartass with a chip the size of Texas on his shoulder. I also didn't find Milo V. all that appealing in any way. Just an all around negative character, imo. Plus the whole love triangle, bad boy lures the pure sweetheart from dull nice guy, is among the most unsubtle and cliche storylines  that appeared on GG. While I personally hope Rory doesn't end up with any of her exes in the revival, I suspect that there is a good chance she will with Jess since shipping for them is still pretty strong. I just hope he grew up to be less snarly and bitter, like we started to see in the later seasons. Otherwise, I will want to skip any scenes with him in it.

[txhorns79]

Hee. I don't know if I "hated" Jess, but I never got the appeal. He was an arrogant smartass with a chip the size of Texas on his shoulder. I also didn't find Milo V. all that appealing in any way. Just an all around negative character, imo.

 

I do think they started the character off in a very negative light, so I can see why people would have trouble liking him.  I think he improved markedly in later appearances.  He was good as a more limited, mature character. 

[timimouse]

I loved the Jess character. I've always believed that you don't have to "like" the character to like, or love, the character and what they bring to the story. I actually loved his relationship with Luke probably more than his relationship with Rory. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I can completely see why he was brought in as they needed to bring something different to the table. I love a villain. I found myself WANTING to like Jess. I don't know if it was Milo's portrayal of him or what but I just didn't like him, his attitude, the self-righteous side of Lorelai he brought out.... It's hard for me to explain because I actually found that I liked Milo in Heroes so I don't think it's a dislike for the actor.... No matter how I try to analyse it, I just can't get on that Jess train.

[dustylil]

Just an all around negative character

 

Kind of a teenage Snidely Whiplash during the time he was living in Stars Hollow. He really didn't appear to have any redeeming qualities - I don't think being enamoured of the town's Sweetheart counts in this regard.

[Minneapple]

I never got the appeal of Jess either. On fact I didn't like Jess until his appearance in season six when he told off Rory and woke her up. Finally he did something for her other than be an ass.

[Aloeonatable]

 

Plus the whole love triangle, bad boy lures the pure sweetheart from dull nice guy, is among the most unsubtle and cliche storylines  that appeared on GG.

Or the good girl tames the playboy, in the case of Logan.

 

I was watching Real Time with Bill Mahar last night and there was a discussion about why women like assholes. I think it was Bill who finally said it is because they have confidence and seem to not care what others think. 

[HeySandyStrange]

 

Or the good girl tames the playboy, in the case of Logan.

 

True. As good as the writing on GG was, at times it really feel into cliche territory.

 

I think my problem with Jess is that I never got a full sense of why he was so angry and bitter. Okay, I get the fact that his parents were crappy and neglectful--but the jaded side of me needed a little more to feel sympathy for him. His attitude was a lot for me to swallow without having some deeper insight into what made him that way. And frankly he wasn't  as rebel without a cause as they tried to make him--he had an overblown ego, got into a few fistfights, and played a few stupid pranks, not very compelling to me. Just another kid who thought he was deeper then he really was, imho.

[txhorns79]

I think my problem with Jess is that I never got a full sense of why he was so angry and bitter. Okay, I get the fact that his parents were crappy and neglectful--but the jaded side of me needed a little more to feel sympathy for him. His attitude was a lot for me to swallow without having some deeper insight into what made him that way.

 

I agree.  I understood his anger with his mother, and I can imagine the lack of stability that came with being her child would have been a nightmare for anyone.  I can certainly see why he would have trust issues with adults, but I never got his overall nastiness. 

 

Though I will say the evil part of me enjoyed that he cut through Lorelai's vaunted parenting skills in about two seconds.  Don't get me wrong, he was rude to her and wrong in his actions, but it was interesting that Lorelai's patience and resolve fell apart almost immediately when she was faced with a child who was a lot less compliant than Rory. 

Edited January 30, 2016 by txhorns79

[Melancholy]

I've encountered characters and real-life people in better situations who are about as pissy and angry as Jess. Like, well, Paris Gellar. I completely understood why Jess was so pissy. It was a partly his justified trust and anger issues from his crappy parents. However, it was also because he was a teenager used to a lack of discipline and accountability so he just did whatever he wanted and, particularly in S3-4, we saw Jess become angrier and angrier at the very consequences of his own behavior. However, the show was quite clear- this was his own spiral that he needed to pull himself out of.

 

Moreover, I think Jess, like most literary folk, was very invested in his image as the Rebel Without A Cause Holden Caufield imitator and his early behavior was partly a performance. Quite a bit of it stemmed from how his parents never gave him a natural confidence in himself so he could only cling to the confidence of a persona. Like, he tried dropping the too cool for school, monosyllabic act for five minutes to have a normal, friendly conversation with Lorelai in Lost and Found and then, he started second guessing himself on whether he was doing it right two minutes into the conversation. Jess gravitated to a cool way for a guy to behave ala updated!Hemingway or updated!Keroauc or the Almost Famous vibe and he was running with it to make a persona that he felt comfortable embodying. I think there was also a defensiveness because Jess really identified his personality as an independent New Yorker with options to wander everywhere. Stars Hallow was the opposite of all of that. "This is Hell" plays as Jess observes Stars Hallow's idyllic small-town vibe. However then Jess got attached to Stars Hallow because it contained Luke and Rory- the first people to really show him love and investment in his future. However, Luke and Rory also embody Stars Hallow in their own ways. So, I perceive Jess as rebelling against how he feels suckered into abandoning his New Yorkerness for Luke and Rory, and somewhat taking his conflicting feelings out on them (mostly Luke) and the town. 

 

I think Jess is really one of the most realistic characters on the show. Of course, GG characters are dialed up ten billion degrees to the extreme of whatever character traits they possess. However, I've met quite a few Jesses. 

[muessigkeit]

I might have a truly unpopular opinion: I don't find Luke attractive. Scott Patterson does nothing for me (especially since I heard him on Gilmore Guys), but I keep hearing/reading people fawning over his looks, so clearly I must be the weirdo *shrug*

[HeySandyStrange]

 

I think Jess is really one of the most realistic characters on the show. Of course, GG characters are dialed up ten billion degrees to the extreme of whatever character traits they possess. However, I've met quite a few Jesses.

 

That is something I do agree with; Jess was one of the most realistic teens on the show. I did appreciate that he didn't change just because he had the good girl's love and a concerned uncle. That at least was believable.

 

 

I might have a truly unpopular opinion: I don't find Luke attractive.

 

I'm pretty sure you're not alone, seeing as attractiveness is very subjective. I found Luke attractive at times, but Chris, Dean, Jess and Logan did nothing for me looks wise. And, possibly an unpopular opinion, but I thought that Sookie had a prettier and more expressive face then Lorelai, not to say Lauren Graham isn't attractive, but still.

[txhorns79]

That is something I do agree with; Jess was one of the most realistic teens on the show. I did appreciate that he didn't change just because he had the good girl's love and a concerned uncle. That at least was believable.

 

I would disagree a little bit, and say he did change in relation to having a concerned uncle.  It took a lot of time, but I think the changes we saw in the fourth season (attending Liz's wedding at the behest of Luke) and the vast maturing later on, were in part because of the time he spent with Luke. 

[RainbowBrite]

I have been revisiting the show for the first time since it first aired, and it has made me remember just how much I despised Jackson once married to Sookie. Last night I watched the episode where Sookie is on bed rest and Luke is cooking at the inn - Sookie ends up in a room upstairs, having samples of all the food sent up to her for inspection. I feel like the way Jackson shows up and yells at Luke, and the way he acts towards Lorelai when they are driving  away in the golf cart are supposed to be played for laughs or are meant to make him endearing and such a loving husband, but man I just wanted to jump through the screen and smack him. Hard!

[amensisterfriend]

GG men yelling, melting down for little reason and raging about (or to) their significant others was very often played for laughs or, worse, as 'romantic' and a sign of how much the guys cared on this show---Jackson, Luke, Richard, Christopher, Jess, Dean, Zach, Doyle, etc etc etc. It seems few things are more amusing and adorable to ASP than a grown man throwing a temper tantrum :) The only way I can like the show's male characters and their relationships with most of the GG females is to tell myself that that the characters are deliberately dialed up to  20 on a scale of 1-10 and not meant to be viewed exactly as we would "real" people in our more realistic world...and to use my fast forward button liberally. (This is in no way to disregard how deeply flawed many of the female characters are too, by the way...I'm an equal opportunity snarker!) 

 

I might have a truly unpopular opinion: I don't find Luke attractive. Scott Patterson does nothing for me (especially since I heard him on Gilmore Guys), but I keep hearing/reading people fawning over his looks, so clearly I must be the weirdo *shrug*

 

I've made the same confession, so you're definitely not alone :) There are a few times when I find him attractive or at least see why so many others do, but overall his body, hair, scowling facial expressions, way of speaking, way of walking, the general attitude he projects...he's just very much not my type, physically and otherwise. Then again, as I've made clear, AS-P's conception of 'great' male characters and the way they are in romantic relationships is just weirdly out of sync with mine. I'm lucky that I love the show's dialogue, friendships, Rory-Lorelai relationship and general warmth and charm etc enough for them to (usually!) distract me from the aspects of the show that make me cringe :) 

[Melancholy]

I thought Luke/Jason/Alex were all just very average looking guys. Everyman looking, not hot and not fug. And you know, I think Jason and Alex were practically billed as nice but ordinary looking guys. Luke was billed as nice-looking who really fills a rough and ready kink for some women but not a dreamboat who stops traffic or anything. (Seriously, sometimes the kink was downright recognized as a performance for some women rather than a straight-up crush. Like, the Chilton mom/Booster club head/Sally Sasser/Anne Ewing/Mary Alice chick who was in a puddle of HE BUILDS THING lust when talking to Lorelia, but then just approached Luke to ASK FOR DIRECTIONS. LOL.)

 

Christopher was technically well-proportioned in the face and had a nice head of hair before he buzzed it but I have a hard time giving him a qualifier like "handsome" or "sexy". There's just such a dopey, whiny way to how he caries himself and talks. I think goes beyond not caring for Chris as a person...though admittedly, that's part of it. They all came up short next to Lorelai who is very, very beautiful and sexy. Really aside that one ep where Jon Hamm appeared, I don't think Lorelai got to date anyone on her looks-level....It's pretty different from Rory where IMO, I saw a concerted effort to give her dreamboat boyfriends. Even if JP isn't my type, JP, MV, CZ and for that matter, CMM, are all clearly labeled hotties. 

 

That said, Luke's average looks compared to Lorelai's beauty doesn't bother me so much in terms of shipping. For one, I think Lorelai finds him sexy enough and he's a lot of ladies' type (in-show and in fandom) even if he's not my type. But also, I think the show practically recognized that as a trade off. Lorelai dates below her class and looks level and in exchange, she gets a total sweetheart of a guy who worships her and is skilled and hardworking enough to help provide the idyllic small-town life of great food and exquisite craftsmanship and firm roots into the community. It's really a great trade, given what Lorelai ultimately values. 

Edited February 1, 2016 by Melancholy

[RainbowBrite]

I might have a truly unpopular opinion: I don't find Luke attractive. Scott Patterson does nothing for me (especially since I heard him on Gilmore Guys), but I keep hearing/reading people fawning over his looks, so clearly I must be the weirdo *shrug*

 

Luke's look is totally what I go for...low maintenance, baseball cap, plaid, but still handsome. Scott Patterson is only about three years younger than my parents, so I struggle with my crush on him. I also find his thinning hair quite unattractive, so I'm good as long as his hat stays on.

[timimouse]

I might have a truly unpopular opinion: I don't find Luke attractive. Scott Patterson does nothing for me (especially since I heard him on Gilmore Guys), but I keep hearing/reading people fawning over his looks, so clearly I must be the weirdo *shrug*

 Generally, I'm not attracted to him but there have been a few scenes that I understand the attraction. One that stands out in my mind was when Lorelai had the booster club Fashion show at the Inn and he stuck around to ensure the stage stood up and while Lorelai and Emily were on the runway, they did a shot of Luke looking at them and smiling and I thought it was nice to see him relaxed and laughing. The constantly scowling and always angry Luke doesn't do it for me at all.

[Eyes High]

nice-looking who really fills a rough and ready kink for some women but not a dreamboat who stops traffic or anything. (Seriously, sometimes the kink was downright recognized as a performance for some women rather than a straight-up crush. Like, the Chilton mom/Booster club head/Sally Sasser/Anne Ewing/Mary Alice chick who was in a puddle of HE BUILDS THING lust when talking to Lorelia, but then just approached Luke to ASK FOR DIRECTIONS. LOL.)

 

There was a tongue in cheek article on Vulture about Amy Schumer's boyfriend having the ideal boyfriend profession, since he's a custom furniture maker.

Christopher was technically well-proportioned in the face and had a nice head of hair before he buzzed it but I have a hard time giving him a qualifier like "handsome" or "sexy". There's just such a dopey, whiny way to how he caries himself and talks.

 

I think goes beyond not caring for Chris as a person...though admittedly, that's part of it.

 

I think character has a lot to do with sexiness. I personally notice that an actor appears more or less attractive depending on the "ugliness" or "beauty" of the character they're playing. Christopher is a repulsive character in a lot of ways, and the actor's decently handsome face can only do so much to counteract that.

 

They all came up short next to Lorelai who is very, very beautiful and sexy.

 

Lorelai (Lauren Graham circa Gilmore Girls' original run) is pretty, with a nice figure and very striking colouring, but "very, very beautiful"? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that, but I don't see it. Aishwarya Rai she ain't. Heck, Alexis Bledel she ain't. She also has a number of characteristics which lessen her beauty--rudeness, selfishness, gawkiness, etc. etc.--albeit to a lesser extent than Christopher's diminish his.

 

Really aside that one ep where Jon Hamm appeared, I don't think Lorelai got to date anyone on her looks-level....It's pretty different from Rory where IMO, I saw a concerted effort to give her dreamboat boyfriends. Even if JP isn't my type, JP, MV, CZ and for that matter, CMM, are all clearly labeled hotties.

 

First of all, Alexis Bledel is far prettier than Lauren Graham ever was, so it makes sense that her boyfriends would be accordingly hotter. Second of all, the show was catering to the teenybopper set, so Tiger Beat-worthy love interests were a must. Lorelai having smoking boyfriends? Not so much. The WB/CW demanded hotness from the younger leads, apart from the obligatory nerdy sidekick characters (and more often than not the "nerds" were played by kids who grew into beauties, like Vanessa Marano). Not so much with the older characters, even the lead older characters.

 

I'd say that Chris and Lorelai were about even lookswise, all other things being equal. I agree that Lorelai was more attractive than Luke, although if Luke had a sweeter disposition, a full head of hair and dressed better, I would probably disagree with that assessment.

 

As for Lorelai dating down lookswise apart from Chris, Luke was definitely dating up lookswise, and Lorelai was far from the prettiest of his ex-girlfriends.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Eyes High

[Melancholy]

Lorelai (Lauren Graham circa Gilmore Girls' original run) is pretty, with a nice figure and very striking colouring, but "very, very beautiful"? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that, but I don't see it. She also has a number of characteristics which lessen her beauty--rudeness, selfishness, gawkiness, etc. etc.--albeit to a lesser extent than Christopher's diminish his.

I suppose that kind of beauty is in the beholder. I agree that Lorelai was frequently rude and uncouth. However, I never thought it negatively impacted her looks. I've gotta go for the base stereotype- Chris's brand of weakness just came off as non-masculine. Not so much the deadbeat dad part because there's lots of masculine deadbeat dads. But the whining about it and the shrill pining after Lorelai gave Chris a childish vibe instead of a manly vibe.

Meanwhile, Lorelai was a headache but she was a very cute headache who could totally pull off the "I'm high maintenance because there's a heckuva of a lot worth maintaining here!" Lorelai's part of a long, noble tradition of that kind of cutesy high-maintinence woman and she has the charisma and looks and even self-aware wit to pull it off as good as most anyone. That said, I think there a lot of guys who would very reasonably deduct that she's too much work and Luke was also a plus because he'd literally declare that Lorelai is a lot of work....but then happily do the work.

 

 

First of all, Alexis Bledel is far prettier than Lauren Graham ever was, so it makes sense that her boyfriends would be accordingly hotter. Second of all, the show was catering to the teenybopper set, so Tiger Beat-worthy love interests were a must. Lorelai having smoking boyfriends? Not so much. The WB/CW demanded hotness from the younger leads, apart from the obligatory nerdy sidekick characters (and more often than not the "nerds" were played by kids who grew into beauties, like Vanessa Marano). Not so much with the older characters, even the lead older characters.

I agree with all of that. I think LG is very beautiful but I think Alexis Bledel is really in her own league. I also agree that series was catering to teens- so a lot more thought from the brain....and other parts went into picking the hottest guys for Rory to date. Still within that, it's interesting that Lane and Paris had conventionally cutie-pie boyfriends in the early seasons (Henry, Dave Rogowsky, Jaime) but then they ended up with unattractive Zack and totally dorky Doyle. I wonder whether it was to protect Rory's protagonist privilege as the gal who dates the cutest guys. (Some people don't have enough confidence in Matt Czuchry!) Or whether GG decided to look for punchlines in Lane's and Paris's romances above all once both characters experienced the seemingly unlikely (for their own reasons) sweet surprise of having a high school boyfriend. Like, after that sweet sorta-story was told, GG decided that romances with Lane and Paris best serve comedic purposes. 

Edited February 2, 2016 by Melancholy

[Eyes High]

I suppose that kind of beauty is in the beholder. I agree that Lorelai was frequently rude and uncouth. However, I never thought it negatively impacted her looks. I've gotta go for the base stereotype- Chris's brand of weakness just came off as non-masculine. Not so much the deadbeat dad part because there's lots of masculine deadbeat dads. But the whining about it and the shrill pining after Lorelai gave Chris a childish vibe instead of a manly vibe.

 

I agree that Christopher's whining made him very unattractive.

 

Meanwhile, Lorelai was a headache but she was a very cute headache who could totally pull off the "I'm high maintenance because there's a heckuva of a lot worth maintaining here!" Lorelai's part of a long, noble tradition of that kind of cutesy high-maintinence woman and she has the charisma and looks and even self-aware wit to pull it off as good as most anyone. That said, I think there a lot of guys who would very reasonably deduct that she's too much work and Luke was also a plus because he'd literally declare that Lorelai is a lot of work....but then happily do the work.

 

In addition to her good looks, Lorelai was both canonically and I think empirically a great flirt (great both in the sense of degree and in the sense of skill). I doubt she would have a problem hooking a guy initially. However, I think that just as it's true for a cute guy to become much less cute due to showing not so cute character traits--the downfall of The Dean Formerly Known As Cute is a testament to that--it's equally true for cute girls. Paris is a better example than Lorelai, since at least Lorelai had the saving grace of charm.

 

Also, to be fair, TV heroines in American shows these days tend to be some combination of brash/rude/selfish/awkward/gawky, so it's maybe a little unfair to ding Lorelai for showing those characteristics.

[Minneapple]

I didn't really find any of the guys in the cast attractive. The funny thing is, I didn't think much of Jared Padalecki when he was on Gilmore. Then he got to Supernatural and I found him really cute on that show. 

 

I think both Lauren and Alexis are gorgeous. I saw Lauren in Guys and Dolls and she came out to sign autographs after -- she's even more beautiful in person than she is onscreen. 

[JayInChicago]

The only times I literally thought anyone was attractive in this show were

 

Lorelai in the extremely silly first season 'rodeo ish' ensemble for the first day at Chilton

Lorelai wearing Luke's flannel downstairs to get coffee, after they sleep together

 

and Marty in Rory's robe.  what can I say.