One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[junienmomo]

I don't believe Richard was a child when his father died. He made reference to a hand-tailored suit that he was never able to wear again because he had worn it to his father's funeral. To me, it sounded like he was an adult.

 

Here's the quote out of The Reigning Lorelai.

No specific date, but it was Richard's first custom suit.

 

RICHARD: [ Sighs ] Yes, I suppose so. You know, the suit I wore when we buried my father -- I was never able to wear

it again. It was brand-new -- a very nice suit. Custom-made. It was my first custom-made suit. I told your grandmother

that it didn't fit anymore, but really, I just didn't want to see it again. And I suppose this is going to be it for this suit, too.

[txhorns79]

I don't believe Richard was a child when his father died. He made reference to a hand-tailored suit that he was never able to wear again because he had worn it to his father's funeral. To me, it sounded like he was an adult.

 

I had the impression he was a child.  The way he describes the funeral in the episode, as cited by junienmomo, sounds like the way a child would look at a funeral.  Though I can see why it would not be clear either way as to how old he was.   

[readster]

Here's the quote out of The Reigning Lorelai.

No specific date, but it was Richard's first custom suit.

 

RICHARD: [ Sighs ] Yes, I suppose so. You know, the suit I wore when we buried my father -- I was never able to wear

it again. It was brand-new -- a very nice suit. Custom-made. It was my first custom-made suit. I told your grandmother

that it didn't fit anymore, but really, I just didn't want to see it again. And I suppose this is going to be it for this suit, too.

 

Richard's final line was very heartbreaking. Since this was Trix's funeral. 

[Taryn74]

I don't remember if it was in TRL or another episode, but Richard also made a reference once to how Trix took care of the family after his father died.  That definitely made it sound like he was a child.

 

Oh!  I just found it.  It is from TRL -

RICHARD: I learned everything from that woman. "Life is a battle, and you either enter it armed or you surrender immediately." That is what she told me...on my 10th birthday. I never forgot that. No, no one...was as strong as that woman. That wonderful woman...that saint of a woman.

 

...

 

RICHARD: That woman raised me and she taught me. And she took care of the family even after Father died. And I spoke her as if I owed her nothing, as if she was like anyone else in the world and not the saint of a woman that she was.

 

 

I think the first quote is where people get the age 10 from, although to me that one's not at all clear.

[blueray]

Was his father sick? It's possible that he was battling an illness for most of Richard's childhood and he died when he was in his late teens or college years. So his suit from when he was like 18 doesn't fit anymore.

Edited December 26, 2014 by blueray

[dustylil]

I agree that it always sounded like Trix had raised him. Certainly she seemed to be the dominant force in his life.  Did we even know what Charles did for a living? Or what civic activities he was involved in? However in Season 3's Let the Games Begin Richard and Emily tell Lorelai and Rory about him - while he was at Yale - taking his respective girlfriends (Pennilyn and Emily) home to meet his parents. So it does appear he was alive until Richard was at least around twenty years of age.

Perhaps as blueray suggested Charles suffered from medical problems in his later years. That said, given Richard's own bouts of ill health, it was odd that there was no reference made to it by either Emily or Richard.

Edited December 27, 2014 by dustylil

[blackCatCollins]

UO: I'm really not a fan of "A Deep Fried Korean Thanksgiving". between the lack of continuity ("we've never broken up"- umm really, Rory? that wasn't a major plot point of season 1?) to Lorelei bringing chocolate to the Kim's (i know it's a little thing, but it bugs me that she would do that knowing Mama Kim's stance on junk food) to Lorelei's absolutely ABHORRENT behavior at dinner to Rory not telling her mother about applying to Yale to Dean threatening Jess (with no follow up in subsequent episodes), there just doesn't seem to be a lot to like. Lane and Dave are the only thing i enjoy about it. 

[readster]

 Deep Fried is really all over the place. I was even shocked that Jackson did the deep fry for the turkey. Do he not know how anal Sookie was about how things were to be cooked especially after being married to her at that point. Not to mention when she tried to go overboard like the Lord of the Rings birthday party making green mac and cheese? It was like all the characters had no brain cells and expected everyone to just shrug their shoulders and enjoy the meal. 

[txhorns79]

to Lorelei's absolutely ABHORRENT behavior at dinner to Rory not telling her mother about applying to Yale

 

Given Lorelai's reaction, I can't blame Rory for not telling her.  There are times when I can't even begin to fathom how Lorelai is the success she is given how immature she could be.  I just wanted someone to be like: "Your daughter's decisions aren't always all about you, Lorelai.  She has a mind of her own."   

 

 

Perhaps as blueray suggested Charles suffered from medical problems in his later years. That said, given Richard's own bouts of ill health, it was odd that there was no reference made to it by either Emily or Richard.

 

If I recall correctly, Richard's issues were heart related.  Unless his father died related to the same issues or something similar, it's not really relevant. 

Edited December 27, 2014 by txhorns79

[dustylil]

In fairness to Jackson, the green mac and cheese was still some months down the road in Season 4. Also, despite Sookie's controlling tendencies, items cooked out of doors  may have been deemed the husband's bailiwick. Just like in the olden days (that is the fifties). Jackson was also in charge of the barbecue at that ghastly dinner party at Lorelai's in Season 6 where all were treated to a seething Luke.

[MaiSoCalled]

I actually don't have a problem that Rory did lose her virginity to the very married Dean.  The story line was fairly realistic, with their relationship falling apart yet again after they realized they had nothing in common. Where it went wrong for me was that Rory received very little to no blow back because of it, other then the show down between Lorelai and Lindsey's mom. The fact that for the most part she got to keep being Princess Rory after that was a little much to swallow and took me out of the story.

I don't mind that she didn't receive blowback from the town. It's easy to assume they liked Rory better. Heck, even Dean's sister preferred Rory. What was lacking for me was followup with Rory. I would have liked to see her later in the season/series coming to terms with what a big mistake she made. Even a throw away line to Lucy and Olivia (who, unpopular opinion, I kind of like). 

[blackCatCollins]

Given Lorelai's reaction, I can't blame Rory for not telling her.  There are times when I can't even begin to fathom how Lorelai is the success she is given how immature she could be.  I just wanted someone to be like: "Your daughter's decisions aren't always all about you, Lorelai.  She has a mind of her own."   

maybe i'm overthinking it, but i wonder if Rory had just told her, would it have lessened the reaction just a tad. i think part of why she flipped her lid was a lie of omission (isn't that an Ashley Judd-Morgan Freeman movie?) coupled with associating it with her parents. ymmv, of course. 

[dustylil]

MaiSoCalled  at the time I had hoped Rory would have had a moment of self-reflection when she was busy wallowing upon learning about Logan and the bridesmaids.

[txhorns79]

Even a throw away line to Lucy and Olivia (who, unpopular opinion, I kind of like).

 

I didn't think they were bad.  I just never got their purpose.  They didn't really seem like people who would befriend Rory, much less people Rory would become close with.  I mean, it was nice for Rory to have friends outside of Lane and Paris, they just never really did much with Lucy and Olivia outside the return of Marty. 

 

 

maybe i'm overthinking it, but i wonder if Rory had just told her, would it have lessened the reaction just a tad. i think part of why she flipped her lid was a lie of omission (isn't that an Ashley Judd-Morgan Freeman movie?) coupled with associating it with her parents. ymmv, of course.

 

I think you make a good point.  Having said that, I do think Lorelai was very immature when it came to dealing with her parents. 

[readster]

I didn't think they were bad.  I just never got their purpose.  They didn't really seem like people who would befriend Rory, much less people Rory would become close with.  I mean, it was nice for Rory to have friends outside of Lane and Paris, they just never really did much with Lucy and Olivia outside the return of Marty. 

 

I think you make a good point.  Having said that, I do think Lorelai was very immature when it came to dealing with her parents. 

 

 

 I didn't mind Lucy and Olivia but they we had an entire season of character build up and face time with Rory and Paris's freshman roommates. They they just dropped them. Put Doyle front and center with Paris and then here were Lucy and Olivia to of nowhere and they were quickly BFFs and then you had that fallout with Marty. UO here but I really feel Marty was a character that should have had more shine and the fact that much like Jared and Milo, when Wayne Wilcox was not busy with shows on Broadway. Amy P just was like: "Oh, I have an episode for you, let's make you one of Rory's new friends boyfriend and then have two episodes of complete fallout and then you can head back to Broadway. Only actor who was introduced that they wanted to be more of a part was Adam Brody and once The O.C became a hit they turned to hooking Lane up with Zack. 

[HeySandyStrange]

I don't mind that she didn't receive blowback from the town. It's easy to assume they liked Rory better. Heck, even Dean's sister preferred Rory. What was lacking for me was followup with Rory. I would have liked to see her later in the season/series coming to terms with what a big mistake she made. Even a throw away line to Lucy and Olivia (who, unpopular opinion, I kind of like). 

 

I was under the impression Rory was more popular with the adults of Stars Hollow, not so much her peers and former classmates. I thought there was a line at one point from Lane that the teenagers of the town thought she was stuck up (after transferring to Chilton).  I also just wanted her to realize that her what she and Dean did was a big mistake on both their parts, and thought if she realized she wasn't very popular with some people in the Hollow it would lead her there.  Or any type of reflection on her part about it, really.  No wearing an A on her chest, of course :)

[amensisterfriend]

By the time the admittedly irksome Lucy and Olivia wandered onto the show, I was so thrilled to see Rory having a friend who 1) she had made  post-high school and 2) who was actually 'her' friend (as opposed to a Life and Death Brigade-y type who she just knew by virtue of being Logan's girlfriend) that I actually liked Lucy and Olivia more than most did. They were really annoying, but I hold the UO of not minding them anyway---based more on who they weren't than who they were. 

 

ITA with those who don't love ADFKT as much as most! Other extremely popular episodes that I'm unpopularly lukewarm about: The trilogy (LCSHF, LWF, TWT and Raincoats and Recipes---Digger's suddenly a stalker, the Rory/Dean stuff, too much Liz/TJ, Luke and Lorelai misunderstand each other yet again, the breakup of Emily and Richard depresses me a bit, and the buildup of L/L doesn't delight me now that I know how meh I was on them as a couple), Forgiveness and Stuff (too melodramatic, heavy-handed and After School Special-y for GG, IMO), ADFKT (you guys covered it perfectly above!), A Tale of Poes and Fire (Ironically, this is one of the few S3 episodes I don't love!), 21 Is the Loneliest Number (It's okay by dreadful S6 standards, and points for being one of the only episodes in which I really like L/L as a couple, but otherwise it's pretty skip-worthy for me!), LMHYBRO (I should love the return of Jess, but this episode just irks me, and I absolutely hate Logan here), It's Just Like Riding a Bike (I like the Sookie/Jackson scenes, but L/L's return to bickering and snapping at each other is more headache-inducing than sweet for me!) 

Edited December 28, 2014 by amensisterfriend

[readster]

Funny thing about Digger was I actually liked him but then his write off the last few episodes was horrible. "Hey Richard, my son is dating your daughter." Richard: "Forbidden!" "Sure, I'll come back to work for you, Digger is out." Digger: "I'm suing my own father and your father for screwing me over." Lorelai: "Then go away!" R&R: "Hey Lorelai, I'm going to follow you everywhere until you have me back." Then his shack catches fire and we never hear of him again. 

[amensisterfriend]

That annoyed me so much, Readster! The show had a way of sloppily vilifying love interests so that we'd still see Lorelai, Rory, Luke etc. as our 'heroes.' I also really, really hated how they suddenly made Nicole a lying cheater---there were already so many reasons why the Luke/Nicole relationship wasn't working, but rather than a nuanced exploration of why and maybe an opportunity for Luke to look at his own passive-aggressive technically-still-in-it-but-not-really behavior in relationships (he was the exact same way with Rachel!), they lazily turned it into 'poor Luke! Cheated on by that awful woman!' Similarly, we're supposed to feel relieved that Lorelai got rid of suddenly pathetic, stalker-y Digger (though this was so out of character---he was always too emotionally detached, for heaven's sake, not ridiculously clingy!) And Dean was so scarily bitter and unlikable that Rory was therefore supposed to be absolved of her own multiple mistakes in their relationship(s). A lot of this comes back to that same general UO: Romantic relationships were not exactly GG's forte...to say the least :) 

[readster]

That annoyed me so much, Readster! The show had a way of sloppily vilifying love interests so that we'd still see Lorelai, Rory, Luke etc. as our 'heroes.' I also really, really hated how they suddenly made Nicole a lying cheater---there were already so many reasons why the Luke/Nicole relationship wasn't working, but rather than a nuanced exploration of why and maybe an opportunity for Luke to look at his own passive-aggressive technically-still-in-it-but-not-really behavior in relationships (he was the exact same way with Rachel!), they lazily turned it into 'poor Luke! Cheated on by that awful woman!' Similarly, we're supposed to feel relieved that Lorelai got rid of suddenly pathetic, stalker-y Digger (though this was so out of character---he was always too emotionally detached, for heaven's sake, not ridiculously clingy!) And Dean was so scarily bitter and unlikable that Rory was therefore supposed to be absolved of her own multiple mistakes in their relationship(s). A lot of this comes back to that same general UO: Romantic relationships were not exactly GG's forte...to say the least :) 

 

 

 Ugh! I hated Nicole. Especially when they were trying to divorce and all of her fellow lawyers kept stalking Luke that he must want something because Nicole was "a lawyer" and no one wants simple clean divorce. Even worse, the excuse was because Nicole was like a little sister to them. Oh please! The entire relationship post "cruise wedding" was so stupid for words. All of a sudden Nicole was like: "You know, let's just try this again even if you have no interest." Luke's reaction and thoughts behind it were so out of character for him as well. He was not in the relationship at all but considering this was post Jess, of course Luke was thinking he had to fix things. What really was crazy was the reason Nicole wasn't around the last couple of episodes that was the cheating with the Sock Man and the final notarizing was because the actress was filming a movie. 

  Luke owned a diner, Nicole as a partner in a firm. They were married a whopping month. There was no baby, no owning of an animal or property. The divorce was even stupider than the marriage. 

[amensisterfriend]

I agree again, Readster! Honestly, I'm always surprised that Luke impulsively, drunkenly marrying a woman he seemed to barely even like on a cruise ship isn't highlighted more as one of the most wildly out-of-character, idiotic plot twists of the series. I actually think Luke concealing his long lost daughter while he slowly "processed" or whatever was a lot more in character than that. Now, if Lorelai had done the impulsive marriage (and I don't even count the marriage to Chris as nearly as impulsive---after all, she had known and cared for him for decades by then!), that would have felt in character for me. It had already been well established that she can be rash, spontaneous to a fault, passionate, led by her heart over her head, etc. But Luke doing that was such a complete and total "HUH?!" for me...and somehow still is! 

[MaiSoCalled]

MaiSoCalled  at the time I had hoped Rory would have had a moment of self-reflection when she was busy wallowing upon learning about Logan and the bridesmaids.

Yes! I also think this would have been a perfect time for Rory to see the Dean situation through new eyes. I think it's very common for adolescents to justify cheating, especially if they've never been the one cheated on. I think this was the bookend that was missing to the Dean virginity story, the moment Rory realizes the shame in what happened. I think it doesn't help matters that Lorelei and Christopher always had this connection, even when one or both of them was with someone else. 

 

I was under the impression Rory was more popular with the adults of Stars Hollow, not so much her peers and former classmates. I thought there was a line at one point from Lane that the teenagers of the town thought she was stuck up (after transferring to Chilton). 

I agree that Rory seemed more popular with adults than her peers. It makes sense that her two Stars Hollow boyfriends were not long time town residents. It also seemed that the people involved with the school, such as the PTA, were not the same people who actively attended town meetings. Lorelai didn't remember the PTA moms, and one imagines she knows all the town meeting regulars. I expect the PTA crowd also felt Rory and Lorelai were a bit stuck up. 

 

By the time the admittedly irksome Lucy and Olivia wandered onto the show, I was so thrilled to see Rory having a friend who 1) she had made  post-high school and 2) who was actually 'her' friend (as opposed to a Life and Death Brigade-y type who she just knew by virtue of being Logan's girlfriend) that I actually liked Lucy and Olivia more than most did. They were really annoying, but I hold the UO of not minding them anyway---based more on who they weren't than who they were. 

 

I thought the two really worked as Rory's friends. I also loved that they were her friends, not Logan's, and also they didn't seem to be trust fund kids. I loved that they found Paris fascinating, rather than annoying, and thought the moment where the four drank champagne at graduation was wonderful. It makes sense to me that Rory would get along well with artists and in many ways Lucy and Olivia make me think of the life Lane could have had. The two were annoying, but I blame that more on the extreme wackiness of the later seasons. (Full disclosure, since season 7 aired I have become a full on Krysten Ritter fangirl). 

[readster]

 

Yes! I also think this would have been a perfect time for Rory to see the Dean situation through new eyes. I think it's very common for adolescents to justify cheating, especially if they've never been the one cheated on. I think this was the bookend that was missing to the Dean virginity story, the moment Rory realizes the shame in what happened. I think it doesn't help matters that Lorelei and Christopher always had this connection, even when one or both of them was with someone else.

 

Speaking of UO, something that really bothered me was how they handled fallout from these situations. Rory's community service and her reaction from Logan's dad telling her she was horrible at journalism was a really horribly handled story line just to get Rory to live with Richard and Emily. The judge threw the worse punishment outside of jail time on Rory. Yet Logan, who had multiple arrests, fines, etc and was publicly known to do this stuff was off to Europe for the summer. He didn't even check in on Rory during that time. Really? Fight Face is also such a horrible episode, if I heard "show your fight face" one more time in that episode I was going to travel back in time and attack the camera crew. Plus, how Richard and Emily thought it was from Lorelai not being around for Rory to help her with the pressures of college life that the reasons why she stole the yacht were so out of character for them. "Oh, it couldn't have been Logan's influence or the Hutzburgers." "They are high society like us." "Why would they treat Rory like that and also why would Rory go overboard like that." "It must have been you and the pressures of college." It was then the reaction to when Richard and Emily found out the truth. Richard has been shown to be very resilient to anger but I was waiting for Richard to kill them both. The look on Emily's face spoke volumes. Speaking of that, the fact that Emily wanted Lorelai and Christopher together was because of how it would make her look. From all 7 seasons and so forth. The only one who truly hated Lorelai for getting pregnant outside of Richard and Emily was Strobe. No one ever seem to care or notice. There was never any talk and even Trix apparently didn't care and still carried her distaste for Emily for almost 40 years. Now, that was anger. 

Edited December 28, 2014 by readster

[dustylil]

Not that I particularly care for Logan, but it didn't bother me in the least that he went swanning off to Europe after the yacht theft. Presumably these plans were in place before his and Rory's aquatic adventure. And  he had offered the services of his own lawyers who were experienced in such matters to assist Rory. It was the Gilmores' decision not to take him up on it. Similarly, it was the senior Gilmores' lawyer who appeared not to have given much thought as  to his courtroom strategy or as to what had happened with her co-accused. At the very least, I would have thought he would have researched the judge's background and reputation. His ineptitude wasn't Logan's fault or responsibility.

And with respect, was 300 hours of community service really the worst punishment outside of jail time that could have been given?

[readster]

That's the thing, the lawyer came off like a complete idiot even telling Richard to go to Hell after Richard told him he screwed up. For someone who apparently had been an attorney for years. You could tell this was an episode and situation that was written by people who didn't even bother trying to make it semi realistic. Of course for the storyline to work with Rory's "downfall" we had to suspend belief that Emily and Richard had to be so unaware of what happened and what lead to the situation. Especially, when Logan offered not only his help but his lawyers knew how the judge worked too.

[txhorns79]

The only one who truly hated Lorelai for getting pregnant outside of Richard and Emily was Strobe.

I would disagree, if only to say that I don't think Emily or Richard hated Lorelai for getting pregnant.  They hated the choices she made after getting pregnant, in refusing to marry Chris, and then later running away/cutting them out of her life, but I think they loved Lorelai very much.   

[readster]

 I get the anger but it gets to the point that afterwards after over 20 years. It was time to get over it. Their granddaughter went to Yale, Lorelai became a successful business owner. Yet, it was constantly implied: "Why can't you just marry Christopher and be a completed family." As if Lorelai marrying someone outside their society was a horrible thing. I lost all respect for Emily when she did her best to break up Luke and Lorelai and then I wanted to smack Lorelai for constantly going back to Christopher. Something that drove me nuts about Christopher was not becoming a father at 17 and then barely being around. It was he got a second woman accidentally pregnant in his 30s and then didn't have any idea how to handle raising Georgia. Revealing he basically became his father, working all the time and barely being home. Then had no idea how to handle a toddler, I get he was in a panic and to find out his parents basically told him: "You are on your own again." I was like: "Christopher had some really horrible parents."  but instead of trying to rise above them, he did his entire: "Someone else can help me instead." I think it also spoke volumes when it was revealed that the grandfather left everything to Christopher not only because his father died before him but also the grandfather had no respect for Chris's mother. You can argue that he did it for Christopher because he was in his late 30s, in great health and leaving it to his daughter-in-law wouldn't work since his own son passed away a year earlier. 

  However, it also continued that most of the parents of the main characters had no respect for their children's spouses. Trix hated Emily because she felt Pennlyn was better for Richard. Emily didn't want Lorelai to marry a "diner owner". Logan's mom and his grandfather didn't want Logan together with Rory because they thought she was trash. Considering Logan's mom was a former cocktail waitress and the grandfather was known for his partying and sneaking around. Then add in Chris's parents, Strobe blamed everyone for his son's horrible life instead of the fact Christopher made all the decisions himself. His mother just nodded with Strobe and never said anything. If there was one thing to be said to all, Emily should have had a wake up call when she read Trix's letter and realized she was being her for the same backwards reasons. Instead she just got drunk and laughed over Trix's ideology. However, I will never understand why Richard was secretly having lunches with Pennilyn for over 10 years he revealed. That was so OOC for Richard and even more, how do your wife would react to find out you were meeting your ex for lunch for over a decade. Richard never gave an excuse for the lunches outside of: "Well, we were engaged." That was the worst excuse I have ever heard. If I said that to my wife, I can tell you, I would be a dead man.

[Kohola3]

If there was one thing to be said to all, Emily should have had a wake up call when she read Trix's letter and realized she was being her for the same backwards reasons.

 

Amen to that.  But that would have ended the conflict that was the crux of the interactions with the two generation so ASP wouldn't chance any growth in the characters.

[Guest]

 

However, I will never understand why Richard was secretly having lunches with Pennilyn for over 10 years he revealed.

That was probably one of the biggest plot contrivances on a show full of plot contrivances. Usually, a broken engagement leaves some very hard feelings on the part of at least one of the parties.

[amensisterfriend]

But that would have ended the conflict that was the crux of the interactions with the two generation so ASP wouldn't chance any growth in the characters.

 

Heh! So true. And in a way I actually sympathize, because I think it must be very tough as a writer of a long running series to show steady, believable growth in characters and their relationships *without* growing them right out of the flaws and conflicts which made them unique in the first place and which fuel the basic tension that storylines revolve around. It's a really fine line to tread, so it doesn't surprise me that so few of them manage it with much success. That said, though, my UO is that the Lorelai/Emily relationship, potentially the richest and most compelling of the whole series, became so frustrating and tiresome to me that I can now barely derive any enjoyment from their scenes, as well written and nicely acted as most of them were. Their dance of dysfunction was just too frequent and repetitive for me, with too many steps back and not enough forward. 

Edited December 30, 2014 by amensisterfriend

[takalotti]

Something that drove me nuts about Christopher was not becoming a father at 17 and then barely being around. It was he got a second woman accidentally pregnant in his 30s and then didn't have any idea how to handle raising Georgia. Revealing he basically became his father, working all the time and barely being home. Then had no idea how to handle a toddler, I get he was in a panic and to find out his parents basically told him: "You are on your own again." I was like: "Christopher had some really horrible parents."  but instead of trying to rise above them, he did his entire: "Someone else can help me instead."  

Absolutely! I wish Lorelai had called him out on that when she went over instead of being his frickin cheerleader. Ugh.

I think it also spoke volumes when it was revealed that the grandfather left everything to Christopher not only because his father died before him but also the grandfather had no respect for Chris's mother. You can argue that he did it for Christopher because he was in his late 30s, in great health and leaving it to his daughter-in-law wouldn't work since his own son passed away a year earlier. 

Wait, I'm confused. Christopher had a brother who died? How did I miss this?

[BC Mama]

Heh! That said, though, my UO is that the Lorelai/Emily relationship, potentially the richest and most compelling of the whole series, became so frustrating and tiresome to me that I can now barely derive any enjoyment from their scenes, as well written and nicely acted as most of them were. Their dance of dysfunction was just too frequent and repetitive for me, with too many steps back and not enough forward.

I totally agree. I really love in season seven when Lorelei helps Emily understand how to are for her and Richard's finances after Richard's heart attack. They get drunk and Emily expresses her admiration for Lorelei's self reliance and comforts her that she will be okay following her divorce from Christopher. It is such a tender moment, which is totally ruined when Emily returns to being distant and passive aggressive self the next morning. Such a great opportunity to show progress in their relationship wasted.

[blackCatCollins]

Absolutely! I wish Lorelai had called him out on that when she went over instead of being his frickin cheerleader. Ugh.

Wait, I'm confused. Christopher had a brother who died? How did I miss this?

no, Christopher's grandfather left him the money. Straub (Christopher's father and therefore his grandfather's son) died.

[takalotti]

no, Christopher's grandfather left him the money. Straub (Christopher's father and therefore his grandfather's son) died.

Oh my goodness, thank you. Since Gigi was being discussed right before this, for some reason I let myself think "the grandfather" was Straube. Thank you for unscrambling my brain.

[dustylil]

I kind of  understood the Richard/Pennilyn lunches. Getting together - secretly, just the two of them, all those years - had the frisson of infidelity in their duty-bound world without the guilt and shame. To say nothing of the organizational skills.

 

We never got a sense of Pennilyn's own marriage, but however much Richard loved Emily, life with her wasn't exactly a day at the beach. And the Gilmores had their share of family woes. With  Pennilyn Richard  got to spend time with someone who knew him well, cared for him and made no demands.

[txhorns79]

 

I kind of  understood the Richard/Pennilyn lunches. Getting together - secretly, just the two of them, all those years - had the frisson of infidelity in their duty-bound world without the guilt and shame.

I'm pretty sure Richard felt a lot of guilt and shame over what he and Pennilyn were doing.  Otherwise, there would have been no point in hiding the lunches from Emily.  People don't typically hide things like that from their spouses unless they think they are doing something wrong.   

 

 

I think it must be very tough as a writer of a long running series to show steady, believable growth in characters and their relationships *without* growing them right out of the flaws and conflicts which made them unique in the first place and which fuel the basic tension that storylines revolve around. It's a really fine line to tread, so it doesn't surprise me that so few of them manage it with much success.

 

I'd like to think better writers could have kept the tensions between Lorelai and Emily, while simultaneously allowing them to grow in their relationship.  It was my big frustration with the series.  Emily and Lorelai were always one step forward, two steps back.  At the rate their relationship moved, they may have finally made peace right in time for Emily's funeral service.   

[readster]

I'm pretty sure Richard felt a lot of guilt and shame over what he and Pennilyn were doing.  Otherwise, there would have been no point in hiding the lunches from Emily.  People don't typically hide things like that from their spouses unless they think they are doing something wrong.   

 

I'd like to think better writers could have kept the tensions between Lorelai and Emily, while simultaneously allowing them to grow in their relationship.  It was my big frustration with the series.  Emily and Lorelai were always one step forward, two steps back.  At the rate their relationship moved, they may have finally made peace right in time for Emily's funeral service.   

 

 Exactly. I'm sorry, but at some point you have to move on with our lives and the way Emily and Lorelai were going. I was waiting for them to travel back in time to just before Lorelai revealed she was pregnant when it all started. They kept going backwards. 

[JayInChicago]

At the rate their relationship moved, they may have finally made peace right in time for Emily's funeral service.

 

 

I laughed a lot at this. I'm not sure I was supposed to? But I laughed.

[dustylil]

I doubt that Richard felt any kind of remorse for his ongoing contact with Pennilyn. If he had, he would have ended it years ago before Emily (who clearly detested the woman) found out rather than continue the relationship for the duration of his marriage. Alternately, he could have invited her husband Stephen to accompany them at their lunches and have turned  their meetings into  old college chums get-togethers.

As far as I could tell, Richard organized and lived his life pretty much according to what he wanted. Pennilyn was just one compartment of it

[Kohola3]

They get drunk and Emily expresses her admiration for Lorelei's self reliance and comforts her that she will be okay following her divorce from Christopher. It is such a tender moment, which is totally ruined when Emily returns to being distant and passive aggressive self the next morning. Such a great opportunity to show progress in their relationship wasted.

 

To me that was a replay of the S1 episode where Rory and Dean are out all night.  Emily takes care of Lorelai (bad back) and there are some lovely moments and but she turns into a banshee the next morning and it all unravels.  So in 7 seasons, nothing really changes.  Recycling = lack of imagination by the writing staff.

[txhorns79]

I doubt that Richard felt any kind of remorse for his ongoing contact with Pennilyn. If he had, he would have ended it years ago before Emily (who clearly detested the woman) found out rather than continue the relationship for the duration of his marriage.

 

As was noted, people don't typically keep secrets like this from a spouse unless they think they are doing something wrong.  I would think like many people who engage in that kind of behavior, Richard likely justified what he was doing to himself to a point where he was content to keep the situation going for as long as he could. 

 

In a way, it was like Lorelai and Digger hiding their relationship.  Lorelai clearly seemed fine with never telling her parents she was seeing Jason, and I think she would have continued hiding things for as long as she could, regardless of the long term consequences for her relationship with her parents, because in her head, she had justified what she was doing. 

Edited December 31, 2014 by txhorns79

[readster]

To me that was a replay of the S1 episode where Rory and Dean are out all night.  Emily takes care of Lorelai (bad back) and there are some lovely moments and but she turns into a banshee the next morning and it all unravels.  So in 7 seasons, nothing really changes.  Recycling = lack of imagination by the writing staff.

 

 I agree, the writing staff constantly threw out the "Moonlighting Effect" with Luke and Lorelai saying that it would get boring or sighting certain soup operas or fellow writers. With their excuse: "The best characters never change." Both those analogies are very stupid in my opinion. The basis of the Moonlighting Effect was a result of a writers strike, poor timing and the actors having a problem with each other. The talk about "the best characters never change" needs to be that what makes up their core doesn't change. When you take shows like Breaking Bad, The Sopranos, Dallas and so forth. The characters at their core didn't change but did they learn from their actions? Sure. Did they regret or enjoy who they became? Of course. That's how you do it, you keep the basis of who they are but the characters need to grow either for the better or for the worst. 

  S1 Emily especially with what happened with Rory and Dean in that episode. It all worked, when we saw her help Lorelai with getting a loan to get her house taken care of when termites came in but then how she wanted to use the Inn for her DAR meetings. That worked. However, getting Emily to break up Luke and Lorelai and her excuse because of Christopher's gene pool and family, that was too much. Emily not realizing that maybe, just maybe the Huntzburgers were asshats until Richard confirmed that everything was true. That was all badly handled. Then when they tried to get Emily to buy a house for Luke and Lorelai to smooth things over, that has small glimpses of those the past Emily. At that point, even if she was my mother I would have told her to go jump off a cliff, her idea of helping was backwards. 

[Kohola3]

At that point, even if she was my mother I would have told her to go jump off a cliff, her idea of helping was backwards.

 

And too often, :"helping" consisted of throwing money at it.  You can't buy love was never so true than in this family.

[Betweenyouandme]

As was noted, people don't typically keep secrets like this from a spouse unless they think they are doing something wrong. I would think like many people who engage in that kind of behavior, Richard likely justified what he was doing to himself to a point where he was content to keep the situation going for as long as he could.

In a way, it was like Lorelai and Digger hiding their relationship. Lorelai clearly seemed fine with never telling her parents she was seeing Jason, and I think she would have continued hiding things for as long as she could, regardless of the long term consequences for her relationship with her parents, because in her head, she had justified what she was doing.

Or...a person could realize the their spouse would care but think it's an overreaction, so they don't tell them because they don't want to deal with it. Realizing something is "wrong" doesn't mean the person has to care or feel guilty. Lots of criminals, for example, try to hide their crimes so they don't get caught- not because they feel guilty and ashamed.

[junienmomo]

And too often, :"helping" consisted of throwing money at it.  You can't buy love was never so true than in this family.

 

Don't forget with Emily, financial help meant she would run the show. That's what was so weird in Bon Voyage, when they suddenly came up with the spa idea. Lorelai said no politely, then Emily turned to the tennis court idea. If the writers were trying to show a better relationship, they could have just had Emily ask Lorelai if she would please continue to come to dinner. Lorelai would have said yes, and gotten on with it.

[txhorns79]

Or...a person could realize the their spouse would care but think it's an overreaction, so they don't tell them because they don't want to deal with it. Realizing something is "wrong" doesn't mean the person has to care or feel guilty. Lots of criminals, for example, try to hide their crimes so they don't get caught- not because they feel guilty and ashamed.

 

I think if you are going to the trouble of hiding something from your spouse (outside of a birthday surprise or something in that manner), you care what they think, and you know you've done something worth hiding.  As I said, there are always people who justify their behavior in one way or another to alleviate whatever guilt their actions may cause, but they clearly do feel guilt or shame.  Otherwise, you wouldn't bother hiding what you are doing, and Richard appeared to have gone to a lot of trouble to keep his lunches with Pennilyn from Emily for years.      

[Betweenyouandme]

I think if you are going to the trouble of hiding something from your spouse (outside of a birthday surprise or something in that manner), you care what they think, and you know you've done something worth hiding. As I said, there are always people who justify their behavior in one way or another to alleviate whatever guilt their actions may cause, but they clearly do feel guilt or shame. Otherwise, you wouldn't bother hiding what you are doing, and Richard appeared to have gone to a lot of trouble to keep his lunches with Pennilyn from Emily for years.

I just don't agree. Hiding something doesn't equal feeling ashamed. I don't think Richard felt badly. I think he just did what he wanted. I do think he loved Emily, though, and wanted to spare her feelings and also get out of hearing her yell.

[junienmomo]

As a parallel thought to Richard not feeling ashamed, Lorelai responded to Christopher several times without thinking to tell Luke. She did, however, feel enough shame when called out on it to actively hide it. 

Also she didn't tell Rory that she was seeing Max again.

Makes me almost want to say, 'poor Emily' to live in such an inconsiderate family.

[readster]

As a parallel thought to Richard not feeling ashamed, Lorelai responded to Christopher several times without thinking to tell Luke. She did, however, feel enough shame when called out on it to actively hide it. 

Also she didn't tell Rory that she was seeing Max again.

Makes me almost want to say, 'poor Emily' to live in such an inconsiderate family.

 

 I agree because they never felt guilt on it until called out on it. Even with Luke when Liz told her about why she kept April a secret and how he handled it better with Jess just because he was "family". Even Emily by the final episode when Lorelai hugged her was having her taken by it and then patted her daughter. It was thrown in just to give some closure with the show ending but the look was like: "I guess she does love me." Well duh!

[junienmomo]

Even with Luke when Liz told her about why she kept April a secret and how he handled it better with Jess just because he was "family".

 

I don't quite understand this. Liz kept April a secret?