Henry Jr. : He Wants Chocolate Milk in His Cereal

[Rumsy4]

12 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I can't with him, I can't with how everyone is just ready to snatch Emma's Savior title from her at the drop of a hat. Emma should take Hook, leave town, never look back.

Except they only want the glory--not the sacrifice part.

My point of no return with Henry was when he told Regina he regretted bringing Emma to Storybrooke at the end of 3A. He said he was wrong about Regina, and thought she didn't love him. This was the same Henry who wanted Emma to save everyone in Storybrooke, not just himself in Season 1. The little shit started crapping on Emma ever since Bagel came into the Show. 

[YaddaYadda]

Oh yeah, that was pretty unforgivable for me what he said in 3x11. He brought Emma to SB because he was miserable. And poor naive Emma in 3x22, when she tells Hook that Henry wasn't just bringing her to break a curse, he was bringing her home. Girlfriend needs to wake up and smell the coffee.

Henry will never be Emma's son. She is his mother in name only. She gave birth to him and she is there when he needs her, or needs to scream at someone. That relationship rubs me the wrong way. 

[daxx]

That scene in going home always pisses me off. Seriously Henry? You wish you'd never found Emma?

[Shanna Marie]

Season 5 Henry irks me so much. He proved himself to be a real hypocrite when he didn't say a word about Charming killing Percival. You know, Little Mr. "Heroes Don't Kill" who gave Snow a guilt trip about killing Cora, the mass-murderer who was an imminent threat. But apparently it's totally okay to kill now, even though it was one of Regina's victims. Yeah, he was also an imminent threat, but no pouting or guilt trip or questioning anyone about that? And then he acted like Emma manipulating Violet in order to free Merlin was oh so evil while not blinking about killing someone?

Then there was all the self-righteous nonsense when he refused to help Emma take off the anti-magic cuff because she didn't ask for help. He acted like not asking the people who were assuming the worst about her and treating her like she was evil (on the basis of no evidence) for help was worse than any evil Rumple or Regina ever did. It would have been one thing if they'd been trying to be supportive and helpful and she'd shut them out, but they were avoiding her the whole time.

[KAOS Agent]

3B Henry was the best. He was an actual teenager who just wanted to play video games and thought adults who constantly talk about pregnancy are really boring. A nice normal kid who wasn't interested in being a hero or spouting ridiculous crap about magic. Is it good? Is it bad? How does he feel about it today? He also wasn't all impressed with himself because he's a writer. 

Henry telling Regina that he never should have found Emma was supposed to be a nice sentiment from a boy who was losing his mother and decided it was all his fault. I think that the writers were only looking at it through that narrow lens. They weren't taking into account what exactly that would have meant and how that reflects on Henry. David would still be in a coma, Belle would still be locked up in the asylum, Jefferson would still be watching his daughter while trapped in his mansion, Graham would still be stuck in a cold sexual relationship that he never consented to (although he'd be alive, so maybe that's better?), Hansel & Gretel would still be living on the streets, Aurora would still be cursed. It signified that he'd rather have all of those people suffering so he could stay with Regina than go with Emma, which I guess he's eleven, but that's really icky.

One of the things that I always have trouble with Henry about is this notion that Henry found Emma because he wanted to find his mother. That was not what Henry was looking for. He wanted the Saviour. Emma didn't want a kid and Henry didn't want a mother. He was a manipulative brat from the start and he played on Emma's guilt to get her to stay. Henry was extremely disappointed after she broke the curse when he didn't get the sword fighting and horseback riding and the whole Enchanted Forest fairy tale experience. He wanted swashbuckling adventures not the reality of regular life. Henry is and always has been all about Henry. Unfortunately, it seems like everyone goes along with that idea. He needs to be knocked down about a million pegs and face consequences for his selfish and hypocritical actions.

[KingOfHearts]

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One of the things that I always have trouble with Henry about is this notion that Henry found Emma because he wanted to find his mother. That was not what Henry was looking for. He wanted the Saviour. Emma didn't want a kid and Henry didn't want a mother. He was a manipulative brat from the start and he played on Emma's guilt to get her to stay. Henry was extremely disappointed after she broke the curse when he didn't get the sword fighting and horseback riding and the whole Enchanted Forest fairy tale experience. He wanted swashbuckling adventures not the reality of regular life. 

Emma said in the 3B finale something like, "Henry didn't bring me to Storybrooke to break a curse - he wanted to bring me home!" Yeah, sorry writers. That's a sentiment that falls in line with the message of the episode, but it totally contradicts what was written earlier in the series.

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Henry is and always has been all about Henry. Unfortunately, it seems like everyone goes along with that idea. He needs to be knocked down about a million pegs and face consequences for his selfish and hypocritical actions.

The S5 finale highlighted everything wrong with Henry, which is why it's my second least favorite episode of the series. I hate his whining more than anything.

Edited September 18, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Even though Henry went to find Emma because he knew she was the Savior, to me, he ended up finding someone that he looked up to and someone he connected with after an unhappy and lonely life with Regina.  I did like Henry in Season 1, but at this point, I think I only like the idea of what he could have been before his 2B character destruction.

[Rumsy4]

I liked Henry in Season 1. He's steadily turned into a selfish hypocritical little shit over time. He doesn't obey his parents, treats Emma poorly when he's in a bad mood, and never gets disciplined by the adults in his life for any of the dangerous and manipulative things he pulls. 

Edited September 18, 2016 by Rumsy4

[daxx]

Which I suppose makes sense if Henry is the self-insert character for A&E. he is the author after all.

[andromeda331]

I liked Season 1 Henry too. I loved watching him and Emma developing their cute relationship. He got to me at times like when he sadly admits Regina doesn't love him she only pretends to. Yes he ran around crazy with the Curse stuff, but then after Graham was killed he got scared. He knew Regina did it and was scared that something would happen to Emma and when he realized Ava and Nicholas were using him. The poor kid had no friends. How could he have friends? He was the only one who moved up every year in school. I liked him when Regina forced him to come back in beginning of season two and he helped Regina realized her son was terrified of her and she was exactly like her mother. I liked him when he learned Regina was trying to be a good person he was excited about that. Then of course they ruined his character. Season 1 Henry would have understood why Snow killed Cora. Because Cora was evil and at the time trying to murder his family. He saw the beginning of that fight didn't he? He would have though Snow was hero for saving them, he would have been mad and/or disappointed in Regina sided with Cora and once again tried to kill his family especially after promising him that she was trying to be good that should have really hurt and/or destroyed him.  Listen to what he says towards the end of Season Two when Regina tells him her plan to kill everyone and take him, before she memory wipes him. He was upset and angry.  They had so much to work with, with Henry. They chose instead to destroy his character and make him into president of the Regina fan club.

[Rumsy4]

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They had so much to work with, with Henry. They chose instead to destroy his character and make him into president of the Regina fan club.

And he is the parental figure in that relationship. He mothers Regina, not the other way around. In that scene with Henry Sr. in the UW, Henry Jr.'s role as a parental figure in Regina's life is reiterated. He gets to act out and lash out against Emma, becasue he can't/won't do it to Regina. He treats Regina like a delicate plant that everyone should love and support and trust unconditionally. It's just really sad and twisted, and the writers don't seem to realize the inversion. 

[KAOS Agent]

I think the biggest problem with Henry is that the writers don't know how to change his role. In early seasons, he was the cute kid that was meant to engage the kids in the audience and facilitate a connection between all of the characters. Henry was a character who got to be a part of the action and who all the adults listened to because he was the kid audience's fantasy character. He's the one they want to be and identify with. As a kid, Henry could get away with doing stupid things and having a really black and white view of the world while the adults in his life indulged those ideas because they didn't want to hurt a kid's feelings. It was stupid, particularly when Henry was upset about stopping a woman who was trying to kill them all, but it still made some sense.

The problem is that Henry isn't a cute kid anymore. In show, he's 13, but Jared is 16 and looks it. The writers even talk about how Henry's not a kid anymore and should be more involved in things. That would be fine except that if he's going to be taking on a more adult role, he also needs to be treated as such. That means no one pussyfoots around trying not to damage his naive view of the world. It means facing real consequences when he makes stupid decisions. It means that when he's a jerk to his mothers or any other adult out there, he gets taken to task for it. The writers seem to want Henry to be more involved and adult, but they refuse to change the reaction of those around him to match this newfound position. As we grow into adulthood, we learn lessons about life that adults had protected us from when we were children. Actions taken by a child get a very different reaction when taken by a teenager because the teenager knows better and if he doesn't know better, then he faces consequences to drive the lesson home.

A lot of terrible things have happened in Henry's life, but that doesn't excuse him when he's a selfish jerk. He petulantly ran off and his actions screwed over Zelena, Snowing and Hook. What if they couldn't get home? Zelena and Snowing have very young children who would have lost their parents. Now Hyde and a bunch of randoms are in Storybrooke threatening the town once again. Henry loves to yell at others when he objects to their actions, but will anyone point out to Henry what his actions have wrought? Doubtful. Without a reciprocal reaction to his poor choices, Henry becomes an unlikable hypocritical brat. I've never been a huge Henry fan, but the crap that went down in the S5 finale pushed me over the edge into real hatred. 

[KingOfHearts]

Henry has slowly morphed into Wesley Crusher.

[KAOS Agent]

This was in the comment section at the AV Club review of the Premiere. Someone who stopped watching asked what Henry was up to these days. This was the response. 

"He was made an Author, which is someone who's charged with a magic pen to write the stories of the characters, but the pen also had reality altering powers, so he destroyed it. Then last year, when they were in the Underworld and needed the pen for reasons I won't go into, he learned the Pen was a "living breathing" entity, and he actually KILLED it. He killed a pen. A pen. He killed. A pen. And because he killed it, it had a soul that was residing in the Underworld. So he got a ghost pen to help solve his problems...but not in a sensible way like writing the villain out of existence or giving everyone a permanent happy ending, because REASONS."

I love this person. Yes, Henry as the Author is the dumbest thing ever and this is exactly why.

[KingOfHearts]

This is why you don't give characters godlike powers. It makes no sense when they don't use them. If Henry knew Emma was slated to die, wouldn't he want to use his powers to prevent? I guess not since that isn't "heroic" and doesn't follow the laws of the Pen.

[Camera One]

Can't wait for the storyline where Henry realizes The Pen is running out of ink, and its "death" is imminent.

[KingOfHearts]

16 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Can't wait for the storyline where Henry realizes The Pen is running out of ink, and its "death" is imminent.

Time for another Underworld trip. Plot twist: Henry's True Love isn't Violet, but the Pen! He's choosing power over his love interest, just like his grandpa! He must split his heart with the Pen's to save it.

Edited September 28, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

Add Temple of Doom to the list of bizarre movies Henry loves. He probably marathoned all the Indiana Jones movies with Neal in the 2.5 days they hung out together, taking regular breaks to discuss pick-up lines and how to destroy magic. I'm sure Temple of Doom is actually Adam or Eddy's favorite Indiana Jones movie, as they tend to use Henry as a self-insert character. 

[Mathius]

26 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I'm sure Temple of Doom is actually Adam or Eddy's favorite Indiana Jones movie, as they tend to use Henry as a self-insert character. 

It obviously is, since reaching into someone and ripping out their heart while they still live was taken straight from it.

[Camera One]

I saw a poster for the new Harry Potter movie, and for a moment, I thought it was Henry with the striped scarf.  I wonder if the striped scarf for Henry was originally inspired by Harry Potter.  There are not many shows where an actor wears the same clothing accessories from age 10 to age 16.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Well, I ranted about Rumple and Belle. Now I guess it's Henry's turn again.

Out of all the characters in the show, Henry is by far the purest as a plot device. His well-being only matters when it accommodates the almighty plot. When Emma decided to move to Storybrooke from New York, she didn't think that Henry would lose his friends, his school routine, and a chance at being exposed to "normal" life. Neither of Henry's parents had any qualms with him going to the freaking Underworld. They didn't even suggest he go back when Ruby was making trips with the Silver Slippers. (And that was after Hades started writing their names on the tombstones.)

It's a double standard because sometimes the characters do care about him, but it's only because the plot needs them to. For example, Regina can't sacrifice herself to stop the Evil Queen because that would potentially leave him parent-less. They're just going to let the Evil Queen run around killing and cursing people due to a possibility they know so little about. (People and their lives are only important if they're related to Henry's family tree.) It's not like Henry would be a total orphan. He has two young grandparents he's closed to. I'm not saying that they should just kill Regina, but it's implied that his well-being is more important than the lives of innocents. The heroes, who are supposed to be the town leaders, do not put their citizens into consideration at all.* Henry is their god.

* Yes, I know Snowing sacrificed their hearts to stop the River of Lost Souls water, but in their minds, they were going to die either way. Their family was also in trouble, so the situation was more important to them. If only random citizens were in danger, they would have skipped the heart sacrifice and just tried other ideas. (With red shirt causalities along the way.)

Edited November 27, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

As with many of the characters, they use Henry for whatever's convenient for the plot.  

He's reduced to a few common roles:

1. To give Regina pep talks 

2. To remind Emma that heroes can't go it alone, and to guilt her when she tries to do anything herself

3. To create conflict for Hook during the three days per year when he hates his fish guts

4. To be a victim and Emma or Regina and usually both has to try to save him

When the story is actually about him, it's all over the place and even contradictory, the most common being (in recent times):

1. He's tired of being sidelined.  He wants to be a HERO, usually with the use of magic.

2. He's confidently out to destroy magic, because MAGIC RUINS EVERYTHING.

3. He's lacking in confidence, because maybe he's not good enough for Violet.

These generally appear in different episodes, so it's impossible to build a composite of the character as a whole.  He has no friends, and he rarely talks to his grandparents.  We don't know what he thinks about school, or Storybrooke, or the Enchanted Forest.  We have no idea how being The Author actually works.  Is he writing stories right now?  Does he still do it when he sleeps?  

Edited November 27, 2016 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

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He has no friends

Whatever happened to Avery and Mrs. Cue?

[Mari]

He and Avery probably drifted apart when Henry would've had to explain that he has grandparents that are the same age as his mother, that he has a second mother, and that the second mother is not Blonde Mom's current or former romantic partner, but is his grandmother's stepmother.  (And, coincidently, is currently making out with his other grandfather.)

Also, that the guy that was probably going to be his stepdad is dead, because Blonde Mom killed him, and that in the meantime, Blonde Mom has a very serious boyfriend that just moved in with them, and, yeah, it was that crazy stalker guy she had arrested just before they left town.

Oh, and he has a new cousin, who's the daughter of his other mom's sister and other mom's dead boyfriend.

And, yes, he is a twelve-going on sixteen-year-old boy who's obsessed with fairy tales.  

It would've been awkward.  

Edited November 28, 2016 by Mari
Forgot something.

[Camera One]

Having just marathoned the latter half of 5B (with the horribleness of Henry in the 2-hour finale), I do have to give Jared kudos for the one sad/pained expression he gave in the episode where Emma came up the elevator without Hook.  He really sold that one. 

[KingOfHearts]

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Jared Gilmore playing Pan in Henry's body was one of his better performances, so an evil Henry might be cool.

Not that Jared played villainy well, but I thought he was legitimately creepy. He looked and sounded like Henry, but Pan's subdued darkness pulled through. He did a lot better than Robbie Kay as Henry, to be honest. At the time, Jared could still do the childish innocence, which made it all the more unsettling. It wasn't a fantastic performance, but as you said, it was one of his better ones.

I believe Henry has reasons to become dark. Good never seems to really win, he's forced into a role of excess responsibility that makes no sense, he's always feels pushed around, and he's got that moody adolescent attitude in full force. He sees the Evil Queen and Rumple doing whatever they want and having control, while the heroes suffer losses. His dad died, his mother is presumably going to die, and his adoptive mother is split in half. (With the psychotic half being the only side who seems to care about him.) He has blamed magic for his afflictions, but since his efforts to destroy magic have failed in the past, he might think, "if you can't beat em, join em". He could justify using his Author powers for wrong reasons.

Really, if it weren't TS,TW, I would say they had been setting up Evil!Henry for a while.

[KingOfHearts]

I stumbled on this line from Henry to Emma: "You lied to me. You're just like Regina." It made me want to flip a table. Rumple made the same comparison in the next episode. I just hate it when Henry makes moral comparisons. He did the same thing in 5A when he said Regina and Rumple were better than Emma because they were trying to "change".

[Camera One]

Henry is used as a mouthpiece to express A&E's warped sense of morality.  They also used Belle in 5A to say Emma, like Rumple, succumbed to the darkness.   They think if a character says it, it must be true.  

[KingOfHearts]

Regina lying about the curse and Emma lying about Henry's father were not on the same plane. While people like Snow may say otherwise, I do believe Emma was not acting on pure selfishness. She didn't want Henry to be hurt or brokenhearted like she was. It was important for him to know his father, yes, but Regina's intentions were far less admirable. She wasn't protecting Henry from anything. She put him in the dark for years for her own ends. She lied about many, many things, yet if Emma slips up just once, she's just as horrible. Shut up, Henry.

Edited March 11, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

8 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Regina lying about the curse and Emma lying about Henry's father were not on the same plane. 

It's not in the same league at all.  Then again, these writers think Snow killing Cora was equivalent to Regina killing Leopold and trying to kill Snow, Charming and Emma and enacting the Curse.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Camera One

[InsertWordHere]

One thing I like about the new Henry is that, out of all his many relations, he most closely resembles his maternal grandmother, just like the old Henry. OUaT casting strikes again. 

[KingOfHearts]

This show makes a lot more sense when you imagine it as written by Henry. Maybe this is his fictionalized account of what happened, and what actually happened was a great story. Uh oh. I just gave it the ending to Roseanne, but in reverse.

Edited June 10, 2017 by KingOfHearts