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bravelittletoaster

My guide to surviving the zombie apocalypse

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Ok, I'm generally super shy about starting topics, but something I've always wanted to discuss in re: this show is how YOU would go about surviving the zombie apocalypse.  Anyone else interested in discussing?

Because just talking about how the show's been spinning its wheels in Georgia forever in the media thread called to mind my own strategy, which would be to find a moat basically--get my group of trusted living people to an island on a river or even one of the islands off the east coast.  It's easily defensible against intruders and basically impossible for zombies to reach.  

Also I'm very far from being a Pollyana about human nature or the human condition, but this show's even bleaker than I am on that front.  I think anyone interested in long term survival would be bent on community building and, frankly, building good breeding stock, or else what's the point?  So as group-averse as this show is in its world view, I would really want to try to build some sort of sustainable community on either an island or some sort of otherwise defensible position.  Zombies are a hell of a lot easier to thwart than Viking, Vandal or Visigoth hordes, so if communities in Europe were able to build walled cities to keep them out, I'm not sure why that wouldn't work "now."

 

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The problem with a coastal island is securing a source of fresh water, not many such islands have naturally occurring springs. Additionally there is the problem of storms and hurricanes, islands are extremely vulnerable. Further you are farther from scavenge able areas, and forays onto the mainland to scavenge require boats to bring it all back(which can be destroyed or otherwise lost in a storm). And an island gives you a false sense of security in that you are not protected from walkers washing up on shore or floating down a river, you'd need more than the water as your perimeter defense.

I think the Woodbury model is a good starting point. Begin with a few larger buildings that can be fortified and connected to form your inner defense line. Then work out from there clearing walkers and fortifying and connecting buildings in concentric rings from your starting point. The best defense is one done in depth, as one ring is compromised you can fall back to the next line. Any one lapse or breach will not compromise the entire community. A town or small city offers plenty of existing infrastructure to base a community on; shelter, roads, electrical/plumbing/sewage networks, a water tower, likely a water purification system or wells, and lots of scavengables to get your community going.

But unlike Woodbury the citizens would all have to work extremely hard to sustain this community; scrounging crews, guards, militia to actively go out and clear walkers daily, scouts, farmers, medical, tradesmen, etc. There'd be none of that lounging around on main street, tending the lawns or lemonade socials like at Woodbury, everyone would need to make contributions constantly and leisure time would be minimal.

As far as location, securing a reliable energy source would be vital to sustaining a viable community. The current natural gas fracking boom would provided just such an energy source. Secure an existing well or two and pipe it to your community and you'd have ample gas for running generators, heating buildings and fueling converted vehicles for decades. Supplement this with solar power and existing oil wells and you could build a thriving community. North central Pennsylvania would be an ideal location. The weather is not too extreme in the winter, the gas fracking is active in that area, there are plenty if existing oil wells, and it is far enough away and out of the drift pattern of the nuclear power plants that are sure to melt down eventually.

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The problem with islands being "easily defensible" is that...they aren't. There are going to be lots of people with the same idea, and lots of boats. It would be 24 hour a day firefight to stop landing parties, and sooner or later you run out of ammo. If you come up with a way to close off the boundaries from invaders, please share because we have an island here where we jokingly (kindasorta) have discussed a future plan. We have wells, rainwater cisterns. plenty of gardens, lots of room to raise animals...we could even blow the bridges, and it was once used as a prisoner of war camp during the Civil War...but we can't get around the problem of boats constantly coming from all directions.

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But an island would be easily defensible from zombies.  I guess I was maybe being a bit naive in thinking the living could simply reach rapprochement.  I get that man's the most dangerous animal blah blah blah, but lbr man also likes companionship and sex.  I feel like as long as one were living in a fairly fertile area and a stable climate peace agreements could be made to everyone's betterment.  I'm not very kumbaya irl, so it is kind of amusing if you knew me that I'm the one who's all "can't we all just get along?" but I just feel like in a zombie apocalypse all things being equal, I'd rather spend my time fucking than fighting and surely I could find some like minded individuals who were decent gardeners and fence builders.  Heh.  But Bongo Fury's totally valid points about fresh water and hurricanes also reminded me I hadn't put a ton of thought into it.

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I've thought along somewhat same lines as Bongofury, but not in concentric circles. I thought of clearing neighborhood houses in a square, connecting the homes with a panel of fencing between houses ( with some kind of visibility obstacle, and leaving one "alley" open. Use animal bait, or sound, to attract zombies into the interior of the square, then close it off.  Start another square a small distance away, keep doing it like a checkerboard. That way, you keep leaving yourself and your group multi-directions for escape routes, but keep building bigger and bigger corrals. One square of houses holds about a hundred walkers; connect the squares to make giant mega-squares. You don't have to kill the zombies right away, save ammo and have a scary enough collection to discourage marauding gangs (or make them waste their ammo). Cover the fence sections with kudzu or black plastic from trash bags, when the zombies don't see prey they just shuffle around. Paint or soap the windows of houses so the walkers don't see anyone inside, and you'd have shelters and storerooms. Meanwhile you'd be clearing a lot of territory, and removing a lot of walkers from the equation; they could be put down at a later date when you have taken care of your own immediate needs: shelter, growing food and possible raising game or small livestock (chickens, rabbits), securing a water source, setting up a mini-medical-center, a workshop for weapons and tools etc.


I'm a little nervous about bravelittletoaster's comment about "building good breeding stock". Heinrich, is that you?

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Just to prove I'm not some sort of peaceful loving hippie, I've also given a lot of thought to the fact that zombies seem to be attracted to fire and couldn't we somehow use that to cull their numbers?  I'd be all in favor of zombie culling practices when I wasn't busy gardening and enjoying free love in the living people commune.  Heh.

Cover the fence sections with kudzu

lol, I love that you've come up with a practical application for kudzu

ETA: Forever amused that I was the one to bring this up and have already been kicked off the committee.  I can't even really argue.  Heh.  But I do spend half my time watching this show thinking, "No, no, that's not how I would do it."

Edited by David T. Cole
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Did you know that all parts of kudzu except the vine are edible? The leaves reportedly taste (when prepared) like snow peas, the flowers can be used to make jelly or wine and contain, as do the leaves, vitamins. Best part is that the little potato-like roots provide protein, and can be dried and ground to make a breading flour or meal. It's been used as forage for livestock also. So if you're in Georgia when the ZA hits, you should be able to eat forever; at least you couldn't consume it as fast as it regrows!

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Wow, I did not know that.  So do people commonly eat kudzu?  Or is it like dandelion, which is also edible but most people don't realize that / don't bother / don't appreciate it?  [My grandma used to take me out harvesting dandelion leaves with her on her farm, and she'd prepare them with bacon and onion in a skillet.  I wouldn't touch it as a child, but as an adult I think it's probably something I'd like but still haven't tried.]

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I was just always mad that, while they were at the prison, they never dug a moat. Or a big ditch. Build a drawbridge or something for human use. Then every night, set fire to the zombies in the moat and roast marshmallows. Then they wouldn't have had the fence problem.

Then again, on Lost, I spent the first three seasons being angry that no one had yet circumnavigated the island. What if there was a luxury resort on the other side of the island? They never would have known!

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I was just always mad that, while they were at the prison, they never dug a moat. Or a big ditch. Build a drawbridge or something for human use. Then every night, set fire to the zombies in the moat and roast marshmallows.

Yes, thank you.  I've always felt like we needed more zombie flambee.

ETA: And can I just say here for lack of a better place to put it that it always and forever drives me insane that no one has ever used the "Z" word on this show?  For some reason the fact that this is an alternate universe where no one has ever heard the word "zombie" is a harder pill for me to swallow than the fact that it's a universe where a zombie apocalypse has occurred.  I just needed to get that off my chest.

Edited by bravelittletoaster
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Toaster, I always thought they should head for an island too, never considered the water problem though. I thought moats would of been a great idea along with those spiky wooden trap fences instead of just a chain link fence.

I think a treehouse community might work. Didn't the Ewoks have such a community? I would think a treehouse community with lots of boobytraps on the ground would be cool.

Perhaps some well camouflaged houses on the woods coverd in kudzu? With underground escape tunnels?

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Oh, yes!  I've often thought they should take to the trees more, too.  Obviously you'd need to take some sort of projectile weapon with you so you could pick off the zombies beneath, but it's an advantageous vantage point, and lbr zombies are kind of useless.  They can't even get up a ladder and I think a steep set of stairs would thwart them as well.

Edited by bravelittletoaster
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I'd find the biggest grass field I could and stay in the middle of it.

The walkers would be too busy mowing the grass to attack me.
 

...my own strategy, which would be to find a moat basically--get my group of trusted living people to an island on a river or even one of the islands off the east coast.  It's easily defensible against intruders and basically impossible for zombies to reach.

Another problem with an island, aside from those mentioned, is that once someone dies and turns, you're trapped.

I was just always mad that, while they were at the prison, they never dug a moat. Or a big ditch. Build a drawbridge or something for human use. Then every night, set fire to the zombies in the moat and roast marshmallows. Then they wouldn't have had the fence problem.

A moat means stagnant water, which means insects, which means insect borne diseases such as malaria, which means people inside the perimeter are at greater risk of dying from disease and then turning.

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The mirror cube is brilliant Kikismom. Toaster, have buckets of rocks stashed all over the place and you have your projectiles. Sharpend wooden spears and javalins, waste buckets (gross) dumped on wandering packs of Merls. Rain barrels (doesn't seem to rain much in GA though) and lots and lots of booby traps. It could be like Rube Goldberg contraptions as seen on Tom and Gerry! A great science project for the youn ones.

Or you can just get a bunch of houses and rig them up like Home Alone movies.

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A moat means stagnant water, which means insects, which means insect borne diseases such as malaria, which means people inside the perimeter are at greater risk of dying from disease and then turning.

Not necessarily.  I pumped out most of my swimming pool after it became a mating duck honeymoon suite in 2003 and my pool guy quit (the 2 ducks have returned every spring, so I'm wondering if this is the year they bite the big one).  The pool has been a stagnant swamp ever since, and sustains all the animals in the area.  A simple trip to pick up 3 mosquito fish (free from County of San Diego Vector Control) resulted in thousands of ravenous fishies; between them and the insectivore birds who are drawn to my "pond", my back yard is virtually insect free (but I have shitpiles of butterflies and bees).   Add something hardy like tilapia or catfish and you could be in business (heck, I've seen people who have hydroponic rig-ups set over their stagnant swimming pool water, so there must be a way.

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I get that stagnant water can be a drag, but moats are a pretty tried and true method of defense.  I suppose it would depend on your climate though.  Stagnant water probably is apt to get nastier in Georgia in July than, say, northern Europe.

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I was just always mad that, while they were at the prison, they never dug a moat.

I think Greg Nicotero said in an interview that they actually tried to dig a moat around the prison set, but it quickly filled up with quicksand, so they couldn't do it.  Quicksand!  Mosquitoes, horrible plagues, debilitating heat and sweat -- moral of the story -- get out of the deep south!

Just wondering -- if you lived in Europe, would you try to inhabit an old castle?  Or if you lived in the Americas near an old Spanish fort, would you try living there?  Pro?  Cons?

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I like to mull over different ideas; and this one is really different...but you could grow a rooftop garden, be protected from gunfire, bad weather, fire, and you could control who comes in, not to mention it wouldn't be as obvious to marauders that this was being used as a hide-out (like perhaps a castle or fort would be?)

What do you think? Would this work?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Lauttasaari_water_tower_cross-section.svg/590px-Lauttasaari_water_tower_cross-section.svg.png

(BTW, it's a water tower, cross-section.)

Edited by kikismom

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I have thought through this extensively.

I live in the Appalachian mountains and my family owns a mid-sized piece of land (87 acres) that includes a small orchard, a small farm (we have pigs, chickens, and a few cows), and fields for hay, sorghum, potatoes, corn, and a bean patch along with a small herb and kitchen garden. Since this takes up a good chunk of the mountain (it is a small one), I would reinforce the fencing for the majority of the fields to keep out Zs. For the humans, I was thinking an electric fence powered by either a small hydroelectric dam, wind turbines, and most certainly photovoltaic cells.

I'm going to invite others to live on the commune, as I like to call it, to provide good breeding stock. If others come along and I like them, they can join.

My family consists of many, many EMTs, so we have some medical care, and I'm in the early stages of midwifery training (so that's a plus!). My family has also lived off the land for generations, so we know what's up. We also have a lot of guns, but would probably use quieter, more sustainable weapons if it was only a few Zs.

Of course, there are other things to consider. But this is the basic gist of what I've decided.

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I do often find myself wondering what's going on on other continents in the world of this show.  Also anywhere other than Georgia.  And wondering whether some climates are better suited to this post-apocalyptic scenario than others.  Winter has obvious disadvantages, but zombie-sicles might be easier to dispatch.  And it could make for some pretty cool effects...

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I have no idea what I would do. I am a true blue city gal. I have a bug out bag but the closest I've ever come to roughing it is the occasional hike on the local hiking trail. 

Edited by Milaxx

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I live in at the foot of the Rockies out west, near major population centers.  I think about fleeing into the mountains, but I think tons of people would have the same idea, and you'd die trying to get up I-70 or other roads.  In addition, they are very hard to live in during the winter, and not good for growing things.  So I guess I would try to head out to the far less inhabited plain states and try growing stuff to live on.  The winters would be rough, and it would be impossible to hide though. 

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The one thing I'm super afraid of is the road congestion issue. With me, it's not a problem, but I know a lot of people will be fleeing my way. The poor souls are going to get stuck in traffic as hordes just eat their way down the lanes and turning more people into them. I think, when I can afford it, I'm going to get a better car/truck/SUV. My little front wheeled drive sedan is going to get me in trouble.

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The show's outlook on human nature is so bleak I'm not sure if I even want any of these people to survive the zombie apocalypse.  If Rick and his tiny band of merry men are literally the last decent people on earth [an impression the show is giving me this season], what really am I rooting for?  Just for them to see out their own lives before the entire species is relegated to the dustbin of history?  If this is all that's left, poor Carl and Judith.  Because best case scenario is they'll outlive the older members of the group for...what exactly?  So I know I started this topic in the interests of spitballing survival strategies, but the question of whether it's even worth it is kind of creeping in on me.  I hope what's left of the world isn't just a bunch of Terminuses.  [Termini?]  Otherwise I say, fuck it, just give it all back to the deer and bears.

Edited by bravelittletoaster
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bravelittletoaster:  Jeez! You wonder why you're off the Apocalypse Planning Committee?  :-)  I hope that wouldn't be your rally speech if we all get locked in a train car!

You have to remember, it's a big world, it would be better and worse in different places, just like any other disaster.  All we've seen on the show is this one relatively rinky-dink area. I don't even think they ever made it a hundred miles. Just imagine how people felt during World War II, or during the Black Death in Europe. At the time of the ZA (even if it started tomorrow) the world would start out with a good ball-park figure of 7 billion people. Even 1% survival rate would be 70 million survivors. Judith and Carl wouldn't be alone. It's better than a nuclear holocaust; even if you weren't directly hit, there would be fallout turning the world to winter, nothing would grow, and everything would be poisoned. In the ZA, you can still grow food or raise livestock, you can destroy the enemy-a zombie, not a gamma-ray, and I think most deaths came early because people weren't ready for such a thing, and then a lot of people were in shock. After a time, the reaction should change. People would go from day-to-day scrambling to making long-range proactive plans. As far as the marauders...well, doesn't that work the same way now? You only hear about the criminals, good people don't get that much attention because they're busy minding their business, keeping to themselves. It won't be a world for lazy people, or mopey types. But that isn't necessarily a bad thing.  

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brave little toaster - you're beginning to sound like Rust Cohle!

It won't be a world for lazy people, or mopey types. But that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

I resemble that remark, kikismom.   :-)

Weird old hermits just might have a chance, since we're already skilled at avoiding everyone.  Also, being mopey lets you think about worst case scenarios and plan for them, and being lazy makes you find the practical solutions and conserve your energy for when you really need it. 

That's my story & I'm sticking to it.

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brave little toaster - you're beginning to sound like Rust Cohle!

LOL, someone did a Rust Cohle / music industry [my profession] mash up tumblr that spoke to my soul.  But I digress...

I mean, want to believe there are like-minded pockets of people out there who could world-build with our band of survivors, but all the show has shown us is seriously fucked-up situations like Woodbury, marauding rape bands and now Terminus.  I get that the zombie apocalypse is bleak, but eventually I'm going to throw up my hands and say, "Alright, show, you win.  Nothing good remains."  

But, having said that, I am somewhat rallied by kikismom's pep talk.  Maybe there'd be a nice agrarian/free love zombie apocalypse commune in upstate NY or something.  I'm sure my people are out there somewhere.  Heh.

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Ok to elaborate on my treehouse community. I would capture a load of walkers and um break of their jaw like Michonne did. And cut of their hands. And tether them to the perimeter. That way people would likely avoid us. And if they did get curioise and investigate, once

they got past the walkers there would be a shitload of boobytraps. Because I love booby traps. Or is it boobie traps?

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The show's outlook on human nature is so bleak I'm not sure if I even want any of these people to survive the zombie apocalypse.  If Rick and his tiny band of merry men are literally the last decent people on earth [an impression the show is giving me this season], what really am I rooting for?  Just for them to see out their own lives before the entire species is relegated to the dustbin of history?  If this is all that's left, poor Carl and Judith.  Because best case scenario is they'll outlive the older members of the group for...what exactly?  So I know I started this topic in the interests of spitballing survival strategies, but the question of whether it's even worth it is kind of creeping in on me.  I hope what's left of the world isn't just a bunch of Terminuses.  [Termini?]  Otherwise I say, fuck it, just give it all back to the deer and bears.

 

"Ah caught zero logic in that.  And that last bit -- pure gibberish." ;)

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The show's outlook on human nature is so bleak I'm not sure if I even want any of these people to survive the zombie apocalypse.  If Rick and his tiny band of merry men are literally the last decent people on earth [an impression the show is giving me this season], what really am I rooting for?  Just for them to see out their own lives before the entire species is relegated to the dustbin of history?  If this is all that's left, poor Carl and Judith.  Because best case scenario is they'll outlive the older members of the group for...what exactly?

I don't really know.

I've been thinking of the TS-19 episode since viewers often ask why Glenn, who visited the CDC in its final day, doesn't call Eugene on his shit.  When I last watched TS-19, I was struck by how many of the people were now dead.  If I counted correctly

Dead: Andrea, Dale, Jacqui, Jenner, Lori, Shane, Sophie, T-Dog

Still Alive: Rick, Carl, Carol, Daryl, Glenn

Ultimately, Dale's attempt to save Andrea was fruitless, and a majority of them are now dead.  Even if you leave out Jacqui and Jenner since they chose to die, that's still only a 45% survival rate after a relatively short period of time.

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I live in central Florida. The obvious place to me is Disney World. It's a self-contained city.It would take a while to clear the parks but then it would be fairly secure. You could walk between parks on the monorail tracks out of reach of walkers. I'd probably hole up at Epcot Center.  There are huge greenhouses all around the complex with a large hydoponic vegetable garden in The Land. Fresh, flowing water nearby. Almost everything is fenced in. There's also an extensive system of underground tunnels. It's perfect.  With any luck, alligators eat Walkers.

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I'd make my way to Hyde County in Eastern North Carolina. It's home to two large fresh water lakes and is surrounded on 3 sides of the county by the Pamlico Sound and the Atlantic Ocean. Current population is little over 6,000 people in a county that is 613 square miles in size. compare that to Mecklenburg county in North Carolina (Charlotte, NC) with over 1 million people in a county that is 525 square miles in size. 

Pretty much all of Coastal North Carolina would be similar. Lots of freshwater rivers, lakes, and sounds with very low populations to deal with. Lots of farmland. 

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I live in central Florida. The obvious place to me is Disney World. It's a self-contained city.It would take a while to clear the parks but then it would be fairly secure. You could walk between parks on the monorail tracks out of reach of walkers. I'd probably hole up at Epcot Center.  There are huge greenhouses all around the complex with a large hydoponic vegetable garden in The Land. Fresh, flowing water nearby. Almost everything is fenced in. There's also an extensive system of underground tunnels. It's perfect.  With any luck, alligators eat Walkers.

I like the way you think.  I also like the way it reminds me of Zombieland.

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I live on an island. First thing I'm doing when the ZA hits is blowing up that bridge. Then I'll set to clearing the island. We have plenty of fresh water and deer. There will be a lot or reanimated golfers I'll have to dispense of.

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TOOMUCHCOFFEE: Not only do I love the DisneyWorld idea, but I confess that I've wondered over the years if the whole thing isn't some giant Potemkin Village, you know? After all, the Federal Government used the White Sulphur Springs resort in West Virginia as a cover-up for an underground bunker for the WH to operate in nuclear war. It was outed years ago, but if they've done it once, I'm sure they've done it a few times. Underground tunnels, hydroponic gardens, water and housing and medical and even a jail underground, mega-food storage, set-up for large populations of animals in the Animal Kingdom. But a theme park makes an excuse for all of it, even construction, shipping and delivery, everything.

Pixiebomb: I'll help you dispense of the golfers. Even do it for free. Even if they aren't reanimated. Just...because.

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 kikismom - ;)   Not to go too much off-topic but my uncle, a Marine in WW2, worked for Caterpillar machinery.. He lived in WV and got the contract to do all of the excavation of the Greenbriar. That would also be a great ZA hangout.

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Living in Washington State, my plan is island life. There are masses of small islands in the San Juans, some occupied some not. Once cleared of any walkers we'd have wonderful conditions for growing crops. Sail boats could go on runs to the mainland to collect livestock and other supplies. Never too hot, rarely too cold.

Keep lookouts on the beaches to watch for intruders. Maybe luck out and have a lighthouse already onsite.

The only thing that bothers me is the members of your group that could turn without warning (heart attack, stroke, a bad fall, etc). That is always such an x-factor, not just for the possibility of attack, but what if they're on watch and you get infiltrated because they weren't able to warn everyone. Living alone seems just as hazardous, and I'd surely die of loneliness.

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Yeah, the whole "everyone is infected" thing that seems unique to this zombie apocalypse is a daunting wrinkle. In most universes with zombies you have to be bitten and it's a hell of a lot easier to control for.

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Toomuchcoffee: That's cool, he would know how big it is! Yeah, it would be a nice hide-out; actually the mountains in WV are great because they aren't as bad as the Rockies, not near cities, you can grow things, and there are lots of small lakes and rivers. and caves!

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My plan would be to hole up in one of those isolated superstore Walmarts or Coscos, maybe even one with a gas station attached or very close. They would have all the supplies, bottled water, potential weapons, and entertainment you could possibly ask for. It would be easily defensible due to their limited entrances and exits, huge solid walls, flat roof for surveillance, and flat large parking lot that makes anyone approaching visible.
 

I would image with the right team it could be easily cleared, claimed, and mantained like how the Walking Dead gang cleared the prison, but it should be easier because there are no regular live-in inhabitance of a superstore like there are in a prison and no armed forces would ever be sent to secure a superstore so no need to worry about killing zombies in riot gear.

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I agree with a lot people have said in the thread. However, the only bad thing about Costco, Walmart, etc. is that there will undoubtedly be swarms of people in the beginning stages of the ZA that will try to go to places like that to get supplies. Add in the people that will simply try to claim a Walmart in the beginning of the ZA and just try to stay * live there...fighting with people over supplies. I would suspect many people would die & turn in the Walmart...causing lots of havoc. 

Maybe they would a good spot several months to a year from the start of the ZA, but I don't think those big box stores would be ideal.

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Exactly!

Also...

Wal-Mart saves on the electic bill by taking advantage of natural light---through plastic type roofing that works like a skylight. Once people start crowding up there, to avoid the herds, it would collapse even worse than the BigStop in the show. They even collapse now because of snow.

Wal-Mart may not have live-in residents, but there's always at least 70 people working, many whom you do not see. Just imagine all their loved ones invited to hide in there, which is what they would do,( and lock the doors.)

It's one of those DontEvenThinkAbout because it's too obvious; as michaelbond says it's the same idea that thousands of other people would have, like islands, if your idea of sanctuary is a 24/7 firefight against constant attempts to take over (at least until you run out of ammo) then that's what you'll end up with! Don't pick obvious places unless you like never-ending violence.

Pick a place that wouldn't occur to other people.

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Out of the mainstream sources of resources will be key.

I mean, everyone's going to head for that Twinkie factory in the next town over.

From Life As We Knew It I wouldn't ignore Hallmark stores - source of candles that might not be raided first. Walmart would be a zombie hellhole (somethings won't change in an apocalypse), but maybe everyone would forget KMart (somethings won't change in an apocalypse?).

As an East Coaster, I think I would head west. Less people = less zombies, right? Also, I used to rock at Oregon Trail. I'm sure those skill convey, right?

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KarateKate said:

As an East Coaster, I think I would head west. Less people = less zombies, right? Also, I used to rock at Oregon Trail. I'm sure those skill convey, right?

_______

> As long as you have better skills than the Donner Party...

(I'm sorry. The quotes aren't behaving.)

Edited by TooMuchCoffee
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