I'd Like To Thank the Academy... Someday: Awards, Nominations and Recognition

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Sorry, I wasn’t trying to nitpick at you. I was just wondering if there was a reason known to people who regularly use Canadagraphs why they categorised the actors the way they did. 

 

Thanks for sharing these by the way :)

Maybe it's explained on the site under the rules and regulations.. 

[catrox14]

Another Round of Voting is Open THIS ONE IS CRITICAL.

CURRENT CATEGORIES BEING VOTED ON - Best Talk Show Host, Best Non-Human Character or Prop, Sexiest Actor, Sexiest Actress,

If you all don't vote for the Impala, you should turn in your fan card RIGHT MEOW

 

Quote

Arrow Cave "Arrow"

Rapunzel The Corgi "Dirk Gentlys Holistic Detective Agency

"The TARDIS "Doctor Who"Daenerys Dragons "Game Of Thrones"

Lucifers Corvette "Lucifer"

The Impala "Superatural"

S.T.A.R. Labs"The Flash"L

ucille "The Walking Dead

"The Time Machines "Timeless

"Peacemaker "Wynonna Earp"

 

https://canadagraphs.weebly.com/best-of-tv-awards-2017.html

Quote

Sexiest Actor (1 Ballot - 1 Selection)

Alex O'Loughlin

Chris Evans

Chris Hemsworth

Christian Kane

Colin O'Donoghue

Grant Gustin

Idris Elba

Jared Padalecki

Jason Momoa

Jeffrey Dean Morgan

Jensen Ackles

Shemar Moore

Stephen Amell

Tom Ellis

Tom Hiddleston

[Wayward Son]

7 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Another Round of Voting is Open THIS ONE IS CRITICAL.

CURRENT CATEGORIES BEING VOTED ON - Best Talk Show Host, Best Non-Human Character or Prop, Sexiest Actor, Sexiest Actress,

If you all don't vote for the Impala, you should turn in your fan card RIGHT MEOW

 

 

https://canadagraphs.weebly.com/best-of-tv-awards-2017.html

Thanks for the link and just cast my votes :) 

[catrox14]

More Canadagraphs Best of TV Voting

https://canadagraphs.weebly.com/best-of-tv-awards-2017.html

Quote

 

Favorite TV Character (1 Ballot - 1 Selection)

Castiel - SUPERNATURAL

Dean Winchester - SUPERNATURAL

Sam Winchester - SUPERNATURAL

 

 

Quote

Best Director

Robert Singer "All Along The Watchtower" (Supernatural)

Richard Speight Jr. "Stuck In The Middle [With You]" (Supernatural)

Best Writing

Supernatural

Best Stunts

Supernatural

 

I'm totally voting for Supernatural for Best Stunts because Jensen driving and they do have pretty darn good and brutal fight scenes IMO. 

Edited February 21, 2018 by catrox14

[DeeDee79]

5 hours ago, catrox14 said:

More Canadagraphs Best of TV Voting

https://canadagraphs.weebly.com/best-of-tv-awards-2017.html

 

I'm totally voting for Supernatural for Best Stunts because Jensen driving and they do have pretty darn good and brutal fight scenes IMO. 

Thanks @catrox14! My votes have been cast :)

[catrox14]

CURRENT CATEGORIES BEING VOTED ON - Best Animated Program, Best Recurring Actor, Best Recurring Actress, Best Guest Actor, Best Guest Actress, Best Youth Actor, Best Youth Actress, Best Episode

Categories DONE - Best Director, Best Writing, Best Stunts, Best Talk Show Host, Best Non-Human Character or Prop, Favorite TV Character, Favorite TV Program, Best Couple, Sexiest Actor, Sexiest Actress,Next round

https://canadagraphs.weebly.com/best-of-tv-awards-2017.html

Quote

Best Recurring Actress (1 Ballot - 1 Selection)

Kim Rhodes "Supernatural"

Best Recurring Actor (1 Ballot - 1 Selection)

Adam Fergus "Supernatural"

Alexander Calvert "Supernatural"

Best Guest Actress (1 Ballot - 1 Selection)

Ruth Connell "Supernatural"

Kathryn Newton "Supernatural"

Best Guest Actor (1 Ballot - 1 Selection)

Ty Olsson "Supernatural" ****  The 100

Jim Beaver "Supernatural"

Osric Chau "Supernatural"

Best Episode (1 Ballot - 1 Selection)

Regarding Dean "Supernatural"

Who We Are "Supernatural"

All Along The Watchtower "Supernatural"

The Bad Place "Supernatural"

****(I am legit confused by Ty Olsson being on here. He hasn't been on the show since s10. Is this a spoiler or a mistake?  If it's a spoiler sorry, he's on the ballot)

 

Turns out it was a mistake. He's not up for SPN

Edited February 27, 2018 by catrox14
Mistake in the poll itself.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

CURRENT CATEGORIES BEING VOTED ON - Best Animated Program, Best Recurring Actor, Best Recurring Actress, Best Guest Actor, Best Guest Actress, Best Youth Actor, Best Youth Actress, Best Episode

Categories DONE - Best Director, Best Writing, Best Stunts, Best Talk Show Host, Best Non-Human Character or Prop, Favorite TV Character, Favorite TV Program, Best Couple, Sexiest Actor, Sexiest Actress,Next round

https://canadagraphs.weebly.com/best-of-tv-awards-2017.html

I just can't imagine that an autograph-hound/stalkerazzi website is the place that would get exclusive insider knowledge of an upcoming guest appearance though. Was there a place for write-in nominations? I wonder if Ty's fans banded together for it? Not to say I don't think he would totally deserve an award - he's a great actor - just a weird place to turn up is all. 

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I just can't imagine that an autograph-hound/stalkerazzi website is the place that would get exclusive insider knowledge of an upcoming guest appearance though. Was there a place for write-in nominations? I wonder if Ty's fans banded together for it? Not to say I don't think he would totally deserve an award - he's a great actor - just a weird place to turn up is all. 

Oh that's a good point about the write ins. I still don't see how he would be in it for Supernatural though if this rule still is in place.

BEST GUEST ACTOR
(Minimum 1 to a maximum 2 appearances in 2017)

He didn't appear at all in 2017, so if it's a last minute write in he can't have been for SPN.  Was in AW or the Bad Place and it got cut? Ty's IMDB doesn't have any appearances for 2017. I am so confused.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

Oh that's a good point about the write ins. I still don't see how he would be in it for Supernatural though if this rule still is in place.

BEST GUEST ACTOR
(Minimum 1 to a maximum 2 appearances in 2017)

He didn't appear at all in 2017, so if it's a last minute write in he can't have been for SPN.  Was in AW or the Bad Place and it got cut? Ty's IMDB doesn't have any appearances for 2017. I am so confused.

Maybe they just don't monitor it that closely? These 'awards' are for hits to the website, so maybe they just aren't that diligent about checking?

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Maybe they just don't monitor it that closely? These 'awards' are for hits to the website, so maybe they just aren't that diligent about checking?

I don't know about that with this one. I don't think it's entirely click bait to the bitter end though. They get the hits early on and then limit it to 1 vote per IP in the final rounds. And it does work. Even if I vote again, it comes back and says 'Thank you. We have already counted your vote". I think they do monitor it.

And I think there was a case where something was incorrect in a poll and they took down that poll and re did it. So I think they try to be fairly, ....fair. 

ETA: Folks can get around that by using a VPN but that's a lot of work to spam vote.

And I don't think spam bots are really interested in that poll

[gonzosgirrl]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I don't know about that with this one. I don't think it's entirely click bait to the bitter end though. They get the hits early on and then limit it to 1 vote per IP in the final rounds. And it does work. Even if I vote again, it comes back and says 'Thank you. We have already counted your vote". I think they do monitor it.

I'm not trying to be dismissive, but even if your vote doesn't count more than once, the hits to the website do, which is (IMO) the point of these awards. I don't think they are deliberately letting an error fly, just saying maybe they aren't so diligent that a mistake slips through. Even if he were going to be on an upcoming episode and it's been kept secret, he still wouldn't qualify for 2017 - and we know he wasn't on then.

[catrox14]

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

 

understand that.  I wasn't saying it wasn't click bait. I'm saying the hits are mostly at the beginning when all the unlimited voting happens. IMO, they wouldn't have changed to 1 vote per IP if it were 100% about the clicks given once a person votes in a final round they aren't likely to come back and vote again. I did it just to see if it was really working that way and it seems to be the case.I

 I totally agree it's clickbait, as any of these polls are. Not suggesting otherwise.

[catrox14]

Okay, mystery resolved. It's an error.

Canadagraphs replied with this

Quote

thanks for the heads up on that. Was so busy focused on typing it out fast, didnt even realize that wasnt the show he was up for.

So I think they'll adjust the poll. 

Yeah, it's been changed. He's up for The 100, not Supernatural. 

Ah well, maybe we'll still get Benny another time.

Edited February 27, 2018 by catrox14

[catrox14]

More voting open.

  https://canadagraphs.weebly.com/best-of-tv-awards-2017.html

Quote

Best Sci-Fi or Fantasy Actor (1 Ballot - 1 Selection)

Jensen Ackles "Supernatural"

Jared Padalecki "Supernatural"

Misha Collins "Supernatural"

 

Quote

Best Sci-Fi or Fantasy Program (1 Ballot - 1 Selection)

Supernatural (CW)

More voting open.

  https://canadagraphs.weebly.com/best-of-tv-awards-2017.html

Quote

Best Sci-Fi or Fantasy Actor (1 Ballot - 1 Selection)

Jensen Ackles "Supernatural"

Jared Padalecki "Supernatural"

Misha Collins "Supernatural"

 

Quote

Best Sci-Fi or Fantasy Program (1 Ballot - 1 Selection)

Supernatural (CW)

[Res]

On 3/7/2018 at 8:28 AM, catrox14 said:

More voting open.

  https://canadagraphs.weebly.com/best-of-tv-awards-2017.html

 

More voting open.

  https://canadagraphs.weebly.com/best-of-tv-awards-2017.html

 

I didn't see the sci-fi program selection but got the rest. Thanks for keeping us updated!

[catrox14]

18 minutes ago, Res said:

I didn't see the sci-fi program selection but got the rest. Thanks for keeping us updated!

Hmm. That's weird. It was there when I posted that. Maybe it cycled out before you were able to vote?

[catrox14]

Welp, in an upset, Lucifer's Corvette from "Lucifer" beat our Baby.   I'm legit unhappy about this

Lucifer ruins everything, even on a different show.

Jensen came in 3rd for sexiest actor

[Wayward Son]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Welp, in an upset, Lucifer's Corvette from "Lucifer" beat our Baby.   I'm legit unhappy about this

Lucifer ruins everything, even on a different show.

Jensen came in 3rd for sexiest actor

If it helps, the impala still would not have won even without him.

Edited March 12, 2018 by Wayward Son

[catrox14]

Just now, Wayward Son said:

If it helps, the impala still would not have won even without him.

Really? No, that doesn't help. I was making an anti-Lucifer joke. And since you don't like the Impala....

[gonzosgirrl]

43 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Really? No, that doesn't help. I was making an anti-Lucifer joke. And since you don't like the Impala....

Yep. And if people were incline to vote for a car, the Corvette probably split the vote. ;) 

It's weird though - Lucifer/Tom Ellis fans must've gone to town for these awards, because the car is in very few episodes and it's really not a 'thing'. It's kind of cool that the Impala beat out the TARDIS though.

ETA: Looking through the winners, it's pretty clear that there are not many mainstream actors/shows included. These kinds of 'awards' are popular for those of us who are fans of people/shows that don't get much industry attention in any of the 'real' awards. It's too bad there is such snobbery because there are some damn fine actors and scenes/episodes, if not entire series, that deserve recognition.

Edited March 12, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[DittyDotDot]

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

If it helps, the impala still would not have won even without him.

Not that I really care one way or another, but we don't know which way the ones who voted for Lucifer's Corvette would've voted if it wasn't on the ballot. It could be all those votes went to Baby and they won by a landslide; or it could be the Arrow Cave got them all; or they split between all the choices. We really don't have enough data to say one way or the other here.

[Pondlass1]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

because the car is in very few episodes

I watch Lucifer and didn't even know he drove a car.  (I wish he'd be a lot more devilish)

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It's too bad there is such snobbery because there are some damn fine actors and scenes/episodes, if not entire series, that deserve recognition.

I agree. I can hardly watch most hour long drama (hospital, law enforcement, family, etc) series offerings because of the dreadful overwrought acting and sappy writing. Yet these shows get the ratings and the attention. Maybe it's me... but night time TV is becoming as soapy and soupy as daytime TV (IMO of course).  I was forced to watch The Blue Blood (or whatever) at a friend's house ... OMG how does this sucky unrealistic rubbish get such high ratings?  

Of course I'm biased, but Supernatural suffers more from unimaginative writing than affected acting.  I seem more able to enjoy horror or supernatural fodder for some reason (although I can no longer watch X-files because of Gillian's scratchy voice and TWD is now an illogical mess)

[gonzosgirrl]

Wait, what the...huh? No. Just... no. LMAO! No.

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Wait, what the...huh? No. Just... no. LMAO! No.

That...cannot be true. Not against the likes of other shows. OKAY LOL

[gonzosgirrl]

21 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

That...cannot be true. Not against the likes of other shows. OKAY LOL

Not unless 'Best Writing' literally mean writing, as in penmanship, and they turn in scripts in calligraphy or something. Because writing writing? No freaking way.

Even the most ardent, die-hard fan of all time cannot really believe SPN has the best writing on television.

Edited March 14, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[catrox14]

Maybe it's because this was Best Episode? I'm shocked this won but happy!

 

This one makes me happy as well! That's great considering the competition. I'm telling you. Jensen doing his own stunt driving makes a lot of difference. IMO

 

[gonzosgirrl]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Maybe it's because this was Best Episode? I'm shocked this won but happy!

 

This one makes me happy as well! That's great considering the competition. I'm telling you. Jensen doing his own stunt driving makes a lot of difference. IMO

 

That is cool, yeah. It's just hard to appreciate when you see some of the other winners, lol.

[Casseiopeia]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Wait, what the...huh? No. Just... no. LMAO! No.

Honestly this was the only episode in S12 that I will re watch.  Congrats to SPN!

[gonzosgirrl]

19 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

Honestly this was the only episode in S12 that I will re watch.  Congrats to SPN!

Was it for one episode though? Because I'm in agreement with Regarding Dean, but even that was down to Jensen's performance, not the writing.

[Wayward Son]

Personally, I think Asa Fox and Stuck in the Middle With You were more deserving winners, but since this episodes in my top 3 or 4 I'll not complain too much ;) 

[SueB]

4 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Not unless 'Best Writing' literally mean writing, as in penmanship, and they turn in scripts in calligraphy or something. Because writing writing? No freaking way.

Even the most ardent, die-hard fan of all time cannot really believe SPN has the best writing on television.

I think the writing is pretty damn good.  Yes, there are gaps and some plotonium.  But I see a lot more nuance and layers week to week than most posters on this board.  If the voters for this award is a random fandom voting, then the winner is simply a populariy contest. But honestly, the presumption that this forum is indicative of how the rest of the fandom feels is IMO incorrect.

I don't think the writers are lazy.

I do think the writers care a great deal.

I find they make a big effort at continuity with B-L a noteable exception.

I think Dabb works a long game (perhaps too long).

I think Berens understand the characters very very well and knows what the fandom needs to see.  Things like the fight with the boys & Mary last season, and again 12.22 were examples of how much he understands.

I think the things that set people off are based on misaligned expectations and umbrage at perceived slights.  That's certainly well within people's rights to have those interpretations but not everyone feels that way. (Example: That Sam led the raid on the BMoL)

[Casseiopeia]

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Was it for one episode though? Because I'm in agreement with Regarding Dean, but even that was down to Jensen's performance, not the writing.

The first tweet says Regarding Dean.  So I assumed it was just for that one episode.

[enaiowen]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

I think the writing is pretty damn good

Agreed.  Supernatural is the only show I watch aside from the occasional British detective series.  It's not that I haven't tried other programs but I tend to find them (including all those critical and ratings darlings) to be terribly overwrought and far more derivitave and repetive than Supernatural ever dreamed of being.

Beyond that, the biggest thing that sets the show apart for me is that in all of those critically acclaimed, award winning shows, I have not found another actor or actress who makes me forget they are simply reading lines written for them by someone else.  No matter how well acted or how good the writing, I see just that. An actor playing a part.

Tried "This is Us".  Not bad but nothing about it made me want to go out of my way to watch it. 

I watched an episode of GoT and hated it.  Couldn't even finish it.

The only one of those shows I have watched and enjoyed was "Stranger Things" although I thought the first season was better and am not invested at all in whether or not there is a third.

 

As with anything else, MV.

Edited March 15, 2018 by enaiowen

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

I think the writing is pretty damn good.  Yes, there are gaps and some plotonium.  But I see a lot more nuance and layers week to week than most posters on this board.  If the voters for this award is a random fandom voting, then the winner is simply a populariy contest. But honestly, the presumption that this forum is indicative of how the rest of the fandom feels is IMO incorrect.

I don't think the writers are lazy.

I do think the writers care a great deal.

I find they make a big effort at continuity with B-L a noteable exception.

I think Dabb works a long game (perhaps too long).

I think Berens understand the characters very very well and knows what the fandom needs to see.  Things like the fight with the boys & Mary last season, and again 12.22 were examples of how much he understands.

I think the things that set people off are based on misaligned expectations and umbrage at perceived slights.  That's certainly well within people's rights to have those interpretations but not everyone feels that way. (Example: That Sam led the raid on the BMoL)

 

 SPN has had some terrific episodes and you can love Berens writing in 12.22 and we can argue that till the cows come home, but the comparison, which is what we are discussing since it's a competition here, is there is nothing in s12 that comes close to the writing of the shows I have bolded and italicized. "Regarding Dean" probably fares the best because of the subject matter being an allegory to dementia/Alzheimer's.

Is it better than Lucifer or Agents of Shield? Arguable, I can't say because I don't watch those shows. Is it better than GoT, This Is Us, Stranger Things?....Not really. 

Quote

The 2017 Best Of TV Awards winner in the category of Best Writing is - SUPERNATURAL

This years winner for Best Writing is Supernatural, giving them their 2nd consecutive award in this category & their 49th all time award in the BOTVAs. SPN won with 599 votes in their 4th consecutive finals appearance (1st, 4th, 4th).

Runner Up was Agents Of SHIELD with 193 votes.  This was AOS best result in their 3rd consecutive finals. (11th, 10th)
Third was Lucifer with 168 votes. This was their best finish, improving on their first finals appearance last year where they finished 4th.

Stranger Things was in 4th with109  votes. Last years runner up managed more votes than they got last year, but slipped from 2nd to 4th this year. Sherlock was 5th with 90 votes. Sherlock improved 1 spot on their previous best finish, in their only other finals appearance in this category in 2014 where they were 6th.

This Is Us was 6th with 66 votes in their first finals appearance. Game Of Thrones was 7th with 58 votes in their 4th consecutive finals appearance (5th, 11th, 8th). The Blacklist was 8th with 50 votes for their best finals result i their 4th consecutive appearance (9th, 9th, 10th) 13 Reasons Why was 9th with 37 votes in their first finals appearance. The Good Doctor was 10th with 30 votes in their 1st finals appearance.

1st - SUPERNATURAL 599
2nd - AGENTS OF SHIELD 193
3rd - LUCIFER 168
4th - Stranger Things 109
5th - Sherlock 90
6th - This Is Us 66
7th - Game Of Thrones 58
8th - The Blacklist 50
9th - 13 Reasons Why 37
10th - The Good Doctor 30

Supernaturals win over Agents Of SHIELD was the closest yet with a margin of 406 votes, narrowly beating out the 2015 win by Person of Interest over Castle of 407. Three shows entered the finals for the first time, This Is Us at 6th, 13 Reasons Why at 9th & The Good Doctor at 10th. The categories first ever winner, Arrow, did not make it to the finals, despite still being active.

[gonzosgirrl]

3 hours ago, SueB said:

I think the writing is pretty damn good.  Yes, there are gaps and some plotonium.  But I see a lot more nuance and layers week to week than most posters on this board.  If the voters for this award is a random fandom voting, then the winner is simply a populariy contest. But honestly, the presumption that this forum is indicative of how the rest of the fandom feels is IMO incorrect.

I don't think the writers are lazy.

I do think the writers care a great deal.

I find they make a big effort at continuity with B-L a noteable exception.

I think Dabb works a long game (perhaps too long).

I think Berens understand the characters very very well and knows what the fandom needs to see.  Things like the fight with the boys & Mary last season, and again 12.22 were examples of how much he understands.

I think the things that set people off are based on misaligned expectations and umbrage at perceived slights.  That's certainly well within people's rights to have those interpretations but not everyone feels that way. (Example: That Sam led the raid on the BMoL)

All valid POVs, even if I don't agree with most of them. But you bolded my comment in your response and then didn't address it. Sticking to that, can you honestly say that the 2017 episodes of Supernatural are the best written shows in television?

And what presumptions did I make? I stated my own opinion and questioned whether anyone could really call this the best writing on tv.

Edited March 15, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[SueB]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

All valid POVs, even if I don't agree with most of them. But you bolded my comment in your response and then didn't address it. Sticking to that, can you honestly say that the 2017 episodes of Supernatural are the best written shows in television?

And what presumptions did I make? I stated my own opinion and questioned whether anyone could really call this the best writing on tv.

 

The comment I bolded was your presumption. You presumed even the most die-hard fans wouldn't say SPN is the best written.  I disagree with that presumption. The connection I further made was I look at this board and see a LOT of complaints, which is consistent with your comments. My point was that just because this particular forum has a huge of amount of people who complain all the time doesn't mean the rest of the SPN Fandom feels that way.  And in fact, there may be people who think it's one of the best written shows on TV.

And I'm one of them.  So yes, I can honestly say that taken as a whole, the 2017 episodes of Supernatural were the best written.  I'd put "This is Us" second, "Sherlock" 3rd, and "GoT" 4th.  And here's why:
- This is Us: A little too maudlin, too much stretching out the mystery of Jack's death.  Some EXCELLENT writing, some EXCELLENT episodes.
- Sherlock: The 2017 episodes were my least favorite of all the series.  A little too over-wrought.  Still good, still complex, but I enjoyed SPN more.
- GoT: The visual effects are A+ but I was able to predict a lot of the plot.
The others I don't watch.

Now let's put the episodes aired in 2017 in order of most favorite (from a writing perspective) to least, top 13 only as the other series are 13 or less:

1. Stuck in the Middle With You - the Tarantino homage. I thought it was freakin' brilliant. Start to finish.
2. Who We Are - Dean's revelation was YEARS in the making and the payoff was fantastic
3. Regarding Dean - poignant, good character study of BOTH Sam and Dean with nice insights into Rowena
4. All Along the Watchtower - loved the introduction of an AU, felt Crowley's "end" was fitting for his 7-year character arc
5. The Raid - emotionally brutal fight scene, so many many layers
6. First Blood - excellent use of character backstory (the way they were raised)
7. The Bad Place - Kaia was exceptionally well written, the multi-verse concept they are playing in is cool
8. The Big Empty - The Empty=Entropy IMO, the brother's relationship, and Jack's earnestness
9. Advanced Thantology - Introducing a new Death, again the multiverse construct, the depth of Dean's dispair
10. Lost and Found - very raw emotionally, great intro for a new character
11. Twigs and Twine and Tasha Banes - liked the monster-universe expansion they did here with the stick people and the witches
12. The Future - TFW emotional crisis was compelling, the 'baby is good' twist
13. The Rising Son - Great Jack story, again the boys were written in a very raw way that felt organic and earned

 

Now I'd put "Memphis" from This is Us and "Number One" as equal to #2 & #5, respectively
The Sherlock epsiode down around #9
GoT I'd put "The Spoils of War" and "Beyond the Wall" as up #8 & 5, but the VFx really upped the rating versus the writing.

Edited March 15, 2018 by SueB

[DittyDotDot]

53 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Sticking to that, can you honestly say that the 2017 episodes of Supernatural are the best written shows in television?

I know you didn't ask me, but I say I don't think S12 was the best season of Supernatural, but I think the writing was actually quite good and nuanced compared to most shows out there these days. I think there were pacing issues and some production issues, but IMO the writing was pretty good for the most part. Of course there are some episodes I could've lived without, but that's true of every single show I've ever watched.

If you want me to compare it to shows of old, though, no, I wouldn't say Supernatural is the best written show ever on television. But these days, TV isn't really about the writing, IMO. It's about pushing boundaries, being shocking and seeing how many effects you can cram into one itty bitty episode. So, yeah, I find Supernatural exceeds most shows because they still to put care and feeding into the writing, IMO.

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Is it better than Lucifer or Agents of Shield? Arguable, I can't say because I don't watch those shows. Is it better than GoT, This Is Us, Stranger Things?....Not really. 

Personally, I find that GoT is sorely overrated. I do enjoy the show, but not for the writing. I love the production design and how great the show looks--and I enjoy a couple of the actors immensely. But, I'd say Supernatural's writing is actually far more nuanced and layered--even now in it's 13th season--than Game of Thrones ever has been.

This is Us, I only watched about half of the first season but thought the writing was terrible. The acting is superb, but I couldn't take the maudlin writing or that I felt like I'd seen this show on TV at least two or three times before.  

Stranger Things? I watched the first season and liked a lot about it--mostly the kids they cast and the nostalgia--but, again, I think the writing kinda sucked. It meandered all over the place and piddled out into nothing by the end. I still haven't worked up the interest to watch the second season.

Going further than what you bolded:

• The writing for Sherlock is terrible, IMO. I enjoyed the first series enough, but by the fourth I just found the plotting lazy and annoying and the acting isn't all that great either, IMO.
• Agents of Shield: I only watched one season and found it to be typical superhero TV. There was nothing really wrong with it, but I think SPN blows them out of the water in the writing department.
• Lucifer, never watched; never felt compelled to.
• The Blacklist: watched quite a bit of the first season, but it just wasn't for me. I'd didn't think there was anything particularly interesting about their writing, though. I'd take Supernatural at it's worst any day of the week.
• The Good Doctor? I watched the first season and I think the writing is actually quite good for this show, but I haven't been compelled to go back for some reason. Have no idea why. Probably just got really busy and if something isn't in my face when I have time to watch, then I'll probably watch something else that is. But, I'd put the writing for it on par with Supernatural even though it's kinda like Game of Thrones and like trying to compare apples and oranges.

So, yeah, I would say that Supernatural's writing stacks up against most shows out there and I can see why it was first on this particular list. A differently list, though, and I might have a different opinion. 

But I do agree with @SueB, this board is by no means a representation of fandom as a whole. There are plenty of people who are happy with the show and just happen to visit a different site--or are happy to just watch the show and only read other people's opinions rather than comment themselves. And, in my experience, the unhappy have far more to say than the happy.

[Casseiopeia]

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

this board is by no means a representation of fandom as a whole

I agree most online fansites do not represent the fandom as a whole.  Having said that  I think most fans who have been unhappy with the show especially in S12 had gotten used to superior writing and production in the previous 11 years, even if it has been uneven at times.  As Supernatural has lost many of it's better writers, producers (Todd Aronauer) and editors (Nicole Baer) the quality isn't what we had gotten used to.  That doesn't necessarily mean SPN doesn't deserve the win for best writing in 2017 compared to other shows it's just that compared to past seasons S12 just didn't seem to stack up.  Especially when the editing (especially for me), directing (not all eps but the majority) and the pacing weren't what we had come to expect from the show as well.   At least in my opinion.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Casseiopeia

[Wayward Son]

Personally, I think the writing for season 12 was better than the writing for seasons 8, 9 and possibly 10. During those seasons everything was pretty heavy handed lacking in nuance and frankly most of the characters were pretty hard to like during that period. IMO the writing of S12 is nowhere near the show in its peak (S1-5), but it definitely wasn’t the worst we’ve had either. 

[gonzosgirrl]

7 hours ago, SueB said:

The comment I bolded was your presumption. You presumed even the most die-hard fans wouldn't say SPN is the best written.  I disagree with that presumption. The connection I further made was I look at this board and see a LOT of complaints, which is consistent with your comments. My point was that just because this particular forum has a huge of amount of people who complain all the time doesn't mean the rest of the SPN Fandom feels that way.  And in fact, there may be people who think it's one of the best written shows on TV.

And I'm one of them.  So yes, I can honestly say that taken as a whole, the 2017 episodes of Supernatural were the best written.  I'd put "This is Us" second, "Sherlock" 3rd, and "GoT" 4th.  And here's why:
- This is Us: A little too maudlin, too much stretching out the mystery of Jack's death.  Some EXCELLENT writing, some EXCELLENT episodes.
- Sherlock: The 2017 episodes were my least favorite of all the series.  A little too over-wrought.  Still good, still complex, but I enjoyed SPN more.
- GoT: The visual effects are A+ but I was able to predict a lot of the plot.
The others I don't watch.

Now let's put the episodes aired in 2017 in order of most favorite (from a writing perspective) to least, top 13 only as the other series are 13 or less:

1. Stuck in the Middle With You - the Tarantino homage. I thought it was freakin' brilliant. Start to finish.
2. Who We Are - Dean's revelation was YEARS in the making and the payoff was fantastic
3. Regarding Dean - poignant, good character study of BOTH Sam and Dean with nice insights into Rowena
4. All Along the Watchtower - loved the introduction of an AU, felt Crowley's "end" was fitting for his 7-year character arc
5. The Raid - emotionally brutal fight scene, so many many layers
6. First Blood - excellent use of character backstory (the way they were raised)
7. The Bad Place - Kaia was exceptionally well written, the multi-verse concept they are playing in is cool
8. The Big Empty - The Empty=Entropy IMO, the brother's relationship, and Jack's earnestness
9. Advanced Thantology - Introducing a new Death, again the multiverse construct, the depth of Dean's dispair
10. Lost and Found - very raw emotionally, great intro for a new character
11. Twigs and Twine and Tasha Banes - liked the monster-universe expansion they did here with the stick people and the witches
12. The Future - TFW emotional crisis was compelling, the 'baby is good' twist
13. The Rising Son - Great Jack story, again the boys were written in a very raw way that felt organic and earned

 

Now I'd put "Memphis" from This is Us and "Number One" as equal to #2 & #5, respectively
The Sherlock epsiode down around #9
GoT I'd put "The Spoils of War" and "Beyond the Wall" as up #8 & 5, but the VFx really upped the rating versus the writing.

Okay, thanks. This explains a lot. 

[Jeddah]

I don’t watch a lot of those shows, except for This Is Us. I’d definitely vote Supernatural over This Is Us when it comes to writing. I think This Is Us relies on its interesting premise and twists instead of good writing. This season I don’t think their writers even took five minutes to Google anything about the foster care system before making it a major part of the show. I think the writing for Sam and Dean’s interactions is more natural than the Pearson kids’ interactions.

[catrox14]

This one bugs me, too. Dick and Davy Perez essentially copied Reservoir Dogs. Not sure why that garners best direction  I got what they were doing so I don't need a lecture on what that style is. or was doing.  IMO, it works in a feature length film. Not in a 42 minute commercial filled TV episode. Of the SPN episodes in s12, I would have given best direction to Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets, Asa Fox, Regarding Dean, or Twigs and Twine and Tasha Banes.  All Along the Watchtower had major pacing issues so I won't include that one either.

The Spoils of War was an incredible cinematic quality episode of TV. That episode should have won for Best Directing IMO.

Interesting to me, that a fan site campaign did this. I'm really curious which fan site it is.

Quote

The 2017 Best Of TV Awards winner in the category of Best Director is - RICHARD SPEIGHT JR. "STUCK IN THE MIDDLE WITH YOU' (SUPERNATURAL)

This years winner for Best Director is Richard Speight Jr, giving the show Supernatural their 51st award all time in the BOTVAs, their 4th award in this category, from 3 different directors. Speight Jr won with 745 votes. A couple fan site campaigns to encourage voting for the director, and sometimes recurring actor on the show propelled him to a 65% share of the votes. This was Richards 2nd gig as a director on the series. Since then, they have had him back 3 more times, including this very weeks episode they are filming right now.

Runner Up was Sherwin Shilati "God Johnson" (Lucifer) with 83 votes.
Third was Robert Singer "All Along The Watchtower" (Supernatural) with 58 votes.

James Bamford "Fallout" (Arrow) was in 4th with 56 votes. Tom Cavanagh "Elongated  Journey Into Night" was 5th with 49 votes.

Lucy Liu "Moving Target" (Elementary) was 6th with 45 votes. Glen Ficarra & John Requa "Memphis" (This Is Us) was 7th with 36 votes. Jeremy Podeswa "The Dragon And The Wolf" (Game Of Thrones) was 8th with 33 votes. Larry Teng "Point Three Percent" (The Good Doctor) was 9th with 28 votes. Matt Shakman "The Spoils Of War" (Game Of Thrones) was 10th with 21 votes.

1st - RICHARD SPEIGHT JR. "STUCK IN THE MIDDLE WITH YOU" (SUPERNATURAL) 745
2nd - SHERWIN SHILATI "GOD JOHNSON" (LUCIFER) 83
3rd - ROBERT SINGER "ALL ALONG THE WATCHTOWER" (SUPERNATURAL) 58
4th - James Bamford "Fallout" (Arrow) 56
5th - Tom Cavanagh "Elongated Journey Into Night" (The Flash) 49
6th - Lucy Liu "Moving Target" (Elementary) 45
7th - Glen Ficarra & John Requa "Memphis" (This Is Us) 36
8th - Jeremy Podeswa "The Dragon And The Wolf" (Game Of Thrones) 33
9th - Larry Teng "Point Three Percent" (The Good Doctor) 28
10th - Matt Shakman "The Spoils Of War" (Game Of Thrones) 21

With this win, Speight Jr. becomes the 2nd on screen person from Supernatural in this category to win the award. Elementary, This Is Us & The Good Doctor had their first director finalists. All 11 finalists are first time finalists. This is the first time in the awards history since the first year this has happened.

 

[Pondlass1]

I haven't been following this voting - is it a Canadian thing?  But they're going to have to widen all the doorways so Rich can get his head though now.. LOL

In terms of writing - I honestly cannot get into most other shows on these lists. This is Us is sappy and not my cup of tea I'm afraid. And try as I might to love Lucifer (big fan of Tom's) it's just becoming more silly and boring.

All I know is that I'm not much of a TV network series fan - but Supernatural captured me for some reason and has never let go.  So there has to be something. I'm definitely not the rabid fan type.  We have to remember that a writer writes a story and then it's changed and chopped about a dozen times which is probably why things seem WTF sometimes.  It all has to fit in 42 minutes.  TV is really one long commercial interrupted by Shows after all.

Anyway congratulations to  winners - but Baby was robbed!!

[catrox14]

25 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

I haven't been following this voting - is it a Canadian thing?  But they're going to have to widen all the doorways so Rich can get his head though now.. LOL

No, it's international. I voted and I'm in the US

[DittyDotDot]

27 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

This one bugs me, too. Dick and Davy Perez essentially copied Reservoir Dogs. Not sure why that garners best direction  I got what they were doing so I don't need a lecture on what that style is. or was doing.  IMO, it works in a feature length film. Not in a 42 minute commercial filled TV episode. Of the SPN episodes in s12, I would have given best direction to Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets, Asa Fox, Regarding Dean, or Twigs and Twine and Tasha Banes.  All Along the Watchtower had major pacing issues so I won't include that one either.

I'm not sure I'd say it was best direction of the season simply because I don't care for that style, myself, but I can see why it was nominated. Spleight was given a script that required he adapt certain Tarantino techniques and he did his homework and used those techniques well. The direction may not have been completely original, but I would say it was creative and, most of all, it's memorable simply because it is was something different than the other 22 episodes of the season. 

I would've picked the Goat Dude episode for best direction, myself. There was something striking about the look of the episode and I think Phil Scriggia did a great job of capturing the feeling of a dying small town in middle America. But, then again, it's a visual style I happen to be drawn to. No gimmicks and fancy visual effects, just simple camera work. 

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Pondlass1 said:

I haven't been following this voting - is it a Canadian thing?  But they're going to have to widen all the doorways so Rich can get his head though now.. LOL

In terms of writing - I honestly cannot get into most other shows on these lists. This is Us is sappy and not my cup of tea I'm afraid. And try as I might to love Lucifer (big fan of Tom's) it's just becoming more silly and boring.

All I know is that I'm not much of a TV network series fan - but Supernatural captured me for some reason and has never let go.  So there has to be something. I'm definitely not the rabid fan type.  We have to remember that a writer writes a story and then it's changed and chopped about a dozen times which is probably why things seem WTF sometimes.  It all has to fit in 42 minutes.  TV is really one long commercial interrupted by Shows after all.

Anyway congratulations to  winners - but Baby was robbed!!

These 'awards' are from CanadaGraphs - professional autograph hounds/sellers. The total votes seem to hover around a thousand or so, so getting a swelled head over 'winning' might be a tad OTT, lol. They are basically an easy way to increase traffic on their website.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

Spleight was given a script that required he adapt certain Tarantino techniques and he did his homework and used those techniques well

The style was written into the script. He saw Davy's vision to fruition. He wasn 't doing something unique outside of the script.

Quote

Acting alumnus and Supernatural convention circuit staple Richard Speight Jr. returned to direct — his second time in the chair, after season 11’s “Just My Imagination” — but the concept and content was created by Davy Perez, one of the Supenatural writers’ room new hires for season 12. Perez, who serves as a staff writer and story editor, is a veteran of anthology and auteur television —

https://www.hypable.com/supernatural-davy-perez-tarantino-interview/

Here is the article.

That whole article is interesting. I'm taking it to the writers thread

[SueB]

17 hours ago, catrox14 said:

This one bugs me, too. Dick and Davy Perez essentially copied Reservoir Dogs. Not sure why that garners best direction  I got what they were doing so I don't need a lecture on what that style is. or was doing.  IMO, it works in a feature length film. Not in a 42 minute commercial filled TV episode. Of the SPN episodes in s12, I would have given best direction to Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets, Asa Fox, Regarding Dean, or Twigs and Twine and Tasha Banes.  All Along the Watchtower had major pacing issues so I won't include that one either.

The Spoils of War was an incredible cinematic quality episode of TV. That episode should have won for Best Directing IMO.

Interesting to me, that a fan site campaign did this. I'm really curious which fan site it is.

 

One person's "copied" is another's homage.  I was just so WELL done, IMO.  The scenes & POV's chosen, the framing, the music, the inside jokes (e.g. "Mr. Crowley"). It's definitely on my top 10 all time.  

I look at this image and see art:

 

ETA: Apologies to Wayward Son.... it's about the Directing, not about Cas getting stabbed.... sorry for the evil flashback.

Edited March 16, 2018 by SueB

[catrox14]

Just now, SueB said:

One person's "copied" is another's homage.  I was just so WELL done, IMO.  The scenes & POV's chosen, the framing, the music, the inside jokes (e.g. "Mr. Crowley"). It's definitely on my top 10 all time.  

 An homage to me is not a direct lift, but that's just me.  Like Monster Movie was an homage to old time horror films. Even A Most Holy Man was an homage to film noir. That's homage to me. But hey we all have different opinions.

[gonzosgirrl]

Did we know that Dean won Favourite Character? Castiel came second, Sam, fourth.