S12.E24: Neverland

[luna70]

Have ratings really dropped for NCIS? It is probably more of a 'shift'. While CBS's other show-'The Big Bang Theory' OFTEN comes in #1 in the precious 18-49 viewer category (Precious, because this large age group are the BUYERS according to 'Madison Ave.'-aka -The Advertisers who buy commercial spots on TV shows, who 'pay' the networks.).  While NCIS does come in the top 10 in THIS category, and at times, does come in #1 OVERALL at lot of the times, NIELSEN (and who ever else figures the ratings) says that we 'oldsters' are the ones who put NCIS in that 'top' spot. We, oldsters, (anyone older then 49) does not count, or as much, to Madison Ave, because, we do not 'buy'. Our buying power is diminished, and/or, we have become 'mature' and do not buy on 'WHIMS' like many younger persons do! So, while I have not checked it out, the cost per $ per commercial on NCIS, compared to TBBT is probably less, or it will be less, going down, as time progresses. Which means, that the show will not give into actors demanding high raises, demands!

 

BUT. this show has been on for 12 seasons! Being in the top spot a number of times during the season is great! Being in the top 10 for viewers 18-49-again, great! BUT, I figure, the network idiots are probably there saying 'We have to change things up to keep these viewer #s" -When, what they NEED is FRESH writers and fresh stories.. instead of having the same lame stories that have NOTHING to do with the NAVY!

[luna70]

Which, I is why I did not like 'Neverland'.

 

Like, I missed it, but where was 'Dornie' all these years? I did not know that NCIS had this elite 'cyber' unit! (thought that belonged to the FBI, CIA, etc.. ). THEN.. all that garbage with his mother saying/knowing these agents! 'Dornie' worked with them (if we go by episodes) like 4 times! And, I believe, he was down, working in evidence lockup for one or two of them! (He worked with McGee, and DiNozzo, right?). To have written in-He looked up to Gibbs like a father, when in fact, he was afraid of GIBBS, on the few episodes, trying to impress him, but screwing up, total garbage! I could buy, though, that we did not know he had computer skills since often, at a work place, you are not put where you can best be used!

 

But, this 'script'? NCIS LA had a 'lost boy' group of episodes. They though, dealt with where 'lost boys' actually are-the Sudan region. This episode? Seems like a poor cousin of a script! Like how are they going to explain LUKE shooting Gibbs? Yes, I noticed that Luke shot Gibbs first in the shin, then BELOW the heart-leaving a good chance for Gibbs to survive..(why don't they EVER wear bullet proof vests on NCIS OR NCIS LA? Yes, you can get a bullet to the head, but.. why no chest vest?). That Luke was going to be killed if he did not shot Gibbs?  That this blond English 'kid' just moves into an IRAQ town W/O a problem?

 

Finally.. tired of Mike Franks showing up as, what? Gibb's conscious? Why not just make him a ghost? Then it can be NCIS ghost whisperer... At least that way, instead of just being haunted, GIBBS can find out what is going to happen, where the BAD guys are, who they are, etc.. This way, no more of Gibb's probies will have to die! Not that any of these agents were probies anymore other then that stupid nickname that Gibbs and Franks had together and it certainly did not pertain to 'Dornie'!

 

Maybe, once Gibbs survives the shooting, he will have a 'breakdown', feeling responsible for every agent being shot? Strange though, never feels guilty beyond the episode for civilians, but, agents, since I guess, he has no family, the 'agents are family, children', he feels guilty.. which, if he were a real agent, he would not have survived all those years as an agent, since, one would have to go into the job with the understanding that you might be killed in the line of duty. BUT, NCIS, will not survive with GIBBS gone. DiNozzo is the comedy relief, he cannot be the head agent. McGee, Bishop are just p-t. players, neither is strong enough and Vance was never developed enough to be full time

[Julia]

It's also the top rated show in the world internationally, and CBS owns it, so even if it didn't anchor one of their biggest nights (at least until 10 PM) I suspect they'd let it limp along with just OK numbers in the target demographic. Which is, parenthetically, not the only audience advertisers pay for. It's just the one they pay a premium for.

[Driad]

A smaller point -- why doesn't McGee's phone have caller ID? He picked up the phone, said his name and title, listened to the caller for a moment, and only then found out that the caller was Gibbs. Surely those wasted seconds could sometimes make a difference.

[QASteph]

So many things to pick on this episode for. 

1. From the first second Mike Franks showed up it was clear that Gibbs was the team member who would be in danger.  There was a ridiculous amount of foreshadowing that took any teeny bit of potential shock value out of the ending.  By the time Gibbs got shot all I was thinking was "finally."

2. (Last eppy) Now all of a sudden McGee, who apparently regularly hacks into the Pentagon or whatever, needs Dornaget to handle computer stuff?  And he defers to Ned w/o blinking?  Sure, whatever, they needed some way to bring Dornie back so they could kill him off, but that was just a really stupid way to do it.  I'm still annoyed.  

3. The set up at the market was COMPLETELY obvious.  About two seconds in I was all "Oh, it's a trap."  And yet Gibbs and DiNozzo, who were both apparently hit with the stupid stick on the way there, just blithely continue walking through the street.  Even after the weird conversation with the preternaturally composed teenaged girl Gibbs is just standing there, waiting around.  If that is the kind of instincts and investigative prowess he plans to bring to the table, perhaps it is better if that was the end for the character.

4. I do not believe for one hot minute that they actually killed off Gibbs.  Puhlease.

5. What was with the secrecy around the video of who killed Luke's parents?  In the ep they said it was Sadiq.  (I'm pretty sure that was actually said in so many words but I was a little bored and my roommate sometimes talks during the show so I could be wrong about that.)  But the way Abby was reacting I expected it to be much more shocking.

[Betweenthisandthat]

Gibbs has such a blindness when it comes to children.  They are his Achilles heel that I'm not surprised that he wouldn't suspect them of criminal behavior.  He bonded with that little girl earlier this season who we later found out killed her mom.  I don't know if he ever suspected it when he was getting close to her.  

 

Every kid he looks at is the daughter he lost.  He talked about her in the last episode when he was with Luke. I even thought he might try to adopt him so I was shocked with it was Luke who shot him even though the first time we see him he had a gun in his hands pointed at Gibbs, Tony, and Ellie.

 

Tony asked Gibbs if the boy who died in the bus explosion killed the female victim who died, and Gibbs tells him he's interested in the person who is leading these kids.  Gibbs' focus goes on the adults responsible, not the children.  He can't see them as capable of that kind of crime.  He tries to be a parent to every child in trouble, and now he's shot by one.  Something like that can change your worldview for better or worse.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Betweenthisandthat

[stinkogingko]

What dreck. Glasberg shouldn't be allowed to write for anything above a cartoon.

There's the bones of a good story there. But just so much ridiculousness and leftovers. Dornegett just happens to have a super badass CIA agent mom (so why does Dorney have to pretend to be Gibbs to be cool? Mom not enough of a role model?) who just happens to know how to find super bad guy and the ability to torture the info out of him with her bare hands. (Was this supposed to be Ziva's comeback?)

And yet somehow this is All About Gibbs. Again. Yes, Dorney's mom might have lost a son but Gibbs lost an agent! There's a story to be told about how Gibbs is slipping. About how he's a human black hole. But Mike Franks showing up is never a good sign. It'll be how tortured Gibbs is, and how hard he tries, and how every decision he's made has turned out to be the bestest bravest decision ever, but who is around to save the bravest of them all from the consequences of being the bravest of them all? Just Ghost Mike Franks! The team might get one episode to solve the mystery without Gibbs, but that's it. Because Gibbs is a lousy mentor and manager whose subordinates are never allowed to grow up. The Peter Pan thing is strangely apt but not in the way Glasberg intended.

This was a set up for a rerun of Life Before His Eyes, which was lousy the first time around. I wish I didn't like the rest of the cast so much.

Edited May 15, 2015 by stinkogingko

[BitterApple]

Luna70, you'd think that in IRAQ of all places the agents would be wearing vests. Two white guys walking around conspicuously in an outdoor market? Nooooo, that's not going to draw any attention at all *sarcasm*.

[paulusar]

The shows sucks since Ziva left. She was the best part and was underpaid.

[jaytee1812]

The shows sucks since Ziva left. She was the best part and was underpaid.

Lol no. Ziva was a dreadful character who swung between being a bitch who could do nothing but fight, and a little girl with severe daddy issues. The show and every major character is better for her absence.

Edited May 15, 2015 by jaytee1812

[Jellybeans]

I want Ziva back.

[jennifer6973]

I don't, I like that Bishop respects Tony.  and knows she's the probie and junior agent.

[Julia]

I'm guessing this discussion has gone well in the past ;)

I actually would enjoy seeing Ziva and Bishop interact, although I question whether their writing of women is good enough to pull that off.

[BitterApple]

I think the producers went above and beyond to make Bishop a sort of anti-Ziva in order to distinguish the two characters. However for me, she's just not convincing as a law enforcement agent. I liked Kate the best out of all three female leads, followed by Ziva and Bishop is just someone I have to tolerate in order to watch the show.

[Ohmo]

I think the producers went above and beyond to make Bishop a sort of anti-Ziva in order to distinguish the two characters. However for me, she's just not convincing as a law enforcement agent. I liked Kate the best out of all three female leads, followed by Ziva and Bishop is just someone I have to tolerate in order to watch the show.

 

I see Bishop as a female McGee, but at a different point in her life than Tim was. We've had the newbie male perspective, and now we're getting the newbie female perspective, with the added difference that Ellie is married to Jake and has been for awhile.  Tim is still single, even now.  I know he's in a serious relationship, but he and Delilah haven't yet made the decision to marry.  Ellie and Jake have.

 

As to a reappearance for Ziva?  No thank you.

[sinkwriter]

 

For me, the most interesting revelation about Luke shooting Gibbs is that I think it showed that Luke killed his parents.  It explains why we never saw the nannycam footage and only heard audio.

 

I wondered if that were the case as well, since they didn't show it. But in listening to the audio, I remember thinking it seemed too vague, like the parents didn't exactly know the person? 

 

On a funny note, I attended a luncheon today, and ended up sitting next to a woman starting her own business who - through a random conversation we started having - explained that she used to be an agent with the real NCIS (but eventually decided to "retire" when she had kids and started to feel like it was too dangerous to risk not being able to come home to her kids). Everyone else at the table kind of looked at her blankly when she said NCIS, which seemed so bizarre to me because even if you don't watch the show, surely you've heard its name by this point! But I said immediately, "From NCIS agent to cruise and vacation planning... I love that odd transition. Awesome." Anyway, we had a fascinating conversation. What are the odds of meeting a special agent? (Or should I have called her "very special agent"? LOL.) What a kick.

[Katenotplus8]

I'm feeling very frustrated with this season in general, but this episode was ridiculous.  Is anyone else really fed up with the writers not being true to their characters?  No way would Gibbs have stared at a kid while he got shot. Tony would never have let the kid shoot Gibbs twice.  I'm not buying it.  I normally look forward to each new episode and will often come home from working my 12 hour shift and watch before going to bed.  It seems this season, I was lucky if I was motivated to watch it before the next episode aired.  When Bishop first started, I didn't mind her and actually started liking her.  I liked her until she started acting like a shrew to Jake.  You know your husband can't share his secrets with you, and you shouldn't ask him. I still think she's a fairly good fit with the team and appreciate that they've made her completely different from Ziva.  I miss Ziva, but I didn't care for how they wrote her character and wasted Cote's talent, and for that matter, the chemistry between her and Michael, but I digress.  Writers, get your crap in gear and give us consistent good writing that's true to the heart of the characters we love or season 13 may be the end for me.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I'm feeling very frustrated with this season in general, but this episode was ridiculous. Is anyone else really fed up with the writers not being true to their characters? No way would Gibbs have stared at a kid while he got shot. Tony would never have let the kid shoot Gibbs twice. I'm not buying it. I normally look forward to each new episode and will often come home from working my 12 hour shift and watch before going to bed. It seems this season, I was lucky if I was motivated to watch it before the next episode aired. When Bishop first started, I didn't mind her and actually started liking her. I liked her until she started acting like a shrew to Jake. You know your husband can't share his secrets with you, and you shouldn't ask him. I still think she's a fairly good fit with the team and appreciate that they've made her completely different from Ziva. I miss Ziva, but I didn't care for how they wrote her character and wasted Cote's talent, and for that matter, the chemistry between her and Michael, but I digress. Writers, get your crap in gear and give us consistent good writing that's true to the heart of the characters we love or season 13 may be the end for me.

I agree with this post 1000% EXCEPT for the liking Ziva. Nothing against Cote, but I loathed the character from day one. But there were moments I liked her actions-like the way she said Shalom in the season 3 episode of that kid who was holding his classmates hostage because he was being threatened to. It was also a very good Tony episode.

[Betweenthisandthat]

I actually liked this season better than the last one and better than a few of the ones before it.  Not sure why but the characters feel more mature now, less childish and unable to cope with life in general, less mean to each other overall.  I'm a big Tony fan so there are seasons that have truly missed the mark on who he was a character and were truly painful to watch and season 12 wasn't one of them for me.  

 

Earlier seasons had better arc overall but after season 4 I didn't care for how they wrote the characters, and now it might be reverse.

 

What I don't mind about this episode is that it shows Gibbs' flaws.  For so long he has been omniscient and he's been so blind in this case and so wrong.  Maybe that's uncharacteristic, but I am tired of Gibbs who knows and sees all and a break from that works for me.

 

I liked Ziva but she annoyed me more often than not.  I still miss something about her though, but not all the baggage the writers gave her season after season.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Betweenthisandthat

[itsmeyousee]

 

What I don't mind about this episode is that it shows Gibbs' flaws.  For so long he has been omniscient and he's been so blind in this case and so wrong.  Maybe that's uncharacteristic, but I am tired of Gibbs who knows and sees all and a break from that works for me.

 

 

Gibbs has a major flaw, kids. And it's been that way right from the beginning. I think he would rather let himself die than kill a child. He knew he was being played, not only did the CIA Mum tell him but so did Ghost Mike. And Gibbs was listening to everything else Ghost Mike said, no reason to think he didn't hear that.

 

I'm more worried about the team, if Gibbs survives and Tony had to kill the kid ? I don't think Gibbs will ever forgive him. Gibbs would be all martyr guy with " you should have let him kill me" stuff. I'm worried it's going to be like when Gibbs got blown up. With Abs and McGee worshipping on the Gibbs alter and Tony is crap at his job stuff. Hopefully they don't make Bishop worship there as well..

 

As for Ziva , she was ok to me , sometimes completely annoying but they all can be until Season 6. The whole she was a spy from the start and all she had to do was cry and call Gibbs her dad and everything was ok, worse storyline ever. Then after that it seemed to become the Gibbs and Ziva show with everyone else just having an ep now and then but the Team aspect was lost to me.

[kassygreene]

...

 

Earlier seasons had better arc overall but after season 4 I didn't care for how they wrote the characters, and now it might be reverse.

 

What I don't mind about this episode is that it shows Gibbs' flaws.  For so long he has been omniscient and he's been so blind in this case and so wrong.  Maybe that's uncharacteristic, but I am tired of Gibbs who knows and sees all and a break from that works for me.

 

I liked Ziva but she annoyed me more often than not.  I still miss something about her though, but not all the baggage the writers gave her season after season.

I've been watching Mayday! Air Crash Investigations (bless YouTube), and a frequent cause of the crashes highlighted in that show is the failure of the pilot to pay attention to what his subordinate crew is trying to tell him.  The Captain Is God In The Cockpit.  A classic example is the Tenerife disaster in 1977 (KLM Flight 4805 & Pan Am 1736).  What addresses this is Crew Resource Management, which is credited by the pilots involved as the principal reason the Sioux City crash in 1989 (United Flight 232) was not 100% fatal.  

 

Anyway, this episode was an example of how Gibbs refused to be told what was obvious to everyone around him, including the ghost of Mike Franks (who Gibbs does know isn't a ghost and instead is a manifestation of his gut telling him something he doesn't want to hear).  His team has given up telling him these things.  Vance has given up (and his history doesn't let him get away with it anyway).  His blindness let Luke see everything, and I think this is even worse the Abby letting that blasted computer virus loose after putting up a plastic sheeting "firewall".

 

After all these years, it is really annoying that this character hasn't learned that about himself.  I'm supposing that they needed a cliffhanger.  I'm hoping but not optimistic that Gibbs will have some growth, perhaps even a lengthy arc about something "real" - dealing with a challenge to deeply felt beliefs (nope, that won't happen, probably a half to full season arc on that bleached blond smirking Budd boy).  Wouldn't mind seeing more Mimi Rogers (and I don't usually like the parts she plays, this surprises me) - so much better then Jamie Lee Curtis's character (and I do like JLC).

 

As for the child converts, I agree the real lost boys are a better story.  However, we appear to be swinging around to a new generation of disaffected youth, and I have an empathy for baby boomers that I never thought I'd have (technically I iz one, but I don't wanna be).  That girl in the market, with her dead eyes and absent affect, reminds me of all those dropouts who fell for the charismatics in the late 60s.  I haven't started watching Aquarius yet, but damned if she didn't seem like a Manson family member (dudes were scary).

 

Show has storyline potential for season 13.  Will Show be able to capitalize on it?  Still watching, and let's be honest, this show has a much better longevity than JAG ever did.  C U in September.

[betsyboo]

For me, the most interesting revelation about Luke shooting Gibbs is that I think it showed that Luke killed his parents.  It explains why we never saw the nannycam footage and only heard audio.

 

That's what I thought, too!! Abby's reax and Gibbs' eyes watching the video.

No way Gibbs is dead (wishful thinking???)

 

That said, whatever the (non fatal, hopefully) physical damage is, my greater  concern is about the mental damage to Gibbs' already damaged mental state.

I mean, he was shot by a kid that he befriended, and one that he attempted to work his "Gibbs' magic way with kids" on.

IIRC, prior to this, Gibbs was always able to "get through to kids. After this, what will he feel?

The disillusionment?? The feeling of psychological mortality? 

As someone else pointed out, too, Gibbs already took a blow earlier this season with the teenage girl sociopath. He was so astonished by that. Now this - his judgment is skewed for sure. What does Gibbs second-guessing himself look like? (in public - not on a Mexican beach or in his house talking to dead people.)

 

So many things to pick on this episode for. 

1. From the first second Mike Franks showed up it was clear that Gibbs was the team member who would be in danger.  There was a ridiculous amount of foreshadowing that took any teeny bit of potential shock value out of the ending.  By the time Gibbs got shot all I was thinking was "finally."

2. (Last eppy) Now all of a sudden McGee, who apparently regularly hacks into the Pentagon or whatever, needs Dornaget to handle computer stuff?  And he defers to Ned w/o blinking?  Sure, whatever, they needed some way to bring Dornie back so they could kill him off, but that was just a really stupid way to do it.  I'm still annoyed.  

3. The set up at the market was COMPLETELY obvious.  About two seconds in I was all "Oh, it's a trap."  And yet Gibbs and DiNozzo, who were both apparently hit with the stupid stick on the way there, just blithely continue walking through the street.  Even after the weird conversation with the preternaturally composed teenaged girl Gibbs is just standing there, waiting around.  If that is the kind of instincts and investigative prowess he plans to bring to the table, perhaps it is better if that was the end for the character.

4. I do not believe for one hot minute that they actually killed off Gibbs.  Puhlease.

5. What was with the secrecy around the video of who killed Luke's parents?  In the ep they said it was Sadiq.  (I'm pretty sure that was actually said in so many words but I was a little bored and my roommate sometimes talks during the show so I could be wrong about that.)  But the way Abby was reacting I expected it to be much more shocking.

5. again, so confused. The ep *did say it was Sadiq. But you're correct on Abby implying it was worse.

 

I will never not laugh at "hit with the stupid stick."

 

Mimi Rogers' right eye bugged me the whole ep. I couldn't decide if her eye is naturally that squinty when she emoted, or if she was *trying to look scary/badass.

 

Point of clarification please - so last ep they are all at the airport meeting the casket, but SpyMommy didn't get introduced to any of them then???? So she had to come to the office and introduce herself?

 

Where was Leslie Hope? NCIS loses an agent in a terrorist attack and SecNav doesn't meet the plane? (Is that completely unrealistic of me? I guess she can't be going to the airport every day, but then again, maybe she *should be. In any event this was such a highly visible murder, coupled with the Spy Mommy angle, and I am surprised she wasn't there.)

 

Completely random - I noticed this while re-watching the Harper Dearing eps and again in the finale - Tony sure does like a nice Lands' End windbreaker. Who doesn't love a preppy plaid lining in their Harrington jacket?! <tee>

 

A little Elf Lord trash talk always lightens the mood. :-)

[Ceindreadh]

Finally got to watch this episode and all I can say is that I really wish they'd do a crossover with Supernatural...so that they could burn and salt Mike Frank's bones and stop his bloody ghost showing up every five minutes. 

I was seriously tempted to just stop watching when I saw the guest star credits.  Next time I won't waste another 40 odd minutes of my life on it.

[sinkwriter]

 

Finally got to watch this episode and all I can say is that I really wish they'd do a crossover with Supernatural...so that they could burn and salt Mike Frank's bones and stop his bloody ghost showing up every five minutes.

 

HAHAHHAHAAAA!  I second that emotion.