Hawkgirl: Hasn't She Been Here Before?

[ottoDbusdriver]

It's definitely worse.  He remembers everything -- she remembers nothing.  And the "acting" -- when she said he was dead, I couldn't tell the difference.  Hopefully, they'll keep the next HM off long enough for her to come into her own, because what you people are describing is a hella lot more fun than what we're getting.

 

Nobody every really dies in time-traveling shows.  Here's the thing -- shouldn't there already be a Carter already existing in the 70s ?  They could always grab him and add him to the crew.  Paradoxes be damned.

 

So Hawkgirl's bad acting will be for nought since Carter will probably be back.

Edited January 30, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver

[tarotx]

I don't think the team can do much with the past Hawkmen because they could really disrupt the timeline if they do. And with Kendra out of the timeline will there even be more reincarnations? Though I guess she will eventually return to 2016 or so. I think the team will eventually have to kill Savage in Rip's time. That's how I would play it. Rip's family has to die so the mission can be started. 

[Latverian Diplomat]

It's definitely worse.  He remembers everything -- she remembers nothing.  And the "acting" -- when she said he was dead, I couldn't tell the difference.  Hopefully, they'll keep the next HM off long enough for her to come into her own, because what you people are describing is a hella lot more fun than what we're getting.

As I understand it, they reincarnate in pairs, so this Shayera should be Hawkman-less for the rest of this life.

 

Also I don't know whether killing Vandal Savage would end the cycle (in the comics, Vandal Savage isn't part of it). The prospect of Hawkman staying dead forever might be a complication they introduce later to make her hesitate?

 

And that doesn't preclude the Legends team enountering past incarnations of either or both of them in the past. In fact, I expect that to happen at least once.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Latverian Diplomat

[CabotCove]

Nobody every really dies in time-traveling shows. Here's the thing -- shouldn't there already be a Carter already existing in the 70s ?  They could always grab him and add him to the crew.  Paradoxes be damned.

 

He died. And even if, he would likely have been too old to join the team. Their son looked like he was in his 50s, I think.  But you are right, the team will likely meet lots of hawkmans during their travels (past and future), but still many of them won't be Carter. Not just in name but some other things. He would be someone born in a different time, with a different background etc. 

 

I look forward to seeing a Hawkman-less Kendra and see her spread her wings more.  Now she can interact with other team members, make her own decisions instead of being in the hawk bubble. I didn't hate Carter/Hawkman btw, I just didn't think he needed to be a regular. He will likely still exist in some timelines, so that's  good for the actor and Hawkman fans.

Edited February 3, 2016 by WildcardC

[wayne67]

He died. And even if, he would likely have been too old to join the team. Their son looked like he was in his 50s, I think.  But you are right, the team will likely meet lots of hawkmans during their travels (past and future), but still many of them won't be Carter. Not just in name but some other things. He would be someone born in a different time, with a different background etc. 

 

I'm fairly sure his Hawkmom and dad died when he was still a child so there could be a Hawkman in his early 20's just learning he's a Hawkman.

 

Back onto the subject of Kendra. I'm really hoping she starts adding something more interesting to the group soon. In the latest episode she spent most of the episode asleep. Hopefully Sara will start training Kendra in the art of fighting soon and Snart will let her borrow his cold gun so she can freeze then stab Savage. 

[Wishing Well]

Holy shit this just changed my entire opinion on Ciara Renee

[kismet]

Maybe if she just sings all of her lines that will make her better on the show??

 

Beautiful voice, but so far her acting her been pretty sub par on the show even by CW standards.

[slayer2]

Maybe if she just sings all of her lines that will make her better on the show??

 

Beautiful voice, but so far her acting her been pretty sub par on the show even by CW standards.

 

I think she just needs Ivana Chubbuck. If someone can get her in the same room as Ian Somerhalder or Kat Graham for five minutes I think we'll be good.

[MarkHB]

I wonder if part of the reason Kendra is so vague is because her background is so light compared to the other characters.  Most of the others have either been around the shows for a while, or in Rip's case they gave him "your family was killed so you got angry and stole a TARDIS."  Ciara has to try to build a character around "2 months ago you were a barista from Wisconsin, now you're a vessel for an avenging hawk goddess and have 3000 years of past lives and a dead soulmate."  There's not a whole hell of a lot you can do to build a character out of that except be perpetually off-balance with your whole life; she's done that pretty well but "be vaguely confused, all the time" doesn't give us much to latch onto as viewers.  Unlike the other actors, she doesn't even have much of a comics history to read up on because LoT Kendra is very different from the other incarnations (sorry) of Hawkgirl, even from the comics Kendra.  Plus, I wonder how well she's adapted to the "no, there aren't any rehearsals" pace of TV production when she's been a stage actress for her whole career.

[Trini]

I thought we'd be seeing little flashbacks of her former lives. I'm surprised Hawkman hasn't made a cameo yet. If he were here, then she'd have some story related to their pasts.

[BkWurm1]

I can't say I'm upset that she hasn't had more flashbacks. The ancient Egypt ones have been painful. I have to think that killing off Carter was always there plan ( he wasn't part of the originally submitted cast list). So they must have not planned to rely on the flashbacks since it seems like they'd need Carter in them, though even though Carter always remembers first, Kendra could conceivably remember parts of her life that didn't include Carter, so that could change.

She's better since she's been allowed to be a blank slate with Ray (compared to always facing Carter's expectations) but I still want something better to showcase how she thinks and feels. I don't feel like we've gotten very deep...yet. Maybe in the next episode.

[MarkHB]

Here's an amusing retelling of the multiple origins of the Hawks.  It actually concentrates on Hawkman, but some version of Shiera was always there by his side.  It doesn't even try to touch Kendra Saunders, though.

[KirkB]

The most bizarre thing to me is that Kendra is central to the narrative because of her ancient link to Savage, and the revelation that she is the only person who can kill him. You would think, or at least I would, that she would be the most developed character and perhaps even the linchpin character, perhaps next to Rip as the one who brought the team together. But she's not. She can't even go on most of the missions since they never know when they might run into Savage and he can sense her coming, so she spends most of her time on the ship. And thus far her only real character development seems to focus on her love life, how she is 'destined' to be with Carter yet wants to be with Ray. Sara, Snart and Rory seem to get the most screen time, with Rip and Ray right behind them, leaving Jax, Kendra, and to a lesser extent Stein, without much to do. I don't hate Kendra or anything, but given the fact the whole show kind of revolves around her it seems I ought to like her a lot more than I do. And this last episode didn't help, she finally had a chance to kill Savage (getting rid of the character I do most dislike, and not for the reasons I'm supposed to) and screwed it up because, again, of her love life. 

[Sakura12]

Kendra should be more than a love interest, yet that's is the only storyline they wrote for her. Yes, she is the only one that can end Savage for good but they never focused on that. She's 4000 years old! In that time shouldn't she have some knowledge of Savage's weaknesses or something that can be useful for the team? They said she got her memories of Carter back, did she really only get the memories of her love for Carter? That is useless information for the team. Then she had a chance to end Savage and because of stupid Carter she didn't. 

Speaking of Carter, they are making him seem like he was controlling everything they did for 4000 years and he failed each and every time. If Kendra is supposed to have been this great Priestess shouldn't that mean something to her? Like maybe try something different? From what we've seen Kendra has been weak in all her lifetimes and was just looking for a boyfriend. I'm not even sure why Old West Kendra is still living. If Carter is the only man she can love what is she doing with her life? She wasn't helping anyone, she was living by herself in the forest. Which also shows that without Carter she's apparently not being killed by Savage since she's lived to an old age, kind of showing he's the one that gets them killed. 

They really should've used Kendra to show some female empowerment. If Carter is the only man she can love, then she shouldn't be spending her time looking for a new boyfriend. She should be spending her time training to fight Savage, studying Savage, helping people that Savage also hurt, doing something productive with her life. Show me a 4000 year old Warrior Priestess. That is someone that I could've gotten behind.

All we got is someone that moped about her stupid love life for 13 episodes! Then failed to do her only job for the greater good because a block of wood landed at her feet. 

Edited May 3, 2016 by Sakura12

[MarkHB]

Interview with Ciara Renee.

Quote

You come from a stage background, so how difficult was filming a show like Legends of Tomorrow where it’s very stunt heavy?
It was very difficult. It’s a huge transition from stage to TV. I think that there’s a lot of integrity and grit and awesomeness in stage, but nothing compares to a TV schedule. It’s very difficult and very grueling. It’s a very stunt-heavy show, there’s lots of fighting. Luckily having a stage background, it is a very physical thing that you do every night, so I felt like at least I had some preparation for that. It was very different, but I learned a great deal. I’m very grateful to have had that opportunity.

[kismet]

CR did seem like a very nice person. It's a shame they never found a way to write her effectively or at least let her display her singing talent. They could have written a singing mission into their adventures of the week. Her & Stein could have done a duet.

I'm glad they didn't kill her in the end, but I do think it was time for her to leave stage left for a little bit.

[KirkB]

I think the biggest mistake was basing Kendra's whole character as a love interest. First for Cisco, then Carter, then Ray. Even Savage. Instead of introducing her as an actual person, she was kind of like a prop. Had she shown up already as Hawkgirl, fighting Savage instead of needing to be protected from him, it might have worked better. Carter could have been introduced later in the season, and they could have brought the reincarnation stuff up as the story allowed. As it was presented Kendra wasn't really her own hero, even the decision to join the team came because Carter beat her in a fight.

[jhlipton]

On 3/9/2016 at 1:50 AM, kismet said:

Maybe if she just sings all of her lines that will make her better on the show??

She really is a very good singer:

I think the pressures of a weekly stunt-heavy show got the better of her.  I think they should have put her in a less critical role, at least until she got used to the schedule.

[kismet]

Instead of a barista, they should have had her be introduced on a singer-songwriter night at Jitters. A singer would at least have been better for the actress and a notable career to mention with gusto instead of barista for multiple episodes.

It's really a shame that they wasted not only the comic character legend, but also her talent. Saddling her with only being a barista who falls in love was not a good choice. At least if they let her sing, it might have increased her comfort level with the character.

Edited May 21, 2016 by kismet

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, kismet said:

Instead of a barista, they should have had her be introduced on a singer-songwriter night at Jitters. A singer would at least have been better for the actress and a notable career to mention with gusto instead of barista for multiple episodes.

It's really a shame that they wasted not only the comic character legend, but also her talent. Saddling her with only being a barista who falls in love was not a good choice. At least if they let her sing, it might have increased her comfort level with the character.

I really like this idea.

[nksarmi]

11 hours ago, kismet said:

Instead of a barista, they should have had her be introduced on a singer-songwriter night at Jitters. A singer would at least have been better for the actress and a notable career to mention with gusto instead of barista for multiple episodes.

It's really a shame that they wasted not only the comic character legend, but also her talent. Saddling her with only being a barista who falls in love was not a good choice. At least if they let her sing, it might have increased her comfort level with the character.

I can't believe they didn't make her a jazz singer or something in one of her past lives. I mean come on - they have found a way to let both GG and JM sing on Flash and we had built in time travel to this show! If they ever want to bring her back for a guest spot, maybe they can bring in just Kendra as a singer in a 1920s lounge or something like that. Preferably a Kendra who knew who she was but her Carter had already died, because I don't ever need to see Carter again.

Edited May 21, 2016 by nksarmi

[MarkHB]

OMG.  It's true. All of it.  Well, truer than it was when they wrote the show at least :) .

[jhlipton]

2 hours ago, MarkHB said:

OMG.  It's true. All of it.  Well, truer than it was when they wrote the show at least :) .

Maybe not all of it... That is pretty cool though.