Spoilers and Spoiler Speculation: Benchmarking

[Catznip]

11 hours ago, flickers said:

I've spoken to someone who's seen the next two episodes (though I was told that episode 13x23 wasn't totally done editing) and apparently they're both very strong and bring about a lot of change, particularly 12x23. I believe the producers know that this season has been perceived as a bit stagnant, and the mission for the finale is basically to turn things on their head and launch new stories for

@Baseops, like you said interesting they edited out the Arizona and Minnick scene, does the next two episodes heat up for the pair?

[BaseOps]

3 hours ago, Catznip said:

@Baseops, like you said interesting they edited out the Arizona and Minnick scene, does the next two episodes heat up for the pair?

No clue, sorry! I haven't seen ahead, though I know Minnick is definitely in the next episode.

13x24 - Ring of Fire (Season Finale) - A dangerous patient escapes the hospital room, putting the doctor's lives at risk; Alex faces a difficult decision in his relationship with Jo; Meredith has big news for Nathan.

[Catznip]

14 minutes ago, BaseOps said:

 

13x24 - Ring of Fire (Season Finale) - A dangerous patient escapes the hospital room, putting the doctor's lives at risk; Alex faces a difficult decision in his relationship with Jo; Meredith has big news for Nathan.

Saw a spoiler clip with fire trunks, looks like the hospital will have some sort of fire. 

[Ohwell]

4 hours ago, BaseOps said:

Meredith has big news for Nathan

Oh gawd.  If she's pregnant then I'm done.

[LifeBelieveLove]

@BaseOps do you know, if Japril will share some screen time in the next two episodes?! The lack of continuity this season drives me crazy ?

[StaceyNotStacie]

1 hour ago, Ohwell said:

Oh gawd.  If she's pregnant then I'm done.

Her uterus isn't as hostile as it used to be. 

[Catznip]

2 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Oh gawd.  If she's pregnant then I'm done.

Saw a clip of Mer and Nathan, Mer tells Nathan something, he picks her up and spins her around. She grabs his face and I think they a kiss. 

[GSMHvisitor]

@BaseOps thanks for the info. It doesn't fix much of the season, but it's reassuring to know we haven't seen the last of Jo. Do you know if she will also be in the next episode? Or is it just 13x23 (+ the finale I assume)?

[Ohwell]

32 minutes ago, Catznip said:

Saw a clip of Mer and Nathan, Mer tells Nathan something, he picks her up and spins her around. She grabs his face and I think they a kiss. 

Gaaakkk!!!

But maybe the writers are just teasing us.  

Edited April 29, 2017 by Ohwell

[Starscream]

23 minutes ago, Catznip said:

Saw a clip of Mer and Nathan, Mer tells Nathan something, he picks her up and spins her around. She grabs his face and I think they a kiss. 

Then he immediately drives away, leaving her standing there in the parking lot.

[Ohwell]

8 minutes ago, Starscream said:

Then he immediately drives away, leaving her standing there in the parking lot.

Then Maggie shows up doing the happy dance around Meredith.  

[Starscream]

He really does drive away.  That's what makes that clip so confusing and had a lot of people speculating that she's telling him something about Megan.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Starscream

[OtterMommy]

50 minutes ago, Catznip said:

Saw a clip of Mer and Nathan, Mer tells Nathan something, he picks her up and spins her around. She grabs his face and I think they a kiss. 

I really, really hope that's a red herring. 

I mean, if she were pregnant, would either of them be exactly *joyful* about it?  They haven't been together that long, they aren't even really public with it, and Meredith has 3 other children (supposedly).

Please, please let it be something else....

[Catznip]

1 hour ago, OtterMommy said:

I really, really hope that's a red herring. 

I mean, if she were pregnant, would either of them be exactly *joyful* about it?  They haven't been together that long, they aren't even really public with it, and Meredith has 3 other children (supposedly).

Please, please let it be something else....

Yes it was bizarre. Nathan heard the word baby and jumped  in his car leaving Mer istanding in the parking lot, pregnant and bare foot! 

[Deanie87]

I don't think she's pregnant and I don't think it has anything to do with Megan. I can't imagine that either of them would be happy about a pregnancy or a magically reappearing ex.  At least not 100%.  Maybe it has something to do with a patient or maybe Mer gives him encouragement about their relationship.  If they give Mer yet another kid, it would be beyond ridiculous.

[Pinecone]

So, I would also like to see Jo, Arizona and Alex place a PICC line in a baby hippo, like the docs at Cincinnati Children's Hospital did for Baby Fiona the premature hippo. I'm just putting that out there, Shonda Claus. I've been bitterly disappointed, but that would be fun. Maybe an elephant? 

[jschoolgirl]

On 4/29/2017 at 1:47 PM, Ohwell said:

Oh gawd.  If she's pregnant then I'm done.

Oh, of course she is. And then Megan will show up, and the DRAHMAH fires up!

36 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

So, I would also like to see Jo, Arizona and Alex place a PICC line in a baby hippo, like the docs at Cincinnati Children's Hospital did for Baby Fiona the premature hippo. I'm just putting that out there, Shonda Claus. I've been bitterly disappointed, but that would be fun. Maybe an elephant? 

Why not, we had that stupid, stupid deer.

(Not deerist.)

[krod1995]

if anyone knows any spoilers about what news meredith tells riggs or anything about japril please message me I'm desperate 

[BaseOps]

Just to have it all in one place, here are the upcoming episode synopsis for the remainder of the season. 

13x22 - “Leave It Inside” – April and Andrew consult with a fiery patient who has a giant, inoperable heart tumor. Meanwhile, Alex and Eliza are at odds over the treatment of a young patient, and Stephanie and Ben make decisions that could affect their careers.

13x23 - “True Colors” – The doctors of Grey Sloan encounter a difficult case involving a dangerous patient. Meanwhile, Owen receives life-changing news that pushes Amelia to step up to support him, and Alex attends a medical conference after making a shocking discovery.

13x24 - “Ring of Fire” [Season Finale] – The doctors’ lives are at risk after a dangerous patient escapes the hospital room. Alex must make a hard choice in his relationship with Jo while Meredith has some big news for Nathan that brings things to a turning point.

Promo photos for the finale, including Meredith, Alex, Arizona, Bailey, and Ben. 
 

Edited May 1, 2017 by BaseOps

[Deanie87]

Thanks BaseOps!   So based on the synopses and the various promo photos, the obvious guesses are that Megan has either come back or been found dead, Meredith is pregnant and Jo's husband shows up someplace.  But I"m not convinced on at least two of them.   The words life-changing is what throws me off for Owen.  If his sister shows up or is found to be dead, I might call it shocking or tragic, but I don't know about life-changing. Same thing if Owen's mother dies. The phrasing makes me think he has a secret kid.  

As far as Meredith, I can't imagine that anyone would think giving her yet another kid would be a good idea, so I just need to dismiss that one out of hand.  But if it is news about their relationship, I guess that Megan being alive would be considered big news but that just seems too obvious and it doesn't really fit with what I just mentioned about Owen.  So maybe she tells him she loves him or something along those lines.  If it turns out to be Megan, it seems to me that the term "life-changing" would refer to Riggs and "big news" would refer to Owen, not the other way around.

Regarding Jo's husband, I do think that he will be at the conference that Alex attends, and it sounds like Alex knows who he is ahead of time, so the question is how does he find out and what happens next.  Unless the "shocking" thing is something else and Alex goes to the conference for some other reason and realizes who Jo's husband is.  Since Jo and Alex don't really have a relationship anymore and apparently haven't spoken in months, my guess is his hard decision is whether or not to tell Jo that he knows who and where the husband is.  

[GSMHvisitor]

I like those theories. The Alex/Jo one is so very plausible, especially with what we know about the penultimate episode. The wording would fit too. I thought they were gonna quickly reconcile them, but the word "hard" threw me of. Big or important would have done in that case. Alex being torn about what to do with the husband info makes more sense.

I like the idea of Owen having a secret kid, and if it's only because I'm not interested in having Megan on the show. (Although I'm sure it will happen eventually.) But Owen has wanted a child since season seven, so give him one, I don't care. My feeling still says Megan though.

Meredith telling Nathan she loves him does seem a bit early, but it would work with the short hug+swirl video that's been leaked.

[OtterMommy]

12 minutes ago, GSMHvisitor said:

Meredith telling Nathan she loves him does seem a bit early, but it would work with the short hug+swirl video that's been leaked.

You know, it could be something of a more professional nature.  For example, Meredith gets a grant to do the research she's ignore the past several years and she's excited about it (despite forgetting about it for the past several years).  Or, Meredith and Riggs get a grant to do some research together.  Of course, the show hasn't given us any reason to believe that Meredith and Riggs would work on a project together, but I don't see that as an obstacle.  It hasn't given us any indication to believe that Meredith and Riggs have actual feelings for each other, but here we are.

[Chas411]

20 minutes ago, GSMHvisitor said:

The wording would fit too. I thought they were gonna quickly reconcile them, but the word "hard" threw me of. B

See hard or difficult to me implies ending something but given they haven't interacted properly in so long I'm not sure why the writers would even bother with that..

[jschoolgirl]

3 hours ago, Deanie87 said:

The phrasing makes me think [Owen] has a secret kid.  

Enabling Shonda to recycle a Private Practice storyline: Cooper's secret kid.

[Deanie87]

15 hours ago, jschoolgirl said:

Enabling Shonda to recycle a Private Practice storyline: Cooper's secret kid.

She doesn't even have to go that far.  Mark had one show up on this very show.  It is just as soapy as a sister/wife returning from the dead, but if I had to choose between the two, I would much rather see Owen with a kid than Riggs and Meredith stalling their relationship yet again.  Especially considering Mer seems lukewarm about him at best.  I just won't believe that she would be willing to fight his great love for him.

[BaseOps]

Well the DeLuca / Jo thing comes up again this week. I really have no clue where they're going with it. 

[Deanie87]

6 minutes ago, BaseOps said:

Well the DeLuca / Jo thing comes up again this week. I really have no clue where they're going with it. 

Apparently there were some scenes cut from 13.17 and 13.18 and put into this episode, so the continuity is going to pretty off per usual (Steph asking DeLuca if he likes Jo when he said he thought he was in love with her 5 episodes ago).  But maybe they just wanted to shove a Jo scene in where they can.  If it give any kind of hint to where Jo and Alex are in their "relationship" or feeling for each other, I'm all for it, but since I don't think its really going to go anywhere, then I'm not sure why they are re-visiting it either.

[OtterMommy]

4 hours ago, BaseOps said:

Well the DeLuca / Jo thing comes up again this week. I really have no clue where they're going with it. 

I think we've been told we have to go with it, donchaknow?  Really, we viewers should be thrilled that they've told that two characters who have maybe 5 scenes together in 2 years are in love--why waste time on actually developing a story about it?

Ugh.

[BaseOps]

My dream for the end of this season; Steph moves away to some other hospital, Ben goes back into anesthesiology and will be a recurring guest star next year (demoted from regular), Amelia burns to death in a fire, Minnick survives but then gets run over by a firetruck, DeLuca disappears and no one notices. Intern Cross is promoted to series regular. I'll leave the rest up to the writers. 

[Chas411]

59 minutes ago, BaseOps said:

My dream for the end of this season; Steph moves away to some other hospital, Ben goes back into anesthesiology and will be a recurring guest star next year (demoted from regular), Amelia burns to death in a fire, Minnick survives but then gets run over by a firetruck, DeLuca disappears and no one notices. Intern Cross is promoted to series regular. I'll leave the rest up to the writers. 

Agreed although I don't mind what happens with Ben. 

[BaseOps]

I don't mind Ben, I just don't think the writers have any idea how to write for him and he's been poorly integrated with the cast. I think if they keep trying to give him storylines it's going to go two ways; hurting his marriage with Bailey or doing more reckless shit like last season. I want him and Bailey to just stay happy / content. 

[Chas411]

I think that the poor integration applies to all the interns/residents. It's like after season they just stopped integrating them.

[OtterMommy]

2 hours ago, BaseOps said:

My dream for the end of this season; Steph moves away to some other hospital, Ben goes back into anesthesiology and will be a recurring guest star next year (demoted from regular), Amelia burns to death in a fire, Minnick survives but then gets run over by a firetruck, DeLuca disappears and no one notices. Intern Cross is promoted to series regular. I'll leave the rest up to the writers. 

I would notice if DeLuca disappeared.  He's one of the few characters I actually watch these days (less because of what his character does--which is next to nothing--and more because he' some sweet eye candy).

[BaseOps]

I think one of the biggest issues at the moment is that there are so many characters that are just there. Like, I'd rather hate a TV character than be indifferent to them, especially on a drama. As much as I detest Amelia most of the time, at least she elicits some form of emotion from me - and from the other characters. Then we have DeLuca, Steph, Ben, Jo, who could (and often do) disappear for weeks at a time without anyone on the show noticing. I don't dislike any of those four characters, but I also don't care deeply about them like I should. They have minimal connections to the cast, usually only forging major connections with one character or being confined to that small group of four. Most unfortunate of all is that these characters all had a lot of potential for greatness; most notably Jo. She came in as a love interest for one of the main (and most interesting) characters, but they were never treated like one of the 'core' couples (Mer/Der, Callie/Arizona, April/Jackson, etc.). She's never been given a specialty or been portrayed as an exceptional surgeon, and despite having a rich backstory to explore we don't know that much about her. DeLuca came in as much-needed younger blood, and they actually had a good thing going with him and Maggie, which had potential to give him more interesting dynamics with Richard, Meredith, Amelia, and even Alex (as they're all close to Maggie). Instead, he has randomly fallen in love with Jo. He also lives with Arizona but that's never touched on. 

The best thing about a series lasting this long is the rich backstory to draw on - moments between Meredith and Richard, Bailey and Alex, Owen and Meredith, April and Owen, even April and Meredith have more weight to them because the characters share so much history. Instead of integrating DeLuca or Steph with these characters, they have a tendency of keeping the newbies together. Remember last year when we were suddenly supposed to believe that Steph, Jo, Ben and Penny were all BFFs?  The bloated cast makes it tough to give adequate screentime to developing new characters (unless they're being shoved down our throats like Penny was), so I can't see the issue going away until they shed a few characters. 

Think of it this way - by the end of this season, DeLuca will have been a series regular for two years with additional guest starring credit in S11. Think of how well we knew George, Alex, Izzie, Cristina and Meredith by the end of season 2. 

[Ohwell]

I would miss DeLuca but I'd rather see him on another show where he'd play a more prominent role.  I also don't want to see him get involved in any more of Jo's drama.

[Chas411]

18 minutes ago, BaseOps said:

 The bloated cast makes it tough to give adequate screentime to developing new characters

It's also pointless since the only characters they seem interested in writing for are the sisters - most notably Maggie who seems to have surpassed Meredith in the eyes of the writers as "the sun".

The rest get a some random footnotes here and there but nothing substantial unless it relates directly to the sisters or the sun.

[BaseOps]

37 minutes ago, Chas411 said:

It's also pointless since the only characters they seem interested in writing for are the sisters - most notably Maggie who seems to have surpassed Meredith in the eyes of the writers as "the sun".

The rest get a some random footnotes here and there but nothing substantial unless it relates directly to the sisters or the sun.

I really don't think that's true. Maggie didn't even have a real storyline this year until her mom showed up.

[Ohwell]

2 minutes ago, BaseOps said:

I really don't think that's true. Maggie didn't even have a real storyline this year until her mom showed up.

But what about that mess with DeLuca?

[BaseOps]

27 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

But what about that mess with DeLuca?

Has Maggie even had a scene with DeLuca this season?

[Ohwell]

45 minutes ago, BaseOps said:

Has Maggie even had a scene with DeLuca this season?

I don't know if she's had a scene with him this season, but I was just saying that she has had another storyline other than the one with her mother.  

[Deanie87]

3 hours ago, BaseOps said:

Remember last year when we were suddenly supposed to believe that Steph, Jo, Ben and Penny were all BFFs?

Yes, but also remember when we were supposed to suddenly believe that Meredith loved Maggie and Amelia?  Or that she gave a shit about Owen?  Or that she has intense romantic feelings for Riggs? Jo, Stephanie (and I think) Ben have been on the show longer than Maggie, Amelia, Riggs and DeLuca. I guess I don't find any more ridiculous that Jo, Steph, Ben and DeLuca are friends than I do that Maggie suddenly bursts into tears whenever Meredith doesn't put her first above all else, because you know they are SISTERS!!!!!   The only reason that Maggie and Amelia are "important" to Meredith and therefore the show is because the writers say so over and over and over again.  I don't think that these relationships have been earned anymore than DeLuca and Jo's, for example.  But I do think that Jo and Alex's relationship has been earned and I do think that Ben and Bailey's has been as well.  So its more a matter of opinion as to who is dead weight (meaning who should get cut) and who the writers are willing to write for.  IMO, there are few relationships that have been earned these days and most of them didn't start in the last two seasons.  

ETA - As always I agree that the cast is bloated and the show suffers because of it, I just think that there will never be a consensus on who "deserves" to go.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Deanie87

[BaseOps]

2 minutes ago, Deanie87 said:

Yes, but also remember when we were supposed to suddenly believe that Meredith loved Maggie and Amelia?  Or that she gave a shit about Owen?  Jo, Stephanie (and I think) Ben have been on the show longer than Maggie, Amelia, Riggs and DeLuca. I guess I don't find any more ridiculous that Jo, Steph, Ben and DeLuca are friends than I do that Maggie suddenly bursts into tears whenever Meredith doesn't put her first above all else, because you know they are SISTERS!!!!!   The only reason that Maggie and Amelia are "important" to Meredith and therefore the show is because the writers say so over and over and over again.  I don't think that these relationships have been earned anymore than DeLuca and Jo's, for example.  But I do think that Jo and Alex's relationship has been earned and I do think that Ben and Bailey's has been as well.  So its more a matter of opinion as to who is dead weight (meaning who should get cut) and who the writers are willing to write for.  IMO, there are few relationships that have been earned these days and most of them didn't start in the last two seasons.  

 

I agree about the sisters thing, that just wasn't what my post was about. Maggie falls into the same lane as Penny in that she was one of the new characters that was immediately shoved down our throats, which makes her different from Jo / Steph / Ben / DeLuca (I'd classify Amelia with Penny / Maggie as well). In a short time, they've forged relationships for Maggie with Meredith, Amelia, Richard, Alex, and Jackson... my point is that most new characters don't get that. Jo has only ever gotten developed with Alex and a bit with Steph and she's been here much longer than Maggie. They, sadly, never followed through on her working with Callie or any other attending.  I also agree that Jo / Alex and Bailey / Ben are 'earned' relationships, that also wasn't really what I was talking about... my point was that beyond those, they didn't bother to integrate them with other characters. I feel like Jo has a lot of untapped potential both in her relationship with Alex and as a character on her own who should also have been given material with other characters. I think a great example is how well she worked in the prison episode this year alongside Arizona and Bailey. But we don't get much of that with Jo.

Like I said, I don't dislike the 4 characters I pointed out, I wouldn't say that they're necessarily dead weight, just that the writers dropped the ball with them in terms of development and story potential. That carries into literally every storyline these days, though; I feel like Meredith and Riggs could be great, but the development has been awful. Alex's legal storyline had a good start then quickly fizzled. April and Jackson had sex and then haven't spoken for weeks. With such a large cast, even the characters that the writers apparently love don't get the material that they should. Every storyline suffers, but especially the characters who seem to often been in their own bubble. 

[OtterMommy]

2 hours ago, BaseOps said:

Like I said, I don't dislike the 4 characters I pointed out, I wouldn't say that they're necessarily dead weight, just that the writers dropped the ball with them in terms of development and story potential. That carries into literally every storyline these days, though; I feel like Meredith and Riggs could be great, but the development has been awful. Alex's legal storyline had a good start then quickly fizzled. April and Jackson had sex and then haven't spoken for weeks. With such a large cast, even the characters that the writers apparently love don't get the material that they should. Every storyline suffers, but especially the characters who seem to often been in their own bubble. 

I would completely agree with this, except for maybe Ben.  He has had story lines, mostly in terms of being married to Bailey.  Stephanie, well, she won't be an issue much longer, which leaves Jo and Deluca.  I have a hard time with Jo's character, simply because she is just *too much* of everything (homeless, abused, abuser, etc) that she isn't believable to me.  Deluca, well, I've already shared my feelings about him...

I think part of the problem is that TPTB haven't figured out how to make the show work in the new world order, shall we say.  When the show started, we had 2 clear groups--the intern class of Meredith, Cristina, Alex, Izzie, and George and the attendings (plus Bailey, who was a resident at that time).  Having that sort of dual order worked...until the intern class became attendings.  They did introduce new interns, but they never seemed to be able to make the equation work again.  I'm not saying it *needed* to work like that once Jo and the gang came on board, but they never really defined what the show would be from that point forward.  As a result, we have this sort of sea of characters floating around, with no one having any really clear motivation for anything.

[flickers]

It's the age-old, 90210: The College Years problem.

[Chas411]

4 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

 They did introduce new interns, but they never seemed to be able to make the equation work again

I think they did OK in making them work through season nine/ten. But then they dropped two and in season 11/12 started introducing new interns/residents in dribs and drabs all at different training stages. Had they just committed to the initial class or at least have the current mixed group interact as comrades then at least it wouldn't seem so all over the place. They also dropped the mentoring/training aspect of the show altogether (shame as it was one of my favourites) so the new generation seem even more pointless.

Also until season ten we had clear groups of friendships and alliances. Everyone in the show currently just interacts if the show requires it now. We know that Richard/Bailey come together usually, April/Arizona are friends, the SISTERS (I'm including Alex in that since he practically is one at this stage) and Jo/Steph are all regular pairings and all of the above at least feel earned to some degree minus maybe the SISTERS in entirety as a group. 

All the other times they're just a large group of characters That barely know each other or interact.

[BaseOps]

From TV Guide: 

Though it's not officially billed as a two-parter, the Grey's season finale goes hand in hand with the penultimate episode. "There are two events that happen," star Debbie Allen, who directed the season-ender, tells TVGuide.com. The back-to-back events occur outside the hospital and then within the walls of Grey Sloan, and given that the finale is described as being "on fire," we're guessing Season 13 will include a Shondaland catastrophe for the ages. 

[Chas411]

I wonder will anyone die...

[Crazy Bird Lady]

Well, now we know how Stephanie is leaving... kind of a lousy way to get rid of her.

[Catznip]

8 minutes ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

Well, now we know how Stephanie is leaving... kind of a lousy way to get rid of her.

OMG, Steph is going to be killed by that crazy guy. 

[jschoolgirl]

1 hour ago, Catznip said:

OMG, Steph is going to be killed by that crazy guy. 

And it looks like Owen maybe intervenes, there might be a bad outcome, and we hear his name being sternly called and he cries.

Edited May 5, 2017 by jschoolgirl