S01.E21: Grodd Lives

[KirkB]

I don't know why but I get a kick out of seeing the words telepathic gorilla being typed so many times.  :)

 

Anyway, I'm not too bothered by Wells/Thawne being behind a lot of what's happening. He's been at this for fifteen years or so, putting all the pieces in place. He may have arranged for Grodd to be there specifically because he knew that's where he came from.  

 

I did find it a little strange the gang didn't go talk to Gideon. About Grodd. About Wells. Even about Eddie. Yes, the magic computer from the future shouldn't give up all the secrets but haven't such a resource at their disposal and not at least trying to use it is odd.

 

Something else I wondered on a rewatch. Why was Grodd having Eiling steal gold in the first place? I get Wells using him as a distraction but this seemed awfully specific. Grodd didn't have any need for gold and it wasn't in his lair. Did he have Eiling dump it somewhere? Was he taking it to Wells for some reason? Did Wells/Thawne need cash?

[Actionmage]

Something else I wondered on a rewatch. Why was Grodd having Eiling steal gold in the first place?

 

My speculation:

If Lisa Snart is helping Wells/Thawne, she may need more ammo for her gold-spewing gun.

[Tarasme]

 

I did find it a little strange the gang didn't go talk to Gideon. About Grodd. About Wells. Even about Eddie. Yes, the magic computer from the future shouldn't give up all the secrets but haven't such a resource at their disposal and not at least trying to use it is odd.

At the end of The Trap, didn't Barry go back to the Time Vault and find everything gone except the uber creepy camera feeds? It was my understanding that Gid's MIA along with RF. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

We saw RF show Eddie the newspaper page of the future that had been displayed previously by Gideon. So RF has presumably put Gideon back in the same wristy-thing that Gideon was in 14 years ago to make that reveal.

 

As to the gold, it's possible that the send-RF-back-to-the-future device specifically needs lots of gold for some reason. He doesn't need it for the monetary value -- clearly with Gideon and his own intelligence, RF has access to near-infinite money, either through hacking, making strategic stock trades/gambles using future intel, or by making lucrative scientific breakthroughs ahead of schedule.

[Ottis]

Barry keeping Iris in the dark about being The Flash actually put her in more danger, arguably got at least one person killed, and it meant that he was hiding the biggest part of his life from her--and twisting everyone else in knots to do it.

 

 

Red Herring. Iris was being kept in the dark because of fears that her knowing could put her in more danger. It's the grand tradition of comics, from Batman to Spiderman, that once a partner of a superhero knows the identity of the superhero, that partner becomes more likely to be a target. Bad guys see you hanging with the Flash? You're a target. That's why Joe didn't want Iris chasing situations where The Flash/Barry was in danger, or having those situations follow The Flash home. Other people found out because they needed to (at east at the start; later, far too many people have found out, but we don't care much about most of them as viewers). Iris, a main character we are supposed to care about, didn't.

 

And the converse is true: No one knew that NOT telling her would lead to anyone getting killed.

 

I wish the show had had Barry keep his identity from a male friend as well, just to quell the debate. ANd this doesn't even address all of Iris's actions as she chose Eddie and pursued her own wishes. Barry didn't owe her anything, not at that point, not given his motivations were to protect her (misguided or not). Now, telling Eddie? That seemed unnecessary. 

 

I know nothing about Grodd. Is he actually getting physically bigger, as someone speculated? He seems to be getting smarter, though no matter how smart he gets, it would seem being a huge ape will reduce the effectiveness of his evilness.

[Sakura12]

It's really not about not telling her because she's a girl and love interest. It's he told everyone else but her. He even told some villains, that puts her in danger. Knowing Barry Allen's the Flash means they can find out who is family and friends are, Iris would be in both those groups and the one most likely to be kidnapped. 

 

The only reason they had Barry tell Eddie is to cause conflict for Iris and Eddie so Barry can eventually get the girl because Eddie becomes a liar, then becomes evil. When they should've just make Barry a better choice (which he is not right now) instead of ruining another character to get him there. Ruining one character for another is never going to make me like that other character. Arrow has done that as well, it just made me hate that other character even more. 

[phoenics]

Red Herring. Iris was being kept in the dark because of fears that her knowing could put her in more danger. It's the grand tradition of comics, from Batman to Spiderman, that once a partner of a superhero knows the identity of the superhero, that partner becomes more likely to be a target. Bad guys see you hanging with the Flash? You're a target. That's why Joe didn't want Iris chasing situations where The Flash/Barry was in danger, or having those situations follow The Flash home. Other people found out because they needed to (at east at the start; later, far too many people have found out, but we don't care much about most of them as viewers). Iris, a main character we are supposed to care about, didn't.

Sorry - but I disagree with this simply because I DID care that Iris was being left out. Worse, her agency was taken away and she was being GASLIGHTED by all of the men in her life (as well as Caitlin) with all of the lying and then with the manipulation (Mason, Barry dismissing all of the hard work she did to suss out the whole superconductor thing)...

Yes, the superhero's love interest not knowing of the super hero's identity is a tried and true trope - except when the number of folks who know number OVER TWENTY.

At that point it just becomes hurtful - and that's exactly how Iris felt. Hurt. She realized that neither Barry, Joe or Eddie trusted her enough with this knowledge and she felt both left out and in the way (hence her speech to Joe). Even beyond that, the REASON they didn't tell her took away her agency (and she pointed that out really well to Joe). In fact, it highlighted how long Joe had been taking away her agency by being SO controlling of her life. Barry - her best friend - should have been aware of that and understood how that would have upset her. Instead he joined in. That's really wrong. Eddie was wrong for it too.

And the converse is true: No one knew that NOT telling her would lead to anyone getting killed.

Don't really care. The reality is that it nearly did. RF was taping them all along and they were all woefully outmaneuvered by him in a way that nearly led to Iris getting a vibrating hand through the head.

I wish the show had had Barry keep his identity from a male friend as well, just to quell the debate.

This wouldn't be happening if Barry had kept this from a male friend - because he wouldn't have for the most part. But if you want to compare (since you seem to be implying that the fan reaction would be different), then look no further than Daredevil, where Foggy went OFF on Matt and stayed mad over SEVERAL episodes - I mean - his reaction was raging angry and tearful. Way more dramatic and angry and pissed and prolonged over Iris', yet somehow Iris is the one who gets all the hate.

I think that settles that question.

ANd this doesn't even address all of Iris's actions as she chose Eddie and pursued her own wishes. Barry didn't owe her anything, not at that point, not given his motivations were to protect her (misguided or not). Now, telling Eddie? That seemed unnecessary.

This sounds like NiceGuyTM. Where suddenly if a female doesn't return the affections of a guy she's just friends with, suddenly that releases the guy from any obligation to - oh I don't know - BE the best friend he claims he is or claims to still be? It sounds like you're suggesting that because Iris didn't jump on Barry's weiner after he confessed his love, that she now doesn't get to be treated as his best friend? And that his betrayal of her trust is valid because she didn't jump his bones?

Oh okay then.

[ruby24]

Well, that would be true is she didn't reciprocate, but we all know she does, so really she's being unfair to herself, Eddie and Barry by staying with a guy she doesn't totally want to be with.

 

I have to admit, I hate the "indecisiveness" of this kind of thing with characters on TV. I feel like it only serves to drag things out as many episodes as possible.

[millennium]

Another good episode.    I have no love for Iris but her upgrade from coach to first class felt completely natural, not hurried, not overly dramatic, just right.   This was the first time I felt actual chemistry between Barry and Iris, and it was strong.   I couldn't help but contrast with the so-called love between Oliver Queen and Felicity Smoak, which to me seems contrived.

 

It appears the writers are in no hurry to put Barry and Iris together, which is a good thing.  It will keep their relationship edgy and believable, while also (hopefully) preventing Iris from suffering Felicity's fate.

 

It was good to see Joe lose it in the presence of the gorilla.   Who wouldn't?    About ten years ago in Connecticut a crazed chimpanzee literally tore off a woman's face and bit off her hands, and that chimp was only about 200 lbs.   How much does Grodd weigh?  Two tons? 

 

The CGI looked fake.  But then, so would a guy in a gorilla suit.  

 

I love the Caitlin-Cisco comic relief.

 

The only downside of the episode is that it temporarily pushed Dr. Wells/Reverse Flash offstage.  I suspect that will be remedied in the next episode.

Edited May 13, 2015 by millennium

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Deleted scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7MGie62fnI

[millennium]

Star Labs must be extremely well-funded to buy its prisoners take-out three times a day.