Emma Swan: 1000% done with your infuriating optimism

[YaddaYadda]

I was listening to the Hercules soundtrack, and if they're going with the warped version of the Greek myth on "Once", they might be able to draw parallels between Snowing and Zeus/Hera, who had to let their baby go; between Hercules and Emma, the orphans, given the role of Hero; between Emma and Meg with those Walls©.  

 

So about this, I've been wondering about Emma and her walls actually.

 

How changed will Emma be after this experience? Will she have changed? 

 

It took Emma a lot to admit that she wanted a future with Hook, and part of it probably stems from her always waiting for something horrible to happen. She wasn't sure could be in a relationship with him because she was scared of losing him, and in the span of 2 episodes (I'm not counting 5x09), she told him she wanted a future with him like 3 times.

 

But he actually died, and yeah, she's going to the Underworld to get him back, but is she going to be reluctant about the future Emma because she's scared, or is she going to embrace it fully as Emma Swan, Savior, devoid of darkness, and so on?

[Rumsy4]

I think Emma is finally all-walls down. Her face as she stepped into the lake to bring back Hook was glowing with hope. She is truly embracing what it means to be the daughter of Snow White and Prince Charming.

[Camera One]

I'm not sure if A&E know how to write for her if they let her lose her Walls completely, so I am guessing she will not change much.  These writers love resetting their characters to square one.  Emma is one of the few characters who have been allowed to change organically and gradually, which is one of the good things I guess.

[Curio]

I think going forward Emma will still have some walls up, but they won't be about Hook and their future as a couple. Emma will probably be all on board living with Hook in their new house and beginning a life together as a team, but where Emma might throw her walls up again is if they ever discuss having a kid together. Emma said she wasn't afraid about her future with Hook, but having a kid might bring up a whole new set of walls that stem back to when she had to give Henry up for adoption and the fear of her child possibly having the same life she had. Emma is everyone's go-to person to save the day as the Savior, and her life and Hook's life are always put in peril on a daily basis, so it would make sense if Emma didn't want to bring a new child into their crazy lives.

 

Then again, this has never seemed to be an issue for the other couples on the show with kids and babies, so it'll probably be a complete non-issue.

[YaddaYadda]

Emma said she wasn't afraid about her future with Hook, but having a kid might bring up a whole new set of walls that stem back to when she had to give Henry up for adoption and the fear of her child possibly having the same life she had.

 

Maybe, and maybe not?

 

The thing is, we just don't know what Emma wants. She wanted a future with Hook, but she was reluctant because of I'm assuming the same reasons she had (4x03) for being reluctant giving what was between them a chance. 

 

I sort of go back to the ring scene in 5x07 when she's all whoa, and when he tells her he's not proposing, she has this look on her face, like she's just protesting too much, but might consider it.

 

Emma started living in the moment a bit more in season 4, and even in 5A, we saw her have her moments in Camelot, where she's living her life the way she wants (or trying at least) in the middle of a crisis. 

 

I think where Emma might be blocked if children ever come up is the way Henry would feel.

 

Because this is where the whole issue lies for me. Emma gave up Henry for adoption because she was young, and in a bad situation, with zero support system around her. If she were to have another child, it would completely different now. She has a partner who has supported her through everything, she even has her parents who would be there for her. She's not alone.

 

But Emma even though she said nothing about it seemed/was hurt that her mother wanted to have another child, and we've been around this a million times, Mary Margaret wanted a do over in the Echo Caves, she did not sign up for a grown up child. 

 

If Emma felt that way, and she decides she wants another kid, maybe she'll feel Henry will think he's being replaced, and that might hurt him.

 

Plus we don't really know what Hook wants at all. We know he wants a life with Emma, a future with her, I think that maybe he has given marriage a thought or two, but does he want more than that, or is content with just the two of them growing old together?

Edited January 31, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[Curio]

Emma having to discuss if she wants a bigger family, or if she's content with what she has with Hook and Henry, and talking to Hook about what he wants is enough drama to last a good chunk of the season. We'll see if the writers even touch on it for longer than 30 seconds.

[YaddaYadda]

Emma having to discuss if she wants a bigger family, or if she's content with what she has with Hook and Henry, and talking to Hook about what he wants is enough drama to last a good chunk of the season. We'll see if the writers even touch on it for longer than 30 seconds.

 

If there's ever a child, I think we know it will likely be an oopsie so that they don't have to deal with anything emotional. Although, they've tried to do right by Captain Swan so far, and all the conversations other couples don't have, they do. So we shall see.

[october]

CS is all about the slow burn and the (metaphorical) baby steps. So, with that in mind, I think they should get a dog next. The house is big enough and we hardly ever see Pongo any more. Hook has the time to care for a pet and Emma could take it out on patrols. Colin and Jennifer both have dogs, so they'd be comfortable on set with one.

From spoiler pics we know that Lieutenant Jones had a dog at some point.

And, with her upbringing, Emma probably never had a pet (though who knows, maybe in S6 we'll find out she had a parrot who was actually Iago from Aladdin). Sharing responsibility for a pet could also help them figure out whether they'd want to have children together or if they feel their family is large enough as it is.

[daxx]

CS is all about the slow burn and the (metaphorical) baby steps. So, with that in mind, I think they should get a dog next. The house is big enough and we hardly ever see Pongo any more. Hook has the time to care for a pet and Emma could take it out on patrols. Colin and Jennifer both have dogs, so they'd be comfortable on set with one.

From spoiler pics we know that Lieutenant Jones had a dog at some point.

And, with her upbringing, Emma probably never had a pet (though who knows, maybe in S6 we'll find out she had a parrot who was actually Iago from Aladdin). Sharing responsibility for a pet could also help them figure out whether they'd want to have children together or if they feel their family is large enough as it is.

I can see Emma being a cat person though, considering they are so independent. Killian would be comfortable with cats since they frequent ships to handle the mouse and rat problem. Dogs are good too of course.

[Curio]

I can see Emma being a cat person though, considering they are so independent.

 

Heh, I was literally just about the post the exact same thing. Even though Jennifer has a dog in real life, I think Emma would like how quiet and independent cats are, and also how they're pretty hassle-free. Dogs require sitters all the time, constant attention, and if Emma and the gang ever get zapped to another land for a few days or months, the cat would be able to take care of itself.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Curio

[mjgchick]

Now knowing that Emma becoming the dark one was actually her doing the hero thing, why was she still not able to pull out Excalibur? Is it because saving Hook was selfish? Or is it because she refused to let anyone else help her? It seemed her lesson was the fact that she wanted to do everything on her own. She got yelled at more for that than actually turning Hook. Snow was one of the first ones to defend her on that even with her "That's not Emma anymore" nonsense. What's worse is that Rumples half assed heroing amounted to him Mary Sueing his way back to being The Dark One and the most powerful one of all which I still don't get.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Now knowing that Emma becoming the dark one was actually her doing the hero thing

I feel so sorry for Emma. She went through so much crap as the Dark One just to keep her loved ones safe. She didn't always make the right choices, but she had good intentions for the most part. No one in Storybrooke but Hook deserves her, tbh. Henry, Regina, Snow and Charming can all go take a hike.

Edited February 7, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

So what do you all think?  Did Emma go through a lot of TRUE character development in 5A?  

 

I was personally not very satisfied with her arc.  I mean, it could have been way worse... I was worried they were going to have Emma murdering people.  But still... it was pretty much what I expected.  They made her the Dark One to create a conflict, rather than to truly explore her character.

[Curio]

So what do you all think?  Did Emma go through a lot of TRUE character development in 5A?  

 

Did any character go through a "true" character arc in 5A?

 

What's strange about Emma's character development is that, in my opinion, her biggest emotional climax wasn't anything Dark Swan related, but finally accepting Hook and their future together. The whole "I'm not afraid of that future anymore" and lighting the flame were huge personal leaps for Emma, but there was hardly any build-up to it. For most of the half season, the writers tried to be too elusive with what was going on in Emma's head that it never even occurred to me that Operation Light Swan would even scare her. If that moment where she accepted Hook's house with the white picket fence was Emma's big climactic character development moment, then why weren't we given any hints about it before that episode?

 

If that was one of the bigger walls Emma had to overcome, then why didn't we see any of Operation Light Swan on screen? Why didn't we see Emma and Hook have a casual conversation about living styles where Emma seemed apprehensive about the future? You have to show us some of those scenes in order for the Promethean Flame scene to have any meaning or impact. Same goes for the random confession during the finale last season when Emma admitted she was too afraid to tell Hook she loved him. That confession seemed so out of the blue because the writers didn't properly work up to that moment during 4B and focused most of their efforts instead on Operation Dumbass and Regina's happy ending.

 

So to answer the question, I think Emma did go through some decent character development because she went from being afraid of moving in with Hook to being so distraught at the thought of losing him that she's going to the Underworld to bring him back. But unfortunately, all of that development seemed to happen in 3 episodes because they saved the big climatic Operation Light Swan reveal until later on in the story arc.

[Camera One]

Of course no character went through any true development.  It is this show after all.  But this 5A arc purported to put Emma front and center, so it's a fair question to ask.  And the question is was Dark Emma necessary?  Could Emma have come to the same conclusions WITHOUT being Dark Emma?  In what ways did becoming the Dark One facilitate that realization?  

[YaddaYadda]

And the question is was Dark Emma necessary?  Could Emma have come to the same conclusions WITHOUT being Dark Emma?  In what ways did becoming the Dark One facilitate that realization?

 

The show loves portraying Emma as someone who is emotionally closed off, even though I don't think that's true anymore because the rare moments that we had with Captain Swan in 4B all showed that Emma had really come a long way. Emma living in the moment, Emma looking like she's in love with Hook, Emma heart broken over his death. I'm still sort of pissed that the writers chose to regress the character within 30 minutes of her big reveal to Bandit!Regina.

 

I don't know that Dark Swan was necessary for Emma to come to the conclusions she came to, but it sort of allowed Emma to be selfish with her feelings. Would Emma have tethered Hook's life to the sword if she was not the Dark One, or would she have accepted his death because the people she loves/cares about always end up leaving anyway, and it's just a fact of her life that she has accepted. 

 

Emma was scared of getting into a relationship with him because she was worried she was going to lose him in the end. And it just seems that having the darkness allowed her to give the universe the middle finger, and be selfish with what she wanted for a change. So maybe the darkness was needed on some level.

[Curio]

And the question is was Dark Emma necessary? Could Emma have come to the same conclusions WITHOUT being Dark Emma? In what ways did becoming the Dark One facilitate that realization?  

 

The Dark Swan wasn't entirely necessary in the larger picture, although I like YaddaYadda's point about it allowing Emma to be a lot more selfish than she has been in the past. But the show mainly used the darkness as a tool to turn Hook into a Dark One and make him do all the nasty things the writers were too afraid to let Emma do, and then use that as the reason to kill him and head into 5B: Underworld. Thinking about her big climatic "I'm afraid of the future" moment of realization, Emma being the Dark One wasn't a factor at all when she vocalized her fear about Operation Light Swan—that was just plain old Emma Swan walls. The only big conflicts Emma had when she was the Dark Swan was isolating herself/not asking for help, taking away Hook's agency, and her plan to kill Zelena by transferring the darkness into her. (And that last one shouldn't have been that big of an issue because Regina was about to do the same exact thing last season and no one batted an eye.) The first conflict was one we've already seen before on the show when Emma wasn't a Dark One, but the second and third only happen if Emma was a Dark One. 

 

Dark Emma should have been able to hash out all her issues with her parents and Regina and the town because the darkness wouldn't have given a crap about their feelings. Dark Swan was the perfect opportunity for Emma to verbally lash out and scream at her parents for being afraid of her magic and never truly understanding what's best for her, scream at Regina for being a hypocritical, whiny "friend" who never confessed about Graham and guilt-tripped Emma into doing Operation Dumbass (which was the domino that started all of this Dark Swan business), and scream at the town for never taking the time to thank Emma for risking her life for their happiness all the time. The writers seemed to scratch the surface between Hook and Emma's issues by bringing up how Emma can sometimes take Hook's loyalty for granted and his comment about being a love sick puppy dog, but then they never really dug into it. Maybe they will in 5B, but I doubt it.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

Beyond the whole let's have Emma crush hearts, and crazy shit like that, that's what I was expecting, for Emma to lash out. If the darkness allowed her to be selfish with her feelings, then it should have allowed her to lash out at the people that did her wrong. I was waiting for Emma to freak out at her parents and Regina. And I was so happy after 5x01 aired because I was like finally, and even in 5x02 when she refused to help out with the fury, I was like great, Emma is saying no, which is something she so very rarely, if ever does.

 

The darkness should have heightened whatever suppressed feelings she had.

 

Am I supposed to believe that Emma has no feelings regarding the way she has been treated by her mom and Regina?

 

Hook is the one who got to call Regina out, and he got to call Emma out, and I think he would've called David out too if David wasn't such a non entity on the show. He called Regina on hurtful things she's said to him, and when he went after Emma and told her she will always be an orphan because of the way she pushes people away, that stuff didn't come out of nowhere. Regina picked on his handicap, and Emma pushed him away countless times, and that shit hurts.

 

So I guess Emma is a-okay with everything that was done to her, said to her. She has no feelings one way or another apparently.

 

The writers are so chicken for not addressing the issues. If the characters had been called out on their behavior, it should have been a moment where they should have acknowledged that Emma deserves better, and they should try to do better by her.

 

Is the wobbly relationship with the parents, and fake friendship with Regina so precious that it can't sustain a shot of truth?

 

What's so different between Hook/Emma who are a couple, (and he is saying that stuff to her while he is filled with darkness, because we know if he had ever confronted Emma on that stuff, he wouldn't have used words like that), and Emma/parents, Emma/Regina?

Edited February 7, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[Shanna Marie]

Is the wobbly relationship with the parents, and fake friendship with Regina so precious that it can't sustain a shot of truth?

I think the problem is that the writers don't see Emma's relationship with her parents as wobbly or her friendship with Regina as fake. They seem to think these are solid, healthy, happy relationships in which all the issues have been worked out. Once Emma said she wanted to be Regina's friend and Regina said she didn't want to kill Emma, they were on solid footing as friends, with no bad feelings or resentments (never mind those pesky little issues like Regina never confessing to killing Graham and letting Emma grovel in apologies for ruining Regina's life by saving Marian while knowing that she'd actually murdered Emma's almost-boyfriend to keep them apart). Once Emma had her "there's no place like home" moment, she was good with her parents until the eggbaby revelation, and then that was resolved after the dragon attack once she realized she loved her parents anyway. They don't seem to believe that Emma would have any bad feelings that she'd need to express.

[Camera One]

Yes.  Remember Emma needs Regina as much as Regina needs her.  Emma: "All I want is to be your friend."   Because no one else can understand her the way Regina can understand her.  Snow and Charming are tainted heroes, but Emma doesn't want them to die.  What else does anyone want in a parent-child relationship?

[Rumsy4]

I too agree that Emma ought to have hashed things out more with her parents and Regina when she was Dark Swan. However, I loved the moment where Emma rejected Nimue's temptation to not be "nothing" by asserting her self-worth. It echoed S1 Emma saying "People are gonna tell you who you are your whole life. You just gotta punch back and say, "No, this is who I am".  She was also able to reject the Darkness, and is also overall more open to Love and Hope. So, I do think Emma has had a decent amount of character development this arc. It's the reset button on Rumple that is irritating. They writers put Emma and then Hook through the wringer, and at the end of it, the Darkness is still undefeated, and Rumple is the Dark One again. It's like Emma temporarily took the Darkness just so Rumple could get a clean slate and take the Darkness back. If Emma doesn't play the main role in taking Rumple down for good at the end of the Show, I'm going to be very angry.

[YaddaYadda]

I loved the moment where Emma rejected Nimue's temptation to not be "nothing" by asserting her self-worth.

 

That might have been the best moment for me in 5A. 

 

If Emma doesn't play the main role in taking Rumple down for good at the end of the Show, I'm going to be very angry.

We'll be angry together then. I thought 5x11 sort of set that up with the whole "you won the battle, not the war," line from Hook when he and Rumple were snarking at each other. That echoed for me what Rumple said about the battle of good vs evil back in season 1, and how Emma is the one who is smack dab in the middle of this one.

 

We now have the most powerful Dark One ever, but Rumple has always been worried about Emma's magic, and dare I say scared of her. 

[Shanna Marie]

After 5A, they'd best not say anything about Regina getting the short end of the stick. Emma sacrifices herself to save Regina (from immediate peril) and the town and maybe even the world (from sure-fire peril), and what does she get for it? She gets weeks of psychological torture, has her family questioning everything she does, gets her role usurped in the one time it's actually celebrated, has Regina gleefully controlling her with the dagger, is guilted into risking her soul to save Regina's boyfriend, has her family taken hostage, has to take a huge risk to save her boyfriend's life when he's wounded saving her mother's life, watches her boyfriend become something she knows he hates, has her whole family nearly dragged into the Underworld, and then has to kill the man she loves to save everyone.

 

And what does she have to show for it? Well, I guess Regina is safe, and so is the town, but otherwise what she accomplished in all that is giving Rumple a fresh start with his heart and getting to keep his powers. Yay. No wonder she's all, "Hell, yeah, I'm marching into the Underworld to get Hook back." She deserves to get something good out of all that. Emma suffered more for doing something good than Regina has suffered for all her evil.

[mjgchick]

I feel like every season the show takes Emma to task with her walls. In S1 it was her relationship with Henry and believing in magic. In S2 she did accept that what Snow and David sacrificed for her was a big deal. That scene where Snow tells her to get ready to be put first (Yeah right.) seemed huge to me. Then in S3 she accepted Storybrook and her parents as her home. In S4 she accepted her magic and had a great friendship with Elsa. (Yes I'm ignoring the fake one she has with Regina.) I guess S4 is her accepting that its ok for her to think about the future with Hook? In S4 we kept hearing her say how she needs her own place well Hook just sped that up for her. lol I wonder what other wall are the writers going to discuss with Emma in S6?

I still don't understand why the show kept telling us that the reason why Emma was afraid had to do with her loving dark magic when she not only hated it but was really afraid to be in a grown up relationship.

Just give homegirl a break, show.

[Rumsy4]

JMo talks about Emma's tattoo, and her motivations for going to the UW to save Hook.

 

ETA: Her thoughts on Captain Swan.

 

PS: Only on ONCE would an actor have to stress that her character is written to have a particular relationship to justify liking it.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Rumsy4

[Dianthus]

I fully support JMo's right to say "Nertz!" to all the idiots who question her on this. She has a right to her opinion, and I would say that even if I didn't happen to agree with her. I'm really glad she feels so comfortable with Colin. It really shines through in their work.

[Faemonic]

I remember watching a convention YouTube vid where a fan asked JMo about the Neal/Hook shipper wars. JMo answered that she considered it her job not to take sides because she always played the character's emotion at the moment. If she had ideas of should, then that would be stepping outside her wainscoting. I 'd wished she'd played up Emma's attraction to Hook in 4B, because otherwise he looks like a jerk for pressing it, and their finally getting together gave me whiplash more than it gave me vindication...but, maybe she couldn't be sure of the script for future episodes.

So, I can totally buy her assertion that, well, it's there on the page. (Because there's not much else on this show that we can be sure of.)

If the Dark Swan arc had at least some concrete clues based on acting choices because A&E actually told Colin and Jen what was up, I'm glad that they're finally letting actors in the know about aspects of the characters that actors should know. I understand wanting to keep a bit of mystery or not write themselves into a corner, but when even Lana has to remind her fans that she has a human right to her own interpretation (due to a soundbite that even included "fans see it another way, and I don't want to take that away from them...") something's gone very wrong with the fandom collective consciousness.

[Rumsy4]

I 'd wished she'd played up Emma's attraction to Hook in 4B, because otherwise he looks like a jerk for pressing it, and their finally getting together gave me whiplash more than it gave me vindication...but, maybe she couldn't be sure of the script for future episodes.

 

 

I'm guessing you mean 3B? I disagree, but this is ground we have tread and retread in PTV. 3B was so frustrating, because Emma had nothing to do but bitch about New York until the finale.

[Faemonic]

Whoops...yes, I meant 3B.

[KingOfHearts]

So... Emma's year in New York. It never really needed to happen, quite honestly. Emma already called Storybrooke home in 2B and 3x11. Nowadays, it doesn't affect anything. Emma and Henry don't talk to each other about what it was like. There's no "we are both" thing going on. Henry hasn't contacted his friends. We never saw them move out of the ritzy apartment. Walsh was briefly mentioned when Emma was listing dead boyfriends to Hook, but there was really no reaction to "I was dating a flying monkey for eight months".

 

Don't get me wrong - New York should have been important. It gave Emma a whole new perspective and should have drastically changed her relationship with her son. She, like Regina, got to be the primary and only mother for a period.

 

Fun Fact: If Emma had moved to New York with Hook, she would have never become a Dark One and he never would have died.

Edited February 29, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Fun Fact: If Emma had moved to New York with Hook, she would have never become a Dark One and he never would have died.

 

But wouldn't the rest of her family have died in Storybrooke?  

 

Elsa would not have been calmed down without Emma there.  I don't know what Ingrid's plan would have been if Emma had just left.  

 

Now if only Robin had just let Rumple die in NYC in "Heart of Gold".  Dark One gone forever.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Elsa would not have been calmed down without Emma there.  I don't know what Ingrid's plan would have been if Emma had just left.

 She could have moved between 4A and 4B.

 

 

But wouldn't the rest of her family have died in Storybrooke?

 

Regina would have probably become the new Dark One and killed everyone, yes. But I was only talking about Emma and Hook. :P

Edited February 29, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[mjgchick]

Technically if Neal wasn't a dumb ass no one would be the Dark One. He'd probably watch his son grow up and watch Emma and Hook be happy. Baby Charming would be called Graham you know Snow Whites actual friend who she knew or Lancelot since he married them and is the reason why they had Emma.

[KAOS Agent]

Emma hasn't slept in months, was subjected to severe psychological torture and then killed her boyfriend. She's tired. I think she needs a nap.

[Camera One]

Are they all going to rent rooms at Blind Witch Granny's?  I guess this gives "sleep like the dead" a whole new meaning.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Camera One

[daxx]

Dark hook called Emma an anchor but in the bad way. They are actually each other's anchors but in the good way. Emma is drifting because she is missing her anchor. The person that always tells her she can do it and supports her.

[Curio]

Emma hasn't slept in months, was subjected to severe psychological torture and then killed her boyfriend. She's tired. I think she needs a nap.

 

And then when she does fall asleep, she's greeted by her ex-boyfriend who tells her she shouldn't go save her True Love. Girlfriend can't win.

[YaddaYadda]

Emma won't be okay until she finds him. Of course when someone tells you that it's hard, and sucks the life, energy, and the hope out of you, I can see how she feels dragged down a bit.

[mjgchick]

That scene with her and Neal is many reasons why I could never see those two together. Its also probably why that scene didn't bother me. The difference between how Hook believes in Emma and how that idiot has no faith in her is so telling.

I really hope once Emma gets a chance to actually sleep no one disturbs the poor woman. Hook as well because I get the feeling even with his memory loss he couldn't sleep either and it had more to do with worrying about Emma.

[mjgchick]

Did anyone notice Emma's powers were white and black still?

Edited March 15, 2016 by mjgchick

[HoodlumSheep]

^ yeah. I wonder if it's going to stay that greyish color.

[InsertWordHere]

I usual enjoy Screwball Ninja's OUAT essays, but I have a real problem with "The Trouble With Emma." For one thing, I disagree with her interpretation that "Maybe I just need to punch you in the face" Emma is at odds with current "Everyone I love dies" Emma. It's not just a shipper's headcanon that Season 1 Emma needed to let down her walls and become emotionally open to love. That is actually the narrative of Season 1, from moving in with Mary Margaret to giving Henry a TLK. Mary Margaret literally says, "That wall of yours, it may keep out pain, but it also may keep out love." Season 1 Emma was never supposed to be considered a kickass woman because she had walls, but because she let go of them and was still kickass. That wasn't Emma fronting a tough exterior, that was Emma being damaged and defending herself in the only way she knew how. I have no doubt that open to love Emma would be threatening to punch Hades in the face if she thought it would do any good. 

 

I also, despite initially thinking it might be a good idea, disagree that it should have been Henry who was mortally wounded by Excalibur. For one thing, making 5B about saving Henry would be a retread of 3A. We already know Emma would do anything to save Henry. It also would not make sense for Emma to keep this a secret from everyone, especially Regina. Also, Dark One mother and son would just be icky to me, even ickier than I found Dark Captain Swan to be, although I would find Henry being manipulated by Nimue a lot easier to swallow than Hook's heel face turn into darkness. 

 

I do agree, though, that some of the people calling Emma "clingy" for going to save Hook would not see it the same way if it was a man going to the Underworld to save a woman. 

[mjgchick]

If it was Hook going to save Emma they'd still call her weak. It has nothing to do with Emma being the hero to save someone she loves (Like she's pretty much been doing since the freaking pilot even when she didn't know it I mean she is the hero of the story after all.)it still comes down to who Emma went to go save. If it were Henry/her parents/her brother people would find it boring but hey at least its not Hook. If it were Regina/Person the other side would be side eyeing the writers.

Emma isn't a clingy woman. She was willing to grieve him but since this show is a fairytale and Colin is still a regular on the show of course she'll go save him but didn't we just seen Emma was ready to let Hook go when his brother was being a lying liar who lies? Only in this fandom where a woman is saving the man she loves is considered weak. A woman who basically told Hades "Bring it." but sure she's weak because she wants to save someone she loves.

[YaddaYadda]

If Emma and Hook had shared a TLK, would anyone be questioning the "intensity" of their love? No one really questions the love between Snowing, or say Rumbelle because one had a couple of TLKs, while the other had an almost one. But Rumbelle for instance haven't been a couple for all that long. They've known each other for a while, but coupledom is sort of a new thing for them because the show moves at an excruciatingly slow pace.

 

Emma is a character that has changed so much. She has evolved so much. And being the Dark One has actually freed her to want the things she wants, like a future she didn't even think she was allowed to have because she is the Savior. 

 

We never talk about how being the Savior cost Emma so much, how it's the thing that's responsible for a lot of her heartbreaks and inner turmoils. Being the Savior cost Emma her parents. She landed somewhere on her own, left alone, grew up without love. Neal left because she was the Savior. She gave up her kid because of that. And the list goes on.

 

Her saving Hook selfishly back in 5x08 after he asked her to let him go? Yeah, not the best of moves, but he is who she loves. Turning him into the Dark One might have worked better for her and everyone if she had trusted him from the get go, been truthful with him from the get go, if they had done this thing together like they do practically everything else.

 

I won't condemn Emma for the things she did, or going to the UW to bring him back. The universe screwed her over more than enough, and then it turned around, and rendered his sacrifice useless because of what Rumple did. 

[Rumsy4]

This is the first time Emma's family and friends have rallied around her. To support her, and help her find her Happy Ending. l'm guessing this is such a novel turn of events that some people (especially fans of Regina and Rumple) are having a hard time accepting it.

[KingOfHearts]

So happy Emma is beginning to look normal again. Her face doesn't have that allergic reaction makeup any more.

[BoPeeps]

When we met Emma, she was ANGRY and hurt. A lifetime of scary crap had brought her to the where she was.

We've seen her lose a lot of the anger and hurt, but that doesn't mean she lost her courage or her strength. It takes a helluva lot of strength to face down anger. It takes amazing courage to accept the hurt.

 

She isn't losing any strength by loving Killian. She isn't losing her bad assness because she loves a man. She is losing her anger and fighting to keep what she has finally allowed to heal her heart. Tain't an easy task.

 

Her journey through ONCE life with Killian has given them both solid courage and resolve to allow themselves to love each other, deeply and fiercely. They are learning to love themselves, as well, through each others devotion. Each one of them is going to change and adjust to that challenge. A TLK is actually so unnecessary and anti-climactic because they have already proven their true love for each other in more meaningful ways.

 

There IS no *Trouble with Emma*

[YaddaYadda]

Emma for some reason is always judged more harshly for her actions. 

 

Having courage to face down the monster of the week (or arc) is one thing, but having the courage to open her heart the way she has after everything she's been through, now that's tremendous.

[Shanna Marie]

I think Emma's yet another victim of a weirdly toxic sort of fandom feminism that comes back around to being misogyny. The "strong female character" tends to be defined as essentially being a man in drag, with any traits or interests that are stereotypically female being considered "weak" and traits and interests that are stereotypically male being considered "strong." So, a "strong female character" is someone who punches people a lot, is interested in sex but not in love, doesn't want romance, marriage or kids, never needs to be rescued, and doesn't care about looking attractive. A woman who falls in love, therefore, can't be "strong."

 

So, they see season one Emma, who punches people, chainsaws the apple tree, and doesn't want relationships as strong, while the Emma who has grown emotionally to the point that she's willing to trust other people and let them in is "weak." But it really takes a lot more courage to let the walls down, take a risk to love someone with no guarantee of how it will work out, to risk loss and all the pain that comes with it. Season one Emma may have looked, acted, and talked tough, but there was a part of her that was a lot more cowardly than she is now because she was afraid to love. She didn't want to be a mom or a daughter. After everything she's been through, she was incredibly brave to let herself fall in love with a guy who, let's face it, was kind of a risky prospect. She's been both rewarded and punished for that. I'm not sure she'd have made it through the Dark One stuff without him to lean on (at first) and focus on (later). And I really can't see how it's weak that she's willing to rush to the rescue to save him. There have been tons of stories about men doing that sort of thing, and they're seen to be brave for rushing off to save their loves rather than weak for loving that much. Why is it different if it's a woman who loves a man enough to go into the Underworld to save him?

[Curio]

Why is it different if it's a woman who loves a man enough to go into the Underworld to save him?

 

It's because a small part of the fandom who want Emma to be paired with someone else romantically view her as weak for not preferring the person they want her with in the end. They don't care about analyzing Emma, they care about their ship.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Curio