S03.E05: The Deal

[ganesh]

I don't think anyone thinks this is the last of Bob. 

[editorgrrl]

Any speculations on what Norma plans to do next? Kill Caleb? Run into the therapist's arms? Drive around and eventually realize she achieved a victory over the town's elite and powerful and she shouldn't waste it?

Norma runs into the arms of James Finnegan. Caleb moves in with Dylan and Norman. Romero and Norma are endgame.

Edited April 9, 2015 by editorgrrl

[Solzhenknitsyn]

Loved this episode. For all the little bits of humor, e.g.:

 

Romero: You want to keep it [the flash drive]? Have you lost your mind?

Norma: Possibly. It's irrelevant.

 

For the little details, like the jar of (what appears to be) Pond's cold cream on Norma's vanity. It's just so retro, like the 1950s-esque dresses that fill her closet.

 

For the small moments, like when Norma shows up on Romero's doorstep. There's an awkward couple of seconds where he appears to be thinking, "Has she turned up for sex? Because...I'd totally be down for that."

[Solzhenknitsyn]

Norma runs into the arms of James Finnegan. Caleb moves in with Dylan and Norman. Romero and Norma are endgame.

 

Norma running into James Finnegan's arms makes a lot of sense, character-wise and plot-wise. She seems to be drawn to men who are too self-centered or myopic to notice that she's dealing with some pretty serious shit. Finnegan is presenting himself as someone who "gets" her and her struggles, but as others have noted, his willingness to play fast and loose with therapeutic boundaries suggests that he's a bit of a self-serving dick.

 

It would be an interesting plot driver if Finnegan ended up as Darth Vader Boyfriend, M.F.T., encouraging her to make poor choices so that she remained dependent on him for emotional support.

 

I agree with those who like Norman the supportive brother, but I can't see him going as far as to let Caleb move in! But I dunno...it could bring matters to a head between Norma and Caleb.

 

I don't think Romero and Norma will get together until the very last couple of episodes that Norma is alive. A, the "will they or won't they" is too much fun for the viewers. B, I think they are both leery of each other. Romero is leery of Norma because she makes poor choices and constantly gets herself into scrapes. Norma is leery of Romero because he can read her like a book and isn't scared off by her *ahem* emotionalism. I think that Norma likes feeling safe, but she also needs to feel that she's a couple of steps ahead of any man she's with. That's not going to happen with Sheriff White Hat/Black Hat, yo.

[editorgrrl]

By "endgame," I meant Romero and Norma hook up—then Norman kills them.

[rue721]

Wondering too. Just the gun? Kill Caleb. Gun, bag ,clothes, meds? No idea.

 

I hope she goes to Romero.

 

Last time she was upset because she and Norman were having a fight, she went to George. So maybe she'll go to "her man" this time, too?

[queenanne]

I don't think Romero and Norma will get together until the very last couple of episodes that Norma is alive. A, the "will they or won't they" is too much fun for the viewers. B, I think they are both leery of each other. Romero is leery of Norma because she makes poor choices and constantly gets herself into scrapes. Norma is leery of Romero because he can read her like a book and isn't scared off by her *ahem* emotionalism. I think that Norma likes feeling safe, but she also needs to feel that she's a couple of steps ahead of any man she's with. That's not going to happen with Sheriff White Hat/Black Hat, yo.

 

This week he literally held her off at his place by grasping her by the upper arm, which I thought was pretty clever.

[Ailianna]

And, I actually think Norman might have accidentally made it worse. He might have been better off just staying away.

I was almost not sure it was an accident. That was really about the worst thing he could have said, pointing out not only that Dylan does have a legitimate interest in finding out about Caleb and even getting to know him while at the same time reminding Norma of exactly how Caleb came to be Dylan's father. And sounding innocent and supportive at the same time. I'm not sure it was sabotage, but I'm not sure some part of Norman didn't want to ruin it despite his better impulses.

[maczero]

How do we know she's victorious over Bob? It seems that he caved in rather quickly.

True but Norma thinks she has him over a barrel.  I can't imagine she would just give up after her perceived win.

 

I was almost not sure it was an accident. That was really about the worst thing he could have said, pointing out not only that Dylan does have a legitimate interest in finding out about Caleb and even getting to know him while at the same time reminding Norma of exactly how Caleb came to be Dylan's father. And sounding innocent and supportive at the same time. I'm not sure it was sabotage, but I'm not sure some part of Norman didn't want to ruin it despite his better impulses.

I like this idea.  Norman's rage blackouts or killings as "mother" never quite worked for me.  He's not that intimidating physically (most serial killers aren't) so his rage mode usually isn't that effective against grown men.  However, I do like the idea that his serial killer side will start to rely on being crafty rather than brute force.

 

I'm still against Romero and Norma hooking up.  His annoyance with Norma's antics is something that I think will be lost if they become a couple.

[rue721]

I was almost not sure it was an accident. That was really about the worst thing he could have said, pointing out not only that Dylan does have a legitimate interest in finding out about Caleb and even getting to know him while at the same time reminding Norma of exactly how Caleb came to be Dylan's father. And sounding innocent and supportive at the same time. I'm not sure it was sabotage, but I'm not sure some part of Norman didn't want to ruin it despite his better impulses.

 

Norma excused Dylan defending Caleb to Norman before by saying that Dylan can't help it because Caleb's his father -- that's how she revealed that Caleb *was* Dylan's father. So I think that Norman was just trying to excuse Dylan to Norma in the same way that Norma had excused Dylan to Norman.

[Avaleigh]

By "endgame," I meant Romero and Norma hook up—then Norman kills them.

I agree with you editorgrrl. (Sorry, I'm out of likes at the moment!) So far I think that Romero is the best bet at the guy who will end up dying with Norma. 

 

I think Caleb will die this season and the new guy is either a red herring or he's going to be tied into this plot with the Arcanum Club. 

 

Norma excused Dylan defending Caleb to Norman before by saying that Dylan can't help it because Caleb's his father -- that's how she revealed that Caleb *was* Dylan's father. So I think that Norman was just trying to excuse Dylan to Norma in the same way that Norma had excused Dylan to Norman.

This is the impression that I got as well. I think Norman thought that Norma would understand it better if they presented it to her the way she ended up explaining it to both of them. 

 

Norma's inability to reply at all was truly frightening. Not only did it feel like she was in a blackout rage but I also felt like she felt like her life as she knows it is over in a way. Like things will never be the same again for her or with the way she feels about her boys. She's back to feeling completely alone and it's totally devastating. There's no one she feels that she can completely trust. Very sad.

 

For the small moments, like when Norma shows up on Romero's doorstep. There's an awkward couple of seconds where he appears to be thinking, "Has she turned up for sex? Because...I'd totally be down for that."

I got that vibe too. A little hesitation was there too but yeah, he'd have been DTF.

[Sakura12]

Downloading movies is not a high level hacker ability. Gunner being able to encrypt a file makes no sense. Unless tv writers think that it's really hard to download movies.

 

I loved seeing the Brotherly love. They are messed up family but they do love each other in their very strange ways. Even Emma sticks around for the crazy. 

 

Norma, Norma, did you really think a man such as Bob is content to let you have everything while getting nothing in return. You just made yourself even more of an enemy. You might get lucky and Norman will kill him for you. 

Edited April 9, 2015 by Sakura12

[turbogirlnyc]

Does anyone else think that this psych professor is somehow involved with the Arcanum Club or Bob or something to do with that part of the story?

For me it's the way he seems to always show up randomly. He catches her in the library or whatever when she's looking up something about computers--to me it seemed like he was trying to feel out what it was that she was really looking for. He tells her that she's all mysterious and everything and I'm thinking that applies to him as well. He just happens to see her in this ep while she's walking down the street? To me it was almost like he'd been following her and was looking for an opportunity. He also seems suspicious in general. If he's only teaching part time at a community college how is he paying all of his bills? I just get the vibe that there's more to this guy than meets the eye.

It's possible he's involved but I never got that vibe. I really don't like him for Norma but he seems like a convenient man for her to get involved with. Hence the random meetings. But I really don't know.

I totally agree that this show is more interesting than Mad Men right now. GOT hasn't started yet. I've been a long time Song of Ice & Fire reader/fan. Like way before the show. I know what to expect from GOT. Not so much with Bates Motel.

This show deserves more credit and a larger fan base, in my humble opinion. It's a shame it doesn't get more love here and in the media.

Has anyone noticed that Norma kind if hyperventilates when she gets upset? Nothing wrong with that. I love Vera.

Edited April 9, 2015 by turbogirlnyc

[BatmanBeatles]

 

It's possible he's involved but I never got that vibe. I really don't like him for Norma but he seems like a convenient man for her to get involved with. Hence the random meetings. But I really don't know.

I have a feeling she'll mess up whatever potential relationship with him like that guy last season.

[turbogirlnyc]

I have a feeling she'll mess up whatever potential relationship with him like that guy last season.

I don't see her being attracted to him. Plenty of friendship potential there but zero chemistry. It could still happen but I hope Norma doesn't go there.

[DittyDotDot]

Bwah, ha, ha!

 

"The wi-fi password is "MOTHER" in all caps!"

 

"And I want a pool...with a fence to make sure it's safe, of course."

 

Bob is a delight with his hugs and jerky! Hey, Norman and Bob should get together and start a jerky/taxidermy business on the side! ;)

 

This show does so much with the absurd, I totally dig it!

Edited April 11, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[DittyDotDot]

How do we know she's victorious over Bob? It seems that he caved in rather quickly.

 

Oh, I'm sure Bob was just dicking with Norma...there's no way that was well played, IMO.

 

Does anyone else think that this psych professor is somehow involved with the Arcanum Club or Bob or something to do with that part of the story?

 

I don't know that he's related to the Arcanum Club, but he's definitely shady, IMO. His over sharing and all just creeps me out. But Norma being interested in creep-a-zoids is nothing new. Makes me wonder about Norman's father and all...

[DittyDotDot]

I don't care about Caleb and as the poster above noted, I hope the writers aren't trying to make me care about him. I get that him around creates conflict so I can accept that but I sure didn't care about his "pain" while he was hacking the tree and was barely paying attention to his conversation with that guy, whatever his name is. All I got is that the guy offered him a job as his pot driver but I can't tell if that would mean Caleb would leave because it's something he would have to drive all over doing or if it was a job strictly based in the town. I of course hope it's the former. 

 

I'm not sure the writer's are trying to make you feel sorry for him and/or forgive him, but are presenting a full-fledged character. I think they're showing us that even though Caleb did this very bad thing which could never be forgotten or forgiven, he may not be what we think "monsters" are. I think it keeps true to the fact they're also showing us how a serial killer can also be a damaged young boy. So, I'm not seeing it as whitewash myself.

[truthaboutluv]

I never said it was a white-wash and I get what they are going for. I am simply saying that despite all that, I personally do not care about the character. Yes we're watching a show about how a teenage boy ultimately grows up to be a psychotic serial killer but I knew that coming into this show. I mean, I read that a show is based on a prequel of sorts of Psycho, I kind of know what I'm going to get.

 

But even knowing who Norman ultimately becomes, I still care about the character and his story and his journey, same with Norma, same with Dylan, Emma, even Romero. I just don't care about Caleb and never have. I find him annoying, manipulative, his sad sack bullshit irritates me and I just have no interest or feeling for him beyond "when are you leaving?" I get that his existence adds to Norma and Dylan's story but I feel like that can be accomplished without his actual presence. 

 

Hell I'll even take learning about Anika and she just showed up this season but I'd like to know why she was digging around something that dangerous that she had to know would have gotten her killed, if she really was a hooker or was that a cover, why she felt compelled to give the information to Norma and tell her to use it for herself and Norman and hell, what really did happen the night Norman drove to town with her. 

Edited April 11, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[rue721]

I dislike Caleb, and think it's terrible (but imo believable) that Dylan is creating this fantasy in his head of Caleb being a real father to him and of Caleb and Norma reuniting. It seems clear to me that Caleb only regrets that Norma is unhappy with him (to put it lightly!), and that he doesn't feel horrible *for* her or what he did to her, he feels horrible *for himself.* It seems to me that he'd do just the same thing again, especially if he didn't think he'd get into trouble for it.

 

But I'm happy that Caleb's around. Even though I dislike him so much as an individual, I like how he affects Dylan's and Norma's storylines. Dylan wants a real family *so* badly that he's sort of fucking up his own chances to have one! If he didn't want it so badly, he wouldn't be entertaining having a relationship with Caleb now, and things would be better between him and Norma.

 

On the other hand, I think that Norma is exhausted and confused when it comes to dealing with Norman at this point, and she's trying to get Dylan to protect/help her by taking on those responsibilities for her. She literally told Norman in this past episode (as she left home) that his brother would take care of him now. I don't think she's *consciously* trying to use Dylan (again), but I think that she's using him regardless. And he's not actually equipped to deal with Norman, at least not any more than Norma is. So it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if Dylan were forced out of the family again and ended up not taking on those responsibilities or not trying to save Norma. I doubt that will happen, because I don't think that Dylan would be able to bear losing his family (and especially Norma) again, so he won't abandon her or be separated from her again willingly, and Norma will probably (unwittingly) prey on that weakness in him (and Caleb is likely to VERY wittingly prey on it, too, imo) and maneuver him into doing what's best for her, even if it's not what's best for him.

 

Well anyway. I don't find Caleb and Norma's history all that interesting, because it seems pretty clear and fleshed-out already. I'm interested in their relationship now, though. And in Norma's feelings toward their history/her history generally.

 

What I find much more mysterious/interesting in terms of piecing together what actually happened is what went on during the first decade or so of Norma leaving home -- her marriage to Massett, and then the early days of her marriage to Bates. I'm more curious about Norma's young adulthood than in her childhood, I guess. Maybe because she would at least have had some autonomy as an adult, and it's only when someone has at least *some* autonomy and can at least somewhat make their own decisions that their actions reveal anything about their character/personality imo.

[Mick Lady]

First,,Timetoread,thanks for your post. I'm the opposite of you, but I like to hear others take on a character, and applaud you for your honesty!

Count me in on the side of those thinking Ted, (Bob damn it, BOB) isn't done with Norma yet. That went waaaay to easy and I'm surprised Romero let her pull that scam.

 

But I agree with Garnett7, Romero is fascinated by Norma.

 

But really... a fence? To be safe? Pure gold!

[peacheslatour]

Just re-watched this ep.  When Norma was leaving at the end, Dylan and Norman were at the top of the stairs in the house and when Norman was struggling to to get loose of Dylan he was flailing away exactly like Anthony Perkins did in the movie when he was trying to attack Vera Miles in the basement when Sam (can't remember the actor's name) had a hold of him.  Nice.

[OhioMom]

Can someone please remind me who "Clay" is?  Romero found him dead in the beginning of this episode, and for the life of me, I can't remember who he was, or his significance to the whole storyline. 

 

Thanks!!

[Bec]

Some fisherman at the lake mentioned he saw this Clay guy at the lake claiming to be "birdwatching" a short time before the body was found, and Romero immediately recognized the name.

 

Romero accused Bob of hiring Clay to cover up the murder of the woman we saw floating face down in the water. And then of course Clay turns up dead.